The Independent reports.
Note that the decision is entirely based on Assange's mental state and the conditions of detention in the United States. It's not about the substantive merit of the charges against him. The judge said the crimes alleged against Assange are also crimes in the UK and specified that the prosecution is in good faith: "There is little or no evidence to support hostility by President Trump towards Mr Assange and WikiLeaks."
There will be an appeal. What's most disturbing to me is a British judge impugning the conditions of imprisonment in the United States.
I don't remember reading — before this — that Julian Assange is autistic.
ADDED: From the 2011 book "WikiLeaks: Inside Julian Assange's War on Secrecy":
His obsession with computers, and his compulsion to keep moving, both seemed to have origins in his restless early years. So too, perhaps, did the rumblings from others that Assange was somewhere on the autism spectrum. Assange would himself joke, when asked if he was autistic: "Aren't all men?" His dry sense of humour made him attractive — perhaps too attractive — to women. And there was his high analytical intelligence....
If you think that's just a joke, here's a Reason article from 2007: "Could It Be that All Men Are a Bit Autistic?"
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Asperger's is no longer a diagnosis. It was imprecise and overused. It has some meaning in popular conversation still, and is applied to STEM males - occasionally females. If someone is taking it to themselves, it is very unlikely that it is severe autism, no matter how high-functioning. It has almost become a badge of honor among tech and science males to cop to a minor version of the disorder. To be "a little aspie" suggests one is really, really part of the STEM tribe and is a ready made excuse for any oddities or faux pas. Depression may be endogenous, but is likely deeply tied to his confinement and anxiety. I'm not sure that should count, but I don't know the precedents here. I am concerned that he has psychotic features at times. That might be legit. However if all that means is that he gets paranoid sometimes about what people intend for him, I would say that is just catastrophising.
I was a psychiatric social worker at a state facility for forty years, and while I specialised in acute crises, I did work forensic units at times. Thus I could be considered knowledgeable about the possibilities, but not a diagnostic expert. And diagnosis at a distance based on news reports is not very valuable anyway, even from folks with top-flight credentials and experience.
Could it be that all women are emotional wrecks?
I don’t trust our federal legal system either. They certainly didn’t protect Epstein, and thus kept Epstein’s victims from getting justice.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Firesign Enjoy your Monday.
I wouldn’t trust the DOJ US system either. It was put into corrupt overdrive by Obama.
Assange’s comment shows he doesn’t know much about autism, or was joking. I like the way the Reason article quotes a “professor Baron-Cohen” (What’s IN a name?).
Imagine an article entitled “Could all women have a slight histrionic personality disorder?”
Leland said... I don’t trust our federal legal system either. They certainly didn’t protect Epstein, and thus kept Epstein’s victims from getting justice.
Correction. The Federal Legal System and the corrupt people who were supposed to be jailing him "protected" the perpetrators. It isn't about justice. It is about who you are.
Powerful, rich, politically connected people get protection whether they are the perpetrators or if they are victims.
Does anyone really think that there is a fair, even handed justice system in the United States?
"I like the way the Reason article quotes a “professor Baron-Cohen” (What’s IN a name?)."
Professor Baron-Cohen — who is the brother of the comic actor — has received a tremendous amount of attention for his study of the "male brain."
I blogged all that here in 2005.
Althouse hit rhhardin with a diamond bullet right between the eyes. Bravo, he's nearly impossible to troll.
What's most disturbing to me is a British judge impugning the conditions of imprisonment in the United States.
The truth hurts, doesn't it? The conditions of imprisonment in the U.S. are deplorable (with very few exceptions, some of the minimum security prisons do have acceptable conditons).
Medical notes record numerous occasions of [Assange] telling a prison psychologist and other medical staff that he has suicidal or self-harming thoughts, felt despairing or hopeless and had plans to end his life
Assange said this knowing that if he said he wasn't suicidal, they'd ratchet up his punishment until he was.
The judge is right not to turn Assange over to a police state run by a cabal of vindictive, criminal psychopaths.
So why arent the rest of the journolists that published wikileaks in the docket
"What's most disturbing to me is a British judge impugning the conditions of imprisonment in the United States." What's most disturbing to me as an English lawyer is that you do not acknowledge that when it comes to asserting extraterritorial jurisdiction, the US knows few boundaries. For example, European banks are, even as regards their operations in Europe, subject to the most far reaching and intrusive reporting obligations by US law.
As regards the case in hand, the issue is if the UK should extradite a person within its jurisdiction, which although it raises principles of comity, is ultimately a question for the local court. Its determination of that question is however heavily tilted in favour of the US by the implementation into UK law of a 2003 UK-US extradition treaty, which is asymmetrical, in that it allows the US to demand extradition of British citizens and other nationals for offences committed against US law, even if the alleged offence was committed in the UK by a person living and working in the UK. By contrast, the UK cannot request the extradition of someone who committed an offence under UK law whilst in the US. This reflects the extraterritorial reach that US law has granted itself in its laws - the UK would not need to mirror such a right as UK law does not create such offences, with very few exceptions.
Whether Assange should be sent to the US depends, under the relevant statute, on having regard to the extent to which Assange's fundamental rights would be infringed. Many candidates for extradition have sought to rely on this, notably by citing the harsh condiitons of US prisons, but such arguments have generally failed. They only worked here because the judge went so far as to find that Assange was likely to commit suicide if extradited, so the decision rests on much more than a view of US prison conditions. It is susceptible to appeal, so this is not likely to be the last word (leaving aside the rumour of a last minute pardon by President Trump).
Ann, as an addendum to your comment on Professor Baron-Cohen, he was given a knighthood in the New Year's Honours list for his work on, notably, autism, and I understand one of Assange's human rights arguments is that he is autistic.
"Could it be that all women are emotional wrecks?"
Where are you on the spectrum?
Belmarsh where he is currently residing is much nastier than any establishment except perhaps pelican bay, same for la sante vs gitmo.
The conditions of imprisonment in the U.S. are deplorable
As compared to who, Fred? Would you rather be in a Russian/Chinese/North Korean prison camp? (I know I'd rather you be there than posting here...)
Search "autism" "male brain"
returns stuff like
Extreme male brain theory of autism rests on shaky ground (2019)
New evidence challenges 'extreme male brain' theory of autism (2019)
Extreme male brain theory of autism confirmed in large new ...(2018)
Study challenges idea that autism is caused by an overly masculine...(2019)
Study Linking Autism to 'Male Brain' Retracted, Replaced (2019)
"The authors of a study that claimed to find a link between typical male brain anatomy and autism spectrum disorder (ASD) have retracted it and replaced it with ahttps://www.google.com/search?q=%22autism%22+%22male+brain%22 dramatically changed version after finding an error in their methodology."
...
"Emily Willingham, PhD, critiqued the article at the time it was published, writing that the findings "do not, however, live up to the breathless headlines or to claims of one of its authors, Simon Baron-Cohen, who excitedly tweeted that '79.6% of women with autism have a male brain, and women with a male brain are 3 times more likely to have autism.'"
As Leland said about his risk of being Epsteined in the U.S. is enough to justify the judge's decision.
Trump needs to pardon him.
Assange should never return to the US.
The corruption Machine(D) in American will kill him no matter what.
Remember when Hillary said she wanted Assange dead?
**Epstein did not kill himself.
Because of his health? How about because US laws are unenforceable against non-citizens performing actions solely outside the country? How about because publishingnleaked I formation is a time-honored, rewarded tradition?
Epstein should have gone to Russia like snowden
PB How about because publishing leaked I formation is a time-honored, rewarded tradition?
IF you are a Democrat, that is.
narciso said...
So why arent the rest of the journolists that published wikileaks in the docket
Off topic.
If you want to reinforce the fact all males have autism pursuant to the only man to unlock the male brain..please do.
Well im not assuming that, assange meant it as a joke.
When yoo wrote the rules about interrogation, he was relying on european court decisions about places like long kesh and belmarsh.
They can’t really say they are worried about Mr Assange being murdered in US custody, can they?
There do some to be typical comorbidities of high analytic intelligence. My experience with men of high analytic intelligence is that it's a fair bet that they're on a spectrum, whether it's the high rate of OCD and OCD-like tendencies in lawyers and physicians or more conventional autistic characteristics found in engineers and math and math/music types. We're talking about neuro-atypical people to begin with when you're talking high intelligence, so it is not surprising that using a spectrum defined for "normal" would indicate abnormalities in such folks.
Temujin, nice link. Bozos is my favorite of the Firesign albums, although Nick Danger is a close second. It's even more remarkable when you realize it was created well before Epcot opened, yet it is the perfect parody of Spaceship Earth.
Have to say I'm with rhhardin on this one, more or less... in that any claim that the typical, standard-issue male brain should be considered at least somewhat abnormal (and therefore that only female brains can be considered normal) ought to be approached with great skepticism, if not simply rejected because of the implied pejorative. (Outside tech, "on the spectrum" is at minimum a call for sympathy if not a straight-up insult about a person's social abilities.)
OTOH, the bones of the claim - that the "male brain" is more inclined to analytical thought, or at any rate less inclined to emotional thought, than the "female brain" - at least acknowledges that in the main, men's and women's brains could have structural and/or functional differences. So that's something. If such differences could be objectively observed, even quantified, then maybe we could put an end to the horrible puberty-blockers-for-children thing: the kid who believes she was born into the body of a girl but ought to be a boy, but whose brain structure, chemistry, or function (via FMRI) doesn't support this belief, could receive psychological help instead of uncritical capitulation to her misapprehension. We could follow the science! (I don't believe, btw, that such analysis ought to be mandatory - present yourself any way you like, regardless of what "flavor" of brain you have. But when we are trying to determine whether a minor should undergo permanent physical changes on the basis of a subjective feeling, it'd sure be useful.)
As others have pointed out, it may be a little punch of the Brits to base a decision on extradition on what the American custodial experience may entail, but in a post-Epstein world, it's hard to argue with that consideration. We also had to let out prisoners during COVID because we couldn't secure their safety in prison, and we did even worse in some places with our elder care facilities. Are we going to mad at the Brits for noticing how far we've slid?
Lucien said...
Assange’s comment shows he doesn’t know much about autism, or was joking. I like the way the Reason article quotes a “professor Baron-Cohen” (What’s IN a name?).
Neither do you. Simon Baron-Cohen is one of the leading authorities on Autism.
Whoops! Looks like Althouse beat me to the punch!
Those who say that US law should not apply to Assange for doing what he did would be correct under more traditional notions of law and espionage.
Viewed that way, Assange was acting as the head of a small, hostile intelligence agency, and in that case the usual response would be a quiet assassination.
"What's most disturbing to me is a British judge impugning the conditions of imprisonment in the United States."
Why?
Rather, why is that bothering you now? It happens as part of any trans-national extradition
Annnnd the real reason? Which the Brits can’t allude to? Julians safety in custody in the US.
"What's most disturbing to me is a British judge impugning the conditions of imprisonment in the United States."
Anti-Americanism, in or out of judicial proceedings, is new to you?
"His dry sense of humour made him attractive — perhaps too attractive — to women."
Chicks are easy. Guys are easy too, though in a different way.
Assange being on the spectrum is like, duuuuuhhhhhh.
He probably did commit a crime in the UK where there is no first amendment. In the US, Assange has exercised his right to free speech. He has done nothing that the NYTs and WaPo haven't done countless times; i.e., publish stolen or secret information.
Assange should be pardoned by Trump before he leaves office. Wikileaks should move their HQ to the US and continue to do good work.
As compared to who, Fred?
Western Europe, and the U.K. in particular, you dolt.
Would you rather be in a Russian/Chinese/North Korean prison camp? (I know I'd rather you be there than posting here...)
I doubt a British court would extradite to any of those countries either.
Autism and bipolar are, in my opinion, anomalies of the brain that are so common that they shouldn't be called disorders.
"Condition" is a better word. There should be no stigma against common mental conditions just as there should be no stigma against homosexuality or being left handed.
You can ask nicolai tolstoy re operation keeelhawl regarding that.
"What's most disturbing to me is a British judge impugning the conditions of imprisonment in the United States. "
After Epstein, you question this?
The elephant in the room is what Assange knows about the DNC 'hack' and where that information really came from...
It seems that nobody on the left wants to know the answer to that question.
As compared to who, Fred?
Western Europe, and the U.K. in particular, you dolt.
You've been to prison, Freddie? (Why am I not surprised?)
I didn't realize that American imperial reach extended so far and deep into the UK--that's very interesting.
If Assange was to be extradited to the care of the USian Empire, he wouldn't survive the plane ride, and everyone here knows it--especially the Assange-bashers.
Gummints don't like being made fools of, and Assange has made fools of many gummints.
Operation Keelhaul was an episode in a particular place and time and under unprecedented circumstances--the comparison here is just silly.
And psychology is bunk, so there.
Narr
If Trump doesn't pardon Assange, I take back everything good I ever said about him
Prof, Prof Baron-Cohen is Sascha's cousin, not bro.
Narr
IIRC
Why shouldn't a British judge impugn US prison conditions? Our prison conditions are ghastly! (I have no doubt that British prison conditions are also ghastly.)
Aside from that, the charges against Assange are simply a front to silence a man who revealed some of America's criminal activities, and, in particular, showing the video provided by Bradley Manning of a US Helicopter crew killing a group of noncombatants on the ground in Iraq, two of those killed being journalists. The crew also fired on a van that pulled up to help retrieve the wounded. The driver was killed and his two children in the van were wounded. The thugs in the helicopter passed that off as "he should have known not to bring kids to a war zone." That war zone was their city, which we made into a war zone by our invasion. The whole crew should be up on charges of war crimes, as should the architects of our illegal war in Iraq.
"...just as there should be no stigma against homosexuality or being left handed."
You had me until left handed.
That's where I draw the line : )
What on earth does "His obsession with computers..." mean? He's concerned with privacy. So is everyone else who writes software for a living, and many people who don't. I spend on the order of 12 hours every day at a computer. The majority of people I know who don't write software get their news, entertainment, and social lives from the internet. Are we all "obsessed with computers?"
The US does not have the best reputation for securing the safety of a prisoner who has a lot of enemies in high places. Assauge would be an even bigger target than Epstein. I don't think Epstein killed himself.
All the rest of the ruling about Assauge's mental state etc., is lawyer talk.
Gender difference: a functional penis is a weapon of mass "burden".
"I don't think Epstein killed himself"
I don't think Epstein is dead.
is this another way of saying furriners have no standing to bring up USA flavoring of conditions and consequences in incarceration PRIOR to trial and conviction?
Professora said : What's most disturbing to me is a British judge impugning the conditions of imprisonment in the United States.
all USA has to acquiesce to in UK court is he would be released on self recognizance and keep that promise.
What's most disturbing to me is a British judge impugning the conditions of imprisonment in the United States.
How dare they? By Third World shithole standards, American prisons are, like Minnesota children, all above average.
If Google employees had union protection, they would be safe in saying that men are more likely to be autistic and women more likely to be neurotic.
Just kidding.
Autism is defined differently in different countries. Not at all in some. IMO people in Britain tend to self identify as autistic more because the definition is different.
Autism is a spectrum of disorders. Some of those in it can become functional and ordered and survive in society. Some need permanent care through their family. The family would need financial and emotional assistance. Which is not happening as people start to desired to crowd the autism spectrum with their own self doubts.
We can change the terms. Change the labels. Become more sensitive to the issue but lose sight of the ones who really need help.
The main thing to accomplish is to help the parents reach out for resources if their child has some struggle with cognitive growth. Early identification is key.
Some of the dangers of autism.
1. Failure to understand police commands.
2. Fear of water and easily panicked.
3. No ability to distrust people.
4. Fixations that can't be placed easily in society without reforming society.
A lot of autistic kids can work. They just need a mentor. They also need a job that profits from one of their talent stack abilities and ignores the social awkwardness. Enlightened CEO's are usually the only people doing this type of work.
The Bridge, and The Tunnel (Swedish and British versions, respectively) are good with an aspergers woman detective, but eventually succumbed to bad writing and ridiculous plot complications. They don't see that the good parts are the social mistakes that the woman makes and corrects or not with another too-frank statement, not the mystery plot.
I'm not terribly bothered by Assange being imprisoned in an embassy, in the UK, or in the US.
I'm not terribly clear on why he's being charged when the NYT leaks things every day.
I imagine a lot of prisoners in the US and elsewhere are suicidal. Why does Assange get special treatment?
Maybe the judge is saying between the lines that Assange is at risk of being murdered in a US prison.
In regards to what Robert Cook said,
If Manning is free, what's the point of prosecuting Assange for publishing the same material?
the tunnel was good was until the 3rd season, then it became too convoluted,
The "substantive merit of the charges against" Assange are as substantial as charges that might be laid against the New York Times or Washington Post or CNN or MSNBC.
'” Prof, Prof Baron-Cohen is Sascha's cousin, not bro.”
You are right. Thanks.
It is well known that Assange suffered greatly as a child from being raised in cult-like conditions.
While that is not the same as autistic, which is a diagnosis which only the best of the best of physicians can with any real level of confidence indulge in, it is close.
His dry sense of humour made him attractive — perhaps too attractive — to women.
Sure. If there are women who actually think Benedict Cumberbatch is sexy, why wouldn't they be attracted to the characters he plays?
The sexiness and the covens of cumberbitches come a bit too late for Edison, Turing, and Billy Bulger, though.
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