Today I learned that people exist who take out $200k+ in loans for film studies degrees. https://t.co/SH74Y5UyfY
— Jonathan Swan (@jonathanvswan) July 9, 2021
July 9, 2021
"Today I learned that people exist who take out $200k+ in loans for film studies degrees."
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9 comments:
Alex writes:
"I have a lot of sympathy for these young adults, many of whom were my peers or a few years behind me in school. A lot of these kids come from upper middle-class backgrounds where their parents would be horrified if Junior went into a trade. They've been brainwashed their entire lives to believe that college was the route to success, and anything else was failure and embarrassment. Post-graduate degrees weren't just about making you more marketable, they were a symbol of your place among the "elite". Worse, they often suffer from the sunk cost fallacy in that they've already committed four years and a significant amount of money to an undergraduate degree in a certain field, and so there's pressure to keep committing to that career through a master's degree (or Ph.D) in the hopes that you can get a job that pays well enough to make it all worth it in the end.
"My understanding is that law schools see this as well sometimes: students who can't find work in their desired fields, unsure of what they can do, decide to become a lawyer, in part because it's a respectable middle-class career, but doesn't have the stigma of going back to school for a completely new degree (which would be an admission of failure)."
Washington Blogger writes:
"Maybe schools can teach a master course in personal finance and ROI. I find it interesting, (and maybe you do too in the same way) how articles about people who get themselves into difficult financial situations always focus on the provider of the option, rather than the people who chose the option. I can't read the article, due to paywall but it seems focused on how the schools might be at fault for charging so much for degrees instead of focusing on how foolish these people are for paying so much for the product. Really, do these people have no understanding of cost verses value? Makes you wonder if college educated people are really all that smart. Then it gets you thinking about all the stuff they believe about the world and it might just explain a lot.
"I often see the suggestion on other sites I visit that schools should have skin in the game in that they should be on the hook for defaulted loans. Maybe that would incent them to curb the cost a bit or at least counsel the perspective students on the realities of the costs and potential return. Right now they risk nothing, so they can trade on their marquee and fill their classes with willing dupes.
"Too harsh? I've got 4 kids in college. When selecting which school and which degree we went carefully over the financial details. None of my kids are going to come out of school with anything close to 6 figures of debt (except maybe my budding dentist candidate). We are working on keeping it under 20k, something they can manage even as a barista, should it come to that."
Tom writes:
"In my twilight years, it seems there are now SO many things about which to be pessimistic. No need to go down the list. But this one particular story from the WSJ, in a strange way, sort of fueled added my pessimism.
"Tne thing virtually everyone would say about me is, “he stays optimistic, and"… (hat tip to Eric Idle) … "he always looks on the bright side of life…”. The reason for my general optimism about our society was that it seemed the collective “we” could and would usually find our way through challenges and sticky situations by being smart, clever, resourceful, self-sufficient, innovative, and persistent.
"This WSJ article bothers me and erodes my shrinking optimism a little more. Why? It’s not cataclysmic or anything. I think it is because it shows how clueless many have become, how deficient at envisioning consequences (ie, predicable future realities) some of our allegedly best and brightest people have become. A C-minus high school student should be able to figure out on a napkin at Arby’s the foolishness of going hundreds of thousands in debt in order to get a low-paying occupation or no job at all for an unspecified time. The fault is not just the universities' alone for exploiting them. An equivalent fault flows to those who seem ill-prepared to just do the math or even ask the right questions, and are so primed to be delusional unicorn hunters, I guess. We seem to be getting less savvy.
"I cannot imagine ANY of my high school or college classmates wandering off into this doom scenario or even considering it for more than a nanosecond. But that was in the 1950’s and 60’s. Even 30 years after that the older Bush would say “it’s not prudent”.
"Of course there IS the possibility that these new debtors are smarter than I, even if less responsible. Maybe they are predicting that some national leaders would turn on the “money spigot” to wipe out what they owe to the academic pirates and by so doing, in effect, plunk their foolhardy debts onto the heads of THEIR progeny. It’s discouraging in my opinion."
CaroWalk writes:
"I have an early 80s version of that story. Dropped out of college, worked in advertising for two years, decided I wanted to pursue “my passion” for writing, film and photography. Admitted to NYU Tisch school of the arts. Undergrad class of 82. Got a job as an apprentice editor on a documentary, $100 a week. Folks were lined up to take this job for free. I pulled ahead from the competition by agreeing to cook Cuban food for the crew, and change the kitty litter for the editor. After that job ended and I couldn’t find another gig, I limped home to New Orleans and got a job writing unglamorous commercial real estate appraisals, and kicked ass. The chance that you will be paid real money to indulge your “passion” is miniscule. Not impossible, but improbable for 98% of people. Thankful I learned that lesson by age 26."
Rich writes:
"Joe Biden wants two more years of “free” School. Judging from results two fewer years would be more educational."
FunkyPhD writes:
"In the case of Columbia’s film MFA, they’re clearly looking at the degree as a hunt for gold. Their student film might win a festival award or get picked up by a streaming service, which could lead to their being hailed as the next Spielberg or Kathryn Bigelow. An investment of $200K is minuscule compared to what they’ll make as A-list Hollywood directors. Clearly, though, that only happens for a tiny percentage of the degree holders. And I’m not happy about picking up the tab for the Grad Plus loans of the 60% or so of those whose loans are forgiven after 20-25 years."
Yes, they are making a bet on themselves, and the article looks at those who lost the bet. But what was their chance of winning? Others won, didn't they?
I agree that if people are making big bets on their own talent and its commercial value, then there's no reason to help them out if they lose. Gamblers have to feel the impact of their losses or we cautious people will be ripped off over and over again.
Tom writes:
"The Department of Education used to have a "gainful employment" rule that tracked the job success of graduates from for-profit colleges. There have been studies showing that plenty of traditional colleges would have failed the rule too, and this film school debt is a great example."
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/01/16/profit-programs-not-only-ones-would-fail-gainful-employment-test#
Tom writes:
"I remember a conversation with my son about whether he should go to Loyola of Chicago or a state school. Being the responsible one I kept pointing out the difference in cost until I got the "you let my sister go to a private school". My response was, that was her choice and you can make your choice. But whose money do you think we're talking about?, your mom and I have a small pool of money to help you go to college, when it's gone it's gone. And it will be gone within the first year if you go to Loyola but might get you half way through a state school and the second half at a state school will be cheaper than the just second year at Loyola. I think it was a bit of a shock when he realized it was his money we were talking about."
Barbara B writes:
"Film school: "streets of Hollywood paved with broken dreams" meets "sucker born every minute.""
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