"But deaf and hard of hearing people do it more, especially in noisy places. I don’t sign, but people who do also use facial expressions to help to connote meaning in American Sign Language. When I’m somewhere noisy, and a person speaking to me is wearing a mask, my speech comprehension is abysmal. I can understand about 20 percent of what is being said, which is functionally useless. Early in the pandemic, at the end of a stressful two-hour grocery trip, the cashier was trying to explain that she couldn’t use my reusable bags. She seemed frustrated when I couldn’t answer simple questions. She was clearly stressed and needed to call in a second cashier before I understood what the problem was.... The pandemic has made it even clearer that the world is not made for people with disabilities."
From "I’m Deaf and I Lip-Read. All Those Masks Are Presenting a Problem" by Nehama Rogozen (in Slate).
Before reading this article, I hadn't thought about the problem masks present for people who rely on lip reading to interact with other people. People with disabilities stir special sympathy. But notice that she is also talking about how we are all disabled in our ability to understand each other people when half the face is covered. No smiles. No frowns. No lip-pursing. No slack-jawed awe. No yawning. Without the ability to see a facial expression, we may lose interest in other people. Why do we want to have conversations? Rogozen speaks of her difficulty getting through a supermarket check-out line, and we have a lot of motivation to do that, to get the things we need as we live our at-home life. But we may slip away from deeper conversations if they do not connect us to a human face.
From the Wikipedia article "Facial expression." Caption: "Photographs from the 1862 book Mécanisme de la Physionomie Humaine by Guillaume Duchenne. Through electric stimulation, he determined which muscles were responsible for different facial expressions. Charles Darwin would later republish some of these photographs in his own work on the subject, which compared facial expressions in humans to those in animals."
May 13, 2020
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This time of year my nose is perpetually running. Masks prove problematic for me.
Without the ability to see a facial expression, we may lose interest in other people.
Women might. Guys' interest will be held by the chest as usual
My spouse has learned that facemasks with elastic don't work well with glasses and hearing aids. He prefers a mask with cloth ties. He's also suddenly realized just how much lip reading he's been doing. Between his hearing loss and tinnitus, he's definitely struggling out in the noisy world. One local group has been making masks with a "pane" of vinyl and I recently saw their latest pattern which is clear across the whole face. I am not sure what it looks like after it gets breathed upon for any amount of time.
It's fun when people mistake my fear grimace for a friendly smile.
I noticed this right away, how strange and disconnected the conversation is when you cannot see the mouth and entire lower half of the face. Not a fan. I hate wearing the damn things, too.
Add this to the list of reasons 2020 sucks so far.
"One local group has been making masks with a "pane" of vinyl and I recently saw their latest pattern which is clear across the whole face."
The Slate article has some discussion of "clear" masks. How do they not get fogged up... or embarrassingly dirtied?
The eyes are very expressive you can't read lips but you know what's going on inside someone's head when you're still able to direct the male gaze deeply into the windows of the soul.
I have an expressive face and when I talk some people interpret too much in my expression rather than listening to what I'm saying. The mask helps...
I've spent 40 years working in operating rooms where everyone has a mask on. People get so they communicate a lot with their eyes. It takes a while and will not happen in this setting. Masks right now are theater like TSA and will soon pass as a fad.
When I went to the grocery store yesterday, the cashier tried to make small talk through her mask, which I couldn’t hear because of the mask. I just smiled and nodded, which the cashier couldn’t see anyway because of my mask.
That's vile. I've posted here a few time how one upshot of this whole mask phenomenon is that it's helped me to realize just how much I've come to rely on lipreading to supplement my degrading hearing. Turns out it's quite a lot. I've had some hints of that: difficult to have conversations in the car, or when someone is facing away from me, but when people are wearing masks it's impossible to ignore the clues.
(vinyl masks are vile)
What disturbs me about the article is it's obviously a ChiCom planted story in conjunction with the Deep State and the MSM to defeat Trump. President Xi has convinced Trump that wearing masks is not masculine. Then President Trump, as an unwitting dupe to the Chinese ploy, has fed this meme to his deplorable minions that caters to their phony toughness and extreme susceptibility to ideological peer pressure to not wear masks because they symbolize fearfulness.
You have to ask yourself GaltHouse, is your promulgation of such an article implanted by a foreign intelligence agency helping?
The other day, when that female Chinese "reporter" for the Red Chinese government tried a "gotcha" with Trump, she realized that her muffled voice didn't carry and what did carry wasn't particularly clear. She removed her mask and shouted at the president.
No respect for the office.
New rule. You're rude in the manner of the body language, voice, or attitude, your WH press pass is removed.
The better half has an audiology dept. where she works. The are anticipating a big increase of new business, when people realize how bad their hearing has gotten and the amount of lip reading they were doing.
I know, from watching my mother slide into dementia, a big factor was her refusing to get hearing aides. Money was not the issue, just misplaced pride. The less she heard the more she isolated. A spiral she could not pull out of until it was too late.
All those masks are presenting a problem--among the young and healthy, the problem of needless safety theater that needlessly delays herd immunity. Kids, for the good of society, take off those masks!
I imagine that it’s worse for deaf women and people of color.
My hearing has been in decline for a few years. I haven't yet learned to read lips, but I understand seeing facial expressions help. However, simply covering your mouth and speaking to me is the equivalent of me holding my hands over my ears. I can hear noise, but damned if I know what was said. And the more extravagant the mask, the less I hear. And that's 100%, not the 20% that I might catch a virus if you are one of the less 2% that have it.
Some people in Asia are wearing plastic face protectors over their masks. There are also masks with clear plastic over the mouth, but it seems like the plastic face protector alone leaves a lot to be desired.
Some of the more advanced face masks contain "activated carbon" filtering, i.e. charcoal.
I guess they are for the surviving Tareyton smokers who would still rather fight than switch.
Most of the masks non-medical people wear are in the "only slightly better than nothing" category when it comes to protecting either the wearer or the people around the wearer from this virus or any other. Unfortunately, people who have difficulty hearing spoken words are not in a favored protected class so "slightly better than nothing" is good enough to tell them to go pound sand.
The Parks dept. blocked the entrance to the off-leash dog walking park....because social distancing. You could still use the park, but you had to walk a distance.
Then they had to remove the barriers for the handicapped so they could reach the dog walking park without walking.
The added muffling from all the frightened sheeple wearing masks is just enough to make it near impossible for me to hear them unless they come close to yelling.
Facial expressions themselves are an important part of communications. Are you looking at a friendly smile or a scowl? Masks hide some obvious non-verbal communications.
I'd like a mask made from asbestos. Soaked in RoundUp. Dusted with talcum powder. With a small flap through which I can stick my JUUL vaping pen.
the amount of lip reading they were doing.
My mother lip reads, and doesn't even know it. She's never seen herself adjust the seat to better view the speaker.
has fed this meme to his deplorable minions that caters to their phony toughness and extreme susceptibility to ideological peer pressure to not wear masks because they symbolize fearfulness.
I am more and more convinced that Howard is a gay boy.
"The other day, when that female Chinese "reporter" for the Red Chinese government tried a "gotcha" with Trump, she realized that her muffled voice didn't carry and what did carry wasn't particularly clear. She removed her mask and shouted at the president."
I thought what she was doing is displaying the fact that she was Chinese, in order to facilitate the charge of racism.
I didn't realize how much I communicate by smiling until I started wearing these things.
https://masks4all.co/
" I don’t sign, but people who do also use facial expressions to help to connote meaning in American Sign Language."
Jeez, it's not just sign language -- body language, facial expressions, general vibe -- give out all sorts of clues about what the person is actually thinking.
I don’t sign, but people who do also use facial expressions to help to connote meaning in American Sign Language.
Boy, do they! I never realized how true this is till I started watching the Mass on TV during quarantine. ASL, at least as done by interpreters on TV, is really, REALLY, uh, expressive. It looks a lot like they're trying to communicate basic concepts to severely retarded children.
Thanks for proving my point, Doc Mike. You don't even realize you are parroting the people's Republic of China talking points word for word.
Guys' interest will be held by the chest as usual
That depends on which way the visual target is facing.
remember that twilight zone episode, where everyone wore masks,
Deaf person wants to kill Grandma!
In stockholder meetings and conferences where the audience numbers in the thousands, it is unusual to not have "IMAG" (abbreviation for IMage MAGnification showing the face of the person speaking on giant screen(s).
While fashion plays a big role in this (it is what event organizers see the bigger players doing, so they want to do the same), at the root people started doing this because the intelligibility of speech over the sound system in the large room is improved greatly. Complaints about sound quality go down, engagement with the content of the meeting goes up.
Howard said...
Thanks for proving my point, Doc Mike. You don't even realize you are parroting the people's Republic of China talking points word for word.
I guess you would know the PRC talking points.
I await the integration of a mask with a ball gag. There's probably a leather-worker turning one out right now.
We used Duchenne's work on a big project for HP in 2006 when we launched HALO, their telepresence conferencing suites. It was all about the ability to be in the same room even though you might be 10,000 miles away. It was a great product. We demo'd it many times in palo Alto at the HP Executive Briefing Center and you felt like you were all in the same room 2 minutes in. Reading facial expressions was a major part of it.
In this light, it does seem odd that every politician making a Covid Speech telling everyone to wear a mask has a sign language interpreter beside them for the hearing impaired.
Howard The eyes are very expressive you can't read lips but you know what's going on inside someone's head when you're still able to direct the male gaze deeply into the windows of the soul.
Yeah, Howard, you say that...BUT my eyes are up HERE!!
It is weird though to try to have a conversation with someone where you can't see much of their face. You do lose a lot of that nonverbal communication that comes from facial expressions.
Howard said...
Thanks for proving my point, Doc Mike. You don't even realize you are parroting the people's Republic of China talking points word for word.
The ChiComs think you are gay, too ? Well, I guess they got that right anyway.
narciso said... remember that twilight zone episode, where everyone wore masks,
Do I ever! Just wait until people start taking off the masks. Surprise!
Ha. I went to the Dr (actually a nurse, who is very good and I like very much) a few weeks ago and she was wearing a mask and I remarked that it felt kind of like going to a robot nurse, because the mask was sort of like the mesh grills old-fashioned robots would sport. I suggested she should practice eye expressions. She was, in fact, amused.
Trump gets attacked for not wearing a mask. If he wore a mask, he'd be ridiculed for wearing a mask.
Irish hairdresser creates innovative chair featuring perspex screen to protect clients from coronavirus - and hopes it will enable her salon to open earlier than the lockdown exit plan
Doc Mike: Never go full Shouting Thomas.
If you don't sign fluently using American Sign Language, you probably won't know that there is not just the usual facial expressions but also language specific facial expressions that are supplying grammar. It's a formal part of the language. Many of the lip expressions are providing adjective or adverbs. So if you see a sign language interpreter and you think he is exaggerating or doing baby talk, he is not. He is "speaking" ASL correctly. Sorry to be a pedant. :)
The ClearMask™
No indeed the world is not "made" for people with disabilities BUT it normally tries pretty hard. If you are blind you cannot read facial expressions at all or enjoy art. Sad but no one's fault. But to draw conclusions from a pandemic...
Meade said...
“I'd like a mask made from asbestos. Soaked in RoundUp. Dusted with talcum powder. With a small flap through which I can stick my JUUL vaping pen.“
...while playing Jarts in the back yard.
Meade,
Dusted with talcum powder??? Only if you're out of DDT!!!
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