When do we get to bypass studying the factual details and legal standards and all the links in a chain of reasoning? When is it okay to just look at the whole thing and rely on instinct and just know that something is right or wrong?
The answer can't be: When it helps my side win.
People who liked Raskin's appeal to "common sense" — as opposed to "lawyers theories" — need to realize it's also the way Trump argued that he won the 2020 election. You just look at what you can see and feel what you feel.
And that's how Trump has been talking to his people all along. In your heart, you know he's right... or, in your guts you know he's nuts.
Bias has become the preferred form of reasoning. Better not get bogged down in lawyers theories. The other side is off and running.
Here's an article in by Sophia Rosenfeld in The Nation from 2017, "The Only Thing More Dangerous Than Trump’s Appeal to Common Sense Is His Dismissal of It":
Trump began his quixotic campaign for president as the embodiment of a familiar kind of right-wing, common-sense populism. Instead of deference to well-trained scientists, academics, journalists, and even governmental authorities, he touted the true wisdom of “the people.” In place of fancy studies built on research, data, and modeling, he promised plain-spoken, off-the-cuff reports on the state of our world and obvious, practical solutions to our problems.
That is, Trump suggested politics was actually quite simple if only one would rely on the kind of basic reasoning which emerges from just going about normal, everyday business using one’s senses and instincts and which—surprise, surprise—tends to run counter to “establishment” conclusions....
[T]he populist appeal to common sense was already a time-tested strategy to gain votes on the right... [W]hen asked about global warming, the smart move was to say that it had to be a hoax because we got a lot of snow last winter.... Common-sense truths require no further study to prove themselves correct—or so the theory goes. They are just things that everybody knows, and if they had any sense, would readily agree upon too.
This faith has a long American pedigree. In the 1980s, Ronald Reagan often promised “common-sense solutions” on issues from taxation to foreign policy, drawing on folksy aphorisms to make his points. He linked the idea to the founding fathers, and, in particular, to Thomas Paine, who had once promised, in defense of a then-radical cause, to give his readers nothing but “simple facts, plain arguments, and common sense.”
Trump, of course, eschews history. But when he announced that the solution to illegal immigration was building a very big wall along the southern border, it was clear that—the racism of the idea aside—he was speaking in this same faux-practical mode.... By undermining faith in traditional sources of intellectual authority, from the major news outlets to the National Institute of Health and the CIA, common-sense populists recast all those who participate in the “knowledge industry” as biased enemies rather than objective analysts working in the interest of the common good....
He has also, since well before he became a serious candidate for the presidency, refused to accept various realities even when provided with concrete, demonstrable evidence.... In George Orwell’s (once again best-selling) dystopian novel 1984, Big Brother and the Party are tasked with denying “the very existence of external reality” and telling you “to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears”—until such point as “the heresy of heresies was common sense.”
For even common sense—whose “biography,” Orwell’s contemporary Vladimir Nabokov once quipped, “makes for nasty reading”—still requires of its practitioners a certain kind of independence of thought, given its relationship to skepticism, or the ability to detect the lies and obfuscations of others...
Here's that Nabokov quote with some context:
In the fall of 1811 Noah Webster, working steadily through the C’s, defined commonsense as “good sound ordinary sense . . . free from emotional bias or intellectual subtlety… horse sense.”
This is rather a flattering view of the creature, for the biography of commonsense makes nasty reading. Commonsense has trampled down many a gentle genius whose eyes had delighted in a too early moonbeam of some too early truth; commonsense has back-kicked dirt at the loveliest of queer paintings because a blue tree seemed madness to its well-meaning hoof; commonsense has prompted ugly but strong nations to crush their fair but frail neighbors the moment a gap in history offered a chance that it would have been ridiculous not to exploit.
Commonsense is fundamentally immoral, for the natural morals of mankind are as irrational as the magic rites that they evolved since the immemorial dimness of time. Commonsense at its worst is sense made common, and so everything is comfortably cheapened by its touch. Commonsense is square whereas all the most essential visions and values of life are beautifully round, as round as the universe or the eyes of a child at its first circus show.
193 comments:
The answer can ONLY be: When it helps my side win.
fify
ALL that matters is helping the party
"All within the party, nothing outside the party, nothing against the party."
LONG LIVE BIG BROTHER!
The ingredients for the lynch mob, Trump is the N-word. We don't need no stinkin' evidence.
Now we'll get to see an anti-common sense President in action, just as Rosenfeld apparently wants. Hurrah for deference to journalists! Hurrah for the intellectual authority of the CIA!
Rosenfield’s article is one of the stupidest things I have read in a long time.
Hillary's how many thousand felonies? Nah "no intent". America's most prolific felon - the role model for little girls.
Nabakov was an aristocrat. He believed that some people are better than others, and that these people should, of course, lead society in the political realm as well as the arts.
Rosefeld is, presumably, a small-d democrat.
Populism is just another word for democracy. If common sense can't inform the people well enough to manage political affairs (like setting limits on carbon emissions), How can it serve to choose people who are well enough informed to manage public policy?
Oligarchy is the rule of the many by the few. In all its forms, it tends towards aristocracy, the rule of the many by a few who are a closed group and with greater legal rights than the many. Oligarchy can be said to be the natural state of human governance. It is no more progressive than the Roman senate.
I cannot make any sense out of how you view Trump, prof.
I was attracted to and voted for Trump because he addressed specific policies, most importantly border and immigration law, but also freedom of speech and association. To be blunt, I also voted for him to send the message that whites, particularly white men, have as much right to advance their political and economic self-interest as any other group.
He promised and delivered on keeping the U.S. out of pointless wars.
GOP voters had been hungering for decades for a candidate to address these issues. Every time we thought we had found a candidate to address these issues, he betrayed us.
You remain completely lost, and totally wrong, in your assumptions about Trump voters. I’ll give you credit. You’ve tried to be fair, but you are still five years later completely in the dark about why people like me embraced and supported him.
Politics isn’t about expertise. It’s about people with competing self-interests advancing their own. You’re quite ruthless in this regard. You were born rich and well placed (which I don’t begrudge), yet you’ve latched on to the feminist bitch as if you really had one.
Trump does have expertise, but of a kind that is invisible to a member of the mandarin class like you. He knows how to run and manage a business at a high level. This never penetrates with you because you are obsessed with identity politics. You literally see the presidency as a rotating trophy for the next “oppressed” identity politics clan.
When is it okay to just look at the whole thing and rely on instinct and just know that something is right or wrong? The answer can't be: When it helps my side win.
Except it always is. Always. (Especially when you ask people who consider themselves better than you, because they got elected and you didn't.)
Isn’t the Constitution lawyers’ theories; especially that whole First Amendment thing?
I hold the Dems in utter contempt.
Instead of deference to well-trained scientists, academics, journalists, and even governmental authorities, he touted the true wisdom of “the people.”
IMAGINE! instead of showing "deference" to our betters, the "well-trained" scientists,
the academics, THE JOURNALISTS!!!! (who are SO MUCH BETTER than us; that they have BY LINES!),
and even governmental authorities(!); people think that THEY, the people(!) should have some say
GOOD GOD! WHO, the hell! do these people think they ARE? Whose country IS this, anyway?
when he announced that the solution to illegal immigration was building a very big wall along the southern border, it was clear that — the racism of the idea aside — he was speaking in this same faux-practical mode
How smart people like Sara Rosenfeld think.
ST:
Harsh re Althouse with lots of speculation and assumptions by you.
Well, now that science has been twisted so far it no longer has any basis in real science, and history can be perverted every time the government switches parties, there is no "truth" anymore. Before they're born, babies are just a "clump of cells" even when they have arms, legs, and beating hearts. Lawyers have argued that. There's no such thing as verifiable biological sex anymore. Neither chromosomes nor gentitalia can be used to classify a human as being one sex or another. Lawyers have argued for that. Thousands of years of one group of people enslaving another, often people of the same race, but only white people are guilty of being slave owners and should make restitution. Lawyers have argued that. I'm not sure lawyers have much common sense.
Trump's genius was take the establishment's common sense and use it against them, which by the establishment's reaction to Trump has allowed us all to see how we all get played every day by the establishment.
America is so fucked up that Donald Trump and Glenn Greenwald are/were effectively political allies on Twitter.
"building a very big wall along the southern border, it was clear that—the racism of the idea aside...".
When the science is on your side, claim science!
When science is not on your side, claim science anyway!
When nothing is on your side, claim racism!!!
Let me add that the incredible managerial success that Trump produced in the first three years of his term seemed to make zero impression on you.
How did that happen? Do you think it was just accidental or magical?
No, it was the result of his expertise in an arena that you don’t understand, don’t care about and have no experience in.
The Democrats saw that managerial success clearly, and engaged in a year long campaign of psy-ops and sabotage to destroy it. This was the real rigging of the election.
Instead of deference to well-trained scientists, academics, journalists, and even governmental authorities
I see "well-trained", and I think, "Top. Men."
Thinking about another impeachment trial: Thomas Wentworth, 1st Earl Strafford, by Parliament in March 1641. He was convicted and executed.
The standard for treason conviction treason was clear: An identifiable treasonous act corroborated by two independent witnesses. There was none such. Strafford was a loyal servant of Charles I with a performance history than deeply rankled the Roundheads.
IIRC someone in Parliament remarked to the effect "You do not have to count the inches to know if a man is tall." That is, you do not need a definable trail of evidence to know if the man is guilty. (Strafford was a tall man.)
Ultimately, he was convicted on the basis of a statement he made at a Privy Council meeting, probably taken out of context.
So - yes, let us not get caught up in what Law actually applies here. Just get on with the trial and execution.
when he announced that the solution to illegal immigration was building a very big wall along the southern border, it was clear that — the racism of the idea aside — he was speaking in this same faux-practical mode
Not a solution, but one predicate, actually.
In place of fancy studies built on research, data, and modeling, he promised plain-spoken, off-the-cuff reports on the state of our world and obvious, practical solutions to our problems.
Like doubling the federal minimum wage and solar-powered transportation?
If the Democrats has just gone all the way — impeached him for being orange — Republicans would have had to admit they were right and voted to convict.
To do otherwise would have been to deny reality.
Too many Republicans were focused on the facts to consider the context in which they were being evaluated.
At least one found newfound Constitutionality in a previously unconstitutional event.
An appeal to common sense. I guess the idea is to get people to defer to the part of their brains that still thinks it's living in the savanna in a hunter/gatherer band of 20 to 100 people.
'Quixotic' is not an adjective to describe Trump. Quixotic more aptly describes the lunatic ravings of the Left.
Intellectuals rely on common sense to claim their position. It's best to praise elitism with that in mind. The branch you're standing on is important too.
If we don’t have the Rule of Law in this country, then we have nothing.
Nothing screams 'common sense' like promoting transgenderism.
Common sense is a very bad way to judge.
For examples common sense says 2+2 = 4. Every stinking time.
Common sense says burning out, looting and mobs controlling several square blocks of cities are not signs of a "mostly peaceful" protest.
Common sense says don't open our borders to anyone that shows up is a good idea.... anytime. But especially in the midst of what is billed as the greatest pandemic in a century.
And on and on...
Ignoring standard legal procedures is the only way impeachment got as far as it did. Read the House Managers Brief, and you'll repeatedly see them asserting that things are obvious, common sense, they need no deliberative process, that the Congress can impeach people if they feel their expression makes them unfit for office, etc.
Raskin is just a stupid man, and that's a cold, hard fact.
By the way, why is there no effort to impeach George Washington. Apparently it does not matter that he's been out of office for a while. The dude owned SLAVES!
If you don't impeach him you are a SLAVERY denier!
BUMBLE BEE said...
Hillary's how many thousand felonies? Nah "no intent". America's most prolific felon - the role model for little girls.
THIS!! Why have laws when SOME are above them all??
"It helps my side win" only because women are the audience and they vote. No other standard will appear until that changes.
Incentives.
"by undermining faith in traditional sources of intellectual authority, from the major news outlets to the National Institute of Health and the CIA, common-sense populists recast all those who participate in the “knowledge industry” as biased enemies rather than objective analysts working in the interest of the common good...."
Gee, I wonder why anyone would ever doubt those trusty people.
All the blahering about common sense plus the incessant ranting about 'conspiracies'- both of which began two seconds after theft was observed, with no time for investigation- lead me to believe they stole it and got away with it...
That's what common sense tells me.
"America is so fucked up that Donald Trump and Glenn Greenwald are/were effectively political allies on Twitter."
-- During Trump's presidency, there was a lot of "God, don't force me to defend this guy," moments.
In poker it is called a bluff. In grifting it is called the long con.
Congress was the victim. Their common sense is not the same as those not there, even if the others were horrified by the event. He played to the victim’s POV. It’s one reason why this trial was effectively unreasonable from the start.
THIS is common sense. https://twitter.com/i/status/1360847145830612993
Van der Veen demolished the liar from CBS.
Paine was under sentence of death. He escaped the guillotine only by chance. He never lost his belief in the French Revolution though.
One needs to ask who is bringing the tyranny...
If you want to know about women's influence on politics and reason, ask an expert.
I don't suppose common law will be coming back soon either, with experts doing it.
I love Van der Veen. He told the CBS liar off really good, and she couldn't handle it. The BACKLASH against the Pravda media has begun...
Collins was very thorough in her reasoning to support Kavanaugh for SC. She did a lot of research and threw out false, misleading and uncorroborated information. In deliberating her vote in this trial, she did not exercise the same degree of care. It’s a shame.
Trump guilty: I'm furious! It was an insurrection. Now that we got Trump we need to hunt down his supporters and destroy them! For unity!!
Trump acquitted: I'm furious! Trump may have gotten away with it, now it's time to hunt down his supporters and destroy them! For unity!!
@ wendybar
DESTROYED
This is good. Reminds me that I intend to reread "The Dumbest Generation - How the Digital Age Stupefies Young Americans and Jeopardizes Our Future" (Mark Bauerlein, 2008). This "journalist" is exhibit A.
“ If we don’t have the Rule of Law in this country, then we have nothing.”
Nothing but individual personal hubris - pride, in the CS Lewis sense. And ‘pride cometh before the fall.’ Every conversation - every situation - is corroded by its effects. It is a damning sin, speaking literally, because it stops learning and progress. A proud person can’t listen to others because to a proud person, to do so would be an admission that others are equal or better than them. A proud person can’t learn because to change their views would to them be an admission that they were previously wrong. A proud person won’t allow themselves to see all the facts because some facts may seems to weaken their position and threaten their sense of goodness or correctness.
Anytime a person measures “how they are doing” or “how good they are” by comparing themselves to other people, it leads to their seeking to increase the number of people ‘below’ them. That causes enmity between them and others. They can’t love others, because they inwardly want others to ‘go down’ below them. Love causes us to seek to life others above ourselves. A proud person won’t do that because they think it would diminish their own value and worth. People with pride live an endless, tireless struggle for esteem. The way out is to compare themselves only against their former selves and against their aspirations to live by principal. But history shows that the end result of a society that becomes too proud it’s not pretty. But there’s still hope. We can still choose to individually humble ourselves.
Trump abandoned common sense when he repeatedly held rallies of thousands of shouting people seated right next to each other during
a pandemic. Such a blatant exhibition of bad judgement could not go unrewarded.
Shouting Thomas wrote: You remain completely lost, and totally wrong, in your assumptions about Trump voters. I’ll give you credit. You’ve tried to be fair, but you are still five years later completely in the dark about why people like me embraced and supported him.
Maybe she just doesn't like us.
All castigations of common sense are nonsense.
One thing that those who are ostensibly conservative or even "centrist" who are critical of Trump's outrageous "style" fail to realize is that his approach may have been the only way to break through the curtain imposed by the "credentialed" on basic "common sense" political discourse.
Maybe at this point he has convinced enough of us of that the swamp needs to be fought on every front, that a stylistically less outrageous leader can take up the mantle (with his support). I am not sure who that is--but the "credentialed" are back with a vengeance-and with vengeance on their minds.
The key is to deny the self-proclaimed legitimacy of the "credentialed"--if you play their game, you lose. Every time.
alan markus said...
@ wendybar
DESTROYED
This is good. Reminds me that I intend to reread "The Dumbest Generation - How the Digital Age Stupefies Young Americans and Jeopardizes Our Future" (Mark Bauerlein, 2008). This "journalist" is exhibit A.
2/14/21, 8:03 AM
Exactly. He actually put the media on notice...We aren't blind and dumb to what the left does....but the media is...otherwise they are complicit.
I knew Raskin was a loser when I heard Laurence Tribe praise him on Megyn Kelly's podcast as a brilliant student--not up to BHO--but brilliant.
>This is a legal process after all.
It most certainly was not a legal process. It was 100% political.
Common sense is all very well in practice, but it doesn't work out in theory.
"...otherwise they are complicit."
They are complicit. Think of all the unithink in media messaging in the last five years. Journolist lives!
The Dumbest Generation - How the Digital Age Stupefies Young Americans and Jeopardizes Our Future" (Mark Bauerlein, 2008)
I assume it's on Kindle.
The media isn't complicit, it's the prime actor. They're after eyeballs to sell to advertisers.
Who tunes in every day, news or no news? Soap opera women.
So long as there is soap opera.
Everything works by the logic of soap opera. That includes experts who want to rise.
Instead of deference to well-trained scientists, academics, journalists, and even governmental authorities, he touted the true wisdom of “the people.”
"We the people....", not "we the scientists, journalists, and bureaucrats..."
Snidely Whiplash may have tied Little Nell to the railroad tracks, but he never grabbed her pussy.
Trump is a step beyond.
Just thinking like a woman.
The trick in actual expertise is to reduce stuff to common sense, not to claim exemption.
"Eric the Fruit Bat said...
An appeal to common sense. I guess the idea is to get people to defer to the part of their brains that still thinks it's living in the savanna in a hunter/gatherer band of 20 to 100 people".
Yes. I was about to post that common sense is good for the dinner table or driving and parking in a field at a church picnic. The folly of attempting to scale that up to even a medium sized country is an excellent argument for federalism and the rule of law.
JAORE said...
..."For examples common sense says 2+2 = 4"...
I would call that common knowledge, a distinction worth making.
Amadeus 48 said...
"...otherwise they are complicit."
They are complicit. Think of all the unithink in media messaging in the last five years. Journolist lives!
2/14/21, 8:13 AM
Listen to the twitter link I posted up above, and listen to Michael Van der Veen tell the CBS reporter exactly that, whilst she tries to shift the blame to Trump over and over and over again...but he DID NOT take her bullshit.
Is Michael van der Veen going to be on the ballot?
That was refreshing.
By the way, if a lawyer alters evidence, the sanction is loss of the case, generally followed by a fine, disbarment or suspension, and the well-earned contempt of his or her colleagues, judges, and the public.
The press just cheers the lying, despicable House Managers on.
well-trained scientists, academics, journalists, and even governmental authorities
I honestly can’t think of a group, on the whole and described in this way, I would trust less to make important decisions that affect me an my family. On an individual basis, I will pick and choose .....using my common sense. When lefties insist that we defer to their experts, that’s how we get more Trump.
- Krumhorn
Common Sense is deplorable. It's Aristocrat Sense you should listen to. Our only hope is to rely upon those exalted creatures gifted with Aristocrat Sense. Obviously these fonts of wisdom will be properly credentialed. If their status happens to have been recently revoked, don't listen to them anymore.
Ms. Rosenfield's "In deference to experts" comment disregards the fact that every single one of these academics, scientists, think tanks etc. are all subject to the control of who is providing their living. Human nature portends greed and the selling of ideals for financial gain regardless of truth. If nothing else Donald Trump exposed the entire system on how ugly it really is. Common sense dictates the realization that what is happening in this time of history is wrong and harmful to the worlds peoples. Common sense also suggests a thought out and measured plan of action to combat the tyranny being foisted on us exposed by the President.
The idea that Trump won because of "feelings" is why the GOPe is a truly preposterous animal. If anything, Shouting Thomas is far too kind to Althouse: comparing Trump's performance on nationalist issues to either Bush, the Republican Party will be quite fortunate if its mandarins can walk down the street without being pelted with eggs.
The real President had the best performance of a Republican candidate ever. He actually got more votes than 2008 Obama. The idea that Biden had a record-shattering performance is preposterous. If it was remotely true, his campaign staff would be lionized as the heroes of a generation, and you wouldn't need a shadow cabal of New York elites bragging in Time Magazine about their election theft. Biden's Potemkin rallies were so laughably inept that the average teenager isn't naive enough to believe in his popularity. You'd have to be a Boomer who still believes in Woodstock.
So common sense is to be despised except as applied to gun control.
"'When is it okay to just look at the whole thing and rely on instinct and just know that something is right or wrong? The answer can't be: When it helps my side win."/Except it always is. Always."
You just need to grasp the sense in which I'm saying "The answer can't be." I have asked the question. I anticipate the answer, which is the one you gave. But I excluded that answer. I reject that answer as unacceptable, and it is obvious why it is unacceptable. The implication is you need to answer my question and I know what you are thinking of saying and you know damned well that you're wrong if you want to JUSTIFY the behavior with that answer, so you need to come up with something else or admit that the answer to the question "When is it okay to just look at the whole thing and rely on instinct and just know that something is right or wrong?" is that it is never okay.
I think people get that, but I could be a lot more verbose and put stuff like the above into the original post. I hope you understand that I CHOOSE not to do that and that it's certainly not that I haven't thought of the thing that you are saying. I thought of it and intentionally excluded it. The unstated argument is that I think that's what people are doing and I want them to wake up and see that they are wrong. OF COURSE, I know that they probably won't and that this will go on anyway most of the time. But there is some hope. Your saying it will always happen is completely cynical, and if I was that cynical, I wouldn't waste my time writing about it.
Even today, Trump would get thousands more people at his rally than Biden would at his.
When do we get to bypass studying the factual details and legal standards and all the links in a chain of reasoning?
Well, apparently when you are dealing with the "right" to kill your unborn child or marry someone who has the same genitalia as you.
When is it okay to just look at the whole thing and rely on instinct and just know that something is right or wrong?
When it benefits the Left and hurts the Right of course.
The answer can't be: When it helps my side win.
Why not? It's been working for the Left for decades. You support the idea yourself when you promote emotionalism over reason.
Didn't you rely on instinct when you attacked Sandmann? Didn't you just know Kavanaugh was guilty despite the transparency of the lies against him?
Maybe "common sense" like "reality," is a word that should only be written with quotation marks. Raskin is using "common sense" to connect with the American radical legacy of Thomas Paine, and also to appeal to pragmatic Republicans who liked the phrase "common sense reforms." The obvious problem with his remarks is that emotionality and exaggeration are also enemies of "common sense." The idea that guys in horned helmets and Chewbacca suits could overthrow the US government is a more outlandish theory than anything Trump's lawyers could possibly come up with. This truly is "The Death of Common Sense," as the title of a recent book about how lawyers, litigation and red tape are "suffocating America" put it.
Rubenfeld's article has those improvised rhetorical devices, little Easter eggs or booby traps that indicate to readers how she feels about what she says: "the racism of the idea aside," "faux-practical," "objective analysts." Little asides that indicate to those who agree with her that she's on their side and to those who don't that she is the enemy. I could see rewriting her article in a less polemical form and taking into account all that happened since 2017 in a way that would receive greater approval from both sides, if everybody wasn't looking for those little pokes and nudges that confirm which side one is on.
There is a role for "common sense" in politics but it can't be the be all and end all, the answer to all the country's problems. "Common sense reform" ought to be a middle way, something that isn't too highly ideological or too captive to the Washington consensus, or too knee-jerk partisan, or too closed off from debate and evidence, or too populist and emotional.
Good post Althouse, and it goes both ways. I felt instinctively that it was unconstitutional to impeach Trump after he left office. Turns out, that's not a great argument as related to US history. Secretary of War, William Belknap, was impeached after leaving office in 1876.
The better argument was whether the House had done enough investigation prior to approving the Articles of Impeachment such that the Senate should have wasted its time. With the impeachment trial over; we still don't know who killed Ashli Babbitt and why. We don't know the cause of death of Officer Sicknick. We have little information of what the US government beyond Trump knew of an impending attack. We don't know who placed pipe bombs at the RNC and DNC, but we do know it was wrongly reported those bombs were placed at the Capitol. These are important pieces of information that we don't know, yet the first trial is already over. Shame on the House for not conducting a thorough investigation prior to rushing for judgement.
Instead, we now have a situation in which asking supporters to fight is consider incitement to violence, such that every HS pep rally is now illegitimate. Material support of violent offenders, such as paying for their bail across the board without consideration of the arresting crime, is considered peaceful. And while Pelosi has turned the streets of DC into a Green Zone and areas outside the wire; the actual homes of legislators are attacked on a near nightly basis. Emotions are high, and those who just gained power are doing nothing to calm those emotions.
If you want to do X, it would be ‘common sense’ to promote policies which achieve X.
Quoting common sense as a de facto standard to ensure our liberties, or what is right, is utterly meaningless.
With Ante-Fa - it is about "but it helps my side win"
I know this is all important but what’s is going on with Ted Cruz’s haircut? Is he trying to look hip?
Sophia Rosenfeld starts her article by asking, "How do we know if something is true? Our options are limited."
My immediate answer was that we know by the evidence of our senses. And/or the evidence of facts present. Her answer was "We can place our trust in experts, institutions, and publications that, governed by some form of peer review, promise the results of patient study and methodological rigor. Or we can depend on answers derived from our own lived experience."
I find it interesting that she listed first that we can place our trust in experts, institutions, and publications...". She wrote this for a feature magazine article. She had time to think about it, and decided that this was the correct answer and what she wanted to put forth. If there is anything we have surely learned over the past 20 or so years, it is exactly that our 'experts' are not expert at all. Our Institutions are corrupt, as our the publications that they spawn. None of them are clean of influence, narrative peddling, and corruption of 'facts'.
The importance of discerning between actual facts and not those statements masquerading as fact because there is mass polling on it's side, or large viewership is the battle we fight every day. To think that your argument is backed up because you cry out "Science!, is preposterous. So many of us are weary of listening to what is clear bullshit being presented to us as known fact. She bemoans a proper lack of "deference to well-trained scientists, academics, journalists, and even governmental authorities, he touted the true wisdom of “the people.”
Yes. As William F. Buckley stated more than once, "I'd rather be governed by the first 2000 people in the Boston telephone directory than the 2000 members of the Harvard faculty." It's not because the faculty at Harvard are not bright people. But first- they are people. They carry with them all the shortcomings of humans. But they are much worse in one respect: Those engaged in the business of being 'expert' will tend to think as a pack. They want their opinions to be well received, grants to be bestowed, name recognition and TV time. The individual on the street has neither the time or inclination to think like that.
What Trump did was to raise a middle finger to the so-called experts, and he found people to work with him who thought outside the box. Those who voted for him knew he would do this and it is exactly WHY they voted for him. In our Guild Society, those who run The Guild will not allow that. That cannot be allowed, so the word is passed down and all members of The Guild behave accordingly.
What the House Managers presented was not 'common sense' in any form. It was a mix of fact and fiction, emotion and hate, masquerading as the all powerful undeniable truth. Again- our experts, institutions, and publications failed us, and only put a further abyss between much of the population and our trust in those 'pillars' of our society.
In summary: To Democrats, the end always justifies the means. Rule of Law has no place in their agenda unless it can be applied to their adversaries.
“Common sense” does not have a static content; it is not a static set of beliefs. Common sense learns. Evidence and experience (and especially experienced evidence) inform common sense. For example, common sense has learned to trust the scientific method insofar as the scientific method involves reproducible results and accurate predictions, However, common sense knows that trusting the scientific method is not the same as trusting the motives or the political opinions of people who have trained as scientists.
Democracy as a political system gives power to common sense, and it does so on purpose in the belief that common sense is, on the whole, the least bad repository of that power.
rhhardin said...
The Dumbest Generation - How the Digital Age Stupefies Young Americans and Jeopardizes Our Future" (Mark Bauerlein, 2008)
I assume it's on Kindle.
2/14/21, 8:14 AM
[snort!] glad I wasn’t drinking coffee!
Common sense has no place in total war.
TOTAL WAR is what the left, with their ally the Democrat Party, has been waging.
They are demanding a Carthaginian Peace.
Nothing less. My response,"NUTS."*
*General Anthony McAuliffe 1944.
Appealing to "Common Sense" and "It's intuitively obvious" were the last ditch arguments of our high school debate team. We resorted to these replies when we were caught trying to make a point without adequate reasoning or evidence. Who wants to admit they do not have the common sense or intellect to agree with the argument put forward?
Glad to see our high school "B" debate team was using the intellectual techniques of the lead impeachment manager.
Appealing to "Common Sense" and "It's intuitively obvious" were the last ditch arguments of our high school debate team.
Mine was nuclear tipped bullets. It worked too.
.
"By undermining faith in traditional sources of intellectual authority, from the major news outlets to the National Institute of Health and the CIA,
Stunning to see a publication such as The Nation complain about someone undermining the authority of the CIA
Funny to listen to you all talk about logic and facts over feelings when you are willing to accept without question the most outlandish claims about the last election. Over 60,000 persons underage voted in Georgia? Really? Absolutely no evidence for such a ridiculous claim and yet it's gospel in Trump circles.
For me it was strictly a vote on one issue: immigration. But I guess if you were not stuck in shitty schools in a place ruined by open borders it wouldn't mean anything to you.
Which would be our ruling class including our fancy reporters. They have no fucking idea what it's like, what we've gone through.
You all... you all... who used to say you all?
Lets prevent people from going to Florida, but allow all comers to the Southern border to walk right in. Now that's common sense.
My response,"NUTS."*
*General Anthony McAuliffe 1944.
____________________
Ah, perhaps the first "n-word," with the general self-censoring of his own language and thus leaving it unclear as to exactly what he was thinking.*
*Some historians say that he did not really say, "nuts," but said something else, something less family-friendly. But apparently others who knew his confirm that that is what he really said because he was not one to use profane language.
Titus said...
I know this is all important but what’s is going on with Ted Cruz’s haircut? Is he trying to look hip?
He's embracing his inner Grandpa Munster.
Trust our experts, institutions and publications? We approach our one year anniversary of "fifteen days to flatten the curve", and pedo Joe says masks to the end of 2021. From masks aren't necessary, to masks to when. That is the state of expertise? The steam on my glasses calls bullshit on your 'experts'.
You just need to grasp the sense in which I'm saying "The answer can't be." I have asked the question. I anticipate the answer, which is the one you gave. But I excluded that answer. I reject that answer as unacceptable, and it is obvious why it is unacceptable. The implication is you need to answer my question and I know what you are thinking of saying and you know damned well that you're wrong if you want to JUSTIFY the behavior with that answer, so you need to come up with something else or admit that the answer to the question "When is it okay to just look at the whole thing and rely on instinct and just know that something is right or wrong?" is that it is never okay.
Boy, you never tire of trolling your readership, do you? (I mean, an 83-word sentence? Geez.)
As I usually find with thoughtful people of the left, Sophia Rosenfeld's diagnosis of the risks of right-populism is quite good, IMO.
The problem, though, is the belief that the answer is to trust a government endorsed, if not outright mandated, technocratic elite—a technocratic elite, by the way, that Dwight Eisenhower warned us about in the paragraph immediately following his warning about the military-industrial complex. But this technocratic elite has been demonstrated to be relentlessly self-dealing (Hunter Biden, Ukraine, China), relentlessly over-optimistic at best about the validity of their "models" ("The econometricians, they're ever-so-pious. Are they doing real science, or just confirming their bias?", effectiveness of lockdowns, failure to balance public health across issues of disease, mental health, and economics), and relentlessly corrupt (RussiaGate, using the pandemic as an excuse to strip away ballot protections, picking political winners and losers in reopening).
It's as if Public Choice Theory didn't exist.
I would be keenly interested in a critique of right-populism from the Public Choice Theory perspective, as opposed to the increasingly hard left "government is the answer, and we'll make even suggesting an election process most of the world acknowledges is ripe for fraud might have resulted in fraud, if not outright illegal, at least a good way to lose your career" perspective of today's Democrat-media-big-tech complex.
Althouse: "I reject that answer as unacceptable, and it is obvious why it is unacceptable"
I suspect you will continue to vote into office the very advocates for that which you claim is "unacceptable". Over and over again.
Which will lead inevitably to an Inigo Montoya-like observation: You keep using that word, "unacceptable". I do not think it means what you think it means.
“Let’s not get caught up in logic and reason here...”
None of the Republicans justified their vote by saying he was guilty as charged, they all said he was guilty of something they never charged him with. So I guess the speech worked.
Sir Fartsalot, Eric Swalwell, asserts: “We could have called God herself and it would not have” swayed McConnell.
"When is it okay to just look at the whole thing and rely on instinct and just know that something is right or wrong?" is that it is never okay.
We’ve all witnessed information about events to change dramatically within the first few days of an event. This has happened so much that those of us with common sense wait to see how things play before rushing to judgment. The House Managers did not wait for these details to come forward. We’re still waiting for a lot more info to come out. Raskin played to the rush to judgment ethos of the victims, Congress in this case.
Your saying it will always happen is completely cynical, and if I was that cynical, I wouldn't waste my time writing about it.
Implicit in this comment is that the Democrats have been acting in good faith. If one applies “the other foot” test to these events and reversed the various parties, would we have arrived at the same place? I think it’s clearly no.
This was a Stalinist show trial intended to intimidate those who oppose the lefties. As someone else pointed out, you kill the chicken in order to scare the monkeys. This is how the lefties operate. Clinton was impeached for his provable perjury and obstruction of justice, and no Democrat voted to convict. In each Trump trial, no Democrat voted to acquit. In each case, it was Republicans (or Romney) who voted with the Democrats.
The system does not work when only one side, in good faith, tries to play by the rules. It is impossible to not be cynical when it comes to the lefties. Paybacks will be a mf’er...and there will be paybacks.
- Krumhorn
Deference to well trained academics? That brings to mind Dennis Prager's oft used phrase, "Some things are so stupid that only a PhD could believe them." And when the French express worry over where our academics are going--you know that something's wrong.
Could it just be that all of us have the God given right to decide what's best for us? The road to a living Hell is paved with American academician's good intentions.
Common sense is rooted in facts and plain reason. As such it is the enemy of nuance and the enemy of the narrative.
If critical race theory is to succeed we must eliminate so-called "common sense".
By the way, Tony Fauci and Barack Obama are both prone to use the phrase "it's just common sense". Is it time to cancel them?
"How do we know if something is true? Our options are limited." But if you don't use those options, you're just making shit up.
An easier question is, "How do we know if something is false?" We can tell that the 2020 election was suspicious in several ways, because we cannot follow an audit trail that verifies the validity of every vote in several key locations. It is false that the election was "flawless" and false that every vote was verfiably valid.
One tests for falsehood of the null hypothesis to determine the likely truth of a hypothesis. This only works for reality, however.
The system does not work when only one side, in good faith, tries to play by the rules. It is impossible to not be cynical when it comes to the lefties.
This, right here.
You have to have common sense to know what common sense is. Journalists, government scientists, university scientists, and career politicians are not selected for along this dimension called common sense, and if you don't understand this by the time you are 40 years old, you apparently never will.
Skeptical: Perhaps Prager was paraphrasing George Orwell who said, “Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.”
Common sense is based on reason, not instinct.
In the left/Dem/NeverTrump/Anti-Trump mind, the only evidence needed to be produced to prove guilt definitively was:
He is Donald Trump.
To them, his very existence is a crime. And in their psychopathic hate and animus, they cannot fathom why others do not immediately understand and agree with that.
"Trump, of course, eschews history."
It is the gratuitous insertion of such unsupported declarations, often irrelevant to the issue at hand, that declare the bias of the writer. Indeed it shows the writer as emotional and irrational, the writing not worth serious consideration, and the whole publication to be approached with especial skepticism.
That writers include and publisher allow such bullshit flags says much about the motives credibility author and publisher.
Over 60,000 persons underage voted in Georgia? Really? Absolutely no evidence for such a ridiculous claim and yet it's gospel in Trump circles.
I'd never heard that before. I don't know how you understand "Trump circles," but given the incompetence of Trump's Georgia lawyers I doubt it's "gospel" for any significant number of people.
The claims of the state and the media that the number was zero also aren't likely or something one could say with any certainty. I wonder if maybe Trump's lawyers confused underaged voters with their dead grandparents of the same name.
Raskin is slime- and that is direpectful to actual slime. He is a Democrat so slime is in the DNA.
McConnell's speech was trash. Some advice --
"There is no middle ground when taking the hill. You either stay in the foxhole or fight to the finish. Turning back just gets you shot in the back - and no one wants to finish as a coward."
Common sense tells me Trump did not incite an insurrection and no insurrection occurred. A protest occurred and some created a riot, broke into the Capitol but did not use guns, bombs, set fires, harm members of Congress and no attempt was made to overthrow the government. Their goal was to force transparency and actual investigations into what they believed were voting irregularities that had a major impact on the election for President of the United States. What they did was illegal and should be prosecuted. That’s common sense. In this case, the law, legal theory and common sense produce the same result. Not guilty as charged.
"BUMBLE BEE said...
Hillary's how many thousand felonies? Nah "no intent". America's most prolific felon - the role model for little girls."
Not any more. That would be Kamala Harris. Proof to all little girls that if you fuck and suck up to the right powerful men you can accomplish anything!
Beliefs are an amalgam of facts, narrative, and truth.
The House had a narrative that Trump incited an insurrection.
One of the key facts they cited was Trump's use of the word "fight".
Trump's lawyer's rebutted with the fact that the term "fight" is banal in politics.
That seems to be the only substance to this procedure.
Truth is ambiguous; the cliche is that it has to be wrestled with.
Our politics is narrative driven. "Hands Up Don't Shoot"-narrative unrelated to the facts.
"There was no fraud in the election"-narrative. George Stephanopolous blocks Rand Paul from even bringing up the topic of election security.
Stolen election-narrative. Fortified election-narrative. Rigged election is closer to the truth, as a careful read of Molly Ball's article shows.
Our "betters" determine the narrative first. Any facts presented are curated. As for the truth-it might as well not exist.
Jonathan Haidt suggests that there are two approaches to uncovering truth.
In the scientific method, one posits a hypothesis (H1) that is superficially consistent with the known facts, and then proceeds to collect data to try to disprove that hypothesis. If data is found that it is inconsistent with H1, that leads to formation of a second hypothesis, and attempts to disprove that are undertaken. But the idea that one's initial hypothesis is wrong is a central part of this approach.
In the intuitive approach, one reaches a conclusion using intuition, and then proceeds to collect data that supports that conclusion, or means of presenting the conclusion that are more persuasive. But the intuitive approach never entertains the possibility that the initial conclusion can be wrong; only that the arguments in favor of the conclusion can be strengthened. Any evidence that seems inconsistent with the conclusion must be ignored or ridiculed.
"People who liked Raskin's appeal to "common sense" — as opposed to "lawyers theories" — need to realize it's also the way Trump argued that he won the 2020 election. You just look at what you can see and feel what you feel.
And that's how Trump has been talking to his people all along."
Yep. It's almost like all those photos and videos of poll watchers being excluded from midnight vote counts and obviously faked signatures and all the other nonsense that occurred never really existed at all and that those who disputed the integrity of the election did so based on their feelz alone.
Ayn Rand covers all of this in Atlas Shrugged. In fact, I’m afraid to go back and reread Atlas Shrugged for fear it’s even more actuate than I remember.
And that's how Trump has been talking to his people all along. In your heart, you know he's right... or, in your guts you know he's nuts.
I am better at Math than Trump.
I know more about how computers work than Trump.
I may or may not know more about auditing practices than Trump. But I know enough.
It is pretty fucking obvious if you look at the 2020 election using actual observations and logic fraud happened. This is a stupid analogy.
I didn't listen to Trump at all. I think he fucked the whole thing up because he didn't really understand these systems.
Enlighten-NewJersey said...
Common sense tells me Trump did not incite an insurrection and no insurrection occurred. A protest occurred and some created a riot, broke into the Capitol but did not use guns, bombs, set fires, harm members of Congress and no attempt was made to overthrow the government. Their goal was to force transparency and actual investigations into what they believed were voting irregularities that had a major impact on the election for President of the United States. What they did was illegal and should be prosecuted. That’s common sense. In this case, the law, legal theory and common sense produce the same result. Not guilty as charged.
2/14/21, 9:58 AM
Well said.
Lurker21 -
My source is the 3 hour movie by the Pillow Guy - "Absolute Proof." It seems to me that there is some 300 lb guy in someone's basement just making up these numbers out of whole cloth. The movie is an embarrassment, the type of thing you would watch stoned in college. And yet it is supposed to convince objective observers who believe in facts and logic that the election was stolen? Can you understand how it may have failed in that objective?
Video at https://michaeljlindell.com/. See video at 8:03 (66,247 underaged children voted in Georgia)
My common sense says that most of the liberals commenting these days are full of dung.
Their opinions are full of
“Obviously Trump”
“Of course Trump”
“Trump constantly”
“Trump doesn’t care about”
“Without a doubt Trump”
“Everyone knows Trump”
“It is known”
Just a load of dung.
This post has been knocked out of the park. The only thing to add is, what if the House Managers had been successful? What if Republicans had given them what they wanted with such a low threshold of evidence? If this impeachment had become the new standard— then how easy would it be to take out a President from a party in the minority?
Shorter Raskin:
"C'mon, man! You know he lied about election fraud. You know he lost. You know he incited that riot. It's obvious. Admit it! Come on, man!"
C'mon sense.
Shouting Thomas said...
I cannot make any sense out of how you view Trump, prof.
I was attracted to and voted for Trump because he addressed specific policies, most importantly border and immigration law, but also freedom of speech and association. To be blunt, I also voted for him to send the message that whites, particularly white men, have as much right to advance their political and economic self-interest as any other group.
He promised and delivered on keeping the U.S. out of pointless wars.
GOP voters had been hungering for decades for a candidate to address these issues. Every time we thought we had found a candidate to address these issues, he betrayed us.
You remain completely lost, and totally wrong, in your assumptions about Trump voters. I’ll give you credit. You’ve tried to be fair, but you are still five years later completely in the dark about why people like me embraced and supported him.
Politics isn’t about expertise. It’s about people with competing self-interests advancing their own. You’re quite ruthless in this regard. You were born rich and well placed (which I don’t begrudge), yet you’ve latched on to the feminist bitch as if you really had one.
Trump does have expertise, but of a kind that is invisible to a member of the mandarin class like you. He knows how to run and manage a business at a high level. This never penetrates with you because you are obsessed with identity politics. You literally see the presidency as a rotating trophy for the next “oppressed” identity politics clan.
This needs to be repeated.
There are a lot of people refuse to understand what Shouting Thomas posted.
People like Ann vote for boyfriends, not elected representatives.
They do not understand people who look at how systems work and vote based on results.
Blogger Matt Sablan said...
Ignoring standard legal procedures is the only way impeachment got as far as it did. Read the House Managers Brief, and you'll repeatedly see them asserting that things are obvious, common sense, they need no deliberative process, that the Congress can impeach people if they feel their expression makes them unfit for office, etc.
Raskin is just a stupid man, and that's a cold, hard fact.
2/14/21, 7:43 AM
Or a grieving father looking for someone to blame for something. Given his attempt in 2016 to question the 2016 election legitimacy and the recent loss of his son, he was a poor choice for lead house manager.
By undermining faith in traditional sources of intellectual authority, from the major news outlets to the National Institute of Health and the CIA, common-sense populists recast all those who participate in the “knowledge industry” as biased enemies rather than objective analysts working in the interest of the common good...
The thrust of Sophia Rosenfeld's argument is basically anti-democratic. However, the history of priesthoods and aristocracies has demonstrated time and again that objective analysts working in the interest of the common good naturally devolve into self-interested elitist power centers and cabals whose concept of the "common good" is at odds with what the individual productive citizen perceives as the common good.
Matt Sablan said...
Ignoring standard legal procedures is the only way impeachment got as far as it did. Read the House Managers Brief, and you'll repeatedly see them asserting that things are obvious, common sense, they need no deliberative process, that the Congress can impeach people if they feel their expression makes them unfit for office, etc.
Raskin is just a stupid man, and that's a cold, hard fact.
Probably more evil than stupid.
It is the people that vote for him that are stupid.
Trump is our Akhenaten.
Thanks for posting the van der Veen cbs video. Dictionary example of being pwned. With the mic drop flourish at the end. Fantastic!!!
Blogger Matt Sablan said...
"America is so fucked up that Donald Trump and Glenn Greenwald are/were effectively political allies on Twitter."
-- During Trump's presidency, there was a lot of "God, don't force me to defend this guy," moments.
Agreed.
BTW, not trying to stalk you - you just made two points that were on my mind as well.
wendybar said...
THIS is common sense. https://twitter.com/i/status/1360847145830612993
Everyone does need to go watch this.
It isn't Trump on trial anymore.
It is our system that is on trial.
It is the Democrats and the Media trying to destroy our system.
“Outlandish lawyer theories” are not the same as “lawyer theories.” Rotten food is not the same as food.
Althouse is funny.
What if after a BLM riot in Kenosha Local Republicans could rush Kamala to trial and the judge and jury were all people who had their homes vandalized or burned down?
What if neighborhoods and small businesses across America who suffered from riots for months, during a pandemic were considered the equals of members of the House and Senate?
Then at least during this trial—Democrats had to pretend they care about law enforcement.
But do they? Who left the Capitol Police so outnumbered which looks even worse now since the House Managers revealed that they knew of attacks being planned in advance?
The Capitol Police are the employees of members of Congress/government and the hierarchy left them in the lurch. The Capitol Police should sue their employers and an investigation should be done to find out who ignored the advance warnings of an impending attack and left them in the gap for optics or reasons.
Spiros advice: "There is no middle ground when taking the hill. You either stay in the foxhole or fight to the finish. Turning back just gets you shot in the back - and no one wants to finish as a coward."
One must first identify what "hill" is being taken to assign a final verdict on behavior.
RoseAnne said...
Blogger Matt Sablan said...
"America is so fucked up that Donald Trump and Glenn Greenwald are/were effectively political allies on Twitter."
" -- During Trump's presidency, there was a lot of "God, don't force me to defend this guy," moments."
Agreed.
BTW, not trying to stalk you - you just made two points that were on my mind as well.
You two live in a dream world created by rough men.
Please stop resenting the rough men.
"Let's not get caught up in a lot of outlandish lawyers theories here."
Late to the party...
Did AA already catch this?
...lawyers' theories...
@Althouse, after reading your post, and especially after reading your comment at 8:36, I feel obligated to re-post my comment from last night’s cafe thread:
“I think Althouse — and Turley — talked themselves into believing Trump must be guilty, and the House impeachment managers blew it. This is irrational. Occam’s razor suggests to me that Trump is innocent and there never was any mens rea that could be proved. Althouse’s beloved Democrats were just playing a foolish and disgusting game that cost the House only a day or so of its time but cost the Senate much more than that. Neither Turley nor our blog hostess seems ready to accept that the invasion of the Capitol building itself was part of the game, using agent provocateurs,”
And I want to add that Trump’s common sense approach led to unprecedented low unemployment in 2018-2019. Working people saw real wage gains. Turns out that getting rid of regulations that basically made it difficult and expensive to hire people would result it higher employment and a booming economy. Common sense!
Once upon a time liberals like you, Professor, cared about people who are less well off than yourself. What in the Hell happened? When did it become acceptable for liberals like you to say “I’ve got mine so to Hell with anyone else”?
Achilles said...Everyone does need to go watch this.
A Twitter commenter points out that the newscaster didn't actually say "just a [insert doctored evidence]. But the doctored evidence IS a big deal for a legal proceeding and why isn't that the focus of the media attention?
It probably true that relying on instinct to believe something is often the case in political matters and, in particular, impeachment proceedings. In these cases what engages the power of instinct is an emotion. One does not have to look very far to identify this emotion. It is hatred, pure and simple.
Luke Lea said...With respect to enforcing our immigration laws in order to limit illegal immigration, wouldn't the commonsense solution be a biometric social security card with picture Id? That plus criminal prosecution of employers who fail to require showing it as a condition of employment?.
Illegal immigration is supported by the radical left and by the GOPe. I believe there is enough common ground between those extremes to form a middle ground if given a chance and reported on.
Observations about the "legality"of this impeachment and trial:
This was essentially a political process, not a legal process. The legal process would come about with an attempted enforcement of any sanctions imposed by the political process. The courts would be the forum for deciding whether Trump could run for office again or whether the trial and conviction of a private citizen constitutes a bill of attainder.
Alcee Hastings is enjoying his status as member of Congress after being impeached, convicted, and removed for taking bribes as a federal judge. He is a Democrat.
"Legality" could have come into play if Team Trump had challenged the process because of the absence of the Chief Justice--if the POTUS was impeached and was to be tried, where was the Chief Justice? The idea of Team Trump going for a writ of mandamus from SCOTUS to compel the Chief Justice to preside is amusing and would have led to a level of chaos undoubtedly satisfying to Trump. I would have liked to see how SCOTUS would dodge that one. Probably Roberts would have agreed to preside, but SCOTUS could have definitively killed the whole thing. Would anyone want that?
Also, in the absence of the Chief Justice, shouldn't Kamala Harris, the president of the Senate, have presided? Who was this Leahy guy? This was all political theater. They didn't want her fingerprints on this.
Secretary Belknap's impeachment and acquittal is carrying a heavy load here, particularly given the facts of that procedure. I even heard Larry Tribe on Megyn Kelly's podcast muddying the waters by saying "Secretaries of War" have been impeached after resignation. Um..err..that happened once, Larry, and he was acquitted because a lot of senators thought the post-resignation impeachment was improper.
With respect to enforcing our immigration laws in order to prevent illegal immigration, wouldn't the commonsense solution be a biometric social security card with picture Id? That plus draconian criminal prosecution of employers—meaning jail time and punitive damages -- who fail to require showing it as a condition of employment?
But of course the people who matter like things just as they are, including our current social security card made out of cardboard. They don't care that illegal immigration undermines enforcement of our wage and hour laws, hurting the least-skilled, most vulnerable segments of the workforce, African Americans above all.
Talk about systemic racism!
Gentlemen, gentlemen--Althouse is not your enemy, she is your hostess. Please show common courtesy. Insults are completely out of order.
Those must be some of them there fancy intellectual theories that complains about Russia and shuts down domestic energy production. Or that complains about income inequality but opens the doors to low wage immigrants.
chickelit said...
Achilles said...Everyone does need to go watch this.
A Twitter commenter points out that the newscaster didn't actually say "just a [insert doctored evidence]. But the doctored evidence IS a big deal for a legal proceeding and why isn't that the focus of the media attention?
The real story of this political "trial" was that democrats are trying to destroy our system by allowing false and fabricated evidence to be introduced into a clearly unconstitutional procedure.
The real story of this event is that a Constitutional Law Professor cannot see the damage being done to the SYSTEM.
The real story here is that the Democrats are turning our country into Mexico or any other banana republic where this kind of corruption is accepted as normal because it gets the right answers for the tribe in control of the proceedings.
Tom observes: Ayn Rand covers all of this in Atlas Shrugged. In fact, I’m afraid to go back and reread Atlas Shrugged for fear it’s even more actuate than I remember.
I re-read Atlas Shrugged a couple of years ago and 1984 last year. So shockingly predictive it's downright painful.
Amadeus 48 said...
Gentlemen, gentlemen--Althouse is not your enemy, she is your hostess. Please show common courtesy. Insults are completely out of order.
They are not insults.
They are disagreements.
There are always insults implied in disagreement. I acknowledge I could be better at disagreement. But do not try to duck the issue.
Democrats entered fabricated evidence into a court setting.
Democrats and the media are trying to normalize perjury in court and using fabricated data.
Ann is ignoring the damage being done and she is using incorrect analogies trying to paint us as emotionally compromised as she is because she comes from that emotional frame of mind and does not understand Systemic Arguments.
“During Trump's presidency, there was a lot of "God, don't force me to defend this guy," moments”
This comment is representative of the way a lot of people looked at Trump’s term.
Maybe at some point during that long string of obvious lies, coup attempts, conspiracies and deep state plots against a fairly elected president, this might have crossed your mind: “maybe I should fear Trump’s enemies more than him”.
The enemy of your enemy is your friend. The Deep State is your true enemy; Trump is their enemy, hence Trump is your friend. His tweets and his rough street-fighting style don’t really matter.
To such folks I would ask, how many examples do you need before that light bulb goes on?
Appealing to "Common Sense" and "It's intuitively obvious" were the last ditch arguments of our high school debate team.
[And Gahrie replies:]
Mine was nuclear tipped bullets. It worked, too.
That was one frustrating debate! I will maintain to my death that we won on the merits - but I can't deny that I could not come up with a response to your "nuclear tipped bullets" gambit.
"Common sense" is supposed to mean "First of all, does it pass the gut check?" (Of course a couple hundred unarmed people - or if armed, not using those arms even once - milling around inside the Capitol doesn't remotely pass the gut check for "These people plan to take over the government!" even considering that some of those people were beating on cops. What also doesn't pass a gut check is Trump supporters' beating on cops. It could have been Trump supporters, caught up in a bloody-vision mob moment, but it definitely doesn't pass a gut check and therefore requires investigation.)
But instead, "common sense" is used as the first quoted commenter above indicates: as a cover for not having evidence as well as a way to tar your opponent with the dreaded "lack of common sense."
Big Mike said
“ night’s cafe thread:
“I think Althouse — and Turley — talked themselves into believing Trump must be guilty, and the House impeachment managers blew it. This is irrational. Occam’s razor suggests to me that Trump is innocent and there never was any mens rea that could be proved. Althouse’s beloved Democrats were just playing a foolish and disgusting game that cost the House only a day or so of its time but cost the Senate much more than that. Neither Turley nor our blog hostess seems ready to accept that the invasion of the Capitol building itself was part of the game, using agent provocateurs,”
I think the point is missed. You must always see the politics involved when discussing anything Pelosi does, she is a snake. This was another chance to do damage to the Republican Party and it worked, pretty famously really. You give the GOPe one last bite a trump voters. Her partner McConnell gets to straddle the fence twice. Declaring twice that trump is guilty but voting to acquit. 7 Republican senators that will probably be primaries and their seats taken along with 14 congress members.
It was a stunning success. All the right propaganda outlets ( including FOX ) will tell you it was.
"In Closing, Raskin Quotes Thomas Paine: 'Tyranny, Like Hell, Is Not Easily Conquered'" —
We that woud explain why you are still a senator.
"When do we get to bypass studying the factual details"
When it suits prog purposes.
Is it common sense to believe that another Republican President who won in 2016 would have been treated fairly, honestly and respectfully by the media or the Democrats, or that they will do so with the next one?
Who's the dummy here?
You two live in a dream world created by rough men.
Please stop resenting the rough men
I can't speak for the original poster but I will respond to this from my POV.
I don't "resent" rough men. I raised by one - a steelworker, who despite the fact his father used to beat the crap out of him just because it was Tuesday, hung in with the family and ended up paying all the household bills at 16 so that his step-Mom and 3 brothers were taken safe and fed.
He used to say he would be in jail if my Mom hadn't married him and disrespecting her was the one thing he never tolerated. You could disagree with her, but not disrespectfully.
He loved sports and had no problem with taunting the opposition with the best of them. But he also believed in "time and place". He had goals for his family and that required discipline as needed.
I didn't vote for Trump in 2016 but came to appreciate he did a lot of good as president. I think he could have done a lot more had had he curbed some of his verbal excesses. His opposition did not either but he was too easily goaded on occasion.
My Dad is gone now, but glad to remember him on Valentine's Day.
Raskin is a congressman, not a senator. He's one of the congressmen presenting the House's case to the Senate.
Jamie seems to be channeling Phil Hartman's unfrozen caveman lawyer:
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I’m just a caveman. I fell on some ice and later got thawed out by some of your scientists. Your world frightens and confuses me! Sometimes the honking horns of your traffic make me want to get out of my BMW.. and runoff into the hills, or wherever.. Sometimes when I get a message on my fax machine, I wonder: “Did little demons get inside and type it?” I don’t know! My primitive mind can’t grasp these concepts. But there is one thing I do know – when a man like my client slips and falls on a sidewalk in front of a public library, then he is entitled to no less than two million in compensatory damages, and two million in punitive damages. Thank you.
"What do I know about all these legal technicalities? I'm just a caveman. One thing I do know: Trump is guilty. Orange man bad."
But do you expect anything more than that from an adult man who goes by the name "Jamie"?
Actual name: Jamin Ben Raskin. At first it sounds a little Arabic, so it's understandable why he dropped it, but after a little thought, I see what Marcus and Barbara did there with the name "Benjamin."
*
A balanced, even-handed, nuanced article won't get published, or at least it won't make a stir. Rosenfeld couldn't say, "Trump is encouraging distrust of established institutions and that can be dangerous, but you know, some of those institutions, like the FBI, the CIA, and the CDC haven't done much to inspire trust lately." Not making the necessary qualifications and reservations weakens her argument, though. It makes her article easy to ignore, discount, revile or ridicule.
"Bias has become the preferred form of reasoning." That's a really good way put the situation. For example, I've noticed that many people are being judged, not on what they actually said, but on what people thought that they must have meant. If they believe that someone is a racist, then whatever that person says, no matter how mundane, MUST have racist meanings. That's the classic "dog whistle" argument that we keep seeing.
Achilles said...Everyone does need to go watch this.
A Twitter commenter points out that the newscaster didn't actually say "just a [insert doctored evidence]. But the doctored evidence IS a big deal for a legal proceeding and why isn't that the focus of the media attention?
********
Watched it a couple of times now. A couple of points; I watched the trial (more than most probably) and I completely missed the doctoring of the date and why that is important, I heard about the check mark bs via other sources, and I knew about the editing charge. However, he goes on to say that they caught the House Managers doctoring other stuff that he does not want to go into.
As to your point, I agree that she was just trying to clarify what was doctored— but— go to the very question she asked him before which was completely an attempt at obfuscation. She was trying to hang him for using the word “insurrection” in his closing argument in order to move the ground of the interview to him admitting it was an insurrection. He was having none of it because it was obvious he only used the word when repeating the charges. That is a tactic used by the media constantly— they want you debate on their terms on their turf— she was trying to misdirect the whole interview and make him play defense (always a weaker position) about him supposedly admitting it was an insurrection in his closing argument. A completely devious move on the part of CBS.
@Chennaul: Thank you for your 12:02 comment.
Neither chromosomes nor gentitalia can be used to classify a human as being one sex or another.
If gender is a social construct forced on humanity by the patriarchy, then why are you cutting your dick off in order to align your self-image with a patriarchal, social construct? And if you do cut your dick off, does that make you a patriarchal, social construct conformist?
Ann Althouse said...
"'When is it okay to just look at the whole thing and rely on instinct and just know that something is right or wrong? The answer can't be: When it helps my side win. ...
"I reject that answer as unacceptable, and it is obvious why it is unacceptable"
Ok, pretty funny to include one type of common sense, i.e., "It's obvious." Well, if this is the Socratic method, maybe I'll try to define "common sense" by sense by saying that obviously it has several meanings.
It is OK "to just look at the whole thing and rely on instinct and just know that something is right or wrong when:
1. When we are aware of a rush to judgement: "Rush to Judgement"
When we are aware of hysteria dominated reactions: "Salem witch trial"
2. When we know the past history of the institution or person presenting: "Consider the source."
3. When we are aware of a one-sided presentation of facts and we see no one asking questions. "Google has nothing"
"Google has nothing" is a new slogan. I mean that experts, authorities can't be consulted because the situation is new or changed so that expertise or reasons for authority do not apply. For example, it's obvious to me that school covid lockdowns are creating in Milwaukee exactly the same situation on racial lines as Georgia school segregation of the Fifties, namely, bad education for one racial group. Equal but separate in access to computers and broadband means unequal virtual education. But if you try to find out how many kids in the black community have no access to a computer of their own from which they could view classes and no access to broadband, there is no information more recent than August. Or if you want to know how many are in rooms that are not classrooms, supervised by persons, who are not teachers, no info. And if you want to know how many products of this Milwaukee City system are falling behind products of Milwaukee Suburban school systems, no info. Common sense says this situation must be a disaster and a disaster's cover-up. Why? Because t's the same thing as segregated education. It's achieved in a different way for different reasons but it's impacting the same group and, common sense says it must be as bad. To me, that's common sense although "Google has nothing."
PS (Critical race theory would say that the unschooling of the poorest kids of the Milwaukee black community, was racism by racists. But I, knowing the intentions, don't think it's racism by racists - it's something just as bad done by wokies; and it's so bad and so much against what they want that they can't face it or act. That's psychological common sense. "You know how people are.")
While I would not go so far as to say the 2020 Presidential election was "stolen," I note that:
..such an unproven assertion is, as evidenced by Hillary Clinton in 2016, not beyond the bounds of accepted political use;
..many facts cast especial doubt on the integrity of the 2020 election:
....resistance by some states to make available their voter rolls for verification,
....refusal to investigate credible claims of voting machine software issues,
....widespread relaxation of voter registration and voting procedures, in some cases contrary to law, which greatly expanded the opportunity for fraud.
ANY person not appalled and dismayed at the conduct of the 2020 election outs themselves as a friend of lawlessness, chaos, and anarchy.
Blogger chickelit said...
@Chennaul: Thank you for your 12:02 comment.
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Thanks for bringing that video to my attention. I hope the professor addresses it.
Senators, America, we need to exercise our common sense about what happened
As I've noted previously, House Democrats were persuaded by their lawyers to bring a narrow, legalistic impeachment charge (incitement) that carried with it a very high standard of proof (thanks to years of First Amendment jurisprudence). They then attempted to broaden the charges without rewriting them and appeal to "common sense" to bridge the gap.
American lawyers, simultaneously too clever by half and not clever enough.
Rep. Complicity Shagwell (D-CA)...
Gentlemen, gentlemen--Althouse is not your enemy, she is your hostess. Please show common courtesy. Insults are completely out of order.
I don't believe that I am insulting Althouse when I say that she disappoints me. I expect more from our generation of liberals. And if it requires joining the Republicans and supporting Donald Trump to support ideals of free speech and free exercise of religion (N.B., I am an atheist), and to support policies that empower the working people and small business owners of this country, then that is where I have to go. From where I sit Althouse cannot bring herself to take this step, consequently she abandons the ideals of our generation of liberals. That's how I see it.
wendybar said...Van der Veen demolished the liar from CBS.
--
Hmmm. I saw that clip. Actually, she was clarifying for viewers who might not have understood what he was referring to.
He went off on her as if she asked it as a question. Good points regarding known media bias and all, but he seemed to misunderstand what she said.
He did a good job in the shampeachment, but should probably skip media interviews.
Actually the reason people believe that there was election fraud is based on questions about ballot fraud, unverified signatures, and other irregularities. In my case at least my opinion was based on testimony I heard from witnesses and mathematicians, not Trump’s statements.
The way Trump speaks is not technically based but the way he thinks is based on facts and reason. That’s why he is right so often in his judgments.
Lewis Wetzel, I think, mistakes Nabokov's class background, aesthetic elitism, and personal snobbery for a preference for "aristocratic" rule.
Let's read what VN wrote for the Wellesley Magazine in 1942:
"Democracy is humanity at its best, not because we happen to think that a republic is better than a king and a king is better than nothing and nothing is better than a dictator, but because it is the natural condition of every man since the human mind became conscious not only of the world but of itself. Morally, democracy is invincible. Physically, that side will win which has the better guns. Of faith and pride, both sides have plenty. That our faith and our pride are of a totally different order cannot concern an enemy who believes in shedding blood and is proud of its own."
A letter to a Russian friend fleeing Europe--"This is a cultured and extremely diverse country. The only thing you must do is deal with genuine Americans and don't get involved with the local Russian emigration."
Nabokov detested politics and political thinking, along with much else, but he didn't spend much energy pining for aristocratic rule.
Narr
From vol II of Boyd's bio
I thought Vanderveen was right on. Every single question was an attempt to undermine him. There is no question about the bias of the interviewer.
"From where I sit Althouse cannot bring herself to take this step,"
I see this in many on the Left who don't like the direction the Party is going. They can't bring themselves to support the Republican. They often lie to themselves that the one they voted for is really moderate. Biden played this role. They make take the position of cruel neutrality. Others sound nearly libertarian, and express confusion about who they support. Brett and Eric Weinstein are here. Eric more so.
As far as our hostess, as long as the "attacks" relate to her beliefs and how she engages people here, that's legit and she can take it. She likes a good debate. Personal attacks that have nothing to do with the debate, that shouldn't be for anyone.
Rosalyn,
It may have been a cumulative response to biased questions. My point was that she wasn't asking a question when he blew up. You can hear her try to explain, but he was not listening...or couldn't hear her.
I've got to agree with @Rosalyn C. (1:34) here concerning the bias of the interviewer of Vanderveen. It may be that if you worked off a transcript of the interviewer's word about the check mark you might imagine there was no bias. But if you watch the clip it is apparent that she is seeking to downplay the significance of altering evidence.
Van der Veen was putting on an act just like everybody else.
It's competitive outrage.
If you're going to be on the air, the media want you to produce a spectacle. They don't care what spectacle. You'll have a role in their general spectacle and that means eyeballs sold to advertisers.
It is a question why their newsbabes are such morons but they're not trying to attract me.
In my case at least my opinion was based on testimony I heard from witnesses and mathematicians, not Trump’s statements.
Pretty amazing, isn't it? Trump's been pretty much shut out of social media and other communications to the world for about a month now, shut out of giving people instructions -- and people are thinking for themselves! They are able to think and talk and act all on their own, without puppet master Trump telling them what to think and say and do.
Per rhhardin: Van der Veen was putting on an act just like everybody else.
My impression, as well. His 'meet in the middle' nonsense was pure, undiluted crap. There is no 'middle'. There seem to be a lot of people [supposedly on the Right] who try to emulate Trump by being forceful and calling out the biased media but the fact is, they just don't get it. They never did get it. The future of our Republic is at stake and these guys are just playing politics as usual.
Trump wanted to fortify democratic processes, not through their appropriation and usurpation, not though the extra-constitutional braying of the Electoral Press, but through audits in several jurisdiction where democratic gerrymandering, perhaps fraud, was evident and reported. Democrats snorted, others kneeled, and denied People their civil rights.
independent said... [hush][hide comment]
Funny to listen to you all talk about logic and facts over feelings when you are willing to accept without question the most outlandish claims about the last election. Over 60,000 persons underage voted in Georgia? Really? Absolutely no evidence for such a ridiculous claim and yet it's gospel in Trump circles.
That you people genuinely believe "it's gospel in Trump circles" proves it is you people who are ignorant.
The MSM and all the usual leftist suspects will treat this as an OJ victory. He was guilty but he got off.
The answer can't be: When it helps my side win.
To the contrary, I think we can all agree impeachment and removal is outrageous when deployed against my side and absolutely appropriate when deployed against yours.
Shorter, more honest, Jamie Raskin:
The law is against us. The facts are against us.
Therefore we demand you embrace our hatred of Trump, and convict him because we hate him.
Yeah, Jamie, how about you FOAD
To all the vote fraud deniers out there:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/16/world/africa/uganda-election-results.html
Uganda’s Leader of 35 Years Is Re-elected Amid Accusations of Vote-Rigging
His rival, Bobi Wine, says the election was unfair, a contention backed by independent international observers.
...
Local and foreign election observers questioned the validity and transparency of this week’s vote after they were prevented from monitoring it.
See Detroit, Philly, and Atlanta, where poll watchers were consistently prevented from getting close enough to monitor the election.
It does not matte what number you have, once you've blocked poll watchers from monitoring your every move. Because no numbers you produce have any validity after that point.
The election was stolen. We know that, because vote counters who aren't stealing the election, don't block poll watchers from doing their job.
In a same world, the response to what happened in those Democrat controlled cites / counties is exactly the same as the response to the election in Uganda: You blocked poll watchers, your results are fraudulent.
To assert otherwise is to show your own dishonesty
Instead of deference to well-trained scientists, academics, journalists, and even governmental authorities, he touted the true wisdom of “the people.”
This is credentialitis, and it is always wrong.
"Well trained" is a worthless and meaningless phrase. You can have the best training in the world, and still be utterly incompetent, dishonest, corrupt, and / or lazy.
The proper question is not "ar you well trained", the proper questions are "do you do a good job?" "Are your results correct?"
Those are questions that require judgment, and a proper set of metrics.
For journalists, my metric is this: do you honestly report and cover news that does not advance the left wing agenda?
For academics, my metric is this: do you honestly investigate and report subjects that do not advance the left wing agenda?
For scientists, my metric is this: do you honestly engage in the scientific method, including making all your data and methods available to anyone who wants to prove you wrong?
None of the "well-trained academics, journalists" who Trump attacks pass those metrics.
The same is true for those "well-trained scientists" in the "climate science" field.
So Trump was right and correct to ignore everything they had to say
Vladimir Nabokov (Author of Lolita)
- yep. We know where he comes from.
Something related to this is puzzling. Why is Bernie Sanders still in the Senate? He inspired the worst attack on Congress in some 70 years. His strong supporter and campaign volunteer in 2016, James Hodgkinson, came to the Republican team practice in June 2017 and asked a bystander if this was the Republican team, was told yes. He then took out his guns and tried to assassinate the two dozen Republican members of Congress who were there. Nobody did that in the riot at the Capitol.
Nabokov wrote Lolita? Damn! That changes everything.
"We know where he comes from."
Indeed. St. Pete (the one in Imperial Russia) by way of the Crimea, the UK, Berlin, Paris, and eventually to the land of the free. (Bonus if you know where he died.)
Anyway, mishu, why don't you tell us what's being missed in the grown-ups' discussion of Nabokov.
Narr
Wink wink nudge nudge
"When do we get to bypass studying the factual details and legal standards and all the links in a chain of reasoning?"
I'm sorry but I completed missed the rational argument that the Democratic Party won the 2020 presidential election. All I saw for the most part were half-assed arguments that ignored the issues that were raised and that were insulting in their stupidity and incompleteness.
"[T]he populist appeal to common sense was already a time-tested strategy to gain votes on the right... [W]hen asked about global warming, the smart move was to say that it had to be a hoax because we got a lot of snow last winter."
And on the left, the "smart move" is to say global warming must be true because it's hot this summer.
The left's self-congratulatory insistence that they are the smart people and the rest of us are . . . not, probably is enough to explain Trump's success in 2016. Republicans or conservatives need to learn and apply that lesson in 2022 and 2024. If they do, the Democrats won't be able to steal enough votes to win.
He then took out his guns and tried to assassinate the two dozen Republican members of Congress who were there.
And an 11 year old boy who was there with his Dad, one of the players.
“Sprezzatura said
...Althouse is funny“
I got a tag for that.
I agree that she was just trying to clarify what was doctored
If she were only trying to clarify for her viewers, she would have said something like, "To clarify for viewers who may have missed it, the evidence you're referring to was a blue check placed next to a tweet, indicating that the tweet's author had a verified account [or whatever it is...I don't do Twitter] when in fact the author did not; a date on a tweet[?] that was originally in 2021 but was changed to 2020, giving the impression, which they did not correct, that the tweet was published long before the events of January 6, 2021; and the video with which the prosecution opened their case, which did not include former president Trump's calling on rally attendees to 'peacefully and patriotically' protest." I've tried hard, here, to put words into her mouth that even a leftist tv news presenter might say - only a little context, not the full context of why these changes matter.
Instead, she gave a dismissive rundown: you're talking about a blue check (what's the big deal?), a date that was changed from 2021 to 2020 (probably a typo), and what you claim is selectively edited video.
So no, she wasn't "just trying to clarify for her viewers."
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