Althouse: "I invented heavy rock because I never even heard of Link Wray til the 80s - his records weren’t hard rock - the Ventures were heavier than Link Wray..."

May 15, 2020

"I invented heavy rock because I never even heard of Link Wray til the 80s - his records weren’t hard rock - the Ventures were heavier than Link Wray..."

"... No Trespassing by the Ventures is a heavy record - he wasn’t an influence on me... Link Wray played open chords with a slight distortion i used heavy bar chords with distortion through my green amp which I cut the speaker up with the razor blade to get the sound I wanted and no one was doing that then... I’m surprised you would say this. I’m not going off I’m defending me self."

Tweets The Kinks' Dave Davies, responding to a tweet by Stevie Van Zandt that is deleted now.

Stevie appeases: "You know I love you. No offense intended. Thought it was one of those obvious things everybody agreed on. I didn’t say he influenced you. I’m sorry but the attitude that became Hard Rock was born with Rumble. What other instrumental has ever been banned on the radio?"

Dave: "I disagree and I love you too - I’m glad You Really Got Me wasn’t banned."

Stevie tries to make a deal: "How about we give him inventing the Hard Rock power chord, and you inventing the Hard Rock riff? Townshend won’t mind being 2nd. Or 3rd!"

Dave is not taking it: "No - I liked Link Wray after I heard him in the 80s but he didn’t invent the Hard rock power chord - he used open strings - he didn’t use heavy bar chords - heavy bar chords are the foundation of hard rock guitar playing - surely you know. Link Wray used regular E and D open chords - he didn’t use the heavy bar chording technique that I started and which proved to be the foundation of all hard rock guitar playing."

53 comments:

Assistant Village Idiot said...: If you squint hard enough, you can make anything look like anything.; 5/15/20, 8:08 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: I saw Link Wray at Winterland in San Francisco in, probably, 1972 or 73.

He was the opening act for the debut of Jefferson Starship.

The Starship was incredibly, ghastly awful. Pompous, stupid shit. Like the parody band in This is Spinal Tap.

Link Wray blew the place down. Talk about being upstaged by your opening act. He walked on stage in full motorcycle leathers and rocked the joint. His backup band for the gig was Quicksilver Messenger Service.

One of the greatest live performances I’ve ever witnessed.; 5/15/20, 8:08 PM
CWJ said...: Good for Dave not rolling over for Stevie Van Zandt's "sorry not sorry."; 5/15/20, 8:15 PM
stevew said...: I'm in Dave's camp on this one.; 5/15/20, 8:21 PM
J. Farmer said...: I don’t know the answer, but my vote goes to Louie Louie.; 5/15/20, 8:25 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: No - I liked Link Wray after I heard him in the 80s but he didn’t invent the Hard rock power chord - he used open strings - he didn’t use heavy bar chords

Since when can you not have open strings in hard rock power chords?; 5/15/20, 8:29 PM
daskol said...: I'm team Ray, but my brother in law, a composer and musician and student of music, also a contrarian and a bit of an asshole, is always talking about Dave's late 60s solo record that wasn't (I do love Death of a Clown) and talking up the Dave tunes on the early/middle era Kinks, says more or less what Dave here claims about his pioneering guitar style whenever I talk about the poignancy or imagery of one of Ray's lovely little tunes.; 5/15/20, 8:30 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: Link Wray called his style of music rock-a-billy.

He made a great record with John Cippolino and a variety of Bay Area studio guys.

Very simple stuff. Incredibly refreshing in an era when rock was disintegrating into pompous overstatement.

Backwoods Preacher Man is a particularly great cut form the album.; 5/15/20, 8:32 PM
stevew said...: First and second position Barre chords man! 1-4-5 blues, stolen from Robert Johnson and the other pioneers, then electrified and distorted. You know it when you hear it.; 5/15/20, 8:34 PM
JR said...: I'm wondering what Ann Althouse was doing before she became a law perfessor to care about this stuff.

I'm a Kinks fan, BTW.; 5/15/20, 8:35 PM
daskol said...: Supposedly the brothers were recording music together last year. Maybe this publicity gives that ubiquitous rumor a bit of credibility.; 5/15/20, 8:36 PM
stevew said...: Celluloid Heroes an Lola. Epic.; 5/15/20, 8:37 PM
Bruce Gee said...: I saw the Kinks in Germany in 1972 at one of these huge three day rocks concerts put on by the military to keep the GIs somewhat less bored than they might be. The Germans didn't like them but it was one of first performances of LOLA, which was great.
True Kinks story: In 1971 I happened by shear accident to meet and get to know Robert White, one of the famous studio guitarists for Motown Records. He told me that Berry Gordie at one point in the sixties, when the Kinks in Europe were bigger than the Beatles, arranged to have a combo of four musiciians open up for the Kinks on a tour of Europe. Robert was one of them. He said they always set up behind a huge curtain, always with a packed crowd of ready-to-scream teenagers just waiting for the Kinks to appear. They always begged the announcer to change their intro, but it always came out as "And now! Four young men from America! Playing the Motown Sound!!" And the curtain opened. Of course, all the audience ever heard was "And Now! Four young men....." Always a huge deafening roar. The curtain would open. Four black musicians. Sudden, heart-stopping silence. And then, polite smatrering of applause as the adults in the audience realized this was the opening act. "We never did get used to that," Robert told me.; 5/15/20, 8:38 PM
George Leroy Tirebiter said...: Lived in Dunn, NC from 1 to 4 and a half, where the Wray brothers grew up, and my much older half brother filled me in on them when they turned me onto Rockabilly and Chess Records centric Chicago Blues in the late 50s starting when I was 7. And was fortunate to see Link several times, including once in 1961 with his brother Vernon. Tho totally jealous of Shouting Thomas getting to hear him play with John Cippolina (who helped Link jumpstart his career again) and QMS (IMO the greatest jam band ever).

That said, Dave Davies makes some excellent points about his own guitar style. The Kinks were always incredible the times I saw/heard them, from the middish 60s at Dorton Arena thru the last time in 79 at San Francisco Civic.; 5/15/20, 8:39 PM
Bruce Gee said...: I saw the Kinks in Germany in 1972 at one of these huge three day rocks concerts put on by the military to keep the GIs somewhat less bored than they might be. The Germans didn't like them but it was one of first performances of LOLA, which was great.
True Kinks story: In 1971 I happened by shear accident to meet and get to know Robert White, one of the famous studio guitarists for Motown Records. He told me that Berry Gordie at one point in the sixties, when the Kinks in Europe were bigger than the Beatles, arranged to have a combo of four musiciians open up for the Kinks on a tour of Europe. Robert was one of them. He said they always set up behind a huge curtain, always with a packed crowd of ready-to-scream teenagers just waiting for the Kinks to appear. They always begged the announcer to change their intro, but it always came out as "And now! Four young men from America! Playing the Motown Sound!!" And the curtain opened. Of course, all the audience ever heard was "And Now! Four young men....." Always a huge deafening roar. The curtain would open. Four black musicians. Sudden, heart-stopping silence. And then, polite smatrering of applause as the adults in the audience realized this was the opening act. "We never did get used to that," Robert told me.; 5/15/20, 8:39 PM
Bruce Gee said...: I saw the Kinks in Germany in 1972 at one of these huge three day rocks concerts put on by the military to keep the GIs somewhat less bored than they might be. The Germans didn't like them but it was one of first performances of LOLA, which was great.
True Kinks story: In 1971 I happened by shear accident to meet and get to know Robert White, one of the famous studio guitarists for Motown Records. He told me that Berry Gordie at one point in the sixties, when the Kinks in Europe were bigger than the Beatles, arranged to have a combo of four musiciians open up for the Kinks on a tour of Europe. Robert was one of them. He said they always set up behind a huge curtain, always with a packed crowd of ready-to-scream teenagers just waiting for the Kinks to appear. They always begged the announcer to change their intro, but it always came out as "And now! Four young men from America! Playing the Motown Sound!!" And the curtain opened. Of course, all the audience ever heard was "And Now! Four young men....." Always a huge deafening roar. The curtain would open. Four black musicians. Sudden, heart-stopping silence. And then, polite smatrering of applause as the adults in the audience realized this was the opening act. "We never did get used to that," Robert told me.; 5/15/20, 8:39 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: This “stolen” stuff is the most rank bullshit.

I-IV-V is the structure of hundreds of Scots-Irish hymns that predate the blues.

The black contribution to music is awesome, but this “stolen” shit is an idiot idea.; 5/15/20, 8:39 PM
stevew said...: 😊 the structure, sure, the style though?; 5/15/20, 8:42 PM
MacMacConnell said...: Well it was Wray and the Wraymen, but it wasn't Daves and the Davesmen.

Actually, who didn't love the Kinks, Ventures and Wray growing up in the late 50s and 60s?

Not to toot my own horn like Davies, but I pioneered doing Catholic school girls in the back of my dad's Lincoln. What did you folks pioneer?; 5/15/20, 8:44 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: The greatest blues band of the past 50 years has been Hot Tuna, led by Jorma Kaukonen, the lead guitar player in Jefferson Airplane and my neighbor in Woodstock for about 5 years.

It’s an all white band.

Jorma is a contemporary of B.B. King. He didn’t steal anything from anybody. He’s as important to the history of the blues as any musician.

What is really unique about the blues is that it was always about racial inter-mixing. That’s what made it exciting.; 5/15/20, 8:46 PM
stevew said...: Fair enough. How about influenced by, copied? Each of the best add their personal style and voice. Hot Tuna never resonated with me, but Mayall and his proteges did and do. Saw Walter Trout last year, you can hear the influences in his playing so clearly.; 5/15/20, 8:54 PM
Daniel said...: "...at one point in the sixties, when the Kinks in Europe were bigger than the Beatles..."
There was never a time when Kinks were by any measure 'bigger' than the Beatles.; 5/15/20, 9:04 PM
john said...: I'll never listen to Van Zandt again after what he did to Adriana.; 5/15/20, 9:06 PM
daskol said...: I don't know, I've heard that too--and that they were all but banned from America for some of their domestic troublemaking, which allowed the Beatles to complete the invasion, while the Kinks stayed in Blighty and Ray wrote every more English tunes until finally coming to America towards the end of the decade. It may be legend, but as a fan it's legend I like.; 5/15/20, 9:08 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: I have a Sammy obsession and I just can't shake it.; 5/15/20, 9:09 PM
LordSomber said...: Missed my one chance to see Link Wray, but did see Davie Allan, to whom the Torch of Fuzz should righteously be passed.

The Ventures did do some heavier material later on -- check out Theme from 'The Bat':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OU4_xph2Z8; 5/15/20, 9:12 PM
Zach said...: "You Really Got Me" is the music for one of the most memorable commercials I've ever seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8QKK5IDSXE; 5/15/20, 9:17 PM
Darkisland said...: Why was Rumble banned?

I guess I'll have to consult the book of knowledge

BOK says because rumble meant a gang fight.

I still like it.

John Henry; 5/15/20, 9:24 PM
Mark said...: That's hard rock??

Huh. I always thought of it as something else.; 5/15/20, 9:24 PM
daskol said...: What, like Motley Cru? You must be about my age.; 5/15/20, 9:40 PM
traditionalguy said...: IIR Rock was started by Bo Diddly. The Ventures were just a very good guitar group and In fact were the first that I ever spent money to buy. They were a transition from Kingston Trio Records to Bo Diddly. And Then there were the locals Richard Pennyman from Macon And Ray Charles from Albany playing the Royal Peacock on Auburn Avenue.; 5/15/20, 9:40 PM
daskol said...: ha crue.; 5/15/20, 9:40 PM
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...: I’ve seen both Dave and Stevie play live. Steve is fine but Dave is definitely in G.O.A T territory,; 5/15/20, 9:47 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Wisdom incorporates understanding nuances such as: When one group labels something specific and another group labels the same thing specifically different, based on different interpretations, this is labeled Hardin' Edge and foreevermore will be labeled as such.

Without good faith, even the simplest things aren't achieved without corruption and hatred. Some of us hate the corrupt, because we know what that corruption entails. Things that ought be hated.

See Higher Level Education. They ought all go broke for their power resulting in leading with blind deafness.

Every single last one ought be put on trial by everyone thinking of spending a single dollar, not to mention a $100,000. Oh, and that state sponsered hatred of America ought be considered racist if the disparate impact falls on whites.

No justice no pea pea pea pea pea pea pea pea pea pea pea pea.

I tried planted 'em. They didn't bite.; 5/15/20, 9:48 PM
Unknown said...: I've enjoyed Link Wray for life. I heard Rumble on the radio as a 12 year old and was as blown away by it as I was with Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry. I was fortunate enough to encounter Link Wray about 6 or 7 years later as the house party band for the KDR fraternity at Colgate. It was probably best to listen to them outside in the snow on the lawn -- his band was the loudest I ever heard at the time. I caught them there maybe three times. Forward another two years and I'm in Washington DC and Link Wray is the house band at the Frontier Bar at 14th and New York Avenue. By that time he was local, from Accokeek MD. I'm still blown away. Link Wray has to be credited with the power chord just off Rumble. But he was a great guitarist and insufficiently appreciated for his other skills on guitar.

I've got no beef with the Kinks. I'll turn up the volume every time I hear You Really Got Me (and a bunch of their other songs, too). And, no, I don't have any experience with a guitar at all. I just like listening to good rock n' roll, and for my money Link Wray is more of a pioneer than Davies.; 5/15/20, 9:54 PM
daskol said...: Link Wray had attitude and swagger, but the Kinks and Dave's guitar were harder rock. You Really Got Me and some of their other tunes and covers from their brief garage band rock harder than pretty much anything until Megadeath or early Metallica in terms of mainstream bands, anyway.; 5/15/20, 9:58 PM
chickelit said...: Jimmy Page explains "Rumble" and the effect it had on him: Link Wray.

Dave Davies sure sounds full of himself. He sounds like the Ginger Baker of guitar.; 5/15/20, 10:19 PM
chickelit said...: J. Farmer said...I don’t know the answer, but my vote goes to Louie Louie.

I second that. Louie Louie didn't have that crisp guitar edge, but it was a killer riff, and it antedated You Really Got Me.

If you want to credit early guitar sound, give Dick Dale his due with his upside down Strat and his Fender amplification.; 5/15/20, 10:23 PM
chickelit said...: Three Accidents That Enriched The Guitar-Driven Sound of Rock 'n' Roll; 5/15/20, 10:25 PM
mccullough said...: So Davies never heard of Link Wray until the 1980s. He’s either ignorant or full of shit.; 5/15/20, 10:54 PM
chickelit said...: Speaking of banning songs, The Kinks were banned from touring the US after their disastrous 1965 tour for a few years. And no one really knows why. Ray Davies wrote in his autobiography, Americana

"Today it is still not entirely clear to me why the Kinks were banned from America. Mick Avory, the Kinks's drummer, possibly summed it up best when he said it was a mixture of bad management, bad luck, and bad behavior. He wasn't far off" ~p. 49.; 5/15/20, 10:55 PM
Moondawggie said...: I do love reading about these first world white people's existential conflicts...; 5/15/20, 11:55 PM
Lurker21 said...: I never heard of Link Wray. Is he the child of Faye Wray and King Kong by any chance?

I always hated people who forced all this rock music trivia on us.

It was bad enough not knowing all the things we didn't learn in school, without people making us feel embarrassed for not knowing all the band line-ups and discographies.

P.S. I did not see the Kinks in Germany, but I wasn't looking for them.; 5/16/20, 12:01 AM
Ken B said...: Ari Benjamin Meyers, Symphony X. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvj77-TVzcI; 5/16/20, 12:15 AM
Danno said...: Rockers that are one step out of the nursing home, arguing on twitter?

Keith Richards rocks! And he shudda been dead 50 years ago.; 5/16/20, 6:51 AM
Carter Wood said...: Razor? I thought Dave punched his amps with a pencil.; 5/16/20, 6:52 AM
Bill Peschel said...: Love the arguing, especially since I got to hear Link's "Rumble" as a result. How else does a culture renew itself?

It's like the kids rediscovering the older music and loving it.

Recently (yes, I am out of touch), I'm discovering My Chemical Romance. If I was a teen in the '90s, this would have been my jam. Instead, I had The Wall, Hunter S. Thompson, dark alternative comics to feed my existential despair.; 5/16/20, 8:04 AM
PJ said...: TFW you invite your brother to join your rock band and then for the next 50 years nobody will shut up about what a genius your brother is.; 5/16/20, 8:05 AM
Ryan said...: JR said: "I'm wondering what Ann Althouse was doing before she became a law perfessor to care about this stuff."

Wouldn't just growing up in the '60s do it?; 5/16/20, 8:41 AM
Stephen said...: Van Zandt has the better of this one. It's the tone and the edgy attitude that matter, not whether the chords are barred or open.; 5/16/20, 10:38 AM
Stephen said...: And I say that thinking that You Really Got Me is way more fun than Rumble.; 5/16/20, 10:40 AM
Unknown said...: Louie Louie, but by The Sonics (the PNW sound turned up to eleven). At 2:05 listen to the solo. The Davies bros were big fans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhM5k_EGzaQ; 5/16/20, 1:32 PM
chickelit said...: @Unknown: I like that version too and it's on my playlist but it's from 1966 (the best year for rock). The Sonics may have been playing it well before 1966 but priority is priority. By then the Troggs had released "Wild Thing."; 5/16/20, 3:35 PM