"That kind of monitoring and information sharing may well constitute unwarranted investigation of people exercising their constitutional rights to seek justice. The executive branch continues to run headlong in the wrong direction."
Said Hugh Handeyside, a senior attorney for the ACLU, quoted in "The DEA Has Been Given Permission To Investigate People Protesting George Floyd’s Death/The Justice Department gave the agency the temporary power 'to enforce any federal crime committed as a result of the protests over the death of George Floyd'" (BuzzFeed News).
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69 comments:
Nice to see that, even today, the ACLU isn't ALWAYS wrong. Surveillance should be done by the FBI. The DEA should not use this crisis to drive their mission creep and expanded budget requests.
You people love me some deep State Police State action... As long as it is directed against people of color and people who defend people of color. The Democrat campaign attack ads are writing themselves as we speak.
Roberts will go with the libs again on this one.
Some rights are more equal than others.
Free to kill black retired cop at Pawn shop in STL.
Like the media, ACLU has dropped all pretense.
First snark: Sitting Presidents shouldn't be conducting covert surveillance of political opponents on behalf of thier party's candidate, either, but no ACLU to the rescue there...
Why can’t law enforcement personnel be reassigned to different tasks in a crisis? Is the ACLU trying to prevent the use of extra resources to Investigate crime?
“During the protests in Baltimore in 2015 over the death of Freddie Gray, who died in police custody, the Department of Homeland Security monitored Twitter and other social media platforms for "intelligence" on the protesters. In Ferguson, Missouri, during the 2014 protests over Michael’s Brown’s killing by a white police officer, DHS planned to "plug" federal officers into protests to conduct surveillance and collect intelligence. And the FBI conducted extensive monitoring and surveillance of the Occupy Wall Street protest movement that began in 2011.“
Does the ACLU object depending on who’s President at the time?
Second: ACLU has accepted money from Proteus Fund, a Soros Open Society Foundation recipient.
Howard said...You people love me some deep State Police State action... As long as it is directed against people of color and people who defend people of color.
Uh huh. Are you paying any attention at all?
Perhaps Hugh Handeyside can show me where drug use is mentioned anywhere in the text of the First Amendment? While he’s at it perhaps he can describe how assaulting people, smashing windows, looting, and burning buildings comports with the adverb in the “right of the people peaceably to assemble ...”?
The hypocrisy is about to get thick here.
rehajm at 7:10 AM
First snark: Sitting Presidents shouldn't be conducting covert surveillance of political opponents on behalf of thier party's candidate, either, but no ACLU to the rescue there...
Good point.
Based on the FISA warrant against Carter Page, the communications of various people were intercepted and studied by the FBI.
* How many communications were intercepted and studied?
* From how many people?
* From which people?
* What information did the FBI seek in the intercepted communications?
* How did the FBI use the studied information?
Also, how much physical surveillance of people did the FBI conduct based on the FISA warrant?
Has the ACLU ever expressed any concern about these FBI actions against Donald Trump's supporters, associates and relatives?
I hate this type of deep state BS. But this is clearly not a DEA role and is deeply troubling.
This is FBI, 100%. There are anarchists and serious criminals destroying our city centers, burning our government buildings, and inciting riots.
That should be investigated and, when appropriate, given to local police.
The American Criminal Liberties Union never surprises.
I'm struggling with this guy's idea of covert. If you are in public, carrying or handing out drugs in front of a row of police officers in body armor, then I don't think it unreasonable for an officer to note what is going on, develop probable cause, and conduct a search.
Alas, unknown is right about the ACLU. Just last week, they were endorsing the FBI's entrapment and lies about Gen. Flynn. They aren't about Civil Liberties. It's not like the ACLU cared to even squawk about the enforced house arrest of the nation in the past few months.
Covert means secret. It doesn't mean illegal, nor does it mean warrantless.
The fact that Shea is asking for authority under current statute seems to be totally appropriate to me.
I was going to dump a bucket of paint over my head in Forward solidarity but now I'm thinking I better let Howard pick the color.
Does the ACLU object depending on who’s President at the time?
@Stephen, to ask the question is to answer it.
The ACLU is a joke.
Does anyone think they’d stand up for the rights of the Nazi Party today?
They can’t even support the second amendment.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm guessing that the DEA is only allowed to use evidence obtained through surveillance in its own drug related cases. What if they also uncover evidence of conspiracy, arson, assault, etc. related to the current rioting? I'm guessing it would not be admissible in those cases. What I think is going on here is that this authority would make that evidence admissable.
Others more qualified are encouraged to comment.
Comes from jason leopold, who last assured us he had phone transcripts from prague.
The US needs a True Civil Liberties Organisation, unfortunately the ACLU has become just another Leftist Organisation, focused on virtue signaling and not pissing off their donors.
Stuff the ACLU should be focused on:
- Spying on Trump (FISA etc)
- Julian Assange
- NSA data warehousing
- IRS Scandal
- support against lawsuits by CA against documentarian of planned parenthood baby parts
- deplatforming
- shadowbanning
- doxing of conservatives
- Twitter mobs
- judicial immunity
- prosecutional immunity
- qualified immunity
- free speech on campuses
- speech boded in campuses
- censoring of professors
- Asian college admissions discrimination
- religious discrimination (especially Christian)
"Drug enforcement agents should not be conducting covert surveillance of protests and First Amendment protected speech."
"That kind of monitoring and information sharing may well constitute unwarranted investigation of people exercising their constitutional rights to seek justice. The executive branch continues to run headlong in the wrong direction."
Wait, I thought "people in public" have no expectation of privacy? I don't think I want this to happen either BUT I also don't think it is against the law. If I can video the police and I can video a crowd, AND there are already security cameras in public, what is "extra" wrong about this?
Is the issue that these rioting THUGS should not get "standard" public scrutiny? Also if you would want any random sample of the posted video, these are NOT peaceful protesters.
I'm happy to be wrong, tim mcguire.
I think "temporary power" is the significant phrase. The President can meet emergencies.
I do not understand this stuff. Literally no one is objecting to people exercising their First Amendment rights. Protest away.
However, people are rioting, and looting, and literally murdering other people. It is the most fundamental duty of government to stop them from doing that. If anyone doesn't understand that, they have no business voting or having anything to do with government.
The FBI shouldn't have been spying on the campaign of Candidate Trump, either, but the ACLU had no problem with that
Sorry, kids, but that ship has sailed. If you're not working to crucify everyone in the Obama Admin who abused their power to spy on Trump / republicans / political opponents, then you have no standing now to complain about any abuse of power by the Trump Admin
You picked your rules, now enjoy them
Remember when the ACLU was dedicated to preserving the civil rights of all Americans before it became a left wing propaganda machine for the Democrats? Me neither.
Hilarious. NOW, the ACLU is back caring about civil liberties because its antifa. Gee, how *Surprising*. BTW, isn't the Federal Government involved in non-stop surviallence of Right-wing Extremist groups like the KKK? Or am I getting the SPLC mixed up with the FBI?
Not a fan of giving temporary power to gov't agencies to do more stuff, but not a fan of looting, arson, theft, and the murder of policeman under the bullshit cover of "social justice".
Oh, and before I forget, fuck the ACLU. They are liars and poseurs, and organs of the Left.
Remember when the ACLU was dedicated to preserving the civil rights of all Americans before it became a left wing propaganda machine for the Democrats? Me neither.
Deep State Thoughts
by Hugh Handeyside.
ACLu became leftwing - the ACLu only cares about the civil liberties of the leftwing.
Sounds right to me. Obama weaponized the fbi,cia,irs and the doj. It’s the new normal ( so I am told by the democrat propagandists ), so rock on.
Oh I agree completely. We should only focus on rioting. For example it was just awful how Al Capone was convicted of tax evasion.
As Rahm said to BHO, never let a crisis go to waste.
Howard said...
I'm happy to be wrong, tim mcguire.
That explains a lot.
Howard said...
I'm happy to be wrong, tim mcguire.
6/3/20, 8:16 AM
Then you must be living in a constant state of bliss...
it's all Department of Homeland Security, what advantage is there to having FBI, DEA and ATF as separate agencies?
MikeR said...I do not understand this stuff. Literally no one is objecting to people exercising their First Amendment rights.
The ACLU is morphing into another SPLC--a fundraising scam that has realized it is good business to bash the United States.
"I'm happy to be wrong,...."
Says the happiest MF on the planet.
"Perhaps Hugh Handeyside can show me where drug use is mentioned anywhere in the text of the First Amendment?"
Read the text of the authorization at the link. It is NOT about any sort of claim that drugs have anything to do with the investigation. It is giving the DEA power to work on ALL federal law violations — just repositioning them to help.
Note: I'm not saying "the ACLU are right, but they're Democrats, so I don't care."
I'm saying "the ACL have firmly established that they are Democrat Party hacks, so I'm not going to listen to any complaint they have about and Republican, ever."
Either you have a set of principles, and you apply them equally to all sides, or you're a partisan organization that rightly gets ignored by everyone on the other team.
The ACLU is on team "spy on Candidate Trump." So they can go to hell
Howard said...
You people love me some deep State Police State action... As long as it is directed against people of color and people who defend people of color.
Sorry Howard, but so long as you love "deep State Police State action... As long as it is directed against people" you don't like, you don't get to whine about ANY spying, against anyone.
And no one who is busy burning down black neighborhoods and black owned businesses qualifies as "defend[ing] people of color."
The person here who wants to "defend people of color" is President Trump, and you're opposed to him. So take your evil racism elsewhere
Howard said...I'm happy to be wrong, tim mcguire.
If you were happy to be sober, you might make a more meaningful contribution here, Howard.
Professor Althouse:
If you're destroy property, or assaulting people, you're not protesting, you're not "engaging in protected 1st Amendment activity", you're a rioting criminal thug.
DEA are sworn Federal law agents. What legitimate grounds do you have to complain about the President using them to target criminal activity?
Ann Althouse said...
Read the text of the authorization at the link. It is NOT about any sort of claim that drugs have anything to do with the investigation. It is giving the DEA power to work on ALL federal law violations — just repositioning them to help.
Seriously, so what? Any big city police department is going to have a "Narcotics" section. That doesn't mean those cops can't be used for riot control when there's a riot going on
it's all Department of Homeland Security, what advantage is there to having FBI, DEA and ATF as separate agencies?
It keeps every GM's little empire intact!
The impression I get is that antifa (and sympathizers) declared war on law enforcement and now they are shocked and angered that law enforcement is fighting back.
It would help if the ACLU still cared about civil liberties. If they did, this might sound like an actual concern. Instead, it sounds more like a mob lawyer trying to run interference for his client.
Just like the broken clock analogy, the ACLU is probably right on this one.
My rule of thumb is, imagine what happens if the crew around Biden gets their hands on this. Is the outcome positive for the country?
Sure, it might feel good to give them a taste of their own medicine, but it's more about feelz than reality and is ultimately counter-productive. That's not to excuse any of the prior administration's many questionable and outright illegal actions; rather, it's to avoid doing anything that provides the next administration with carte blanche to do more of the same.
Shark was jumped a long time ago re the ACLU.
Last week we were gonna undergo surveillance and tracing (including our electronics) so “the government” could know everyone with whom we’d been in contact, and it was juuuuuust fine because it was “Covid-19” and liberals love government control of YOU and ME.
This week we’re back to being racist and authoritarian and evil because the liberals wanna do whatever liberals wanna do and we can’t have any government control of THEM.
Can someone stop the world, I want to get off...
"The executive branch continues to run headlong in the wrong direction."
And the right direction would be . . .
Considering that local Dems are running headlong in circles, somebody's got to do something different.
"Remember when the ACLU was dedicated to preserving the civil rights of all Americans before it became a left wing propaganda machine for the Democrats? Me neither."
The ACLU was founded to allow people to contribute to a defense fund for Communists without being charged themselves. However, the individual state organizations have a great deal of autonomy, so some of them still do something worthwhile once in a while.
As a former naval officer, I recall that contingency planning often included 2nd and 3rd order backup units, to be mobilized in an emergency. Asking federal law enforcement agencies to cooperate in an extreme, temporary situation has always been an approved strategy for rapid expansion of the force to meet a contingency. This is true everywhere and always, across all federal agencies.
This is the same reason the USMC trains all office clerks to be confident shooting the M16 and 9mm pistol; everyone in uniform must be ready to jump into the line and hold their positions in extremis. As long as they are appropriately deployed, we should be happy as taxpayers to get more mileage for the massive spend on the federal law enforcement archipelago.
Three DEA sources told BuzzFeed News they are troubled by the memo and see it as an example of the Justice Department potentially abusing its power in an attempt to smear the protests and crack down on protected First Amendment activity.
We are half way through our second week of civil insurrection. Burning and looting continues nightly. Civilians protecting property and police are being murdered. This is not what the First Amendment was designed to protect.
Meanwhile the media conflates lawful protest and anarchy.
And the left wing politicians are cheering from the sidelines. Mayor DiBlasio set curfew at 11 p.m. when most cities across the country had 6 p.m. After a week of destruction, he moved it yesterday to 8.
And why not call in the National Guard as Los Angeles had done? Actually, New York has the largest police force in the nation with more than 36,000 officers. De Blasio should call on his own police resources but he won't. Even Gov. Cuomo has criticized the mayor.
And now all of a sudden we hear of abuse of power?
“And no one who is busy burning down black neighborhoods and black owned businesses qualifies as "defend[ing] people of color."”
Especially if they wear Hawaiian shirts.
@Althouse, how about you answer my second question?
My understanding is that if the DEA finds evidence of a non-drug related federal crime during the course of a legitimate drug investigation then they are not merely allowed to develop that evidence by are in fact legally required to further develop that evidence. Am I wrong about this? Because from where I sit the ACLU is blowing smoke.
As usual.
Contrast this reaction by police to the protests over the killing of George Floyd where law-enforcement are just letting people burn down buildings and loot entire cities without any repercussions. But Lemp’s family is being stalked on social media by government agents and threatened with arrest should they try to speak up about this injustice.
Who is Duncan Lemp?
Duncan Lemp is a name you’ve probably never heard. It’s never been on a picket sign or splashed all over 24/7 news channels. But Lemp was gunned down by police, unarmed, while he slept next to his pregnant girlfriend on March 12 of this year for the crime of owning a firearm. There were no riots or protests in his name. When his friends and family planned to protest the Montgomery County police in Maryland, they were threatened with a $5000 fine and a year in jail because of the COVID-19 pandemic. Jim Bovard at The American Conservative has done a great job reporting on this story that no one else in the mainstream press seems interested in, maybe because Lemp is white and his death doesn’t help paint the police as racists in order to divide people and foment hatred. His death is simply not interesting to the race baiters, but it is terrifying and relevant to what happened to George Floyd and every other innocent person who has died at the hands of police.
Lemp was the subject of an anonymous call turning him in for suspicion of having a gun illegally. He was executed without a trial while he slept as a result of “red flag laws” that are in use in the state of Maryland and effectively erase due process. Five guns were found, none of them illegal.
…a Montgomery County SWAT team launched an unprovoked attack on the Lemp family home at 4:30 a.m. on March 12. Lemp was fatally wounded by the first shots that the police fired through his bedroom window. His family says he was sleeping in bed with his pregnant girlfriend at the time.
Police claim that they received an anonymous tip two months earlier that Lemp possessed firearms. The police department asserted Lemp was prohibited from owning firearms due to a juvenile conviction but there are apparently zero court records or other records to support that justification. Regardless of Lemp’s juvenile history, there was no evidence that he posed an imminent threat justifying a frontal assault that included throwing flash-bang explosive devices into the family home.
The coverup
The police are in overdrive to hide everything from the family who want answers. Even the arrest warrant used to attack him in his home has been withheld from the family. Montgomery County has spied on the family’s Facebook postings and sent their lawyer a nasty letter threatening them with fines and jail if they protested the police.
County prosecutor Haley Roberts sent a warning letter to Lemp family lawyers Jonathan Fellner and Rene Sandler: “Open source information indicates that your clients intend to participate in this planned protest” over the killing of Duncan Lemp at Montgomery County Police headquarters on April 25. “Open source” apparently means that the local police are tracking Lemp family members on social media, where the Lemp killing is still enraging legions of folks. Roberts warned that Gov. Hogan’s “‘stay-at-home’ order… does not appear to include planned protests.” Roberts stated that the county police department asked the lawyers to remind the Lemp family “of the Governor’s orders, as well as the charge from those orders and state law mandating law enforcement must enforce these orders.” At least the prosecutor did not hint that the SWAT team would attack them if they showed up.
Free to kill black retired cop at Pawn shop in STL.
Kill. Abort. Lynch. 50 shades of post-apartheid Progressive South Africa.
There was an interesting video this morning of a group of "protestors" exercising their constitutional right to seek justice (and to get a "five finger discount" on a wide screen TV). You have to hand it to the group. They'd gotten on a slow moving freight train, broke into a container full of flat screen TVS and were busily tossing them down on track side. If you were quick and had a car nearby, you could get three TVs for the price of none.
I'm certain that the ACLU is "down" with this act of redistributive justice.
Now that antifa is targeted, they speak in favor of liberty.
What, isn't cocaine a thing any more? Has Baltimore been clean for a week, a month, a year? Is the Mexican border free of drug mules? Are junkies all on methadone?
The DEA is making a bureaucratic power grab and should be told that the FBI is the government agency that conducts political investigations.
Inga said...
Me: “And no one who is busy burning down black neighborhoods and black owned businesses qualifies as "defend[ing] people of color."”
Especially if they wear Hawaiian shirts.
How about if they wear black hoodies?
Since so far NONE of teh burning, looting, or killing has been done by these "Hawaiian shirt guys"
Blogger Howard said...
You people love me some deep State Police State action... As long as it is directed against people of color and people who defend people of color. The Democrat campaign attack ads are writing themselves as we speak.
I think I have it, Howie. Are you pregnant? I should warn you, ass babies turn out to be lawyers.
Blogger mikee said...
What, isn't cocaine a thing any more? Has Baltimore been clean for a week, a month, a year? Is the Mexican border free of drug mules? Are junkies all on methadone?
The DEA is making a bureaucratic power grab and should be told that the FBI is the government agency that conducts political investigations
See, that might not be the take. It might be because
A. The riots are being funded and or staffed by drug organization money or personnel.
B. Drug use at the riots provides some kind of enforcement leverage.
C. The DEA are the most or only trustworthy force available; the FBI is disgraced, ATF never should have existed.
D. DEA has slack time for some reason, has available capacity to surge into this role whereas other government agencies are too busy (dawn raids on seniors, etc).
This is obviously wrong and appalling.
It's also wrong for health bureaucrats who aren't actually accountable to elected officials to be able to get people arrested for being outside.
Being deeply suspicious of the police state and the permanent bureaucracy, I think all government authority needs to be reined in. I wonder how many people who think the expansion of government authority is great and the excuses for abuses must be accepted when it fits their agendas ever think about the precedents they're setting.
On a similar note, the governor of Texas has deputized all federal law officers as state law enforcement for the duration of his state of emergency declaration. This means, for example, that the Border Patrol could arrest someone for violating a Texas law--not allowed before.
The DEA is making a bureaucratic power grab and should be told that the FBI is the government agency that conducts political investigations
No one sane has trusted the FBI with political investigations since late 2016.
tim maguire,
"[Is Howard] paying any attention at all?"
What a silly question; he's not being paid do to that! ;-)
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