May 14, 2020

How the government talks to us in Madison: "Please read this Order carefully. Violation of or failure to comply with this Order is a crime punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both."

Here's the Order of Public Health that was put up on the Madison & Dane County website yesterday.
Please read this Order carefully. Violation of or failure to comply with this Order is a crime punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both. (Wis. Stats. §§ 252.03 & 252.25) and a violation of Dane County Ordinance §46.25(1) and Madison General Ordinance §7.05(6) punishable by forfeiture.
Forfeiture!
I hereby adopt the provisions contained within Emergency Order #28, Safer at Home Order, a copy of which is attached hereto and fully incorporated herein, except for the following...
..."attached hereto and fully incorporated herein"...  Do ordinary people even understand what that means? But you're to read it "carefully" and if you fail "to comply," you might be tossed in prison or punished with "forfeiture." Forfeiture of what?  What is my city coming to take from me if I fail to comply with this thing — and all that was attached thereto and fully incorporated therein — that I ought to have read carefully? My money? My freedom? Something referenced in General Ordinance §7.05(6)?

After "except for the following," there's something new about "religious entities," and I pray to God you can read this:
1. Section 13.h – entitled “Wedding, funerals and religious entities” is amended to remove religious entities from the subsection.
2. Section 13 aa is created entitled “Religious entities”. Religious entities must follow section 2.b.
2.b. or not 2.b. — that is the question. I've got to click through to Emergency Order #28 to find those sections, and I see that Emergency Order #28 is the Governor's order that the Wisconsin Supreme Court struck down yesterday. No sooner was the state-wide order invalidated than my local government reinstated it — but not without changing the way "religious entities" are treated.

What is Section 13.h of Emergency Order #28? It groups "religious entities" with weddings and funerals among the "Essential Businesses and Operations" and permits gatherings of "fewer than 10 people." Under 2.b., the requirement is now "to use technology to avoid meeting in person, including virtual meetings, teleconference."

So, just like that, small religious groups lost their right to meet in person and must, at this late date, switch to teleconferencing. And that's what you get when local government takes over. Why did they adopt everything else the State Department of Health Services had in its orders, but change that one thing? They rushed it out on the same day the court acted, but they had the time and motivation to go harder on religious groups? How did that happen?

ADDED: Back on March 15th, I noted (and questioned) the city's treatment of religion gatherings.

144 comments:

Amadeus 48 said...

I think they incorporated Directive 10-289* by reference.

*See Atlas Shrugged

Charles said...

The "How did this happen?' question is easy. They are petty tyrants and want to exert power over those they think beneath them, because they know better. This was a snap reaction and so telling.

tcrosse said...

What are we gonna do now, Calhoun?

I'm Not Sure said...

"And that's what you get when local government takes over."

Not just local government.

"Why did they adopt everything the State Department of Health Services had in its orders, but change that one thing?"

As they commonly say in the Reason Magazine website comment section, FYTW.

Known Unknown said...

Subjects, not citizens.

PB said...

Tar and feathers. It's time.

Greg Hlatky said...

My parish here in Houston has reopened. There are extra Masses, you have to sign up for a time, every other pew is blocked off, there's a cleaning crew after each Mass and masks are strongly encouraged.

These steps could have been taken any time during this crisis. But the archbishop closed public Mass during April.

What His Eminence should have done is tell the civil authorities to shove it. The faithful have attended Mass through fire, flood, plague and war long before any of the United States came about. The obligation for Sunday attendance should have been suspended but every parish should have had public Masses available.

Gahrie said...

How does this fail to violate the First Amendment?

Michael K said...

Seig Heil !

Unknown said...

There is so much about this that is wrong. Despite plenty of time, there has been no public debate. Instead, we receive a series of arbitrary edicts from people who don't understand the consequences of their pronouncements.

Howard said...

Church is a high risk factor obviously it's a two-fer. they just fired based on risk yet they celebrate it based on the hatred of Christians. That's a prog win win

gerry said...

How did that happen?

Your local government is rife with crypto-fascists (what Charles said).

You are threatened with imprisonment or forfeiture for the greater good.

I'll bet the Madison bureaucrats just loved telling religious people how to behave.

R C Belaire said...

You ultimately get the government you elected. You may not like it, but tough titties.

Wince said...

I hereby adopt the provisions contained within Emergency Orders #34 and #36, INTERIM ORDERS TO TURN THE DIAL, copies of which are attached hereto and fully incorporated herein.

INTERIM ORDERS TO TURN THE DIAL?

"How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?"

Bob Boyd said...

They'll take away your Sunday Go To Meetin' clothes if you can't be responsible.

Iman said...

How did it happen? This is how this “type” rolls...

John Borell said...

Keep it up, you petty assholes, and soon people won't listen to you on the things that do matter.

Jersey Fled said...

Dear Ann:

This is what you get when you elect Democrats

XOXO

Fled

Bilwick said...

"Violation of or failure to comply with this Order is a crime punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both."

"Liberal" and "progressive" State-shtuppers must get as excited at reading the above words as I was when I was sixteen and a new PLAYBOY had just come out.

tim maguire said...

It's like reading the tax code, where no provision can be understood except by first understanding these two other provisions referred to in it, which themselves cannot be understood without understanding these other provisions that THEY refer to, which cannot be understood without...forever.

Which is why literally not one person in the entire world actually understands the US tax code. But you may go to jail if you violate it.

Bilwick said...

"Violation of or failure to comply with this Order is a crime punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both."

"Liberal" and "progressive" State-shtuppers must get as excited at reading the above words as I was when I was sixteen and a new PLAYBOY had just come out.

MayBee said...

Unbelievable. And yet believable.

This is how our governor talks about her citizens:
Michigan Gov. Whitmer says armed protests at the state's Capitol over her stay-at-home order have been "calls to violence" adding that if they continue, it could lengthen the state's social-distancing restrictions.

Get that, kids? You keep complaining about being grounded and I'm just going to have to ground you for longer. And I'll tell my friends I have to do it because you're nazis.

Temujin said...

Seems to me the little tyrants are asking for submission but are going to find themselves on the wrong side of tar and feathers. Do none of these leaders know the American people yet?

Original Mike said...

"They rushed it out on the same day the court acted, but they had the time and motivation to go harder on religious groups? How did that happen?"

Liberals hate religious people. And I say that as an atheist.

I have been a bit puzzled by talk on this blog that we were not and are not under orders to stay home, except for essential travel, under penalty of fine and imprisonment. As I read things, we are. I admit there are conflicting orders, such as parks are open, but it is my understanding that we are indeed under an official lockdown. I'll be happy to be shown where I am wrong.

rhhardin said...

The tone changes when it reaches the bureaucrats.

AlbertAnonymous said...

And Los Angeles says all must stay inside for at least 3 more months.

Might as well vote for Bernie. We already accepted the socialism.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

This thing has taken on a heinous life of its own in some places. I hope those of you who live in such places take every opportunity to ridicule, question, disobey, and throw sand in the gears.

And maybe consider how you might be a little less gullible next time when they tell you the sky is falling.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

John Borell said... Keep it up, you petty assholes, and soon people won't listen to you on the things that do matter.

THIS! The more they try to micromanage and exert their inner dictators, the less people will listen. Eventually, the people will revolt. It is already happening.

If you can't be reasonable with people....they will get UNreasonble with you.

rhhardin said...

It's Sieg Heil. German pronounces the second vowel.

Original Mike said...

FYI, Meade. Your email to our alder went out to our neighborhood list server.

Big Mike said...

How did that happen?

@Althouse, you’re the one who is proudly left of center. How about you tell us?

Yes, I’m being snarky here, but only a little. I get frustrated when well-meaning liberals who say they “vote the person, not the party” inevitably wind up voting Democrat and then ask “How did that happen?” when the Democrats — equally inevitably — do something unbelievably stupid. The Democrats are not the party they were back in the days of your youth. What do you not get about that?

MayBee said...

I think we should look at the Etheridge family and remember that cities or states making AA or NA meetings (or severely limiting their size- like how do you know if more than 10 people are going to show up?) are evil evil evil.

Achilles said...

“Please read this Order carefully. Violation of or failure to comply with this Order is a crime punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both.“

I guess it is time for deep thoughts.

Once the train gets rolling it doesn’t stop.

Tommy Duncan said...

Thank you, Sir. May I have another?

Lurker21 said...

"How the government talks to us where I live: "Please read this Order carefully. Violation of or failure to comply with this Order is a crime punishable by fine, imprisonment, or death.""

Rick said...

What is my city coming to take from me if I fail to comply with this thing — and all that was attached thereto and fully incorporated therein — that I ought to have read carefully? My money? My freedom? Something referenced in General Ordinance §7.05(6)?

Your business. The left learned long ago it doesn't need to control the public. If they don't want you to have a Big Gulp it's far easier to ban businesses from selling it. Businesses are fewer, must register with the state, have more to lose, and because most left wingers think of businesses as their enemies there is little pushback when government interferes with their operations.

This message isn't targeted to you, it's targeted to the businesses you might patronize.

Dave Begley said...

Dane County is going to take Meadehouse without due process of law or fair compensation.

Some one should file a lawsuit Friday. Ann, do you know any lawyers? I'd file the case in federal court. Cool courthouse.

Bob Boyd said...

Does anybody really believe all this isn't about the upcoming election?

campy said...

"How does this fail to violate the First Amendment?"

Reasons. Now shut up, h8r.

Howard said...

So you people are afraid of some inept lily-livered liberal Democrats and some silly words that they put on a piece of paper. More fear porn for deplorables. Please keep sending your cash and money orders to Trump international

Kevin said...

How did that happen?

Unexpectedly!

MadisonMan said...

And everyone in Regent Neighborhood is "I approve this message! Safety Uber Alles!!"

When you throw away your freedom, sometimes it doesn't come back when you want it.

Iman said...

How did that happen? Lefties don't "embarrass easy".

Karen of Texas said...

"And Los Angeles says all must stay inside for at least 3 more months."

And they are counting on cases ratcheting up again during the next month after release, with breathless reporting of every death and the concomitant "see! we told you!"; and then that will feed right into the election just perfectly. They need more death closer to the election. These type decisions work to ensure that.

I hope it bites them in the ass.

gspencer said...

You'll come to see the importance of the 10th Amendment yet ("If the power we want is not listed above, then you, government, can't do that!"), and state constitution counterparts.

Madison = Moscow among the Badgers.

Kevin said...

Confinement will continue until morale improves.

rhhardin said...

It gets by on religion by not keying it to the religious aspect but to the gathering in general. When you do this kind of stuff the infection rate is that...

Religious coloring doesn't get you by on what would be prohibited otherwise.

The otherwise of course can always be in question.

Unknown said...

You continue to get the government you elected.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, you do realize, I hope, that the person who wrote that order probably got his or her degree from Wisconsin Law? Did your curriculum not include a course in how to write things in plain English? Should have made the class mandatory, if the school did have it. But probably your faculty didn’t think about clear writing.

Fr. Gregory Jensen said...

As I read the order, it seems to me that as an "essential business" my parish can meet for services. Since our building is less than 50,000 sq feet, attendance exceed 25% of the total occupancy. If I've misunderstood the order, I'd REALLY APPRECIATE being corrected.

That said, the orders themselves are poorly written. Maybe I'm just a foolish priest but I would think it would be better for the new orders incorporate the pertinent text from older orders. As it is now, I had to jump back and forth between pdf's. Did I mention, these orders are poorly written?

Any advice would be helpful.

Fr Gregory

Bob Boyd said...

What is the goal of Safer At Home?
It was to flatten the curve. We now know hospitals won't be overwhelmed.
Is it to keep people from getting Covid until a vaccine or a treatment arrives? That makes no sense and I don't hear anyone arguing that. So what is purpose? Why are we doing it?

"Because we say so", seems to be the answer.

Leland said...

We are planning my daughter's wedding to be held in our backyard in two weeks. We expect a little under 50 guests. I don't live in Wisconsin, but technically our activities would violate orders from our local county judge. The wedding is a religious activity, and I see no reason to suspend the practice of my religious beliefs. I'm sure there will be those that claim the activity is foolish and dangerous, but I'm also sure if I told those people to "go to hell"; they'd miss the joke and act offended about it too.

Big Mike said...

Please keep sending your cash and money orders to Trump

@Howard , first sensible thing you’ve written in weeks, maybe months. Everybody please note that Trump’s campaign also takes PayPal.

Lucien said...

As Ann wonders why it seems to be Democrats who want to reimpose edicts already found unconstitutional. (Don't forget that "Citizens United" started as an attempt to suppress speech that was critical of Hillary Clinton.)

Michael K said...

More fear porn for deplorables. Please keep sending your cash and money orders to Trump international

More trolling from Howard. We feel the same about you.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Without emergency powers it is clearly unconstitutional. What I’d all members if the wedding party are asymptomatic 20-year-olds?

Meade said...

Original Mike said...
"FYI, Meade. Your email to our alder went out to our neighborhood list server."

No wonder I'm getting so many replies complaining about my lack of civility for using the term "alderman," apparently a micro-aggression which triggers my trans-sensitive neighbors. I apologized (without even asking if I may still use the term "woman." Shouldn't it be "woperson?" Or simply "wo?")

Narr said...

It's Kafka's world, and has been for decades. Governess Gretched Whipmore is just a symptom in the executive branch of a state, but there are analogs in legislatures and judiciaries--symptoms and manifestations of intellectual and political bankruptcy behind a screen of frantic regulation because reasons.

Narr
Really good reasons!

EAB said...

Based on your post and no further reading, I would think the forfeiture language is directed at business owners. Disobey and we will throw you into bankruptcy through forfeiture of assets and income related to the (In our eyes) non-compliant business.

AustinRoth said...

My schadenboner remains quite impressive as I contemplate the karma of Blue states and regions getting what they voted for good and hard without any lube.

Rabel said...

"... I see that Emergency Order #28 is the Governor's order that the Wisconsin Supreme Court struck down yesterday."

I thought the point of the SC decision was that it was an order by Andrea Palm, not the governor. Her signature is at the bottom of the linked order.

Tomcc said...

When I was 40 years younger, I knew a few hard-hearted Democrats. They ridiculed the "do-gooders" that insisted that dry cleaners put warning labels on their plastic bags. Those days are gone. Too many Dems are unwilling to concede that we have to learn to live with the risk of this virus. Take precautions and don't be stupid/careless; but no, they are insisting on crushing the economy.
On the bright side, we may succeed in buying a few years until we are killed off by AGW.

Rabel said...

Nobody asked, but my opinion is that the "total lockdown enforced by the heavy hand of the law" people and the "I'm free, white and 21 and can infect anyone I choose" people deserve each other.

Original Mike said...

"As it is now, I had to jump back and forth between pdf's. Did I mention, these orders are poorly written?
Any advice would be helpful."


Abandon hope all he who enter here."

Fernandistein said...

2.b. or not 2.b. — that is the question.

LOL; but ackshully, 2.b is the section.

SoLastMillennium said...

Meade said...

Original Mike said...
"FYI, Meade. Your email to our alder went out to our neighborhood list server."

No wonder I'm getting so many replies complaining about my lack of civility for using the term "alderman," apparently a micro-aggression which triggers my trans-sensitive neighbors. I apologized (without even asking if I may still use the term "woman." Shouldn't it be "woperson?" Or simply "wo?")
5/14/20, 11:02 AM

Should refer to then as "Alderbeing", to honor Hitchiker's Guide if nothing else...

Original Mike said...

"So what is purpose? Why are we doing it?"

To trash the economy and get democrats elected this fall.

Andrew said...

I once had a job that involved reading and researching legislation and other government documents, and I was miserable. So often the governmental language was like this Wisconsin example. It was written as if the intent was to obscure and contradict. I'm a fairly smart guy, and much of the time I couldn't penetrate the meaning no matter how many times I re-read it. Especially if I had to travel to numerous sections and subsections, with the meaning becoming ever more convoluted.

Quayle said...

Many in our political class have shown that they don't understand leadership at all.

They are managers at best, but not leaders.

Managers issue edicts and rules and regulations, and hunt down and get rid of anyone that doesn't follow.

Leaders exhibit admirable personal qualities, teach core principals, and the followers follow of their own volition, willingly.

If a so-called leader is giving unclear or overly-complex direction and enforcing it by edit and penalty, that is the sure sign that they aren't truly a leader.

DanTheMan said...

>>Violation of or failure to comply with this Order is a crime punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both.

As a former police officer, I'm wondering how this would be enforced. Police can only enforce criminal law, which requires a specific violation of a specific statute.
Statutes are passed by the legislature and signed into law.

When you arrest somebody and book them into the jail, you have to specify which statute they have been arrested for. What do the officers write in that box? "Failure to do what the Dane County Commission says"?



Fernandistein said...

"INTERIM ORDERS TO TURN THE DIAL"

???

I liked this part:

WHEREAS, WHEREAS, WHEREAS, WHEREAS, WHEREAS, WHEREAS, WHEREAS, WHEREAS, WHEREAS, WHEREAS, WHEREAS, WHEREAS, WHEREAS, WHEREAS, WHEREAS, WHEREAS, WHEREAS, and WHEREAS, NOW THEREFORE.

Phidippus said...

With Democrats, the solution is always "more government".

Well, this is "more government". And now you're unhappy!

No wonder our Mayors and Governors are so exasperated with us. What a bunch of ingrates we are!

Openidname said...

Forget it, Jake, it's Madison.

n.n said...

Religious entities. One religious entity suppressing another religious entity with political, and, likely, partisan motives. So Pro-Choice. That said, full body condom or stay home and self-abort in darkness.

without even asking if I may still use the term "woman." Shouldn't it be "woperson?"

All socialization must be preceded by completion of a survey and accompanied with affirmative... progressive consent in triplicate.

Original Mike said...

"No wonder I'm getting so many replies complaining about my lack of civility for using the term "alderman," "

Interesting. I have been surrounded by "liberals" my entire life, and still I am surprised at the desire to be aggrieved. Guess I'll never learn.

Bob Boyd said...

Meade coins a new slang term for a transsexual, "alderman".

Who wants to go add it to the Urban Dictionary?

stevew said...

Language such as this, in the order, is designed to confuse and obfuscate such that the majority of the citizens will stop doing most things out of fear that they are breaking the law.

There is a local parish in MA that has continued to offer in person services. The minister has been issued a sternly written memo explaining how he is breaking the law and that he could be arrested at any minute. The authorities even sent the police around to deliver said memo. Services continue, albeit with fewer folks in the church.

Yancey Ward said...

"How did this happen?"

Will break my silence under moderation this one time today:

I wrote a comment yesterday- the lockdowns quickly became a way to humiliate certain people. This rewritten order is proof of my assertion.

GatorNavy said...

Father Gregory Jensen said:

As I read the order, it seems to me that as an "essential business" my parish can meet for services. Since our building is less than 50,000 sq feet, attendance exceed 25% of the total occupancy. If I've misunderstood the order, I'd REALLY APPRECIATE being corrected.

That said, the orders themselves are poorly written. Maybe I'm just a foolish priest but I would think it would be better for the new orders incorporate the pertinent text from older orders. As it is now, I had to jump back and forth between pdf's. Did I mention, these orders are poorly written?

Any advice would be helpful.

My advice is you to visualize Warsaw, circa 1939 to 1944 and you can guess who the Nazi’s are based on their language. The Democrats are parroting the Nazi catchphrase, “it’s for your safety.”

Rick said...

Andrew said...
So often the governmental language was like this Wisconsin example. It was written as if the intent was to obscure and contradict.


Government regulations have two purposes:

1. To give government the maximum freedom to act,
2. Conceal #1 from the public.

So, mission accomplished.

Original Mike said...

Oops. He = Ye

Known Unknown said...

"Meade coins a new slang term for a transsexual, "alderman"."

Sorry, it's spelled Alterman.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

can you pull a 'Clapper' ?

..."I'd be HAPPY to comply...after I've been vaccinated with a tried-and-true, effective, safe Coronavirus vaccine!"

Lucien said...

Having had the experience of drafting proposed municipal legislation, it is my considered opinion that in many places they don’t even bother reading (much less understanding) it before enacting it. (Which makes it the lawyer’s fault, of course.)

William50 said...

It's a good thing they're letting all those convicted inmates out of the jails so they can make room for all those people going to church. I feel safer already.

Narayanan said...

well whatd'yaknow

Religious entities >>>> Germans used word Juden

Looks like 'rule of law abiding Americans' also need official stay at home orders to salve their conscience so that they don't have to come out to protest cattle car trains

Meade said...

Original Mike said...
"Oops. He = Ye"

Ah. Thank you, my brother, that I will now have a little company as they drag me in front of the Madison Speech Grand Inquisitor.

Rick said...

William50 said...
It's a good thing they're letting all those convicted inmates out of the jails so they can make room for all those people going to church. I feel safer already.


Left wing priorities are revealing. They want to control regular people, so threats of jail or really anything are possible. But they aren't concerned about criminals, they seem to believe everyone in jail is innocent and jails aren't necessary.

So they want to control productive people while ignoring others. Is it a coincidence their control is focused on taxpayers?

Char Char Binks said...

Will I be forced to forfeit my iPhone if I don’t use technology?

DanTheMan said...

>> Thank you, my brother, that I will now have a little company as they drag me in front of the Madison Speech Grand Inquisitor.

"When you come to take me away, don't send anybody you want back."

Calypso Facto said...

“It will be of little avail to the people that laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.” James Madison

Sebastian said...

"They rushed it out on the same day the court acted, but they had the time and motivation to go harder on religious groups? How did that happen?"

Progs have been going harder on religious groups since, oh, 1789.

They despise the bitter clingers.

They don't want to let a crisis go to waste.

How did that happen to escape a nice liberal like Althouse?

William50 said...

I was just thinking of a hypothetical person in Cambridge that has the county line go between their house and the neighbors. They're in Dane county stuck in the house under penalty of fine or prison if they leave, and their neighbor in Jefferson county is having a backyard party with 30 of their friends just a few yards away. Now wouldn't that make you feel dandy.

Jim at said...

Thugs. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Still think we're going to vote our way out of this mess?

rcocean said...

Since its the local Government the citizens of Madison should find it easy to pressure their local government to change things - assuming they do.

Certainly, it's easier to do that, then pressure Gov. Evers who probably doesn't care about you think.

rcocean said...

Its too bad we never adopted the word "Verboten" in the USA. Its seems appropriate in this order.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Did your curriculum not include a course in how to write things in plain English?

When I did my Masters one key element that was stressed was the ability to explain complicated technical matters to C-Level executives so that they could be easily understood. That meant removing jargon and explaining what was going on in plain English. One of the ways this was done was by giving me four "memos" each week that were supposed to be from C-Level executives asking me questions concerning some information security issue. I then had to research the issue and reply to the memo with a one to two paragraph explanation. It was some of the best technical and writing training I ever did.

Jersey Fled said...

cities or states making AA or NA meetings (or severely limiting their size- like how do you know if more than 10 people are going to show up?) are evil evil evil.

Interesting point.

Aside from the obvious, our state makes attendance at AA meetings a condition of getting your driver’s license back after a DUI.

No AA, no drivers license. For many, this means no job.

More people dependent on the government for a handout.

Incidentally, I just heard that Pelosi's new bailout plan will be denominated in Bolivars.

hstad said...

Classic example of 'Expert' and 'Government' overreach! Out here in CA Governor Newsom dictated that anyone in a household who's become Covid-19 infected will be force out of that household. Nobody bothered to ask the 'Einstein' Governor whether there where resources to house so many people? Better yet,are the 'Experts' and 'Authorities' creating another 'Nursing Home' situation? Sometimes the cure is worst than the disease!

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

No, we are not going to vote our way out of this mess, because women bought the bullshit and think they’re being protected from the Black Plague.

Original Mike said...

"Ah. Thank you, my brother, that I will now have a little company as they drag me in front of the Madison Speech Grand Inquisitor."

Not to worry. We'll have fun filling out the forms and playing with the pencils on the bench.

Roy Jacobsen said...

Howard said...
So you people are afraid of some inept lily-livered liberal Democrats and some silly words that they put on a piece of paper.

Not fear. Scorn and contempt is more like it.

Big Mike said...

Incidentally, I just heard that Pelosi's new bailout plan will be denominated in Bolivars.

Clever, but wrong. It will be denominated instead in Yuan. ¥¥¥¥

Birkel said...

Althouse:
Did you vote for the tyrant?

The Gipper Lives said...

No wonder the Supreme Court struck down this fascist garbage.

Stephen said...

A first point: they obviously had to move fast to put the order in place.

Why, because the Wisconsin Supreme Court, in a wildly confusing manner, refused to stay its order, even though the Legislature had requested that, and Justice Roggensack, in her concurring opinion, said that she did too--which should have made four votes for a stay.

And because, as I read the news reports, lots of people were coming out to bars where they were not only out of their homes, but not social distancing. A recipe for disaster.

So why the change with respect to small religious groups? Presumably because, unlike weddings and funerals, gatherings of such groups are more frequent and are more likely to involve people from different households or social distancing bubbles. Not an unreasonable change, particularly when you consider that the order was moving from a state wide focus to a focus on a single urban environment.

I wish you'd give as much critical attention to the Wisconsin Supreme Court's deeply irresponsible opinion as you are giving to this necessary and responsible effort to mitigate its bad consequences.

Moondawggie said...


You ask, "How did this happen?"

Well, as a great American once observed, "Elections have consequences. And I won."

Think about it the next time you mark your ballot.

Owen said...

"please read carefully" says it all for me. "It's on you, you fuckng servile moron, to figure out the last implication of what I, nameless commisssar, deign to write out for you to puzzle over."

"please" "read carefully." Please? Really? You buying the false sugar of that faux solicitude? As if some total stranger could care about anyone? And about you in particular? Really? How stupid and desperate for faux solicitude are you?

The bureaucratese is as evil as the consequences in any given instance, because it points not to a specific instance of mental rot and submission, but to a larger climate of it.

Darrell said...

Democrats decide herd mentality is more important than herd immunity.

Color me shocked.

Brock2118 said...

Punishment will continue until morale improves

eltee said...

MADison

TheOne Who Is Not Obeyed said...

"A recipe for disaster." Where 'disaster' = a couple more asymptomatic cases of Wu Flu.

"Not unreasonable change..." Most likely not Constitutional, either. But that's a bonus for the Dane County Comintern.

"Deeply irresponsible..." Only if one considers unconstitutionality and abrogation of citizen's rights as 'responsible'.

Stephen is just fine with being told what to do by irrational government actors. He's a subject, not a citizen. A sheep. A lackey.

Rabel said...

Althouse, you may be misinterpreting this. It looks to me like Dane loosened up the requirements on religious entities from fewer than 10 to this:

Religious entities are required to use technology to the greatest extent possible to avoid meeting in person. This means religious entities should keep services virtual as much as possible to limit the spread of COVID-19 in your community.

If you plan on hosting in-person religious services, do the following:

For buildings with less than or equal to 50,000 square feet of public space: the maximum number of people allowed is equal to 25% of the space’s occupancy load, including staff.

For buildings with more than 50,000 square feet of public space: the maximum number of people allowed is 4 per 1,000 square feet, excluding staff.

Keep people who do not live together at least six feet apart as much as possible.

Everyone who is able should wear a cloth face covering pdf.

Strongly consider not allowing choirs, as this has passed along COVID-19 in the past. If you must have a choir, limit the number of singers, space them out at least 6 feet apart, and have everyone wear a cloth face covering.

Staff must increase standards of facility cleaning and disinfection to limit exposure to COVID-19, as well as adopting protocols to clean and disinfect in the event of a positive COVID-19 case in the religious entity.

​​​​​​​Staff must adopt policies to prevent individuals from entering the premises if they display respiratory symptoms or have had contact with a person with a confirmed diagnosis of COVID-19.

DanTheMan said...

>>"please read carefully" says it all for me.

But they did say "please". Victims of forfeiture won't get a "thank you".

bagoh20 said...

They are too stupid to realize they just blew an opportunity. The Supreme Court gave them an out. They could have said they had no choice but to open up, but now they will be held responsible for all that goes bad from here, and it won't virus deaths that go bad.

Calypso Facto said...

Stephen said:... "A recipe for disaster."

A COVID "disaster" like the in-person voting? Or more like the COVID "disaster" after the Capitol protests?

Rabel said...

Link to the your new orders, Comrades.

DanTheMan said...

From Dane County Ordinance 7.05

Unlawful to Refuse Access for Examination of Health Conditions on Premises . It shall be unlawful for any person to refuse to the Director of Public Health Madison and Dane County and his/her designee, or any member of the Police Department, free access to any building or premises for the purpose of examining the health conditions therein or thereon or to hinder or obstruct the free examination of such building or premises.

So any police officer whose jurisdiction includes Dane County doesn't need a warrant to enter your home at any time, as long as they say they are inspecting for "health conditions".
And, once they are in your home, anything else they just happen to see falls under the plain view exception to requiring a warrant.

I wonder how many people in Dane county realize this?

Jalanl said...

Blogger Stephen said...

A first point: they obviously had to move fast to put the order in place.

So what stopped Governor Tony from working on an alternate plan the past 2 weeks? When Tony issued his order he said clearly that it was only legal until the 10th of May. Then he illegally extended it. So ya think a person with even a molecule of leadership in his body would have been working on an alternate plan in case the Supereme court agreed with him that the plan was illegal after May 10th? While he was pondering whether to allow 4 or 5 people to a drive in theater maybe he could have spared some time to come up with a plan in case his illegal action was found to be illegal.

Rabel said...

"I wonder how many people in Dane county realize this?'

Per 7.04 (4), if the owner refuses to allow such entry "or the building is occupied" they must get a search warrant to enter. I don't think this is especially unusual in city ordinances.

Lewis Wetzel said...


hstad said...

Classic example of 'Expert' and 'Government' overreach! Out here in CA Governor Newsom dictated that anyone in a household who's become Covid-19 infected will be force out of that household. Nobody bothered to ask the 'Einstein' Governor whether there where resources to house so many people? Better yet,are the 'Experts' and 'Authorities' creating another 'Nursing Home' situation? Sometimes the cure is worst than the disease!

There are a lot of empty beds in Cali's long term care homes. Gov Newsom can't figure out why. It's a gift!

tcrosse said...

Althouse gets a hint of what it's like to be pissed on from a great height.

mikesixes said...

"..small religious groups lost their right to meet in person..."-nope. The right is still there, but it's currently being infringed. I hope this will be followed shortly by massive civil rights lawsuits against the city of Madison and the individuals responsible for the violation. As to the motivation, it's progressivism. "I am the State, thy God...and thou shalt put no other Gods before me."

Strelnikov said...

I can see a line of Christians and jews being forfeited but I can’t see Madison subjecting Muslims to that. Or even mentioning it to them.

Unknown said...

What are we gonna do now, Calhoun?

Well Brother Andy, my advise to you is follow the old legal maxim of veritas omnia ipso facto.

What do that mean?

Lie like a fool.

John said...

Haven't read all 100+ comments, but has anybody mentioned the constitution, and I mean the Wisconsin Constitution? I'm off to take a look!

wildswan said...

"Any advice would be helpful."


John Paul II would say: Say the Mass. Make up your mind to undergo no less than what Mike Flynn is undergoing for a secular state. Make up your mind to lead, to be the shepherd. Assert religious rights. Only a clause appertaining to religion was changed - and that discrimination violates the separation of church and state so there's your secular argument for the secular courts. And Catholics know why you or someone else must say Mass in Madison so there's the religious argument. "And let all who have nothing, let them come to the Lord"

I wonder what anyone would say about this speculation about what John Paul II would say?

William50 said...

Howard said...
So you people are afraid of some inept lily-livered liberal Democrats and some silly words that they put on a piece of paper.

Ha...I know right. Unless those silly words on a piece of paper start with the words..Wanted Dead or Alive in bold at the top.

koalabear said...

"And that's what you get when local government takes over."

No, that's what you get when leftist government takes over.

John Cunningham said...

DemonRAT politicians, oak tree, rope. Some assembly required

Rabel said...

I remember when it was popular among some conservatives to say, "The Constitution is not a suicide pact."

But that was a while ago.

Michael said...

Mussolini (may have) said: "Everything inside the State. Nothing outside the State. Nothing against the State." Religion and family are outside the State, and therefore must be suppressed. Also private schools, private health care, etc.

Josephbleau said...

“I remember when it was popular among some conservatives to say, "The Constitution is not a suicide pact."

But that was a while ago.” Jefferson was a famous conservative??

To quote Jefferson “ A strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means.” So the bamboozled citizen finds that his rights are a chimera. Like the French say, truth is what wise men say. Politicians will, under color of necessity, do anything against you, as long as they can get away with it.

PresbyPoet said...

I speak English and "Planner". With a Masters in City Planning, I spent much of my adult life as a guide through the urban planning jungle. I would tell clients there were two invisible signs at the entrance to all building and planning departments.
First:
"We are not out to get you. We treat everyone this way."
Second:
"Abandon hope all ye who enter."

The problem with code enforcement is that you are guilty until proven innocent. Your home is not your castle to the code enforcer. Code enforcement can be a real profit center for cities. Some cities have set up their own kangaroo court code enforcement commissions, where they are judge, jury and executioner.

Also, planning also includes such things as variances, and planned developments where you can violate the "standards" if approved. No one knows in advance what the answer will be. If you ask a planner what is an acceptable building setback, their answer will be "it depends". This is why they drive engineers crazy.

So these Wuhan 19 regulations come under the same "health and safety" umbrella, where innocent until proven guilty is not the standard. This helps explain why they can seem so unfair, and can be abused, since the "opinion" of the "expert", is so important.

MAJMike said...

Our colonial forefathers went to war over a tax on a breakfast beveridge. They would've been stacking bodies and watering the grass with Hessian blood by now.

Nicolas Darkwater said...

We should start having flash mob worship services at the local Walmart.

320Busdriver said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
320Busdriver said...

It makes you question the sanity of paying the extreme property taxes you pay to live in your Madison home.
It just has to.

autothreads said...

What is Section 13.h of Emergency Order #28? It groups "religious entities" with weddings and funerals among the "Essential Businesses and Operations" and permits gatherings of "fewer than 10 people." Under 2.b., the requirement is now "to use technology to avoid meeting in person, including virtual meetings, teleconference."

Jewish communal prayer requires at least 10 men. Orthodox Jews don't use computers and phones on the Sabbath or holy days.

Stephen said...

Jalani

First, it wasn't at all clear that Palm's order was illegal. On my reading, and on Hagedorn's reading (no liberal he, and the closest thing to a neutral on the court) it was clearly legal.

Second, as framed, the court's opinion didn't actually give Evers (a) any time to respond (since the court denied the stay that the legislature itself had requested!) or (b) any way to timely respond, since the only option left open was a lengthy rulemaking proceeding that would have left critical high case counties with no measures of any kind in place.

Third, that meant that the orders had to come from the urban counties--Brown, Dane, Milwaukee. So that's what the counties did, and thank god that they did. Can you imagine what would be happening in Brown County, where the state's highest rate of infections was just leveling off, if non social distance taverns had opened up immediately and without regulation, as the court's order contemplated?

Big Mike said...

There’s new signage at the major entrances to Madison. The signs read “Arbeit Macht Frei.” Must be a tribute to the original German immigrants who originally settled Dane County.

wbfjrr2 said...

Father Gregory, they want to shut down your church, and your issue is you don’t think the order is well written?

Christianity would not have survived with priests like you.

Fr. Gregory Jensen said...

wbfjrr2 said...
Father Gregory, they want to shut down your church, and your issue is you don’t think the order is well written?

Christianity would not have survived with priests like you.

I agree with you. I am a very poor example of a priest and a worse example of a Christian. And you're also right, Christianity would not have survived if it were dependent on priests like me. Thank God the Gospel doesn't depend on me.

But neither does it depend on you or the freedoms or not that we have in America.

Tertullian says that the blood of martyrs is the seed of the Church. If my parish and I suffer small indignations so be it. We will accept them and thank God to have been found worthy to suffer for his name.

I don't know if they (whoever "they" are) want to shut down my church or not and neither do you. If you have evidence of this please, present it so we can evaluate it.

And, in fact, I have heard back from the Dane County department of public health. They were most helpful and supportive of my re-opening my parish. You can find their recommendations here: https://publichealthmdc.com/coronavirus/faqs/current-order#religious

If I may though, since to the best of my knowledge we've never met, you might think about not being so quick to judge a man and his faith by a comment on a blog. Please, at least speak with a person before you public condemn them.

In Christ,

+Fr Gregory

Jupiter said...

Rick said...

"Your business. The left learned long ago it doesn't need to control the public. If they don't want you to have a Big Gulp it's far easier to ban businesses from selling it."

This why the Civil Rights Act was actually the End Of Rights Act. It granted the government control of businesses.