August 30, 2020

"Also, lol at the hair-splitting of: I don't want these writers to be canceled — I just want them to be stopped from getting published anywhere ever again! Reminds me of that old joke: 'We're not lost — we just don't know where we are!'"

Writes jaltcoh.

72 comments:

rcocean said...

Can we start using the word "Censored" instead of "Cancelled". We need to make it clear, this is no different then other censorship in the past, and just as bad. Being "cancelled" makes it seem like you're just not renewing a subscription or not picking up a TV show for another season.

Big Mike said...

Niall Ferguson’s Civilization: The West and the Rest is a book that is well worth a read (available, of course, via the Althouse Amazon portal). He explores what he sees as the seven reasons why the USA dominates the rest of the world, and he is generally quite persuasive. Sorry, Cookie, but he compares the US and our defense of property rights, with countries that don’t support property rights — and are impoverished as a result.

I read Matt Taibbi as a lefty, but not a blind lefty. In some ways he is a canary in the coal mine, warning his fellow leftists of what is to come if they don’t begin to ground themselves in reality, and soon. Applying cancel culture to him would be like coal miners saying “The canary’s dead — more oxygen for the rest of us!”

cubanbob said...

It would be nice if all of the names mentioned were decent enough to voluntarily stop writing their swill. However stopping them from being published is another thing completely.

Michael K said...

Stephen Pinker is a national treasure.

J. Farmer said...

Same dynamic with the open borders crowd. Very few of them actually advocate open borders, They simply oppose any efforts to prevent open borders so that we have de facto open borders if not de jure.

YoungHegelian said...

Such a dumb, myopic view of the world.

No, it's not. It's the view of totalitarians of every stripe everywhere. They created dozens of regimes in the 20th where they put repression of speech & thought into practice & tens of millions died as a result. In this case, it's promulgated by a woman who's probably a Stalinist, even if she wouldn't use that term of herself.

The would be censors are may be closed minded & often stupid, but they are still dangerous.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

I don't want these writers to be canceled — I just want them to be stopped from getting published anywhere ever again!

Translation:

"I don't want these writers killed (at this time) — I just want them to be stopped from getting published anywhere ever again!"

What? You thought cancelled meant something else?

gilbar said...

back when i was in Junior High school; i used to say something very similar:
"i don't want you Dead, i just want you off of this planet"
even back then, i meant it to be sarcastic*


sarcastic* yes, it's a Low form of humor; but, i WAS in Junior High at the time

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

I think this fits.

Where's Kate's Antifa mask? In her top drawer?

wildswan said...

"I don't want these writers to be canceled — I just want them to be stopped from getting published anywhere ever again!"

If you're a conservative, you've learned how to let your eye identify and your mind glide on by ridiculous, repetitive statements from The Outer Stations of Stupid on the other sides. Apparently, if you're a liberal, you brake sharply when you notice garbage and inhale deeply, savoring the stench, and then leap down in it and roll about like a dog on old bones, and then you suddenly bounce high in the air, keening shrilly: "Oh! Oh! Dirt!!! Oh! Contamination! Oh mercy me, a malarkey heap crawled up behind and mauled little me!!!! Oh,! Oh! CANCEL!! CANCEL!! Oh, cancel culture is out?" Whirls to new in a trice. "Oh! Oh! Never! let! me! see! that! thought! again! in! print! or! anywhere! - but", simpering, "Free Speech Forever!" Then, frowning awfully: "Let the writer freely work in a grocery store or whatever."

traditionalguy said...

Great Cultural Revolutions sneak up on people, like the Japs snuck up on Honolulu. And then FDR removed their asses from their next target area which was our West Coast. He did that 3 months after Pearl Harbor and three months before Nimitz stopped their attack carriers cold at Midway. Let’s see what Trump does to the ChiCom financed Maoist rioters attacking inside our country this time. Going to be a hell of an election.

BADuBois said...

Fascists gotta be fascists.

loudogblog said...

It's funny how people want have it both ways. "I don't X to happen. I want Y to happen. And even though X and Y are, really, the same thing, I want everyone to publicly know that I do not want X to happen."

BUMBLE BEE said...

Yeah it's getting clearer... https://www.unz.com/isteve/surprise-surprise-vicky-osterweil-author-of-in-defense-of-looting-used-to-be-willie-osterweil/
a movement of sorts.

mccullough said...

The Far Left is winning its struggle with The Left. As predicted.

Temujin said...

When the right wants to cancel books, it's censorship. When the left wants to cancel books, it's in pursuit of intellectual purity and honesty.

Such charlatans. Poseurs. Hypocrites.

Kevin said...

Love the post. Of course in the comments there is cancelsplaining.

The left is constantly telling everyone they're just not woke enough to see the stark differences between themsevles and the totalitarian state.

#sure

Lucien said...

Is Kate Antonova real, or just a low-rent Titania McGrath? Is this the state of internet “literary criticism”?

themightypuck said...

Pinker and Ferguson are prolific scholars. They are not mere public intellectuals which I suppose you could say about the rest.

Sebastian said...

Agree with jaltcoh, but --

Just typical prog arrogance, no? "I think x is vapid, therefore no one should publish x."

And of course, if someone does publish x, they are evil and must be ruined.

"Cancel culture" is a euphemism.

gspencer said...

"I don't want these writers to be canceled — I just want them to be stopped from getting published anywhere ever again!"

Thanks for clearing the confusion. At first I thought we were dealing with a distinction without a difference.

mandrewa said...

"The Red Elephants" was just banned on YouTube. I don't know a lot about about "The Red Elephants," but I had watched a few of this man's videos, and my impression is that they were fairly well done and that these are pretty normal conservative views. Of course anyone that produces a lot of YouTube videos isn't actually normal, but I'm talking about the ideas that were being expressed.

YouTube's intolerance is escalating.

Red Elephants is now on BitChute. See The Red Elephants: Kyle Rittenhouse vindicated as new information surfaces. The media is going to pay big time.

Now I don't like BitChute. The big problem with it is that unless you know what you're looking for, you can't find it.

By the way, viewing the beginning of that particular video, it's clear there is a surprising amount of information out there about what happened say in the Rittenhouse shootings. So many people have cell phones after all.

And if you're in the main stream bubble you're barely seeing any of that. YouTube, Twitter and Facebook are very actively trying to suppress and distort these videos from the incident.

So in this particular instance, we see Rittenhouse running very fast trying to get away from the people chasing him, and this is before anyone has been shot, the person holding the cell phone says, "Them's white boys." And then you see one of the people chasing Rittenhouse shoot a handgun into the air. And that's followed by a whole bunch of over shots, where you can't identify from the video where they are coming from.

I don't know how anyone can look at that, and not realize that that young man must have been terrified and believed that he was fighting for his life.

And, what kind of person can excuse the mob chasing him?

J Melcher said...

It's another manifestation of "politically correct" speech. It's not 'censored', because the politically correct enlightened woke interpretation of censorship only applies to government action. It's not 'violence' because the politically correct enlightened woke interpretation of 'violence' only applies to injury, and that to a member of an oppressed group. It's not racism because the politically correct enlightened woke interpretation of racism only applies to the majorities' viewpoints about minorities. It's not sexism when the politically correct enlightened woke interpretation of being sexist only applies to how inferior men treat superior women. It's not theft under the politically correct enlightened woke interpretation of 'looting'.

Terrorism. Rape. Torture. Investment. Dangerous. Hunger. Education. Sex. Gender. Marriage. There is a whole dictionary of formerly ordinary and commonly understood words that are now, if used in their original sense, politically INcorrect, but are still used in the newspeak correct way to shame the traditional and "adjust" their thinking.

I hate it.

Bilwick said...

I'd like statism to be cancelled, permanently.

MadisonMan said...

Is Kate Antonova real
I assume so, as her tweets are protected.

Anonymous said...

>Can we start using the word "Censored" instead of "Cancelled".

Cancelled is far worse than mere censorship. "Censored" just means you can't publish. "Cancelled" people get fired, can't get new jobs at all, can't get payments processed, can't open a bank account, can't go to a restaurant, can't register domains, get kicked out of school (w/o refund of course), can't get professional licenses, can't get apartments, etc. (and note, these are all real cases, not hypothetical).

Francisco D said...

I enjoy listening to Brett Weinstein and Heather Heyer's podcasts (ex-Evergreen State Biology professors). They have the naïveté of many academic liberals, but they strongly stand for Free Speech, scientific method and rationalism. They abhor who they call "the regressive left" rioting in the streets and controlling many universities.

Ironically, after being forced out of Evergreen, they moved to Portland. They strike me as one of the few (Andy Ngo included) honest reporters of what is happening there.

I doubt if they will ever take the red pill like Dave Rubin and others. However, these are the people we need to fight the Marxists totalitarians that are currently ascendent.

mandrewa said...

So continuing with this look at a real person that was cancelled two days ago, and whose thoughts now have no chance of "trending" no matter how interesting they may be, here's an interesting quote. To put it in context, after listing a number of facts that mainstream media narrative about Rittenhouse has gotten completely wrong, The Red Elephants says,

"But once again, thank goodness for social media because we are able to combat this mainstream media narrative once again. Thank goodness for his lawyer who has a social media account because he is able to combat this mainstream media narrative once again ... If he is wiped off of Twitter, when does the word get out? Who finds out about it? If we are all gone from these social media sites, how does this word ever spread? And this is one of the reasons why the GOP needs to get it through their thick, geriatric skulls that social media censorship needs to be the top issue to them."

William said...

I read the first volume of Niall Ferguson's book about the Rothschilds. Fairly interesting for a book about bankers. Anyway, the Rothschilds served as sort of the central bank of Europe for a time. Ferguson notes that they were more inclined to loan money to countries ruled by constitutional monarchs who were at peace with their neighbors. They didn't do this for any ideological reasons. These were the countries that were most inclined to pay off their bonds. The Pax Brittanica was to some degree a result of the Rothschilds' fiscal policies. It is interesting to read Ferguson's reasoned arguments and research and compare his book to the hostile way leftists back then and today describe the Rothschilds and their money.....The writers mentioned are not all that conservative, but they are the only writers that someone living within the bubble is likely to encounter. Exterminate the brutes.

Sebastian said...

"Blogger Michael K said...
Stephen Pinker is a national treasure."

Not bad for a Canadian.

Joe Smith said...

"Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."

Openidname said...

A complete collection of Steven Pinker's so-called "clickbait" would fill a library shelf and weigh -- what, about 16 pounds?

The Crack Emcee said...

Andrew Sullivan and %The Daily Kos are the only two outfits I know that's politics is inspired by astrology.

That's reason enough for them not to be published.

Narr said...

Pinker and Ferguson are BOTH national treasures.

The latter's The Square and the Tower is worth a read in this context.

Narr
Available somewhere around here . . .

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

MadisonMan said...

Is Kate Antonova real
I assume so, as her tweets are protected.


It appears she is a professor of (oops!) Russian history at Queen's College, CUNY.

tcrosse said...

“Blacklisted” is a term whose time has returned.

Narr said...


Since I had never heard of Prof. Antonova, but had read at least some of all the bad boys' works, I was intrigued.

Narr
That's one dumb cuny


Paul said...

"I don't want these writers to be canceled — I just want them to be stopped from getting published anywhere ever again!"

Sounds like something Hitler or Stalin or Mao would say. Ban everyone that disagrees.

Lucien said...

Gee, I wouldn’t feel “safe” taking a class from her, fearing that she’d retaliate against me if I said, or even failed to condemn, anything that disagreed with her.

DavidUW said...

Who will rid me of this troublesome priest?

gilbar said...

I don't want these writers to be canceled — I just want them to be stopped from getting published anywhere ever again!"

serious question
how long, before when the left says "cancelled" they stop meaning censured, or blacklisted; and start meaning terminate with extreme prejudice

It's a Brave New World we live in; and a Lot of people don't surf

Static Ping said...

Fascism is bad. I'm a good person. Therefore anything I believe is not fascism.

The logic of the age.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

Prof. Kate Anotova: "No one should ever publish Andrew Sullivan, David Brooks, Matt Taibbi, Matt Ygesias, Steven Pinker, or Niall Ferguson ever again. Not to "cancel" them but because they have nothing of value to add and never have. They produce vapid, superficial, baseless clickbait"

Yeah, Kate. Lotta that goin' 'round.

n.n said...

They want to abort the baby and keep her, too. Surely, they are riding the fringe of a double-edged scalpel.

n.n said...

“Blacklisted” is a term whose time has returned.

Blacklisted, whitewashed, yellow-bellied, brownnose... Orange you glad for equitable semantics. The diversitists are apoplectic in their insidious class-based taxonomic systems, processes, and beliefs that betray their racism, sexism, etc.

mandrewa said...

This isn't an example of cancelling or censorship or blacklisting. This is just someone venting and being hyperbolic.

I doubt she would actually do that if she had the power, but if she did, she is absurdly far from the having that kind of power.

Now in contrast, I wonder about Matthew Yglesias, cofounder of Vox. I do wonder if there are people out there that Matthew Yglesias has doxed or tried to get fired or helped to cancel.

NCMoss said...

She could have saved a few pixels and simply called them racists; isn't that how it's done these days?

DanTheMan said...

>>The Far Left is winning its struggle with The Left. As predicted.

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."


I guess we will find out if the center cannot hold.

Spiros said...

Professor Antonova is a sadistic bully who enjoys hurting wimps like Matty Yglesias.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Blogger rcocean said...Can we start using the word "Censored" instead of "Cancelled". We need to make it clear, this is no different then other censorship in the past, and just as bad. Being "cancelled" makes it seem like you're just not renewing a subscription or not picking up a TV show for another season.

No. We cannot say censored when it IS canceled.

Not only do they not want you to speak. They want to to be canceled from your job. Canceled from any clubs or organizations you may belong to. They want to to be canceled from appearing anywhere. From being allowed to exist in public without being harassed.

They want to do everything up to but not including canceling your actual life for disagreeing with them


They want to CANCEL people. Not just censor.
The actual cancellation of your living breathing life....soon to come.

loudogblog said...

"Andrew Sullivan and %The Daily Kos are the only two outfits I know that's politics is inspired by astrology." Yup, definitely day drinking.

bagoh20 said...

For the most devastating and sobering example of "We're not lost — we just don't know where we are!" we have this:

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has published a report stating that just 6% of COVID-19 deaths listed the only cause of death as coronavirus and no other comorbidities."

"For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death"

So it's all been a big effing lie. Life destroying liars. For something that killed 6% (1/17th) of what we were told, we destroyed our economy, robbed people of seeing their loved ones in their final days, or being with them when they passed, we robbed them of funerals, weddings, graduations, birthdays, sports, school, and almost every communal or public joy of life. We separated families, destroyed businesses, and careers. We arrested people for going to work, or the gym. We got into heated arguments which sometimes turned violent. The media terrified millions of people everyday from the moment they woke up until they fell asleep.

Why? Because we have a culture of liars: Lying experts, lying pundits and lying journalist, lying bureaucrats, lying politicians, lying health official, and endless lying organizations making money off stoking our fear. I will never forgive any of it, and I'm not feeling too good about those who fell for it hook, line and sinker with no skepticism despite all the clear evidence shown to them over and over.

I really wish I had no reason to say it, but we told you so.

mandrewa said...

I don't know who Kate Antonova is or what her politics are, but since she wasn't part of an online mob, and in fact this was a comment on a private forum, then she wasn't actually trying to cancel these people. (Now I do realize that her comment was amusing.)

But here's another real cancelling, or attempted cancelling. It happened today.

Cassandra Fairbanks suspended from Twitter for defending Kyle Rittenhouse

By the way, is there a case here?

See this quote: "Lawyers from Rittenhouse warned Twitter that they intend to hold the platform "fully liable"".

bagoh20 said...

Lets not forget all the deaths from suicide and missed medical attention that we have and will still be enduring because of the biggest lie in history pulled off in perfect Hitlerian fashion.

bagoh20 said...

Imagine if Joseph McCarthy had a worldwide network of millions of crazed people behind him. There never would have been a need for blacklisting. That's kid stuff.

Bob said...

bagoh2o, got a link? Thanks.

Skeptical Voter said...

Wondering why I should care about what Professor Kate Antonova thinks, I looked her up. After all she could have been just a ragged bag lady standing on a street corner somewhere and yelling at the traffic as it went by. She would tell the world that writers X,Y, and Z had nothing of value to say. I mean that's what her rant sounded like.

But I was wrong. She's an Associate Professor of History at Queens College of CUNY. She's published a couple of books involving Russian history and the secret police persecutions of some people in the early 19th Century. With that background, couldn't she have achieved what she wants with these "non published authors" by sending them to Siberia? I mean that's what the Tsars and Stalin did with people guilty of wrongthink.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Yep McCarthy was right. Prescient if you will. They're having their night rallies in Portland, Seattle, Kenosha, Madison, D.C., Chicago, Denver, Lost Angels and others. Skinhead Pressley is calling for more, more, more.

Bob Loblaw said...

It's always a bad sign when someone puts a title like "prof" or "Dr" in their twitter handle.

Bob Loblaw said...

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has published a report stating that just 6% of COVID-19 deaths listed the only cause of death as coronavirus and no other comorbidities.

That means a lot less than one would think at first glance if they're including blood pressure on that list of comorbidities. Nearly everyone takes blood pressure meds at some point.

mandrewa said...

So I got curious about who Kate Antonova is. Other than the books she has written, which look interesting, I found these evaluations from her students. It is entertaining. The meaning of an "A" has changed from when I was in school!

Entertaining lectures. Lets you rewrite every written assignment. No tests! She really focuses on themes so no need to memorize any dates or details. 5 mini ID papers and two 4-6 page papers. As long as you hand something in on time, and do the easy weekly quizzes you will do well in the class!

One of the most knowledgable professors I've had at QC. The work is not overwhelming and you really learn important ideologies through her assignments. She is available after class
and gives a very clear criterion for what she is looking for. A great teacher and a pretty easy A.

There are quizzes every week with multiple attempts, no midterm and final, 5 ID paper(easy) and 3 papers(easy).

There four short essays and two long essays and then weekly quizzes. The only thing I like about the class was that we were able to grade ourselves.

As long as you hand something in on time, and do the easy weekly quizzes you will do well in the class! I would take any class she teaches!

You have weekly assigned readings that no one does. We have 5 mini papers and 2 essays. The mini papers we define a term such as fascism in one page.

She crams so much info into an hour, and includes figures and artistic movements that're beautiful and thought-provoking. She has this vibe like the academics from CUNYs golden age in the 50s-80s, I only wish the rest of her department was that good.

If you show up and follow her instructions you'll get an A.

It was because of her that I know how to write a ten page paper and not cringe about it.

Covers a lot of material, but she's very organized and is crystal clear about expectations. She assigned a ton of readings, but they're really for the papers, so you can choose which ones you read in-depth, and which you just skim.

She is probably the most ambitious, thorough, intelligent, and down to earth professor the history department at Queens College will ever know. They're extremely lucky to have her. She's tough but fair (work-load wise.) She's not a joke like Covington. If you need help with anything she's approachable and available.

bagoh20 said...

"That means a lot less than one would think at first glance if they're including blood pressure on that list of comorbidities."

The average was 2.6 (three) comorbidites. Lets say the 6% is actually twice that many, how about three times as many.

It's absolutely heartbreaking news considering what we did in response. Not that the evidence wasn't in plane view all along, but was purposefully ignored and discounted.

bagoh20 said...

Link is the CDC website:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

Going by what they have gotten wrong so far, maybe it's really negative 6%, and people with Covid live longer. I wouldn't be surprised.

bagoh20 said...

So say you have 5 or 6 comorbidites. Why they hell would they call it a Covid death. That can do nothing but make the data useless causing more damage. Who purposefully wants polluted data, especially when people's lives are at stake? People do. Many in health care, the media, and politics felt it was worth it. Isn't that reassuring?

bagoh20 said...

I said "plane view". That's right. You could see it from 30,000 ft.

J. Farmer said...

Pinker and Ferguson are BOTH national treasures.

Strongly disagree. Both are centrist, stalwart defenders of the status quo. Their center-right niche of meritocratic hierarchy, fiscal conservatism, social liberalism, and elite internationalism is a path to ruin for American civilization. They are not conservatives; they are whigs.

Narr said...

@Bob Loblaw--

You have convinced me NOT to change my handle to Professor Nosehair.

Narr
It was close

Michael K said...

Farmer needs to read "The Blank Slate," although it is probably too late.

Stephen St. Onge said...

        I have to defend Antonova on this one.  It is not hairsplitting to say 'I don't want X lynched, but I do want X legally executed after conviction for his capital crime.' Yet they would both end with X being dead.

        Similarly, 'Don't publish worthless work' is different from saying 'Don't publish ideas I disagree with.'

Stephen St. Onge said...

"agoh20 said...

"For the most devastating and sobering example of 'We're not lost — we just don't know where we are!' we have this:

" 'The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has published a report stating that just 6% of COVID-19 deaths listed the only cause of death as coronavirus and no other comorbidities.'

" 'For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death'

" So it's all been a big effing lie . . .

" Why? Because we have a culture of liars"

        We also have a culture of bloviating ignoramuses, who feel no need to acquire knowledge before spouting nonsense.

        I have a copy of my wife's death certificate handy.  It was issued in 2019, pre-pandemic.  The pre-printed form has an area for "Cause of Death," subdivided into "Immediate," "Underlying," and "Other Contributing Conditions."  There are entries in all three regions.

        IOW, almost all deaths other than violence or accident have multiple causes.

        Do yourself a favor, agoh20: stop digging.

Narr said...

Whigs, you say!

So if you're against "meritocratic hierarchy, fiscal conservatism, social liberalism, and elite internationalism," can we take it as given that you favor non-meritocratic hierarchy,
fiscal profligacy, social illiberalism, and non-elite internationalism?

Narr
Did I ever say I was a conservative?

Narr said...

It's probably a failing on my part, but I don't have a list of policies against which I check the work of public intellectuals like Pinker and Ferguson, or lesser lights like Taibbi and the others. Of course, I do have prejudices, preferences, and even principles of my own.

I generally read to learn about topics of interest to me, which often have bugger-all to do with current events. P and F make their arguments with some wit and erudition, and that makes them stand out regardless of the their responsibility for the ruination of America.

Narr
I didn't think they were all that influential on policy anyway