April 21, 2020

"You held rallies in February and in March..."/"Oh, I don’t know about rallies. I really don’t know about rallies...."/"You held a rally in March"/"I don’t know. Did I hold a rally? I’m sorry. I hold a rally. Did I hold the rally?"

That's a little back-and-forth between "PBS NewsHour" reporter Yamiche Alcindor and Donald Trump — from yesterday's Task Force press briefing (transcript here).

Was Trump still holding rallies in March? I had to look it up. His last rally was March 2d. (That happens to be the day when I went to the store for the last time. I was stocking up on food in anticipation of at least a month of seclusion.)

After vaguely wondering about rallies, Trump shifted the subject to actions he took in January. And that was — he said — when Nancy Pelosi was "holding a street fair...  in San Francisco in Chinatown to prove... that there’s no problem." Trump's action in January was to cut off (some) travel from China, but he still gathered big crowds together for those rallies in February and early March.

Trump moved on to the subject of what a great economy he'd built up and how hard it was to close it down. But he closed it down.

Then, in his characteristic style, he ended with optimism: "But you know what I say to you? We’re going to rebuild it, and we’re going to rebuild it better, and it’s going to go faster than people think. I built it once. I build it a second time."

And he proceeded to call on Chanel Rion with One America News, who, I think, can be counted on for a friendly question. Look at this softball:
Going back to the topic of friendship and bipartisanship, Americans with the exception of Pelosi, Schumer and even Romney, Americans have seen an unprecedented chapter of bipartisanship and cooperation on the political landscape. On a personal note, what has been the most significant signal that your relationship with Democrats [inaudible] level have changed for the good of America?
Trump proclaimed it a "great question" and it turned out to be the last question. The answer was long, first claiming that there is "bipartisanship," then veering to Nancy Pelosi, who is, he said, "very nasty":
She wasted a lot of time with a impeachment hoax. It was a total hoax, went nowhere, and that was not good. And Schumer, I guess it’s the same thing, but he sort of accepted it. He just did what he was supposed to do and he didn’t do very well with it.... We could have been doing things that would have been great for our country. They could have been looking into China. They should have been looking into China as an example. A lot of people are blaming the Democrats for wasting all that time because it was during that period of time, as you know, that it was fomenting, but I think we’ve had a great spirit of bipartisanship in a certain way....
Fomenting. The disease, I assume. Can a disease foment? Maybe he meant fermenting. I figured he said "fomenting" because the other day he was accused of "fomenting rebellion."
The country is coming together, and I’ll tell you what, the people are coming together. The people are really coming together. I think you’re going to find that our country is much more unified. I do think that the press, the media foments a lot of anger.
I think he knew he used "foment" wrong, so he needed to use "foment" right. The disease may not foment, but the media can foment...
I really believe it foments tremendous anger. For instance, I’ll be asked a tremendously hostile question from somebody, and then I’ll answer it in a hostile way, which is appropriate. Otherwise you look foolish. Otherwise it looks like just walk off the stage and bow your head. I can’t do that. You know? I just can’t do that. But a lot of these questions that are asked from certain networks are so hostile and there’s no reason for it. There’s no reason for it. We are in a war. This is a World War II. This is a World War I, where by the way, the war essentially ended because of a plague. That was one of the worst ever. They lost almost a hundred million people. But we’re in a big war.
This felt almost uncomfortably intimate, as if he were talking unfiltered late at night just to me...
And I’ll say one thing about, because I think it’s important, the last person, I did it early, but I was the last person that wanted to close down one of the great economic, you can’t call it an experiment, but everything I guess in life is an experiment.
It made me think of that woman who assumed the demeanor of a drunk as she lip-synched to Trump's voice on TikTok (blogged here, the 3rd of the 3 videos). Back to Trump — Trump unfiltered...
So let’s say experiments, but one of the great economic stories in history, I’m the last person that wanted to do it, but we did the right thing, because if we didn’t do it, you would’ve had a million people, a million and a half people, maybe two million people dead. Now we’re going toward 50, I’m hearing, or 60,000 people. One is too many. I always say it. One is too many, but we’re going toward 50 or 60,000 people. That’s at the lower, as you know, the low number was supposed to be 100,000 people. We could end up at 50 to 60. Okay, it’s horrible. If we didn’t do what we did, we would have had, I think, a million people, maybe 2 million people, maybe more than that. And you look it, there’s one country in particular that decided let’s wing it. Let’s just keep going. They are being inundated with death. Now if you take a look at some of the hospitals, where one of them I knew growing up in Queens, and I’m looking at the bodies laying in hallways being brought into refrigerator trucks, the trucks, these massive trucks, bodies going in, multiply that times 10. It’s not sustainable. And many of the people that have this theory, Oh let’s, you know, maybe we could have just gone right through. I was somebody that would have loved to have done that, but it wouldn’t have been sustainable. You can’t lose a million people. That’s almost double what we lost in the Civil War. I use that as a guide, Civil War, 600,000 people died. So it’s not sustainable. But it could have been much more than a million people. I mean if you took a number and cut it in half and half and in half again, you’d end up at 500,000 people, okay, if you want to make a very conservative guesstimate. 500,000 people is not acceptable. Is that a correct sort of an analogy? So I mean I see it all the time. My friends of mine, people that I have great respect for. Well we could have done this, we could have done, and remember this, when we say 50 and they compare 50 to the 35 of the flu, because it’s averaged 35, 36,000 over a 10 year period. It’s a lot. Who would think that? But we’re not talking about with the flu. It just goes. We’re not locking ourselves in our units. We’re not locking ourselves in our apartments and not moving and not touching anybody and just saying, you know, the world. In this case we are, and we’re still going to lose between 50 and 60, but if we just kept it going on a normal basis, which is really the only standard that you can compare it to with the flu, because that was a normal basis. You get into an airplane, you travel to Florida, you go to Texas, you go wherever you’re going. But in this case, if we didn’t do anything, the number wouldn’t be 50 to 60,000, the number would be a million people dead. It would be 1,000,005, 1,000,002, maybe 700,000. It would have been a number in like that, and it’s so important because I see so much. Oh well, you know. You can’t compare it because I’ll tell you what, the people of this country, what they’ve done, they’ve gone out of their had the way they’ve lived. It’s not great. It’s terrible. Maybe the first three days, they’re all of a sudden, you see what’s going on. They want to get going, and I get that fully. But I just say this. If we would have done that, we would’ve lost anywhere from a million to more than two million people. Now, with all of the death that we’ve seen at 50 or 60,000 people heading toward, right now it’s at 40, but 50 or 60,000 people, probably over 54, and [inaudible 01:38:37], but that’s with our guard up. If we took our guard down and just said, “Okay, we’re just going to keep this open,” we would have lost millions of people. Can you imagine? Look how bad it looks now when you look at the bodies, when you look at Hart Island in New York where they have the mass grave, and all of the things that you see, can you imagine if we had the guard down, if we didn’t do anything and we just said, “Let’s ride it out?” It would not have been sustainable in any way. It would have been an atrocity. So we’ve done the right thing. We’ve really done the right thing. And the people that have worked so hard and dangerously, I’ll tell you again, I say it, but I watched those doctors and nurses and medical people running into those hospitals, and they don’t even have that gear on. Forget about gear, whether it’s great gear or not, and we’re bringing in the best gear in the world, but they’re running in with open everything. I mean, the job, they like warriors, the job they’re doing. But if we didn’t do the moves that we made, you would have had a million, a million and a half, 2 million people dead. So multiply that times 50, you’re talking about you would’ve had 10 to 20 to 25 times more people dead than all of the people that we’ve been watching. That’s not acceptable. The 50,000 is not acceptable. It’s so horrible. But can you imagine multiplying that out by 20 or more? It’s not acceptable. So it’s a very good question. I appreciate it. We’ll see you tomorrow. We’ll see you tomorrow.

186 comments:

Danno said...

It has to be the first softball in 3+ years.

Be like a tree said...

I think the purpose of a briefing is that it's brief.

narciso said...

where were the rallies again, anywhere near where the outbreaks were?

wendybar said...

He's doing something now. Where's Nancy and Chuck?? We need their freaking votes because not everybody is as rich as a Politician from DC who owns a winery in Napa. They need to get their asses back to work, or resign.

Sebastian said...

"If we didn’t do what we did, we would have had, I think, a million people, maybe 2 million people, maybe more than that."

Clearly, by alarmist logic, Trump is the greatest savior in American history.

Except that he slightly understates his achievement. After all, we had "real calculations" that the toll would be 11 million. So that's 10,940,000 lives saved.

I mean, it's a miracle there's any nursing home left in these US of A.

Since alarmism has already done its damage, and it's hard to see how Trump could have squelched the panic by his lonesome, might as well turn it to good political effect by imagining how horrible things could have been (what if we hadn't!) and posturing about how much disaster we have prevented by inflicting disaster on the country.

dreams said...

I am afraid that Trump is getting in a rut, he's starting to sound like a born again country preacher saying the same thing over and over and doing it again, over and over...

Ann Althouse said...

The March 2d rally was in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Jamie said...

Just as the Florida beach pictures show that the medium is the message, so too does a transcript. Camera lens type and angle can make a beach look crowded or open. A transcript of a long, uninterrupted answer, presented without paragraph breaks, can make the speaker seem rambling and disordered, whereas putting in paragraph breaks where they would appear if the answer were an essay can make the speaker seem thoughtful and facile with words (if long-winded). To say nothing of lightly editing the transcript to take out the filler words and phrases.

It's a choice, and it's conscious, I think.

Ann Althouse said...

The first coronavirus death in North Carolina was on February 26.

Charlotte is the place in NC that has had the most cases.

MayBee said...

The idea is to make rallies a really really bad thing to have right through November.

Charlie Currie said...

We wouldn't be hearing about Nancy in China Town or the MG in NO, or China parade in NY, if the Dems hadn't started in on Trump screwed this all up from the beginning. It's the hypocrisy.

Yancey Ward said...

Trump's rally on March 2nd was in Charlotte, North Carolina- North Carolina has fewer COVID-19 cases than does Tennessee.

narciso said...

because charlotte is the largest metropolis in that state, other major cities have had outbreaks without rallies,

Gilbert Pinfold said...

Biden held six or seven rallies in March. Of course, those did not actually attract crowds, so OK.

Expat(ish) said...

@Althouse - Charlotte is also the largest (850K or 2X the capital, Raleigh) and most dense urban city in NC.

Probably that plus a gigantic rally was a bad combination. Luckily it's a young city in a young state. Speaking as someone in FL.

-XC

Charlie Currie said...

Can you connect the cases to the rally?

Nonapod said...

At this point it's a little silly to try to ding Trump on supposedly not taking this crisis seriously enough earlier on when pretty much everyone who is attempting to make that argument is on the record for downplaying the severity of the virus at the time. I mean, let's face it, up until late February or early March pretty much the entire Democrat Party and Media (BIRM) were living in impeachment fantasy land. They were all far more focused on getting Trump during the embyonic stages of this pandemic. Now they're all behaving as if history began in March.

Yancey Ward said...

And, I see Althouse has already posted it. The answer you seek is how many of North Carolina's COVID-19 cases went to Trump's rally? On pure probability it is less than 20, and the number that caught it there is most likely zero or one.

MayBee said...

172 Deaths in North Carolina.

When do we start closing down society? What is the number of deaths for any one illness at which we just stop?
I know Althouse was getting ready to shut in, but the numbers she thought were valid at the time were either 3 million deaths or 30 million deaths-- I don't know how to search her blog.

PiningforSilentCal said...

We also know that Joe Biden had one on March 9th in Detroit, including the presence of the now famous/infamous Gov of the State. I'm sure that PBS will ask them about that and whether it led to a greater spread as well.

Let's compare the infection numbers of Charlotte vs Detroit today, or even a month from now.

No Trump fan at all, but these questions are ridiculous. It is a competition b/w Trump and Media as to who can one up the other. I don't understand why the networks don't skip Trump's updates/monologue and show the experts instead. The "give him enough rope" theory probably applies.

JackWayne said...

Don’t look now but your bias is showing. Chanel Rion is characterized as being counted on to ask a friendly question. Yamiche Alcindor from PBS is not characterized at all. Since you are neutrally cruel don’t you think Yamiche should have been characterized as being counted on to ask a stupid/unfriendly/unnewsworthy/antagonistic/choose one question?

mikee said...

Charlotte is the largest densest urban area in NC.
So it makes sense that it has the most cases.

The first Coronavirus death in NC was MARCH 25, per this article in the Charlotte newspaper.
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article241241216.html

C'mon, Althouse. Fake news?

A Voice of Reason said...

By the way, by halting immigration 'because of the virus', Libs who want to re-open borders have to do so by saying Trump did such a good job on the virus that it now safe to let them in.

The man knows what he is doing.

Oso Negro said...

@Unknown - George W. Bush would have profited by continuing to explain the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. But he didn't. It left the space to the Democrats and we got 8 years of Obama who didn't explain the wars either.

Oso Negro said...

@Althouse - are you blaming the rally?

wildswan said...

The greatest thing Trump ever did was to have the courage and integrity to try to save millions of Americans by shutting down the beautiful economy he was building. Showing how America could be rebuilt was his dream and he was realizing it. But still, when he heard from his scientific advisers he shut it all down to save lives. I liked Trump all along because he defeated Hillary and because I came to understand his concerns about unfair trade deals and because of his stand on abortion. And his ideas worked. And he was very amusing as he baited the press. And he was always doing something, moving along toward a less over-regulated society. Make America Great Again - he WAS Making America great and doing that made him great also in my opinion - our great Restoration President. But something greater, in another dimension entirely, was trying to save American lives by shutting down his own dream economy when his infectious disease science advisers said to do it. I won't say no one else could have done this but I will say that it is quite important that Americans receive calm, rational news analysis during this crisis and yet the press has not been able to give up their anti-Trump modality in order to help the American people. It's important that we all pull together but Dems politicians are still trying to divide us even as people who are Democrats and people who are Republicans keep the food and medicine and gas flowing to people who are Democrats and people who are Republicans.

The Communists never changed or modified or temporarily suspended their economic model to help out their people. World War I generals never changed their war-fighting model despite the failure of their offensives amid ghastly slaughters - 250,000 in two days or week. But Trump spun on a dime and changed all his policies, only to save American lives.

Josephbleau said...

Biden had a rally in Philly on March 10, but will not be asked about it in the media.

Temujin said...

Charlotte is also the largest metro area in NC. Odds are that is going to be the largest concentration of the disease in NC. Also, March 2nd is just two days after Dr. Fauci said there was nothing to worry about with this virus.

You see how this goes? This is a first time event for us. There were no rules, no instructions. People moved as they saw fit. The reaction seems to have been slow from the vantage point of today. But at the time it was a moving process- moving at first slowly, then rapidly. It most definitely took on a life of it's own and we were doing all we could to lasso it, even just a little bit, to hang on.

We did that and more once we got our footing. That's as much as I could expect from the government and citizenry who had no playbook for this.

I have little use for Gotcha Journalism like that played daily by Yamiche.

Freder Frederson said...

Where the hell did he learn history? One would think going to a military high school, they would study military history. World War I ended because the German military finally reached the breaking point. It was not caused by the flu but by the British blockade, the failure of the spring offensive, and the injection of fresh American troops.

rcocean said...

Yeah, why does he even waste time DEBATING reporters, because that's what it is. They're not interested in asking Trump QUESTIONS to elicit information the public can use they just want to make DNC talking points and make Trump look bad.

What was yamcichi's question supposed to accomplish? It was just a gotcha question. "Hey, you were having a rally on March 2nd, guess you were wrong and are lying about taking the CV virus seriously." DNC talking point.

According to the CDC data, North Carolina had a cumulative total of 12 CV-19 cases on 3-09-20, that's 7 days AFTER Trump's rally.

rcocean said...

Trump always sounds better on tape than he reads in print. He LOVES repetition. He loves over-explaining things. He loves to ramble. It sounds OK in person, but it reads badly.

Bob Boyd said...

Charlotte is the place in NC that has had the most cases.

Not surprising since it's the largest city. The next largest, Raleigh, is about half the size of Charlotte.

elkh1 said...

He didn't rally in NY, in CA, or in WA where the US epidemic began. His rally was on March 2 when deBlasio told New Yorkers to take the subway to parties.

Still don't think he should endanger himself holding those massive rallies when deranged leftists claimed they would come to infect Trump supporters.

Wilson Carroll said...

Posting a verbatim transcript of an off-the-cuff answer is kind of cheap trick, isn't it? I'm a lawyer, and I've read enough deposition transcripts to know how bad even the lawyers sound "unfiltered."

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Almost everyone was still out doing things in late February and early March. Big whoop. Not a gotcha. I was in Phoenix over spring break, until March 15, and there were a zillion people in town for spring training. Thousands of people, including the old and infirm, at the swap meet in Mesa. Restaurants packed. There had been coronavirus cases at my daughter's school, Arizona State, in January (!) and nobody panicked and nothing was shut down. Trying to fault Trump for having rallies two days into March is silly. Now, a sizeable chunk of the country thinks we have to hide under the bed today, tomorrow, yesterday and forever, but almost no one was thinking that way back then.

Bob Boyd said...

Mecklenberg County (Charlotte) has 1245 cases. Wake County (Raleigh) has about half that, 611 cases. So it's proportional.

GingerBeer said...

Biden's last rally was March 9th in Detroit, MI, a week after Trump's last rally. He didn't cancel his public events until March 11th. Detroit is almost as hard hit per capita as NYC. Going by NYT rules, Biden has blood on his hands.

Michael said...

OMG Trump knew someone died in Charlotte a couple of days before and he didn’t cancel his racist homophobic white supremacist kkk rally?

Iman said...

After vaguely wondering about rallies, Trump shifted the subject to actions he took in January. And that was — he said — when Nancy Pelosi was "holding a street fair... in San Francisco in Chinatown to prove... that there’s no problem."

Pelosi’s invitation to SF’s Chinatown was made on February 25th... Trump said around “end of February”...

Sebastian said...

"Charlotte is the place in NC that has had the most cases"

Due to the rally? Among risk groups? Resulting in hospitalization and death?

We need more cases. Rallies for the young and healthy would help build herd immunity and #ResistTheInsanity.

Of course, Trump himself, being at risk, would need to stay at a safe distance. How about an open-air stadium?

AlbertAnonymous said...

Maybe he needs to do more rallies.

The left thinks Trump supporters are deplorables with a herd mentality.

Maybe there’s also herd immunity?

Just saying...

Mattman26 said...

That’s quite a little stream of consciousness.

Kevin said...

I’m the last person that wanted to do it, but we did the right thing, because if we didn’t do it, you would’ve had a million people, a million and a half people, maybe two million people dead.

Lives created or saved.

He should put that out and watch the pro-Biden/Obama press go nuts.

Freder Frederson said...

I mean, let's face it, up until late February or early March pretty much the entire Democrat Party and Media (BIRM) were living in impeachment fantasy land.

Well, this is just a lie. The Senate vote on impeachment was February 5.

Sheesh, you are as bad as Michael K., lying about things that are easily proven to be lies.

Lurker21 said...


Not so pretty when you see it spread out on the printed page.

Maybe Twitter hasn't been the bad influence on Trump that we think.

Ken B said...

Shorter Trump
- it’s not the flu, that's a moronic equivalence
- A miilion or more dead was not just a scare number
- you need mitigation
- distancing is working

Since each of these is contraverted by denialists here,we may compress further to

Even Shorter Trump
- get a grip you denialist covidiots

MayBee said...

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article241925056.html

Yes this article also puts Charlottesville’s first death at the ending of March, not February

traditionalguy said...

It’s above Fauci/Gates pay grade, but places where the virus spikes happened are all also the locations of International Airports. The delivery system seems to have been release of aerosols at crowded Airport crowds. And that effectively spread the virus by targeting lines of passengers transferring on to the flying Subway Tubes with wings but many stayed at the first City.

jeremyabrams said...

Biden did six rallies in March.

Calypso Facto said...

tradguy said ..."that effectively spread the virus by targeting lines of passengers"

Yet another reason to hate the TSA. Considering how many travelers may have gotten COVID while standing in the security line, the TSA is probably now a net negative on lives saved by the agency.

MayBee said...

Sorry I mean Charlotte’s first death not Charlottesville Charlottes first death was at the end of March not February

Ann Althouse said...

Trump could have done more and done it sooner. That’s just a fact. You can still praise him for doing as much as he has done.

Nonapod said...

For clarities sake, according to the Covid Tracking Project the first case in North Carolina was on March 4th and the first death occured on March 25th.

DanTheMan said...

>>Trump could have done more and done it sooner. That’s just a fact. You can still praise him for doing as much as he has done.

Isn't this generally true of just about everything all the time? And thus isn't that a ridiculous standard to hold someone to?

MayBee said...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.newsobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article241241216.html

Yes this article too puts the first death in The state of North Carolina at the end of March

Alison said...

According to this link Biden held 8 rallies in March.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2020/04/21/white-house-reporter-forgets-that-biden-also-held-rallies-in-march-n2567298

Achilles said...

Ann Althouse said...
The first coronavirus death in North Carolina was on February 26.

Charlotte is the place in NC that has had the most cases.


As of today North Carolina has 233 deaths "attributed" to corona virus.

23 deaths per million people.

Your attempt here is pathetic.

Ken B said...

“Trump could have done more and done it sooner. That’s just a fact. You can still praise him for doing as much as he has done.”

Yes indeed. No one in the west really did well, except Tom Cotton, who was mocked. Almost no one did much before late February. Trump did a bit before then, and the Democrats fought what he did. It’s crazy to believe any Democrat would have done more. But it’s not crazy to believe that we collectively underestimated this early on. Taiwan did not, so it is possible to do better.

MayBee said...

Althouse- it’s always true that someone could do more sooner. Does it factor into your statement at all that the first Covid death in NC was *not* in February before the rally?

Achilles said...

Ann Althouse said...
Trump could have done more and done it sooner. That’s just a fact. You can still praise him for doing as much as he has done.


No he couldn't have.

This "pandemic" is a sham. The numbers were never there. The numbers that are being reported now are admittedly fraudulent counting "assumed" and "presumed" cases. It is clear that millions of people have had the virus and the death rate is in the flu range. We even have a much smaller group of susceptible people than die to the flu.

But Trump is dealing with a traitorous and dishonest media and democrat opposition.

He is also dealing with a populace of panicky sheep who don't deserve their freedom and choose to believe people who are obviously lying.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

I don't recall Nancy Pelosi wasting any time on the impeachment. She was ready to put it in her desk drawer. It was Trump and the Republican Senate that insisted on the trial.

Browndog said...

Biden had many rallies in March.

March 9th, he held a rally in a H.S gym in Detroit. All the cool kids were there-

Karen Whitmer

Senators Peters and Stabenow

Detroit mayor Duggan

Kamala Harris

Corey Booker

___

Biden held several rallies in March.

Why is this an issue for Trump?

I'm Full of Soup said...

Penna Covid 19 deaths jumped from 836 to 1204 in one day. Someone is cooking the books.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

Doughnut Girl’s question implies that Trump had multiple rallies throughout March, when he only had one on the second. She can be relied on to ask all the special questions.

brylun said...

Dear Ann, With your perfect 20/20 hindsight, please tell us what more President Trump could have done any earlier (referring to your post at 11:33am)?

Known Unknown said...

The EMR (Effective Mortality Rate) in North Carolina is 0.0017%. One hundred seventy-nine deaths out of 10.49 million people. The rally is immaterial

Achilles said...

Left Bank of the Charles said...

I don't recall Nancy Pelosi wasting any time on the impeachment. She was ready to put it in her desk drawer. It was Trump and the Republican Senate that insisted on the trial.


You are lying to yourself and creating an alternate reality that does not have any grounding in reality.

Known Unknown said...

"Trump could have done more and done it sooner."

I await specifics.

Nonapod said...

Someone is cooking the books.

I can't speak for other states but I know that it's a fact that they're counting deaths in New York that only may have been due to coronavirus. As far as I can tell this basically amounts to counting anyone and everyone who died of pneumonia as a virus fatality whether or not they actually tested positive for Covid-19.

I'm Full of Soup said...

Even using the cooked number of deaths in Penna of 1204, the deaths amount to less than 100 per million people or .0001.

MayBee said...

Now Whitmer has hired a progressive voter data base firm Every Action VAN to do contact tracing in Michigan.
(Their website advertises them as progressive, trusted by SEIU, Planned Parenthood, and NARAL)

Nonapod said...

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that if someone tested negative and then died from pneumonia that they're being counted as a positive, just those that died of pneumonia before being tested.

Sebastian said...

"Trump could have done more and done it sooner."

So could you. For example, you could have done more to tamp down The Panic, treating all the outrageous doom scenarios with your usual skepticism, questioning authority instead of telling the deplorables to "follow the experts," urging Trump to #ResistTheInsanity more than he was able to do.

But Trump did the essential things -- stopping flights from China and Europe -- and it's hard to see how he could have done it sooner, considering that even when he did it most media and Dems opposed it, with Nancy trying to ban the ban.

It's true that Trump could have done more himself to question the experts and their BS numbers and to tell the panicky public to get a hold of themselves, but I don't think that was politically feasible, with the Althouses of America worrying about 11 million.

MayBee said...

The first Coronavirus death in the United States was February 29
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/feb-2020-news-updates-covid19/

It was in Washington State.

brylun said...

U.S. Reports Largest One-Day Increase In Cases Of Trump Derangement Syndrome

Nonapod said...

Maybe "I should have done more sooner" should be on everyone's gravestone.

ngtrains said...

Testing - testing-testing

information as of the end of 2/20 (11pm 1st)

There has been testing in all 50 states.
just 23,000 short of 4,000,000 tests.that just over 1% of the population -
but remember that not anyone can be tested. primarily they test people
with some sort of symptom.

OK - results to date in one state - 49.9% of the people tested are positive - New Jersey
NY is 39,9% positive. CT 31%, MI 28%, MA 24%, GA 23, Co 21, DC 21,PA 21, LA 17
All others under 20%
lowest state - north Dakota 2.42% positive.

Median of states - 10.55%
Average (wtd by population) 15.98%
22 states are under 10%.

Fauci made statement that if the testing shows 10% or less -
then they are oversampling.

I would expect that widespread sampling would lower the high % test states.

I recognize that these are not random sample tests, but the low % of many states
says to me that in those states it may be logical to start reopening some
of the economy.





Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Pelosi could be doing more and doing it sooner. Present tense. People are suffering now. Three weeks and we’re still waiting. One has to weigh Trump’s hypothetical “early” and potential suffering forestalled against Current actual daily damage because people have been forced out of work and Nancy controls that schedule. Then add in past and current attempts to thwart every-freaking-thing he has done.

MayBee said...

Ann Althouse said...
The first coronavirus death in North Carolina was on February 26.


It is not like you Althouse to leave this up without clarifying where you got this date. It doesn't seem to match what other sources are saying.

Browndog said...

MayBee said...

Now Whitmer has hired a progressive voter data base firm Every Action VAN to do contact tracing in Michigan.
(Their website advertises them as progressive, trusted by SEIU, Planned Parenthood, and NARAL)


GOP asleep at the wheel, as usual.

Wondering who is doing the contact racing in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania.

MayBee said...

Browndog- luckily a GOP Congressman called her out on it.

But how interesting to hire this company to trace the contacts of healthcare workers, truckers, and grocery store workers when their client base is the SEIU and other unions. And while the Democrats tried to use the first bill to push unionization.
It's got to be like a dream come true for them-- all in the name of COVID!

MayBee said...

Hopefully California has hired ACORN for contact tracing.

Drago said...

Field Marshall Freder Frederson: "Where the hell did he learn history? One would think going to a military high school, they would study military history. World War I ended because the German military finally reached the breaking point. It was not caused by the flu but by the British blockade, the failure of the spring offensive, and the injection of fresh American troops."

Apparently no one told ACTUAL Field Marshall Ludendorff that the flu had no impact as he wrote of its negative impacts on his troops during the western front Spring offensive in 1918 after the collapse of Russia gave the Germans the opportunity to transfer those eastern forces back to the west for one final push to break the stalemate.

The Spanish flu killed about 5 times as many soldiers as the war and was discussed quite prominently in my military training.

And the flu struck the Germans even more mercilessly after their offensive stalled in a viral second wave.

So tell us again Freder, where did you study military strategy?

And dont hold back now. I am sure its quite prestigious.

And while you are at it, take a moment to revisit your previous "analysis" "victories" from the russia collusion, Kavanaugh rape trial and ukraine phone call hoax episodes.

Right about now we could all use a good laugh.

walter said...

Cotton says the task force was in place when he approached admin.
John Roberts asks Dr Birx about serology report April 20

Drago said...

Left Bank of the Charles: "I don't recall Nancy Pelosi wasting any time on the impeachment. She was ready to put it in her desk drawer. It was Trump and the Republican Senate that insisted on the trial."

LOLOLOLOL

Is that how impeachment works?

So, uh, now that you've dug yourself into a hole, you're gonna do, what? Keep digging?

Sounds like a solid plan.

Browndog said...

MayBee said...

Browndog- luckily a GOP Congressman called her out on it.


What good is that going to do?

The RNC should have filed a lawsuit to get an emergency stay this morning.

narciso said...

look at this

Browndog said...

If democrats want to be consistent in their values and principles, they need to impeach Trump over Joe Biden's rallies.

Rabel said...

Nancy has spent a lot of her lockdown time in her plastic surgeons office. Lot of shine and smoothness in the forehead, cheeks, upper lip, chin line.

The procedures require some time in hiding to allow the bruising and swelling to subside. Forcing her to return to D.C. last week would have been cruel.

Browndog said...

narciso said...

look at this


Two things-

-If Trump would have acted sooner, there wouldn't be any lay-offs.

-If DimWhitmer hadn't locked everyone in their house there would have been a bazillion more layoffs.

(Libthink is Fun! and, it's so easy!!)

Josephbleau said...

"Trump could have done more and done it sooner."

This a vacuous lawyerly statement suitable only to deceive jurors, devoid of any intellectual or moral content. Perhaps unanimity of jurors for conviction is good, perhaps one of the jurors will not be deceived by flamboyant certainty.

hombre said...

Althouse: “Trump's action in January was to cut off (some) travel from China,....” Some travel? Really? Is Bill Maher the authority for this?

Who was exempted besides American ex-pats?

eddie willers said...

He LOVES repetition.

Three steps of a speech:

1. Tell em what you're gonna tell em.
2. Tell em.
3. Tell em what you told em.

Skippy Tisdale said...

"Nancy Pelosi, who is, he said, "very nasty""

Well she is.

narciso said...

we're going to have fewer doctors and fewer medical facilities moving forward,

Josephbleau said...

The Almighty God himself could have done more and done it sooner.

Ken B said...

Josephbleau
Could Trump have restricted flights from Europe? Could he have forbidden passengers with certain symptoms entry?

Josephbleau said...

Josephbleau
Could Trump have restricted flights from Europe? Could he have forbidden passengers with certain symptoms entry?

Sure, your point is?

stlcdr said...

rcocean said...
Trump always sounds better on tape than he reads in print. He LOVES repetition. He loves over-explaining things. He loves to ramble. It sounds OK in person, but it reads badly.

4/21/20, 10:40 AM


You have to read it in Trump-voice.

Ken B said...

Josephbleau
I think those count as “more”. They could have been done “sooner”.

Josephbleau said...

I don't know what world some live in, but in the world of those who face the world and lead, you work with uncertain knowledge and use your skills as best you can to create good outcomes, no one has an honest claim that any other particular politician would have performed as well or better. That is certain, and that is the standard. Go to church if you want a supernatural omnipotent savior.

rcocean said...

Trump could've done more sooner. Of course. And no doubt Althouse and the Dems were saying that in February, and early March.

Of course Trump could've done more sooner. We're in a war, and there hasn't been a war in history where mistakes weren't made, and people couldn't have done the right thing sooner or better. Here's what Lee said in 1863:

"We made a great mistake in the beginning of our struggle, and I fear, in spite of all we can do, it will prove a fatal mistake"

"What mistake is that General?"

"Why sir in the beginning we appointed all our worst generals to command our armies, and all our best generals to edit our newspapers. I have done the best I could in the field, and have not succeeded as I would wish. I am willing to yield my place to these best generals, and I will do my best for the cause editing a newspaper.

Even as a poor soldier as I am can generally discover mistakes after it is all over, but if I could only induce these wise gentlemen who see them so clearly beforehand to communicate with me in advance, instead of waiting until the evil has come upon me."

hombre said...

FF (11:04): “Sheesh, you are as bad as Michael K., lying about things that are easily proven to be lies.”

Except that Democrat have been living in “impeachment fantasy land” since Trump’s election until now, unremittingly.

Ken B said...

Don’t be stupid Joseph. I am not arguing Trump should have done those things, except in retrospect. I have consistently argued that essentially no one got this right until the end of February, and even then only some did. I have also said Trump did *better* than any western politician I can think of, particularly better than the Democrats.
And it’s precisely because we face uncertainty and risk that justify restrictions.

Ken B said...

Shorter Althouse: “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”

Hardly surprising she faces so much pushback here ...🙄

Josephbleau said...

Josephbleau
I think those count as “more”. They could have been done “sooner”.

"Trump could have done more and done it sooner."

This statement is perfectly true and perfectly useless. Yet you call me stupid. Angels dancing on pin heads.

Original Mike said...

Blogger Left Bank of the Charles said..."I don't recall Nancy Pelosi wasting any time on the impeachment. She was ready to put it in her desk drawer. It was Trump and the Republican Senate that insisted on the trial."

Oh, for fuck's sake, this is lame, even for you. If the plan was to 'put it in the drawer', what was the point?

Ken B said...

Joseph, I said you were being stupid. Not the same thing.

hombre said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jim at said...

Trump could have done more and done it sooner. That’s just a fact.

No. It's an opinion. And not a very good one, at that.

hombre said...

Althouse: “Trump could have done more and done it sooner. That’s just a fact.“

Coulda! Woulda! Shoulda! This falls into the domain called “anything is possible.” Any inference drawn from that “fact” is bullshit, probably Democrat bullshit.

Even Hillary-lover Fauci concedes that Trump followed the advice of the medical pros. How about this for a fair comment: “Trump could have done more and done it sooner had he been willing to ignore the evidence being presented to him by the experts and disregard the potential detriment to the economy.”

Original Mike said...

Blogger Left Bank of the Charles said..."I don't recall Nancy Pelosi wasting any time on the impeachment. She was ready to put it in her desk drawer. It was Trump and the Republican Senate that insisted on the trial."

I'm sorry, but this really sticks in my craw. The colossal waste of time that was impeachment was the Republican's fault!!!

Inga said...

“Trump could have done more and done it sooner."

“So could you. For example, you could have done more to tamp down The Panic, treating all the outrageous doom scenarios with your usual skepticism, questioning authority instead of telling the deplorables to "follow the experts," urging Trump to #ResistTheInsanity more than he was able to do.”

It’s ridiculous that you blame Althouse for not tamping down the so called Panic, while Trump himself was signing on to the very called so called Panic. He was listening and following “the experts”. We have yet to hear an honest critiques of Trump doing what you accuse the so called Panickers of doing. The truth is there was no “PANIC!”. Trump, just yesterday said again to continue social distancing. Do you not listen to what he’s saying? Or is he speaking out of both sides of his mouth, confusing his followers? In one breath he says to continue to social distance and in the other breath he is tweeting for Americans to “LIBERATE” themselves from social distancing?

How is that helping matters?

hombre said...

Biden’s next commercial: “Based on next July’s evidence, Trump should being doing more now. You know. He should be doing the ... you know, the thing.

I’m Joe Biden and I paid for this ad with ChiCom money.”

Ken B said...

Inga
It’s obvious Althouse was just pointing out no-one is above reproach here, yet look at the responses!

On the plus side look at all the chatter about the first death in Charlotte. Finally a death the denialists care about!

Mary Beth said...

Unknown said...

I think the purpose of a briefing is that it's brief.

4/21/20, 9:55 AM


One's a noun and the other an adjective and they don't mean the same thing. Is the briefing that long or is it short and the question/answer period is long?

walter said...

"Finally a death the denialists care about! "
Man..what a dick you can be.

Gk1 said...

Southpark pegged Ann's whole attitude with the "Captain Obvious" character that appeared after the oil well spill in Florida. https://giphy.com/gifs/southparkgifs-3o6ZtchKknm848aLHG

You have to ask yourself Ann, with posts like this. "Are you helping?"

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

in all fairness to Biden

...he didnt knowingly hold rallies in March

hombre said...

Inga: “It’s ridiculous that you blame Althouse for not tamping down the so called Panic, while Trump himself was signing on to the very called so called Panic.”

Obviously, Althouse had no responsibility regarding the panic. Trump signed on to the panic? Really?

Sooner or later you assholes ought to choose whether Trump and his deplorables bought into the panic or refused to take the ChiCom flu seriously enough. Not that inconsistency has every been a problem for Democrats, but we do notice.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

WHAT DO WE WANT?!?
MORE!!
WHEN DO WE WANT IT?!?
SOONER!!!

MayBee said...

Ken B-
You really aren't trying to have a conversation, are you.

Original Mike said...

"Man..what a dick you can be."

He revels in it.

walter said...

Btw, we are 2 weeks from the "reckless" in-person statewide election.
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/cases.htm
WI DHS
Currently an attempt to "link" 7 cases in Milwaukee, which had 19,000.
methodology:
"The election-linked infections were identified through the Wisconsin Electronic Disease Surveillance System, an existing statewide program for reporting communicable diseases, and a version of which exists in every state. After the election, state officials added a field to the system, which is used by health officials and includes a voluntary questionnaire for people with illnesses, to ask whether respondents had either worked or voted in person on Election Day, where they worked or voted, when they developed symptoms, and if they had gotten positive test results. “That would be a flag for us, so that’s how we found out that there’s seven,” Kowalik said.
The Wisconsin Department of Health Secretary Andrea Palm on Monday said state health officials had not yet seen evidence that in-person voting contributed to an increase in coronavirus cases. DHS did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Milwaukee opened only five polling locations on Election Day, down from its usual 180. An estimated 19,000 people voted in person in the city, meaning there was an average of 3,800 people at each location.
https://theintercept.com/2020/04/20/milwaukee-coronavirus-voting-election/

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

@MayBee
your post at 10:17
we've asked that question a few times here...
Zerohedge did a piece yesterday--

...but it could be said we, as a nation, have already demonstrated that
we have not yet reached that threshold during past outbreaks, etc.
It may vary depending on who is president at the time,
gnome sane?

Gk1 said...

There are cracks forming in the blue ranks if FB is any indication. Their open contempt and sneering at red states that are opening today and next week are being replaced with hope we can do the same in California. Some of their favorite niche restaurants, custom bike shops and huka stores are closing for good and it's beginning to dawn on them we can't stay closed forever. Hopes of a V shaped recover are quickly vanishing here in the bay area hence the reconsideration of cherished beliefs.

readering said...

Yeah, yesterday everyone in California thought we could say closed forever.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Gretchen Pelosi of Michigan...

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/04/21/police-rebut-whitmer-claims-ambulances-blocked-protest-traffic/5169518002/

Michael said...

Althouse did the arithmetic in those early days when everyone did their own models and came up with a potential 11 million deaths in the United States. A preposterous estimate but reflective of the mood of a cohort and plausible to those given to panic.

She was early adopter of sheltering in place and refining the protocols right down to washing her shoes after venturing forth into virusland.

So, yes, Trump could have done more sooner. He should have closed the country on the first whisper of a possible virus over in China reported by his crack intelligence services. It would have been a heroic mood. There would have been zero deaths in the US from the virus; None. The economy would have tanked and would be tanked now. The good news is that the press and the Democrats would have hailed the visionary Trump and thanked him for his early action.

Andy said...

Studyfinds reporting on antibody testing in LA County.
LOS ANGELES — Confirmed coronavirus cases only tell a portion of the story in any area, but a new study out of Los Angeles County has come to a startling conclusion. Based on the first round of antibody testing, 4.1% of the county’s entire adult population has already come into contact with the virus and developed an antibody.

After adjusting for statistical margin of error, that means anywhere from 221,000 to 442,000 local adults in Los Angeles have been infected by the coronavirus. That number is 28 to 55 times higher than the 7,994 confirmed COVID-19 cases in LA at the time the study was conducted earlier this month.


No information on sample size but there is this To come to these conclusions, drive-thru antibody testing sites were set up at six locations across LA county on April 10th and 11th. Tested locals were gathered from a database that is representative of the county’s population.

While these findings have not yet been peer-reviewed, the study’s authors plan to continue testing more residents in the coming weeks to get a better idea of the coronavirus’ spread throughout Los Angeles.


You can confirm your own bias in 5 4 3 2 1 go bias confirmation now active.

LA_Bob said...

"Fomenting. The disease, I assume. Can a disease foment?

Well, the things on which the virus settles and can be acquired via touch are called fomites, so I suppose the fomites fomented the spread of the disease.

Sebastian said...

Althouse's responses here are an indication of what we will get from the alarmists in the months to come, besides all the backtracking tropes already trotted on this blog and in the public arena: Trump should have done more!

Not a smidgen of introspection, not a single apology for the outrageous panicking, not one mea culpa for having helped to instigate the most disastrous form of public policy in the history of this country.

And when you think about it, it's hard to fathom: how could an otherwise sensible person like Althouse come to terms with the fact that she advocated ruin for the country she loves, that she and millions like her willingly participated in the panic?

It is a difficult thing for any sensible person to live with. More than backtracking tropes will be needed.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

12:54 Rabel

Insider photo

Achilles said...

Ken B said...
Inga
It’s obvious Althouse was just pointing out no-one is above reproach here, yet look at the responses!

On the plus side look at all the chatter about the first death in Charlotte. Finally a death the denialists care about!



Ken,

You are just a stupid person.

You are a piece of shit.

Now that you are so obviously wrong about COVID-19 the only course you have is to be completely dishonest and mischaracterize what those who were correct about this were saying.

Drago said...

Ken B: "Finally a death the denialists care about!"

Walter: "Man..what a dick you can be."

Oh, and Ken B is branching out as well.

Did you know he has now fully adopted the "isolationust Trumpkin" lie? Even Farmer couldnt talk him down from that one.

Ken B has also tripled down on the racist and anti-semitic charges against Trump voters.

It gets better: Ken B also insists that "open markets" and "free trade", by definition, requires the US to ve at a structural and permanent tariff disadvantage.

All in all a quite revealing several months with Ken B.

I have to say, a certain LLR who shall remain nameless, did a better job and for longer hiding what he was really all about.

Calypso Facto said...

KenB in his typically helpful fashion: "Finally a death the denialists care about!"

Inanity predicted by the Babylon Bee's helpful COVID-19 Talking Point Translation Guide: "I'm a little worried about government overreach. = I want people to die."

Paul Doty said...

Waiting on the hard hitting interview with Creepy Joe, who had rallies on March 7 and March 9. It's different because fingering Democrat.

Tomcc said...

Prof. Althouse @ 11:33: Trump could have done more and done it sooner. That’s just a fact.
Stated as what, an academic exercise? Are you saying that because he could have, he should have? Shall we ask Bill Clinton about his response to the crisis in Rwanda?

Laslo Spatula said...

"Trump could have done more and done it sooner."

3/14/20: "Metropolitan Opera, After Shutting Its Doors, Will Offer Free Streams From Live in HD Catalog."

"...This is great. I love seeing the silver lining. People are stuck without things to go out and do, but they can watch streamed video, and the public's need for entertainment can be met, and the forced seclusion can be used to build new interest in the best of performance arts..."


The Metropolitan Opera could have done more and done it sooner.

If they had closed a month previously and begun streaming at that time, countless lives would've been saved.

AND countless people would've had a head-start on building a new interest in the best of performance arts.

That’s just a fact.

I am Laslo.

Jim at said...

I have to say, a certain LLR who shall remain nameless, did a better job and for longer hiding what he was really all about.

KenB started showing his ass when he predicted WW III on account of the U.S. pulling 50 (five zero) troops out of Syria.

roesch/voltaire said...

Only I can fix it, says Trump-- if only he could remember to fix more than his ego and self interest.

Birkel said...

You people should listen to me... more and sooner.
I was calling Ken B a concern troll and a liar long before it was cool.

Given my impeccable record for predictions I assume I will be ignored by just about all of you for a very long time.
Good luck with opening up the states.
The mayors and county officials are fighting governors who want their states opened.

I look forward to the coming municipal insolvencies.
The states will be trickier since they cannot be without small-r Republican forms of government.
And receivership would not qualify as republican.
Let's decertify Illinois and make it a territory without congressional representation, I say.
They can reapply in 10 years.

The credit markets will seize.
The Fed is doing everything it can to avoid that end.
I don't know if they can be successful on this scale.

Fernandinande said...

More from the Bee:

China Impressed By Michigan Governor's Totalitarian Policies

Baptists Delighted They Can Now Wear Masks At Liquor Store

Michigan Governor: 'Revolting Against A Tyrannical Government Is Simply Un-American'

Fernandinande said...

"Based on the first round of antibody testing, 4.1% of the county’s entire adult population has already come into contact with the virus and developed an antibody."
You can confirm your own bias in 5 4 3 2 1 go bias confirmation now active.


My bias is that the tests' error rate could very likely be larger than the low percentages they're reporting, a la "Concerns with that Stanford study of coronavirus prevalence"

"Bendavid et al. estimate that the sensitivity of the test is somewhere between 84% and 97% and that the specificity is somewhere between 90% and 100%.[=false positives between 0% and 10%]
...
If the specificity is 90%, we’re sunk. With a 90% specificity, you’d expect to see 333 positive tests out of 3330, even if nobody had the antibodies at all."

Fernandinande said...

The Metropolitan Opera could have done more and done it sooner.

True, but it's not over 'til the fat lady dies.

walter said...

James Todaro, MD
@JamesTodaroMD
·
16h
The most recent #COVID19 antibody study of 863 subjects in LA shows 4.1% of the population has been infected

This is 28-55x higher than prior estimates

On accuracy, this particular Ab test had a rate of 2 false positives in 371 COVID-19 negative patients

walter said...

Really disappointing scarf selection today.

wbfjrr2 said...

Your honor, could you please direct the witness, Althouse, to answer the question? I’ll repeat it for her: what specifically should Trump have done and by when? Please, just the “fact” that you proclaimed in your earlier testimony”.

You’re a coward in this case Althouse. You really ought to be bowing before Trump and thanking him profusely for saving the 11 million people you were convinced would die. You and Meade that is.

So, are you going to answer the question or should your followers here hold you in contempt?

walter said...

Alex Berenson
@AlexBerenson
·
2h
Wow. The Wisconsin legislature has sued the state over the lockdown:
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/senate/13/fitzgerald/media/1402/20200421-supporting-memorandum-final.pdf

Drago said...

r/v: "Only I can fix it, says Trump-- if only he could remember to fix more than his ego and self interest."

r/v will never forgive Trump for having the nerve to replace the legacy "expert"-driven FDA/CDC policies/processes with a vibrant govt/private partnership arrangement that obliterates r/v's beloved government inertial and lack of adaptability.

Thoughts and prayers for r/v during this trying time of private enterprise shaming government institutions and govt "experts".

I was especially "impressed" with the utter failure of the 1-shot to get it right high risk test development process Fauci implemented at the CDC after the 2009 pandemic (which got zero press coverage and complaints despite tens of thousands of deaths).

Even the Washington Post, before they realized they had violated the Democrat Narrative for the 2020 Election, explained the entire screw up by Fauci and his minions and what a cluster that was that they handed to Trump before Trump said "enough" and called in the private sector.

Did you know the FDA/CDC, even after their collossal failures, were still not willing to bring in the private sector until Trump forced them.

Can you imagine where we would be if we relied on the "expert" opinions and precluded private enterprise intervention.

One shudders.

narciso said...

I think they call this the Bronx cheer

Gk1 said...

Lets be honest with ourselves, there is nothing Trump could or should have done that will ever satisfy the democrats in this country. They are like crabby 4 year olds who need a nap and it's a fool's errand to try to placate them or mollify them with reason.

Other than having a crystal ball, I'm not sure what President Trump, on planet Earth, could have done any sooner with a pandemic launched by a dictatorship halfway around the world that was too busy jailing its doctors and covering up a virus infection.

It's not any more complicated than that. Other than having clairvoyance or 20/20 hindsight (which is a lot to ask) I don't know how he could have dealt with this "better" from the shitty menu of options he had to pick from back in March.

Francisco D said...

KenB started showing his ass when he predicted WW III on account of the U.S. pulling 50 (five zero) troops out of Syria.

I did not recall that statement by little Kenny B.

He certainly became hysterical over COVID-19 and its "devastating" effects. I guess he really is an all purpose drama queen.

Ken B said...

Worldometer gives 2660 deaths today, as of right now.

Francisco D: COVID-19 and its "devastating" effects’

Meade said...

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/367295/

Marcus Bressler said...

Inga posted: "Trump, just yesterday said again to continue social distancing. Do you not listen to what he’s saying? Or is he speaking out of both sides of his mouth, confusing his followers? In one breath he says to continue to social distance and in the other breath he is tweeting for Americans to “LIBERATE” themselves from social distancing?"

He was not tweeting for people to liberate themselves from social distancing. He was, as I am, against draconian rules that shut down businesses and recreation, threaten people's lives and livelihoods and (some) make NO sense at all (see closing of beaches, golf courses).

THEOLDMAN

And the Hostess sounds like a swarmy personal injury lawyer with the notion that the president could have done much sooner and should have. Closing arguments are not evidence.


Drago said...

I found it very interesting that as of 48 hours ago Ken B was still arguing that the Forced Depression that occurred due to the shutdown did NOT represent an economic collapse.

Ken B was actually arguing that we had avoided that.

Nancy Pelosi-like in his "analysis".

Joe said...

What I find interesting is not that Trump held a rally on March 2, but that people who also held out in group settings during the same period are criticizing others for doing so. Pointing out that Trump held a rally on March 2 falls into that category. It seems obvious to me that few if any truly understood the scope of the threat to this country or made demands for generalized shutdown of the country, let alone supporting the steps the administration actually took on the way to generalized shutdown. Pointing out the timing of Trumps rally seems more designed to stop him from pointing out that bit of hypocrisy. For me personally, the shutdown of travel from China and then from Europe was my first wakeup call about how serious this could be. Before that, I took the public pronouncements of the WHO and CDC as primary sources to guide my concerns. I have been one of those dragged kicking and screaming down the path of acceding to severe restrictions on my activities.

Original Mike said...

UW Hospital surgeries down 60% last month. Salaried personnel taking pay cuts, hourlies reduced hours.

We flattened the curve.

I'm Not Sure said...

"They are like crabby 4 year olds who need a nap and it's a fool's errand to try to placate them or mollify them with reason."

Positions arrived at emotionally are not easily changed through reason.

Inga said...

Trump’s responses are an indication of what we will get from the alarmists in the months to come, besides all the backtracking tropes already trotted in the public arena: I should have done more!

Not a smidgen of introspection, not a single apology for the outrageous panicking, not one mea culpa for having helped to instigate the most disastrous form of public policy in the history of this country.

And when you think about it, it's hard to fathom: how could an otherwise sensible person like Trump come to terms with the fact that he advocated ruin for the country he loves, that he and millions like him willingly participated in the panic?

It is a difficult thing for any sensible person to live with. More than backtracking tropes will be needed.

Birkel said...

Trump has saved or created 10,955,000 lives.

Iman said...

Well, this is just a lie. The Senate vote on impeachment was February 5.

The Democrats were still flying high on their own supply and already planning their next highly offensive offensive.

Iman said...

Not a smidgen of introspection, not a single apology for the outrageous panicking, not one mea culpa for having helped to instigate the most disastrous form of public policy in the history of this country.

And when you think about it, it's hard to fathom: how could an otherwise sensible person like Trump come to terms with the fact that he advocated ruin for the country he loves, that he and millions like him willingly participated in the panic?


The revision of history begins...

Iman said...

You are a cesspool of bad faith, inga.

Drago said...

Iman: "You are a cesspool of bad faith, inga."

Indeed.

She still claims Kavanaugh is a rapist and Carter Page is a russian spy.

Andy said...

@Meade 6:56pm
agreed with examples all over these comments

Ken B said...

Over 2800 Americans died of Covid yesterday, per the Worldometer dating. That is the highest total yet. That, with very stringent distancing rules in effect.
So, what will we see shortly from the posters here? That it’s a frame up, the numbers are a fraud! It's really only a bit more than 2700! “Suck it up!” That it’s all a plot to ruin Trump's economy! The Democrats are to blame! They were old! “How many were AA?”
The usual, in other words.

Birkel said...

What you will see is:
1. completely wrecking an economy through governmental decree, combined with the damage to civil society, in addition to the (potentially artificially inflated) number of deaths is worse than
2. Letting people voluntarily protect themselves and limit their activities, not destroying civil society, and some unknown number of deaths.

It's the exact same argument that's been made repeatedly.

The argument is that we should err on the side of freedom, personal responsibility, and human ingenuity is better than government diktat.

Also, we will see that Ken B is a Concern Troll.

P.S. The number of deaths and the personal toll in the ROW will be worse than that in the United States.

Ken B said...

“ P.S. The number of deaths and the personal toll in the ROW will be worse than that in the United States.”

Obviously, because the virus will be even worse in some countries, and the ROW is a big place. So this is already true.

But how can that be if the virus is a nothing burger and all the damage is being done by the Democrats' stay at home orders?

Achilles said...

Ken B said...
Over 2800 Americans died of Covid yesterday, per the Worldometer dating. That is the highest total yet. That, with very stringent distancing rules in effect.
So, what will we see shortly from the posters here? That it’s a frame up, the numbers are a fraud! It's really only a bit more than 2700! “Suck it up!” That it’s all a plot to ruin Trump's economy! The Democrats are to blame! They were old! “How many were AA?”
The usual, in other words.


You are a liar and you post in bad faith.

First 2800 Americans did not die yesterday of COVID-19 and you know it. They are still counting "presumed" and "assumed" deaths, and most were weeks ago, on today's body count. They have said explicitly that is what they are doing and pieces of shit like you refuse to admit you were just plain wrong.

Second there is no spike in the overall death rate. In fact the 2020 death rate is the lowest it has been since 2016. The 2018 flu season blew this year completely out of the water.

The numbers just aren't there. Even now as the number of people in hospitals keeps falling there is this "sudden" spike in deaths. Anyone neutral observer can piece together what is happening here.

You are a joke. Your only arguments are misrepresentations of what other people are saying and repeating obvious lies.

Anonymous said...

"They have said explicitly that is what they are doing and pieces of shit like you refuse to admit you were just plain wrong."

Please demonstrate how yesterday's death totals as reported everywhere are what you claim, and that this is a significant enough percent of the total to matter.

If you post in good faith, you should be able to give a good faith answer, right?

Gk1 said...

"New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said he told President Trump during a meeting Tuesday that his state no longer needs the USNS Comfort, the Navy hospital ship ceremoniously deployed to New York City to fight the pandemic."

Wow, even after the 100's and thousands of deaths forecasted they are sending this ship back that may have treated what, 20 patients? Why are these denialists in Cuomo's office allowing this?

Birkel said...

No, you blithering idiot, I am say the death and destruction caused by the economic shutdown will be worse on the ROW than it will be in the US. I have only typed that dozens of times.

Again, when America sneezes Europe gets a cold.
And the shutdown was America getting the flu.
The ROW will be on life support.

You support the millions of deaths that will come with starvation and deprivation, you insensitive - and death wishing - monster.
Harrumph!!

walter said...

What do you mean by ROW?

walter said...

https://mailchi.mp/ff29e5c22290/lastenewsletter-5007765

"Nearly 70% of all Wisconsin COVID-19 cases are in the 6-county Milwaukee/Chicago Metro area, and another 14% are near Madison and Green Bay. Sixty-Two of Wisconsin’s 72 counties, reported ten or fewer new cases in the last week. But those counties are continued to be hamstrung by government order despite what is happening in those counties, or even neighboring counties.

Requiring two weeks straight of decreasing positive results means that Wisconsin could see 13 days of decreases, but if there is one more case on day 14, the previous 13 days are wiped out. Even areas of the state that have no cases for 2 weeks will be unable to reopen unless the whole state sees decreases. It’s lunacy. I know the Governor knows this, but it bears repeating, you can’t reduce from zero.

I also note that every other neighboring or “partnering” state has an end-date for their Stay at Home order at least 3 ½ weeks earlier than Wisconsin’s. In fact, every other state but two* that has an end date for their stay at home order has their end date at least two weeks prior to Wisconsin’s end date.

Buried in his “plan” is a prohibition on visits to nursing homes, rehab centers, long-term care, and correctional facilities until a vaccine is developed, which could be years away."

Ken B said...

Rest Of the World.

Birkel like sure bets. He is confident more people will die outside America than in it.

Birkel said...

Ken B,
When you decide to faithfully represent the argument of another for the first time, please do offer some sort of warning. You'd hate to cause shock to the many fair readers.

Again, you support the deaths of millions of minorities across the world.
Racist!

Achilles said...

Mark said...
"They have said explicitly that is what they are doing and pieces of shit like you refuse to admit you were just plain wrong."

Please demonstrate how yesterday's death totals as reported everywhere are what you claim, and that this is a significant enough percent of the total to matter.

If you post in good faith, you should be able to give a good faith answer, right?


Why did they send the USS Comfort home?

Why did they pack up the temporary hospital facility at Safeco field in Seattle with exactly 0 patients?

Why specifically is the death rate in the US not spiking along with the sudden massive increase in COVID-19 deaths?

Why are Hospitals closing down and laying off staff everywhere in the country?

Why are there not stories of Morgues being flooded in New York City?

We are just not seeing a massive spike in deaths. It just isn't happening.

Our Hospitals are laying off staff. I get to listen to my wife's Nurse meetings. They don't have anything to do. They have no patients. Nurses are being furloughed and begged to take low census days. Census is extremely low.

This is the most ridiculous pandemic ever.

Michael said...

Pro tip for KenB. Stay home a week past the day Meadehouse declares victory or surrenders.

walter said...

"Our Hospitals are laying off staff. I get to listen to my wife's Nurse meetings. They don't have anything to do. "
--
Sew masks! Kinda pricey labor but...

walter said...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/04/21/oral-polio-vaccine-has-potential-treat-coronavirus-column/5162859002/

oral polio vaccine has been documented to induce protection against a number of viral and bacterial infections. OPV, developed by Albert Sabin, consists of attenuated (weakened) poliovirus and has been used with great success in worldwide efforts to eradicate poliomyelitis.
The importance of innate immunity

In addition to protecting against polio by inducing antibodies that kill the virus, OPV activates other protective mechanisms, including an innate immune system, thus making people resistant to infections caused by other viruses and bacteria. For example, in large scale multicenter clinical trials conducted in the 1970s during outbreaks of seasonal influenza, OPV protected more people from influenza than most flu vaccines do. Furthermore, observational studies in many countries suggested that the hospitalization rate and the overall mortality among children immunized with OPV were consistently lower compared with unimmunized children, even in the absence of poliovirus in communities.
Clinical testing for SARS-CoV-2 in Seattle on April 17, 2020.

Clinical testing for SARS-CoV-2 in Seattle on April 17, 2020. (Photo: Karen Ducey/Getty Images)

Related studies revealed that similar nonspecific protection can be induced by immunizing people with measles vaccine, tuberculosis vaccine (BCG) and some other live attenuated vaccines. These observations suggest that the nonspecific protective effects are a result of boosting innate immunity that is our body’s front-line defense against infectious agents. This protection would last for a period of several weeks or months preventing or reducing the severity of disease in immunized individuals and slowing down the spread of COVID-19.

Lower incidence of COVID-19 in countries using BCG could suggest that the nonspecific protective effects could last much longer. Involvement of innate immunity could be particularly important because there is an indication that it is suppressed by SARS-CoV-2, while immunization with live vaccines is expected to stimulate it.

OPV is a proven safe and inexpensive vaccine routinely used orally in young infants and even newborn babies around the world. Focused analysis and experimentation will be required to ascertain how best to deploy a vaccine conferring high immunity but for a limited duration.

Achilles said...

You know why hospitals are laying off staff?

Because they are not doing elective surgeries like heart valve replacements.

"As Brian Kolski, director of the structural heart disease program at St. Joseph Hospital in Orange County, California, told me, “A lot of procedures deemed ‘elective’ are not necessarily elective.” Two patients in his practice whose transthoracic aortic valvular replacements were postponed, for example, died while waiting. “These patients can’t wait 2 months,” Kolski said. “Some of them can’t wait 2 weeks.”


But the best part of this is they were probably "presumed coronavirus" deaths.

Mark said...

Achilles, you never answered my question just ranted.

You are clearly not posting in good faith, so your claims about other posters are moot.

As expected you ignore the question. So brave!

Achilles said...

Mark said...
Achilles, you never answered my question just ranted.

You are clearly not posting in good faith, so your claims about other posters are moot.

As expected you ignore the question. So brave!



If you don't see how I answered your question, then you are too stupid to understand.

Ellie said...


Known Unknown said...
"Trump could have done more and done it sooner."

"I await specifics."

Here they are.
I know no one here reads this lefty rag but it's damning stuff and it's all captured. Also, Trump called it a hoax for christsake.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-red-dawn-emails-trump.html