May 18, 2020

"National crises often lead to more centralized power. But everything about this one is unusual..."

"... including President Trump’s decision to let state and local authorities make nearly all decisions about daily life and business activity. Washington provides expert advice, policy guidance, backup supplies, emergency personnel, and massive funding. It has not issued national mandates. Trump has refused to shift more power to the central government.... Trump’s reliance on federalism... caught the left by surprise. When the crisis began, liberals voiced their long-standing criticism: Trump is a wannabe dictator who will use this crisis as an excuse to exercise authoritarian power. He hasn’t.... Government leaders [have generally tended to] suspend the rules so they can act swiftly and decisively... That’s why Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, Woodrow Wilson the First Amendment, and Franklin Roosevelt the basic rights of Japanese Americans.... State and local officials already face mounting public resistance... Federal courts are taking hard looks at restrictions on speech, worship, protest, and business operations. They are skeptical of executive orders that override statutory laws. Judges are unlikely to waive constitutional protections for any extended period, if that...."

Writes emeritus polisci prof Charles Lipson.

So the "government leaders" who are targets of complaints about authoritarian power are the state and local officials, not Trump. Trump relied on the American tradition of federalism — a high ideal — to locate the criticism away from himself. This forces the anti-Trumpsters — the left — to choose between criticizing him for not being enough of a dictator or to shift to criticize the state and local officials — many of whom are on the left — for excessive authoritarianism. Or they could just be incoherent on the subject of authoritarianism and — if Trump takes control — call him a despicable dictator and — if state and local officials exercise control — declare that it's just lovely to be so effectively and masterfully controlled — thank you, Governor, thank you, mayor, and curse you horrible fellow citizens who don't follow orders.

108 comments:

David Begley said...

I think Trump is just following the law and using good common sense. Cherry County Nebraska has about 20,000 residents in an area larger than the state of Connecticut.

Masscon said...

Tell me again that Trump doesn't know what he's doing.

David Begley said...

Correction. Cherry county has 5,713 residents.

David Begley said...

Hey, I can be a covid19 modeler now. Only off by 4x.

Bob Boyd said...

"Have you seen a crowd of people? Great! I'm their leader. Which way did they go?"

Carol said...

I've been saying that all along - Federalism! Isn't it great? And Trump conveniently used that to shift the burden to governors, who should know better what their own states need anyway. I think Bullock is handling it well here in Montana.

But now it's, Trump didn't do enough!1! From the usual suspects.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

.Or they could just be incoherent on the subject of authoritarianism and — if Trump takes control — call him a despicable dictator and — if state and local officials exercise control — declare that it's just lovely to be so effectively and masterfully controlled — thank you, Governor, thank you, mayor, and curse you horrible fellow citizens who don't follow orders.

Which is exactly what is happening.

Trump! Outfoxes them again. Trump is like B'rer Rabbit. He is a trickster who succeeds by his wits rather than by brawn, provoking authority figures and bending social mores as he sees fit. Don't throw me into that Briar Patch!!!

Many Democrats who also have jobs that they need to go to, have bills to pay, kids stuck at home... or wish to take a walk on the beach are waking up to the true nature of those Democrats that they elected. I know that Newsome has lost the Surfer Dude Vote.

Dust Bunny Queen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
WhoKnew said...

Or they could just be incoherent on the subject of authoritarianism and — if Trump takes control — call him a despicable dictator and — if state and local officials exercise control — declare that it's just lovely to be so effectively and masterfully controlled — thank you, Governor, thank you, mayor, and curse you horrible fellow citizens who don't follow orders. " I think you just perfectly described the liberals actual public position. Except they haven't stopped calling Trump a dictator, even while criticizing him for not being dictatorial enough. It's a floor wax and a desert topping!

Wince said...

"Given 'em enough rope... they will hang themselves."

Blue state authoritarians are showing meager public health benefits and bankrupting their states, while Red states are starting to move on.

The Democrats could face some serious consequences in November.

A serious concern is the possibility that Democrats, perhaps in league with the Chinese, could send out "spreaders" to Red states.

Obviously, it's time open a counter intelligence investigation and start tapping phones.

stever said...

Trump has exposed this as a political event. The Dem governors want the economy to crash to beat Trump, just like they point out death statistics as his fault.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Yes the strategy of having the state and federal governments all bidding up the price of PPE was brilliant. Indescribably brilliant. Brilliance upon brilliance. We are so lucky to have a strategic genius like Trump and his truly brilliant son-in-law (did you know he went to Harvard?) as our leaders.

wendybar said...

Trump is doing what all of us WISHED other Presidents would do...give the power back to the states. Yet he is STILL getting blamed for the Governors decisions.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

curse you horrible fellow citizens who don't follow orders

I think that the people issuing these edicts don't understand that you need the governed to consent to being governed. Sometimes, in some places, that consent was forced, such as in the US in the early 21st century where public shaming was used to silence people and force compliance with a spiraling number of absurdities. But, in order for that to work the people being shamed have to have something to lose. The edicts are putting some of the most industrious and entrepreneurial citizens in a position where if they don't resist the government they are going to lose everything. Legitimate complaints are being met with the equivalent of "shut your yap you stupid peasant." This cannot last.

Howard said...

So that's the new Trump standard of care for leadership... "outfoxing" political opponents in a national crisis. It's like you people don't even listen to yourselves.

RK said...

So this is what Obama meant about 'lack of leadership'.

Temujin said...

Trump relied on the American tradition of federalism — a high ideal — to locate the criticism away from himself.

At a quick look, as this was beginning, you could see that there was mass hysteria building, yet the numbers coming in from state to state and between regions in the same state were very different. The center of our media and viruses was in the same location, New York (coincidence?...Hmmm.) Anyway- it would have been the exact wrong move to conduct a one-size-fits-all top down approach from the Federal Government. The best way to target this was per the states, and the states then working with their counties and municipalities to coordinate efforts and direct resources. Some states did this better than others.

With this in place, the Federal Government could help by looking at the needs as they happened and worked to source, back-up, and resupply those areas most in need. As well as removing blocks from the CDC and FDA to allow for more and better tests and sped up work on vaccines. This is actually what ended up happening. And as it turned- it worked very well. No accounting for Gov. Cuomo's bizarre approach to nursing homes as incubators for the virus. Take that out of the equation and take New York out of the equation, the US did very well.

What we do from here remains to be seen.

Lance said...

That’s why Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, Woodrow Wilson the First Amendment, and Franklin Roosevelt the basic rights of Japanese Americans

These are cliché examples. I get that the author just wants to quickly illustrate his point about rights being trampled in an emergency, but every author does this, and glides over all the other rights that get trampled.

roesch/voltaire said...

The latest blame game from the WH includes the CDC and fat people and of course our inadequate for profit health care system, but never the Dump who seems the center of chaos.

JAORE said...

"When the crisis began, liberals voiced their long-standing criticism: Trump is a wannabe dictator who will use this crisis as an excuse to exercise authoritarian power. He hasn’t.... "

Although proven wrong, none would ever mention that. Nor would it cause the slightest of hesitation before the next unfounded criticism would be declared.

Laslo Spatula said...

The Left doesn't understand Trump: given the choice and the potential, he doesn't want to BE a Nazi.

They can't process that, no matter what color pill they take: the idea of leaving such an opportunity on the table is utterly alien to them.

I am Laslo.

I'm Not Sure said...

"Trump relied on the American tradition of federalism — a high ideal — to locate the criticism away from himself."

To locate the criticism away from himself? That's the reason? How do you know? Did he tell you that, or what?

Bilwick said...

" . . . thank you, Governor, thank you, mayor, and curse you horrible fellow citizens who don't follow orders."

Isn't that pretty much the mantra of "liberals," "progressives" and State fellators since time immemorial?

Tom T. said...

Meanwhile, Trump's approval rating are riding high.

Andrew said...

I admit, Trump played this masterfully. I thought at first he was handling this poorly, and damaging his chances for reelection. But he will come out of this ahead. He never ceases to amaze.

narciso said...


Lord acton said it best


https://mobile.twitter.com/vickimckenna/status/1262374873168596992?s=21

TreeJoe said...

Can we all just take a moment to admire the following: Trump, TRUMP, has stayed truer to the constitution and intent of our country's founders than either Democratic or Republican Presidents have in....well I'll just say a century.

Lucid-Ideas said...

I don't see Trump's actions as being outside an acceptable response to the crisis, as in letting the states have more of a handle on the response.

Isn't that what the constitution says? Those powers not explicitly federal shall be the purview of the states?

mandrewa said...

Aside from being very clever politically, this was exactly how things were supposed to work. This is the arrangement the Constitution sets up. This is what the authors of the Constitution intended. On everything except for those limited roles and powers specifically listed in the Constitution, the states are supposed to have the power, not the federal government.

It's not an exaggeration to say that the whole point of the Constitution, the main reason for writing it, was to prevent an all-powerful central government.

Centralizers have largely undone this by playing games with what words mean and reinterpreting the Constitution to mean what they want it to mean.

Freder Frederson said...

Trump! Outfoxes them again.

I just love how you twist incompetence into some grand design. Trump thinks he can take credit for successes and blame others for failures. We are not buying it.

We don't want centralized control. What we need is helpful advice and guidance. You can do that without becoming more authoritarian. But Trump has made the situation worse by competing with the states for supplies. The CDC wrote a detailed guide for reopening, which Trump (or someone in the Administration) killed. He is using the crisis to illegally fire inspectors general he doesn't like.

Bob Boyd said...

Lipson wrote, [Americans] are wrong to assume the goal of these emergency rules is to grab power.

Are they though? We've seen Progs trying to grab power and reduce individual rights on every front for years and anyone who objects or even points this out is vilified and ridiculed at the very least. We just witnessed a coup attempt against the lawfully elected President of the United States and so far no one has paid any price for it.
Now, all of sudden, we're supposed to have faith that these new powers will not be abused and that they will be quickly relinquished when the crisis passes? Sorry. I'm not so sanguine as the Professor Lipson.
Trust in authorities of both parties is now so low that it is not considered in the slightest unreasonable to wonder if the pandemic response is not primarily purposed to effect the outcome of the election.

Amadeus 48 said...

The media are doing #2 in Illinois and Michigan--thank you wise leaders--curse you "freedom"-loving citizens.

wild chicken said...

At one point Trump said he was in charge and everyone freaked out. But someone smart has his ear..is it Dersh?

I don't think he's a dictator at heart anyway. He's a promoter, a pitchman, trying to make that sale, trying to make everyone happy. Even Nancy and Chuck!

Sebastian said...

"Trump relied on the American tradition of federalism — a high ideal — to locate the criticism away from himself."

You sure about that?

Trump could have just thought 1. based on his observations of federal government bureaucracies and federal officials, that the feds didn't have all the answers, and 2. that this is a big country with different conditions in different places, which call for different solutions.

narciso said...

the bulk of deaths have been occurring at living facilities, under overlords Cuomo, murphy, newsom, whitmer and co, I'm sure I left some out, and yet we have 35 million unemployed, like a toxic placebo,

John Borell said...

Everything about Trump confuses the left.

Given the chance to be authoritarian, he demurred and instead relied on this thing called Federalism.

I feel sorry for everyone on the left who can’t quite figure it out. Trump or Federalism.

traditionalguy said...

The way DJT emerges from every new sneak attack on him is "unprecedented." He seems to have access to all their plans before they do. And like a real wrestler he counters their best move like he knew it was coming next.

Wince said...

Howard said...
So that's the new Trump standard of care for leadership... "outfoxing" political opponents in a national crisis. It's like you people don't even listen to yourselves.

BREAKING: Sometimes doing the right thing is good politics.

You'd think that those with an expansive view of government would believe that.

I suspect your problem is with the inherent wisdom of federalism playing out before our eyes, and consequently Trump not living down to your authoritarian caricature.

Greg Hlatky said...

I just love how you twist incompetence into some grand design.

Deaths per million population

Belgium: 790
Spain: 586
Italy: 532
UK: 510
France: 419
Netherlands: 328

US: 271
US, less greater New York City: 195

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I just love how you twist incompetence into some grand design. Trump thinks he can take credit for successes and blame others for failures. We are not buying it.

So Trump, adhering to the Constitution and not usurping the powers of the States to himself in what would be called a Hitler-like power grab...while holding daily briefings by "experts" in the various fields.... during what is an unprecedented (so they say) event..... and giving detailing a guideline to reopening the country......AND giving the States the power to do what they see fit......is incompetence???.

Be real. You WANTED Trump to be Hitler and he refused. You wanted incompetence and Trump by-passed that pitfall by not being the Dictator you wish he was. Instead many of the Democrat Governors are exposed as actually being Hitler..

mandrewa said...

I forgot to say that quite apart from all of this being in the spirit of the Constitution, this is also a very effective strategy, and maybe the best, for dealing with real world problems.

We are dealing with an unknown. There are still many things we don't understand about this virus. Letting 50 different political leaders (or more) choose how they are going to handle this ensures that different approaches will be tried.

And because of that it will become objectively possible to say that some approaches worked better than others and this will become clearer as time goes on. Now this isn't to deny the dominance of subjective beliefs. I think most people are driven by their subjective beliefs and not reality. They have a great capacity to reinterpret whatever happens to fit what they already believe.

Despite that some people can see reality however imperfectly and the consequences of that objective perception could be our salvation down the road.

madAsHell said...

My governor, Jay "Turn-up-the-stupid" Inslee has used the crisis to hand emergency no-bid contracts to his cousin.

The lockdown continues, but I'm not seeing the clerks at Safeway getting sick.

I'm Not Sure said...

"Letting 50 different political leaders (or more) choose how they are going to handle this ensures that different approaches will be tried.

And because of that it will become objectively possible to say that some approaches worked better than others and this will become clearer as time goes on."


Which is why progressives only want one approach with their "democratic socialism". With nothing to compare it to, how can it be demonstrated to be wrong?

Leland said...

This post is my problem with Matt Taibbi's article that many on the right were praising. Matt calls Trump an authoritarian many times in the article with no evidence. He could be doing so to be acceptable reading material for his leftist media audience, but I have no reason to believe he hasn't retained the same bias from the past (either pro or anti Trump).

The evidence is Trump is not acting authoritarian. He's exercised power he has to fire Comey and renegotiate trade deals, which is authoritarian in so much he was given that authority as the President. But in terms of trampling the rights of citizens, he has only supported the guidelines as developed by the CDC. Either the people, deciding on their own to practice social distance, or the local leadership, using emergency powers to regulate activity, are primarily responsible for the current situation. The exception is Trump's early orders halting travel and trade with China to prevent the spread of the virus to the US.

pacwest said...

I agree. Common sense solutions have been in such short supply of late that they deserve the label "unprecedented".

TrespassersW said...

Trump relied on the American tradition of federalism — a high ideal — to locate the criticism away from himself.

That's a freaking big assumption about his motive, innit? Maybe he relied on federalism because he believes that the best people to be making decisions about a state's problems are the people elected to govern that state.

Bruce Gee said...

Sebastian: ""Trump relied on the American tradition of federalism — a high ideal — to locate the criticism away from himself."

You sure about that?

Trump could have just thought 1. based on his observations of federal government bureaucracies and federal officials, that the feds didn't have all the answers, and 2. that this is a big country with different conditions in different places, which call for different solutions."

You sure about that?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Greg Hlatky said...
Deaths per million population

US: 271


Canada: 159.2

Australia: 3.9

Let's compare large continental anglo states. Well what do you know? The US didn't do so good, in fact dead last in that category.

Bruce Gee said...

Sebastian: ""Trump relied on the American tradition of federalism — a high ideal — to locate the criticism away from himself."

You sure about that?

Trump could have just thought 1. based on his observations of federal government bureaucracies and federal officials, that the feds didn't have all the answers, and 2. that this is a big country with different conditions in different places, which call for different solutions."

You sure about that?

Jamie said...

As usual for an organization with a limited mission, the CDC reopening guidelines did not attempt to balance damage to the economy, which also has a body count, with a reasonable risk profile for a pandemic that we now know is not deadly to the vast majority of people, but is very dangerous among certain groups. Why on Earth should the president of the United States, who is not the president of only the elderly and those with vulnerable comorbidities, just accept those guidelines? Why should he not apply the appropriate balance?

And although it seems as if ordinary life has ground to a halt, it does go on. Even in our terrible unemployment situation, most Americans who had jobs before continue to be working, producing, paying bills and taxes. Foreign policy matters continue to need attention. And the gross overreach of the Obama years continues to erode trust in our institutions and, apparently, the critical thinking skills of those who for whatever the reason like a good dose of overreach as long as it's done by the right people. But no, the president's appropriate use of constitutional authority is "incompetence."

Is that all you've got?

Big Mike said...

The latest blame game from the WH includes the CDC ...

@roesch, so far the CDC has done hardly anything right relative to COVID-19. Yet preparing to deal with pandemics is their core mission. And it’s beyond argument that they blew it.

Michael K said...

Freder again:

But Trump has made the situation worse by competing with the states for supplies.

Do you have a stupid ball you stare into to get these comments ?

Michael K said...

We are so lucky to have a strategic genius like Trump and his truly brilliant son-in-law (did you know he went to Harvard?) as our leaders.

ARM finally said something I agree with. What has it been? Three years ?

Original Mike said...

"When the crisis began, liberals voiced their long-standing criticism: Trump is a wannabe dictator who will use this crisis as an excuse to exercise authoritarian power. He hasn’t…"

"Trump is a wannabe dictator" is nor more based in reality than "Russia! Russia! Russia!".

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

You only agree because you are senile and missed the point.

Yancey Ward said...

You can literally feel Howard and ARM's pain in their comments in this thread. They really did believe the Democrats had Trump boxed in on this crisis, and, day by day, you can see them coming to the awful realization that Trump is going to win the day here.

I wrote it many, many weeks ago when the national guidelines were released by the administration- Trump's reliance on federalism was a brilliant political maneuver. Howard, you can try to piss all over it if you want to, but it did serve a practical purpose that is beneficial to the country as a whole- it solved the first mover problem (who is going to risk reopening after a closure) that I identified as the biggest danger to the economy- it solved it by making sure the largest number of politicians had actual skin in the game. It is, in fact, the only reason you are seeing parts of New York state beginning to reopen right now- by giving the governors the power, Trump made it as likely as possible that someone would act first. That someone turned out to be fake governor Brian Kemp.

Bruce Hayden said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
RMc said...

Or they could just be incoherent on the subject of authoritarianism

When has the Left ever been coherent about...anything?

Let's compare large continental anglo states.

Them goalposts have wheels, don't they?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

It's over. No sensible person is voting for Trump after this debacle. He'll get the extreme partisans, but that is all. This clown was pushing snake oil cures in the middle of the greatest crisis the country has faced this century. Weakest intellect ever to hold the office of president.

Jamie said...

Try harder, ARM. Population density of Australia - a little over 3 people per sq km. Canada - 4. U.S. - just over thirty-five people per sq km. All agree (how not?) that population density plays a significant role in infection rates as well as the ability to practice social distancing.

Oh, I think we've done just fine compared with the rest of the anglosphere.

Dude1394 said...

Donald J. Trump continues to be the most law-abiding ( by far from what I can recall ) POTUS in modern history. Only Carter would come close.

Bruce Hayden said...

Whoops. Try again.


“I forgot to say that quite apart from all of this being in the spirit of the Constitution, this is also a very effective strategy, and maybe the best, for dealing with real world problems.”

Here is the dilemma. Federalism allowed Red State governors to respond better, and have better results, because their demographics were not nearly as dangerous, and ultimately fatal, as those faced by many BLUE State governors. And this will ultimately pay economic dividends for them. On the flip side, their inner politically correct authoritarian came out with BLUE State governors (and Dem mayors). This turned out to be a killer, both in terms of human lives, as well as economically. Compounding this, they tended to be leveraged much more highly with high paid, often union, government employees, and their grossly underfunded pensions. It seems almost as if Murphy was in charge of policy is some of these big Blue States, like NY - if it could go wrong, it did so. A national response might very well have saved some of the pain in those states. Except that it would have been very hard for the bureaucrats in DC (population density similar to all of NYC, maybe half that of Manhattan), given the East Coast urban outlook of the bureaucrats who would have made the decisions.

Still, I am glad it went the way it did, not being forced (directly) to pay for the folly of living in a densely populated city, ruled by Dem leaders inevitably more interested in garnering power and money, than the death and economic collapse their policies most often cause.

Dude1394 said...

""Given 'em enough rope... they will hang themselves."

Blue state authoritarians are showing meager public health benefits and bankrupting their states, while Red states are starting to move on."

Again, you underestimate the power of the democrat propaganda media. I mean Cuomo by all accounts has completely and utterly screwed the pooch on this. 30+ percent of the deaths are in nursing homes that he FORCED to take wuhan flu cases. Screaming that he needed 400K ventilators NOW!!!!!!

He's been shown for a fool and someone running around with his head cut off

BUT...

His poll numbers are still very high and the democrat propaganda media still props him up. Their power is not to be taken lightly.

hombre said...

“Trump relied on the American tradition of federalism — a high ideal — to locate the criticism away from himself.“

Is that what he was doing? And here I thought he was honoring the Constitution and federalism. After all, he is not a Democrat for whom all is politics.

Bruce Hayden said...

“ Trump's reliance on federalism was a brilliant political maneuver. Howard, you can try to piss all over it if you want to, but it did serve a practical purpose that is beneficial to the country as a whole- it solved the first mover problem (who is going to risk reopening after a closure) that I identified as the biggest danger to the economy- it solved it by making sure the largest number of politicians had actual skin in the game. It is, in fact, the only reason you are seeing parts of New York state beginning to reopen right now- by giving the governors the power, Trump made it as likely as possible that someone would act first.”

Interesting suggestion. But I would go further. It essentially is forcing the big Blue States to open up, in competition with less densely populated and more Republican states. I don’t think that they really want to. But it is having an effect - like the joke that TX put up a Welcome to TX sign in front of the OK sign, to get the fleeing Californians to go there instead. I think that a number of these Dem governors would have been fine maintains quarantining, etc, at least through the election. But they really can’t, in the face of much of the rest of the country opening up.

Michael K said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
You only agree because you are senile and missed the point.


ARM actually made me laugh. Thanks, ARM.

Dude1394 said...

" Blogger Yancey Ward said...

You can literally feel Howard and ARM's pain in their comments in this thread. They really did believe the Democrats had Trump boxed in on this crisis, and, day by day, you can see them coming to the awful realization that Trump is going to win the day here.
"

I admit, when trump sanctioned the shutdown I thought he was making a very horrible, horrible mistake. Still do honestly, but a horrible political mistake. I couldn't figure out how he would get out from under it. But it's been actually pretty damn easy. He is on the side of the workers, the people trying to get a job, to open the place up and go about living.

As usual, he is on the POSITIVE side of life. Working hard to help america and do what's right for the people.

So he now can tweet constantly and consistently "REOPEN OUR COUNTRY!", "good numbers out of states opening up", "Its Democrat Governor was forced by the courts to let the State Open. The people want to get on with their lives. The place is bustling!" and so on.

He can bang that drum for months and he will be correct. Democrats can only tell their supporters to cower in their binkies.

Susan said...

Trump did not use the crisis to seize power and become Emperor of All and get everything he can for his base. Instead he followed the Constitution. Who DOES that?

If you are a Democrat this means he is either up to something or stupid.

Because everyone knows that you NEVER let a crisis go to waste.

TrespassersW said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Let's compare large continental anglo states. Well what do you know? The US didn't do so good, in fact dead last in that category.

Now do red states vs blue states.

Hey Skipper said...

I just love how you twist incompetence into some grand design.

@Gret Hlatky:

Deaths per million population

...

US: 271
US, less greater New York City: 195


But wait, there's less.

Colorado has decided to distinguish "dying of" from "dying with" Wuhan19.

Reducing their death count by more than 20%.

Drago said...

ARM and his Beijing masters are freaking out about the now over 100 nations that are demanding an independent (Non-WHO) led investigation into the origins of the ChiCom flu.

Beijing and its mouthpieces like ARM realize the jig is up and their desperation is palpable.

CNN polls show Trump up by 7% in battleground states. Gallup has Trump at his highest approvals ever.

Biden is collapsing amongst women, particularly millenials and Bidens campaign is in panic over their hispanic support collapse.

And we havent even started yet!

LOLOLOLOL

ARM is going to need a tsunami of new ChiCom talking points to get thru the next 6 months!

n.n said...

Thus the left-right nexus. That said, the left wants a planned baby and have her, too.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Jamie said...
All agree (how not?) that population density plays a significant role in infection rates as well as the ability to practice social distancing.


So then the comparison of a large continental country with a small European country is meaningless. God this is easy.

daskol said...

Murphy is literally NJ's governor. But Cuomo was the one who first failed to protect our elders and heed the lessons of the Washington state outbreak. But mistakes are made when dealing with a new virus, and even Murphy's starting to make some sense (opening beaches for MDW, for example). I agree with those who think that federalism in the practical sense of 50 states with different situations and leadership vs. Federalism the high ideal is the operative term here.

Lurker21 said...

We are more like Britain or France at this point than we are like Australia or New Zealand. We aren't so distant or easy to cut off than those countries. New York City's population density is far greater than that of Sydney or Melbourne. Also, consider that our Winter was their Summer and the virus was presumably weaker in the warmer weather.

Bilwick said...

I have mentioned in the past the sardonic observation that in Obama's first term, "liberals" started changing their bumper stickers from "Question Authority" to "Obey." Now there's a discussion on Instapundit about how Antifa has pretty much disappeared in the Age of Lockdoown, and someone observes that "#Resist" has pretty effortlessly morphed into "#Comply."
Not shocked at all, despite Inga's claim that Antifa were anarchists. I remember how in the Sixties many of the counterculture "rebels" claiming to be anarchists, while always supporting statis,.

Bilwick said...

ARM the State cultist expressing disdain for "snake oil." Priceless.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

What idiot state would bid against the Feds? Trump said repeatedly if states found themselves bidding against FEMA then “drop out of bidding and call me. We’ll get you the” whatever. He said it about ventilators. He said it about PPE. He said it over and over. Funny how six-week-dead FakeNews talking points still circulate among the lefter side of the commentariat here.

Assistant Village Idiot said...

"I'll take 'Incoherent' for $1000, Alex."

Dust Bunny Queen said...


Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Let's compare large continental anglo states. Well what do you know? The US didn't do so good, in fact dead last in that category.


Roy Jacobson.....Now do red states vs blue states.

Yes. Now do Red Counties versus Blue Counties in a Blue State.

Jamie said...
All agree (how not?) that population density plays a significant role in infection rates as well as the ability to practice social distancing.


ARM Says....So then the comparison of a large continental country with a small European country is meaningless. God this is easy.

YES Now you have it. It IS MEANINGLESS to make comparisons between small densely packed Countries with large sparsely populated countries.

APPLES and ORANGES. No comparison.

Same thing applies to comparing NYC with thousands of people per square mile to a less populated area like the entire freaking State of Montana and treating both areas the same. there is NO comparison and it is a waste of time to try.

God. This IS easy.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Lurker 21. We are more like Britain or France at this point than we are like Australia or New Zealand. We aren't so distant or easy to cut off than those countries. New York City's population density is far greater than that of Sydney or Melbourne.

WE? Speak for yourself. Not all of the United States is like NYC...(BTW..screw NYC). Much of the country IS like Australia or New Zealand. Many of the States like South Dakota have less than HALF the population in the entire State that NYC has.

Yes. We aren't islands or island continents, so we are more vulnerable there...especially since the Democrats are determined to destroy our borders and allow anyone in the world to enter illegally.

I live in a Blue State in a RED County. We have about 7 people per square mile in the area where I live. If you take the total population of the County and divide by Square Miles....= 4.5 per square mile. Not even remotely similar.

Did I mention screw NYC?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Ok.... I do apologize for my Screw NYC remarks. That was mean and cold. There are many good people there and many who are just trapped by economics. I don't wish them ill. I feel bad for them to be in such a situation.

What I resent is the idea of NYC being the standard for which the rest of the country is imprisoned in their houses and the standard by which everything else is judged. NYC is NOT the center of the universe, nor is it the most important place on Earth.


Dude1394 said...


Blogger Susan said...
Trump did not use the crisis to seize power and become Emperor of All and get everything he can for his base. Instead he followed the Constitution. Who DOES that?”

Only George Washington comes to mind to be honest.

MadisonMan said...

No sensible person is voting for Trump after this debacle

You do realize that the alternative is Joe Freakin' Biden, right?

Known Unknown said...

Hydroxychloroquine + Z-Pack + Zinc used in earlier stages has worked very well in treating COVID-19. Why any doctor would use without Zinc is beyond me.

It is not snake oil.

Original Mike said...

"You do realize that the alternative is Joe Freakin' Biden, right?"

You do realize it's ARM, right?

Michael K said...

Some of these comment threads are quite revealing. And those revealed have no idea.

Drago said...

ARM: "So then the comparison of a large continental country with a small European country is meaningless. God this is easy."

That's what everyone thought until ARM and his lefty pals kept comparing the US to small European countries in February and March.

Now, as with all things, ARM and his other ChiCom allied pals have switched gears because of course they did.

Unexpectedly.

Drago said...

RMc: "When has the Left ever been coherent about...anything?"

On this issue, ARM has been every bit as "consistent" as the Chinese Communist Party.

In fact, I would venture to say ARM has been EXACTLY as "consistent" as the Chinese Communist Party.

Lurker21 said...

WE? Speak for yourself. Not all of the United States is like NYC...(BTW..screw NYC). Much of the country IS like Australia or New Zealand. Many of the States like South Dakota have less than HALF the population in the entire State that NYC has.

So you want to throw out Trump because so many more Americans have died than Australians? Interesting. Even without New York City, the dead per million figure for the US is much greater than that for Australia. I was trying to explain a few reasons why that is so. But go ahead, continue thrashing around aimlessly.

TheOne Who Is Not Obeyed said...

From Fredo Frederson: " He is using the crisis to illegally fire inspectors general he doesn't like."

1. Boy, those Dem talking points get out there fast. FF must have hot-copied them right from his memo from the DNC;
2. The IGs serve at the pleasure of the President. It is impossible for him to "illegally" fire an IG. Just ask Obama, since he set the Presidential precedent:

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/18/us/politics/18americorps.html

3. There is a law that the President has to give reasons, and he has done so in the case of firing this IG. Whether the Dems in the legislative branch like those reasons is irrelevant.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Lurker So you want to throw out Trump because so many more Americans have died than Australians? Interesting

Um...I think you need to read more of my comments. You misunderstood my comment and probably I wasn't very clear. In no way do I want to get rid of Trump.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago Mental Stability Index (DMSI™) Report

DMSI 5: McDonalds on a typical day
DMSI 4: Republican National Convention
DMSI 3: Bedlam Level ***
DMSI 2: Arkham Level
DMSI 1 : Dark Side of the Moon

I am glad to report that Drago has stabilized somewhat and has shifted down from a very troubling DMSI-2 rating back to the still worrisome but more stable DMSI-3. Good job everyone. Just don't mention Venezuela.

effinayright said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

Michael K: "Some of these comment threads are quite revealing. And those revealed have no idea."

It is amusing that ARM believes he can shove his Xi cuckholster history down the same memory hole as his russia collusion fever dreams and kavanaugh gang rape lies.

It's fascinating to observe in real time and is reminiscent of that astonishing meltdown ARM had a few years back, after which he disappeared for quite some time to recover.

One can only imagine what therapies were required to bring him back from that one.

effinayright said...

wholelottasplainin' said...
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
It's over. No sensible person is voting for Trump after this debacle. He'll get the extreme partisans, but that is all.

>>> Yeah, the thinking people will see Wretched Whitmer, Katy Brown, "Tall Duval" Charlie Baker, Cuomo, Ensley, Garcetti and the other Dem/Rino idiots in the BLUE states and....blame **Trump** for their autocratic and unconstitutional over-reach.

This clown was pushing snake oil cures in the middle of the greatest crisis the country has faced this century.

>>>> Yeah, like the hydroxy chloroquine snake oil cure----which has been since ratified by many doctors. And Trump said a few hours ago that he is taking it himself!!!

Weakest intellect ever to hold the office of president.

>>>> Whereas your unaccomplished ass is GENIUS!!

S N O R T

Michael K said...

Another nonsensical comment by ARM. He is really stirred up.

Relax, ARM. November 3 will soon be here and you can find another form of recreation.

narciso said...

meanwhile mary Anastasia o'grady points out the lockdown in brazil, as it was in Ecuador is very counterproductive,

Michael K said...

Whitmore is really going for the crazies to come after her.

Hillary is now commenting and Michigan, outside of Detroit, must really be boiling.

Ignatius Acton Chesterton OCD said...

ARM: “Australia: 3.9”

It was summer down there.

High temps and sunlight.

And Aussies like to drink, so the quinine in the gin-and-tonics may help!

Science says....

Nichevo said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan ... has stabilized somewhat

If you say so.

Kirk Parker said...

"Trump is a wannabe dictator" is nor more based in reality than "Russia! Russia! Russia!".

Indeed it's not, but I can tell you what it is based on: projection!

Michael K said...

With ARM's comments on this thread, I can almost see the spittle fly. He is really in a rage.

Darrell said...

If BC ARM were a dinosaur, he'd be Merda Rex.

Original Mike said...

ARM thinks Australia and the U.S. are same thing, only scaled to size. It's juvenile.

Norpois said...

Ah, political science professors. Look, I love history. And the constitution. But to most Americans educated as they have been educated, this stuff (FDR and other historical examples) doesn't resonate. There are some very smart conservative voices ....and all they talk about is "American Exceptionalism" and "federalism" etc. ....but the person on the subway or listening to radio on the way to work...these words don't connect. Elites talking to elites. Honey badger Trump don't care. The smartest thing conservative intellectuals and bloggers could do is eliminate the words "federalism", "Founders" and "American exceptionalism" from their discourse. Its the conservative equivalent of "Internal contradictions of capitalism" and labor theory of value" -- solely for initiates! Forget the slogans. They are old and unintelligible.
The "American Founding" is a niche, elitist concept today -- and I say, Alas! but realize, it is true.
I think Trump made a smart simple decision -- who knows how Covid is going to go? I don't want to own it -- if I do fix it, I won't get credit; if I don't, this is big enough to alienate my own base. No brainer to devolve it to 50 governors.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

The Trump dead-enders will cling onto the rotting corpse of Trumpism for a few more months, but the smarter Republicans are already asking themselves, how did it all end in tears yet again. Two failed presidencies in a row.

Lurker21 said...

The smartest thing conservative intellectuals and bloggers could do is eliminate the words "federalism", "Founders" and "American exceptionalism" from their discourse.

That would probably be a mistake. The reason there are intellectuals (if that's what they are) is to talk about things like the Founders and federalism.

But it's true that people are getting tired of the standard discourse and want politicians to address them directly and about things that are immediately important. The rhetoric can get stale and hermetic and sound like it's only addressed to people who have done the seminars and internships and cruises.

I would probably drop the phrase "American exceptionalism." Nobody seems to know what it means and it's more often used to obscure rather than clarify. The concept that we are a nation that has its own values that can't be forced into some globalist mold, though, is an important one that shouldn't be lost.