Wrote Jonathan Neman wrote, the Sweetgreen CEO, quoted in "Sweetgreen CEO criticized after connecting the pandemic to unhealthy eating: ‘Incredibly fat-phobic'" (MSN).
Obviously, he deserves extra scrutiny for promoting a government policy that would benefit his business. He sells salad.
But does the criticism "fat-shaming" fit? Another way to put that is: Does broad use of the term "fat-shaming" dilute its effectiveness? I'm going to say yes. Here's my point.
The narrow use of "fat-shaming" works very well to restrain people who, without social pressure, would express the opinion that people who are overweight look bad or have negative personality traits. It's good to whip out the easy 3-syllables — fat-shaming! — to push back louts who are insulting fat people. They are ugly and stupid, those louts.
But if the term "fat-shaming" gets bigger and bigger — out of control — it's going to lose its effectiveness. If it's used to intimidate anyone who wants to talk about obesity and health — chilling speech on an immensely important matter of personal and public concern — then those who are using the term may seem like truth-averse bullies.
And yet, there's little use of "fat-shaming" to intimidate those who want to talk about obesity and Covid. The intimidation was so easy it happened with almost no discussion. All you need is the occasional "fat-shaming!" hurled at somebody like that Sweetgreen CEO, and you've squelched that whole branch of the conversation. Now, let's get back to talking about how people who don't get vaccines and wear masks are stupid and evil.
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111 comments:
So fat shaming can now join racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, and sexual assault as terms that are so expansively overused that they convey nothing beyond disapproval?
I've been saying since the very beginning, like March 2020, that the best response to this pandemic is to focus on improving one's general health, which you'd think would be obvious given the number of times we've heard "public health" in the past 18 months.
That Fauci and his disciples have been almost completely silent on this topic is the best evidence that the mass hysteria is not really about covid.
it seems that USA should have better health care than other places
yet
it seems that More people (per capita) have died in USA from covid than other places
it seems that More people (per capita) in USA are fat and pudgy (like ME)
coincidence?
We clearly have no problem with government overreach on how we live our lives all in the name of 'health.’
Who’s “we”?
What percent of the population is obese and overweight?
In particular, what percent of the elderly population?
Three syllables: Ya Mi Che
Fat shaming works about as well as poverty, slut, mask and vaccine shaming. However, everything about America would change for the better if we returned to the BMI levels of the 1950's.
You are no longer allowed to talk about obesity. If you do you are fat shaming. People are allowed to eat all the crap they can, lead sedentary lives and balloon up to hundreds if not thousands of pounds. Of course they are healthy and beautiful and if you think otherwise you are fat shaming. It's not their fault they are obese, just ask them. Body positivity and all. Oh, also my body my choice (unless it's the vax).
Ann came here to talk about the three syllables and the man came here to shame a greedy salad barron for his capitalism and being a big meanie…what I noticed is SEVENTY EIGHT PERCENT- a robust number that’s mostly ignored.
One more data point that makes me think they’re only in this covid thing for the feel goods of shaming others.
About 43% of the population over the age of 60 is obese.
Just relate fat to climate change!
What if we included in the Vaccine Passport a BMI clause that would.limit the number of times per week a fat person could enter a restaurant. We know people consume more calories when dining out versus at home.
If it saves one life....
Does broad use of the term "fat-shaming" dilute its effectiveness?
I appreciate the choice of word that modified use.
The narrow use of "fat-shaming" works very well to restrain people who, without social pressure, would express the opinion that people who are overweight look bad or have negative personality traits. It's good to whip out the easy 3-syllables — fat-shaming! — to push back louts who are insulting fat people.
How dare they point out the truth! Massively overweight people do look bad, and often do have negative personality traits. It's madness that we can't point out a basic fact of life which is that our physical appearance is important, and that it often reflects underlying mental and physical issues. No, we have to pretend that the 300 pound man with depression who spends all day in front of a computer is healthy, or that the morbidly obese twenty-five year old woman is somehow beautiful and men who don't want to date her are somehow bigots.
"those who are using the term may seem like truth-averse bullies"
May seem like? They are.
Obesity is a prime "risk factor" for lots of things. It's bad for individuals, it's bad for society, it's bad. See? Some of us are pretty immune to fat-shaming-shaming.
was Fat Albert considered OBESE? or just chubby
The hysteria over fat-shaming is part of a larger attack against aesthetics. We can't have beautiful things, but have to embrace ugliness in our bodies (obesity, tattoos), our architecture, our music, our entertainment, etc.
There's a reason why the woke left who push "fat-shaming" as an idea are also eager to tear down statues. What we find beautiful reflects what we value, and beautiful things help to reinforce those values through society and into the next generation. If you want a revolution to succeed, you have to attack the cultural supports for the old order.
Howard, do you know what kept BMI levels in the 1950s low? Smoking. More than 40% of American adults smoked in the 1950s. Bring back cigarettes! Make smoking cool again! I’d rather contend with clouds of smoke than have my eyeballs constantly assaulted by “body positive” fatties.
Obesity seems too important a problem to be knocked out of public discourse. Not only does it matter for health outcomes, it is determinative for many. It also has to be an "elephant in the room" for the Extinction Rebellion and Greta types because of the increased carbon footprint of all those calories, jet fuel, big cars, etc. On the other hand, it is more prevalent among certain genders and ethnic groups, so must not be judged whatsoever. We just don't mention it in certain classes, and many in those certain classes have made an avocation or vocation out of shaming people for newly invented transgressions. So its a science/data thing vs. feelings/anything goes/that's racist thing. Actual science/data is losing the battle everywhere else.
I lurk in the nurses sub at reddit and apparently it's not uncommon to have a ward full of 300 lb covid patients.
So it takes all hands on deck to turn them, that is if they're not proned. Then you just have to turn their necks once in awhile and "swim" their arms, until the poor bastards croak.
You learn so much.
i always do what the government tells me to do
in 1980 they told us that 'obsessive dieting leads anorexia'... So i stopped dieting
in 1990 they told me to follow the 'food pyramid'... so i eliminated oils and ate mostly carbs
in 2000 they told me to 'love my body' ... so i quit worrying about being morbidly obese
in 2020 they told me to STAY AT HOME... so i quit going to the gym
in 2021 they told me to get vaccinated... so i got vaccinated
NOW they say IT'S ALL MY fault... i guess they're right; i fucked up, i trusted them
According to: https://theconversation.com/severe-covid-in-young-people-can-mostly-be-explained-by-obesity-new-study-159072
"We found that the lowest risk was found among those with a BMI of 23, at which point the risk increased linearly, around 5% higher risk of hospital admission, 10% higher risk of ICU admission, and 4% of death per each unit increase in BMI."
So at my height (5'11") if I had a BMI of 31 (222 lbs) and I wanted to drop it to 23 (165 lbs), I'd have to lose 57 lbs. I know from when I was on a keto diet, I could lose about 2.2 (just about a kilo) every week. Therefore, I could drop 7 units of BMI in 26 weeks, dropping about 28% of my death risk and 70% of my ICU risk (I guess, the math is a bit ambiguous here because I'm going backwards) in half a year. I'm pretty confident this is much more effective than masks in terms of outcome and really is comparable to a lot of vaccines. If people had been encouraged by the experts, they could have done it by Fall of last year instead of doing what most did and nibble their way to higher, riskier levels of weight.
If you're fat-shamed all your life you develop a healthy disregard for conventional opinion and make a better voter.
From the CDC:
Obesity and Overweight
Adults
Percent of adults aged 20 and over with obesity: 42.5% (2017-2018)
Percent of adults aged 20 and over with overweight, including obesity: 73.6% (2017-2018)
I suspect after last year, the percentage is higher. But even at these rates, the percentage of overweight and obese people being hospitalized seems to be within the margin of error for the general population. This seems to be correlation not causation.
Why isn't losing weight easy? It's such a simple idea. It's obvious how to do it and why it should be done. Yet it's an immense topic for wondering and worrying about, and people try and try to do it and most of the success turns into a failure worse than if they hadn't even tried in the first place. It's the most perplexing thing!
The CDC says the percentage of obese and overweight adults is 73% of the US population. So 78% of hospitalized for COVID out of a general population of 73% is not that big an effect, is it? If the numbers are accurate, being overweight increases your chances, but not by nearly as much as things that are much easier to control (e.g vaccination).
Science is fat phobic.
Even though the guy sells salad I'm glad someone finally said something about the huge numbers of obese/overweight people dying and having much more difficulty with covid. Absent this whole time during the covidian era has been a conversation about general health - take a multi vitamin every day, and some extra vitamin D if you want and get some exercise and fresh air. Stop doing drugs and drinking so much alcohol. All very simple and virtually free things that would improve the lot of so many people.
I guess the public health people see themselves as having two mandates, and I hadn't realized before how likely they are to conflict. One is: tell the truth about what we know. The other is: speak with the authority of governments, including the application of penalties, so that when you are confident a certain "social" measure is desirable, you can enforce it effectively, and people will be compliant.
We don't know whether masks and lockdowns work. If you focus on the first few months of 2020, it seems plausible that they work, but this has become less plausible ever since. U.S. states that are side by side, with contradictory mask and lockdown policies, have very similar Covid serious case and death numbers. Michigian, supposedly a hero to the Establishment, has more Covid death per capita than Florida, which has an older population and a relaxed attitude to masks and lockdowns. Japan was supposed to be a model of masks, lockdown, low numbers, but daily new cases have hit all-time highs there since the beginning of July, and daily deaths are also spiking, although not to the heights of two earlier peaks.
So without admitting we were wrong about masks and lockdown, we moved on to vaccines. Miracle, back to normal, etc. Israel is perhaps the most vaccinated country on earth. Daily new cases are as high as they have ever been, and deaths are spiking as well. The government, in what might be called a panic, is calling for a third dose. Delhi, a big Third World city with some "Westernization," has very low Covid numbers.
So: we never wanted to admit that people aged 80+ with conditions including obesity and diabetes were at much greater risk than anyone else. People aged 60+ probably at greater risk than a normal flu (which almost always hits seniors harder), people under 30 at much less risk than a normal flu. Why did rich Western countries have a huge Covid outbreak in 2020, pretty much regardless of mask and lockdown policies? Probably because they keep sick and fat old people alive more than any society has ever done before. Why are more and more countries having outbreaks in 2021, despite all the best efforts of so many? Quite possibly the virus is going to do what it does.
It looks like even if the vaccines are associated with new outbreaks, they lower the rate of deaths and serious illness. This would mean, contrary to Berenson, that they do far more good than harm. There may be some deaths from the vaccines among young people who were always very unlikely to get sick from Covid. There is good evidence that the vaccines provide less immunity, and/or for a shorter time, than natural immunity from getting sick and recovering. People should be tested for antibodies, a sign of immunity, rather than for having vaccines of questionable effectiveness.
For all anyone knows, there might be a cheap treatment out there that will actually work. Berenson has said there is at least a mechanism to explain how HCQ might work, but there is no such mechanism for ivermectin. What is strange is that the Establishment is mounting relentless propaganda against ivermectin, as if it is only for horses, only for topical or "external" use, etc. It is actually a wonder drug that has saved millions of human lives--yes, in pill form. Is the Establishment hiding something, partly because Big Pharma, which is making an untold fortune from Covid, is part of the Establishment?
People are pissed off. Canada's Prime Minister triggered an election far sooner than he needed to, obviously thinking he would cruise to a majority. Demonstrators are spoiling his events. Most governments and politicians have contributed to keeping us afraid for 18 months. Yet they are caught acting as though they can do whatever they like. Is there a sense that we've been lied to by people in lab coats and obedient politicians? is there some justification for that feeling?
Just to throw my anecdote into the ring. I have a family member hospitalized with COVID. Shewas even on a ventilator for awhile. Her husband also had it and went to the hospital at the same time she did. He received oxygen and was discharged in a day. She obviously did not have it that easy. Weight and activity level is probably the biggest difference between them.
I feel like if we acknowledged this virus was manipulated in a lab, these conversations might be easier to have. But when our media wants to pretend everything is on the up and up, it's harder to delve into uncomfortable topics like, "why do some people get COVID and have a cold and some die?"
Over seventy-eight percent of hospitalizations due to rape are women. Is there an underlying problem that perhaps we have not given enough attention to?
What if we taxed clothing and beauty products to pay for the impact of these crimes?
This is victim blaming, pure and simple. The people hit hardest by the disease are to blame for the cost to society? Not the people who fucked up and let this virus loose on the world? Not the people conducting dangerous research with inadequate safeguards? Or those who funded it and out-sourced it? Are you serious?
Should we blame gay men for the impact of the AIDS epidemic?
Give me a break.
I feel like leaning into the origins of the virus could also help vax skeptical people to go ahead and get the shot. "Look, this virus is not entirely natural and the vaccine is a good option to mitigate it's negative effects."
People who are overweight have worse health. The science is settled. Those who are in the same insurance pool share that cost.
If somebody yells at me "Wear a mask, granny killer!" I might be inclined to reply "Eat a salad, Fatso!".
The food pyramid that the government foisted on multiple generations plays a part. I also wouldn't be surprised if there are environmental factors as well as the increased use of medications. All those things make it more difficult to lose weight.
It should also be noted that people in the past weighed less, but they weren't necessarily healthier. Many people were underweight, which has its own problems, and those who weren't often relied on clothing to hide their paunch and guts and generally shape the body into the ideal. We see that less today, as instead fashion has trended towards spandex and t-shirts and shorts and other clothes which don't conceal or adjust one's figure.
It's difficult enough to give up smoking or drinking, but those things aren't necessary for life. Abstinence is easier than moderation. But you gotta eat.
Maintaining a healthy weight is easy for us ectomorphs, especially those of us who as kids ate everything in sight and were still skinny shamed. It's those few lines of code in the genetic imperative that forced our ancestors out into the wild to hunt and gather, to pack on the calories for the 'lean' times. Now obtaining calories is easy and it's a big problem...
Find me the statistics on the percentage of people who favor forced covid vaccinations, but would be appalled when I show up at their door at 8am, slap the bowl of Frosted Flakes out of their hands and announce “its time for a brisk 4 mile walk”
I think the younger you are when you get fat, the harder it is to control later on. You create all these extra fat cells that blow up like balloons and the weight fluctuations get wider and wider.
And your pancreas goes to hell trying to regulate blood sugar.
I admire the quiet dignity of old people who somehow stayed the same weight their entire lives. Lots of them in Montana still but they're dying off.
Their grandkids are not doing so well though. I really do think there is a weight/decadence connection.
My wife researched why losing weight is so hard. One of the things that happens is when you reduce your calorie intake, your body reduces its calorie burning rate because it thinks it's being starved. The body has a set point that it wants to maintain and getting it to change it is hard.
This is obviously not fat shaming its facts and science. Obesity is a huge negative health indicator and it appears to be the primary thing that increases negative COVID health outcomes. If wokeness or political correctness is going to be used to stop people from talking about this reality then the label Orwellian is no longer hyperbolic.
Ann asked "Why isn't losing weight easy?" Losing weight is easy. Getting motivated to do the necessary things is the hard part. I've lost 60 lbs since October 2020. Losing the weight was pretty easy. Just made some changes to diet. I should have done it sooner but wasn't motivated to do so. Then I had my blood pressure checked and my doctor gave me a choice. Take a pill every day for the rest of my life or lose weight. I lost weight.
The point of this is that we need to talk more about the dangers of being overweight. A little "fat shaming" would do us all some good. People need to be motivated to lose weight.
Mike hit the nail on the head. What percentage of US adults, especially those over 50, are classified as overweight or obese? There are so many confounding factors that the number cited is pretty much meaningless. I suspect that if someone who actually understood statistics looked at the numbers closely, that only the morbidly obese have any significant correlation.....and that still does not establish causation.
Next time I hear some idiot mention White Rage or Privilege my response will be to point an accusing finger at the offending oaf and screech, “SKIN SHAMING IS WRONG!” and if we all teach our children to do this then we can disrupt the very racist antiracism curriculum. Be like our president: Joe knows no shame!
Looked it up. Looks like 74% of US adults over 20 are either overweight or obese. You need a hell of a lot better data to draw any conclusions at all. So far, he does not even have correlation.
Why isn't losing weight easy?
I've been trying to lose weight, and am down to within 8 pounds of where I was in High School, although the distribution is different. I've cut things from my diet, mostly chocolate and after-dinner snacks. Is it easy? Well, missing foods I like isn't easy, but actual weight loss isn't hard if you alter your diet. Will I keep the weight off? Probably. I don't think I'll start eating after dinner again. Why do that?
"What if we made the food that is making us sick illegal? What if we taxed processed food and refined sugar to pay for the impact of the pandemic? What if we incentivized health?"
When did it suddenly become normal for people to look to Chairman Mao as their model for responsible governance? "WE" are going to OUTLAW entire categories of foods because a lot of people are too fat? Fuck you. To all wannabe dictators: Worry about yourself and your own fat face. Stop pretending you have knowledge and moral standing to reshape society according to your superior insights.
"It's the most perplexing thing!"
I know what you mean, but it also isn't. What if many people are lazy slobs who can't be bothered but count on access to other people's money to cover the cost of their choices? What if many people are not smart enough to plan ahead and manage their health, like they can't manage the rest of their lives? What if many people would rather be fat than fit?
I remember reading an article in the NYT (!) long ago (!) about diabetics, I believe, not taking their medicine, even at the risk of getting a leg amputated. What are few fat rolls compared to that?
I have worked with over 500 morbidly obese patients seeking bariatric surgery.
There is no need to fat shame them. They feel an incredible amount of shame. Most understand that it is there own fault because they are as addicted to eating as a drunk is to alcohol. Eating is their coping mechanism.
Losing weight is hard because you're fighting evolution. He's a tough hombre.
But if the term "fat-shaming" gets bigger and bigger — out of control — it's going to lose its effectiveness.
You're fat-shaming fat-shaming!
But you knew that.
I think it isn't easy in part because of the foods we were all raised on and because we don't move around enough. We drive places rather than walk or bike typically. Most everything in the grocery store is going to pack in the calories with the smallest of bites. And most importantly food is cheap for Americans.
Losing weight is hard (for many, anyway) because you can't go cold turkey - you can't eschew the problematic substance altogether. Instead you have to learn and practice moderation - something our species hasn't really evolved to do.
We evolved to take advantage of temporary surplus by consuming it, to help us live through the much more common periods of scarcity. Overcoming evolution is no easy thing.
I think St. Paul lamented that, even knowing what he ought to do, he didn't do as he ought. And he was a saint.
"If it's used to intimidate anyone who wants to talk about obesity and health — chilling speech on an immensely important matter of personal and public concern — then those who are using the term may seem like truth-averse bullies."
The "fat positive" movement that promotes morbidly obese people as clothing models already uses the "fat shaming" accusation against people who point out the negative health consequences in regards to being overweight. They even use the phrase "healthy at any size".
I don't support banning or taxing food and drink to help obese people consume less. That tactic is similar to the left's desire to take guns away from law-abiding citizens because they think criminals will also comply. People with a healthy BMI should not be punished for others' lack of self-control.
There's so much about the virus, it's variations, the vaccines, and mask use that is constantly changing. Either the message gets changed to fit the new narrative or new actual facts appear. And it has been this way since December of 2019. But there have been a handful of constants that we know. Things that seem to be indicators of who will be more severely ill, or die, from this virus.
Number 1 has always been obesity. That has never changed. Others are diabetes, cardiovascular disease, lung disease. Senior aged people. What all of these things have in common (except for age) is inflammation within your body. And when you are obese, chances are you may have one of these other comorbidities along with your weight.
Obesity has been, and remains the #1 target. What has failed is our government, our media, our You Tube/Google/Twitter/Facebook/Instragram execs pounding this message out, instead of working hard to censor someone doubting the efficacy of a new type of vaccine, or questioning how a 10 micron opening in a paper mask will stop a virus that is 0.004 microns.
As for people stopping because of the term 'fat-shaming', I'm not sure what percentage of the population gives a hoot about such idiotic terminology. We have so much of this, so many words or phrases that are supposedly not approved. But while there are many who live under that theocracy, the majority of Americans do not and it's time to just look past it and call a thing what it is. A is A, right? You can call it something else, but it is what it is. ("a rose by any other name...")
One last question that I've had. With all the goings on in Afghanistan, I've been wondering why we never heard about the tragedy of Covid deaths in Afghanistan? Did I miss it? I never once heard anything about Covid in that region. These are people who live close to each other. Are they vaccinated? I doubt it. Masks? Hijabs have larger thread openings than our stupid paper masks. So why did we not hear about spreader events when the people were gathered by the thousands trying to save their lives, or at any time beforehand. Is the virus afraid of Afghanistan, too? Or is it that there are few obese Afghanis?
“Why isn't losing weight easy? It's such a simple idea. It's obvious how to do it and why it should be done. Yet it's an immense topic for wondering and worrying about, and people try and try to do it and most of the success turns into a failure worse than if they hadn't even tried in the first place. It's the most perplexing thing!”
I am reminded a bit of a good friend of mine. The chair of the Bio department called me up to help one day. This friend had the high test grade in her class, but she was going to have to flunk him, if he didn’t get his paper in. He didn’t, and she did. He couldn’t force himself to write a paper, even if it meant flunking out. Luckily, we had a forgiving school, and he graduated a year or so late. But the same guy could find himself 5 lbs heavy, and just crank his exercise up from 1 to 2 hours a day, and a month later would be back to his preferred weight. He’s still that way, a half century later. I never had problems cranking out papers, or work assignments, even if I had to work around the clock, but diet and exercise over a month or two is very hard. Similarly, my partner can force herself to exercise diligently and diet conscientiously, but cannot, for the life of her, figure out electronic devices. We are traveling, and I have to turn Play on and off for her on my iPad for her to watch her shows.
My point is that we all have strengths and weaknesses. Some things are easy for us, while others are difficult. And other things are difficult for those who find the stuff that we find hard, easy. You may be the one person, who has no struggles in life. I know that I am not.
Instead of free community college, we'd be better off with free gym memberships.
Personal trainers for everybody! (said in an Oprah-esque yell).
Replying to Ann's question, "Why isn't losing weight easy? . The answer is that It's not about the food. Just as alcoholism is not about booze.
Ask any member of AA and they'll tell you that alcohol was not their problem. Obesity, much like drunkenness, are just symptoms of underlying mental issues: depression, insecurity, fear, loneliness.
Skyrocketing rates of fat are just another sign of the decay in American society.
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
"Why isn't losing weight easy? It's such a simple idea."
It is easy enough. Look, I come from a family of obese people. All of them, eat crap food, overeat, drink soda, and live sedentary lives. They all have adult onset diabetes too. They all take any number of drugs to deal with their poor health. My one brother spent 50k on bariatric surgery, lost the weight, but the never changed his habits and gained every pound back. I myself was once 235lbs. I had acid reflux, and high cholesterol. My doctor said I should take Prilosec, and a statin. Note that he did not suggest eating healthy and exercise. I said nope. I joined a Gym, I started eating healthy. I stopped drinking anything with sugar in it. I worked at it, and I stayed committed. I used will power to get over my habits. Now, I'm a cycle instructor, and I weigh 190lbs with lean muscle, and have been this way for years now. It CAN be done, but you have to commit to it which takes effort. I feel most people are fat because they just cant be bothered to do better.
“ it seems that More people (per capita) in USA are fat and pudgy (like ME)
coincidence?”
Likely not.
According to my primary care physician, there are multiple interacting, reasons why obesity is an issue with fighting COVID-19. The big thing that kills there is the cytokine storm. This is how we fight diseases, and how we fight COVID-19. But obesity makes this worse. First, the obvious - more tissue means more cytokines produced. Worse, adipose (fat) tissue apparently produces more than its fair share of cytokines. Finally, obese people tend to have low grade inflammation (generating cytokines) on a constant basis.
Queue up the Dean Wormer bit...would Dorfman be in a high-risk category?
Queue up the Dean Wormer bit...would Dorfman be high-risk?
It isn't easy because our bodies have been tuned for 100,000 years to avoid death by starvation at any cost. It's only in the last 70 years that that cost has been "being fat," for all but the wealthiest kings and lords
When you start screwing around with your metabolism, digestive tract, etc, you start to see what the force of evolutionary biology can do with the concept of "any cost"
FunkyPhD said...
Howard, do you know what kept BMI levels in the 1950s low? Smoking. More than 40% of American adults smoked in the 1950s. Bring back cigarettes! Make smoking cool again! I’d rather contend with clouds of smoke than have my eyeballs constantly assaulted by “body positive” fatties.
Well that and the wealth effect.
We have almost infinitely cheaper food now and that matters a lot more than smoking.
Poor people are poor for a reason. The same reason they can't control their weight.
Re: fat shaming. The overall problem with the Progressive mindset is that it has no limiting principle. If a little bit of something is good, a tremendous amount must be that much better; if an enormous amount of something is bad, then the tiniest bit must be expunged. Life is not like that; decisions should be made at the margin.
I work in research. There have been multiple articles and analyses written about the fact that COVID impacts Type 2 Diabetics (who are generally overweight) and those with high BMIs, over 35. This is not new information. The biggest risk factors for death from COVID are Type 2 diabetes, High BMI, Heart Disease, Age over 80, respiratory illnesses like COPD, low vitamin D.
The obesity and type 2 diabetes issues are why certain ethnic groups such as native Americans, Hispanics, and Blacks face a harder COVID fight. They have average overall higher BMIs and a much greater incidence of Type 2 diabetes.
While he may have a vested interest in his product being salad, that does not make his statement incorrect and it is not fat shaming to worn people of the risks associated with Obesity and COVID. To not tell the truth during a health crisis because you are afraid to "shame" someone is criminal.
Mike of Snoqualmie said...
My wife researched why losing weight is so hard. One of the things that happens is when you reduce your calorie intake, your body reduces its calorie burning rate because it thinks it's being starved. The body has a set point that it wants to maintain and getting it to change it is hard.
This is insulin resistance and your body not being used to a carb based diet. If your body is expecting carbohydrates and it doesn't get enough it really tries hard to store fat.
Everyone should watch this video.
Dr Ekberg shows you the history of obesity in the US.
It comes down to cheap carbs and insulin resistance.
Just after seeing the fat-shaming nonsense I saw this:
Date: August 27, 2021
Source: Massachusetts General Hospital
Summary: Cutting 20 percent of sugar from packaged foods and 40 percent from beverages could prevent 2.48 million cardiovascular disease events (such as strokes, heart attacks, cardiac arrests), 490,000 cardiovascular deaths, and 750,000 diabetes cases in the U.S. over the lifetime of the adult population, according to a new study.
Michael said...
Replying to Ann's question, "Why isn't losing weight easy? . The answer is that It's not about the food. Just as alcoholism is not about booze.
Ask any member of AA and they'll tell you that alcohol was not their problem. Obesity, much like drunkenness, are just symptoms of underlying mental issues: depression, insecurity, fear, loneliness.
Skyrocketing rates of fat are just another sign of the decay in American society.
This is all wrong.
First they made carbs cheap and accessible.
Then they paid off the experts to keep people buying those carbs.
It has nothing to do with gluttony or sloth. You cannot exercise enough to burn fat if you are on carbs.
If you really want to know what is going on with insulin resistance, obesity and weight loss this video is a good start.
I'm going to give a shout out to people who are diligent about what they eat and are still overweight.
I run at least 4 miles 4 times a week, walk another two days for about an hour. I intermittent fast and all our food is generally homemade. Only one serving at meals. I still need to lose 15 lbs. My spouse eats four meals a day, decides he needs to lose weight, stops eating at night and loses 15 lbs in a month. Genetics suck sometimes.
Soylent Green anyone?
Bob Boyd - this is not "blaming the victim" it is "pointing out an obvious factor." Do you want to ignore that people with certain conditions - obesity, diabetes, pulmonary problems - have a higher risk from Covid than those who do not have those conditions? Pointing out that the car had bald tires which was a contributing factor to the crash is not blaming the victim, it is pointing out a hazard.
"Why isn't losing weight easy?"
Because the human body resists it. When you reduce the amount of calories going in, your body responds by slowing down your metabolism and trying to store more energy as fat.
For nearly 300,000 the major problem humans faced was getting enough calories to survive. Thanks to free markets, today we no longer face that problem, but our bodies have not adapted.
Your body at healthy levels has about 2.4 grams of sugar in the blood stream. Your body uses about 1 gram of sugar per hour.
300 grams of carbs, a standard American diet, is stuffing 12 grams of sugar into your blood stream every hour. Your body deals with this by releasing insulin to remove it through storage and excretion.
The amazing thing to me is that our bodies can put up with this abuse for so long.
When your body is fat adapted, i.e. your mitochondria can burn fat(ketones), and you are in ketosis your body will preferentially burn fat and you will lose weight when you fast.
It is the opposite when your mitochondria use carbs. Your body pushes out insulin and cortisol and you get hungry when you fast. Any carbohydrates eaten are immediately shoved into the blood stream because of your hunger state and the body releases insulin. Insulin not only promotes the storage of adipose tissue, it inhibits things like lipase and prevents your body from burning fat.
We are being lied to about what is "Healthy."
"Should we blame gay men for the impact of the AIDS epidemic?"
In North America and Europe, yes.
In Africa, no.
Birches said...
I'm going to give a shout out to people who are diligent about what they eat and are still overweight.
I run at least 4 miles 4 times a week, walk another two days for about an hour. I intermittent fast and all our food is generally homemade. Only one serving at meals. I still need to lose 15 lbs. My spouse eats four meals a day, decides he needs to lose weight, stops eating at night and loses 15 lbs in a month. Genetics suck sometimes.
Men and women deal with fasting and diet completely differently.
Women are much more sensitive to the pressures of fasting than men. A woman can get the same benefits from fasting 24 hours that it takes a 72 hour fast for me to get to.
When women fast for extended periods their bodies stop their reproductive systems for obvious reasons. But both groups benefit greatly from lowered A1c levels and a low/no carb diet.
Ann Althouse said...
Why isn't losing weight easy? It's such a simple idea. It's obvious how to do it and why it should be done. Yet it's an immense topic for wondering and worrying about, and people try and try to do it and most of the success turns into a failure worse than if they hadn't even tried in the first place. It's the most perplexing thing!"
If it was easy, then it would not be a problem. Alcoholism is easy to prevent, just don't drink! Same for drugs and smoking. None of those are needed by the body to live.
So why isn't easy to avoid or stop those addictions? Avoiding getting pregnant is even easier. And the solution to avoiding pregnancy eliminates all STD's. Avoiding these problems are rather obvious.
Food is a necessity of life. People including fat people don't generally eat for the sake of eating. They eat until they feel satiated.
Why is it that being fat is considered a societal cost but alcoholics, drug addicts, welfare deadbeats and other parasites on the public teat aren't subject to shaming?
As others have already pointed out, according to the CDC:
"Percent of adults aged 20 and over with overweight, including obesity: 73.6% (2017-2018)"
So the COVID percentage doesn't appear to be much higher than the percentage in the general population. (Though there are, of course, other good reasons to lose weight. Someone I know has lost over one hundred pounds in the last year and a half, and, according to that person, the difference in sleep quality alone has been incredible.)
"Why isn't losing weight easy?"
Because if you believe author Gary Taubes and doctor Jason Fung (and many others), it's not about willpower. Appetite, hunger and the conversion of calories into fat are hormonally regulated processes over which we have no control. Some people luck out in the hormones department, others not so much. Fighting against a body that wants to turn food into fat is possible but has to be done craftily. Plus, you have to want to, so contra what I said first, there's at least some willpower involved.
"“[Seventy-eight percent] of hospitalizations due to COVID are Obese and Overweight people."
That is a planetary or national number? I thought 78% was roughly the portion of the percent of obese or overweight US population. And over what weight? Average weight?
What is "fat"? "overweight"? "obese"?
I accept that it changes when somebody needs to get a quicky scientific paper published.
What do we do, where do we draw the line. I hate that question because it always arises when the government takes in interest in or it is suggested the government take an interest in something not its business.
When I got out of OCS in 69, I was in terrific shape. Even after a three-week debauch over Christmas, the fearsome requirements of jump school were a joke. I was 6'2", 205. In some tables, I'd be overweight.
My father was all conference end for UConn at 6'1". 185. On some tables, he'd be overweight. It took six months of Infantry fighting to get down to an acceptable BMI.
Olympic-level gymnasts are kind of chunky; short limbs are a help. Where do they fit?
Point is...does anybody have a clue what kind of BMI requirements are going to accurately reflect the issue? Does anybody care? Is it even politic to actually care?
With overweight comes, possibly, diabetes. Was that in the figure?
What is the proportion of the population which has the same BMI and isn't sick at the ages mentioned?
Maybe we need a "grossly obese" index. Defined as can-barely-get-in-and-out-of-a-car, maybe?
Sigh. Like many Althouse readers, I am old enough to have lived through many government attempts at promoting health and healthy eating. My personal favorite is when they increased the FONT SIZE of the caloric load of food that is required on packaging. As if having the package YELL at you helped. My thinking is this: being obese is its OWN punishment. People may not say anything when an obese person impinges on their space in public, but we all know what they are thinking. Obese people pay more for clothing at some outlets, can't fit into a bus seat, need to ask for an extension of their seat belt on a plane, etc. Your dating pool is limited. At some point some have accepted being obese and the punishment that already comes with it - what is the government going to do to make that worse?
FWIW: this pandemic has been very good to me weight wise - lost 17 pounds off my 5' frame. How? Nothing special just minimizing junk, small portions, putting 16 hours between dinner and the next day's first meal, and lots of walking - up to 6 miles. Eat smart, frugally and move all you can. Still leaves plenty of room for a treat a few time a week and plenty of KDrama couch time.
"Why isn't losing weight easy? It's such a simple idea. It's obvious how to do it and why it should be done."
There is this slight problem called "hunger". Most overweight people, especially very overweight people, are simply hungry. Many of them are hungry almost all the time.
Hunger is an ancient motivator that will override all the logic of "It's such a simple idea. It's obvious how to do it and why it should be done."
For the obese who challenge their hunger, it becomes precoccupation. They can't take their minds off of food. Some dream of food. Abstaining from that next tempting bite becomes torture. Watching less heavy people down their meals and desserts is cruel and unusual punishment. The daily rituals of exercise are like shooting bb's at a tank. What "works" for some, fails for most.
So, why are people hungry apparently beyond all reason and "normal" sizing? Why does someone wearing a month's worth of nourishment on their body fret because it's not yet time for dinner?
I generally agree with Achilles's approach and have followed low-carb (and high animal fat -- no obesigenic vegetable oil for me) for more than 12 years. But the truth is you can find scientific support for just about any way of eating you prefer. Some are better at reducing weight than others, but there is no consensus on what is a "healthy diet".
That's why this subject is enormous and controversial. Why diet advice is ever popular yet contradictory. People try. Really, really try. And fail over and over. Just imagine being hungry, fat, and shamed for it.
@ Mikey NTH
Oh! So now fat people don't have good tires. Probably over inflate them, right? I see how it is. Fat-phobe!
Just kidding.
Do you want to ignore that people with certain conditions - obesity, diabetes, pulmonary problems - have a higher risk from Covid than those who do not have those conditions?
No. I didn't say anything like that. People in poor physical condition and with serious health conditions are more likely to have poor outcomes from any disease. That's not news. The fact is, as Professor Althouse pointed out, the causes of chronic obesity are not well understood and the treatment approaches we've tried so far are often completely ineffective. We're only just beginning to scratch the surface when it comes to the scope and role of the gut microbiome, for example.
Pointing out that the car had bald tires which was a contributing factor to the crash is not blaming the victim, it is pointing out a hazard.
This crash was caused by a drunk driver. Pointing at the tires on the dead victim's car is a distraction. What do you want to bet this Neman's company, or some other company he's invested in, is trying to expand into the Chinese market?
Losing weight is easy in the sense that we know exactly what one has to do to lose weight- burn more calories than one consumes. What is hard is getting the discipline to do so. I am not talking out of my ass here- when I was in college I put on 100 pounds between the Summer after my freshman year and my first year in grad school topping out at 275 on a 5' 10" frame. For me, losing the weight was easy- all I had to do was start working out and playing sports again, the things I gave up after that first year of college. I lost the 100 pounds in less than 8 months and have kept it off ever since. The only dietary change I made was to stop eating fast food all the time, and really upped the protein over all carbohydrates.
The one piece of advice I would offer is that you have to weigh yourself every single day- it is the one metric you can't misinterpret. I have done this every day for the last 31 years- it tells me when I am eating too much, or too much of the wrong things- my activity levels are very constant, my dietary ones not so much.
But does the criticism "fat-shaming" fit? Another way to put that is: Does broad use of the term "fat-shaming" dilute its effectiveness? I'm going to say yes. Here's my point.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one, Professor Althouse.
The primary goal of the "anti-fat shaming" crowd is not to block people from saying "fat == ugly". The primary goal is, in fact, to block people from pointing out how unhealthy it is to be fat.
Because in our modern "safetyist" age, "unhealthy" is a far greater sin that "ugly". Especially in the social milieu of the people who actually care about being accused of "fat shaming".
So, no, blocking things like people pointing out that Covid's mostly a threat to the morbidly obese isthe main goal of that "anti-fat shaming" crowd.
In fact, their major goal is to eliminate the phrase "morbidly obese", because the phrase itself points out the problem with being fat: It's strongly correlated with disease and death
I just checked out the online menu for the nearest Sweetgreen location -- a simple bowl of takeout salad costs $11-$14. Of course, you don't have to pay a huge amount of money to eat healthy, if you know how to shop and prepare the right foods. But if you're just looking to fill your belly for a quick lunch, you could buy, say, a Bacon McDouble at McDonald's (with plenty of carbs, fat and sodium, and very little fiber) for $2.
Fat acceptance is "politically correct," but it also goes against the general trend of political correctness which is making us more like China. So I'm ambivalent about it. It shames and suppresses people for shaming fat people, but at least it saves us from government-imposed calisthenics.
If under 65 and without chronic health problems, a BMI of 25+ is your ticket to monoclonal antibody eligibility.
So..if you are close and looking for a reason to chow down this weekend, there ya go.
Speaking as a person who is down 50 pounds from my max mass, and who needs to lose 150 more pounds for my health: to hell with people who throw around fat shaming and fat phobia. Being overweight is killing me, and I damn well know it. So do all the other fat people on earth.
When you can't reach your own backside on the potty you know something is very, very wrong. If I can accept the shame of having to grope really awkwardly with toilet paper to avoid having my backside covered with my own filth, anything anyone says to me is quite insignificant in comparison.
I have a lot of Optifast protein shakes in my future, and a lot of them in my past. They aren't any fun, with side effects from constipation to muscle loss to fatigue to mental impairment while basically starving myself to lose weight. But I'm doing it.
I’ll be 69 years old later this month. I’ve lost 35 lbs since Feb ‘20 and feel much better. I’d like to lose more - another 20 lbs would be nice - and have a short term goal of losing 10 lbs before our daughter’s wedding in late November.
I’ve developed a better appreciation for the discipline required to lose and maintain weight.
This is true: "Howard (not that Howard) said...
I've been saying since the very beginning, like March 2020, that the best response to this pandemic is to focus on improving one's general health,", but how?
And also true what Temujin said...
There's so much about the virus, it's variations, the vaccines, and mask use that is constantly changing. Either the message gets changed to fit the new narrative or new actual facts appear. And it has been this way since December of 2019. But there have been a handful of constants that we know. Things that seem to be indicators of who will be more severely ill, or die, from this virus.
Obesity? Yep, known since the beginning. At least one mention of Vitamin D above- and very early on one of the biggest predictors of whether someone ended up in ICU was- low Vitamin D blood level. Hey, you know what most obese people have? Low Vitamin D blood level. Fat cells suck up D. And don't give it up easily. Why? I don't know. The relationship between low D blood levels and worse outcomes in ALL URIs, including TB, has been known for over 2 decades. How many of you have had your D blood level checked? According to most internet sources, an ideal range is 40-60 ng/ml with >100 approaching Vitamin D intoxication, a bad thing. Except in the USA, inexplicably a few years back, the upper level was set at 50 ng/ml. Why isn't a blood level check a routing part of routine physicals and hospital admissions? It's an easy fix.
So aside from Vitamin D checking, how do you improve your general health? Well, a good multi-vitamin-mineral (without iron) won't hurt. Of course, the medical establishment is near unanimous that all supplements are a waster of money- because if you eat a well balanced diet, you get all the vitamins and minerals you need! Note to medical establishment- no one eats a well balanced diet. You'll have to do the research yourself- what's best for me may not be best for you. Most people get the Mg they need from tap water. My well is 36 grains hard- we soften with potassium chloride. Hence, no Mg. And, when I switched from NaCl to KCl my better half's BP medicine had to be adjusted. There's all kinds of factors that determine what you will need- and one is- what's in your water supply. Do you like fruits and veggies or do you avoid them? Are you a vegetarian? Then you REALLY need to supplement...
I've seen it here, I've seen it in other places, and I've said it myself. Your doctor, the health establishment, the government, none of them are responsible for your health. You are. Your doctor can help- but he's there to treat your sicknesses, not keep you healthy.
Losing weight is hard because food is cheap -- or was cheap before Bidenflation.
We use food as a drug, and as drugs go it's not the worst.
I think you can lose weight -- or quit smoking -- if you radically change your life routine.
But then you sink into a new routine and start putting on the pounds again.
Keep it up mikee until you reach your goal. Figure out how to game your hunger pangs. Will power is for losers. Construct a system that limits your choices to non-triggering foods.
Mike Sylwester asks the right question at 6:28, but only gives a partial answer 29 minutes later. The key is the phrase “overweight or obese.” Per the CDC the percent of adults over 20 who are overweight or obese is 73.6%. So the proportion of those hospitalized for COVID who are overweight or obese pretty much mirrors the percentage of people classed as overweight or obese in the general population.
One bagel has around 270 calories. A three Mike run burns around 300 calories. One. Bagel. The key is to not eat the bagel but do the run. You cannot lose weight by exercise alone.
A bagel is empty calories with carbs that will make you hungry again sooner.
Yancey Ward said...
Losing weight is easy in the sense that we know exactly what one has to do to lose weight- burn more calories than one consumes. What is hard is getting the discipline to do so.
This is just wrong.
Your doctor is wrong about weight loss.
I have been going 20 hours between eating periods.
I don't get particularly hungry.
The no pain/no gain and self control people are wrong.
Carbs are an addictive poison.
Yes the underlying condition is not just the obesity but more than likely obstructive sleep apnea so rampant among obese patients. I've written about this topic on several occasions for The Epoch Times.
Barry Krakow MD
www.barrykrakowmd.com
www.fastasleep.substack.com
La_bob,
Don't have to be hungry when losing weight. Plenty of filling, relatively lo-cal foods available.
Yes the underlying condition is not just the obesity but more than likely obstructive sleep apnea so rampant among obese patients. I've written about this topic on several occasions for The Epoch Times.
Barry Krakow MD
Www.barrykrakowmd.com
Fastasleep.substack.com
I do enjoy living in a time and place where one of our biggest social issues is that poor people have too much food.
Every formerly fat female I’ve known, and I know a few, has a visceral dislike for the obese, and blames their obesity on them, not on any external factors. And all of them credit their weight loss to- they decided to stop being fat so they ate less and exercised more. Self control is how they expressed it.
I only have one formerly fat male friend. His motivation was the doctor telling him he had two choices- lose weight or die. And he lost it through diet and exercise. Newly retired, he and his wife joined a gym with pool and went swimming 3X a week.
I'm seventy and discovered that when I'm hungry drink a big glass of ice water then wait a few minutes not hungry.
"Will power is for losers."
LOL
My doctors said "lose weight." So I asked how. They said "follow a Mediterranean diet." But I still don't see how lasagna is gonna help...
Google Scholar is your friend for sorting out medical, nutritional, etc information. You can search for terms (X OR Y) omit others (-Z) and winnow by publication date.
On the topic of "Metabolic Syndrome" OR "Obesity", there are 3,540,000 results.
When you add "Inflammation" it drops only to 3,050,000 results. But if you ALSO add "Mitochondria" "Hippocampus" you're starting to get somewhere (31,100 results).
Inflammation in the mitochondria of the hippocampus.
So, what do you do about that? Address aberrant inflammation in the mitochondria of the hippocampus, of course. (Easier said than done.)
A recent 2021 study:
Int. J. Mol. Sci. 2021
From Obesity to Hippocampal Neurodegeneration: Pathogenesis and Non-Pharmacological Interventions
Open access: https://doi.org/10.3390/ijms22010201
Unknown said...
My doctors said "lose weight." So I asked how. They said "follow a Mediterranean diet." But I still don't see how lasagna is gonna help...
I love lasagna.
Replace the noodles with sliced eggplant. I have started frying the sliced eggplant in butter and adding garlic salt and pepper.
4 pounds of lasagna ends up with around 30 carbs total from the canned tomatoes.
BMI is silly. The more muscle one has, the higher the BMI, yet bodyfat percentage is lower. The average NFL tight end is considered obese by BMI standards. Not just overweight -- obese!
Use bodyfat percentage. Yes, it takes a few moments. But wouldn't accurate information be more useful than a stupid metric that fails to measure what it is used for?
There are college QBs playing this weekend who are in outstanding physical shape, yet have BMI ratings over obese.
Birches said...
I'm going to give a shout out to people who are diligent about what they eat and are still overweight.
I run at least 4 miles 4 times a week, walk another two days for about an hour. I intermittent fast and all our food is generally homemade. Only one serving at meals. I still need to lose 15 lbs. My spouse eats four meals a day, decides he needs to lose weight, stops eating at night and loses 15 lbs in a month. Genetics suck sometimes.
Birches-- this might sound counterintuitive, but--aside from the differences between men and women, you may be either overdoing the intense exercise or actually not eating enough to fuel your body's needs to recover from that exercise. I'm not a professional, nor do I play one on TV, but in my own experience, my now-middle-aged female body seems to respond to anything approaching intense exercise by hoarding every pound it can and encouraging me to eat. Conversely, increasing my low intensity exercise such as walking does not seem to trigger a similar response. The major changes I made over the last year were increased walking, eating somewhat better (more veggies, less processed stuff, and avoid carb-laden dinners), and eating usually 2 meals/day on weekends rather than 3, with a resulting much-needed loss of 30 lbs. Granted, that's purely personal experience, there are plenty more pounds yet to be shed, and I really do needed to figure out how to work in muscle building activities without ruining the overall success. Nevertheless, it's been interesting.
Also, for everyone who is trying to improve health/lose weight in a healthy manner/etc--go to the doctor and get your tests & blood work done so that (1) you know your physiological baseline, and (2) you can discover any hidden problems and address them!
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