Madame First Lady -- Mrs. Biden -- Jill -- kiddo: a bit of advice on what may seem like a small but I think is a not unimportant matter. Any chance you might drop the "Dr." before your name?
He's just asking. The "kiddo" might seem over-familiar, but it's in a series — from most formal to most familiar. Laying out a series of approaches to addressing the woman — Madame First Lady -- Mrs. Biden -- Jill -- kiddo — is a way to say What should I call you? He's asking.
"Dr. Jill Biden" sounds and feels fraudulent, not to say a touch comic.
That's phrased with some politeness — jocose politeness — but he's plainly saying it is fraudulent and comical. All right! He's got us, and those with an inclination to protect the Bidens are activated and ready to denounce old man Epstein. As a person of cruel neutrality, I am anticipating liking this essay. I'm thinking this "Dr." bullshit among women has gone on too long and is a marker of inferiority, so he's calling on Jill Biden to set a good example and drop the honorific. You don't need it, and you shouldn't want it.
Your degree is, I believe, an Ed.D., a doctor of education, earned at the University of Delaware through a dissertation with the unpromising title "Student Retention at the Community College Level: Meeting Students' Needs."
Unpromising! That's mean. He's denouncing her dissertation without reading it. And yet, it's a bit convincing. He's saying, come on, you didn't do any serious scholarship, now, did you?
A wise man once said that no one should call himself "Dr." unless he has delivered a child. Think about it, Dr. Jill, and forthwith drop the doc. I taught at Northwestern University for 30 years without a doctorate or any advanced degree....
Epstein is justly proud of how well he's done without a doctorate. He's in a good position to look down on people whose big point of pride is their degree: Show me what you've done — with or without a degree. That's why you get a degree — isn't it? — to do something with what you've learned, not to flaunt the degree per se.
In contemporary universities, in the social sciences and humanities, calling oneself Dr. is thought bush league. The Ph.D. may once have held prestige, but that has been diminished by the erosion of seriousness and the relaxation of standards in university education generally, at any rate outside the sciences... Dr. Jill, I note you acquired your Ed.D. as recently as 15 years ago at age 55, or long after the terror [or examinations] had departed....
Forget the small thrill of being Dr. Jill, and settle for the larger thrill of living for the next four years in the best public housing in the world as First Lady Jill Biden.
I've elided some of the text, but there's nothing in it that goes after women in particular. It's not misogynistic at all. Epstein is right to advise non-physicians to eschew the "Dr." honorific. He could be criticized for not showing any concern for how women in particular have used this mode of demanding respect and dignity. But in a way, he's showing respect by talking to Jill Biden the way he'd talk to a man: It's ridiculous! Cut the crap!
ADDED: Here's my idea: Limit "Dr." — as the form of address — to the people who are inviting those who talk with them to use "Doctor" kind of like a first name. That's how "Professor" worked for me. I didn't want students to call me Ann, but they didn't have to say "Professor Althouse" or "Ms. Althouse." ("Ms. Althouse" was what it said on the nameplate they put on my office door.) They could always say "Professor." Similarly, when people are talking to their medical doctor, they often say "Doctor," not "Dr. Smith" or whatever, just "Doctor." Doctor!
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311 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 311 of 311She can be Dr. Pause
"about the first First Lady who plans to continue her life work during her husband's presidency"
I'd be happier if she hung around to defend the fort against Team Harris
The late Ralph Stanley of the Clinch Mountain Boys who had only a high school diploma but an honorary doctorate like to be called and was frequently called Dr. Ralph Stanley. But, unlike Dr. Jill, he was most certainly a maestro albeit of the bluegrass banjo. Dr. is more than a bit pretentious (my 1969 JD notwithstanding) except for an MD or in, but only in, an academic milieu.
Tradition: the difference between and arts degree and a science degree is an ignorance of Latin.
Anyway, if we can elect a serial liar and braggart like Slow Joe president, we shouldn't take issue with a small thing like addressing his wife as doctor.
Well put jaydub.
When I think back on all the crap I learned in Grad School, it's a wonder I can think at all...
Blogger Spiros said...
I don't think this is the right take. Instead, the hysteria is a reaction to populism's war on expertise and its resentment toward intellectualism. The Biden Administration is opposite -- it's all about bureaucratic expertise.
It's going to be tough to convince the Trumpsters that the overly educated elite aren't stupid. My opinion -- the educated elite SOUND stupid and are biased and prone to group think. The elite are wrong just as often as they right, but they're not stupid...
They are the credentialed "elite". Whether or not they are stupid, they are not in fact competent to run much of anything.
Ground rule: anyone who squawks about the value of their credential is proving that the credential is worthless.
Because if it wasn't worthless, the credential would have come with skills that would have enabled the squawker to actually accomplish something of value to squawk over.
Churchy LaFemme@9:40AM & Fernandinande@ 9:09AM both cross the tape in a photofinish for thread WINNIAHS for their links! (Honorable mention for Fernaninades link out of the gate up top)
Dr Bill Cosby was unavailable for comment.
'Similarly, when people are talking to their medical doctor, they often say "Doctor," not "Dr. Smith" or whatever, just "Doctor."'
Never fear, Smith is here.
My doctors, dentist, etc. has always just been 'doc.'
None of them have been butt-hurt yet, not even my proctologist : )
Well, given that modern feminism is mostly about privileging the sensibilities of well off white women, I'm not surprised by the blowback.
Funny thing is, years ago I worked in a place where a bunch of my co-workers took to calling me "Doctor". For a while I kept saying "Don't call me that" because I didn't even have a Bachelors. These were people who liked me and I liked them. (My job was teaching people how to use software, which was a thing back then, and I was good at it.) My co-workers were definitely ribbing me, but it was affectionate and appreciated.
Then I moved to a different state when my wife received her PhD in Neuroscience. She and I parted ways a few years later, but I don't remember her ever insisting anyone call her "Doctor."
"Similarly, when people are talking to their medical doctor, they often say "Doctor," not "Dr. Smith" or whatever, just "Doctor." Doctor!"
This is an interesting point. I think it's correct, and it's not correct to address a PhD as "Doctor", whereas "Doctor Smith" is perfectly fine. But reporters generally do not address PhDs with the title "Doctor Smith," even when interviewing someone who's just won a Nobel Prize. In fact, reporters assume a first name familiarity (which is certainly disrespectful in this case.)
During a hospital stay at the Mayo Clinic some of the MDs occasionally addressed me (a PhD in physics) as "Doctor ********" I was a little embarassed by that.
2: I have a Master's degree. I'm glad there is no "Slave's degree."
Oooh! It would be evil to start a meme amongst the woke that all "Master's" degrees are racist and should be renamed.
Epstein earned his undergraduate (and only) degree at the University of Chicago; the tradition there is to call faculty, PhD or no, 'Mister' 'Ms./Miss' 'Mrs.', never 'Doctor'. At the university where I teach students routinely call faculty 'Doctor'--probably a reflection of our insecurity as an institution. Personally I don't care what my students call me (they often misspell my name too). Who cares, as long as there's no disrespect intended? But I know quite a few female colleagues who automatically assume that not being addressed by their academic title is disrespectful or misogynistic. Maybe it is, but most of the time it's just the ignorance of youth. The same reason they call nonfiction books 'novels.' They don't know any better.
At long last, we've solved the mystery of what "Ms." stands for. Misogyny, the victim credential of every person who self-refers as Ms.
I wonder if the Thompson Twins will be providing the music for the Inaugural Ball?
Schools of Education offer Masters and PhD degrees because
a) Public schools give teachers an automatic pay bump when they receive a graduate degree, and
b) Public schools will pay the wildly inflated tuition for that degree.
As others have noted, the requirements are not onerous. A public-school teacher could easily meet them, but there are people who will meet them for you for a reasonable price.
Like our blog host, I grew up in Wilmington, Delaware in the 1960s. At the time, it had the highest concentration of PhDs in the world, due to the big chemical research facilities there.
My neighborhood was chock full of men with PhDs. NONE of them (including my father) wanted to be called "Doctor".
In my experience on both coasts, except for medical doctors, people are only addressed/listed as "Doctor" in the US in their direct professional role, say to be introduced as a conference speaker.
My father liked to relate a funny story in this context. One night, the phone rang in the middle of the night, asking for "Dr Wilson". My father answered, "You've got the wrong kind of doctor!" and hung up. This repeated several times. Finally, the caller was able to explain that he was the night security guard at the lab notifying my father that an alarm had gone off.
She’s as much a doctor as Sharpton is a reverend.
This entire Biden/Harris thing is getting tiring very quickly. And that's even before they assume office. The Obama years were all "I, I, I, ..." and "me, me, me, ...". B/H will be more of the same with the occasional "they, they, they, ..." thrown in by the admiring masses. Sad.
I always addressed my instructors (Physics, Math, Chemistry) as "Doctor", and they usually requested that I use their first name instead. Not always.
Blogger khematite said...
Physicians actually came relatively late (the 17th century) to the preference for being referred to as "doctors.
I don't know where that was. In 1835 the Worshipful Society of Apothecaries granted the first certificate that might be called "Doctor." The Society was founded in 1617 but did not function in granting certificates until 1835. I have been a non-resident member for years.
We're back to the robot thing.
In my experience on both coasts, except for medical doctors, people are only addressed/listed as "Doctor" in the US in their direct professional role, say to be introduced as a conference speaker.
I only expected to be called "doctor" in my office or the hospital.
In sailing I never asked for the title. A few friends would use "doc," but that was rare. I was infuriated when some officious type listed me as "Doctor" in the Transpac list of entries. It still annoys me if I see it. It would have been worse if we had won, which we missed by 9 minutes.
Jill Biden has shown more enthusiasm about her husband's candidacy than any potential First Lady I can recall. It is one thing to hope your husband will do well in his career, but it is something else entirely to be enthusiastic about taking on the tedious but demanding role of First Lady. It would almost have been worth tolerating Hillary as President to see what Bill made of being the First Gentleman. It seems unlikely he would have been able to suppress his natural tendency to make himself the center of attention. I suspect there would have been more lamps thrown.
All that really matters is that Whoopi Goldberg thinks Dr. Biden would make a great Surgeon General : )
Seriously.
As it was relayed to me:
The first use of doctor in English literature was a call for a lawyer to come and write a last will and testament.
Lawyers have no claim to the title doctor.
I will never call a person by their former occupation.
Retired judges should no longer be called judge.
Retired university professors are no longer professors.
Emeritus is bull shit, too.
No titles of nobility in these here United States.
"No titles of nobility in these here United States."
If King George had had sense enough to grant some Americans titles of nobility, there would be no United States. Spain lost her colonies for the same reason.
Well the PR Team of Dr. Biden's outraged husband has struck back. Northwestern took Epstein's name off some list of "emeritus" this or that.
One of the meanest jerk executives I met in a long career had a PhD in Electrical Engineering and insisted on being called "Dr." This was in a small technology company that was loaded with folks who either had Ph. D. degrees in one technology or other or had MBAs from Stanford or Wharton. He was the only one who was Dr. The others were just Bill or Jack.
Now the Bidens would do well if they went to a high end restaurant in say Vienna--where the maitre de knows the precise social rank of every occupation, professional license or educational degree. There Dr. Biden would get the respect her degree deserves--and a table by the kitchen door. OTOH First Lady Biden would probably get a seat toward the front of the house.
Law degrees used to be llb. Bachelor. Switched to JD, to keep up with medical school, and even changed for folks who had already graduated. But between disciplinary boards and peer pressure you never see lawyers refer to themselves as doctors.
Now, about esq.
When I received my JD in 1969 only the University of Chicago and, if I recall correctly, Yale were awarding that degree (rather than an LL.B.) to law school graduates. Subsequently, many other law schools began to award the JD and allowed their earlier law graduates to exchange their LL.B. diplomas for JD diplomas. Many did so, particularly those who displayed their diplomas in the office. A few were even pretentious enough to use the title Dr. or in correspondence addressed themselves as Esq. I always thought they better belonged in Europe or the UK.
On the legal degree title: My grandfather had a bachelor of law degree from Georgetown--back in those days, you didn't have to go to law school to become a lawyer, you could "read the law" and pass the bar. My grandfather didn't even go to college, he went directly to law school after working to make the money to do so. He subsequently earned a master of Law and a Doctor of Law from American University, but now law degrees are inflated to JD just to keep up with the Joneses
Joe Blow, JD, MD
Jane Blow, MD, PhD
Those shims can properly be called doc.
I don't recall anyone calling Lynn Cheney "Dr. Cheney" and yet she who holds a PhD in 19th Century British Literature from the Univ. of Wisconsin - Madison.
Academic honorifics are funny. As a properly raised (despite it all, and even at my hippiest) Southern gentleman I always addressed my elders and seniors respectfully by their title or position; everybody and his little sister is a "sir" or "ma'am" to me and probably always will be, as far as social conversation, and definitely when I worked.
Forms of address for minority professionals became problematic at some point. I never called my black female boss by her first name, but then I never called white male bosses by their names either, unless they insisted, which was rare enough. Somewhere along the line, the formality became seen by some as-- wait for it-- a racist dodge. No matter, I just kept on doing it my way.
The Chronicle of H E used to use only Mr Mrs Ms etc, never academic credentials or titles IIRC.
The national bird of Jamaica is the "Doctor Bird," mon.
Narr
I don't know what credentials that requires
Back in the early 80s, when I told my Sicilian barbers that I was a grad student in philosophy, they laughed and called me "Perfessor". I stayed "Perfessor" to them for the next 25 years.
Now, one of my IT client's staff calls me "Doctor" [Insert My Last Name Here], mostly because, while many of these men do work on modern car engines that would make my head spin, they find my IT knowledge to be borderline mystical. It really isn't any more complicated than what they do, but it's not what they know.
But, these examples aren't about honorifics. These are about "chop-busting" & nick-naming as a bonding ritual in male work environments. I'm perfectly fine with it. After all, I'd rather be called "Perfessor" than "Moose" or "Stretch" or "Jug-Ears".
The Washington Post
Sebastian Gorka likes to be called ‘Dr. Gorka.’ He gets his way only in conservative media.
April 16, 2017 at 8:00 a.m. EDT
“My feeling is if you can't heal the sick, we don't call you doctor,” Bill Walsh, The Washington Post's late, great copy chief, told the Los Angeles Times in 2009.
The L.A. Times was writing, at the time, about the “Dr.” status of someone on the other side of the aisle: Jill Biden, wife of then-vice president Joe Biden, who has an EdD from the University of Delaware. Here's an excerpt:
Joe Biden, on the campaign trail, explained that his wife's desire for the highest degree was in response to what she perceived as her second-class status on their mail.
“She said, 'I was so sick of the mail coming to Sen. and Mrs. Biden. I wanted to get mail addressed to Dr. and Sen. Biden.' That's the real reason she got her doctorate,” he said.
Amy Sullivan, a religion writer for Time magazine, said she smiled when she heard the vice president's wife announced as Dr. Jill Biden during the national prayer service the day after President Obama's inauguration.
“Ordinarily when someone goes by doctor and they are a Ph.D., not an M.D., I find it a little bit obnoxious,” Sullivan said. “But it makes me smile because it's a reminder that she's her own person. She wasn't there as an appendage; she was there as a professional in her own right.”
We don't refer to Dr. Woodrow Wilson.
When I was getting my PhD, I was living at my parents' house. My father who had a PhD in Analytical Chemistry received science-related mail addressed to him with the classifying title "Anal Chem". Mine came similarly addressed, but as "Grad Stud". Much hilarity ensued.
Sargent Shriver?
He was in the same platoon as Sgt Pepper?
LLB dead but LLM masters offered as advanced law degree. So you have folks with JD going on to get LLM. Legal doctorate is JSD.
Birkel:
I will never call a person by their former occupation.
Retired judges should no longer be called judge.
Retired university professors are no longer professors.
Emeritus is bull shit, too.
No titles of nobility in these here United States.
Me: It should also be the same with politicians. It's such bullshit. You no longer hold the office, it's Mr., Miss or Mrs. or even Ms. if you insist
CHEFTHEOLDMAN
EDITORTHEOLDMAN
POSTMASTERTHEOLDMAN
Anybody that insists upon using the honorific "Doctor" that isn't either a tenured professor or a medical professional, probably got it for the same wrong reasons in the first place. I've known a few of them, and they are more hard work than they're worth. Miserable.
We seem to be coming full circle on the century. There was lots of investigation in the nature of universities, college-educated and even how to study in the early 20th century. Oddly, most before 1925 seems to have been "forgotten", especially after the 2nd generation of students who became professors started dying out in the 1970s/80s.
Consider this observation of the rise of the "degree-hunters" in the mixed American universities transformed into the Medieval university style after Johns Hopkins set the example.
"The university part of our mixed institutions consists of a graduate school, devoted to teaching and to research, certain professional schools in law, medicine, engineering, teaching, and, in some institutions, to theology. The graduate schools, apart from the professional schools, have suffered in considerable measure from the fact that they have been attended by a large body of students who are not primarily scholars or investigators. For the last twenty or thirty years every ambitious American college has felt that it could not maintain fair academic dignity unless its teachers were able to write after their names Ph.D. The graduate schools have been invaded, therefore, during the comparatively short period of their existence by an army of degree-hunters who desired the degree of Doctor of Philosophy as a preliminary to obtaining positions as teachers.
"The mingling of college and university has its disadvantages for the undergraduate college no less than for the graduate university to which it is bound. The most serious is the weakening of the college sense of responsibility for good teaching. A false notion of research in the conglomerate institution has gone far to discredit the good teacher and to weaken the appreciation of the fact that the chief duty of the college is to teach. "
--Scribner's Magazine Vol. 73, 1923, p556,
Are Our Universities Overpopulated? BY HENRY S. PRITCHETT, President of the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching
Much was made of the demotion of the teacher in favor of "research men". And I believe we can say the emphasis on degree-hunters increased rather than waned in the mixed college/university institution. (universities in this context containing graduate and professional schools)
" Can a true university, devoted to scholarship, to investigation, to high professional training, be developed out of a conglomerate institution whose undergraduate activities are mainly athletic, social, and competitive? "
rhhardin said... Doctor for MD isn't an honorific, it's a handy sign saying where to go if somebody needs medical help.
Nobody goes to an EdD for anything.
Ed.D.s are the main bureaucrats in the Education Scam, I mean system. People go to them for rules because the system is completely rule bound thanks to lawyers and EdDs.
My opinion is that dumb people need a lot of rules (i.e., structure) to function.
Makes me want to get one of those $100 shit internet degrees...maybe from a Divinity school and then insist that everyone call me 'doctor.'
Even my family : )
My surgeon friend (an actual surgeon who uses scalpels and everything) tells this joke:
What do you call the person that finishes last in their class at med school?
Doctor.
Surgeons in Great Britain are called Mister and are offended to be merely Doctor.
My opinion is that dumb people need a lot of rules (i.e., structure) to function.
Not sure it's just an opinion. People will drive into lakes and rivers because Google Maps said that's where they should go.
What's funny is when Joe slips up and calls her Dr. Phil.
Something seems off, if what Gilbar posted regarding her CV. I went to Upper Moreland High School, graduating in 1983. Upper Moreland is just north of Philadelphia. Ocean City, NJ is an hour and a half or more away. Besides, Ocean City was founded as a wholesome family retreat for a protestant church denomination (can't remember and am too lazy to check), it's dry, no booze or bars when I went there. We used to see the dipsomaniacs at the bridge on the way out waving money - think the opposite of pan handlers. They wanted folks to buy them booze while outside of the city, and bring it back for them on the return trip. As for the Dr. issue, I think it's a vanity thing. I'm terminal in my career, and have gone back and forth with my wife about going for more advanced degrees, but for what? I've less than 4 years til retirement, and quite honestly I would prefer people not address me at all, regardless of whatever honorifics they might employ. 'Just leave me the hell alone', which would be on my crest if I had had better forebears. I do not have any Latin, but I bet it sounds awesome. Probably have a porcupine in the center of the shield.
Let's all call her "Dr. Jill" Biden the way she wants. It sounds like a married Pornhub star and the essayist correctly felt the overtones. "Jills" have to be careful. ["I'm Dr. Jill ... and I do ... special education... advanced ... special ... education ... whatever I'm bidden."] He tried to warn her and FB hated on him. But, OK, "Dr. Jill", every time, if that's what her supporters want. I think it's wrong and we should do better by her.
We had it all
Just like Bogie and Bacall
Starring in our old late, late show
Sailing away to Key Largo
"Here's lookin' at you kid"
Missing all the things we did
We can find it once again, I know
Just like they did in Key Largo
Bertie Higgins really didn't know, but we octogenarians indeed had it all, kiddo - just like Bogie and Bacall knew it in 1948.
"Sailing away to Key Largo"
One of the all-time most insipid and annoying songs ever...
This comment from a women in his class what an inflated adjunct teacher he is/was: He told us rather proudly that he never lay awake at night worrying about the future of the blue whale (?). He NEVER called on the women in class, and spent most class time talking about how amazing he is. I imagine he would use the verb 'regale', clearly thinking he would have been welcomed at the Algonquin Round Table. There was one brave woman who insisted on talking. He ignored her
I once held the diploma of a friend wo had received a Ph.D.
This likely makes me a homeopathic Doctor.
What's the difference between First Lady Dr. Jill Biden and the Panama Canal?
Well. Ones a busy ditch.
At the tech outfit where I once worked our head of department had a PhD in physics with honors from Harvard. This came with a huge, elaborate sheepskin, in Latin, which he displayed on the wall behind his desk. If you were called on the carpet you got to look upon his works and despair. My own boss, who had a PhD in EE from OSU, displayed his eighth grade graduation certificate over his desk. The Harvard guy didn’t think that was very damn funny, but there was nothing he could do about it. Anyway, we were all on first-name basis.
What difference at this point does it make?
Kissinger, at least, had his degrees in the area of government in which he served as did Greenspan and Fauci. However, the LA County Director of Public Health is Dr Ferrer whose PHD is in social welfare. She’s the one giving us COvID dictat.
- Krumhorn
Who could ever forget the learned and highly esteemed Dr. Hunter S. Thompson?
The bio that gilbar posted makes Joe and Jill sound like Charles and Camilla.
To me the people who insist on calling her Dr. Jill are worse than Jill herself.
And to be fair to Whoopi, she used to be a comedian, so maybe she was telling a joke at the expense of those who think Jill is a real doctor.
"Perfesser Jill, can you fix da boat"? Gilligan queried.
Kissinger was once asked what the correct form of address for him. He replied, "Let's not stand on ceremony. You can just call me 'Your Excellency'".
Ann wrote that “it's women — and not men — who style themselves as ‘Dr.’ when they are not medical doctors.” That hasn’t been my experience. Most of the non-MDs I’ve met who used or instead on being addressed as “Dr.” were male educators, high school principals or superintendents of education, who had a D.Ed. and an inferiority complex.
I never heard Lynn Cheney (PhD literature) called "Dr. Cheney" nor Marilyn Quayle (Doctor of Jurisprudence) called "Dr. Quayle." And I cxertainly never heard that lapse described as misogynistic. Wonder why. What could possibly be the difference between them and DrJillBiden?...
"And to be fair to Whoopi, she used to be a comedian, so maybe she was telling a joke at the expense of those who think Jill is a real doctor."
You're giving her too much credit.
She's not very smart.
I've worked in academia for 31 years -- I hold a PhD (Mathematics, University of Washington) but have never asked anyone to use the title "Dr. Nielsen". In my experience, the people who insist on being called "Dr." always have an Ed.D.
It's a little bit like the adage "If you have to call it 'science' (ie, Potitical Science, Computer Science) it isn't." It's also true that "If you have to call it a doctorate, it isn't."
Not sure if anyone mentioned my favorite self-bestowed honorific by the one and only Idi Amin:
His full self-bestowed title ultimately became: "His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, CBE, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular", in addition to his officially stated claim of being the uncrowned King of Scotland.
This Dr Jill kerfuffle shows what is important to the entitled, credentialed crowd, which is most of academia, the media, and DC, but nobody else.
Robert Heinlein covered the usefulness, or lack there of, of an Ph.D in education in Number of the Beast
This is the same story were Zebadiah had to earn $1,000,000 on his own before he could start drawing on his trust fund.
"Anyway, if we can elect a serial liar and braggart like Slow Joe president, we shouldn't take issue with a small thing like addressing his wife as doctor."
Especially after having previously elected a serial liar and braggart like Don "I know more about that than anyone" Trump. The maxim "the more things change the more they stay the same" is nowhere more true than in American politics at the national level.
Education majors are the only people on any campus that are less intelligent than the journalism majors. Thankfully, they're not as arrogant.
Blogger Spiros said...
I don't think this is the right take. Instead, the hysteria is a reaction to populism's war on expertise and its resentment toward intellectualism. The Biden Administration is opposite -- it's all about bureaucratic expertise.
**************
It's not hysteria, and it's not a war on "expertise". Go ask any of those so-called elites to change a tire, fix a leaky faucet, change their car's oil, drive a big rig, ensure a working system to deliver water, electricity and gas....
Given our experience dealing with government and its manifest inefficiency and screw-ups, most of us think "bureaucratic expertise" is an oxymoron. Besides making regulations and shuffling papers, exactly what do bureaucrats DO that reflects "expertise"? NOTHING.
What wealth do THEY generate? NONE.
I had Dr. Hans Liepmann as an instructor for an aerodynamics/fluid dynamics class. He was a small, kind of mousy man with a kind of dished-in chest. He was a German who came to the U.S. in 1939. He was worthy of the title of "Doctor."
I read the 24 pages from the link someone posted earlier. Don't care enough to find the rest of it.
First thing that caught my attention was that her name was hyphenated in 2006. I think the story behind that and why she dropped it may be more interesting than the "Dr" uproar. Of course that was 2 years before Joe became VP.
I worked in higher ed and knew a number of people working on Ph.D's. Most said it was an exercise in jumping through hoops but were doing it to increase their paychecks or get a promotion. The statistic that caught my attention was that most thesis are never read by anyone after their completion - except possibly family and friends. Lots of work for little lasting impact.
I used to watch a TV show that involved a veteran story line - Jill Biden appeared on it a couple of times and, as I recall, went by Dr. Jill Biden. I gave her credit for her support of veterans. (Actually, I can remember thinking she might be the smarter than the Obamas or her husband.)
I also give her credit for the basic language included in the report. I was staff rep on a couple of faculty committees and sometimes they would try to use the longest words possible to say the simplest things.
As to the content of the report itself .. I worked in student services for a technical college and retention was a major part of our jobs. You could have submitted any number of school names for the one she attended and it would have been equally correct. In other words the content was generic and obvious.
I became a physician in the days when only 5 percent of physicians were women, so am proud to be called "Doctor". I worked for it: 8 years education and three years post graduate training. Hard work in the trenches: Think blood and guts and you get the idea.
But in the USA, the title "Doctor" is commonly used for physicians, dentists, and veternarians, i.e. those in the healing profession. So using "Doctor" for a PhD in Education not only is misleading, but is sort of watering down the meaning of the title.
My question to Jill Biden is not why she calls herself "doctor", but why she uses her husband's last name. I don't, because my MD and career was not dependent on my husband's glory.
Babelon Bee's news item:
Man Chokes In Restaurant, Dr. Jill Biden Springs Into Action To Deliver Educational Lecture
December 14th, 2020
WILMINGTON, DE — As Dr. Jill Biden and her husband went out to eat over the weekend, a man began choking on his Denver omelet. But lucky for him, Dr. Jill Biden was there, and she is a doctor.
"We need a doctor here!" cried a waiter. "Is there a doctor in the house?"
Dr. Jill Biden sprang into action. "I'm a doctor!" she said, rushing over. "I'm going to need a podium and a microphone, stat!" After a busboy hurried over with the life-saving tools she would need, Dr. Jill Biden thanked him and then began delivering a speech on meeting students' needs at the community college level.
"Thank you for having me here today," Dr. Jill Biden said as the bewildered choking man tried to call for a "real doctor," since he was obviously a misogynistic bigot. "Webster's Dictionary defines education as the action or process of educating." As she continued her intro, the man's face started to turn purple.
"There are three reasons community college being accessible for all is a net gain to society," Dr. Jill Biden said as the man started to lose consciousness. "First, good classes are good for people. We must increase positive educational outcomes by offering good classes for low or no cost. Good classes may include everything from tennis courses and physical education to math and even science."
"In conclusion, community college is good," Dr. Jill Biden said fifteen minutes later, after the man had died. "Thank you."
Dr. Ben Carson also happened to be there but was asked not to interfere as the media assured everyone he's not a real doctor.
My father was a physician, an MD, so mail to the family was normally addressed to "Dr. & Mrs. Godfather". One of his colleagues, also an MD, was married to a woman who had a PhD in (as I recall) English Literature. So I asked Dad why mail to that family shouldn't be addressed to "Dr. & Dr. Impressive People". My father explained that the accepted practice for personal correspondence was to use "Dr." only for medical doctors (which included dentists and, in my father's view, vetinarians -- Dad was very impressed by the ability of vets to treat patients who couldn't explain what was wrong). So if a non-medical doctor was being addressed or referred to in connection with her/his profession, of course you would use the term "Dr." (or "Prof" or whatever). But you wouldn't use that term on Christmas cards or personal correspondence.
This was before law degrees were converted from LLB to JD, so every lawyer could, I suppose, insist on being addressed as "Dr." In the late '50's early '60's reporters who were trying to promote Fidel Castro liked to refer to him as "Dr. Castro", because he was a lawyer, and that was the accepted form of address for a Cuban lawyer.
After my law school changed its degree from LLB to JD I was given the option of changing my degree. I proudly refused. I practiced as an LLB and I retired as an LLB and I will die as an LLB.
Mr. Fearby: Thanks for posting that inspirational story of Dr. Biden's heroic action in that restaurant. If only Dr. Angelou and Dr. Castro had been alive and present for the occasion, the three might have teamed up to save the person's life. At least Dr. Castro might have ended the person's misery with a bullet to the head.
Solution: Always refer to her as 'Doctor of Education Jill Biden.'
Stolen Valor.
And anyway isn't Ph D a lot better? Pretty Huge D...?
Joe, as I'm sure he is called, is an old man. He remembers when standards were higher. He also knows bullshit when he sees it.
An Ed.D. is to a real advanced degree (MD, JD, Ph.D.) as a bacterium is to an elephant. In that sense, Epstein has a point, but he is fighting a trend of title inflation that is far bigger than him.
And, she is a Democrat married to a big-time Democrat pol. And, female.
So he's right but this is hopeless and not the hill to die on.
I only use my "Dr." honorific (obtained in particle physics, btw) for one reason: to get better service from airlines and hotels. It makes a measurable difference. In everyday life, I avoid it like the plague.
I have several comments about Dr Jill:
1) Several people in the comments have said she has a PhD. She does not. She has an EdD. An EdD requires about 75% of the course work compared to a PhD. Not the same thing at all. Not even close. It also takes a lot less time to complete a EdD than a typical PhD.
At one point about 10 years ago I kind of needed a PhD and found that an EdD does not count as one or even equivalent. I wound up enrolling in Walden University's PhD in Engineering Management program. It's an online program and my daughter enrolled with me. It turned out that they actually expected us to do some work. We just wanted the degree, had no interest in actually working for it so dropped out.
2)Someone sort of alluded to it indirectly but let me ask: What did she do to earn her EdD? Very little is required for any education degree (I speak from experience) but did she even do that?
I suspect that the president of the University of Delaware was in their Senator's office one day looking for a handout. Senator Xiden was musing "I'm having trouble figuring out what to get my wife for her birthday." To which the president replied "How about a doctorate?" We'll even pretend she attended class, There are no exams in ed school and she can submit whatever she likes as a dissertation."
To which Joe replied: "Sounds like a fine idea. Now how much taxpayer money did you want?
3) I have taught at different universities with an official title of "Adjunct Instructor" One US (SNHU) the other Puerto Rican (PUPR) In both schools common custom was to address anyone doing teaching as "professor". Even in official correspondence.
At PUPR, some of the students were people I knew professionally and was on a first name basis. They still called me "Professor Henry" but only in school. I was still John when I visited their plants. I did not know any of my SNHU students outside of school but they called me professor Henry.
4) In PR, all teachers, at whatever level, are addressed semi-formally as Professor/professora.
5) Titles are a big deal in Puerto Rico. Pharmacists, lawyers, surveyors, architects and a few other professionals are addressed as Licenciado. Because they are licensed by the state.
Engineers are addressed as Ingeniero so and so.
Not routinely, but when an honorific is required and Mr/Ms would otherwise be used. Also on business cards, correspondence and so on.
John R Henry A.S, A.A.,M.A.,M.S., F.R.S.A.(former), CPP(L), Changeover Wizard. (Please be sure to use all appellations)
the last is the only one that makes any money for me.
How come nobody mentioned my favorite doctor?
Doctor Johnny Fever? He could cure what ailed you.
John Henry
I can kinda buy in the argument that a person with a BS does not put The B in front of their name. If they dis there would be some hilarious moments. Or a person with an MS put a “Master”,, especially in this hyper-sensitive day and age. So why a person with a PhD should put a Doctor.
Having a PhD in engineering and not working too long in my chosen field of pecuniary, I used to joke that mine was good only to make restaurant reservations.
But seriously cancel someone for expressing a putatively eccentric view is a Philosophy of Demons.
Blogger John henry said...
John R Henry A.S, A.A.,M.A.,M.S., F.R.S.A.(former), CPP(L), Changeover Wizard. (Please be sure to use all appellations)
Oops, forgot the BA.
John Henry Changeover Wizard ETC.
The education masters is a real racket. Many states and educational districts actually make it a requirement for continuing employment as a teacher. Everybody wins!
The school district can tell parents how their kids are being education by highly skilled professionals. Why look, all our teachers have masters degrees. Few people know how meaningless the degree is and believe that it makes them better teachers. Some people, mostly teachers, know how meaningless it is but still believe it makes them better teachers.
2) Universities get to sell tens of thousands of Masters Degrees at $10-20m each.
3) Teachers get to deduct the expense and also get a nice raise upon graduation.
4) Taxpayers are relieved of the burden of how to spend their money. The state does it for them through master's programs.
It's a win-win for everybody!
John Henry
I worked on an Ed.D up until I had only 4 credit hrs and dissertation left. It was an exercise in putting up with BS. Teaching was my second career and it would have meant a raise in pay. I finally decided the BS just wasn't worth it and quit. People who can swallow leftest edu-crap ideology might find it easy. I didn't.
I spent about two weeks in the ed school in one of my first semesters in college.
Between the inane classes and a single afternoon at a public junior high school, I was reminded that I didn't really like school all that much and wouldn't fit in any better as an adult and authority figure than I did as a smartass doing the minimum to pass (and relying on those sweet sweet meritocratic IQ tests that rewarded my white male middle class ass for being so white, so male, and so middle class, not to mention such an ass).
Narr
The trifecta!
A friend pointed out that Shaquille O'Neal who also has an Ed.D., does not use "Dr." Does Althouse, or anyone of her acquaintance with a Juris Doctor degree, insist upon being called "Doctor"?
My dad had a JD degree. No one ever called him doctor.
In an official setting (and by that I mean the very limited circumstances of Jill Biden’s participation in some sort of educational symposium, or teaching a college level class) her “doctor” honorific may be appropriate, but not in any sort of casual setting.
Please google press or media discussions of the following and see if they are ever referred to or addressed as Dr
Condi Rice, Madeline Alibright, Angela Merkle, Milton Friedman, Albert Einstein, Jack Welch , George Shultz and these are actually PhDs with some serious scholarship behind them in competitive fields with real dissertations. Never called Dr by anyone interviewing them.
The NYT does not even call Paul Krugman Dr
This is such nonsense .
I worked with a woman chemical engineer back in the 80's who would not participate in what is now called Admin's Day, but used to be called Secretary's Day. We used to take our admins out for lunch and give them gifts. She didn't want people at the restaurant to think she was an admin. Now I can kind of understand her insult on one level, having worked so hard for her degree and all of that, but on another level, wasn't she essentially flat out saying to the admins that she worked with that she was better than them?
I seem to remember Dr. Laura Schlessinger being mocked mercilessly for the same affectation, but I don't recall feminists rushing to her defense.
"Dr." Jill Biden...as "real" as Joe's "win."
Dude was right. She's no doctor. Her dissertation on student retention and community colleges (a fairly low bar, right above a dissertation on financial aid at Lincoln Tech, no disrespect to Lincoln Tech intended)...meh. Would she have gotten that doctorate at the University of Delaware if her name was Grabolinsky and not Biden?
I agree. I don't think PhD's should be called doctor and I don't think chiropractors should be called doctors.
How do you pronounce phd? Fuds maybe (u for university)?
One of the letters sent to the WSJ re Epstein, claimed that Dr. Biden though "grit and determination" earned her degree. A 55 year old of independent means going to school is not exactly raising the flag atop Mount Suribachi.
"I'm thinking this "Dr." bullshit among women has gone on too long and is a marker of inferiority, so he's calling on Jill Biden to set a good example and drop the honorific. You don't need it, and you shouldn't want it. "
I don't think it is women, it is education. In our school system, most of the principals and senior administration are Phd's and all call themselves Dr., male or female.
If you have to tell people that you are successful and accomplished, you are neither successful nor accomplished.
Flashback to 2008-09 ...
We have a new star Michelle Obama, J.D. - Juris Doctorate
But never "Doctor Michelle Obama"?
Now 2020 ...
The Democratic party is basically a fraud operation, across the board.
Why not "Doctor Jill Biden"?
And the bonus of faux outrage/cancel culture visited upon anyone who would dare ask fair questions.
Delivering a baby is too low a bar.
As a physician, trust me: The baby is coming out, 9,999 times out of 10,000 no matter who is there to 'help'. Babies have also been delivered with the assistance of police, medics, farmers, vets, casual passers-by.
A much better standard is a person who as removed an appendix....
"A person living a comfortable life who goes back to school in an unchallenging field in middle age is someone who is bored and has the time and resources to show up consistently."
Jill's doctorate is equivalent to the other bored housewife profession, real estate salesperson.
Real estate agents--the successful ones, anyway--work really hard at their jobs.
EdD's, not so much.
Narr
I've tried the first, and know the EdD's well
I used to enjoy Epstein's writing. He was witty and a good critic, but he started to repeat himself and started just complaining about things. You don't want to be a curmudgeon at 10 or 20 or 30 because you miss too much. 40 or 50 is the sweet spot. If you're still playing the curmudgeon at 60 or 70 or 80, you're just another old guy complaining about the world today. He ought to have tried to explore a little and encounter new things instead of just raising the drawbridge and locking out the present-day world.
The low point was his book of email exchanges with Frederic Raphael. Two old kvetches kvetching ad nauseum. Epstein sort of goes out the way he came in: his controversial 70s essay on homosexuality has left him a ripe target for cancel culture for some time. Still, it's hard not to feel sorry for Old Joe Epstein. Slightly younger Joe Biden probably thought the same way back then.
And Epstein was right about Jill Biden. "Dr. Jill" is a pretentious affectation and leaves people like Whoopi and me feeling cheated when we discover that after years of assuming that she was a "real" doctor that she was only a Doctor of Education. And that "kiddo" was endearing. Very much a 1930s/1940s thing that reminds me of people who were around back then and aren't with us anymore.
A few things that are simultaneously true ...
The title "doctor" originated in the late middle ages as a title for scholars who could teach their subject at the highest level. It had nothing to do with delivering babies.
The American aversion to calling scholars "doctor" is a sign of insecurity.
Americans with PhDs who insist on being called "doctor" are generally jackasses.
I work with a bunch of people who have a PhD in a real discipline -- at least it seems real to me. None of them use "doctor" but sometimes people call us "doctor."
Americans who object to calling PhDs "doctor" are generally jackasses.
If there is anything that can match an arrogant PhD, it is an insecure jackass.
EdD degrees are worse than worthless. Almost no EdD is scholar or worthy of any title of special respect. EdDs who want to be called "doctor" are the norm bc they are all jackasses.
Neither an EdD, a JD or an MD have anything to do with scholarship, advancing knowledge.
Many PhDs -- especially from "studies" depts -- are now worse than worthless. But many PhDs are more difficult to get than ever. In my field, the current crop of students is much better educated than they were 30 or 40 years ago.
People who do real PhDs in real fields are scholars and generally have accomplished much more intellectually than the typical MD.
There is nothing wrong with being an MD, but--by itself-- it doesn't make you a scholar.
This topic is going to turn into one of those stupid "left v. right" litmus tests.
I thought the LL.B. degree became the J.D. because lawyers married to doctors got tired of the special attention and one-upmanship that doctors got ...
Not that the J.D.s actually called themselves Doctor in public ...
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