I remember growing up in Delaware and talking about whipping still being on the books as a form of punishment. Exactly how did we experience that? Hard to remember, but I think it just seemed weird, something odd about our state. It was something that wasn't actually used, but it could be. It was there. You never know!
Delaware abolished the punishment of whipping in 1972, but keeping it on display was apparently considered valuable as a matter of history. But, the director of the Division of Historical and Cultural Affairs, Tim Slavin says it ought "to be preserved in the state's collections, so that future generations may view it and attempt to understand the full context of its historical significance," but....
"It's quite another thing to allow a whipping post to remain in place along a busy public street - a cold, deadpan display that does not adequately account for the traumatic legacy it represents, and that still reverberates among communities of color in our state."Interesting use of the word "deadpan," which I feel as though I've only ever seen as a way to deliver comic lines, and obviously there was no comedy behind the stark presence of the whipping post. But "deadpan" simply refers to the expressionless face, and the missing expression can just as well be disapproval or regret.
But something is lost when the notorious object is removed from its historical place. You can no longer go there and see and touch it and say, right here, this is where Delaware whipped its convicted criminals, and imagine that happening to you, perhaps contemplating whether you might prefer a minute of whipping to a year in prison.
From a 2013 Delaware Today article:
Poisoning someone could bring 60 lashes. Trafficking in stolen mules could mean 20 lashes, as compared to wife beating, which could get as few as five....
The whipping post, an oak column standing in a prison yard, was called “Red Hannah,” and the whipping was done with a cat-o’-nine-tails of nine leather thongs.
The last time anyone was sentenced to be whipped was 50 years ago in 1963, although that one was never carried out. Lashes had been laid on since the Colonial days, but not since 1952, and times had changed.
Bert Carvel, the Democratic governor, commuted the sentence as fast as he could to keep the case from getting into the court system and turning Delaware into a laughingstock. “My thinking is this thing shouldn’t go to the Supreme Court and embarrass the state,” Carvel said, in a quote from the Wilmington Morning News of Feb. 22, 1964....
A man who was whipped in the 1940s for stealing a car talked about it during a newspaper interview in the 1960s. “It made me feel like an animal,” he said. “It doesn’t rehabilitate anyone. It degrades him. It makes him worse.”...
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75 comments:
"... perhaps contemplating whether you might prefer a minute of whipping to a year in prison..."
This is where the possibility of prison rape could be a deciding factor.
I am Laslo.
It's terrible we are losing these important historical monuments designed to remind Blacks to know their place. If they aren't reminded of their horrible history, they might not be so grateful for the less severe abuse by the 21st Century gladiators of the police state.
So, when are they going to tear down Auschwitz?
Whipping puts the perp back at his job and doesn't cost anything to support him. So there's an increase in perp dignity and state efficiency with whipping.
If you whip and jail the same guy, it's probably a different matter, unless it's a light jailing to avoid an injuring whipping.
Nobody seems to understand slavery either. It's the alternative to killing the defeated enemy, a win-win. It was made obsolete by the free market, where a slave contributed more to society working in his own interest than working as a slave.
Until then it was world-wide and eternal.
It still exists in some basket-case economies.
Going around looking sad is just historical ignorance.
Does Singapore still beat with canes as a punishment?
Do asshole American tourists still behave themselves in Singapore?
The eight-foot whipping post made me think of the scene in Spinal Tap where the Stonehenge set comes down at the wrong scale.
So I am now picturing people tied to an eight-inch whipping post.
I'll stop there.
I am Laslo.
I went to junior high in Lubbock, Texas. They still allowed corporal punishment in the schools when I was there, in the early 1990s. They gave kids a choice, detention or a paddling by the assistant principal.
Whipping Post - Best blues song ever!
Leaving it in place, would be a stark contrast to the surrounding area, with cars passing by, buildings or businesses from today. It would have more impact in comparison to today's more civilized society. It would say 'Here. Right here we once whipped people. Such was our society then. Remember who we were and strive to be better.' Today we just shoot people, as they wash their car in the street, or sit on their porches, and no one even goes to jail for it. No one even blinks at it.
I wonder how we'll end up commemorating todays society? What 'historical' pieces will be left for future generations to remove out of embarrassment? Planned Parenthood clinics? Whole city streets in Chicago? The number of black people murdered in these places, and more, certainly outnumber the whipped in Delaware by...oh...let's say millions?
But such sensibilities in Delaware to remove a whipping post. Joe Biden's campaign must be looking to clean up his state.
If it were part of some larger historical display and they sanitized it by removing the whipping post, I would object to that. But if it's just sitting somewhere, without context, then why not move it? I don't see any reason why the location is important or valuable. So what if that's the exact spot? What matters is that the post existed into modern times (loosely defined as post-war).
Removing history is just the beginning of The Great Reset.
They had better not cancel The Allman Brothers.
Whipping Post
"It's quite another thing to allow an ABORTION CLINIC to remain in place along a busy public street - a cold, deadpan display that does not adequately account for the traumatic legacy it represents, and that still reverberates among communities of color in our state." Seems to fit.
Its a pity - the thing was probably the main tourist attraction in that town.
All over Britain there are local attractions that play off their gruesome histories. The most important of course is the Tower of London. The beefeater tours go on and on about beheadings.
Lyle, I remember corporal punishment in schools- in the 60s/70s in the Detroit area. It was mainly in our Industrial Arts, or 'shop' classes. But even if you screwed up in another class, you were sent to see the guy who ran the shop classes. He would fashion a big ole wood paddle drilled with holes to allow air to pass through as it went on it's way to meet your butt. There were some who became regulars unfortunately bent over to get a few. There was the occasional wrong-doer. I managed to get through a couple of years with no lasting marks on my behind, but two things I do remember. The look on the shop teacher's face, which showed an out-of-place enjoyment. And the look on even the strongest, most bravado guys on the receiving end, which was a fighting back of tears.
Ah...my old school.
On the other hand, the schools were intact, we learned, we grew, and we went on to be productive. Today, those same schools have much different punishments being doled out- by the students themselves. The teachers run for their lives.
Wooden paddles hung behind many instructors in the junior high of my 1960's. I've been introduced to corporal punishment. It was brutal, but effective.
That said, *clears throat*
I've been run down and I've been lied to.
And I don't know why, I let that mean woman make me a fool.
She took all my money, wrecks my new car.
Now she's with one of my good time buddies,
They're drinkin in some cross-town bar.
Sometimes I feel, sometimes I feel,
Like I been tied to the whippin' post.
Tied to the whippin' post, tied to the whippin' post.
Good Lord, I feel like I'm dyin'.
My friends tell me, that I've been such a fool.
But I had to stand by and take it baby, all for lovin' you.
Drown myself in sorrow as I look at what you've done.
But nothing seemed to change, the bad times stayed the same,
And I can't run.
Sometimes I feel, sometimes I feel,
Like I been tied to the whippin' post.
Tied to the whippin' post, tied to the whippin' post.
Good Lord, I feel like I'm dyin'.
Sometimes I feel, sometimes I feel,
Like I been tied to the whippin' post.
Tied to the whippin' post, tied to the whippin' post.
Good Lord, I feel like I'm dyin'.
In the future, The State will convince you that you never supported Trump.
Someone cue The Allman Brothers.
History...so old....so passé. Who needs it anyway?
If they aren't reminded of their horrible history, they might not be so grateful for the less severe abuse by the 21st Century gladiators of the police state.
I assume that Howard has just promised to never call the police if attacked or his home is invaded. Good to know.
You are approaching Freder levels of absurdity.
“with African Americans being punished disproportionately" until minority society corrects the problem where 3% of the US population commits 50% of the crime any punishment is going to be disproportionate. What do you expect? We must let minorities be held to a lower standard and let them commit more crimes than other types of people? I guess that is the demand? Do they want permanent juvenile status all their lives? How can you have pride in being a self sufficient citizen?
Having that post around is intolerable. It's like having a noose hanging on the courthouse door. It's like setting up a guillotine in front of Jeff Bezos' house. It's ...
So us Southerners aren't the only knuckle-dragging racist troglodytes. smh
I understood that Delaware and Maryland used the whipping post to punish wife-beaters, which strikes me (so to speak) as being somehow appropriate.
It’s those damn Romans and their slaves everywhere. Julius Caesar famously bragged that after he conquered Gaul, that he killed 1/3, sold 1/3 into slavery and used the last 1/3 of the Celts to run Rome’s new Provence of the Empire. They invented Industrial Strength slavery. The British Empire took their place using the Royal Navy to extend the practice all over the globe. And when we were next on the list, George Washington and his Army of Volunteers from the Scots Irish Presbyterians stopped the SOBs.
whipping post has been removed ...with African Americans being punished disproportionately
Now remove schools and jails and prisons and, well, IQ tests, and while we're removing stuff to satisfy the whims of communities of color, how about removing the SAT and ACT...oh, wait, they already did.
still reverberates among communities of color in our state.
Oh, those poor little dears in your state, I'm sure removing a post will stop those reverberations.
As Blacks commit more crimes, more violent crimes and them more often that Whites (And almost
infinitely more than Asians) their more frequent punishments are PROPORTIONAL to their crimes.
All over Britain there are local attractions that play off their gruesome histories.
"After Robert the Bruce's Statue Was Vandalized by BLM, the National Trust for Scotland Apologized to Blacks for the Medieval King's Racism"
Delaware, Delaware, wait isn’t there a great and prominent US senator from Delaware. A esteemed legislator and a champion of the downtrodden? What is his name? I’m sure our truthful and unbiased media will tell us.
Nick Rivers, for one, thinks whipping is better than being back in school.
"Thank god."
Doc Karen: You need to up your testosterone to prevent those hysterical leaps of illogical emotion. Take a pill or better yet lose 50-lbs to free up some of the natural man juice if you have any left.
I'll never forget my Honeymoon in New Orleans, and seeing a Slave Exchange, so wanting to investigate it, only to discover whites had turned it into a racist fern bar, local blacks knew not to enter.
I ruined their fun as much as they did mine.
America.
I'm curious about the recidivism rate. The Singapore lad expressed a whole new reverence for the local laws IIRC.
Lyle, I remember corporal punishment in schools
In my high-school they once gave a "paddlin" to all the boys in a class who missed a certain question on a test, inadvertently imparting important lessons about the concepts of "discrimination", "arbitrary and capricious", and "the banality of evil".
We were in Williamsburg, VA last summer and there is a 'Colonial' part of town that is like a theme park. Workers dress in old-fashioned clothes and demonstrate crafts like blacksmithing, shoemaking, etc. There are the old stocks where tourists stick their heads and hands into the holes and mug for the camera. I guess these will be taken down as well, even though it seemed they were used to punish mostly white folks back in the day.
What about those painted, cartoonish tableau at the beach...the ones without heads where you stand behind it and pretend you are the guy with the ripped abs, and the women pretend they are the ones with the tiny bikini and curves. Is that sizeism now?
You know what can really cause reverberations? Elk statues:
Rioters Destroy Historic 120-Year-Old ‘Elk Fountain’ Statue In Portland
I remember corporal punishment in schools- in the 60s/70s in the Detroit area
For me it was 1977ish. 2nd grade. There was always talk around the playground about who got paddled by the principal, and questions about how bad it was. The tough's for the most part said it didn't matter, they took it.
Then my turn came. I don't remember what I did wrong, but was sent to the principals office. A "discussion" about what I had done wrong. The long paddle laying on the seat next to me. Being told to to bend over the chair. My face to the wall, my hands on the arms of the 1970's modern steel metal office chair. I don't remember his words, but I do distinctly remember the sound of that wooden paddle hitting the seat of the faux leather office chair next to me, and a promise that if I did wrong again, it would be on my butt the next time.
I couldn't get back to class fast enough. Later, when the other boys asked me how it was, I just sheepishly responded with, "I took it". Perpetuating the myth. Heck it's cheaper for everybody than detention.
I expect a lot of the corporal punishment back in the 70's was just that... threats. But it worked. I didn't want to experience it for real.
That whipping post on the courthouse steps served the same purpose. A reminder of punishment for bad behavior.
Nowadays it's lawyers and lawsuits.
Next, Delaware plans to raze prisons. Disproportional incarceration you know. Racist structures. The worst kind.
Oh my.
The whipping post is nothing special in that respect. Every form of criminal punishment is imposed on African-Americans disproportionately. Now, we can argue over why that is, but it's a fact.
If you want to get rid of your whipping post because you think it's barbaric, that's one thing. But getting rid of it because you think it's racist, if taken to its logical conclusion, ends up in getting rid of all forms of criminal punishment.
"Outrage and critical thinking seldom go hand in hand." Ayaan Hirsi about four days ago.
We're going through a hysteria - if you disagree in any way with this "woke" thinking, if you think in any way that BLM is wrong - then you're not just wrong, you're a racist. You're either with the "anti-racist" movement - and agree with it all - or you're a racist.
The problem with this hysteria is there's little pushing back on it. The media, our universities, the elites are either fully with it out of liberal guilt or afraid to criticize it.
It's going to pass eventually; the outrage will flame out; but what it leaves behind will be quite a mess.
Blogger Howard said...
“It's terrible we are losing these important historical monuments designed to remind Blacks to know their place.”
How fortunate that these monuments are being replaced by Democrat city leaders with tolerance for intraracial black homicide, rioting, burning and looting, and disproportionate levels of black crime. It’s a whole other “place” for urban African-Americans. Add this to those leaders’ tolerance for illegal immigration including Central and South American gangs and we have your brave new lefty world!
Are you excited, Howie?
Howard
Hey, once gone how do you prove it ever existed? What Confederate generals? What whipping post?
Yet crosses are displayed everywhere, as a warning.
Bring back the whipping post. It's far more humane than our current system.
"contemplating whether you might prefer a minute of whipping to a year in prison." There is no such thing as a person who would choose a year in prison.
Personally, if I had to choose (and I wasn't going to die from it), I would choose whipping over imprisonment. But then I'm one of those weirdo
reactionaries who value liberty. I assume "liberals," "progressives" and other statists, with their apparent love of serfdom, would choose imprisonment. And why not? Their meals, housing and medical care would all be provided by the taxpayers, so it would seem like their ideal society.
The fact that African Americans were punished disproportionately (if indeed they were) doesn't seem like much of a reason to take something down. History is more than just what happened to Blacks, and race doesn't seem to be particularly salient to the historical use or function of the whipping post. It's like objecting to tall ships because some tall ships were used to carry slaves. Or objecting to monuments celebrating the US victory in the second world war because the army was segregated. Yes, mistreatment of Blacks was a part of that history and ought not be elided. But that's not the whole history, and often not the most important piece for understanding how we got from there to here.
History... historical precedents die in darkness. Surely, a double-edged scalpel of progress.
Time to cancel the Allman Brothers I guess....
Wooden padddles in the classroom were still a thing in Vermont when I was going through grade school in the 70s. Not that any of us ever had up close and personal time with it. But, I do recall in first grade that there were two or three of us girls who were considered disruptive (chatty and over friendly) who got threatened with the paddle if we didn't zip it and return to our seats.
......and this monument to cruelty stands in the home state of a presidential candidate and does him no harm.
Remind me again what the controversy was regarding Rick Perry and that stupid rock at that hunting camp in central Texas....
I would remove it, too. It's the kind of thing that belongs in a county museum, not the public square. Would you leave a gallows on your main street?
There's a scant 1 or 2% of things that the current hysteria mongers are right about. I'd say this is one. Not hard to see how a publicly displayed whipping post or gallows could be seen as a latent threat.
All things are relative. The Russians used a knout to administer corporal punishment. A knout had a metal ball at the end of the lash. I forget the number, but if you had any more than, say, twenty lashes you stood a fair chance of dying. I read somewhere that there was a pretty high mortality rate from such whippings.....I was reading a book about Wellington's army in the Peninsular War. Whippings were fairly common and for such minor offenses as breaking route step to avoid puddles. I don't think the officers would deliberately disable their own army. (Which is not to say that they weren't pricks.) Anyway, the cat o' nines was survivable and was not solely administered to slaves.....When you weigh the pros and cons, it might be better to be a North American slave than a Russian serf or an enlisted man in the British armed forces.
On the record: Some men's suicides (in prison) were attributed to the fear of whipping that they faced as part of their punishment.
Delaware still had execution by hanging up until 1996.
If they hadn't disposed of the old gallows, it could have been displayed where the whipping post is being removed from. Coulda been a tourist attraction for the hometown of president Biden.
Boston Public Schools in the 60's (and earlier of course) had corporal punishment. It was called the "Rattan" as it was usually a very thin rod made of rattan, or some other wood. The teachers were not allowed to raise their hand above the shoulder to administer the lash to the student's outstretched palm. They got very good at using their wrist to inflict maximum pain. I remember one teacher had a set of switches, of varying thickness, stored in a metal canister with a little bit of water covering the tips. He would select the appropriate one for the given infraction. You had to stand there and offer up your hand. It took a lot of courage to do so.
Also, Boston had de facto segregated schools. Such an enlightened "City on a Hill".
Is Walt Disney World removing the stocks?
Howard: “It's terrible we are losing these important historical monuments designed to remind Blacks to know their place.”
Last night Howard's Heroes burned to the ground a large statue of an.......(wait for it, wait for it)....elk!! In Portland. Put up by a conservationist.
As Howard has explained in the past, conservationist funded statues of wildlife are a direct physical threat to blacks everywhere.
Howard is "smart" that way. Not dumb, like some people say.
Crack Emcee: "I'll never forget my Honeymoon in New Orleans, and seeing a Slave Exchange, so wanting to investigate it, only to discover whites had turned it into a racist fern bar, local blacks knew not to enter."
Good News Crack! There are, today, active open air slave auctions being held just about every day in Libya and the Middle East where muslims continue their centuries long practice of selling black slaves.
You should get over there right away and congratulate them on not being white!
Huzzah!
Gov. Russ Peterson (R) took office in January 1969, and one of his first actions was to order the removal of the whipping posts. Am not sure why or how there was one still standing in Sussex County as all were to be placed in storage. When told that he was violating the law in ordering removal, his response was that the law simply required that there be a whipping post in each county and there were ... but in storage. His first action was to remove the National Guard from New Castle County where, following the 1968 riots, his D predecessor who Peterson defeated, insisted they were necessary months thereafter. I was on Peterson's staff ... he had never held office before he was elected and ran on a platform of prison and criminal justice reform. Eliminating the whipping post in 1972 was part of comprehensive criminal justice reform. In those days, the Rs were the liberals, and Biden's party represented the status quo and "good ole boys". He also spearheaded the enactment of coastal zone legislation to protect wetlands. Delaware was the first state to do so, and again, Ds opposed it by and large.
What is a "racist fern bar"? Like, are all fern bars racist? Or was this one special?
Michael K said...
If they aren't reminded of their horrible history, they might not be so grateful for the less severe abuse by the 21st Century gladiators of the police state.
I assume that Howard has just promised to never call the police if attacked or his home is invaded. Good to know.
Funny, I keep being tempted to ask Howard for his address. But of course that just means he's good at his job. Anyway, far better he and his family get reaved by those he loves. He probably lives somewhere safe though. He thinks. Like the McCloskeys.
Howie, how do you think YOU will survive this if it goes on? Show them your Malcolm X posters? Your Rule 3 discipline? How about your womenfolk? It never even occurs to you that the crocodile don't owe you, does it. Where you live in Massholechewshits, can you even legally have weapons of a suitable nature? Or is that sort of thing for the help, I mean the private security?
Re: Cracker Emcee:
The first thing I thought when I saw this post was actually "What happened to the Tyburn Tree?" It was apparently dismantled about two hundred years ago, but it's the kind of thing I would be mildly in favour of keeping around, both because it's of general historical interest and also because it's what Tyburn is famous for.
Nichevo getting his stalker on. I live in a mixed race working class neighborhood in Center Mass. Plenty of protests near by, but nada vandalism. It's as friendly a place as where I lived in Cherokee County, GA. The fear and loathing is all in you paranoid skeezophrenetics pretty little heads. "The scary black man is coming for me!" Jebus, you people still shit you drawers over campfire stories. Fucking snowflakes.
I love me some barbecued elk, thanks for that tasty thought, Drago.
"Does Singapore still beat with canes as a punishment?"
Yes.
"Do asshole American tourists still behave themselves in Singapore?"
Don't know, but asshole British tourists apparently don't, with a bunch of them recently expelled for rowdy pub crawling behavior.
Drago said...
"Good News Crack! There are, today, active open air slave auctions being held just about every day in Libya and the Middle East where muslims continue their centuries long practice of selling black slaves."
I like how Thomas Sowell has taught you guys to run around the world, pointing out all the people who never said "All Men Are Created Equal" - and so have no place in this discussion - making you suckers for probably the most mutton-headed intellectual dodges for slavery in the history of our muttonheads.
I like the old man as much as the next guy but come on, you guys - you have to THINK about what he's saying - not just admire his skin color.
Jupiter said...
What is a "racist fern bar"? Like, are all fern bars racist? Or was this one special?
Little hoods on the foliage.
"this is where Delaware whipped its convicted criminals, and imagine that happening to you, perhaps contemplating whether you might prefer a minute of whipping to a year in prison."
Exactly. But we have become so civilized.
"Little hoods on the foliage."
Ooh! Ooh! I'm digging it, Daddy-O! Did they put them in the drinks, too, like little umbrellas?
' "The scary black man is coming for me!" Jebus, you people still shit you drawers over campfire stories. Fucking snowflakes.'
You've got it wrong, Howie. Watching blacks riot is like watching rain fall. What else is new? That's why they legalized abortion, no matter what the white chicks may think. Ruth the Truth let that one out of the bag a while ago. Maggie Sanger knew what she was about. What's scary this time is that it's white kids rioting. It's like rap "music", they see the blacks looting and they think, "Wow, cool! Free shit!". Monkey do, monkey see.
I just completed an English Army series where the angered officers would often yell out "I'll see his backbone!" the slaves of the US were not different than the low born Englishman. A true Dr. Evil of the old south would have freed his slaves and stopped feeding and housing them, and charged them all they were paid in the company store.
"With African-Americans being punished disproportionately"?
What does that mean? Based on the size of their population? Or based on their crime rate? Because blacks really do commit crimes at a far higher rate than other ethnic groups. Check the FBI stats.
Unless the law(s) is(are) changed to focus on groups instead of individuals, Black will always be disproportionally at the receiving end, since they disproportionately Represent the perpetrator end. Black Actions Matter.
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