"Symbols are important... We have a symbol, unlike the court’s inability to recognize it, a symbol that is needed to unite this nation, this diverse nation, a symbol is the flag."
And if that statute didn't work, he wanted a constitutional amendment. He was ready to cut back the First Amendment. [ADDED: Here's video of Biden talking about that in 1989.]
I'm reading about this in the Washington Post — "Joe Biden used to agree with Trump on flag burning. Where does he stand now?" by Karen Tumulty.
A version of Biden’s legislation passed Congress and became law. On May 14, 1990, the day the Supreme Court heard oral arguments in a case challenging its constitutionality, Biden held a news conference and declared the government has a “legitimate interest” in protecting the flag. The court struck down the law, citing the First Amendment’s protection of free speech....That was entirely predictable, but Biden and others served their political interest by flaunting an intense desire to protect the flag.
As late as 2006, near the end of his 36 years in the Senate, he voted in favor of a measure that would have imposed fines of as much as $100,000 and a year in prison for anyone who would “intentionally threaten or intimidate any person or group of persons by burning, or causing to be burned, a flag of the United States.”...The idea there is to work with the "true threat" exception to freedom of speech and accomplish the political posturing.
Is this still Biden’s position? “This is a long-settled constitutional question, with the Supreme Court ruling that flag burning is free speech. For Donald Trump to try to politicize the issue is just that: politics,” Biden campaign spokesman Andrew Bates told me. He added that Biden does not support a constitutional amendment to ban flag burning....Here's that tweet:
The weaponization of patriotism against Democratic presidential candidates is a well-thumbed page of the Republican playbook, going at least as far back as George H.W. Bush’s attacks on his 1988 rival, Michael Dukakis, for vetoing a 1977 state bill that would have required teachers to lead schoolchildren in reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. But no one in memory has used it as aggressively as Trump, who throws around charges of “treason” with abandon.
On Wednesday, Trump retweeted a video put together by Senate Republicans that began with an image of a U.S. flag on fire and continued with more of protesters pulling down statues. “Since Democrats won’t speak out against the destruction happening in liberal cities across America . . . We will,” the Republicans wrote.
Since Democrats won’t speak out against the destruction happening in liberal cities across America…— Senate Republicans (@SenateGOP) June 30, 2020
We will. pic.twitter.com/femOwAe0Qm
Tumulty continues:
In his news conference on Tuesday, Biden threaded the needle on the question of taking down monuments, suggesting that while those commemorating traitorous Confederate leaders belong in museums, those to the imperfect men who founded the republic should stay up.We need Biden to answer tough questions about his past support for this kind of legislation. I want to hear him speak about it, not get stuck with the coldly packaged material from the spokesman. Things like: "For Donald Trump to try to politicize the issue is just that: politics." Look at Biden's record. He politicized the issue himself, so by the spokesman's own formula, it was also just politics for Biden. You have to make the inference yourself.
“There is a difference between reminders and remembrances of history,” he said. “The idea of comparing whether or not George Washington owned slaves or Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, and somebody who was in rebellion committing treason . . . trying to take down the union and keep slavery. I think there’s a distinction.”
But I want to see Biden confronted with the question: Your spokesman said that for Donald Trump to try to politicize flag burning is just that — politics. Was it also just politics when you used your power as a Senator to try to criminalize flag burning?
Posts
74 comments:
Video currently unavailable.
I want to see Trump jab Biden with his past record in a public debate.
All those "virtuous" Dems who will enthusiastically (or even begrudgingly) vote for Biden as a means to rid the nation of the execrable chump Trump do so with blinders on that they will be voting for someone who is easily as horrid as the chump they want to see gone!
I thought that burning was the proper way to dispose of an American flag.
Presidential politics. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and coxcomery.
Does no one know why all those military bases in the South are named after confederates?
The Federal Govt wanted to “occupy” the south so that there would never be another rebellion. That’s why so many military bases are in the South. But, how do you occupy a rebellious people? Easy, you name the bases after their heroes.
It was a massive Trojan Horse campaign and it worked.
I mean, you’re not going to put Fort Sherman just south of Atlanta. But, call it Ft. Benning and the ex confederate morons welcomed it. And they didn’t have a clue that the Federal Government had checkmated one of the South’s largest cities.
Nobody is going to confront Biden with questions. That is not the job of a Free Press. It's in the First Amendment that the job of the Free Press is to provide cover for those in need of cover. So they will cover Biden, not confront him.
Oh boy oh boy, wait till people find out Biden's great-great-grandfather was a slaveowner that fought on the Confederate side during the civil war! Won't that be fun!
Joseph J. Biden (1828-1880).
Ask him whether it's a crime to burn the Republic for which it stands.
“The idea of comparing whether or not George Washington owned slaves or Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, and somebody who was in rebellion committing treason . . . trying to take down the union and keep slavery. I think there’s a distinction.”
Doesn’t Biden understand that the reason Washington and Jefferson are heroes is because they were in rebellion and were trying to take down the union ( with England.) Joe does not seem to be smart enough to frame a consistent argument that is resistant to attack, thus he did not get rich in law but did get rich in politics. Politics is law for stupid people.
I don't see the president and Joe being far apart on a lot of issues. Joe's problem is he is not running on his visioy. He's running on the vision of today's mob
If I were the wapo, I wouldn't be amplifying that video.
If I were the gop, I'd be playing it everywhere.
It's fascinating how Biden is presented as having a clean slate. He's been in politics since Christ was a teenager, he has an extensive record on all sorts of things. And yet it's as if he's this fresh, new face that doesn't have any kind of background to account for. It's all so yesterday, so not relevant, so over and done and already looked at, why do those evil Republicans keep bringing stuff up, trying to tear the great man down.
I guess the point is that Biden spent over 40 years in government and nothing he did or said or thought ever mattered at all. That's got to be an achievement of sorts, right?
The Biden of yesterday would not be the Biden of today. The Biden of yesterday would not be the Dem nominee. They would splash red paint on him. They would dox him and shout from bullhorns in front of his house.
Today's Biden is as malleable as a piece of play-dough. Speaking only when handed the script. Only when asked a question by approved Journalists! and others. He has the bearing of a sack of russet potatoes.
Today's Biden would give the answer he is handed. Today's Biden, if he becomes tomorrow's President Biden, will be the first actual puppet we've had acting as President. A far cry from the current President who, if nothing else, is no one's puppet.
It's fascinating how Biden is presented as having a clean slate. He's been in politics since Christ was a teenager, he has an extensive record on all sorts of things. And yet it's as if he's this fresh, new face that doesn't have any kind of background to account for.
The eternal sunshine of a spotless mind.
.....and I was taught, that you're supposed to burn the flag, when it was no longer suitable for display!!!
“We hold these truths to be self-evident... da da da ... you know the thing!”
The Federal Govt wanted to “occupy” the south so that there would never be another rebellion. That’s why so many military bases are in the South. But, how do you occupy a rebellious people? Easy, you name the bases after their heroes.
Sorry, no. The bases were set up to train for World War I, not occupation. States were given the right to name the bases to get them on board with the eminent domain actions.
Susan said...Presidential politics. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and coxcomery.
Despite the misspelling, we have a winner!
Biden is a liar and an opportunist.
Alternative title:
How Trump Lost Me
Am I becoming too cynical?
My first thought is how does this help Biden? It’s the Washington Post after all.
My answer:
It helps Biden by as if a vaccination by releasing it now, so it’s old Political controversy news reducing the opportunity for Trump to use closer to the election.
It's an anti-mob sentiment to burn the flag. Anti-mob is good. That it's a right wing mob doesn't matter.
Confusing loyalty and patriotism with idiot symbol reverence. That's certainly a first amendment protected idea.
Biden is a liar and an opportunist.
Alternative title:
How Trump Lost Me
mockturtle said...
I thought that burning was the proper way to dispose of an American flag.
Context matters.
One is done out or respect, privately.
One is done to incite and enrage in a public setting.
I haven't seen Trump accusing people of treason "with abandon," rather, he has publicized some really vile anti-American actions taken by people, and called them and those actions treasonous. Once again, Republicans "POUNCE" is the story, when the real story is what the Republicans are talking about, the vile anti-American behavior of others, usually Democrats, but once in a while, Never Trumpers.
Also, the only important thing about Biden now is that he has dementia, and should NOT be running for president.
Fact:
“Since Democrats won’t speak out against the destruction happening in liberal cities across America . . . We will,”
Mischaracterization 1:
"The weaponization of patriotism against Democratic presidential candidates"
Mischaracterization 2:
" Trump, who throws around charges of “treason” with abandon"
In two sentences she converted opposing riots and lawlessness resulting in murders to treason. In this way essentially any opposition is presented as extreme and thus illegitimate. Propaganda 101.
Sally327 said...
I guess the point is that Biden spent over 40 years in government and nothing he did or said or thought ever mattered at all. That's got to be an achievement of sorts, right?
And every bit of it courtesy of MBNA.
“Oh boy oh boy, wait till people find out Biden's great-great-grandfather was a slaveowner that fought on the Confederate side during the civil war! Won't that be fun!
Joseph J. Biden (1828-1880).”
Fact Check: Joe Biden's great-grandfather didn't own slaves, fight for Confederacy
Nor did his great-great grandfather.
Tom said...
The Federal Govt wanted to “occupy” the south so that there would never be another rebellion. That’s why so many military bases are in the South. But, how do you occupy a rebellious people? Easy, you name the bases after their heroes.
They'd already done that from 1865 to 1876, got bored with it and quit.
Speech is speech is -- whatever. Burning is speech. Dancing too (still?). Anyway, whatever. Whatever our overlords say.
"Biden threaded the needle on the question of taking down monuments, suggesting that while those commemorating traitorous Confederate leaders belong in museums, those to the imperfect men who founded the republic should stay up."
Museums? I thought these belonged in landfills and lakes, not museums. I thought they were to be gravel on the highway to the immaculate future.
Look out, Joe. Danger to your left.
If it doesn’t come from the candidate, I don’t care.
There are no surrogates or spokespeople in the Trump Era.
I'd like to know when we're going to rid our country of the offensive government god speech in the constitutions, pledges, oaths, anthems and currency of the land. I've solved the problem of god on bills with a paper punch and a paper drill, but I can't do much about the others.
1990: Your ‘act’ is speech. (Small lie).
2019: Your speech is violence. Our violence is speech. (Bigger lie).
202: Silence is violence. (Bigger lie, yet).
Democrats stand for vacillation: on abortion, on integration, on homosexuality, on immigration, on gay marriage, on socialism, on the Constitution, on incarceration, on Iraq, on #believe women, etc., etc., etc. There are no active Democrat pols whose careers have spanned the relevant era who have not changed positions on major issues to accommodate shifting public winds. None!
Even now, rioting, looting and Marxism have been subsumed under their phony “anti-racism” platform just as allowing the police to protect property and lives has been excluded.
Even at the time, 1989, I recognized that burning the flag was not really a big deal. Didn't like that others did it; wouldn't do it myself. But it was a symbol. Biden's response comes from the same thinking shared by all tyrants or would-be tyrants. Deprive others of freedom. Damn, they hate the First Am., don't they?
I would never burn the US flag unless it was against the law.
That ad is weak. Who cares about flags and statues when criminals are violating people in the streets en masse, trampling our rights while Dems give them space to destroy? Show BLM and Anti1A in all their infamy rioting, burning, and bullying, not a parade of feeble politicians blathering about symbols, and how things need to be done in an orderly fashion, and America isn’t perfect, blah blah.
Russia Collusion Truther Inga (who, by the way, just yesterday confirmed she still believes the ENTIRE 2017-2019 Collusion Hoax): "Fact Check: Joe Biden's great-grandfather didn't own slaves, fight for Confederacy
Nor did his great-great grandfather."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
USA Today fact checkers!!
Great timing Inga....do you know why?
Just yesterday, YESTERDAY(!!!), USA Today "fact checkers" informed us that democrats did not start the Civil War and did not start the KKK!!!!!!
Literally!
USA Today sounds like a very "reputable" "fact checking" source.
Summary for those who like to keep track of these things:
Our media has now absolved the democrats from any connection to:
- Slavery
- The Civil War
- The KKK
- Jim Crow
- Segregation
And now the lefties want Mt Rushmore blown up.
Its been quite a month as our marxist/maoist/socialist/history-rewriting dems have let it all hang out.
My great-grand-father (whose first name I share) and his relatives fought hard and well for the Confederacy. He joined Wilson's 16th/21st Tennessee Cavalry in the spring of 1863 as a 17 year old and served with his little brother, until parole as a Sergeant in 1865.
So he was probably at Ft Pillow (Bray's Brigade) and Brice's Crossroads; if his descendants are anything to go by he probably got his licks in.
My older aunts recalled picking "buckshot" out of his skin in the 1920s. Don't know if the family had or craved slaves, but will find out some day.
The USG located so many military installations in the Southland during the world wars BECAUSE THE WEATHER IS MILDER. That fact, along with the cheaper land and labor, is all the explanation you need. The naming was a indeed a sop to local feelings.
Anyway, my uncle Jimmy (the slumlord ha), only son of a widow, served as a radioman-gunner on a B24 in the Med in 1943-1944. He used to send half his pay home to support granny and his two little sisters, and their live-in woman of color.
My father was the only son of German immigrants who arrived in this country in the years before WW I. He served as a pilot (B25) and eventually a flight leader in the 381st Squadron/310th BG (M) from Nov 1944 to VE-Day, returning with a DFC.
We always, naively I suppose, thought those facts were enough to offset the sins of serving the CSA and arriving in the USA later than someone else's ancestors did (like my mother's family, here for the Revolution) . . .
Narr
Blood guilt--it's not just theological anymore
Just don't burn a rainbow flag. You'll do hard time for that.
I don't want there to be a law against burning a flag. I do think that the act should be construed as fighting words if onlookers happen to take offense and try to prevent or avenge the act.
I despise, detest, and distrust the WaPoo. The NYT, too!
Inga said... Fact Check: Joe Biden's great-grandfather didn't own slaves, fight for Confederacy
I see Inga vigorously researched the claim, thanks to Google and Snopes.
Why does it matter what one's great-grandfather did?
Nothing Burger: Doesn't taste bad and not very filling
'"I think there’s a distinction.”
We need Biden to answer tough questions' That was a tough question. Is there a distinction between the still imperfect moral geniuses who built a republic based on freedom that still stands as a beacon to the world - and people steeped in a culture of slavery who fought to preserve the worst feature of their society?
Thank you, Joe. I think there's a distinction too.
Once you've opened the door to hate crimes (hitting me is bad, hitting me and calling me a ***** is doubly bad), you allow crimes against symbols.
The answer: Prosecute them for unsafe burning. Drop all hate crime charges.
Yes, people should be allowed to do some unpleasant things.
It wouldn't be the first symbol protected by law (e.g. hate crime) or social contract (e.g. bullying) upon penalty of cancellation, assault, or battery.
@Inga
Inga Inga Inga it is the current year! Biden is responsible for proving his great and great-great granfathers weren't slavers and confederate sympathizers...we wouldn't want to be giving less than equality in the short-shrift department right? Trump is responsible for proving he's not a Russian agent after all, so Biden needs to prove his lineage contains no confederates in the attic, Snopes be damned!
I know affirmatively - before you even say so - that you agree with me 100%. Thank you for your support.
"I mean, you’re not going to put Fort Sherman just south of Atlanta. But, call it Ft. Benning and the ex confederate morons welcomed it. And they didn’t have a clue that the Federal Government had checkmated one of the South’s largest cities."
Cool story. Wrong in all respects, but whatever.
The clip at the Post - the stiff voiced questioner and Biden's "Well, Bob.." response has got to be a Saturday Night Live parody from the Akyroyd/Chase days.
...as if his prior record on anything- voting in Congress, rape, his mental state- have any bearing to how people will vote this cycle.
...what Sally said...
All those "virtuous" Dems who will enthusiastically (or even begrudgingly) vote for Biden as a means to rid the nation of the execrable chump Trump do so with blinders on that they will be voting for someone who is easily as horrid as the chump they want to see gone!
...another Taranto 'Evergreen'.
Biden is a liar and an opportunist.
Alternative title:
How Trump Lost Me
...please come clean up my spit take.
I went to the link about Jo Biden's great grandfather
The link say that
A) that wasn't the right name
B) he was born too late, and thus couldn't own slaves
THEN
It mentioned that
A) it WAS his great great grandfather's name ( missing one middle initial)
And that
B) that jo biden was a farmer in Maryland
NO MENTION OF WHETHER THAT BIDEN OWNED SLAVES
Which, is pretty close to ADMITTING THAT HE DID
I was going to ask the person that posted the link, if they'd bothered to read it;
But then I saw it was posted by Igna, and Igna has never read one of her posts in her life
Well they should leave Ft. Bragg alone. His “leadership,” especially his inability to hold Missionary Ridge with forces superior to the attacking force, did a lot to help the eventual Union victory. Also keep Ft. Polk because Leonidas Polk was an even worse Confederate commander. But it’s okay to rename Ft. Lee — name it after Revolutionary War hero “Lighthorse Harry” ... Lee.
Well they should leave Ft. Bragg alone. His “leadership,” especially his inability to hold Missionary Ridge with forces superior to the attacking force, did a lot to help the eventual Union victory. Also keep Ft. Polk because Leonidas Polk was an even worse Confederate commander.
Somewhere Jubilation T. Cornpone smiles..
Hillary Clinton also wanted to lock up flag burners.
Sebastian said...
Speech is speech is -- whatever. Burning is speech.
In what world is burning "speech"?
“NO MENTION OF WHETHER THAT BIDEN OWNED SLAVES
Which, is pretty close to ADMITTING THAT HE DID”
Are you retarded? I don’t want to be mean, but for pity sake...
Let's be real. It's a little unfair asking Joe Biden about his past record on this or any other issue as he can no longer remember his own birthday or his kid's names. Can anyone imagine Joe having a press conference trying to explain what he said back in 1989 and what he believes now? It's like asking my dog to do trigonometry problems. It's just mean.
And the video is gone.
Cleburne was one of the rare fighting generals in the Army of Tennessee. Almost every success can be traced to him. He did not get promoted because he was a progressive, and proposed that slaves be allowed to serve in the Confederate Army. Braxton Bragg was a well connected dumbshit. Hood was an opium addict, due to wounds and should have been sent home. I always thought that naming Fort Bragg and Fort Hood after them was a private joke.
If Hood had sidestepped Nashville and made a march toward Chicago there would have been nothing in his way, and he might have forced a peace treaty. Grant mentioned this after the war.
As we speak “Sandy Burgler” operatives are descending on county courthouses across the middle Atlantic states to find and burn any 19th century record containing the name Biden.
Blogger Lucid-Ideas said...Biden is responsible for proving his great and great-great granfathers weren't slavers and confederate sympathizers...
Put you're shirt on, Lucie doncha know urine the City? Big-time Dems get a free pass and you people don't. I don't make up the rules, so complain to Gaia
Camp, later Fort McClellan, in Anniston AL.
Narr
That had to hurt
Inga: "Are you retarded? I don’t want to be mean, but for pity sake..."
Remember, Inga now believes what USA Today told her yesterday: The democrats played no part in forming the Confederacy or the KKK.
Inga is really on a roll this month.
You'll have to forgive our lefties. They are still pretty jazzed up about the prospect of blowing up Mt Rushmore.
Here's the thing about ancestors, y'all: we all have a lot of them.
For instance, go ten gens back and you have over 1024 gene-contributors. And that gets most of us alive now back to 1800 or earlier (counting a generation as 25 years).
In the case of my and Schmoe Joe's great-great-grands, ancestral purity testing, to be certain, would need to investigate up to four or eight male ancestors for deplorable practices and prejudices. It's curious to me how much focus is given to paternal lines and namesakes.
Narr
A genealogist's dream--that you could monetize ancestral virtue!
Its a good thing the "reporters" who "interviewed" Biden the other day were so careful to stick to their carefully scripted and choreographed questions otherwise one of them might have accidentally asked Biden about him not wanting kids to "grow up in a jungle".
Well, that was certainly something, wouldn't you say?
Not to worry though. By tomorrow USA Today will have a "fact check" out that proves Biden never said that and in fact it was actually southern conservative republicans who made him say the thing he never said.
Josephbleau@306-- I wish I could put Hood's stupidity (which kilt some of my kin) down to laudanum, as the myth would have it, but apparently it's a myth.
Stephen Hood (a distant relation of JBH) has set it right in a recent book--not a bio but a look at how the druggie and other legends appeared and were propagated.
Narr
I love the smell of historiography in the afternoon
It is a sexist artifact of the patriarchy that no one cares if Beidens great great grandmother owned slaves.
The question of whether secession was constitutional, or not, was settled by force of arms, not legal argument, or the democratic process. The Union habit of referring to Confederates as traitors, to a country which they were no longer part of, is not logically justified. But, to the victor belong the spoils. However, no one alive today participated in that victory or that defeat. It would be nice if some people would stop referring to their fellow Americans and their ancestors as traitors. They were loyal to their duty as God gave them the light to see it.
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