"... to this kind of divisive and inflammatory rhetoric. This moment calls for unity and calmness, and we need empathy for the people and communities who are hurting. We need to come together as a country to pursue justice and break this cycle. But I'm responsible for reacting not just in my personal capacity but as the leader of an institution committed to free expression. I know many people are upset that we've left the President's posts up, but our position is that we should enable as much expression as possible unless it will cause imminent risk of specific harms or dangers spelled out in clear policies... These are difficult decisions and, just like today, the content we leave up I often find deeply offensive. We try to think through all the consequences, and we keep our policies under constant review because the context is always evolving. People can agree or disagree on where we should draw the line, but I hope they understand our overall philosophy is that it is better to have this discussion out in the open, especially when the stakes are so high. I disagree strongly with how the President spoke about this, but I believe people should be able to see this for themselves, because ultimately accountability for those in positions of power can only happen when their speech is scrutinized out in the open."
Zuckerberg speaks (at and about Facebook).
I strongly support this commitment to freedom of speech, and I'm glad to see the theory of freedom of speech articulated clearly where lots of people will see it and maybe even believe it.
May 30, 2020
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71 comments:
If only Zuckerberg lived in Minneapolis. He could go out and tell those bad boy ANTIFA types to stop being so mean to his Democrat voters.
The old fashioned standard is upheld.
I'll wait at least a year before taking Zuckerberg seriously. Facebook is currently in BS fact check mode and I expect it will get worse, not better.
Zuckerberg is right on this. And, for our lefty friends who have been so quick to censor and so afraid of other views or opinions, you should know that, at least in this situation, Trump repulses more people than he pleases. If you want to get rid of Trump, this is how you get rid of Trump. Let him speak. Let him Tweet.
If Trump cannot control himself for one minute, he won't get re-elected. It's that simple. If he can, in the end, and not a moment too soon, learn how to act as an adult, with some grace and when necessary, some restraint, then he'll win re-election. If he cannot (and let's face it, at this point in his life, he will not) he will not be back for a 2nd term. A sack of potatoes will defeat him. And that is essentially what the Dems are putting up: a sack of potatoes.
Great post from Zuckerberg.
Could do without the virtue signaling. Don't say 'I disagree, BUUUT', say 'No-one agrees with all sides of this (or any controversial) discussion and having this discussion occur safely and transparently is the preferred outcome.' And leave it at that.
He’s full of shit. He’s just trying to save his company.
Is this whole “it’s terrible and offensive but we’re leaving it up even though we hate it, and him, the big meanie” commentary going to be added to all of his tweets/posts now? Has the Party spoken? Off to Room 101 for reprogramming?
Fuck Zuck
Speech is violence, violence is speech.
— The Democrats
We try to think through all the consequences, and we keep our policies under constant review because the context is always evolving.
That's not free speech.
We won’t come together as a country. We are too divided. Social media companies have exacerbated the divisions. They are run by progressives. And Facebook censors conservatives every day. They may leave Trump alone. But not the rest.
I don’t think Zuckerburg will feel any empathy when it’s MAGA people in the streets burning it all down.
Isn't that the whole idea about free speech?
I get the point of the post, but “this moment calls for unity and calmness”?
Does anybody ever say “what we need now is strident divisiveness and zealous adherence to an ‘us versus them’ mentality.”?
What's the big deal? Sometimes people say things that you don't like. They have every right to do so. As do you.
The alternative is much worse.
serious question
are the democrat leaders of minnesota, now AGREEING with President Trump;
that 'with looting, comes shooting'?
"This is no longer about protesting," Frey said. "... This is about violence and we need to make sure that it stops."
Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz announced Saturday he has authorized "full mobilization" of the state's National Guard -something that has never been done in the 164-year history of the Minnesota National Guard.
...pushed back on the idea that the protests, which have turned increasingly violent, now have anything to do with George Floyd, an unarmed black man in Minneapolis killed by white police officer Derek Chauvin.
...The terrifying thing is that this resembles more a military operation now as you observe ringleaders moving from place to place,” he added.
I intend to ignore what Zuckerberg says and focus instead on what Facebook does. I would urge this approach on Althouse, but it’s a waste of keystrokes. She foolishly continues to believe that words have meaning when typed or uttered in a political context.
After a while, Zuckerberg even removed Facebook's ban on Diamond and Silk, who had violated community standards by supporting Trump while being Black.
Sounds like major virtue signalling... The reprimand was for saying "All Lives Matters"
Jan 16, 2016 - USA Today
Zuckerberg reprimands Facebook staff defacing 'Black Lives Matter'
i'm sure the vinklevoss twins and saverin feel the same way,
Thanks King zuckerberg for not using your monopoly position to censor the Fucking President of the United States and the leader of the free world. Yes, I know you dislike "divisive rhetoric" which is why you're always on the edge of censoring left-wing speech and the Chicoms. Oh wait, that never happens.
Someone needs to put these Silicon Valley monopolists in their place. Of course, it won't be the Republicans or cucks like Mittens Romney who just want to kiss their asses. One is tempted to simply not care, and let the sheep be ruled by the wolves, which is what they want to be.
I'd be curious what constitutes "this kind of divisive and inflammatory rhetoric." Usually that Liberalese BS for "stuff I don't agree with."
I also support free speech. Right now, however, I’m more concerned about stopping the rioting, burning, and destruction than about congratulating myself for tolerating a remark by the President.
I agree with his views on free speech as well. I have, for over three years, been fighting the urge to feel sorry for Donald Trump because of the ridiculous, over-the-top interpretations of what people think he really "meant". Conversely, I have seen various pundits "explain" away sexism and anti-Semitism as "nuanced views" or "clearly a joke".
Truth of the matter is that it is sad to see that the 2020 presidential elections is a contest between two old white guys with histories of treating women badly and questionable business practices. Time spent arguing which is the "least worse" is time wasted.
Another black man died needlessly in police custody and no one intervened and stopped it. American cities are again on fire. In the near 50 years of my adult life, it has been an endless cycle despite thousands of hours of diversity training mandated by public agencies and employers.
We have more words than ever but less open communication. I do not blame the random individuals who witnessed the death of George Floyd for not stopping it. What could you do it in such a circumstance? No, seriously what could have been done? HOW could have that incident been stopped? Start with that training and go on to how it could have been prevented in SPECIFIC terms. Don't tell the guy in Wyoming that the tragedy in Minnesota could have been avoided if he had been more open to diversity. Teach him how to prevent it from happening in Wyoming. You can only do that with open, honest dialogue.
Zukabug's bowels have been frantically messaging his brain in the hopes of silencing Trump. So far it hasn't worked, but I doubt they've given up. All of humanity anxiously await the outcome of this internal struggle. It's an international event.
Good for you Z. I guess Xi shoulda named your child for you when you asked him to.
Unless you're Kathy Griffith - she lets her freaky hate-filled Trump death-wish Nazi flag fly.
and no one on twitter cares.
We need to come together as a country to pursue justice and break this cycle.
What's the term for hifalutin bullshit?
What exactly does "come together as a country" mean?
= Get together and shoot looters on sight?
How about "pursue justice"?
= Life in prison for armed home invasion?
And "break this cycle"?
= Stop black crime?
"In NYC, Blacks Make Up 69% of Those Shot by Police, But 79% of Those Who Shoot at Police"
Regardless of his personal preferences, Trump would do well to stop the personal attacks for a while. Politics is about ethical adaptation (among other things). Targeting the seditious Democrats, the politically corrupt media, including social media, and China ought to be enough. The Scarborough bullshit was too much.
Why does everyone think they have to respond to anything posted on social media?
Every UMC white woman on my feed who has to make sure that everyone knows how they feel about George Floyd and white supremacy. It's bizarre. There's a thousand things that I have had a negative reaction to seeing this past week on fb. Guess what? I ignored it and logged off and decided not to go on for awhile until things died down. Because I don't want to be manipulated by a social media company who wants my reaction to be monetized.
Zuckerberg is right. I’ve been one to say throughout this Trump presidency that Trump should continue to tweet to his hearts content, it only displays what he’s all about and we need to know what that is, as ugly and divisive it is. We need to keep being reminded what this man is and who he aligns himself with and those who align themselves with him. The light of day reveals all sorts of things we’d never see in the dark.
One has to wonder why Zuck chose only president Trump as the crucible of Facebook censorship.
"I've been struggling with how to respond to the President's tweets and posts all day. Personally, I have a visceral negative reaction... to this kind of divisive and inflammatory rhetoric.
In targeting Trump, Zuck certainly didn't articulate a logical reaction or identify what he labels is "divisive and inflammatory rhetoric" in his manifesto.
Shorter Zuck: Orangeman bad, because feels.
I wonder if he has a visceral negative reaction to any other public figure... Visceral negative criticism is only reserved for outspoken Republicans and Democrats with more than a dozen rape indictments pending.
Sure. All come together. Just like his lefty editors have been doing for years. Maybe Mr and Mrs Zuckerberg should invite a mob over for some social bonding
If a company wants to regulate speech on their platform, is it still free speech?
Our Great current President (Trump) has a twitter account, just like our former President (Obama) and recently defeated Presidential candidate (Hillary).
All 3 express opinions. If you don't like said opinions, don't read them.
One of these 3 political titans makes a lotta headlines and news-stories with his tweets, while the other 2 offer mostly pointless pablum.
Too bad, so sad.
Zuckerberg 3, Dorsey 1
"Personally, I have a visceral negative reaction ... to this kind of divisive and inflammatory rhetoric."
Only to Trump's "rhetoric" or generally? You aren't virtuously signaling, are you, Mark, that progs don't do divisive and inflammatory, are you?
By the way, I want an Althouse post on the use of the word "divisive." It's standard prog rhetoric agains the right, of course, but it's also odd: it attacks a claim not on its substance but on its presumed effect, an effect demonstrated by the reaction of the attacker, and it implicitly adopts a standard of evaluation, namely that claims should promote unity rather than division, that is never applied to lefty rhetoric and in fact constitutes a demand for consensus on the attacker's terms.
Althouse, this is right in your wheelhouse!
Zuckerberg's libtard goons gave me a one-week banhammer for a comment that consisted in its entirety of the words "Illegal immigration is a crime."
Google says "Don't Be Evil," but they don't take it seriously. Zuckerberg has the world telling him all the time that he's evil and a major motion picture showing just how evil he has been, so maybe he takes moral choices a little more seriously.
How frickin' hard can it be?
Is it legal?
Is it illegal?
The only thing constantly evolving is your God complex.
Inga said... it only displays what he’s all about and we need to know what that is, as ugly and divisive it is.
Trump is the divisive one?
Do you even think for a minute before promoting DNC talking points?
Until Trump was elected, we were a unified nation on most issues. Right...
The light of day reveals all sorts of things we’d never see in the dark.
Nah. Your team does its best work in the dark. Then they sleep all day.
They block beautiful military memes on Facebook. They cover them with a screen that says the photo may contain violence or graphic images. One was a Navy woman singing Hallelujah, with pictures of veterans shown during her singing...not fighting, not killing anybody...just smiling. WHY?? I saw 3 different ones during the Memorial Day Weekend, and nobody could answer why.
Bullshitters gotta bullshit. Zuckerberg is just trying to sell our info and remain a viable platform to do so. As posters have already put it, watch what he does, not what he says. His "fact checkers" always skew left and only police the right, never the left.
The left's fixation with killing free speech is Don Quixotesque. It will never happen and only shows the crypto-nazi impulses they naturally have. The only remedy for speech you disagree with is more free speech. Remember that comrades.
Some thoughts about visceral negative reactions: Libs are forever cautioning white people that any negative thoughts they harbor about Others are a symptom of their latent Nazism. Without the prudent direction and supervision of libs, white people would be sure to surrender to those feelings and create a new Nazi Germany. It's very important to have liberals in control of the levers of power. Who knows how bad the police would be in Minneapolis if the state and city were not controlled by liberals.....I wonder if anyone on earth besides me has ever considered the contra example of not Nazi Germany but of Rwanda. In Rwanda, the people there luxuriated in their hatred. Neighbors hunted down neighbors and killed them with garden instruments. They felt righteous and justified in doing so. They acted out their visceral negative feelings about their neighbors....Maybe Zuckerberg should do something about his visceral negative reactions. The American public is being encouraged by the media to go full Rwandan against the police.....The police officer, based on the visible evidence, acted wrongly and should be punished. It was not, however, an act of premeditated murder, nor savage beyond all norms of civilized behavior. I have yet to read a word that suggests that hatred for this officer is overdone or that the hatred directed against police who had nothing to do with his crime is a form of wanton bigotry.
You shouldn't respond at all dude.
"Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz announced Saturday he has authorized "full mobilization" of the state's National Guard -something that has never been done in the 164-year history of the Minnesota National Guard.
...pushed back on the idea that the protests, which have turned increasingly violent, now have anything to do with George Floyd, an unarmed black man in Minneapolis killed by white police officer Derek Chauvin.
...The terrifying thing is that this resembles more a military operation now as you observe ringleaders moving from place to place,” he added."
Two things:
(1) Walz has a desk where bucks are supposed to stop, so, perhaps, he is going to do his fucking job;
(2) Walz is parroting the apparent new talking points put out by the Democrat leadership- an example of which you can see in one of the threads below posted by Inga- that the riots are being fomented, infiltrated, and/or directed (take your pick) by right-wing groups, apparently from overseas, trying to discredit the Left.
I hope Walz does his actual job, but the new narrative is so damned stupid it won't fool anyone.
I am getting sick of Google, Amazon, Twitter and Facebook -- each for different reasons. But there are solutions!
Google - obnoxious billionaire leftists with very handy search engine, though. Solution - use DuckDuckGo's very handy search engine.
Amazon -- addicted to buying books, sometimes use Althouse portal. Solution - try Barnes & Noble, if not, stick to Amazon, never buy anything but books, use Althouse portal every time.
Twitter -- never get account. Only read Larry Schweikart, Trump and Sean Davis at the Federalist. (And Sharyl Atkisson).
Facebook - only post pictures of wife, kids, food and dog. Ignore and/or silently mock all woke liberal Karen friends, who equate their posts/likes on Charlottesville and/or Minneapolis and/or Ahmad Aubery and/or the temporary cause du jour, with the courage of John Lewis on the Edmund Pettus Bridge. Solution: more dog photos.
Carry on, Karen
I agree 100% that Zuck's defense of free speech principles is correct and admirable.
Perhaps he just threw in that "divisive and inflammatory" remark in the hope that a genuflection to lefty orthodoxy would lead more people to take his free speech point seriously. You see that in the MSM all the time. But to Sebastian's point above, "divisiveness" is simply the obverse of the "civility." "I call on my adversaries to be civil, and if they don't obey they are divisive." Two sides of a coin minted in bullshit.
I prefer Larry Flint's take on free speech. In a nutshell - if it does't protect offensive stuff then just talking about freedom of speech is blowing hot air. I am not sure if this line was written for the move, but: "If the First Amendent protects assholes like me it will protect you too." Great line!
A couple of days ago, I thought "What would I do if I was mayor of Minneapolis"?
I would invite community leaders in for a meeting. The 1st thing I would say is "I want and value your opinions on how the city should react to the protests, but understand this. I will not stand by if there is any violence, destruction of property, or looting. This is non-negotiable. The city will use whatever force is necessary to protect the citizens of this city and their property. Please make sure people in your community understand this".
Then I would open the floor to what we could do to allow protests while preventing them from escalating into violence, destruction of property, or looting.
In other words, what Trump said.
Zuckerburg is a lying piece of shit.
He and his company are banning and censoring content every day.
Their search algorithms are specifically designed to block sites with an opposing point of view.
Zuckerburg does not believe a single word he is saying. He is just saying it to stay out of court and mislead people who use his product.
"I strongly support this commitment to freedom of speech, and I'm glad to see the theory of freedom of speech articulated clearly where lots of people will see it and maybe even believe it."
Zuckerberg has no slightest comprehension of the theory of freedom of speech, let alone any "commitment" to it. His entire existence has been devoted to the monetization of speech. He believes it should be free when it is uttered. That is, he certainly does not want to pay for it. But if it can't be used to sell advertising, why allow it to propagate? Do farmers water weeds?
Why, Mark, you respond like the good, logical lefty you are. You vote for Biden, the grifting nincompoop who is likely afflicted with the early stages of dementia. You vote for open borders, a struggling economy, racial division, abortion and infanticide and organ peddling at taxpayer expense, corruption of the intelligence community and DOJ, anti-Constitutionalism, the Deep State and other swamp scum, etc.
You do that because that is what you were always going to do, Trump or no Trump.
So you believe a liar like Zuckerberg. Good to know.
"George Floyd, an unarmed black man in Minneapolis killed by white police officer Derek Chauvin"
Careful there, Yancey. You are repeating a slanderous allegation.
Personally, I have a visceral and negative reaction to images of Sugar Mountain's face. That's reason enough why I never have and never shall join his stupid social media scam.
Being a "platform" was supposed to relieve him from burden to respond.
We need to come together as a country
No.
Next.
We need to keep being reminded what this man is and who he aligns himself with and those who align themselves with him. - Inga
That works both ways. And considering your pals are currently burning down cities, some might think it would be a good time for you to be quiet.
But you go ahead. Stake out the other side. Align yourself with them, as it were.
Temujin said...
Zuckerberg is right on this.
Good post, except that I can't understand what you find objectionable about any of President Trump's tweets.
Still would like to hear what is "ugly" and "divisive" about Trump's tweets--hopefully from someone who isn't an ignorant, party-line regurgitating bonehead. (That lets Inga out.) And again why "divisiveness" is such a bad thing. I don't to be unified in some big Dem/RINO tent with "liberals" and other State-fuckers, or with Darth Soros (even if he isn't directly behind the rioting), or their shock troops, the people who are looting and burning private property. Let's unite them all on one big ship, and then, as Achilles suggested, ship them all to Hong Kong in a trade for people who actually value liberty.
Just more 'Pablum" for the base! We are experiencing are lack of leadership at the Local and State level mostly driven by decades of Democratic carnival barking about racism, sexism and every other dujour 'isms'. The excuse of the "rioters" is pure B.S. The reason for the initial disturbances mase sense for about 1 minute. But when such gatherings occur and quickly metastasize into violent riots, all of the activists rational is out the door, and people will never again trust the initial rational for protests.
Achilles: "Zuckerburg does not believe a single word he is saying. He is just saying it to stay out of court and mislead people who use his product."
Agree that Zuckerburg does not believe a single word he is saying, but the reality is its the users themselves that are the product.
Being a "platform" was supposed to relieve him from burden to respond.
Then they started editorializing and publishing, and they can't abort the baby and keep her, too.
Facebook is currently in BS fact check mode and I expect it will get worse, not better.
They're waiting for an administration sympathetic to their religious philosophy.
Wait 'til some "protestors" get near Zuck's walled compound.
Blackwater will have a new contract,
A theory of free speech you "strongly support" but do not follow when it applies to you. That is typical (of you and of people in general).
Didn’t Trump say something about bringing a gun if they have a knife? Definitely trump, because he’s a bad person stoking the fires of Racism with talk like that. Yeah.
Unfortunately, all I heard (read) was that Zuckerburg “isn’t going to stifle horrible nasty opinions, which are fake, anyway, but I could if I wanted to, and here’s some platitudes to keep you proletariat in place, and knowing who is really in charge”.
"Well done is better than well said" - BFranklin
If Zuckerberg sounds cagey and dishonest, it's because there are things that will be posted that it will be necessary to delete - calls for violence, outright lies, etc. That's going to be true of any site like Facebook or Twitter. Zuckerberg draws the line at a different place than Dorsey and Twitter, but lines do have to be drawn somewhere, and for Facebook, Zuckerberg will be the one drawing them.
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