"... a fear echoed both by trans-exclusionary groups and by lesbian feminists who in other ways advocate for trans rights. Feminist writer Aimee Anderson frets about 'the extinction of an entire people,' and CherrÃe Moraga worries that butch lesbians, self-actualizing as transmasculine, might 'become a dying breed.' Tomboys, too, have become a point of contention, seen by some as a 'rarer and rarer species' that is 'going extinct' as more tomboyish children identify as trans and/or nonbinary.... As a lesbian researcher of tomboyism trained in queer theory, I find claims like these at once absurd and frightening. Extinction anxieties have long fueled nationalist, fascist and white-supremacist movements and often beget eugenicist agendas. Indeed, tomboyism as we know it arose in concert with eugenics.... Child-rearing manuals began advocating for exercise and comfortable clothing, instead of the restrictive and harmful corsets then common, as means of making White girls fit to produce healthy White offspring.... Lesbians are not a species, and we feed existing racist, ableist and homophobic agendas when we invoke extinction...."
From "The latest form of transphobia: Saying lesbians are going extinct" by Lynne Stahl (WaPO).
Posts
113 comments:
Leaders of the British group LGB Alliance warn that lesbians are 'going to become extinc' as individuals increasingly identify as trans...
Shouldn't that be "exticx" or something?
You can't even be a normal lesbian these days.
Child-rearing manuals began advocating for exercise and comfortable clothing, instead of the restrictive and harmful corsets then common,
Corsets were neither. Certainly no worse than modern bras.
The loss of tomboys isn't just a lesbian issue. There are a lot of men who like tomboys because they don't want the drama commonly associated with a "girly-girl." They like someone who wants to throw on jeans and a t-shirt and go for a hike, or fishing, or work on the car.
Arguably transgenderism is misogynistic: it argues that being a woman is a matter of appearance and chosen behaviors and that if you don't conform then you aren't actually a woman. You must really be a man and just haven't acknowledged it yet.
The patriarchy is trying once again to define standards of womanhood. Ho hum. We will survive, as always.
Are they not reproducing?
Some labels may fall out of fashion because people get more options to define themselves as they please?
The horror!
"as means of making White girls fit to produce healthy White offspring..”
Were there special rules enforced for black and Asian girls to keep them from wearing comfortable clothes? They are well into self parody at this point.
a fear echoed both by trans-exclusionary groups and by lesbian feminists who in other ways advocate for trans rights.
I am far too old to learn a second language. And this one, near as I can tell from context, is nothing but gibberish.
The film Chasing Amy documented the extinction of the most legendary sort of lesbian decades ago.
Time marches on. And it circles back. And the TERF war continues. The message in the Seventies was that a girl could like sports and trucks and still be a girl. Was there some implicit assumption that she didn't have to be a lesbian either? That was not really discussed. Now the message seems to be that liking rugby and heavy machinery does make a girl, even a lesbian girl, a boy.
Is there a conflict between gays who correspond to cisgender stereotypes on the one hand and women who are too masculine and men who are too feminine on the other? That's also been around for a long time, though it also wasn't articulated in the mainstream media. So is the response of more mainstream gay men and women to the transphenomenon going to be to resent their more conspicuous comrades leaving or to celebrate it?
This is all assuming that the transworld is going to keep growing and growing. Will it?
the tyranny of 0.6% of the population.
There are male friendly lesbians, whatever “Chasing Amy” has to say about the subject.
Who knew? Favoring rights of men over women would hurt women’s rights? Imagine that.
Plug the dike! We are leaking lesbians!
The absolute trivia which dominates the news is mind blowing
Sex: male and female. Gender is sex-correlated physical and mental (e.g. sexual orientation) attributes: masculine and feminine, respectively. The transgender spectrum: a state or process of divergence from normal (e.g. distribution). The Rainbow of inclusive exclusion.
Oh yes!
The lesbian actress, I forget her name, she transitioned into a male.
There’s your poster boy.
Wait... is poster boy transgressive language yet?
Add this relatively mild anti-white racist screed to the 10+ others the WaPoo has published in the last few days.
When there are no problems, make some up. Mental conditions made into social maladjustments don't play well on our remaining theatre stages where the show would be cancelled due to disinterest and bad acting.
"As a lesbian researcher of tomboyism trained in queer theory"
You can basically stop reading once you reach that clause in the article.
Again, this is another cryptoscopic sampling blown up for your shadenboner pleasure. IOW, online porn for impotent INCELs.
Lurker: cisgender is a slur, like whitey or [insert your own]. It was specifically invented to slur heterosexuals and now the slur is extended to gays and lesbians who feel “born that way.”
Good. Lesbians were insufferable. Now do the rest of the 'spectrum'.
Arguably transgenderism is misogynistic: it argues that being a woman is a matter of appearance and chosen behaviors and that if you don't conform then you aren't actually a woman. You must really be a man and just haven't acknowledged it yet.
Yes, seen from the point of view of 1970s Second Wave feminism, transgenderism is reactionary, a step back into old gender stereotypes. Have the more recent waves of feminists really grappled with that older view and resolved the contradiction between the older feminist idea and the new enthusiasm for transgenderism?
This is all about 'look at me.'
You get victim points for being a woman, but a black woman out-points you.
A gay black woman out-points both.
So now along comes a gay black woman with dyslexia.
She out-points all of the above.
So people keep putting themselves in to smaller and smaller boxes to try to be more special than they really are.
And the politicians, of course, aid and abet this silliness by doling our favors and pitting groups against each other.
It's a win-win except for the normal, boring people, who can only look on in wonder and horror.
A side benefit of all the LGBT brainwashing of young women is that it is a LOT easier to recruit young women for a threesome that includes one man.
Genderphobia.
That's not new. I first read of this concept of trans people threatening lesbians 15-20 years ago. They weren't "TERFs" then, they were "womyn born womyn"
And trying to keep trans folk out of their clubhouse.
Isn't this at odds with the belief that homosexuality is innate? It sounds likthese folk are complain that too many people CHOOSE something else and not enough CHOOSE to be homosexual/lesbian.
John Henry
Reminds me of the civil war in the deaf community. Is it OK to use technology to be able to cure deafness, or are attempts to "cure" deafness an attack on the deaf community?
" is a LOT easier to recruit young women for a threesome that includes one man.”
Yep, and not to mention that a blow job has become a good night kiss.
A side benefit of all the LGBT brainwashing of young women is that it is a LOT easier to recruit young women for a threesome that includes one man.
A masculinist's dream and the feminist handmaiden: keep women appointed, available, and taxable.
I guess I should say that the goodnight kiss has become a blowjob.
Oh no.
Who is going to buy all the Subaru Outbacks?
Actually much further back than I thought
"In 1978, the Lesbian Organization of Toronto adopted a womyn-born womyn-only policy in response to a request for admittance by a transgender woman who identified as lesbian."
There's a whole Wikipedia pages on womyn born womyn.
John Henry
I guess I should say that the goodnight kiss has become a blowjob.
The second hole in the three hole sexual triad.
I'm not worried. There will always be a demand for ordinary, decent lesbians on Pornhub.
in response to a request for admittance by a transgender woman who identified as lesbian
Transgenderism and diversity, too. Forward! and don't spare the [carbon-based] babies.
Oh no.
Who is going to buy all the Subaru Outbacks?
LOL!
Subaru stock plummeted on the news.
"A side benefit of all the LGBT brainwashing of young women is that it is a LOT easier to recruit young women for a threesome that includes one man."
Making lemonade out of lemons.
I like your style, sir!
The problem, imho, is that the Wizard of Smart allowed this new group to come onto the scene and allowed them to redefine terms that already existed. Then the Priests of Acceptability conferred power upon this new group so that nobody is allowed to question them.
Of course lesbians are going to go extinct. Because the definition of lesbian has been hijacked.
Men want lots of sex. Women want lots of security. This used to be accomplished with marriage. A marriage license was society's way of endorsing, even encouraging you to get it on, and providing a family unit that the rest of society would endorse and encourage.
What we are experiencing now is a direct consequence of dismantling the institution of marriage *and* not replacing it with anything else. It is hubris. The idea that modern man is wiser than ancient man because we have electricity, or steel, or fire.
Of course lesbians are going to go extinct, because the interlopers have changed its meaning. Here is about 5 years I expect urban dictionary to define the word lesbian as a woman that wants a husband. As in "yeah, she's a lesbian but everyone knows she would settle down for some good D".
There are already subcultures of biologically entact males that are identifying as lesbian women in order to date and have sex with biological women that identify as lesbian. What kind of convoluted world view is that?
LGBTASDF will go away. It will soon be defined as LGT with the T laying claim to all of the other letters. Then the G will do what men have done throughout the ages, if they are ignored long enough they will go their own way. Make their own spaces. They can already vote, own guns and property, now they can marry and adopt, what more is there to fight for that would cause them to partner with the T group? Anyway, that will leave LT and between the straight women claiming to be L so they can look edgy to hetero men and the T laying claim to all of the dyke inspired activities there will not be any actual lesbians left in the L category.
All this, imho.
It's totally okay to have debate and disagree, but folks in media, the term "biological males" is a serious anti-trans slur. You should not use it without noting that.
It's like you people have forgotten how pervasive ridiculous behaviors and notions in the 70's and 80's were.
Millennials buy and large are very boring and normal like J Farmer. It's like you live to let social media click bait pump you up. It's easy to trigger snowflakes, that's for certain.
Save the Lesbians!
Serious Questions
How many Tomboys became Girly Girls, when they grew up
How many Lesbians became Straight, when they graduated from College?
Finally, how many Trans surgeries are reversible?
If Lesbians were being harpooned in mass by the Japanese fishing fleet we would do something, would we not?
1) If you can have a penis and be a lesbian, why even have words? Why would "lesbian" or "trans" or any other word be imbued with any more or less meaning than "tomboy" or "butch"? It seems that a rose, by any other name, becomes the other name.
2) I can't shake the feeling that the woke usage of "White" vs "white" brings us a real step closer to some future manifestation of eugenic cattle cars. I also can't shake the feeling that people like Lynne Stahl may be on-board with that.
We are here for light hearted banter. If somebody is “triggered” it seems like it’s the person who keeps using the word.
“Help, I’m a lesbian trapped in a man’s body!"
I've read about the later stages of the French Revolution. The Montagnards, the sans culottes, Girondists, and various factions of the Jacobins were all assured that they knew of the one true path towards liberty, equality, and fraternity and were equally assured that the best way forward was to behead those who strayed from this one true path......In retrospect, one can see that fraternity is kind of male supremacist. Equity should take precedence of equality, and liberty should be subordinated to the proper attitude towards the beheading of the enemies of liberty. They were all wrong and all deserved beheading.....The politics here are similar, but sadly there are no guillotines in the public square so you can't tell how sincere they are in their defense of whatever faction of lesbianism they think should prevail.
Blogger tim in vermont said...
“Help, I’m a lesbian trapped in a man’s body!"
3/20/21, 11:55 AM
You beat me to it.
Every time a lesbian claims she's a man, she becomes straight, if she continues having sex with women, as does her female partner, unless her female partner also claims she's a man, and then it's clearly a gay male couple.
This is how stupid this is.
I'm really surprised that the word, tomboy, isn't considered a sexist slur.
Mr Wibble said...
Arguably transgenderism is misogynistic: it argues that being a woman is a matter of appearance and chosen behaviors and that if you don't conform then you aren't actually a woman.
Bingo.
"There's only one way to be a real woman, anything thing else and you're not a real woman, you're 'trans'".
I'm trying to think of something more bigoted and hateful than that, and I can't. But that's the "trans" position. You can't "be yourself" and "be a woman"
tim maguire said...
Some labels may fall out of fashion because people get more options to define themselves as they please?
No, they don't. That's the whole point of cancel culture: You can only use the labels approved of my the Left
They are correct, of course. What they don't mention is women are also going to go extinct. If a biological male with a penis can declare to be a woman and we must accept this even if he/she changed his/her mind the next day, then we are all men with different plumbing and fashion sense.
If lesbians go extinct our entire sexual ecosystem could be thrown out of balance and the resulting sexual climate could make our bedrooms uninhabitable.
Studies show we have less than 12 years to turn this around.
Stop Sexual Climate Change!
Save the Lesbians!
Much to do about nothing. As long as there is a Madison City Council, there will be lesbians.
Some transsexuals are so attracted to their new gender identities that they come out as gay, like that Olympic decathalete who was part of the Kardashian family and is now a woman married to a woman. It might seem to an outsider that going through all that surgery and hormone treatment is a waste of time and money, but I guess it is a new way for lesbians to replentish their numbers.
The other side of the coin from what we've said already is that conservatives were the harshest critics of Title IX, and now they are the most determined defenders of Title IX and women's sports. I don't have a dog in this fight. On the one hand, it's nice that girls can do sports without having to be boys or even lesbians. On the other hand, male jocks were so insufferable, I couldn't see much point in having more female ones. Also, be a country that cares about soccer or a country that doesn't care about soccer, but don't be always talking about how your women are the best in the world when your men aren't any good and you are one of the few countries that cares much about women's soccer.
tim maguire said...
Some labels may fall out of fashion because people get more options to define themselves as they please?
You don't like your breasts? You're not a real woman, you're a trans man / non binary, because you have to like your breasts if you're a woman.
You don't like wearing dresses? You're not a real woman, you're a trans man / non binary, because you have to like wearing dresses if you're a woman.
You want to play ball games, not play with dolls? You're not a real woman, you're a trans man / non binary, because you have to like playing with dolls if you're a woman.
That's the trans ideology, and that's what the terms are fighting. It's not about "freedom to shose your own label", it never is with the Left.
It's about the Left deciding the one label you're allowed to use, and forcing it on everyone.
See CRT and "white".
Lurker21 said...
The other side of the coin from what we've said already is that conservatives were the harshest critics of Title IX
That's because it was being used to destroy men's sports.
Using Title IX to wipe out men's sports teams because there weren't enough women who wanted to play sports was an abomination.
Using Title IX to protect women's sports from men who want to destroy women's sports, OTOH, is perfectly reasonable
The Asian Lesbians are really in trouble.
When I used to work with a lot of lesbians and gays, there was serious hostility towards transgender activists (not individuals, but the political agenda) among them. There were also trans men ( born male, presented female, whatever) who for some reason wanted leadership positions in the abortion rights movement.
But people who called themselves bisexual is what really cheesed off the committed gays and lesbians. Don’t they seem to manage to piss off everyone? They were like the incels of the rainbow coalition. I also imagine there are a lot of older gay folks who really dislike the “gender fluid” crowd. And now they’re stuck with purportedly heterosexual throuples too.
What a pain their board meetings must be like now.
I had a friend who claimed to be a lesbian trapped in a man’s body. He worked at the UCD library when I worked there. He obviously had the worst luck meeting women since he was only attracted to lesbians. Last I knew he took a leave of absence to spend a year in Paris, his other big dream. I lost contact but wondered and hoped if perhaps French lesbians might be more accepting. That was a long time ago, perhaps he became a trans woman/lesbian — but he wasn’t that good looking so I hope not.
This LGBTxyz stuff gets so exhausting. Most of us really don’t care who you are having sex with. My partner tells me that it is sinful. She gets that from her Roman Catholic upbringing, where only priests are allowed to be homosexuals. I am more libertarian- it is between them and their god. Some people are just wired backwards. I should say, some animals, because homosexuality is not limited to humans. Maybe 1/5 of the population is left handed, and maybe 1% have their hearts on the right side. Things happen during gestation.
But I refuse to give anyone any moral credit because they flaunt their deviant behavior before the rest of the world, in order to compensate for personal issues. I much prefer how homosexuality is treated in rural MT - it’s ignored. Two guys or two gals want to get together, fine. Just don’t bother me with it. I don’t care. Funny thing is, that I have more gay and lesbian friends there, than I have ever had elsewhere.
Part of what probably messes up lesbians is that it very much appears that there are probably more bisexual lesbians, that homosexual ones. I say that, because I think that I can usually tell. Is there sexual tension between me and a lesbian? If not, she is very likely homosexual. Gay guys though tend to be wired as homosexuals. Sure, there are distinctions, as we have learned here - such as whether they are tops or bottoms, etc. But it seems to be mostly wiring. For lesbians though, if they are more bi that homosexual, being a lesbian is a choice, at some level. Trendiness, to some extent, determines their pool of sex partners, and being a mere lesbian is no longer the trendiest thing that a woman can do.
I had a friend who claimed to be a lesbian trapped in a man’s body.
I've been doing that since the early 1980's. I've had to stop, not everyone gets the joke.
My oldest friend is a lesbian. Ex Army. Firefighter. Before the standards were lowered for women.
She’s also a Republican. But she keeps that in the closet.
Every woman CAN be a lesbian!
I think worrying about lesbians or tomboys as a people is sort of silly -- they're not a distinct cultural/ethnic group like Dzungars or Jews or Armenians. But I think there's a fundamental tension between the idea that transgender is "real" and should be supported with artificial hormone injections and plastic surgery, on the one hand, and the notion that people can be gender atypical, like tomboys. Or, frankly, like myself.
I was an exceptionally effeminate little boy (and am still quite effete). As a teenager I sometimes joked that I had been taught piano, drawing, sewing, knitting -- all the arts of an accomplished young lady. Nowadays I suppose some psychiatrists would have pushed my parents to have me chemically castrated so I could live as a transgender lesbian. This is similar to how affirmation of public homosexuality has sexualised some forms of expression of male friendship such that modern readers interpret relationships like Watson and Holmes or Sam and Frodo as homosexual.
Complaining that there's no more space for boyish young girls or girlish young boys would, in the grand scheme of things, be a pretty minor complaint. Different societies differ in their tolerance for gender nonconforming behaviours, after all. But the hormone injections and cosmetic surgery
don't only reinforce a strict behavioural boundry between the sexes. They take something a bit dotty and make it utterly horrifying.
Bisexuals don't get enough attention in the LGB movement. Just like political moderates, they have the largest numbers, but get the least attention. Probably leads some to one side or the other just to get some juice.
Ewww!
Extinction anxieties have long fueled nationalist, fascist and white-supremacist movements and often beget eugenicist agendas.
YEAH! extinction anxieties like:
The population bomb,
Silent Spring,
Global Warming,
Covid porn,
Yeah, damn those nationalist, fascist and white-supremacist movements.
Balfegor, that's a good way to put it.
What's bugging me, is that in so many other situations, people are told to just accept who they are, and that self-acceptance is the healthiest choice. But the current form of transgenderism seems like a rejection of acceptance. It rings similar to the excesses of pro-ana (pro-anorexia) and plastic surgery addiction.
If gender is a social construct fabricated by the wicked, evil Patriarchy in order to acquire and maintain unmerited control of all mankind, why on Earth would one mutilate ones body in order to conform to the evil Patriarchy's fabricated social construct?
remember the Olden Days?
when "They" said that boys could play with dolls? And girls could climb trees?
Everybody was Supposed to Realize; that Anyone could like Anything they wanted
Nowadays... How Long, before we tell nurses, that they have to wear skirts?
How Long, before we tell engineers, that they can't have breasts?
Think i'm making this up? Keep Watching!
Some, many societies tolerate the transgender spectrum. Some, many Americans have a fetish to normalize it under a Rainbow of inclusive exclusion (i.e. political congruence or "="). Meanwhile, the lion, lionesses, and their [unPlanned] cubs, a pride parade playing in gay abandon.
They’ve got bigger problems coming. They left B in their acronym far too long and now we’re organizing baby!! Me and all my white mates who have ever had a three-way or played “show me yours first” as a young boy or ever even brushed against another naked dude in a crowded locker room will simultaneously start identifying as bisexual. We want all the same rights and favorable treatment as full-time L and G and especially those certain T who really haven’t had sex with anyone they just want in the club. Well us B are gonna fucking run this damn club in a few months so enjoy your little bitch fight while you can.
“The men are them and the women are we.”
I think the first comment in Klompus’s link sums it up perfectly. “Oh Lord."
Are we in the Post-ironic Age - Where a homosexual special interest group can bemoan their impending extinction, and have it be a discussion about being replaced by another sexual perversion instead of a discussion about extinction from an absence of normal sexual reproduction?
If gender is a social construct
There has been a conflation of social constructs (e.g. clothing, career) and sex-correlated gender attributes (e.g. womb, lung capacity, skeletal-muscle physiology). The result has been a normalization of genderphobia, including: progressive confusion, dysfunction, and even mutilation.
"Lesbians are not a species, and we feed existing racist, ableist and homophobic agendas when we invoke extinction...."
Curious mode of argument.
I can almost imagine Joseph Goebbels saying, "[Jews] are not a species, and [they] feed existing racist, ableist and homophobic agendas when [they] invoke extinction...." Literally, a shut up and get on the train logic.
I think lesbians, women who are attracted to women, will always be lesbians. But being females, they are generally less aggressive and less confident and are raised to believe being nice to others or being perceived to be nice is of utmost importance. Women who are attractive to men and get a lot of attention and validation may be more self motivated but still are concerned what others think of them. Being called a bitch used to be shameful, now it is a source of pride, but either way the woman is validated by external forces.
How does this manifest? Lesbians are more likely to be manipulated into dating trans than any other group, gay or straight. If a lesbian has sex with a non surgically altered transwoman, i.e., one who still possesses a penis, can you still call that same sex attraction? No, because there is no such thing as a female penis. Women can own dildos but that doesn't make them men. The most aggressive transwomen activists who wish to dominate LGBTQ politics and redefine how we think and talk about sex can never entirely inhabit the female space or replace lesbians or heterosexuals.
I have searched diligently but have been unable to find a damn to give. Sorry.
PS, there are some lesbians who want to become men but most lesbians are very happy and comfortable being in female bodies. They are not going extinct.
Re: n.n.:
There has been a conflation of social constructs (e.g. clothing, career) and sex-correlated gender attributes (e.g. womb, lung capacity, skeletal-muscle physiology).
I think it's more confused than that, because a lot of the social constructs that make up the experience of being a woman or being a man simply don't apply to people who claim to be transgender. Biologically, of course, a male-to-female transgender isn't going to have the experience of going through puberty as a female -- having a period, developing female secondary sexual characteristics, etc. But there's a socially constructed dimension that they will never experience either. They're not going to have to deal with stigma of people treating menstrual bleeding as disgusting or unclean. They're not going to grow up getting catcalled by men on the street. Their parents aren't going to raise them with the subtly different expectations that may attach to women rather than men.
Indeed, their complaint, in many cases, seems to be precisely that people aren't giving them these socially constructed "female" experiences because people don't see them as female. But that leaves me with the question -- what on earth is transgender supposed to be? They're not female biologically. They're not female in the socially constructed sense either, as they've not gone through any of the socially constructed experiences that distinguish life as a male from life as a female. What else is there, they like makeup and dresses? That's just crossdressing!
Rather, it seems like they have an imaginary construct of what existence is like as the other sex and come to the firm belief that they ought to be that sex instead. But how could they know?
Greg The Class Traitor @ 12:47: "...That's because it was being used to destroy men's sports."
Better would be "That's because it was being used to destroy men." Certainly, under Obama and the detestable Catherine Lhamon at Dept of Ed, Title IX went from pretending to be about sports to being about running criminal. prosecutions aimed at any and all people at or near a campus who had ever offered a bad joke or a clumsy pass, and dragging them through viciously stupid and arbitrary "investigations" and "trials" run by biased amateurs with no possibility of appeal from life-destroying verdicts.
But I am a broken record on this topic. Sorry.
Balfegor @ 3:39: "...Rather, it seems like they have an imaginary construct of what existence is like as the other sex and come to the firm belief that they ought to be that sex instead. But how could they know?"
Excellent comment and IMHO you are correct, these people have an imaginary construct and are determined to live in it --and to make everybody else help them live in it. This is tyrannical madness but that doesn't stop them. Like all Progs they inhabit a world of make-believe and self-absorption, a world of their emotions. Feelings > data and THEIR feelings > everything else.
"I can't shake the feeling that the woke usage of "White" vs "white" brings us a real step closer to some future manifestation of eugenic cattle cars."
Wait. What? I thought we just -- like, a few months ago -- started capitalizing Black people to show how much their lives matter. But we left white people lower case, to show how privileged they are. Or something. Anyway. Now we are capitalizing White people to show how little their lives matter? OK, I guess that makes as much sense as any of this.
So anyway, if I understand correctly, these people -- the CherrÃe and the Aimee -- are concerned that lesbians might "become extinct" because no one wants to be a lesbian any more? Like, how is that a problem? Are they saying that we need to get some people who don't want to be lesbians to be lesbians anyway? I'm thinking I might be willing to be lesbian if someone paid me. Who do I get -- that is, who do I have to be lesbian with? Does she get paid too? To be lesbian with me?
Damn those nationalist, fascist and white-supremacist eugenicists for (checks notes) fighting to make women's lives better while not harming anyone else!
What evils will they commit next!?!
Jupiter said...
So anyway, if I understand correctly, these people -- the CherrÃe and the Aimee -- are concerned that lesbians might "become extinct" because no one wants to be a lesbian any more?
You might want to learn how to read.
They're concerned that any girl who in the past would have become a lesbian, will be bullied into coming out as a "trans male" instead. Might even get bullied into destroying her body and turning it into a fake male body, all because the trans lobby and it's enablers try to force any woman who isn't 100% girly to become "trans" instead.
Because apparently there's only one way to me a woman now, and having "masculine" pursuits is verboten for real women.
I’ve finally figured this out.
The problem is a lack of fresh meat.
It has to be embarrassing as shit to be a democrat or labour party member these days.
Howard,
Again, this is another cryptoscopic sampling blown up for your shadenboner pleasure. IOW, online porn for impotent INCELs.
Can a not-quite-17-years-married straight woman actually be an INCEL? don't know.
Re: Greg the Class Traitor:
They're concerned that any girl who in the past would have become a lesbian, will be bullied into coming out as a "trans male" instead. Might even get bullied into destroying her body and turning it into a fake male body, all because the trans lobby and it's enablers try to force any woman who isn't 100% girly to become "trans" instead.
I think "bully" is an overstatement. I think the concern is more that impressionable young children will be taught that those behaviours mean they're really the opposite sex, and then when they see a psychiatrist or a doctor those professionals will be bullied into taking the position that gender affirmation (or whatever they call it) is the only correct "scientific" response, and maybe they should be put on hormones to prevent normal puberty.
Before you even get into the disappearance of lesbians, this seems monstrous to me, but if you're a lesbian I can understand how it seems specially horrific, if only because you can probably look back at your own life and see the risk points where doctors might have started pumping you full of drugs.
my name goes here,
LGBTASDF will go away. It will soon be defined as LGT with the T laying claim to all of the other letters. Then the G will do what men have done throughout the ages, if they are ignored long enough they will go their own way. Make their own spaces. They can already vote, own guns and property, now they can marry and adopt, what more is there to fight for that would cause them to partner with the T group? Anyway, that will leave LT and between the straight women claiming to be L so they can look edgy to hetero men and the T laying claim to all of the dyke inspired activities there will not be any actual lesbians left in the L category.
A dire but, I think, pretty accurate summary of where we're headed. Sigh. I've said for a long time that the "B" in "LGBT" is already gone for all practical purposes; there may be (there are!) actual bisexuals, but they aren't permitted to exist except as a subject of "questioning." You can't actually like sex with both men and women; that's unpossible! You're just screwed up about what you "really" are. Which, since gays and lesbians have been hearing that basically forever, I hope convinces no one.
Re: Michelle Dulak Thomson:
Can a not-quite-17-years-married straight woman actually be an INCEL? don't know.
Incel has gone from a descriptor for a real social problem to a totally meaningless term of opprobrium. I mean, people are deriding the Atlanta massage parlour murderer as an incel when from what we know right now, he was a sex addict, which is literally the opposite problem.
Balfegor,
Before you even get into the disappearance of lesbians, this seems monstrous to me, but if you're a lesbian I can understand how it seems specially horrific, if only because you can probably look back at your own life and see the risk points where doctors might have started pumping you full of drugs.
Hell, I'm not even a lesbian, merely a "tomboy," and it scares the hell out of me, this redefining anything that smacks of "the male brain" in a woman as trans. My own parents are sensible people, despite being so far to my left that I can barely see there from here, and as they are also biochemists, I don't think they'd have gone for any of this BS. But what's the average parent to do when little Jill joins the math team and starts spending most of her spare time building model gliders?
Balfegor,
Not entirely sure that "sex addict" and "incel" are opposites; IIRC, incels are men that dearly want to get laid but can't, which is what the "in" (for "involuntary") is there for. But that they are men and not women I've always taken for granted. Also, that it's an insulting term for a psychological condition that subjects those having it to great distress. But that wouldn't bother Howard, of course.
Mike (MJB Wolf),
Me and all my white mates who have ever had a three-way or played “show me yours first” as a young boy or ever even brushed against another naked dude in a crowded locker room will simultaneously start identifying as bisexual. We want all the same rights and favorable treatment as full-time L and G and especially those certain T who really haven’t had sex with anyone they just want in the club. Well us B are gonna fucking run this damn club in a few months so enjoy your little bitch fight while you can.
I wish, actually, but I doubt it; bisexuals have been trodden on for so long by other, "woker" groups that I doubt they can compete now.
Amazing discussion. Much insight and wisdom about a crazy state of affairs. Thanks esp. to Balfegor and Michelle Dulak Thomson.
And prayers up for all the LGBTQABCDEF whatevers. The common element seems to be a crushing of those who are weak, uninformed, confused, otherwise vulnerable on issues pertaining to their sexual identity and attraction. In other words, an exploitation, a using, of the needy to serve some other agenda, to vindicate some personal point. Which IMHO is evil.
Bruce Hayden,
I much prefer how homosexuality is treated in rural MT - it’s ignored. Two guys or two gals want to get together, fine. Just don’t bother me with it. I don’t care. Funny thing is, that I have more gay and lesbian friends there, than I have ever had elsewhere.
Oddly, that's just how Florence King (who is bi, if a woman who has had relationships with men and women is bi) writes about the Deep South. Read When Sisterhood Was In Flower (in The Florence King Reader, if that's still in print). Apparently every town has its queers, who aren't shunned, merely sloughed off as "a bit different."
The novel has a character who everyone knows is a dyke, just as it has a character who is very "churchy" but not at all religious; at the end of the book, an Episcopal priest marries the woman he's been having sex with between the gowns in the robing room, while his wife is getting it on with "Babe" from the next town over. The dyke is married off to the other dyke, the priest marries his adulterous straight lover and inducts the churchy-but-not-religious acolyte into the Episcopal Church, and everyone's happy. (I'm oversimplifying a great deal, as the plot also contains too many other elements to attempt to summarize; suffice it to say that it's one of the funniest three or four books I've ever read anywhere.)
Before you even get into the disappearance of lesbians, this seems monstrous to me, but if you're a lesbian I can understand how it seems specially horrific, if only because you can probably look back at your own life and see the risk points where doctors might have started pumping you full of drugs.
Hell, I'm not even a lesbian, merely a "tomboy," and it scares the hell out of me, this redefining anything that smacks of "the male brain" in a woman as trans. My own parents are sensible people, despite being so far to my left that I can barely see there from here, and as they are also biochemists, I don't think they'd have gone for any of this BS. But what's the average parent to do when little Jill joins the math team and starts spending most of her spare time building model gliders?
It sounds a lot like what happens to young boys in school already. Rambunctious with and active imagination? Obviously you have ADHD and need medication so that you can sit still for eight hours.
Greg The Class Traitor,
Using Title IX to wipe out men's sports teams because there weren't enough women who wanted to play sports was an abomination.
Using Title IX to protect women's sports from men who want to destroy women's sports, OTOH, is perfectly reasonable
A perfectly reasonable interpretation of Title IX. Schools were put in a bind: Their big money-making sports (they didn't actually make money, most of the time, but they lost less money relative to their size than did most others) were for men, and incidentally also involved large teams. So furious efforts were made to interest women in sports, and when all of these failed, all the small, "niche" men's sports also had to go, for the sake of football and basketball.
But none of this ever resulted in as many women as men in sports on college campuses, b/c women, as a group, care less about sports than men do. Sorry.
So now the same Title IXers want to demolish the women's sports that are established, by letting transwomen compete. I hope this will make less difference than it looks like right now -- despite all the issue-prominence, transsexuals aren't actually all that numerous, and I doubt they're any more interested in athletics than a random swath of the college population. Still, it's a hot mess.
If gender is a social construct
There has been a conflation of social constructs (e.g. clothing, career) and sex-correlated gender attributes (e.g. womb, lung capacity, skeletal-muscle physiology). The result has been a normalization of genderphobia, including: progressive confusion, dysfunction, and even mutilation.
sex-correlated gender attributes including sexual orientation.
The difference between homosexuals and others in the transgender spectrum is that the former exhibit a stable reconciliation of body and mind, and, generally, socially-oriented constructs. What people notice is that some individuals exhibit a visible mismatch between sex and sex-correlated gender, a bias of trait(s) (e.g. voice, manner, stature) in males toward a feminine gender and females toward a masculine gender. Even in the transgender spectrum, couplets are equal and complementary.
This fresh meat crisis among real lesbians moves me almost to tears.
Ladies, what can I do to help?
English words with technical meanings often have non technical meanings too.
wildswan said...
At present it is fashionable to think that ethnics and Jews have always had an assured and comfortable place in the American social hierarchy. They did not. Before World War II eugenicists did not promote the idea that there was one white race. Most said there were as many white races as there were European nations - all - England, Germany, Spain, Portugal - in competition. But the most significant and the worst form of the initial racist eugenics centered on showing that there was a Great White Race - the Nordics - and there were Lesser White Races - the Alpine and the Mediterranean. This was what Madison Grant said and Hitler took up Madison Grant's ideas.
Roughly, Germans and English were Nordic and aristocratic; Alpines were peasants, inland in Ireland, France or the Austro-Hungarian or Russian empire; Italians and Greeks were Mediterranean and artistic. It was said by Madison Grant and the Anti-Immigration League that in the early years of the US the settlers were Nordics but that between 1890 and 1920 Lesser Whites - Alpines and Mediterraneans - began to flood and swarm in as well as Russian and Polish Jews. It was said that both were spawning children thus outbreeding the Nordics. The Immigration law of 1924 was intended to stop the influx of Lesser Whites and Jews. The black community which was present in America and could not be excluded by immigration laws, was excluded by segregation and marriage laws from the rest of the community. The ethnics and Jews overcame the racial prejudice against them especially by combat service during World War II; the black community was mainly excluded from this. So after the war among eugenicists race came to mean either the black or the white community (and the Hispanics, as Europeans, were counted in the white community as were the Jews for other reasons.) That is how eugenicists saw it. There were plenty of lesbians and homosexuals among the eugenic society members and they played starring roles in altering the English laws on homosexuality. These are facts and queer theory will be stronger if based on facts rather than ever-changing fashionable narratives.
I know for sure that if I were a man trapped in a woman's body, I'd be easy to spot: I'd be the woman feeling herself up as she walked down the street.
Michelle Dulak Thomson said...
So now the same Title IXers want to demolish the women's sports that are established, by letting transwomen compete. I hope this will make less difference than it looks like right now -- despite all the issue-prominence, transsexuals aren't actually all that numerous, and I doubt they're any more interested in athletics than a random swath of the college population. Still, it's a hot mess.
To be totally honest, part of me just wants to laugh and point. The majority of the people who will get screwed over by the Biden Admin "Transgender rules" voted Dem. So they deserve to get screwed, and I'm happy about that.
OTOH, I have hopes that some of them will pull their heads out of their asses as they observe the damage the Dems are doing to them.
But the issue is not actual "transwomen" taking over women's sports, the actual issue is men and boys who can't win competing against other men and boys, claiming to be "trans" so they can compete against, and beat, women and girls.
The fact that they get to go into the women's / girl's locker rooms and see them naked is just a bonus.
Then the G will do what men have done throughout the ages, if they are ignored long enough they will go their own way. Make their own spaces. They can already vote, own guns and property, now they can marry and adopt, what more is there to fight for that would cause them to partner with the T group?
Eliminating age of consent laws
But the issue is not actual "transwomen" taking over women's sports, the actual issue is men and boys who can't win competing against other men and boys, claiming to be "trans" so they can compete against, and beat, women and girls.
The fact that they get to go into the women's / girl's locker rooms and see them naked is just a bonus.
This is similar to the locker room / bathroom issue. Real transwomen tend to just go in, do their business and leave. But by making it mandatory to allow them to do so, you open the door for every whackjob, predator, and pervert who wants to get his jollies off.
"...transsexuals aren't actually all that numerous,"
Just one could likely dominate a wide range of sports, breaking most records held by women in women sports. If Kaitlyn Jenner hatched when Bruce was young, she could have won most of the gold medals in the Olympics for both men and women, so why have both.
Next, we can have perfectly healthy athletes compete in the Special Olympics too. After all, Isn't gender dysphoria a handicap?
A side benefit of all the LGBT brainwashing of young women is that it is a LOT easier to recruit young women for a threesome that includes one man.
Oso Negro may have been speaking tongue-in-cheek here, but I was just arguing this point with my husband today, in re "W.A.P." He said young women today actually want what this song says they want. It's my contention that this song and accompanying video and display at the Grammys, while they're supposed to be empowering to women somehow, are in fact simply illustrating what has been happening since the sexual revolution "liberated" women from every scrap of relationship currency they used to possess: women do what men want them to do, and pretend to like it even if they don't, because they are by and large still after what women are always after. Stable relationships. Children.
To get these things, you have to get the man firmly on the hook. To bait the hook, you used to be able to let the man get to, what, second base or so, whatever that meant, with the promise of lifelong homeruns once he put a ring on it. Now you have to be willing to do a 3-way with another woman your target man is also attracted to - on the second date, maybe the first. The sexual revolution dictated to women that they could no longer hold out, indeed no longer value, the one thing they had that men definitely wanted - they were "repressed" if they didn't seek to engage in as much, and the kinds of, sex that men did (or wanted to). And who wants to be "repressed"?
I told my husband there were plenty of second-wave feminists who swore off hetero sex altogether on the fish/bicycle principle. This was a misstep, I think. But a more harmful misstep is to believe what you're told when what you're told is that performative lesbian sex (or anal sex, or receptive face-f***ing, or whatever other acts women perform in popular male-oriented porn) that is not (or may not be) what you personally desire is a mark of your empowerment.
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