May 3, 2020

"'The virus is a wake-up call,' one of my doctor friends says, standing in a white bikini on a dock by the Oslo fjord."

"It is an early spring morning and we have just been for a dip in the sea, which is 4º C (about 40º F). Now we let wind and a bleak sun dry us off. 'We have messed up nature,' she goes on. 'We have exploited it in places we shouldn’t have been.' The ice-bathing club meets more often. We need the rush, the extracted inner heat that will keep us warm for the rest of the day. We strictly observe the recommendations of the Norwegian Institute of Public Health: no more than five in a group. Only meet outdoors. Stay one meter apart. 'We are all going to get it one way or another,' says Joanna, a cancer surgeon.... 'It is only a question of time. The strategy of the government is clear: Norway wants to curb the spread so that not too many get ill at the same time.'... A friend on my street is afraid of everything. Trampolines. Carbs. Falling stocks. Bank collapse. Losing control. But nothing scares him more than the Swedish model. Sweden is the only country in Europe to have imposed no rules of restriction. The schools are open, bars serve whatever you like, even fitness centers are functioning. With a population twice as big as Norway’s, the country’s death toll by end of April was more than ten times higher. Sweden has knowingly let a large part of the population get infected in order to achieve herd immunity before a vaccine is ready. 'What do you prefer? A country run by a government that listens to medical advice and takes the responsibility?' my anxious neighbor asks. 'Or the Swedish system of experts battling one another on thin ice?... What is solidarity?... It is for us who are privileged to observe the rules. What’s so bad about lounging on the sofa for a few weeks, anyway? Can’t we just be a bit careful? When did that ever hurt?'"

From "A Virus in the Neighborhood" by Åsne Seierstad (New York Review of Books).

54 comments:

Mr. Forward said...

Let's hope the sofa is paid for.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Expert textpert choking smoker don't you think the joker laughs at you.

brylun said...

I'm talking to my doctor tomorrow about getting an antibody test, and if I test positive, I think I'll book a trip to Sweden. If I test negative, I'll have to be holed up until the vaccine comes.

MikeR said...

Actually, it's quite possible that Sweden made a great choice. We'll see.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/01/as_we_mull_leaving_lockdown_is_sweden_model_the_way_forward_143093.html

Lloyd W. Robertson said...

"A friend on my street is afraid of everything. Trampolines. Carbs. Falling stocks. Bank collapse. Losing control. But nothing scares him more than the Swedish model."

Sybil on her mother's phobias in Fawlty Towers: "Sybil describes her [mother] as a woman full of 'death force,' a 'worrier' with countless irrational 'morbid fears': 'Vans, ... rats, doorknobs, birds, heights, open spaces, confined spaces, ... footballs, bicycles, cows, ... men following her ... and death.'" On "spaces" she says "It's not easy to get the spaces right, really."

I'm convinced that part of what is going on is simply that the boomers are old, they have pretty much always got what they wanted, and now they have the fears of old people. They are afraid of the weather, germs, loud children, groups of teenagers, along with the things listed by Sybil. This takes the precautionary principle very literally. Don't have children. If you do, keep them in a padded room with no dangerous paints or chemicals. The only exercise some kind of padded hamster's wheel. Summer camp is a fantasy cooked up by psychopaths, etc.

MikeR said...

https://twitter.com/naval/status/1255776689381994497

brylun said...

There are flights from JFK to Stockholm, departing on May 23, through Reykjavik, Iceland and Belgrade, Serbia.

Temujin said...

The Sweden model is still playing out. Very possible that they will reach herd immunity and move on while the rest of the world is still sitting on their sofas reading articles about how they made the right choice, and hoping their government checks don't stop, and somehow, Netflix can come up with a few new good series.

As for their livelihoods? Done. Gone. Kaput.

Rick.T. said...

‘It is only a question of time. The strategy of the government is clear: Norway wants to curb the spread so that not too many get ill at the same time.'...
————————

Yeah we heard that before! Now, not so much.

Rick.T. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fritz said...

'We are all going to get it one way or another,' says Joanna, a cancer surgeon.... 'It is only a question of time.'

When Dr. Birx and Fauci sold us on the idea of "social distancing", this was the idea, to avoid overwhelming the health care system with a huge single spike in cases as the virus ran rampant. This has succeeded only too well, as witness New York; in fact, the rest of the health care system is withering from disuse, along with much of our economy. Is the new plan to try to avoid as much WuFlu as possible until a vaccine can be developed, and manufactured in the required numbers? If so, they should tell us, and let us decide whether or not we agree.

I'd love to see the vaccine, but I don't trust the Feds to deliver it swiftly, it's not their nature.

mandrewa said...

I will make a prediction: If we compare Sweden's excess deaths to Norway's excess deaths at the end of the year, or in other words for the year of 2020, there will be essentially no difference.

(And by essentially no difference I mean that if we go back the last 20 years before 2020 and look at the average variation in excess deaths between the two countries then the difference in excess deaths will be no greater than one standard deviation from the average variation. Or to say it in more subjective way, if we graph the excess death variation between the two countries over the last 21 years, Sweden will not stand out for 2020.)

mandrewa said...

Also there is another aspect to the Sweden versus Norway story that the media I'll bet has heard but is not telling the public.

Swedish muslims, immigrants from the Middle East, are disproportionately dying from the coronavirus. And I imagine the Swedish government is also trying to hide that, and I wonder if they are even publishing counts distinguished by ethnicity so we are probably left just guessing just how disproportionate the impact is, but just maybe it's quite big.

BUMBLE BEE said...

As a boomer who is in the kill zone medically, the only thing I fear is Lloyd's "convictions" of who we boomers are. Get out more dude, you're in a rut.

Unknown said...

Have we started hauling those Spring breakers to the morgue? No?

JML said...

I ws very disappointing that there were no photos of Swedish models in bikinis at the link provided.

Fernandinande said...

'The virus is a wake-up call,'

No it's not.

'We have messed up nature,'We have exploited it in places we shouldn’t have been.'

No we haven't.

We strictly observe the recommendations of the Norwegian Institute of Public Health

Doesn't everybody?!?

But nothing scares him more than the Swedish model.

Some of those busty, leggy blondes can be scary in a certain way.

'A country run by a government that listens to medical advice and takes the responsibility?'

That sounds fine for sheep or cattle or Norwegians, but not for actual humans.

Rory said...

"I'd love to see the vaccine, but I don't trust the Feds to deliver it swiftly, it's not their nature."

This would be the campaign issue of all time: "We have five very promising vaccines. My opponent says we have have to wait a year for more testing, I'll release them to your doctor and you on Inauguration Day."

brylun said...

Swedish children's book says 'Grandpa has 4 wives'

Tommy Duncan said...

"'We are all going to get it one way or another,' says Joanna, a cancer surgeon.... 'It is only a question of time."

Very few in the USA are willing to acknowledge that we will all eventually be infected. We pretend that "flattening the curve" means we don't get sick. The reality is that we should be doing whatever we can to enhance our immune systems and hope for mild symptoms when the inevitable occurs.

The "shelter in place" guidelines are just government covering its ass and attempting to appear useful. We'll eventually realize that the actions of government simply prolonged the inevitable infections and greatly damaged the economy. Those vulnerable to COVID-19 are also vulnerable to influenza and pneumonia. Being old and compromised sucks.

Eleanor said...

Lloyd, Most Boomers are laughing at all of you putting your socks over your faces to go to Costco. We've lived through polio, measles, and mumps epidemics. We understand quarantine means you isolate the sick, not imprison the well. We would prefer you not put our parents into nursing homes with people who have tested positive for the virus. Few of us live there ourselves. Our grandchildren are afraid they're going to kill us, but we're not. We'd like to go to their graduations, but you've cancelled them. If you took a poll of people who are really the Boomers and not the people you imagine us to be, you'd find we're not any more worried about the virus than the rest of the population, maybe even less.

JML said...

“There is no doubt in my mind, that when we come to look back on this, the damage done by lockdown will exceed any saving of lives by a huge factor.

https://unherd.com/thepost/nobel-prize-winning-scientist-the-covid-19-epidemic-was-never-exponential/

Mark said...

'We have messed up nature,' she goes on. 'We have exploited it in places we shouldn’t have been.'

If she means by manipulating contagions in a lab, she has a point.

If she means that we haven't been nice enough to the Earth, then she's another anti-science nut who claims that she is acting in the name of science in choosing artificial shutdown over letting nature take its course (Sweden).

Mark said...

'We are all going to get it one way or another,' says Joanna

Which is what a lot of people HERE said, even some of the anti-lockdown people, and that is what fueled the "two million deaths" hysteria.

I'm betting that we are NOT ALL going to get it any more than we all get the flu each year or we all get a cold each year.

Lucien said...

Sweden is its own “laboratory” just like states can be under federalism. The authoritarians are terrified that the early opening states will succeed, and so want to mau-mau their governors into depriving more people of more liberty for longer. They print headlines like “as death toll rises toward “grim milestone du jour” some states try to reopen.”
Of course the death toll is rising, because if people started coming back from the dead, the story would be “Trump causes zombie apocalypse “!

Mark said...

If we ALL get it in the U.S., then that's about a million dead, assuming the very low death rate of 0.3 percent.

William said...

The Hapsburg Empire has come in for some unfair criticism, but no matter what you say, they really kept the handle on coronavirus. The Austro-Hungarians have a coronavirus infection rate to die for. Perhaps some day the Scandinavians will appreciate the prophylactic powers of paprika.

Wince said...

Mark said...
I'm betting that we are NOT ALL going to get it any more than we all get the flu each year or we all get a cold each year.

Yet, we are likely to be all exposed to it, eventually.

Aside from "flattening the curve", question is whether the lockdown and social distancing help lessen that initial viral load enabling more of us to fight it, and how many people that helps as time goes on and hopefully herd immunity builds.

And the point at which that "treatment" becomes worse than the disease.

Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Howard said...

Taking cold baths is a good hedge against the bug. See wim Hof The Iceman

Mark said...

I dispute that we are all going to even be merely exposed to it. At some point, it simply has nowhere to go, there are no more roads from there to here.

LA_Bob said...

Eleanor, yes, it is a strange world we inhabit now, in which up is down and freedom is slavery and the healthy are quarantined "for their own protection". Equally strange (and completely insane) is emptying the prisons to save the prisoners from COVID yet filling the nursing homes and killing the occupants from the same disease.

Another irony is that while Deborah Birx is a Boomer, Anthony Fauci is not (born 1940).

Leland said...

Ask yourself; if you knew someone as paranoid as this, "afraid of everything. Trampolines. Carbs. Falling stocks. Bank collapse. Losing control.", would you take their advice?

Phil 314 said...

“What’s so bad about lounging on the sofa for a few weeks, anyway?”

Because there’s work to be done!

Lewis Wetzel said...

"Sweden has knowingly let a large part of the population get infected in order to achieve herd immunity before a vaccine is ready."
In the same way the US knowingly allows 45,000 people to commit suicide each year by not putting every citizen in a straightjacket.
It is called freedom, people.

I'm Not Sure said...

"What’s so bad about lounging on the sofa for a few weeks, anyway? Can’t we just be a bit careful? When did that ever hurt?"

Didn't read the article, but I do have to wonder if the neighbor shared their ("him" or "her"? if I had to guess, I'd go with "her") thoughts about the people who supply food and power (among other things) lounging at home for a few weeks, too. I suspect that would probably not be quite as acceptable to the neighbor. Getting back to what's important, though- as long as the neighbor's needs are taken care of, it's all good. Right?

Kai Akker said...

"Don't have children. If you do, keep them in a padded room with no dangerous paints or chemicals. The only exercise some kind of padded hamster's wheel. Summer camp is a fantasy cooked up by psychopaths, etc."

Right! It's all in our weak sick minds. Pathetic us. Or: it's a cross between SARS and HIV, manufactured by scientists in Communist China with inadequate security and leaked into the rest of the world with apparently malicious intent.

hstad said...

LOL, reading this piece reminds me how bankrupt the entire Scandinavian culture has become - snowflakes all. Their ancestors (Vikings) must be turning over in their graves!

YoungHegelian said...

'We have messed up nature,' she goes on. 'We have exploited it in places we shouldn’t have been.'

Whatever may be the truth of the rest of what this woman says, this is clearly false.

All throughout history, there have been plagues. As long as mankind has kept records, there have been plagues. Thanks to modern medicine, since the Spanish Flu, the First World has been spared the scourge of plague, and so generations now have no memory of what a plague can do. COVID is, by historical standards, a fairly mild plague. I know, that's cold comfort if it took someone you love.

And, by the way, many of those plagues in days of yore came out of China.

n.n said...

They latest guidance from Wuhan is to maintain 3 m separation, 6 if you follow the precautionary principle.

narciso said...

https://mobile.twitter.com/wheelertweets/status/1256765889015398401

Mark said...

They latest guidance from Wuhan is to maintain 3 m separation, 6 if you follow the precautionary principle.

Just to clarify -- 3 meters? As in 9 feet? And even up to 18 feet?

320Busdriver said...

I wonder if anyone else notices the stark differences among friends and family and their levels of fear, compliance, and propensity to question authority on these matters. For me this has been one of the more surprising facets of this episode.

walter said...

Impact of COVID-19 on economy in Norway 2020
Published by Agnete Lundetræ Jürgensen, Apr 28, 2020
Due to the coronavirus outbreak, on April 1 to 2, nearly 84 percent of Norwegian companies stated that they have experienced lower demand and cancellations. This is the result of survey among member companies of the Confederation of Norwegian Enterprise (NHO), conducted fortnightly. On April 17, 22 percent of the surveyed enterprises experienced a substantial risk of bankruptcy and 26 percent stated that they lack money to pay bills that are due shortly.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105256/impact-of-covid-19-on-economy-in-norway/

Big Mike said...

What’s so bad about lounging on the sofa for a few weeks, anyway?

As long as you aren’t doing anything productive anyway (e.g., you're a writer) nothing’s wrong with it at all.

Can’t we just be a bit careful?

Why can’t you be careful while still going about your daily business? In terms of my health I am at greater risk from not getting to a gym than I am from COVID-19, provided I carefully wipe down the equipment before I use it (and afterwards, too, as a favor to the other gym users).

Maybe instead of sitting back and pontificating, your government could make and distribute washable, reusable N95 masks? Just asking.

When did that ever hurt?

Ask the people who are contemplating suicide because everything they ever worked for has been eradicated in the name of social distancing and “solidarity.”

Easy to see why the most famous Norwegian of modern times is Vidkun Quisling.

Big Mike said...

Just to clarify -- 3 meters? As in 9 feet?

@Mark, closer to 10, actually.

Richard Dolan said...

"What’s so bad about lounging on the sofa for a few weeks, anyway?"

That stops working when the sofa gets repossessed for non-payment.

mikee said...

Here in Texas during the pandemic I can grab takeout from my favorite restaurant, Rio Grande, and get a to-go Marguerita in a styrofoam cup with it. With a straw, for the drive home. I like the Presidente frozen, with an extra shot of Cointeau floating on top.

Under legislation preceding the pandemic, that drink was a big no-no, an open alcoholic beveridge in a vehicle. Who woulda thunk a governor could rescind legislation by emergency declaration? Yay!

Sebastian said...

'We are all going to get it one way or another,' says Joanna, a cancer surgeon.... 'It is only a question of time. The strategy of the government is clear: Norway wants to curb the spread so that not too many get ill at the same time.'"

But since no healthy person under 50 is at any unusual risk, the getting ill part only applies to specific groups -- the old, sick, and/or obese.

"Sweden has knowingly let a large part of the population get infected in order to achieve herd immunity"

Exactly. So what? "We are all going to get it." Or at least most of us. As we should, to protect the most vulnerable.

"A country run by a government that listens to medical advice and takes the responsibility?'"

Like, what "advice"?

"'Or the Swedish system of experts battling one another on thin ice?"

The thin ice of doing we should do, in light of how every epidemic evolves?

"It is for us who are privileged to observe the rules."

The real privilege lies in imposing rules that have no health benefits but severely hurt a bunch of underprivileged people who are at no personal risk in the first place--and to to have the gall to say it's for their own benefit.

stevew said...

Learned today that my only remaining aunt likely has the virus and is quite ill. She has been hospitalized, in one of those euphemistically named rehabilitation facilities, for a few years with advanced Parkinsons. Her husband, my uncle (my father's brother), has been prohibited from visiting her for the past seven weeks. He is not allowed to go see her even though she may be near death and he would be the only one taking a risk by visiting. Throughout my life they were among the most loving and dedicated couples I've known. It is obscene that the state is preventing them from being together at the end of her life.

Michael said...

Young Hegelian
And in those olden plagues the quarantined were the infected.

Mom said...

The humble-bragging! Oh my goodness. She has to make sure we know that her friends just happen to be the state librarian of Norway or diplomats to Iran or the biggest publishers in Scandinavia or surgeons in Chanel bikinis (mentioned twice, for goodness sake!). She spends at most two sentences on those who are genuinely in trouble, out of jobs or have to work in public in full risk of getting sick, and before she more than barely notices them she's back to her focus on her own affluent, protected friends who are Really Really Anxious or who have to replace their lawns and buy private gyms at lord knows what expense while fulminating about how much they're learning about themselves while cooped up alone with their money. One of them wonders for a few seconds about whether her personal trainer might be experiencing any decrease in her salary, but it never seems to occur to her that she could do something substantive to help him out by calling him up to see if he'd like to be hired to train her on that new equipment lying around in her yard, at an appropriate social distance of course. And then she wonders if "we" -- this clueless privileged elite? -- should enforce some sort of greener New Deal when this is over, without ever sparing a thought for the harm being done to those who aren't the elite and don't have the means to float through this imagining that they're coming to some great new knowledge about themselves and Nature. I have never seen such a pure example of smug self-involved oblivious cluelessness. Do they give prizes for lack of self-awareness?

Maillard Reactionary said...

I am not pining for this particular fjord.

Joe said...

Nature is, at best, indifferent and at worst, is actively trying to kill us.