July 1, 2020

"Sen. Rand Paul doesn’t much care what Anthony Fauci has to say. The Kentucky Republican gets his public health advice from Friedrich Hayek."

"Hayek, the Austrian-born economist and libertarian hero, died in 1992. But Paul, an ophthalmologist before he took up politics, still takes medical guidance from the 20th-century philosopher. 'Hayek had it right!' Paul proclaimed at Tuesday’s Senate health committee hearing on the coronavirus pandemic. 'Only decentralized power and decision-making based on millions of individualized situations can arrive at what risks and behaviors each individual should choose.' Paul focused his wrath on Fauci, the U.S. government’s top infectious-disease official. 'Virtually every day we seem to hear from you things we can’t do,' Paul complained. 'All I hear is, we can’t do this, we can’t do that, we can’t play baseball.' Fauci assured Paul that 'I never said we can’t play a certain sport.' Unsatisfied, Paul demanded: 'We just need more optimism.'"

From "Could America’s pandemic response be any more medieval?" by Dana Milbank (WaPo).

Medieval?! If you're like me, you're thinking, what is medieval about looking at the big picture that includes maintaining psychological well-being and willingness to keep going through hard times and to invest in the future?

Milbank says "it feels" — feels!! — "as though 21st-century America is 14th-century Europe, reacting with all manner of useless countermeasures to the plague: balancing ill 'humors' and dispelling evil 'vapors' caused by planetary misalignment, religious marches and public self-flagellation, cures involving live chickens and unicorns, and the wearing of amulets and reciting of 'abracadabra.'"

It's Milbank who is having an emotional reaction. He's telling us how "it feels" — reacting to Rand Paul's rational consideration of the psychological element of enduring the pandemic and maintaining our sanity and character. Milbank is simply freaking out and wildly insulting Paul.

Milbank proceeds to rant about anti-virus measures — requiring masks, etc. — but avoids Paul's main point, which is that top-down, centralized regulation isn't the answer: "Only decentralized power and decision-making based on millions of individualized situations can arrive at what risks and behaviors each individual should choose."

115 comments:

wendybar said...

Milban is an asshole.

wendybar said...

Milbank...not Milban

rehajm said...

Only decentralized power and decision-making based on millions of individualized situations can arrive at what risks and behaviors each individual should choose.

He's right, you know. Bureaucrats are paid to dream up new 'needs' to make things 'better' but work in silos and don't consider the consequences for the people they claim to be helping. They're also of limited skill sets and don't know how to stay in their lane. 'I know what I don't know' is seldom heard.

Dave Begley said...

There are only 112 people in NE hospitalized for covid19. But all we hear about is total cases.

The Fake News has hyped this into a panic and crisis.

rehajm said...

Anyone got a link to a real scientific paper concluding masks provide overall benefit? There's a strong hypothesis that they're midieval

iowan2 said...

All the media reports I catch by accident, never talk about the big spike in the death rate. I have not attempted seek out the information. I conclude it hasn't followed case numbers.
I have not seen any reporting about "flattening the curve" I have not heard any experts tell me that resuming lock downs will not save any lives, only flatten the curve. I have not heard any talk about protecting the vulnerable.

The Govt agencies are playing with their now power. Power to control people with predictions. Predictions they have always gotten wrong. These agencies are like a twelve year old that discovered masturbation. Yes it feels good, but give yourself a break already!

rehajm said...

Going through life taking advice from Hayek is a pretty damn good way to go...

The Crack Emcee said...

Feelings.

Nothing more than feelings,...

rhhardin said...

They're two different systems (top-down and distributed control). The feelings are about which systems work and fail in this circumstance. Externalities talk favors top-down, and incentive talk favors distributed.

Kai Akker said...

Hayek in our political debate; icited n the very hall of Congress. How encouraging!

rehajm said...

Compare and contrast the benefits of wearing a mask made of fabric with the benefits of bloodletting.

If I had said masks vs leeches it would have been no contest...

Lawrence Person said...

Mlibank has always been a Democratic Party toady. Of course he has a negative emotion response to people who want to choose freedom.

John henry said...

I stand with Rand.

Doctor Rand Paul, that is.

Fauci is just too sleazy when it comes to vaccine development. He's gotten rich off of vaccine patents that he developed while on the govt payroll, in a govt lab.

And who has a big hand in approval of these vaccines?

Why ms Christine Grady at NIH.

Also known since 1985 as Mrs Fauci.

John Henry

michaele said...

It seems like anything I read in publications like the Washington Post have to work in an angle to slam Trump. Example today was an article about Carl Reiner and his commitment to keeping laughter and a lively mind in his life. So, of course, that gave the author the perfect opportunity to quote one of Reiner's last tweets, “As I arose at 7:30 this morning, I was saddened to relive the day that led up to the election of a bankrupted and corrupt businessman who had no qualifications to be the leader of any country in the civilized world . . .” It's just amazing to me how every event is a chance for Dems to demonize Trump.

Jeff Brokaw said...

With public stands like this, Sen. Rand Paul has become one of my favorite DC swamp dwellers.

Milbank of course is still a moron with a column. One of the least interesting people in the world.

Fauci needs to STFU, his guidance is useless: “this could happen, or that could happen” blah blah blah. He’s Eyeore.

MikeR said...

Twentieth century. Medieval.
I had heard that some of the protesters are Marxists. Hayek is way more modern, and way deeper.

Phil 314 said...

Who are the Medici and who is the Church in this analogy?

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Fauci admitted the initial mask policy was a lie meant to keep PPE available for first responders.
Fauci stressed the importance of hospitalization rates and deaths-per-day until Democrat Media enforcement of the New Focus on positive tests.
A real public health focus would be REASSURING the public not to panic.
Fauci invites panic and despair even though the lethality of WuFlu is on par with a bad flu year, no more.
Don’t trust Fauci.
Fauci is asshole.

Howard said...

The anti-mask mask has slipped

JPS said...

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."

Fortunately public health is in no way like economics, so Milbank is safe avoiding Paul's main point, and snarking about taking public health advice from the guy who wrote that.

Mike Sylwester said...

Democracy Dies in Darkness!

wendybar said...

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
Fauci admitted the initial mask policy was a lie meant to keep PPE available for first responders.
Fauci stressed the importance of hospitalization rates and deaths-per-day until Democrat Media enforcement of the New Focus on positive tests.
A real public health focus would be REASSURING the public not to panic.
Fauci invites panic and despair even though the lethality of WuFlu is on par with a bad flu year, no more.
Don’t trust Fauci.
Fauci is asshole.
7/1/20, 7:11 AM

Just like Milbank!!!

MayBee said...

We need a little more Rand Paul in this country.

Rand Paul is right about schools. All these black lives that matter are going to hurt a lot with a year off from school.
Has anyone noticed the cities' murder rates? Imagine a whole 'nother school year of shut down.

Jamie said...

SO TIRED of hearing about how things "feel" to the side that bases its policies and decisions on how things feel. We know you "feel" this way and that. You're chanting rhymes in the dark in front of a mirror, trying to get the right monster to appear. You're buying ill-wishes from the witch to throw in the windows of the people who hurt your feelings. You're in the tent with the fortune-teller, begging to know if the man she sees in the crystal ball has white hair or candyfloss blond. We get it. You're all helpless against the inexorable, insensate evils of a world that doesn't care how you feel.

I've been saying forever that the Left is evoking more and more cargo-cult references these days - "if we do science, really scientifically, the problem will disappear, because science is actually magic." "If we act as if violent thugs are innocent children, they will stop being violent, because when we would act out as children, all we really wanted was attention." "Money is just paper, so we can use as much as we want." "If we give people more money, they will feel fulfilled and happy, because people richer than we are always seem to be fulfilled and happy."

MayBee said...

I"m sorry, but the "we didn't want people to use masks until we had enough PPE for hospitals" makes no sense.
They are different masks. Your doctor isn't going to show up for surgery wearing a little cloth elastic earloop mask. Your nurse isn't going to take care of you with a bandana pulled over her face.

The masks the public is wearing aren't the same ones the doctors are wearing. The masks have become a magic totem-- you see it with the protests. As long as people have these cloth things somewhere by their face we are "safe" and if you don't have them you are "dangerous". The masks people wear fog up their glasses (meaning air is getting out!) fall down from their nose (which is how the virus gets in) and get touched all day long. We are supposed to believe that crowding by the tens of thousands for hours in the public square is a safe activity because of the magic masks. But going to school can't be safe.

I wear my masks because its the only way we are going to get past this, legally with our governor if not health-wise. But they don't work like the magic cloth we are being pressed to see them as. It's just one more weird thing.

But they are lying about the PPE for doctors things. That's gotta be a lie.

Laslo Spatula said...

I lost a close family member on Friday due to complications from COVID.

Well, not that she had COVID: she had cancer.

A cancer that went aggressive while appointments were replaced by phone-calls and treatments postponed and juggled for months to keep the hospitals ever-ready for the 'real' victims. Who never seemed to show up in the numbers we were told.

But I'm a 'COVIDiot'.

I am positively aching to be told that to my face, and not online by some Covid Queen.

I am Laslo.

Kevin said...

Could America’s pandemic response be any more medieval?

I remember when Obama was President.

When things went wrong it was the American people’s fault.

We were always letting him down.

Crazy Jane said...

I am tired of the way news organizations make every freaking issue about politics. They have encouraged people to react the way their "tribes" do, which is insane.

Like Fauci or hate him, you will be mostly safe if you do the three things he said months ago: Observe social distance. Wear masks when inside buildings not your home. Wash your hands.

The idea that an all-wise government should be trusted to manage something like this is plain folly. I spend time in three states, and they all are badly managed and particularly in this instance. In CA, the county health director's orders (described as such) so overbroad that people have ignored many of them. In NJ, the governor followed Cuomo's lead and sent infected seniors to nursing homes. In Nashville last weekend, young people were congregating in groups and drinking beer on party buses, sorta like the spring breakers who got sick in FL and Mexico.

narciso said...

Barber fauci, is still trying to bleed the patient, I would say it's a more eskimo policy, the way it has sacrificed old people,

mezzrow said...

"Only decentralized power and decision-making based on millions of individualized situations can arrive at what risks and behaviors each individual should choose."

This is an existential threat to the entire DC class and DC economy. In the immoral words of Governor Lepetomane, "We've got to protect our phony-baloney jobs!"

Marcus said...

Our Hostess seems to be done trolling and is now back in The Real World.

THEOLDMAN

TWWren said...

Remember to fill your pockets full of posey's.

rehajm said...

sorta like the spring breakers who got sick in FL and Mexico.

Ah- did they 'get sick' or did nearly all of them test positive with mild or no symptoms?

Calypso Facto said...

Sorry to hear that, Laslo; my condolences. No one seems to want to talk about the the increased murder, abuse, OD, and suicide rates and other negative effects like decreased access to medical care your family has experienced.

iowan2 said..."All the media reports I catch by accident, never talk about the big spike in the death rate." That's because the number of deaths and the death rate are falling, even as the number of cases increases. As predicted by the sane, COVID's effects on the young, healthy population appear to be minimal (with some terrible, anecdotal, statistically insignificant outliers, of course).

Milbank thinks Federalism is medieval ... but totalitarianism is so modern and cool!

MayBee said...

I'm sorry, Laslo. My heart goes out to you.

MayBee said...

Remember, Rand Paul had COVID. He's also missing part of a lung. And all the senators were mad at him because he went to the gym before he knew he had it. And none of them got it.

So Rand Paul knows a little bit about COVID.

Oso Negro said...

@ Laslo - I am sorry for your loss, friend.

Fernandinande said...

"Only decentralized power and decision-making based on millions of individualized situations can arrive at what risks and behaviors each individual should choose."

Good answer. The socialists tried to sell that "we're all in this together" nonsense, but that idea is even less appropriate than it is under normal circumstances.

Temujin said...

The beauty of Hayek is that he precisely points out how we have to approach ALL problems and issues that come in life. These things can never be properly worked out from a narrow central authority when there are so, so many variables from region to region, state to state, city to city, person to person.

To think that this applies only to economics is blindingly dumb. But, Dana Milbank has a history of being blindingly dumb. I don't like to just use ad hominem attacks. It's not a good arguing point. But Milbank truly is like a block of concrete and has been for years. Years.

Sen. Paul properly laid out data for Dr. Fauci. And Dr. Fauci did not disagree with Sen. Paul. The people who disagreed with Sen. Paul were ready to disagree with him before he took his first breath. They are also the people who constantly claim that they march behind the banner of Science! And Data! Until you show them science and data that conflicts with their narrative.

Michael K said...

If I had said masks vs leeches it would have been no contest...

Napoleon treated his hemorrhoids with leeches. Now there is an image. Just finished Roberts' biography. I've read a lot of biography but nothing by Brinkley. My impression is that he was a court jester for Clinton.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Paul's main point, which is that top-down, centralized regulation isn't the answer: "Only decentralized power and decision-making based on millions of individualized situations can arrive at what risks and behaviors each individual should choose."

Well top down regulation is the answer IF The question is "How do we oppress and have absolute control over all these people?".

Each area of the Country, each COUNTY each City is a different situation. They need individualized decisions based on their unique compositions.

What is necessary in NYC or SF or LA is not needed in Broke Donkey Nevada or Big Timber Oregon. To insist that everyone be treated the same. That everyone be subject to the same onerous dictatorial edicts from on high....is not only ridiculous...it is going to start the beginning of a true revolt.

The people know what is sane. What is fair. They will eventually just ignore the "rulers" or better yet....remove them from being the PITA that they are now.

It can be done by voting...OR...by other means.

IF we have rampant voter fraud in November...and we will...then the choice will be made.

Michael said...

Were it Medieval we would have quarantined the sick and the old and let the rest proceed with their lives.

stlcdr said...

Rand Paul is right.

We don't live in a homogeneous society, which, ironically people on the left *don't* want! Or is there such a thing as a 'homogeneously diverse population'?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Dave Begley said... There are only 112 people in NE hospitalized for covid19. But all we hear about is total cases.

The Fake News has hyped this into a panic and crisis.


The rise in cases is due to more testing, not people being treated or hospitalized. More testing = more cases.

If we made everyone take IQ tests...... we would see an alarming rise in idiocy.

😁

Wa St Blogger said...

I lost a close family member on Friday due to complications from COVID.

I am sorry to hear about that, Laslo. My Step Father passed away 2 days ago, left alone his last 3 months "due to Covid". I have 2 kids whose treatment at Seattle Children's was interrupted due to Covid. I am not in the mood for people who talk about saving granny while at the same time ignoring all the impacts of the shutdown.

As Thomas Sowell likes to point out: “There are no solutions. There are only trade-offs.”

If you cannot talk about the trade-offs, then you are an un-serious reactionary that should be ignored.

Big Mike said...

@Laslo, my sympathy.

Chris N said...

We should centralize news gathering and put all the journalists in one place, telling everyone how to feel, think, and do.

The current model is at the cutting edge.

DDiD baby.

buwaya said...

The world response (not the effect; that has varied greatly due to reasons still unknown) to Covid has been very little different overall to that of the US.

Nearly every country has locked down and put on masks, etc. to some degree or other, and nearly all are now coming out of lockdown, some faster some slower. And there is no pattern in outcomes or "best practice" that has been learned.

You are arguing over nothing. It is absurd.

John Borell said...

Nothing makes me happier than seeing Friedrich Hayek brought up in a political debate!

Now go watch Keynes vs. Hayek Fear the Boom and Bust video:

https://youtu.be/GTQnarzmTOc

Freder Frederson said...

Public Health is one area where libertarianism really demonstrates what a ridiculous and hollow philosophy it is. Allowing individuals to decide whether or not they want to get vaccinated or follow quarantine orders is a recipe for disaster, as is being demonstrated right now. Most other advanced countries have managed to reduce their Covid infection rate significantly, while ours continues to rise, and in states that a couple weeks ago you all were claiming were immune, because that is where "Real Americans" live, or something.

Gusty Winds said...

At this point, it is clear Fauci is a false Prophet.

Temujin said...

I was actually listening to this inquiry in my car on SiriusXM, on...dare I say, CNN. It was the only network broadcasting it at the time I was listening. So I'm listening to Repubs then Dems make their points. Dems point was that it's about Trump and Trump should be beheaded. Then came Elizabeth Warren who used her allotted time, and then when her time was up, she demanded more time to speechify. The Republican committee leader did what all Republicans do: He admonished her, then let her have her way. (I've gotten to viewing Republicans as bad parents, and Democrats as bad, bratty kids. Not a mix for good results.)

Anyway- Elizabeth got more than her share of time. And then up was Sen. Tim Scott of South Carolina, who just a few days ago, CNN ignored and treated as a non-existent human when talking about how the Dems rejected the Police Reform Bill in Congress, which Sen. Scott co-authored. It was as if CNN and the Dems, led by Sen. Schumer treated this black man as a non-entity. A non-human.

So here comes Sen. Tim Scott to have his say. I was extremely interested in what he would say after Sen. Warren. Then CNN cuts him off. Literally as his name was called, CNN cut away to their in-studio talking heads to discuss how evil Trump is.

Is it just me, or is CNN just obviously racist? Do they treat all black men like they do Tim Scott? I'm assuming that Don Lemon has a thing going with someone there, because based on how I see them treat Sen. Scott, I'd say they have an issue with black men.

Tommy Duncan said...

While we are being told the increased COVID case count is on the rise, Wisconsin's deaths and hospitalizations are trending down. How is that a bad thing? Fewer people are meaningfully sick while more people are gaining immunity.

NCMoss said...

Sorry for your loss, Laslo.

Thistlerose said...

Making people wear masks all day is just plain stupid. I touch my face much more with a mask on because its uncomfortable. About a third of the people I see either have their mask off their nose or wear one with a vent which makes them useless for stopping the virus. As soon as a person goes on break or lunch they take the mask off and then put it on the table until they go back to work spreading any germs more than if they did not wear one. Forcing people to wear masks is just a way for the government to show that they are doing something to stop the spread when in reality there is nothing they can really do. This like any other communicable disease needs to run its course.

If you're afraid to do anything then don't but stop trying to control my life.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, do you realize how many IQ points you lose every time you read a column in the Washington Post.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Dr. Fauchi, Dr. Fauci,
Dr. Fauci!

Dr. Fauchi, Dr. Fauci,
Dr. Fauci!

Dr. Fauchi, Dr. Fauci,
Oh, Oh, Oh! Dr. Fauci!

Come and rock me, Dr Fauchi!


Apologies to Falco...

Francisco D said...

I feel a need to defend Fauci because I do not think he is a bad guy.

He is an "expert", but one with an extremely limited understanding of this unique virus and global situation.

The problem is that the Media Democrats are making him the Oracle of Delphi because the do not understand science and they desperately want to defeat Trump.

JB71-AZ said...

In our state, we're getting about 2000-2500 new cases a day.

Deaths are down to an average of about 12 a day. Hospitalizations are staying kinda steady.

Dust Bunny Queen's got it right - we're testing a lot more, so we're seeing a lot more.

The hospitalization and death numbers are what counts, but the 'confirmed cases' number is MUCH more useful to spread fear.

walter said...

Shit Laslo,
So sorry to hear.
Perhaps at some point you can honor them by sharing your/their story in a full essay, shared widely.
This issue risks being lost in the noise.
One of those amorphous "potential secondary side-effects" of lockdown, as Fauci called them.

Big Mike said...

About the only thing Governor Northam got right was his realization that maintaining strict lockdown rules across the entire state because of high case volumes in the densely populated suburbs around Washington, DC was a loser for him. He stopped kneeling on the neck of the rural counties.

Big Mike said...

Fauci helped turn a nasty epidemic into a healthcare and economic disaster. Why isn’t he on trial for his life?

hombre said...

Ps. 31:18 “Let their lying lips be silenced,
for with pride and contempt
they speak arrogantly against the righteous.”

A little Bible-based wishful thinking about the leftmediaswine.

“Paul focused his wrath on Fauci.” Paul’s wrath? Really? Paul is not, was not, wrathful. It’s projection, as always. All lefties should wear masks because they spittle-fleck the world whenever they speak about anyone who disagrees with their lunacy.

I am less troubled by pinheads like Milbank who believe in their right to pick our leaders than I am by the intellectual idiots of my acquaintance who actually take them seriously. You know, the people with whom you used to converse about a myriad of topics who now can’t discuss anything without getting pissed off because it’s all politics. For example, normal people used to agree that mobs pulling down statues in public places was a bad idea, but not now.

Krumhorn said...

Laslo’s loss is particularly painful as resulting from the secondary impacts of the WuFlu hysteria. The lefties weren’t so concerned about Wu Cooties when their political shock troops were out en mass breaking things and hurting people. I can’t help the suspicion that so much of the 2020 horrors are tightly geared to the 2020 election.

In which case, Laslo’s family can blame the lefties.....as I do. Nasty little shits! (the lefties; not Laslo’s family)

- Krumhorn

hstad said...

Interesting "Milbank" uses 14th Century Europe as an example? "Milbank" what about 21st Century Sweden who made a complete different decision on Covit and a Socialist Country too?

Gahrie said...

Althouse arguing against feelings?

rcocean said...

THe WaPO and NYT are so totally worthless. Its not simply the bias, its that EVERY opinion column and news article has one underlying theme and reason for being: DEFEAT TRUMP.

Throw in the fact, that most of their writers are boobs and idiots (Like Milbank) and its tiresome reading and responding to them. Its like being stuck with an extremely obnoxious, stupid, co-worker that you have to continually correct and rebut. "No it doesn't work that way" "No, you're wrong", day after day.

As for CV-19 Dr. Paul is correct. Hospitalizations and Deaths from CV-19 have plummeted. For example, Texas had 8,000 new cases yesterday, but only 59 deaths. Healthy people under 60, just aren't dying from CV-19. Its killing those over 70, and those with extreme obesity or other health issues. We've flattened the curve, and we need to start trying to achieve "herd immunity".

ALP said...

In Medieval times they would contain the sick in their homes by nailing the front door shut.

Jeff Brokaw said...

My condolences Laslo. SO unnecessary.

Roy Jacobsen said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...
The Fake News has hyped this into a panic and crisis.

True.

The rise in cases is due to more testing, not people being treated or hospitalized. More testing = more cases.

Not bashing you, but offering a clarification: The rise in the reported number of cases is due to more testing. The true number of cases isn't influenced by testing; it is revealed by testing. But I'm sure you knew that.

Similarly: If we made everyone take IQ tests...... it would reveal an alarming amount of idiocy.

walter said...

Not giving a dime to WAPOO, I can't fully access that POS.
But it's, you know, interesting that Milbank is suggesting the US approach is backwards when in the the full exchange Paul had supporting charts of the results in other developed countries' approach/data to schools etc. He also suggests Fauci has a way of popping up all over the place chiming in on things outside his purview, to which Fauci later responds "I am completely unqualified to tell you whether you can play a sport or not"(laughs).
In the context of too much power in one "expert" I wish Paul had mentioned the various Epidemiologists at Stanford and elsewhere questioning various "mediation, mediation, mediation" approaches in a cost/benefit sense.

Birkel said...

Freder Frederson thinks quarantine means locking healthy people inside their homes, or some bull shit.

Idiot who wants to cede control for his own life says what?

I Callahan said...

you will be mostly safe if you do the three things he said months ago: Observe social distance. Wear masks when inside buildings not your home. Wash your hands.

Here he is hinting that we should have a nationwide lockdown:

Fauci said the daily increase in new cases could reach 100,000 unless a nationwide push was made to tamp down the resurgent virus. “We can’t just focus on those areas that are having the surge. It puts the entire country at risk,” he said.

Nope, don't trust this guy as far as I can throw him now. 100,000? What part of his posterior is he pulling that number from?

I Callahan said...

You are arguing over nothing. It is absurd.

Not true. Any of these countries (or states) can reverse course and re-assert the lockdowns. That's what Fauci is actively pushing for. Read the link in my prior comment.

I Callahan said...

He is an "expert", but one with an extremely limited understanding of this unique virus and global situation.

Not to belabor the point, but Fauci's situation in this is his own fault. If he weren't out preaching doom and gloom, the media wouldn't parrot it.

Tommy Duncan said...

Blogger ALP said...

"In Medieval times they would contain the sick in their homes by nailing the front door shut."

In China they weld the apartment building doors shut to contain the sick.

RNB said...

Rand Paul at least has the advantage of being an actual Medical Doctor while Dana Wilbank is just some a-hole with a byline.

Temujin said...

Also sending condolences at the painful and unnecessary loss of a family member, Laslo. Peace to you and yours.

Drago said...

The Lefties LOVE the middle ages. That's why they've happily partnered up with the islamic supremacists.

Drago said...

Field Marshall Freder: "Public Health is one area where libertarianism really demonstrates what a ridiculous and hollow philosophy it is."

Field Marshall Freder labels Sweden a libertarian nation.

Interesting.

But he won't understand why......

Yancey Ward said...

I wrote a comment over 3 months ago now on this and other sites- test everyone resident in and working in the hospitals and nursing homes- test them relentlessly. House COVID-19 patients in entirely separate hospitals. Suggest strongly that those over age 65, or with severe co-morbitities, wear masks and self-isolate themselves as much as possible (like Althouse and Meade did due to age). And, otherwise, let everyone else carry on with their lives as they see fit.

We never needed to shut down the economy by fiat- all those businesses and schools could have remained opened- all you needed to do was to make provision for those in the groups that needed to self-isolate due to age and health reasons. Sweden was always the right model- their only failure was the exact same failure every other European country and the states in the midwest and the northeast US made- they didn't protect the people in hospitals and nursing homes, but all these countries appear to have learned that lesson- it is why the death rates have fallen everywhere, including those places where new cases were steady all along, or even rising significantly.

Go look at Sweden's data at world-o-meters if you don't believe me- their cases have slowly risen all this time, but the deaths/day have been declining since their peak in the second week of April. Tennessee, my state, is also an example here- 2/3s of the initial deaths were in nursing homes, but such deaths racheted down greatly by the second week of May, which has dropped the overall case fatality rate to under 1.4%. This is, in fact, the general trend in every state in the US- high death rates at the start, but then they decline as people started to take nursing home protection seriously. It is just a harsh learning curve that, apparently, requires actual experience to take seriously. We could have learned from Italy, but we didn't, and it killed tens of thousands of people in the northeast and midwest.

Yancey Ward said...

I see the Seattle mayor has moved to close down CHAZ/CHOP. All it took was a threat from the "protesters" to add the mayor's mansion to their territory.

It is proving Trump's strategy the correct one- let the Democrats lie in their own shit long enough, they will eventually tire of it and start doing their jobs.

Anthony said...

This doesn't have many references, but pretty much my opinion on masks. I've been reading as many papers as I can on it and conclude it's at best equivocal: They might have some benefit in some contexts. And that only applies to normal surgical masks, not the silly homemade things people are wearing.

None I have found deal with potential negative effects either, from more (for e.g.) face touching or the fact that you have a warm, moist Petri dish on your face for possibly hours at a time.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Sorry to hear Laslo.

Sebastian said...

"but avoids Paul's main point, which is that top-down, centralized regulation isn't the answer"

Can any prog journalist even engage the main point? Have any of them even read Hayek? (If my experience with progs is any guide: no. Who dat, Hayek?)

If we were all arguing in good faith, taking Hayek seriously, etc. etc., I might even quibble with Paul that decentralization is always best. And Hayek himself allowed for a bit more centralization than today's libertarians like. The logic of his arguments about the use of knowledge and the benefits of a system of voluntary exchange does not necessarily entail a decentralized approach to a society-wide pandemic.

Michael K said...

The hospitalization and death numbers are what counts, but the 'confirmed cases' number is MUCH more useful to spread fear.

The "confirmed cases" numbers are being manipulated. I wonder if we will ever get an honest account? The guy with the gunshot wound in WA who is listed as a Covid death, for example.

Michael K said...

while ours continues to rise, and in states that a couple weeks ago you all were claiming were immune, because that is where "Real Americans" live, or something.

Epidemiologist Freder talking about something he knows nothing about. Where have we seen this before?

Testing is now finding the asymptomatic cases and the death and ICU rates are flat or declining.

By the way, where is your list of surgery centers that don't require surgeons to have staff privileges?

stlcdr said...

Experts don't dictate policies; they are advisors to those who make the decisions.

Earnest Prole said...

It’s not like we’re the only country on earth dealing with this virus. Rand Paul is offering his views on how best to respond. What do the numbers in other countries tell us?

Krumhorn said...

Public Health is one area where libertarianism really demonstrates what a ridiculous and hollow philosophy it is. Allowing individuals to decide whether or not they want to get vaccinated or follow quarantine orders is a recipe for disaster, as is being demonstrated right now. Most other advanced countries have managed to reduce their Covid infection rate significantly, while ours continues to rise, and in states that a couple weeks ago you all were claiming were immune, because that is where "Real Americans" live, or something.

Fredo should consider that if IQ tests were suddenly administered along with WuFlu tests, there would also be an alarming increase in the number of idiots among us. And wouldn’t it be fun to correlate the increase in WuCooties with the rioting by all the Fredos out there?

- Krumhorn

Yancey Ward said...

"It’s not like we’re the only country on earth dealing with this virus. Rand Paul is offering his views on how best to respond. What do the numbers in other countries tell us?"

The world is broken down into two groups:

(1) Was able to shut the borders and test/contact well enough to stop the virus at less than 10,000 cases......for now.

(2) Wasn't able to do (1), and so had the virus run pretty unchecked since March. Pretty much all this group had high death rates at the start, but learned to deal with the mortality rates as time went on.

The first group consists of island nations or pseudo-island nations like South Korea. The group is pretty much the rest of the world and 75% of the world. The one exception is China, where the virus originated, but they used methods that are not possible in a western style democracy.

All those in group (1), though, will be vulnerable without a vaccine that works. I suspect the entire world ends up in group (2) eventually, unless an effective vaccine is developed and deployed.

walter said...

Earnest Prole
Did you watch the longer clip of Paul (I posted above)?

Even within the US:
"Georgia has reached a 3-month low in its number of recorded COVID deaths, roughly 2 months after [they] began to lift its lockdown restrictions amid sharp criticism that a too-hasty reopening would result in widespread fatalities."
Georgia COVID-19 deaths hit 3-month low, as reopening belies predicted health catastrophe

Tommy Duncan said...

Blogger Yancey Ward said...

"I see the Seattle mayor has moved to close down CHAZ/CHOP. All it took was a threat from the "protesters" to add the mayor's mansion to their territory."

The shooting (with one killed) of two black teens in CHAZ may have hastened the shutdown. (I'll skip the snide remark about which lives matter.)

Dust Bunny Queen said...

@ Roy Jacobson

I said: "The rise in cases is due to more testing, not people being treated or hospitalized. More testing = more cases."

Yes. I believe that is what I said. The larger the sample size, the more instances you might be likely to see. What we don't hear is the percentage of cases to sample size. 10 cases out of 100? or 10 cases out of 10,000? Makes a difference.

Math is haaaard....for liberals and journalists.

Not bashing you, but offering a clarification: The rise in the reported number of cases is due to more testing. The true number of cases isn't influenced by testing; it is revealed by testing. But I'm sure you knew that.

Similarly: If we made everyone take IQ tests...... it would reveal an alarming amount of idiocy.


Basically ...:-)

Per George Carlin "“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”

Yup. Make everyone take an IQ test and see what happens to the statistics.

Jim at said...

Could America’s pandemic response be any more medieval?

Put Milbank on the rack and let's find out.

MadisonMan said...

The beauty of relying on dead people is that their views don't change. That's in contrast to Fauci's.

MadisonMan said...

Laslo -- what a horrible series of events to go through for you. I'm sorry.

Jim at said...

Allowing individuals to decide ... is a bad thing according to the totalitarian thug, Freder.

You can fuck right off, boy.

John henry said...

Sorry for your loss Lazlo.

Doubly sorry because it may have been unnecessary it treated.

John Henry

wholelottasplainin' said...

Freder Frederson said...
Public Health is one area where libertarianism really demonstrates what a ridiculous and hollow philosophy it is. Allowing individuals to decide whether or not they want to get vaccinated or follow quarantine orders is a recipe for disaster, as is being demonstrated right now. Most other advanced countries have managed to reduce their Covid infection rate significantly, while ours continues to rise, and in states that a couple weeks ago you all were claiming were immune, because that is where "Real Americans" live, or something.
**********

Full of shit, as usual. Infection rates rise as testing rates rise.

It's the Case Fatality Rate that counts, and the US remains very low:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

As DBQ says above:

"If we made everyone take IQ tests...... we would see an alarming rise in idiocy."

Have you had your IQ tested lately, Freder?

Bilwick said...

"Public Health is one area where libertarianism really demonstrates what a ridiculous and hollow philosophy it is."

Yeah, people who believe in liberty are just the worst, aren't they? What do such clowns believe, that their lives and property belong to themselves and not the state? To the re-education camps with 'em all, I say.

JaimeRoberto said...

My parents are in their 90s. Today is my mom's 90th birthday. My dad has prostate cancer that is going to kill him. In fact, his doctor didn't think he'd live this long. He needs help getting dressed and going to the bathroom. So I go help every week, along with my brother, my sister and some caretakers. There's always a risk that one of us will bring the virus into the house, but the world is a risky place. Would my father be better off hiding with no visitors in order to eek out a couple extra months? Hell no. In fact, the visitors probably have extended his life and added to the quality of his life.

The mother of a friend of mine is in a nursing home. Her dementia has taken a turn for the worse since the quarantine and she's had to be taken to the hospital for falls a few times. Yet her family can't visit. Is she being well served by the quarantine? Hell no.

bbkingfish said...

"Only decentralized power and decision-making based on millions of individualized situations can arrive at what risks and behaviors each individual should choose."

That sounds more like an expression of an article of faith, as opposed to an expression of a conclusion reached by analysis. That the principle applies to controlling the spread of the virus in the U.S. seems like kind of a stretch to me.

But no politician preens for the cameras more than Rand Paul does, and he knows the cameras are on Dr. Fauci. No one should be surprised that he would say silly things to get on TV.

Earnest Prole said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dust Bunny Queen said...

JaimeRoberto said... My parents are in their 90s. Today is my mom's 90th birthday. My dad has prostate cancer that is going to kill him. In fact, his doctor didn't think he'd live this long.

I feel your pain. My father in his 90's died on April 6. He also had prostate cancer and other ailments along with dementia. He was in hospice care before the LockDown. He did NOT have Covid. We were not allowed to visit him in hospice care. Only his wife was allowed in and for brief moments.

We didn't have a funeral. Only cremation and plan to have a proper send off in the fall when we can all get together. A party and remembrance of his amazing life. He would like that.

He basically died alone with just a few moments.... allowed by the goverment.... with his wife of 30 years. The only blessings we can see is that he didn't linger longer and that our absence probably went unnoticed since his mind was destroyed by dementia.

Nevertheless this ridiculous and politically motivated mindless lock downs are creating death and misery over and above any protection from Covid that could be used as an excuse. I hope there is Karma justice for the people who are purposely causing all this pain, and that they get THEIR just desserts some day.

Rory said...

Pennsylvania has just re-commanded masking in public, including "outdoors and unable to consistently maintain a distance of six feet from individuals who are not members of their households."

Allegheny County (Pittsburgh) has 1.2 million residents and has attributed 187 deaths to the virus. The median age of death has been 84. In recent years, the median age of death from all causes has been 80.

wholelottasplainin' said...

But no politician preens for the cameras more than Rand Paul does, and he knows the cameras are on Dr. Fauci. No one should be surprised that he would say silly things to get on TV.
**************

Do the names Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer strike a familiar note?

Michael K said...

But no politician preens for the cameras more than Rand Paul does, and he knows the cameras are on Dr. Fauci. No one should be surprised that he would say silly things to get on TV.

As usual, you are deluded. Nobody beats Schumer and Pelosi and they have much less to say than Rand Paul. Schiff is another TV star in his own mind.

RigelDog said...

Laslo, my heart goes out to you. Your family member is part of the unseen, obscene cost of the extended draconian lockdown. I'm so sorry.

DavidUW said...

Fauci has been wrong about every single new disease since HIV/AIDS.

4 decades of F ups, but hey, it's a government job, so where's his promotion?

Gospace said...

https://www.airforcemag.com/snapshot-dod-and-covid-19/
A little over 2 million military members. Young, almost 50% of active duty is <25, less than 10% over 40. Healthier than the general population- or they can't be in the military. From the link- 3, count them 3 military deaths. Out of over a 2 million population.

If you're young and healthy you shouldn't be masked, you shouldn't be isolating. You should be out mixing it and if you get covid- SO WHAT! You're not going to die from it if you're young and healthy unless you're that rare being called a statistical anomaly. In fact, over 80% of cases are asymptomatic or mild, and that would be among healthy people. 15% of cases are serious and require oxygen, 5% are critical. And who is that 20%? Mostly sick people, and of that, mostly old sick people.

A number I picked up from a guest column in the Hampshire Daily Gazette by H Patricia Hynes. From her column on 29 June of the 210 residents at the Holyoke Soldiers’ Home, 89 had died by late May, with 74 of those from COVID. What type of people live at Soldiers’ Homes? Sick people. Rarely do you find an otherwise healthy person living in one. So if you’re sick, especially old and sick, your chances of dying from covid are pretty good. If you're one of those, don't go out and party. If you're young- don't visit old sick people UNTIL you've had and recovered from covid. Simple.

Something we know, but don't know why for sure, there are several theories- some people just don't get covid. Like, for example, me. 2 of my sons, who live me, were diagnosed with covid by symptoms. I have never masked up. Well, once, on 20 June, when I gave blood 6 days after turning 65. At the moment Red Cross is checking all donations for covid antibodies. I was negative. My sons are now taking their daily multitamins I told them to take a long time ago, along with 1,000 IU D3 daily. Maybe my T cells kill off the dreaded covid- maybe because I have a healthy Vitamin D blood level, maybe not. I don't know the relationship between T cells and D, but I know D is needed for a healthy immune system... Maybe in one of my trips to Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, or other places more than 20 years ago courtesy of the US Navy- I picked a similar coronavirus that was close enough to the dreaded covid to fight it off. On the Diamond Princess (last number I could find) 712 of 3711 people got covid. About 20%- in an absolutely ideal breeding ground for virus spread. The numbers seem to indicate no matter what- only 26%-30% of any population gets it- then it stops.

I'm not worried about getting it. I'm not young and healthy- but I'm healthy. I do a number of things that minimize my chances of getting (or suffering) from any URI. Nasal irrigation, daily gargling, various and sundry supplements- including D.

Remeber- you're responsible for your health. Not Dr Fauci, nor Senator Paul. I'm not responsible for your health. Home Depot, Wegmans, Walmart, the pizza place, chain restaurants- they're not responsible for your health- you are.

I stop on my way home at night at a local dairy 24 hour quick store, one of the few still open at night and often the employees aren't covering their noses! And I don't care. At the restaurants, still open in western and central NY until Dictator Cuomo gets another wild hair up his ass, it bothers me to see the employees masked- because it interferes with their work. And- causes their faces to sweat... Would you rather have a sweaty faced waitperson deliver your food or an unmasked one?

At this point covidiocy is a non-crisis. Everything should be returned to the old normal as fast as possible, and people should evaluate their own risks. Dictators like Cuomo and Whitmer are reporting numbers of covid cases to increase their dictatorial powers. When simply having covid for most people is, well, nothing much at all.

Gk1 said...

The only reason why I wear my mask in an area of with over 100,000 people that had seen 7 covid deaths is because the poor shop keepers and restaurants trying to stay afloat will get shut down by the state health inspectors if they don't enforce this lunacy. That is the only reason, for them.

They probably hate it more than I do as I can strip mine off the minute I leave the store but they have to sit there like idiots and wear them the entire day because of some power drunk assholes in Sacramento power tripping. And you can bet your fucking ass they aren't wearing them either in the office or in public, just when the cameras are on.

CJ said...

Rand Paul is a medical doctor who practiced medicine for 20 years. Tony Fauci is a 79-year-old bureaucrat who has been at the CDC since the 1970s.

Rusty said...

My sympathies as well Laslo.

Nichevo said...

My heart goes out to you, Mr Spatula.

May her memory be for a blessing.