From "Curtis Sittenfeld’s New Book Imagines if Hillary Never Married Bill/Rodham isn’t as satisfying as her novel about Laura Bush, but together, they’re both richer" (Slate).
The answer to that question — "How could we hope to truly know such a person?" — should be: by reading a 400-page novel published by Random House that purports to explore precisely this topic. Characters in novels tend to go through "conditions most of us could not endure or even really imagine," and it's up to the novelist to make the character comprehensible and excitingly interesting. The question isn't whether it's Hillary Clinton's fault that we don't know what she's really like inside, but whether it's the author's fault that there isn't a compelling imagined inner life.
Here's the book, in case you want to read it. I was interested in it because someone I respect recommended it. The publication date is May 19th, so I assume this person had an advance copy. I hope. It's awful when authors promote each other's book based on their friendship or their interest in mutual promotion. The author's allegiance should be to the reader.
AND: Does this book rely on the premise that Hillary Clinton married Bill Clinton simply out of "passion"? I've always thought she figured that the partnership was a good bet in the achievement of her worldly ambitions. It's so soppy not to give her that.
ALSO: I'm reading "Hillary Never Married Bill/A new novel hypothesizes a different history — and future — for a trailblazing woman" by Frank Bruni (NYT), who interviews the author:
I mentioned her fixation on first ladies and asked whether there might be Michelle Obama and Melania Trump novels to come. No, she said, suggesting that Michelle’s 2018 memoir, “Becoming,” was so openhearted and definitive that it didn’t leave much room for a novelist.So what does Sittenfeld "yearn to explore"? The next thing in this piece is:
And Melania? Sittenfeld declined to say much about the current first lady to me, but she previously told The Guardian that she didn’t “see her as someone whose consciousness I yearn to explore.”...
There are whole facets of public figures’ humanity — of the Clintons’ humanity — that we don’t have access to and can’t explore... Indulging in guesswork, [Sittenfeld] visited interiors and rummaged around in intimacies that are otherwise off limits.And the piece began with the line "Curtis Sittenfeld likes to imagine the sex lives of presidents." I'm going to say Sittenfeld doesn't want to live vicariously within the persona of Michelle Obama or Melania Trump because she's not turned on by imagining having sex with either Barack Obama or (especially) Donald Trump.
“Falling in love and kissing another person — that’s what you read novels for, and that’s what you write novels for,” she said. “I certainly read a lot of nonfiction and respect it, but even the most personal profile of a public figure is not going to have almost anything about them kissing or feeling attracted to someone or maybe having sex and feeling awkward.”
90 comments:
Trump did endorse Hillary.
A novel reveals far more about the novelist than her subject.
“The pleasure you take in each other’s company will be obvious,” she tells herself, “but, crucially, while this pleasure will make you feel as if you’re in love with him, it will not make him feel as if he’s in love with you. He might remark on how much he likes talking to you, but there will be girls he wants to kiss, and you will not be one of them.”
As interior monologues go, it isn't a patch on Molly Bloom.
So once again we’re told it’s not Hillary's fault.
She fired the White House travel staff, ran a secret cabal to remake the healthcare system, denigrated cookie-baking mothers, ran a private e-mail server, and mishandled classified information because, Bill Clinton.
#WomanPower
In every universe where Rodham never meets Clinton, Willie Brown is elected President.
One more book I won't read. Yawn.
Bill Clinton had star power.
He was the Rhodes scholar, not her. He had the charisma, he had the friends.
What's puzzling is why he married her, and not some heiress, or, as above, someone much more spectacular. Heck, even John Kerry managed that.
I suspect it may have been because of some sense of social inferiority left over from his humble origins.
Its also possible that Bill cheated on her so much in part because of her own unwillingness or inability to satisfy him. A spectacular wife, or a better wife, or maybe just a more normal woman, may have been able to do that, for a while anyway. There is some testimony from his ex-mistresses that supports that.
As a white woman in the Democratic Party, who’s not particularly good looking, not well-married, doesn’t come from a rich and connected family, and by the author’s choices is not a firebrand, we’re supposed to believe she’s not only going to be a US Senator but her party’s nominee for President?
Does gravity still exist in this alternate world?
Or have the laws of physics also been rewritten?
Blogger buwaya said...
Bill Clinton had star power.
He was the Rhodes scholar, not her. He had the charisma, he had the friends.
What's puzzling is why he married her,
-----------==============
could she have blackmailed him up to the altar?
Sittenfeld appears to a writer who has not mastered characterization. Hillary Clinton is who she is and has done what she has done because of the profound defects of her soul. Her association with Bill Clinton is mere detail. Without him, she would have found another way to damn herself.
You invested so much if your career, your politics, your emotional self in this ordinary trailer trash sociopath. Your investment was so deep, so all in. Now that your life is winding down your subconscious recognizes what a waste it was. Craps. Do you try to maintain the charade? Drown in a mountain of Titos handles?
...or compile a revisionist fiction and make it feel all better?
There's a special place in Hell for Clintonists who support each other.
A book about how she would be president is a sop to Hillary's ambition to be president, whether soppy or not.
Breakout session topic- Larger Fiction: Passion for Each Other or pro-Trump Russian Interference
Wash This Book: The True Story of the Clinton Marriage
maybe "Wipe this Book: with Bleach"
There is indeed such a thing as sexual market value (SMV).
This is a compound of physical attractiveness, youth, social status, charisma, intelligence, and presence or absence of at least some character defects, as well as character intangibles, such as self confidence. The mix varies between men and women.
This creates a mating hierarchy and people tend to pair off, generally, according to their positions in this hierarchy, or according to that part of the total human selection available to them. A young man like Bill Clinton had, in his day, tremendous SMV, on the face of it. He was in the heart of the top American sexual marketplace, where the smartest, most wealthy and aristocratic, and most beautiful, aspired to compete He had access to a superb selection of correspondingly high SMV women.
This leads to questions.
I feel that I'm not in the target audience for this book....I did read the bio of Mickey Mantle. Mickey openly cheated on his wife and probably shared a few of his std's with her. Nonetheless, she stuck with him. She made the not irrational choice that being the current wife of Mickey Mantle offered more perks than being the ex-wife of Mickey.....I would love to know the secrets and dynamics of the Clinton marriage. Maybe it's not all a Faustian bargain, but there's no way she was Eleanor to Clinton's FDR. I admire how imaginative Democrats are able to create scenarios where she's a good person. Perhaps a scifi or fantasy novel could tell such a narrative, but it's not credible on this earth
I will say discussion of the beard arrangement is usually focused on Hillary's ambition but back in the day there wasn't much hope for a bachelor tomcat President either.
Or Senator Rodham gets indicted for insider trading and mail fraud.
Life is stranger than fiction, so who knows, but I just don't see the specialness of Hillary Clinton. Except perhaps for her ruthless, unscrupulous ambition. But then again how uncommon is that?
I don't think she would have had a national political career short of her marriage to Bill Clinton however much she wanted it.
It's not that she doesn't fit in to the Democratic Party. No, she fits well and her ethics or lack of ethics or her intelligence or lack of intelligence do not stand out.
But there are millions and millions of other people whose qualifications and achievements were just as good as those of Hillary Clinton's during that time.
Hilary seems to have been delegated to handle Bills dirty work.
He was the sales department and production facility (of favors and influence and power in general). She was accounts receivable and collections, and all the other filthier minutiae.
That seems to have been the domestic split. in Arkansas anyway.
Hillary Clinton lost the presidency to Donald Trump. What does that say about her political abilities?
Are there really people in this world (Ann?) feeling like more Clinton because one can never get enough Clinton? Its not like they leave a nice smile or good taste in the mouth (sorry for that) when they leave a room. They leave chaos wherever they go. Corruption. Disgrace. Disregard for the truth. And their most noble causes (for both of them, by the way) involve themselves.
These are not the kind of people a sane person would dreamily wish for more nuance, more stories about...(sigh)what if?
Can't believe this guy has a publisher for this.
Can't believe you have someone (who you respect) that recommended this to you.
Can't believe this book brought Carol Mosely Braun back.
Really wistful Democrat shit.
Hillary didn't do insider trading. She did a payoff with cattle futures - the winning futures get credited to her account, the losing ones to the payoff payer. Volitility that's expected in such trading makes it perfect for purpose.
This “looking for role models” and “breaking boundaries of gender paradigms” stuff has been beaten to death for 50 years.
I don’t understand why people continue to pretend it’s new, shocking and dangerous stuff.
It’s the standard BS. Pounded into us relentlessly by the schools and corporation diversity consultants.
When this is advertised as the selling point of anything, I immediately turn off the channel.
Another entry in the political pornography genre. For those who need a break from the videos on CNN and MSNBC.
Political fanfiction is, perhaps, the worst genre of fanfiction.
Hillary isn't that big a mystery. She is an intelligent, ambitious woman who attempted to rise by being holier than everyone else, with a better list of friends than everyone else. Heaven forbid that she should actually DO something. Remember St. Hillary? And that was written by someone who admired her.
One of the markers of a Yale Law graduate in the early 70s: she failed the DC bar exam. Why? Like many Yalies, she didn't prepare because she went to Yale, and how hard could it be? I saw it happen many times to people who are smarter than Hillary.
Hillary is a corrupt crook that we are lucky to have dodged a bullet from. They should have written a book about her life in prison after she got caught instead of the bullshit fantasy book. It probably would have been a best seller.
"How could we hope to truly know such a person, or more to the point, how can we go on kidding ourselves that this is her fault?"
This question has fueled feminist fires and a bajillion magazine articles in the past 50 years. It will be interesting to see what happens to feminism in the face of government-caused famine.
The question isn't whether it's Hillary Clinton's fault that we don't know what she's really like inside, but whether it's the author's fault that there isn't a compelling imagined inner life.
Maybe you're looking for something different than the author is offering.
Several major historical events, most notably 9/11 and the Iraq war, never occur,
Maybe it's just left wing fantasy reinforcement that everything bad in the world is because of Republicans.
Bill Clinton was not an American "aristocrat" when he was a Oxford, no one from the back of beyond of Arkansas in the Sixties was an aristocrat. He was a wannabe arriviste, at best, or as I often think, he was a "Snopes" of the kind Faulkner wrote about. he didn't arrive and then go into politics but, rather, he went into politics to arrive. And the point about him is that he is the one who succeeded at something thousands were attempting. He was promoted by Senator Fulbright as a political possibility and he developed a resume but so did hundreds, if not thousands, over that period. And the same is true of Hillary. Lots of women before and after her developed resumes using feminism as a guide and tried for the brass ring. But it's these two who succeeded or came closest to succeeding and they were married to each other. (When Hillary didn't get the Presidency she and her supporters launched the biggest political scandal in American history. As a consolation prize for not being President, a chance to ruin America was offered and she took it.)
The two are indeed a phenomenon but not one that can be explained using stereotypes. It isn't enough to say Bill was sexy and Hillary had brains and both were ambitious. Two people go to Hollywood and become stars - is that because they went to Hollywood? No, it's because they had "star" quality for their era. Similarly, Bill and Hillary had "the right stuff" for an era of increasing corruption. They knew how to be leftys and make money at it, as actually happens in all socialist and communist countries but as not all leftys are able to understand or acknowledge. The Clinton duo used the left to rise in America, they used Russia after the Soviets to make money, they used China after its rise to make money and rise. What footwork. But in that dance they had to follow each others' moves and, by the end, they were tied together over an abyss, still dancing along a slender plank. And Obama and his two women were tied to them with Michael Flynn the albatross hanging about their necks; and so were both the Russians and the Chinese; all in a long strange bunny-hop line. And then, someone, we don't yet know who or how, made a misstep which, fatally ran, along the dancing line. Don't cry for them, America.
Note that Bill, like Michael Moore, was aware of the increasing probability that Trump would win but he wasn't listened to. And note that Hillary ran a campaign using Big Data and Big Data missed the Trump phenomenon (and hasn't been able to usefully analyse the Wuhan epidemic although the justification for uniting databases including social media in to Big Data is to improve health.) Maybe that was the fatal misstep.
Hillary isn't that big a mystery. She is an intelligent, ambitious woman...
----------------
Nah. She's an ambitious woman, and very well-connected, but 100% average intelligence. Dems like to pretend she's brilliant, that means they are, too, and they like thinking that. If she was smarter, she would be able to hide how much she loathes the average person she thinks is below her, "not our class, dear" folks. Obama at least hid most of his class loathing most of the time.
Without Bill, she would still be the same person, ambitious, opportunistic, ruthless, counting on her connections to stop her from being indicted when she clearly broke the law. People blaming Bill for her loss don't realize we could tell how much she hated us. Why would I vote for someone who loathed me?
Hillary is still Hillary, with or without Bill.
From the summary, Hillary had no children. Unlike Michelle Obama, she didn’t concede and have kids. She was then free to achieve her ambitions.
I’m wondering that if Rodham was a law professor in Illinois, if she meets a certain law professor from Wisconsin.
Is there really a market for Hilary Clinton fanfic? Needs robots or time travel or something.
"Maybe it's just left wing fantasy reinforcement that everything bad in the world is because of Republicans."
-- Strange read, since Bush Sr. gets two terms, and Clinton got zero. If anything, it seems to low-key be admitting that Clinton shares some of the blame.
Remember when you learned there are people who collect bits of flotsam or clown figurines? Then you realize there’s a group of tiny clown collectors who swap stories and rare clowns and hold conventions and there’s even a novel written by one about tracking down some tiny clown like it’s a fucking Homeric epic. At such times you laugh and shake your head and wonder how anyone ever found such a thing interesting at all. And you wonder who ARE these weird people?
That’s how I feel about alt-history people. And twisted freaks who are so into Hillary that they write their own personal alt-history about her are from a planet that collects miniature John Wayne Gacys and thinks THAT is normal. Enjoy!
So wait, Hillary Clinton with minimal personality or retail politics character and without enormous name recognition, decades of built up donors to her family, and without having run by carpetbagging to a basically uncontested senate seat handed to her by her party....
She still becomes the party's candidate?
Clinton was a horrible politician and a horrible secretary of state. Look at her freaking record:
- Total lightning rod in the white house
- Practically given a senate seat, accomplished nothing in eight years, ran for President
- Lost to a political neophyte Senator, gets handed SoS position as a sop (remember Obama picked Biden for VP after all)
- Has a horrible tenure as SoS - major initiatives were major global failures (i.e. Libya)
- Runs again against Trump - another neophyte - loses again
In other words, she has internal democratic party power but does not have either political nor executive success. EVER.
And she's tainted by scandal. EVERYWHERE.
And somehow she remains a "hero" to a meaningful portion of the population. If ever there was proof that results don't matter to some people....Hillary Clinton is it.
I dont really enjoy fantasy books. I read the Lord of the Rings trilogy when I was young and I've read some of the Ender series but it's not something that really cries out to me. But at the very least you have to make the protagonist appealing
Bill was Ivy League, Oxford, and a Rhodes scholar (of which only 32 are given annually in the US).
And unlike most of the nerds with all that on their CV's, he wasn't a nerd.
Thats aristocrat enough in that place and time.
He very likely had his pick of paths to something fairly grand.
I have always found the phrase “someone I respect [did X]” off putting. Everyone is worthy of respect, at least until they do something to lose your respect. Even then there is inherent value to human life that is worthy of some measure of respect. Personally, I prefer the phrase someone whose opinion I value said X.
I enjoyed her novel Prep at the beginning, but it annoyingly and embarassingly fell apart by the end. I remember parts of it, but it's jumbled up with Marisha Pessl's school novel.
Hillary Rodham was a top girl at Wellesley, something not easy to be. I don't mean to say that she was the smartest woman at Wellesley, but she was the one who impressed her fellow students, and maybe the teachers as someone who seemed like she was going somewhere. But how many other top girls at Wellesley have achieved lasting fame on their own?
No, she rose as part of a couple who complemented each other. Hillary could have become a prominent lawyer or law professor, but she was too (let's make this our word of the day) rebarbative to have a successful political campaign on the statewide, let alone nationwide, level.
Bill Clinton probably could have weathered any crisis in Arkansas, but he wouldn't have succeeded on the national scene without Hillary. She lit a fire under him. Her ambition kept him moving when he would probably have sunk into hedonistic oblivion. And a Southern governor benefited immensely from having a Northern wife who was more acceptable in liberal circles.
Pete Buttigieg, Rhodes Scholar, on the way to great things.
But not really presidential material.
Am I allowed to say that he should have picked a better wife?
This is the same sittenfeld who painted laura bush as some kind of monster if you read between the lines.
The other was wesley clark and robert b reuch that year,
"D.D. Driver said...
Is there really a market for Hilary Clinton fanfic?”
I suspect that this is more anti-Trump frustration than anything else. If HRC had lost to Jeb!, no one would be giving her another thought.
I just finished Zoe Satchel’s ‘The Golden Door’. She went to all the right schools.
‘Donald Trump’s hard-driving, brusque father and over-protective mother steer Donald towards the military, when they notice increasingly reckless and aggressive behavior in the home. From military school onwards, the young man finds courage, discipline and leadership, eventually serving a couple of tours in Afghanistan. His father suddenly fallen ill, and with a lot of his pussy grabbing days behind him, Donald turns to the family business Meeting the exotic Mara at an after party, Donald falls hopelessly in love, raising three girls and becoming a big player in Manhattan real estate and finance.
After the 2015 catastrophe, family-man Donald runs for mayor against the fatherless Communist sympathizer Chuck Blasey-Ortega, winning in a landslide. New Yorkers are fed up with the bureaucratic identity tyrants bungling everything at City Hall, and the self righteous radically chic moral prigs on the Upper East Side, for starters. Donald appeals to all New Yorkers with lower taxes, less regulation, advanced aptitude testing and school choice.
Stoically, an aging Donald pays little attention to his image, but never forgets a face. He meets his obligations to God, family, his brothers, his business partners, his city and his country by getting back to foundations.’
-‘I smell a Pew-litzer.’
‘Crisp prose and powerful narration make this a tour de force.’
‘The Golden Door made me cry out in ecstasy. Zoe Satchel is a National Treasure.’
Without Bill, She could have been Jamie Gorelick.
Hillary is a no talent, nothing who advanced on her husband's coat-tails. She is the very antithesis of a feminist. Michelle Obama is cut out of the same clothe. Ironically feminists demonize real feminists like Lady Thatcher who did it on our her. Her husband, Dennis, was very much in the background. Inga is too stupid to see the difference
could she have blackmailed him up to the altar?
Can you blackmail the shameless?
I have made the comparison between trump and the hero of Charles mccarry's better angels and Shelley's heart, the one written 40 years ago, another about 25 years ago, he was a businessman, who served a term as governor of Pennsylvania, he is unmarried but has a significant other, by that era around the year 2000, the media environment is decidedly inhospitable to non progressives, in that era there is a group the eye of gaza, with a deep strain of islamist nihilism, they strike in many places including the supreme court, Mallory is able to replace two leading liberal jurists, this stirs the hornets, because of a scandal in the 80s, the outfit, is reorganized into the fis a whole new security service, which operates under commercial cover, they are decidedly hostile to Mallory, there is a quintessential lefty broadcaster Patrick graham, the media uses the commotion of the eye of gaza, as a pretext to deny Mallory a second term, they elect a nullity, lockwood who pushes all their progressive wish lists, they still are not satisfied,...
the eye of gaza has become more brazen, in the following four years, they are implanting their devices inside persons who detonate themselves, they acquire two nuclear weapons, one fis agent, of the illustrious hubbard clan, arranges an assasination attempt against the patron of the eye of gaza, a sheikh named ibn awad, who lives in a thinly disguised gulf state called Hagreb, there is a coverup of the assasination, which unravels, the bombs are still in play,
certain machinations, arise that force the fis to fix the elections, because Mallory challenges the fis's prorogatives, they use computers,
tedious Hillary obsession.
When will the book "Hillary goes away to die" become a reality? I'd buy that.
Oh Dear God. BleachBit says it all. Like all obsessions, the one the Left has with Hillary is tedious and beyond.
In the absence of a Clinton candidacy, George H.W. Bush is elected to a second term in 1992, followed by a one-term Jerry Brown presidency and two terms of John McCain. Several major historical events, most notably 9/11 and the Iraq war, never occur, leaving Sittenfeld’s Hillary untainted by a Senate vote supporting the latter.
Elect McCain and he would have found a way to get us into war. One can assume Jerry Brown wins because the author lived in California for a while. The bloom was off the rose when he ran in 1992 and he wouldn't have looked better even in 1996, even in Fantasyland.
She dirties her hands a bit—running against Carol Moseley Braun in a Senate primary and accepting the endorsement of Donald Trump—but the character Sittenfeld makes of this alternate Hillary remains essentially static: cautious, mildly humorous, committed to public service, but no firebrand. Above all, she is diligent, a grind. The weakness of Rodham is this lack of any significant transformation.
Plotting wasn't Sittenfeld's strong point to judge by her first novel. And you could make the case that alternative history and fan fiction are like other forms of genre fiction, more about the basic concept than about character development. Even in our world, Hillary doesn't seem to have changed or grown much, but that opens up the question of how much people do change.
Bill Clinton lost a governor's race in 1982 and he "changed" and "grew." But did he really? Having polio certainly changed FDR. But how much and how deeply? I don't know the answers, but it would be nice if a novelist did. Also nice if she chose a better subject for her novel, somebody who really did change or grow in some way
Ambition is the soul of public men (and women). Perhaps that doesn't leave room for much else. Or maybe it's that we see them so much as public figures that their feelings and personal struggles don't seem that significant, or that if you don't have sympathy or empathy for them you overlook their internal struggles. But somebody who really did have such strong feelings for HRC ought to have been able to make her a more compelling character.
Would she still be a nasty piece of work with an insufferable voice?
they give her props because she upbraided ed brooke in her commencement speech, then she went to yale law and pushed for the panthers, then the Watergate committee, then she was on the legal services committee, why would she have advanced any more than any other professional woman in that circle,
A real writer and real Clinton fan would have written a Clinton/Gore novel where president and vice president catch each other's furtive glances and an unlikely and forbidden love grows and blossoms.
Matt Sablan said...If anything, it seems to low-key be admitting that Clinton shares some of the blame.
No, he's saying without W 9-11 doesn't happen. Same bumbling FBI, same investigative restrictions, just no W.
I wonder if Chelsea will buy a book that erases her?
My impression of Hillary is that she was good at learning information. In school, she probably tested well and wrote excellently researched papers. She never learned to think creatively or critically - she can tell you the facts of a situation, but not the best way to deal with it.
Trump is the opposite. Sometimes he quotes the facts right, sometimes he gets them wrong. Whatever. The way he chooses to deal with the situation frequently ends up with optimal results. People act as if that happens due to luck. If he's that lucky, he should have been playing in casinos instead of building them.
of course It would have happened the response would hav been very weak as it was in 98, and after the second wave attack, he would have given in to some of the demands, probably cut off israel, abandon the middle east entirely,
what evidence is there of that, the health care task force, which only Elizabeth mcgaughey examined in depth, her approach to the arab uprising, that spilled a river of blood fron Egypt to Nigeria, tell us exactly what are her props,
Mary Beth (the commenter) said...
My impression of Hillary is that she was good at learning information. In school, she probably tested well and wrote excellently researched papers.
During the foreign policy debate when asked about an issue involving a country she made sure she named someone involved like an ambassador or NGO lead. This name dropping was very important to her reflecting her juvenile understanding of expertise. She is very interested in projecting the brand of professionalism, whereas her record (Libya, Syria, refugees) shows her decisions are disastrous.
I can imagine someone writing a book about Bill Clinton. I can imagine someone writing a book about Hillary married to Bill. I mean, a woman who achieves fame and power at the cost of being repeatedly betrayed and humiliated by the only man she's ever loved? That's a great story.
But Hillary WITHOUT Bill? A entitled white feminist who has the personality of a grind without actually accumulating the knowledge of one? Could there be a more boring main character for a book?
Mike
High on the list of things I will never understand: Some people's fascination--nay, obsession--with the Clintons.
This is a book I will never read.
"could she have blackmailed him up to the altar?"
Clinton didn't marry himself.
Well as long as we are speculating:
Bill Clinton becomes a City Council member. Later arrested for misuse of city funds.
Hillary becomes a highly successful lawyer specializing in class action lawsuits.
Oh yeah...no one EVER referred to her as the smartest woman in the world.
So let me get this straight: a reality in which the Bush dynasty is -more- successful sees the Bushes have -less- influence on candidate selection within Republican Party? I despise them and even I give the family more credit than that. What kind of crack is this dizzy woman smoking, anyways? Oh right, the kind that makes Hillary Rodham become -more- successful without a much more talented husband handing her a Senate seat. Newsflash, babes: even Barack Obama started as a state senator, and it took some pretty gross Chicago machine politics to make him win federal office.
Honestly, Professor, if someone you respect so much recommended this clunker, the least you can do is tell us their name! Show us that it was a pity rec, or grubby ass-kissing to power- or a hint that this is a major salvo in the Draft Hillary 2020 campaign. Or is this your passive way of ridiculing them, so you can show them the comments and remark "gosh, what a bunch of catty right-wing bitches mocking your taste in books?" Would you secretly be drinking the schadenfreude, or saying it in earnest?
Oh boy. Let's just admit the fucking truth- if Shelob hadn't married Bill Clinton, and hadn't gotten married at all, all of us writing in this thread would have never heard of her. Her natural attributes are completely unremarkable on every single dimension. At best, as a politician, she would ended up as the head of a school board somewhere, and as a lawyer, probably a small private practice personal injury attorney.
Every time I read about Queen Cacklepants and am reminded that she's still alive and lurking around out there someplace, I think of Christopher Hitchens' prediction, based on the kind of person she is (one of "the people for whom the meeting is never over"--a kind of pre-Karen Karen) that a Hillary presidency is inevitable. And--especially with Biden wandering around like Grandpa lost at the bus station-- I feel a quiver of fear that time may prove Hitchens right.
Does this book rely on the premise that Hillary Clinton married Bill Clinton simply out of "passion"?
Hillary's only passion is telling other people what to do.
If you want an example of a real strong woman look no further than Sidney Powell who took over General Flynn's defense and blew the Deep State and Obama's corruption out of the water. Hildabeast is not capable of carrying Sidney's briefcase let alone handling a big time case like this.
Christopher Hitchens wrote a great expose on the CLintoons: "No One Left to Lie To." Althouse would do well to pick it up and read it.
Bilwick: Hugh Hewitt interviewing Hitchens in 2008:
HH: ...who’s going to be the next president of the United States?
CH: Hillary Clinton.
HH: Oh…because of yesterday?
CH: No, no, I’ve feared it for a long time, and there’s something horrible and undefeatable about people who have no life except the worship of power.
HH: The Mummy is back.
CH: …people who don’t want the meeting to end, the people who just are unstoppable, who only have one focus, no humanity, no character, nothing but the worship of money and power. They win in the end.
HH: Mordor.
"Curtis Sittenfeld likes to imagine the sex lives of presidents."
Hard to imagine this line ever being written if Nixon had defeated JFK.
I wonder how the fictional Hillary becomes a Senator without being Mrs. Bill Clinton first. That's the only reason she became on in OUR world, after all.
CH: …people who don’t want the meeting to end, the people who just are unstoppable, who only have one focus, no humanity, no character, nothing but the worship of money and power. They win in the end.
HH: Mordor.
A better comparison would be the Roman Republic. It took the Roman Republic ~250 years to conquer the Italian peninsula. During that time they lost many times. But their particular style of civic competition always drove them to try again. They never gave up because public esteem or dignitas was so essential to their sense of worth and military victory was the best way to gain it.
Several major historical events, most notably 9/11 and the Iraq war, never occur,
Maybe it's just left wing fantasy reinforcement that everything bad in the world is because of Republicans.
5/11/20, 7:15 AM
No, it's easily believable that the world would have been better off if WJC hadn't been President. Dunno how great McCain would have been, but from 1988:
1988 GHWB
1992 GHWB
1996 Jerry Brown
2000 John McCain
2004 John McCain
Miiiiiiight have been ok. I personally think GHWB's 1992 loss to Clinton was incredibly bad news. Even if he'd run and won in 1996 it would have been less damaging.
What happens in the book after 2004?
Inga are you going to defend the Amazing No Talent Hildabeast who would be nowheresville without Horndog?
We found a way to get rid of Inga. Asking about Hildabeast's "abilities."
Sittenfeld's earlier book was her take on Laura Bush, but she gave the character a new name, changed many details about her and felt free to make up whatever she wanted. It was a novel, not a biography. Trying to write about a real person having an alternate life is very different.
I agree with those who think Hillary Clinton would not have succeeded in politics on her own. I think Bill Clinton would have done fine with a more traditionally feminine wife. He has plenty of ambition -- and many traditionally female wives do too.
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