Althouse: "The man formerly known as 'Junior,' who later became 'Bush 43,' was amazingly helpful, dishing the sort of inside-baseball detail and real-time dialogue that reporters dream about."

September 9, 2020

"The man formerly known as 'Junior,' who later became 'Bush 43,' was amazingly helpful, dishing the sort of inside-baseball detail and real-time dialogue that reporters dream about."

"He was totally fearless in analyzing the campaign; after all, he answered to only one official, his father, who’d recently introduced us at a White House reception and encouraged him to cooperate. And none of the anonymous reporting would be public until after the polls had closed. After an unusually productive interview, I gratefully thanked him for his candor. 'Now, let me ask YOU a question,' he said with a smirk. 'When this thing comes out I’ll probably be asked about some of this stuff. I’ll have to say it’s total bullshit. Are you gonna have a problem with that?' I assured him that wouldn’t be bothersome. Sources often deny inconvenient truths on the record that they’ve leaked on background."

Writes Tom DeFrank in "'I’ll have to say it’s total bull***t': How political sources play the anonymity game/George W. Bush dished on his father's campaign, with the understanding that he'd later have to deny it. Such arrangements have long been part and parcel not just of journalism, but of politics" (National Journal).

The occasion for DeFrank's story is, of course, Jeffrey Goldberg's recent suckers-and-losers article in The Atlantic. DeFrank ends his article with: "The White House response to this story has been so turbocharged not because of anonymous sources, but because it rings true, and they know it could damage a key component of his base."

It could! I tend to think it "rings true" to the people who already hate Trump, and not to his base. Or to the extent that it rings true to anyone in his base, it doesn't damage him, because they feel they understand the way Trump talks, with an edgy sense of humor and they think that if he said it, it was within a context of truly caring about the people in the military — because look at how he allowed them to win the war against ISIS, how he's ended conflict, avoided new conflict, built up the military, and improved access to medical care.

By the way, I love the new admiration for George W. Bush. Remember when he was Hitler?

63 comments:

rehajm said...: 'Rings True' is a new 'fact' checker category?

Remember when fact checking was a thing, sometime before every sentence out of Joe Biden's mouth was a Four Pinocchio™ Whopper™?; 9/9/20, 7:49 AM
Michael K said...: BushHitler has enlisted in a greater cause. Get Trump !; 9/9/20, 7:50 AM
Birches said...: I don't think this revelation is going to play the way the writer anticipates. Yet another illustration that the Bushies are swamp people.

There's twenty one people on the record and actual contemporaneous documents showing why the trip was cancelled, but the Bushes were duplicitous with the press one time so obviously this story is true. Does the press realize how unhinged they appear?; 9/9/20, 7:50 AM
jamrat said...: That it’s another bullshit story being peddled by a mendacious press rings truest of all.; 9/9/20, 7:52 AM
Mr Wibble said...: The sudden newfound respect for Trump when the next Republican wins the White House is going to be hilarious.

OrangeManNotSoBad!; 9/9/20, 7:54 AM
Birches said...: Trump attempts to pull more troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and someone (who could it be?) starts leaking he hated soldiers. I wonder what their motivation is?

W gets to be respected again because he never withdrew any troops ever. Haha; 9/9/20, 7:55 AM
Mr Wibble said...: Also, New York Times Co. v Sullivan needs to be gutted like a Tijuana hooker.

Let Justice Thomas' pimp hand fly free!; 9/9/20, 7:57 AM
buwaya said...: It says something that "Junior" felt he had to undermine his own fathers campaign.
If true this says quite a lot about his character, and the Bush family dynamic.
If this had come out in 2000 it would likely have harmed his own campaign.; 9/9/20, 7:59 AM
Lurker21 said...: "Sources often deny inconvenient truths on the record that they’ve leaked on background."

They also take things out of context and spread gossip and speculation, and they have been known to say things that are flat-out untrue. It's hard to underestimate how much score settling, backbiting, and infighting that go on in campaigns and administrations. How much of what Bush said was fabricated for his own ends or his father's?; 9/9/20, 7:59 AM
Dan in Philly said...: I'd you live long enough for the next GOP administration you'll find a strange new respect for Trump, too!; 9/9/20, 8:02 AM
mikee said...: "Rings true" is the "fake but accurate" standard of Dan Rather, used against this very person.

When I say, "Joe Biden has dementia," I can list the symptoms of dementia and then demonstrate that Joe Biden exhibits those symptoms using real, well-documented behavior of Joe Biden.

When these bastards say, "Rings true," they are saying they have zero proof, but the story reinforces their desired narrative. "Rings true" is a standard well below, "You won't believe this, but..." or "Have another beer and listen to this..."

I, for one, remember during Watergate when Deep Throat's guidance to Woodward & Bernstein about Nixon required factual, public confirmation from multiple sources before it could be published. And that anonymous source was a Deputy Director of the FBI, supposedly a reliable person.; 9/9/20, 8:03 AM
stevew said...: Interesting to note that these folks always point to the volume and intensity of the denial as an indicator of the truthfulness of the story, the louder they deny the more it is true. Except when they totally ignore the story, that's an absolute indication of its truth.

And, yes, I do remember when Bush 43 was literally Hitler. Chimpy McHitler too.; 9/9/20, 8:11 AM
Quayle said...: In a for-profit news reporting world, the CFO doesn't really care one way or another whether something is true or not. They only care if it captures readers and viewers who can be sold to the paying customer, the advertisers. Oh, sure there is a component of reputation that must be considered. But that is all part of the product dressing - a product management decision on where to set the dial. The "news" at the grocery store checkout line has decided to set the dial on "trust" quite low as a product management decision.

"News" is fish bait; whatever catches the most fish is what is put on the hook.; 9/9/20, 8:13 AM
Robert Roy said...: I think the response to this has been so "turbocharged" because they finally found a way to legitimately get under Trump's skin, which is to portray him as feeling in the opposite manner to his true feelings and in an egregious way.

I think they've touched a nerve by slandering an actual core value of his.; 9/9/20, 8:16 AM
Leland said...: I doubt Trump's base has much use for either The Atlantic or National Journal. Many don't even have much use for W.; 9/9/20, 8:17 AM
Temujin said...: So, let me see. He's calling bullshit on people calling The Atlantic's report bullshit when everyone knows that people in Washington speak nothing but bullshit and then either accept it or deny it all the time, every day of every week. And it is precisely why typical hard working Americans of all stripes, are too busy just trying to get by in this world and regard both politicians and Journalists! as pretty much the lowest forms of life.

There are no professions with lower ratings among random Americans than politicians and Journalists! So- this nothing story keeps getting propped up and people who live normal lives and are not part of the Journo-Political species are just ignoring it.

Remember Dan Rather's fake, but accurate attack on George W. Bush? It was not a one-off. It's the standard.; 9/9/20, 8:17 AM
Kate said...: Bragging about how much of your business relies on liars is not a persuasive argument.; 9/9/20, 8:17 AM
Bill, Republic of Texas said...: Let me see if I understand the new spin.
The story has been debunked by official records and on the record withdenials of the people in the room.

Let me see if I can understand the point of this story. We can't believe the official denials because sources lie to the public and that is ok with the reporters who look like they are corrupt and incompetent. Is that about it?

So we had "fake but accurate" to explain how Dan Rather's forgeries were really good journalism and now we have "debunked but accurate" to explain how this story's implosion does not make it false.; 9/9/20, 8:18 AM
roesch/voltaire said...: It rings true because of Trump’s long list of examples denigrating the military and because we know Trump lies about everything he does.; 9/9/20, 8:19 AM
roesch/voltaire said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/9/20, 8:19 AM
mezzrow said...: I tend to think it "rings true" to the people who already hate Trump, and not to his base.

When I think of the people who want this to be true so badly, I think of a Gary Larson cartoon from the previous century. This is the one with a dog hiding behind a clothes dryer with a series of "CAT FUD" signs pointing into the open dryer door. A cat looks into the open door. This story is classic CAT FUD, as have been the previous efforts in this vein.

To believe this will work in the real world requires one to believe that dogs can write (but not spell) and that cats both can and will read it and take instruction. I'm skeptical. I hope the cat in the cartoon is skeptical, not curious. If you're prone to jump in after this stuff, you better hope the dog is too dumb to figure out how to close the door and turn on the dryer.

It's your only chance.

Follow this link for the image:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8d/80/17/8d801749123aa8a5ea4e28c8df49d6d3.jpg; 9/9/20, 8:21 AM
M Jordan said...: “ By the way, I love the new admiration for George W. Bush. Remember when hewas Hitler?”

Yes but Trump is literally Hitler. Big difference.; 9/9/20, 8:32 AM
Limited blogger said...: How 'bout we don't care about YOUR bullshit, MSM?; 9/9/20, 8:33 AM
dbp said...: It's nice to know that ChimpyMcHitlerBurton is now a persona grata. Assuming Trump lives another 10 years, I am sure all will be forgiven and forgotten and he will again be a media darling.; 9/9/20, 8:33 AM
TrespassersW said...: Please, r/v. It "rings true" because you want to believe it because Orange Man Bad because y'all suddenly realize what a complete disaster Biden is as a candidate because SHUT UP they explained!; 9/9/20, 8:33 AM
Josephbleau said...: "Rings True" is just a way of saying that it conforms to my prejudice. The media is the reservoir of prejudice.; 9/9/20, 8:33 AM
Tom T. said...: "You can know we're telling the truth because our sources lie all the time" is not especially persuasive.

Notice too how DeFrank doesn't recognize how he was being flattered and played: "Sure I might like to ordinary people, but I would never lie to *you*, Tom."; 9/9/20, 8:38 AM
mikee said...: Journalism today, explained by Gary Larson: With a hat tip to Iowahawk.; 9/9/20, 8:38 AM
Michael K said...: R/V is sure it is true because reasons !; 9/9/20, 8:52 AM
ConradBibby said...: The Atlantic story doesn't work because it doesn't advance any existing narrative. It's asking people to believe that Trump is a heartless monster when it comes to veterans and the sacrifices of military families where there's nothing in his (extremely well-scrutinized) background suggesting that he holds such beliefs. (OTOH, an attack like this would work pretty well again a Bill Clinton or John Kerry because they were always understood to have "issues" with the military.)

The reason DJT pushed back so hard is therefore not because the Atlantic landed a punch, but because he saw that the story advances one of HIS well-established narratives: the press corruptly peddles fake news to try to hurt him politically. He completely turned the story around and comes out ahead because of it.; 9/9/20, 8:56 AM
rcocean said...: More bullshit. Did you know Joe Biden said he supported Epstein and wished he'd gone to pedo-island with Ms.Maxwell? No evidence that I can disclose, but it has a "Ring of truth" to it. Fake but accurate.

We don't need to read 2nd hand gossip about Trump that "maybe true" or "Has the ring of truth". By the way, Bush telling the reporter some background information on his fathers campaign, isn't unusual. But I sincerely doubt that Bush said anything that was the basis for a hit piece on Bush-I, OR that he made up Gossip about people he didn't like. And if an anonymous source had told Goldberg that trump was doing something great it wouldn't have been printed by The Atlantic.

Bottom line: Public discourse and politics is cheapened and damaged by stories based on anonymous sources. These kind of stories - with no evidence to support them other than mysterious unnamed people - should be few and far between, and there should be a GOOD REASON for them remaining anonymous. But today its the exact opposite. Almost EVERY attack on Trump is based on anonymous sources, and when we've found out their identities, they're usually lying or distorting the truth to hurt Trump. The Press is now an unpaid arm of the DNC, they don't write the truth, they write what helps Democrats.; 9/9/20, 8:56 AM
Retail Lawyer said...: GWB was not just Hitler, he was Chimpy McHilterBurton. Then we endured 8 years when you couldn't point out that POTUS resembled a primate.; 9/9/20, 8:58 AM
rcocean said...: George W. Bush - reading a biography of him. Didn't realize he's run for Congress in Texas in the 1980's and lost. Or that he put together a group to buy Texas Rangers but put in very little money himself. He also wasn't the manager of the team, he was the CO-manager. Like Romney he basically got where he did only partly through talent. it was mostly connections and being the son of a President. even his oil business was financed by family friends.; 9/9/20, 9:00 AM
Ken B said...: The “sounds like Trump” argument misses an important psychological point I think. Trump trashes critics or adversaries. Individuals. He did trash McCain. He did trash Tillerson. He trashed a lot of individuals. But he seems genuine about troops. He stood hours in the hot sun to shake the hand of every graduate of a military academy, he stood in the rain the day after that cancelled trip, etc.

In the end it’s like every appeal to prejudice. “Sounds like Trump” = “sounds like what I could falsely charge about Trump and be believed”.; 9/9/20, 9:01 AM
Lloyd W. Robertson said...: As Kaus says, Franks's big analogy, between Bush Jr. then and Bolton now, doesn't work. Bush Jr. was motivated to call bullshit on his own observations, when quoted in print, because he wanted to keep sucking up to his father and the whole Bush Sr. administration. Bolton has burned his bridges with the Trump administration. Presumably if he calls bullshit on a specific conversation, that is because it is bullshit. Sorry Franks, you flunk intro logic, you have become extremely stupid because of TDS, you don't know how to commit journalism or what it looks like, or (more likely) all that matters to you is trying to hurt Trump, even if you don't know how, and you are a disgrace even without getting into "who's a fascist now, wise guy?"; 9/9/20, 9:07 AM
wild chicken said...: The local paper, seeking the local angle, reached out to the Legion commander (Vietnam vet) for his reax. Lol. He deflected, and noted how the left used to oppose all the wars, and so did Trump, but now they're all concerned with vets' feelings.

It's all very peculiar innit.; 9/9/20, 9:10 AM
Lee Moore said...: "By the way, I love the new admiration for George W. Bush. Remember when he was Hitler?"

I do. All past Hitlers become cuddlier in comparison with the current Hitler in situ.
Indeed, I am very confident that if the actual Hitler was running in 2020 against Trump, CNN would be rooting for the guy with the toothbrush moustache.; 9/9/20, 9:26 AM
Nonapod said...: To me this whole affair speaks volumes about the current state of the campaign. Clearly they're getting more and more desperate. As the election draws closer I fully expect more outrageous flat out lies about Trump will leak from mysterious "sources". The Democrate-Media-Complex will flood the channel with bullshit in a desperate attempt to sway the swing state persuadables. But it will only serve to further damage their own reputations.; 9/9/20, 9:32 AM
Wince said...: That NJ excerpt convinced me of nothing else other than Trump stands against some of the most despicable people, insiders who go back decades on deceiving the public.; 9/9/20, 9:34 AM
Amexpat said...: I think transparency is the answer to a lot of the problems we're facing.

For malfeasance by POTUS or other high ranking officials, a public accusation must be made. It's to easy to fabricate off the record quotes, or have internal leaks for personal gain.

For sexual harassment or any other illegal workplace activity, NDA's should be banned.

For posting on FB, Twitter or forums like this, there should be some way of verifying the identity of the person posting.; 9/9/20, 9:51 AM
Left Bank of the Charles said...: You left out the cruel neutrality explanation: it does ring true to his base but his base shares the suckers and losers viewpoint.; 9/9/20, 10:08 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: Birches said...
I don't think this revelation is going to play the way the writer anticipates. Yet another illustration that the Bushies are swamp people."

Smarter leftists (that is, people who do not post at Althouse) have figured it out. I was interested in reading comments at Matt Tabibi's website and one former Bernie voter who is now considering voting for Trump pointed out that all the GOP and neo con bigwigs supporting Biden are the same people who lied us into Iraq. As distasteful as Trump is to that commenter, he doesn't want to be on the side of the warmongers.

R/v has no such problem, because r/v is eager to believe any lies his masters tell him.; 9/9/20, 10:11 AM
Anagram Margana said...: He wasn't just Hitler, he was literally Hitler.; 9/9/20, 10:32 AM
buwaya said...: "I think transparency is the answer to a lot of the problems we're facing."

Nowhere, at any time, has there been any significant transparency in the development of public policy. This idea of transparency may be empirically inhuman, as humans never seem to behave this way.; 9/9/20, 10:36 AM
RichardJohnson said...: Althouse:
By the way, I love the new admiration for George W. Bush. Remember when he was Hitler?

Yup.Not only Hitler, but also a chimp.

Ten to fifteen years from now, Demos will be telling us that Trump was the "reasonable Republican," compared to the HORRIBLE Republican President or Presidential candidate de jour.

I once had a discussion with a Canadian on another blog who was informing us how HORRIBLE Donald Trump was. There used to be good Republicans, like Mitt Romney, the Canadian told us. Except that it was easy-peasy to go into the blog archives and uncover an old comment the Canadian had made about how HORRIBLE Mitt Romney was.; 9/9/20, 10:48 AM
roesch/voltaire said...: Just one of many examples:⁠ After Iran's retaliatory strike, 109 US troops suffered brain injuries. Trump dismissed these as "headaches"; 9/9/20, 11:03 AM
J Melcher said...: There is a comparable scandal about to break about VP Pence pulling strings to overturn the recent conviction of his niece Caroline for credit card fraud. She makes $100k restitution, the conviction gets reset as a plea deal with rehap and the VP preserves his image as a great guy. Good old uncle Mike. Joe. Whatever. Look it up. Big news. Mostly accurate, rings true, generally consistent with court records...; 9/9/20, 11:07 AM
Narayanan said...: "Sources often deny inconvenient truths on the record that they’ve leaked on background."

-----------
"compact of mutual hostages' or how to creating an establishment - where pols think they have upper hand; 9/9/20, 11:27 AM
MadisonMan said...: After an unusually productive interview, I gratefully thanked him for his candor
I note that the interview is not termed truthful.; 9/9/20, 11:52 AM
Big Mike said...: Remember when he was Hitler?

I also remember when killing Dubya was thought to be a cool thing to suggest over on the left (down to Bush’s head on a pike in “Game or Thrones,” though I presume the saner among them must have realized Dick Cheney coming to power on the heels of a presidential assassination would not have gone well for the extreme left.; 9/9/20, 12:08 PM
Big Mike said...: Did you know Joe Biden said he supported Epstein and wished he'd gone to pedo-island with Ms.Maxwell? No evidence that I can disclose, but it has a "Ring of truth" to it.

Well, if you’ve seen Joe Biden getting all handsy with adolescent girls (on national TV, no less!) then Biden on Epstein’s island becomes very plausible.; 9/9/20, 12:15 PM
Rick.T. said...: It only rings true to some people because of the empty space between their ears.; 9/9/20, 12:30 PM
Amexpat said...: Nowhere, at any time, has there been any significant transparency in the development of public policy. This idea of transparency may be empirically inhuman, as humans never seem to behave this way.

Don't disagree with the main thrust of this. But there are many things that are an innate part human behavior that may not be in the best interest of a well functioning society. Without a civilizing restraint, humans would revert back to a natural state where rape, battery and murder would be the norm.

Greater levels of transparency can only come about through laws, written and unwritten. If there is a consensus that it is reasonable to know who is financing an elected official then laws can be passed to make that known. If we get tired of all the trolls, left and right, that pollute public discourse in social media, then we could gravitate towards and legitimize those forums that did not allow for total anonymity.; 9/9/20, 12:52 PM
Jim at said...: You left out the cruel neutrality explanation: it does ring true to his base but his base shares the suckers and losers viewpoint.

How cute. A leftist thinks it's conservatives who have a history of shitting all over veterans and the military.; 9/9/20, 1:18 PM
n.n said...: Bush 43 ended the Iraq War that had started with Bush 41 and persisted through Clinton. Obama instigated Iraq War 2.0 or the Greater Middle East War, thereby forcing catastrophic anthropogenic immigration reform and a trail of tears in a social justice adventure. Trump has ended Obama's wars and mitigated their progress that was directed from Iran.; 9/9/20, 1:35 PM
Yancey Ward said...: DeFrank is trying to imply that the people issuing the denials are the actual sources for Goldberg's story. However, if this were really true, Goldberg would have already outed such a source.

I suspect DeFrank is lying about Bush, too.; 9/9/20, 1:41 PM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: It most assuredly doesn't "ring true". I believe Trump likes, respects and admires soldiers, at least those below the rank of major.; 9/9/20, 2:23 PM
Gravel said...: My son is a Sergeant First Class in the Army; his attitude towards officers is ... not one of admiration. He's a college grad, and when offered the chance to become an officer (back when he was a specialist) he turned it down flat. He doesn't even want to associate with officers.

Point being, Trump's reported attitude towards brass isn't going to hurt him with the rank and file, at all. In fact, it will probably be a net positive.; 9/9/20, 3:01 PM
hstad said...: Blogger Nonapod said..."...To me this whole affair speaks volumes about the current state of the campaign..."

I agree - "Biden's" campaign is non-existent and on life support. It's only shored up, poorly, by the MSM with easily debunked narratives like those from "Goldberg".; 9/9/20, 3:53 PM
FullMoon said...: I believe Trump truly likes and admires military and police. Because they are physically "tough guys". He also admires and respects blue collar workers because they know and can do stuff he is ignorant of.; 9/9/20, 7:21 PM
Joanne Jacobs said...: Trump-hating John Bolton was there and said the Atlantic story is untrue. That's very persuasive to me.

I don't think a story about Pence's niece will help Democrats. It opens the door to stories about Biden's son (drug abuse, corruption) and his brothers (corruption).; 9/9/20, 7:31 PM
Joanne Jacobs said...: Mike Pence's son is a Marine Corps pilot.; 9/9/20, 7:37 PM
ColoradoDude said...: Wannabe vs, Hasbeen.

That’s the contest here.

Media folks, whatever their position or status, wannabe “greats.” So they diss a current president...seeking to downgrade him (or some day her) and boost their own position and ego.

Once a president loses or is term-limited out, then they can be far more benign. After all, they are currently holding an *important* job. And the Ex-President is, voila, a hasbeen, someone who can be looked down on.

Only JFK managed to escape the media’s double-barreled shotgun.; 9/10/20, 9:18 AM