With a final rule published Tuesday in the Federal Register, the Trump administration is ending a five-year-old ban on the practices, which also include shooting swimming caribou from a boat and targeting animals from airplanes and snowmobiles. It will take effect in 30 days. State officials primarily composed of hunters in Alaska argued that the October 2015 regulations ordered by the Obama administration infringed on traditional native hunting practices and were more restrictive than what is permitted on state land....Native... doughnuts... I need more context here.
ADDED: Speaking of ethnicity and doughnuts:
Now, for something very nice pic.twitter.com/FWpz2as4bs
— Mark R. Levin (@marklevinshow) June 9, 2020
Posts
86 comments:
President Trump is cruel to mothers and to their cubs and pups!
Nanook's last name was Dunkin.
i don't subscribe to the WaPo. Does the article provide any context as far as needing or not needing to control over population of bears and caribou?
I tried this with our daughter in law. I put some doughnut pieces on her porch, then farther out on the front lawn and, sure enough, she left the kids in the living room and came out to grab the doughnut pieces.
It's cslled "baiting" and some states regulate what you can use to bait which animal.
For example, in NC you can "bait" deer with corn but cannot "bait" a bear with corn, only salt. But bears don't need salt every day. The trick, when hunting bear, was to locate your corn dispenser near a deer trail so the wildlife guys wouldn't confiscate your gun and truck.
-XC
PS - Insert obligatory cop/donut joke here.
What a legacy Trump is leaving.
"For hundreds of years before the White Man came, my people hunted the bear & the wolf. We lured them out of their dens with various items from the Dunkin' Donuts menu, each according to their tribe. For example, my tribe favored the Apple Fritter..."
I don't know how many Eskimos shoot caribou from a boat, but there might be a few...
“ Does the article provide any context as far as needing or not needing to control over population of bears and caribou”
Yes, it’s about Native American method of hunting that white people view as unsporting.
Lisa Murkowski is quoted saying the new regulation ““protects Alaska’s hunting and fishing traditions and upholds long-standing states’ rights,”
WaPo is playing up the empathy angle.
Unfortunately, within the last 30 years or so, the words "Native American" translates into the words "poor hunter".
Spearing spawning fish with lights powered by car batteries, in an aluminum boat powered with an electric motor. There is no Indian word for sportsmanship.
Why does Inga want to discriminate against native alaskans? Why does she hate the disadvantaged?
Love Trumps Hate!
☮️
I knew a guy who killed a swimming elk from a boat with a chainsaw. No shit.
Just another nuisance law pushed through by the Obama administration like turds through someone who's had a laxative, designed to solve a problem that doesn't exist except inside the febrile minds of self-proclaimed environmentalists.
Inga said...
What a legacy Trump is leaving.
Maybe, Inga, he is doing it solely for the benefit of the Native Indians (feathered).
i don't subscribe to the WaPo.
#metoo, but you don't need to.
Does the article provide any context as far as needing or not needing to control over population of bears and caribou?
Just this:
"Jim Adams, the [National Parks Conservation Association] association’s Alaska director, said the state’s real aim is to reduce the population of wolves and other predators to increase the numbers of caribou, moose and other game animals that sport hunters enjoy harvesting."
Canada's been doing that for years.
Democracy Dies in Darkness!
Isn’t baiting with donuts how the natives are hunting cops in Minnesota?
I have several Alaska friends that have been dealing with regulations associated w/ spotting from the air.
They would be flying to move around, not looking to hunt, but they’d incidentally see animals. Anywho, they didn’t really cheat the laws. If they decided to go after the animal(s) or mention it(them) to another person, they massively handicap their knowledge to the point that there isn’t much of an edge even though they had precisely spotted the meat.
The hunters (and fishers) that I know do tend to spend a lot of time complaining about laws, the only thing they hate more than legal restrictions are people who cheat by completely ignoring those legal restrictions.
Trump will personally fly to Alaska and club those cute baby seals to death.
Orange Man Bad.
"ordered by the Obama administration infringed on traditional native hunting practices"
Hmmmm, didn't know that double chocolate grazed donuts were part of the tradition of the tribes in the Northwest. Learning important stuff is why I check in with AA.
Worms give fishermen an unfair advantage.
Adult brown bears have been known to kill cubs, sometimes for food but sometimes... just because. Nature can be pretty mean too.
Yes, it’s about Native American method of hunting that white people view as unsporting.
I thought native American hunting traditions were about a source of food. They don't eat bears, do they? But maybe they still make something out of bear hides or guts or whatever.
Yes Inga, a great legacy.
Native hunting practices include what?
"A ban against luring mothers from their dens with doughnuts and other treats will be lifted."
Finally, I can take the den back from my wife.
Inga: "What a legacy Trump is leaving."
White chick in Wisconsin who is cool with the burning of cities disapproves of native americans hunting large game in desolate regions of Alaska because.........what? Russia russia russia?
Trump, respecting the desires of native american tribes to continue hunting large game, passes bill allowing them to hunt in the ways they deem most effective.
Naturally, this is a horrible thing.
I seriously thought this was some comedic take on locked-down fat chicks when I first glanced at it.
Althouse
Correct. White liberals are not sympathetic to the methods of subsistence hunting. They believe sport hunting barbaric but the unsporting techniques needed to get supper are beyond acceptable. Trust me, any of us would kill the baby bear if it came to that, if absolutely no Whole aFoods was nearby. And we would use our last blueberry scone as bait.
From an article where people actually know what the hell is going on (Inga don't read this as it would put you in danger of actually learning something):
"The Tanana Chiefs Conference, representing 42 tribes in the Interior, said last month it supports the rollback, because the 2015 rules threatened the tribes’ way of life and ancient sustainable-management practices."
Note: Inga now officially on record as opposing native american tribes protecting their way of life using ancient sustainable-management practices.
Here's the link to the article and a list of other rollbacks to obamas punitive and unnecessary 2015 power grab against the state of Alaska:
"The changes, published in the federal register on Tuesday, roll back 2015 prohibitions adopted under President Barack Obama. They open the door for hunters and trappers to take:
• Black bears, including cubs and sows with cubs, with artificial light at den sites.
• Bears using bait.
• Wolves and coyotes, including pups, during the denning season.
• Swimming caribou.
• Caribou from traveling motorboats.
• Black bears using dogs."
Another very interesting note: The article from the Alaska paper quotes native american tribal leaders in Alaska in support of this Trump action.
Meanwhile, the Washington Post article made sure to EXCLUDE comments from native american tribal leaders AND only showed pictures of white dudes hunting.
Gee, excluding the voices of native americans in an article about reestablishing native american practices.
Lefty Privilege.
Well they killed off all the other American megafauna 15000 years ago so why not.
WaPo got Turley in a tizzy about it today, talking terrible Trump transgressions. I like and admire Turley but it wasn’t his best moment.
Cave ursum.
As a great philopsher once observed:
"Donuts … is there anything they can't do?"
WaPo is playing up the empathy angle.
Scott Adams's characterization of empathy as leftist; and judgments about the stability of a system operating under those rules being a rightist concern.
With empathy-based decisions, Adams put it, the best complainer wins everything. The system collapses.
With constitutional-based systems of rules, it stands up pretty well. No empathy by rule, only what works.
Also seems like there is some cultural appropriation going on, unless Native Americans invented the donut.
Native Americans have hunted swimming Caribou for a long time. When the herds move they have to cross rivers, they wait until they are about half way across the river (no way for them to get away) and then get a couple feet away in a boat and shoot them in the head. Not terribly sporting, but this is really a subsistence food gathering process as opposed to a hunt. No meet is wasted and less energy/calories are expended by the hunter.
As for donuts and bears. Bears are extremely fond of sweets. In any state where baiting bear is legal (which I believe is every state that allows hunting bears including Wisconsin*), you use whatever sweets you can get your hands on. My brother likes to get expired candy bars from a candy distributor he knows and then covers the pile candy bars with molasses.
* you can also use dogs to hunt bear in Wisconsin, and presumably other states as well. You cannot shoot a bear in a den or if it is traveling with cubs.
I think the Rooftop Koreans and the Sidewalk Italians should be allowed to lure looters to their gunsights with the promise of free electronics and high-end jogging shoes.
The headline
"Trump administration makes it easier for hunters to kill bear cubs and wolf pups in Alaska"
is not "playing up the empathy angle".
You are willfully blind.
Another COVID-19 spreadsheet I prepared. At the bottom, you should see tabs for Alabama, Arizona, and California. I will add Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, and Virginia later today. The top sheet is just the all state data from which I drew the data for the detailed ones. If you don't see the tabs, let me know in a comment. Any other state you would like to see, also leave me a comment in the thread and I will add it. It won't get updated every day, but I can take requests.
What a legacy Trump is leaving.
Better they should riot, break windows, and loot shops. Leave the bears alone.
This is a perfect example of Trump nuance.
Native Americans are legally recognized as subsistence hunters. That is, members of some tribes kill wild game from rabbits to whales to eat the meat, and that wild game meat is a large part of what they live on every year.
Therefore, the normal "sporting" rules of hunting such as fair chase, where an animal has a good opportunity to escape the hunter, or not using baits to attract animals, such that the hunter must go find the game animal, do not apply to Native Americans hunting for food purposes. Boone & Crockett trophy rules for hunting do not apply when empty bellies await the hunter's return. The goal is to fill a larder with meat, not enjoy a day outdoors or bring home trophy antlers.
Of course, the Native Americans are supposed to follow good game management practices to prevent underpopulation of their game. There are frequent disagreements between the locals and the federal or state game officials over how best to accomplish this. Usually, the problem gets attention when other hunters notice that the rules the Native Americans follow are different that those the other hunters have to follow. Such is life in a multicultural society where treaties apply to some people, and not the rest.
Whale hunts from pack ice are also amazing.
Gov. Mike Dunleavy and Alaska’s congressional delegation supported the changes, saying the new rule reaffirms Alaska’s authority over wildlife management in the preserves.
“With the release of this final rule, we are eliminating a wrongful federal seizure of Alaska’s authority," U.S. Rep. Don Young said in the statement sent by the park service.
AK Fish and Game does a very good job of managing wildlife resources. Tourism is a huge part of the economy here. Trump is just letting the state manage it's resources as they see fit, and as provided for in the Statehood Act, after Obama created illegal restrictions.
In otherwords, Trump is fixing yet another Obama fuckup.
I lived in Alaska for ten years. It is a favorite thing for Greenpeace dorks from the east coast and California to impose their version of conservation on the people of Alaska without knowing anything at all about the place. For one thing, it's inconceivably huge, so huge that the presence of humans is nearly negligible. Second, it is not benign. If you think of wilderness as Yosemite Valley or West Yellowstone, you will be shocked to learn that the place is trying to kill you in numerous ways. Third, Alaskan hunters do not hunt to hang stuffed heads on the wall, they hunt to feed their families. Alaska still harbors a subsistence culture where hunting provides the main, if not only, source of dietary protein.
Here's a small example of the realities of Alaska game management. The southeast panhandle is home to the Sitka blacktail deer. There is basically no limit to the number of deer that are taken in the annual harvest. Hunters can get up to six tags. When those are filled, they can apply for six more. Does may be taken as well as bucks. When I, a transplanted Californian, asked an ADF&G guy how this could be, he replied that the limiting factor in deer populations was feed scarcity during winter. Deer not taken by hunters would have starved to death anyway. Nature is hard.
“Better they should riot, break windows, and loot shops.”
You must be speaking for yourself, because you aren’t speaking for me.
“White chick in Wisconsin who is cool with the burning of cities disapproves of native americans hunting large game in desolate regions of Alaska because.”
Drago, again putting words he hopes liberals say in their mouths. Truth be damned, that won’t stop Drago. Drago has no qualms about standing upon the corpse of David Dorn to spread lies and incite commenters here.
Yancey Ward - -
Without headers your spreadsheet is pretty hard to use.
I know ashley judd had a conniption over a local edict in alaska back in 2008
Federalism issues for the Leftist Collectivists:
1. Lockdowns that prevent economic activity by dis-preferred businesses,
2. Riots in American cities, including the federal District of Columbia,
3. Marijuana laws,
4. Immigration laws,
5. Disease management,
6. Who the fuck knows what will be next?
Not federalism issues according to Leftist Collectivists:
1. Neighborhood growth,
2. Hunting,
3. Medical insurance payments,
4. Disease management,
5. Who the fuck knows what will be next?
Can somebody set up a scorecard?
From the headline, I thought it was about trying to bring out covidiot mothers.
When I first saw the headline about luring the mothers out with donuts I thought it had something to do with the technique employed by predators to kidnap the children of trump supporters
Another one for the morons (looking at you Ingas) who bought the WAPO article hook line and sinker without even bothering to look up some basic facts.
A major pet peeve Alaskans have is the 'protect ANWR' ads that used to run on TV incessantly. All pictures of the beautiful Brooks Range. In fact though, ANWR includes a miniscule proportion of the northern slopes of the Brooks. The vast majority of it is barren tundra filled with swarming hordes of mosquitoes. (I never once saw a picture of that in the ads).
Piss us off and we'll divide Alaska in half and make Texas the third largest state.
johns,
Yes, we do eat bear. Thanks for asking.
Tractors give farmers an unfair advantage
So, defund the police but not the park rangers?
Who knew that the Yogi Bear cartoons of Anne's youth would retain such relevance? No donuts in your pic-a-nic basket!
Ken B: "WaPo got Turley in a tizzy about it today, talking terrible Trump transgressions. I like and admire Turley but it wasn’t his best moment."
Turley knows he is on the precipice of complete Cancellation so he has to throw some red meat at Howard's Heroes in the hopes that they will eat him last.
AllenS
Fish and game guy sent undercover to investigate a guy catching an inordinate number of fish. Every time. The agent finagled an invitation to fish with the suspect. Once in the middle of the lake the suspect reaches into his bag and pulls out a stick of dynamite lights it and tosses it into the lake and a wad of fish float up. The agent pulls out his badge, identifies himself sand tells the guy he is under arrest. The suspect smiles, reaches in his bag pulls out a stick of dynamite lights it and hands it to the agent. Do you want to talk, he asks, or fish?
Why does Inga want to discriminate against native alaskans? Why does she hate the disadvantaged?
That's unfair.
Inga doesn't hate native Alaskans. She just wants to reform them. As a perfect person, Inga is uniquely qualified to rearrange the lifestyles of those animal-abusing savages.
Trump, on the other hand, wants to encourage their filthy ways because he wants bear and wolf populations to crash to near-extinction, just like the state of affairs in the New World before 1492. By golly, if it were for Columbus, the natives would have exterminated the bears and wolves. Lucky for them Inga's forebears (ha!) intervened and killed those pesky redskins before they could further rape Mother Earth.
More Context = White Privilege:
Dynamite in the NorCal Klamath. Not sure if it was legal back then but am sure the Indians that did it were hungry.
Can they use pick-a-nick baskets?
Amid all the manufactured furor, all I really needed to know was,"The changes, published in the federal register on Tuesday, roll back 2015 prohibitions adopted under President Barack Obama."
Back in 2015, I don't remember any news on this and if it was such a pressing issue, why wasn't the press doing fawning think-pieces on it? It was a minor (if disliked by the people it affected) change then and is therefore a minor change now.
BTW, Yancey Ward, thanks for your work on the Covid-19 spreadsheet. I hereby give you permission to bypass Oregon in your individual state data- as has the virus.
Inga, if Mr. Trump's legacy is giving states more discretion vis-Ã -vis the federal government (i.e. support of Federalism), why is that necessarily bad? One doesn't have to agree with all of his administration's policies, but you seem to reflexively dismiss and discredit anything that comes out.
The people who just yesterday were telling us that Defund the Police really means reorganizing things so that people of color have fewer interactions with armed law enforcement will now tell us why Trump's move here is bad, and they won't see the irony at all.
Robt C said...
Yancey Ward - -
Without headers your spreadsheet is pretty hard to use.
use Headers for cal. al, az.
I don't know anything about Alaska or bear hunting in Alaska, but I do know about bear hunting in Maine.
In Maine, bears can lawfully be hunted in two ways, baiting, or with dogs. Most are hunted with baits (old donuts are very effective baits). About 300 bears are killed every year. Most of the hunters are locals, it's not a big money out-of-state tourist thing.
The Maine bear hunt is controversial. The Maine state biologists are in favor of it because it keeps the bear population down to manageable levels. One consequence is that Maine does not have bears scrounging through peoples' garbage cans in rural and suburban towns, which happens frequently in places like New Jersey where there is no bear population control. But a lot of Mainers just don't like it, maybe because it seems unsporting. It last came up in a referendum a few years ago and the public voted to keep the hunt.
Yes, doughnuts can also be used to attract security protection after all the PD's are disbanded.
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...
Worms give fishermen an unfair advantage.
Yes! yes they DO!
rule #1 Trout love worms
rule #2 You should be a good enough fisher, to not need worms
Lefties used to care about Native Americans but now with spicy Latinxy Winkies, transgenders etc., they are too boring.
ADDED: Speaking of ethnicity and doughnuts
"Puerto Ricans. Always made the best infantrymen."
Robt C,
The individual states in the other sheets have static headers- I didn't put one in the top sheet because I only used it for data retrieval, but I added one just now so you know what the columns are.
Tomcc: "Inga, if Mr. Trump's legacy is giving states more discretion vis-Ã -vis the federal government (i.e. support of Federalism), why is that necessarily bad? One doesn't have to agree with all of his administration's policies, but you seem to reflexively dismiss and discredit anything that comes out."
Yesterday's lefty/dem/LLR-lefty talking point: OMG Trump is acting like a dictator who can control all the states!!
Today's lefty/dem/LLR-lefty talking point: OMG Trump is refusing to act like a dictator who can control all the states!!
I've seen hunters in Maine use sweets as a lure for bears. Doesn't seem right to me, but I don't live there.
Yes, we do eat bear. Thanks for asking.
Thank you. I didn't know. When you say "we" do you mean we bear hunters or we Alaskans?
One more. There is zero chance the Alaska Fish and Game will let their bear population be decimated. It's pretty common for a hunter from the lower 48 (or outside as we call it) to drop $20K into the local economy. Do the math. Same with fishing. Same with commercial fishing. Although it it is an important part of the economy, AFG makes sure there is enough escapement to provide for both future runs and keep the tourists coming.
Speaking of the Alaskan economy, Alaska tourism is near zilch this year due to CV19. North Slope oil is down to a trickle. Top two sources of revenue are shit.
Didn’t Joe Rogan in one of the clips talk about how good bear is to eat?
IIRC especially berry fed bears.
Early European explorer journals, in America, frequently commented on how delicious bear meat was, especially bear fat. It was reportedly good to eat and good for the skin.
I have a cookbook called Slow Food that includes the recipe "Bear Stew for 4,000." The ingredients are
200 pounds of bear meet
400 pounds of beef chuck
200 pounds of carrots, peeled
1 crate of celery
225 pounds of yellow onions, peeled
550 pounds of boiling potatoes, peeled and cut in quarters
2 crates of cabbage, sliced into wedges
Salt and freshly ground pepper to taste
20 gallons "spice pot"—parsley, oregano, cloves, garlic —you name it
Makes about 550 gallons
There is also a recipe for "Bear Stew for 6 or 8," which is considerably more refined.
The video of the soldier talking about the good treatment he and his comrades got from the Jews reminded me. In 1969 I was in Army Basic at Fort Blis TX. Apparently the Army was short of Jewish Chaplains, so on Friday afternoons the Jewish trainees (very few; mostly reservists) were released to go to the homes of Jewish families in El Paso until sunset Saturday. Us Christians had to work all day Saturday and then on Sunday got to go to "Christians" services and hear some Baptist Chaplain talk about how he always carried a sidearm in 'Nam in case he ran into a Viet Cong (or "Gook"). I don't know why I didn't convert right then.
So, basically we are back in the dark ages now.
But if we are in the dark ages, why do bears get doughnuts? Doesn't seem fair.
Thanks Yancy for the CA Tab! I have not been keeping up.
Death rate is still high, relatively speaking for CA. LA seems to be a hotspot, I'm not sure why.
Positive Rate is very low, which is great.
About 5% of the population has been tested.
Using the site you mentioned, R is .98
https://rt.live/
Looking at a County Level in CA, not pretty for LA...
https://covid19.biglocalnews.org/county-maps/index.html#/county/06037
Hi Inga,
Do you live in Alaska? No?
Then you have NO business deciding how Alaskan's will hunt.
As head of the Federal Government, not the State government of Alaska, President Obama had NO business deciding how people in Alaska will hunt.
We need a new Constitutional Amendment. it should say "the Federal government may no own or control more than 5% of the land, land area, and / or mineral rights of any State in the Union."
In the meantime, you lefties need to stop being such tyrants.
MYOB
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