The NYT reports.
Here's a PDF of the Supreme Court opinion. From the majority opinion:
[T]he plaintiffs cite new expert declarations suggesting that pentobarbital causes prisoners to experience “flash pulmonary edema,” a form of respiratory distress that temporarily produces the sensation of drowning or asphyxiation. But the Government has produced competing expert testimony of its own, indicating that any pulmonary edema occurs only after the prisoner has died or been rendered fully insensate.... It is our responsibility “to ensure that method-of-execution challenges to lawfully issued sentences are resolved fairly and expeditiously,” so that “the question of capital punish- ment” can remain with “the people and their representatives, not the courts, to resolve.” In keeping with that responsibility, we vacate the District Court’s preliminary injunction so that the plaintiffs’ executions may proceed as planned.From Breyer's dissenting opinion, which is joined by Ginsburg:
Mr. Lee was sentenced to death in 1999 and has now spent over 20 years on death row. Such lengthy delays inflict se- vere psychological suffering on inmates and undermine the penological rationale for the death penalty.... Moreover, there are significant questions regarding the constitutionality of the method the Federal Government will use to execute him.... [T]he solution may be for this Court to directly examine the question whether the death penalty violates the Constitution.From Sotomayor's dissenting opinion, which is joined by Kagan: "[T]he Court accepts the Government’s artificial claim of urgency to truncate ordinary procedures of judicial review. This sets a dangerous precedent."
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75 comments:
Wah. I care more about what the creep put that family through, and the trauma THEY went through.
It the liberal judges worry so much about his pain and suffering, then they should BAN abortion, because SCIENCE says the fetus feels the pain they are suffering from abortions.....but agenda is more important to them than actual babies suffering.
"so that “the question of capital punishment” can remain with “the people and their representatives, not the courts, to resolve.”
As opposed to the question of abortion, which, unlike capital punishment, is not even mentioned in the Constitution? Hey, Roberts, telll it to the people of Louisiana.
"Such lengthy delays inflict severe psychological suffering on inmates and undermine the penological rationale for the death penalty"
Now that's cute, even for progs. Delay long enough, and the "suffering" undermines the penalty. Prog judges, take notice.
"[T]he Court accepts the Government’s artificial claim of urgency to truncate ordinary procedures of judicial review. This sets a dangerous precedent."
Wait, so are decades of delay too long, or not long enough? Get your story straight, progs.
First as a strong supporter of Execution, I can no longer abide by the corrupt govt actors that we trusted to implement the death sentence.
From the executive branch that prosecutes death penalty cases, to the Judges in the Judicial branch that applies the law, corruption is run through and through.
That being said, I have never found the power of judges inserting themselves into the Legislative branches power to determine what would be "cruel and unusual" punishment based on any constitutional power. Subjective definitions belong to the people, as revealed by their elected representatives.
I remember a massive row years ago with my cousin who was vehemently anti-death penalty. The basis of his entire argument was 'cruel and unusual' and that lethal injection was cruel. I asked him if firing squad was cruel. Check. What about nitrogen asphyxiation? Check. What about fatal overdose of narcotics. Check. Than I asked what method - in his mind - wasn't cruel. Bingo. There wasn't one. For him - regardless of scientific basis or not - any death promulgated by the state was 'cruel and unusual' and the suffering aspect was simply the philosophical foil he employed to shoot down the idea that the people - and by extension the state - have the right to take your life (I mean if you technically want to get into it, we do it all the time).
Don't get fooled by these people and their 'cruel and unusual' argument. It is from the get go philosophically disingenuous.
So we have one dissenting opinion that says the process is not carried out quick enough and another dissenting opinion saying the process is happening too quickly. Got it.
"Mr. Lee was sentenced to death in 1999 and has now spent over 20 years on death row. Such lengthy delays inflict severe psychological suffering" He doesn't talk about 20 years in "normal" prison. Anyone who doesn't think that inflicts severe psychological suffering is lying.
Such lengthy delays inflict se- vere psychological suffering on inmates...
The classic killing 'em is too good for 'em argument...
First as a strong supporter of Execution, I can no longer abide by the corrupt govt actors that we trusted to implement the death sentence.
I'm an opponent of execution for the same reason.
I don’t see the problem with an execution that involves some pain and uncertainty. The victims weren’t granted that protection. As long as it isn’t cruel or unusual, meaning that there should not be maniacal laughter or evisceration, I’m fine with the outcome.
- Krumhorn
Judge Chutkan's name rings a bell to me. Was she in the news for a case related to the Russia investigation? or one of the nuisance suits against Trump?
Sentenced should be obliged to choose execution method from a given palette of options. Justice activists including federal and Supreme Court judges are free to add execution methods they view as acceptable to the palette. If the sentenced refuses to choose, execution method should be selected at random.
Do the anti-death penalty activists think that the millions of Americans who have their beloved pets euthanized every year via Phenobarbital are being "cruel"? The President chose the same drug that most vets choose to literally end the suffering of animals. The argument that it's "cruel" is just pretense by people opposed to the death penalty, not a serious argument.
"...for his part in the 1996 killing of a family of three." What were their names? Who were they? How did they die? Why did their murderer kill them?
Every news article about a condemned murderer's trial and execution should contain appropriate information about his victims, the circumstances of their deaths, and who they were in life.
As a matter of policy, rather than "painless" the method of execution should entail a high level of instantaneous horror in order to limit its moral justification to the worst crimes, and be meted out only when the factual certainty of guilt is above a moral certainty.
se- vere
Very curious about the inclusion of this hyphen in the opinion.
Abortion has nothing to do with capital punishment. Conflating the two issues to win a moral argument with libs is beyond folly.
Ok so if we’re going to consider the constitutionality (again) of the death penalty, a criminal sentence that existed at the time the constitution was written, and which could have been listed as “impermissible” or specifically defined as “cruel and unusual” (but wasn’t), it shouldn’t take long to recognize that it is not “unconstitutional”.
However, let’s just see how it’s held up in juxtaposition to abortion. Oh sure my body my choice and all. But there’s another life involved.
Sometimes I wonder why the left doesn’t simply make the only argument that is actually honest and consistent. They know they can change the constitution, but it’s so damn hard, so they’ll just get judges to “declare” the things that they want as constitutional rights, and “declare” the things they don’t want as “unconstitutional”. Easier.
Garbage, maddening, but easier.
If you don't want to die in a possibly slightly-uncomfortable way by execution, don't commit a heinous murder. Easy peasy.
I, too, am no longer a fan of the death penalty. It is not because of some philosophical position. It has become impractical.
"Such lengthy delays inflict severe psychological suffering on inmates and undermine the penological rationale for the death penalty"
This is a poor argument in that the convicted chose to pursue the 20 year appeal process. If he was suffering that much, perhaps he should have accepted his fate earlier. Perhaps we should eliminate the appeals process in order to protect the convicted of the cruel and unusual punishment of the process itself.
iowan2 does make a good point, however. Our government leaders and judges have mostly proven themselves to have feet of clay. I'd reserve capital punishment only for heinous crimes where there is no doubt whatsoever that the convict did indeed commit the crime. If there is any doubt whatsoever, I'd limit the sentence to life in prison without parole.
Mr. Lee was sentenced to death in 1999 and has now spent over 20 years on death row. Such lengthy delays inflict severe psychological suffering on inmates and undermine the penological rationale for the death penalty
Then I guess you creeps should stop obstructing the system and slowing down the punishments.
Win-win
Damn, the liberal justices ALWAYS vote as a bloc and ALWAYS for the liberal side. That's why we get these crazy rulings. What Robots!
Such lengthy delays inflict severe psychological suffering on inmates and undermine the penological rationale for the death penalty... [T]he solution may be for this Court to directly examine the question whether the death penalty violates the Constitution.
That seems like circular logic. We should delay the execution to determine if it violates the Constitution (it doesn't and never should, because if it is unconstitutional to ever kill anyone, then there would be no need to discuss depriving a person of life or whether Congress can declare war), and after we cause the delay, we should argue that the delay inflicted severe psychological harm. Heck, you could flip that argument easily and say that because delays inflict severe psychological harm; it is unconstitutional to wait longer than an hour after conviction to carry out the sentence.
This argument against this method of execution is just an example of the corruption that is slowly eating away our society. There is nothing wrong with being opposed to the death penalty- I am opposed to it, and there are firm, ethical grounds for doing so- but it is a completely different thing to oppose it on meritless grounds like done here by Chutkan. In fact, arguments like this, while being superficially effective at times, completely undermine the legitimacy of the opposition itself. Arguments like this made by Chutkan are transparently ridiculous, and only serve to discredit those who oppose the death penalty.
Isn't it a good thing that we execute white supremacists? (I mean, if we're allowed to punch Nazis, certainly we can fry white supremacists...)
Isn't helium asphyxiation serene?
Some people need killing. The problem is the government prosecution team is more concerned about winning than justice. Unless they have a higher standard for capital crimes and unless everyone convicted of murder 1 gets death, it's arbitrary who gets topped.
The death penalty should be carried out by a close family member or friend of those murdered by the perp. Any means used to administer the death penalty should be nobody's business.
I'm opposed to the death penalty, but these challenges, focused on process and method are just ridiculous. As Yancey says, the opponents of the death penalty on the Court are implying they are ok with the death penalty so long as the method of killing and the process to determine if it is just are in accord with some superficial and arbitrary judicial construct.
I don't think hanging or firing squad were ever considered 'cruel and unusual' before people started getting all weepy over capital punishment.
If there is any doubt whatsoever, I'd limit the sentence to life in prison without parole.
Would that doubt be a reasonable doubt or an unreasonable doubt?
Every news article about a condemned murderer's trial and execution should contain appropriate information about his victims, the circumstances of their deaths, and who they were in life.
I'd bet the nyt purposely omitted that information so their readers could imagine that the "white supremacist" had killed non-white people.
RNB said...
Every news article about a condemned murderer's trial and execution should contain appropriate information about his victims, the circumstances of their deaths, and who they were in life.
7/14/20, 8:46 AM
Hold on there sport! You can't have that sort of background and context in a story about something that the left leaning side of the country is against!
Now, if it has been [say] a Nazi-KKK-MAGA hat wearing, SOB that painted over a BLM mural while making the white power sign with his hands and singing rap music that contained the N-word that got beaten up by a passing peaceful group of youths of color, on their way to bible study, THEN context matters and you would have learn all about this vial stain on humanity to include interviews with his 3rd grade teacher that remembers he once wet himself during a math test.
"Judge [Tanya S.] Chutkan" yep another Obama appointee trying to make law. I was really surprised by the speed of SCOTUS overturning her ruling. Impressive.
Given the conjunctive "and" rather than a disjunctive "or" should not cruel punishments be allowed if they are usual and unusual punishments be allowed if they are not cruel? How about a gas chamber using nitrous oxide. Die laughing?
Denni Miller had a great comment on Capital punishment--"they call it cruel and unusual. If we did 10,000 executions per year, they would not be unusual. And it would only be cruel If they added karaoke."
For all of you who posted that I'm opposed to the death penalty - I could be persuaded - but for one major problem. Life imprisonment sounds less cruel and supposedly massages your consciousness into believing it's more humane. Both points are wrong! But I don't care, the main reason I am for the death penalty is I can't get any guarantees that these monsters will ever get out of serving life. In fact, the opposite has occurred. With the death penalty there is zero chance these monsters will ever walk the streets again. This pandemic is a perfect example of our corrupt system. Prisoners released because of the Covit virus andt crimes committed even the same day of their releases. What kind of logic is that? The same kind which subscribes to Life in Prison wishful thinking.
Denni Miller had a great comment on Capital punishment--"they call it cruel and unusual. If we did 10,000 executions per year, they would not be unusual. And it would only be cruel If they added karaoke."
I've never had any deep philosophical objection to capital punishment per se for a very short list of crimes, but I do distrust--deeply--the State to provide justice or fairness, especially in light of the last few years.
In this case I think the guy needs to take his medicine like a man already.
One thing that seems pretty consistent across the board politically is that the most vocal people on both sides (with some exceptions) really WANT their opponents to suffer, and the more the better.
I've seen some of our penal system and it has all the flaws of American society and none of the positives. It may be a necessary evil but it's still evil, and nobody should be gleeful about putting people there.
Narr
"Beware those who are quick to condemn and punish." Goethe
In her ruling on Monday, Judge [Tanya S.] Chutkan wrote that lethal injection by pentobarbital could expose the inmates to the risk of flash pulmonary edema, or the rapid buildup of fluid in the lungs that resembles the feeling of drowning or asphyxiation...."
I DON'T CARE.
Call me old fashioned, but let's bring back Ole Sparky. Strap 'em down. Light 'em up.
AllenS said...
The death penalty should be carried out by a close family member or friend of those murdered by the perp. Any means used to administer the death penalty should be nobody's business.
Can dull knives be used?
fusion judge, let the awan brothers go and not be punished for their crimes,
The only reason I've wavered on the death penalty is the fact that some inmates have been proven innocent years later. But there are some cases that are open and shut.
As to method, the first time I had a colonoscopy I thought it would be 'fun' to see if I could resist when being put under. People told me that it was a 'lights out' thing and I didn't believe that was possible. It is...when the nurse pushes that plunger it is about a second of fuzz and then black.
It seems that the same method could be used for executions except for changing the dose of course. The only 'pain' would be inserting the I.V. tube, but millions of people go through that every day.
“The Supreme Court delivered an unsigned 5-to-4 ruling, with Justices Stephen Breyer and Sonia Sotomayor dissenting. They were joined by Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Elena Kagan ...”
So, the usual suspects.
“Blogger tds said...
Sentenced should be obliged to choose execution method from a given palette of options. Justice activists including federal and Supreme Court judges are free to add execution methods they view as acceptable to the palette. If the sentenced refuses to choose, execution method should be selected at random.”
I like it.
the iowan that is up for execution, is one of vilest people ever.
Dustin Lee Honken, 51, was running a sophisticated methamphetamine operation when, in 1993, he committed the execution-style slayings of two associates, one of their girlfriends and her daughters, ages 10 and 6
Johnson herded the Duncans into a bedroom while Honken forced Nicholson, who had worn a wire as a cooperating witness, to videotape a statement exonerating him.
The group was then tortured, bound, gagged and shot in the back of the head. Tokars testified that Honken told him in 1998 that Kandi and Amber Duncan saw their mother and Nicholson murdered. They were rats being raised by rats, Honken said.
A tape played at Honken’s trial, recorded by a cooperating inmate witness, reveals Honken enjoyed killing. “It’s like getting high,” he said.
Needless to say;
my bleeding heart liberal mother, thinks it is 'horrible' that Honken will be executed
I'm opposed to the death penalty, but if you're going to have it a massive dose of heroin should be the death drug of government choice. A peaceful feeling of bliss and white light, then swift and forever unconsciousness. What's not to like?
Imagine if the vote in the Supreme Court was the reverse and the five Conservative Justices voted to stay the execution of a White Supremacist. What do you think the headlines of all of the news media would be?
I am agnostic on the death penalty.
However, it seems ridiculous that judges vacate the penalty because the mechanism used to kill convicted murderers makes them momentarily suffer before dying.
My best guess is that a lot of people suffer when they die, regardless of the mechanism.
Execution... abortion... execution "Planned Prisoner (PP)" is a legal, even progressive, remedy. The only concern is that the accused has not been falsely charged of committing elective abortion of a wholly or partially innocent life.
SCIENCE says the fetus feels the pain they are suffering from abortions
Fetal-American to socially distance medical, abortionist (i.e. selective-child), and Mengeles (i.e. clinical cannibal) staff. Baby if the Fetal-American is wanted. But, yeah, the correlation is with development of the nervous system around 1 month. Perhaps earlier as our understanding of consciousness changes. Then there is the physical and psychological trauma for mom and dad. Mom has four choices and Pro-Choice/abortion the wicked solution.
Capital punishment is the anti-PC. Justice, not social justice. #HateLovesAbortion
Execution might be a tad bit unpleasant? Try to imagine how little I care. A choice of methods? I'm sorry, but the victims had no choice, did they? And the time between indictment, conviction, incarceration and execution gives the perp years of life that the victim/victims were denied.
And let's hope that Vanessa Guillen's killers, after conviction in TX, will both face executions. And not twenty years from now.
I had our state's electric chair in my museum section's collection years ago - it's still there. We had the whole set, generator, chair, fume hood, male and female head sponge sets, etc (almost said the whole shooting match!). It was refurbished after the Supreme Court allowed for the re-imposition of the death penalty. Never used, and sent to the museum when lethal injection became the de jure method. We could never figure out how to actually exhibit it though. Our curator / exhibit team meetings could never really advance a theme, and couldn't even agree to wall colors. Even label fonts was argued over. A difficult subject for sure. I ventured to our director that putting it in the main hallway, and charging $5 for a photo (like at the amusement parks) would certainly generate serious cash. She wasn't amused.
The Drill SGT said...
Can dull knives be used?
Yes, even if it takes you two weeks to kill the sonofabitch. It should be nobody's business.
How many people believe it will be cruel and unusual once the Leftist Collectivists have absolute power and can sentence political opponents to hard labor in Siberia?
Whoops. I mean North Dakota.
Name a country where Leftist Collectivists did not use mass murder as a weapon against political enemies, eventually.
I know people who survived the umap work camps, so it wouldn't surprise me at all, that was the twist in drury's come nineveh come tyre, when the soviets took over,
Nitrogen is by far the best approach; enough accidents have occurred in industrial settings to prove it. You just lose consciousness and don't wake up, without struggle or feeling poisoned or choking.
It's a bit shocking it hasn't been implemented by some state yet.
A difficult subject for sure. I ventured to our director that putting it in the main hallway, and charging $5 for a photo (like at the amusement parks) would certainly generate serious cash. She wasn't amused.
Sounds like a great idea to me. At the Yuma Territorial Prison you can get your photograph taken behind bars.
[T]he solution may be for this Court to directly examine the question whether the death penalty violates the Constitution.
I’m sure Professor (Emerita) Althouse can explain why stare decisis applies to Roe v. Wade but not Gregg v. Georgia?
Leftist Collectivists have absolute power and can sentence political opponents to hard labor
Religion (i.e. moral philosophy) to keep the honest people honest and competing interests to mitigate the progress of others running amuck.
Yes, even if it takes you two weeks to kill the sonofabitch. It should be nobody's business.
Ah, yes, privacy. What happens in the clinic, stays in the clinic. Besides, there are a variety of socially just methods to abort a human life, to cannibalize her profitable remains, to allow her viability to drain on a cold, metal slab.
Perhaps these judges should rule all deaths starting with their own should painless and instant. I fail to see the logic where the government that conducts a judicial execution has to guarantee a painless death but the very same government can't guarantee that to every serviceman or woman in combat. Obviously there have been abuses by prosecutors and cops. Therefore in my opinion forensic analysis should be separate from the police and the prosecution and in capital crimes prosecution the defendant should be afforded that notch lawyers. That would be cheaper in the long run and provide faster justice either in acquittals or in the case of convictions much shorter appellate procedures. Finally before the signing of the death warrant one last factual review should be done. Will this result in delays? Yes. But the delays will be far shorter than twenty years like in the instance in this thread and confidence in the punishment was just will be increased.
RobinGoodfellow said... [hush][hide comment]
“Blogger tds said...
Sentenced should be obliged to choose execution method from a given palette of options. Justice activists including federal and Supreme Court judges are free to add execution methods they view as acceptable to the palette. If the sentenced refuses to choose, execution method should be selected at random.”
I like it.
7/14/20, 10:58 AM
Aw dude! You should have picked one! Now you are stuck with "run over by herd of wild elephants"!
Now you are stuck with "run over by herd of wild elephants"!
The Sta Puft Marshmallow Man
Utah used to use firing squads..
You should have picked one! Now you are stuck with "run over by herd of wild elephants"!
Could of been worse. “Stung to death by murder hornets” was on the list.
I don’t care about the death penalty. But I’m really tired of these idiotic arguments about its nature.
Get a rope, get an ax, get a gun. I thought we solved the problem of figuring out how to quickly kill a person a long long time ago.
I think the death penalty should not only be for what is currently known as "capital crimes" but should be assigned randomly to any violent crime. Assault causing severe bodily harm? 10 white marbles in a jar, one black one. The convicted reaches in and pulls out a marble. Black one comes out- 30 days later he or she hangs. If the convicted refuses to reach in- double the number of black balls- the district attorney reaches in. Or use the ping-pong ball machines like the lotto. For mere assault- 100 white balls and a black one. Decide on the degree of harm done to society, and randomly execute people for the crime. Most criminals weigh the risk of punishment before committing a crime. If they think they can get away with it, they commit it. Jail is a cost of doing business for them.
You should have picked one! Now you are stuck with "run over by herd of wild elephants"!
Punch line to an old joke. (I'm in my 60's all jokes are old)
Explorers in the Amazon jungle are taken prisoner. The next day the three men are lined up and the chief gives the first guy a choice. Get put to death or choose kwana banga. Not knowing what the word meant, he opted for kwana banga. Three huge tribes men put upon him and satisfied themselves sexually. When they were done, the chief gives the 2cnd man the same choice, he turns down death. Three different men gome forward and more of the same. The third man knew sweet death would be much better. The chief screams out. "DEATH! By kwana banga!
[T]he solution may be for this Court to directly examine the question whether the death penalty violates the Constitution.
Since the Federal government executed criminals before, during and after the writing of the Constitution, a federal government run by the people who wrote the Constitution, how could the death penalty violate the Constitution? Are we supposed to believe that no one noticed for 230 years?
Some poor counties in South Carolina do not impose the death penalty because they can not afford the legal costs associated with the death penalty appeals process, as it is applied in that state.
The End. That the trip we're all gonna take. If we're lucky we'll have had a good day with our families and then go to sleep and forget to wake up. But most of us will go drugged and confused. The condemned have proven themselves not worthy of sharing our oxygen. What ever method we use to dispatch them is far better than their victims ever got. That way we know that they will never ever do murder again.
I understand that when you're condemned to die in Japan you're never told the date of your execution. One day they take you out of your cell and into the death chamber.
Now THATS cruel.
Utah used to use firing squads.
Now there’s an idea. Help hunters zero their rifles in advance of hunting season.
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