It’s hard to know “what could have been done differently,” a Smithfield spokesperson said, given what she referred to as the plant’s “large immigrant population.”
“Living circumstances in certain cultures are different than they are with your traditional American family,” she explained. The spokesperson and a second corporate representative pointed to an April 13 Fox News interview in which the governor of South Dakota, Kristi Noem, said that “99%” of the spread of infections “wasn’t happening inside the facility” but inside workers’ homes, “because a lot of these folks who work at this plant live in the same community, the same buildings, sometimes in the same apartments."...
April 20, 2020
"Smithfield Foods Is Blaming 'Living Circumstances In Certain Cultures' For One Of America’s Largest COVID-19 Clusters."
Buzzfeed News reports.
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133 comments:
And they would be correct. As non-PC as this is.
Why can't we talk about true things? Because trying to assess a situation requires truth.
Loaded word there -- "blaming."
Meanwhile, plenty of people in the immigrant community here in Arlington are packing multiple families into a single apartment or house, with many people sharing bedrooms, sleeping in living rooms, etc. I don't know that it is a cultural thing as much as economic necessity since the cost of housing is so high.
Those Dirty Mexicans We Hire for Cheap.
I'm never going to buy Smithfield bacon. Ever. Again.
Of course, also here in Arlington, home of "smart growth" hyper-density housing policy, I've gotten into multiple arguments with our progressive betters about how contagion is more likely to spread in areas where people are in close proximity with each other, and less likely where they live further apart.
What about Smithfield ham?
I will translate- they are Hispanic immigrants, both legal and illegal.
I watch a show on HGTV called "Flip or Flop". It is set mostly in Orange County, CA where the hosts are house flippers. About once every season or two they will buy a house to renovate and flip in which it is obvious that 10 more people had been living prior to the sale. What you see are the rooms and garages subdivided to provide private spaces, and the outbuildings fixed up with illegal toilets and also subdivided. When I lived in Newtown, CT there was a house that I passed by once a day where it appeared there were 15 people living in what couldn't have been more than a 3 bedroom house- all of them appeared to be day laborers during the big housing boom of 2004-2007.
Now, members of this same demographic all congregating and hanging out by the 7-11 or similar location having no connection to a day labor pick-up site I think probably has little to do with economic necessity and is a cultural thing.
You have to go to BBC to get actual info.
"The workforce at Smithfield is made up largely of immigrants and refugees from places like Myanmar, Ethiopia, Nepal, Congo and El Salvador. There are 80 different languages spoken in the plant."
You can fill in the epidemiological details without much heavy lifting.
The full article of course blames Evil Corporation and Republican Governor.
TW
One summer while I was in college, I worked the corn pick on the canning line at Green Giant in Glencoe, Minnesota. They were thinking of phasing out using migrant workers so that they didn't have to provide housing and other support for them. But the Mexicans sure lasted longer than us college kids did. And I got to know some Mexicans. They're really cool people.
A Pork Processing Gulag of Mexican peasants. Maybe we should rename it Swine Flu-2. Remember Smithfield was bought by the ChiComs who know how to get cheap laborers. The Chinese restaurant chains in Atlanta were caught bringing in hundreds of Chinese Slaves to do the labor. They would make them live 20 + in a single family home. The 13th Amendment was just as needed as ever.
the Mexicans sure lasted longer than us college kids did
Economic necessity is quite a motivator. Perhaps feeling the bite of economic necessity themselves will lead to a resurgence of the American work ethic that is willing to do those hard jobs again.
There is a "Smithfield Foods" near you.
Well, I read your comment, Tim.
Kind of puts one off of pork products, but I doubt it’s any better in beef, chicken or fish processing plants.
Maybe Governor Noem could've imposed a statewide lockdown? South Dakota's one of those hotspot states that'll get the rest of us killed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hot Spot South Dakota -- 1635 cases, half of them in one confined location, 7 deaths.
Sometimes the truth hurts.
To identify a valid explanation for a phenomenon is not in itself to "blame" or denigrate anyone. It is not wrong to blame the victim if the victim is in fact at fault - although blame and fault are the wrong words to use. (I don't have access to the Progressive euphemism-generator, so I'm not sure what the right words are.)
Of course, if we successfully controlled the border, we'd all pay a little more for ham, Smithfield would have to raise its wages, and living conditions for the workers would improve. But then other workers would be stuck in Guatemala, which would lose its safety valve and the US remittance flow. Then again, maybe Guatemala should solve its own problems. Hmm.
I have a friend who a while back did some consulting work for Smithfield. He informed me that the company was very hesitant to spend money on maintaining best practices and taking appropriate worker safety measures. He also informed me that the company was bought by a Chinese owned company. And that the original American family that owned Smithfield is really unhappy with how the company is being managed and wants to try and buy it back from the Chinese company.
This bears repeating and bolding. You have to go to BBC to get actual info.
"The workforce at Smithfield is made up largely of immigrants and refugees from places like Myanmar, Ethiopia, Nepal, Congo and El Salvador. There are 80 different languages spoken in the plant."
Or...you get what you pay for. If you pay crap wages to people who haven't any recourse so that other people can buy their stuff at cheaper prices...this is what you get.
The people paying the cheap prices don't ever really think about where their food, coffee, clothing, shoes, computers, phones etc come from....as long as they can be hip, cool and blame somebody else and make fun of those stupid people who don't desire to live like they do.
Open borders so we can import cheap labor. Right?
Of those 1635 cases in Hot Spot South Dakota, 982 are active. And they will kill us all.
Spreading the viruses Americans won’t spread.
so... should ICE do a sweep of the infected's living quarters and see how many are here illegally?
NO NO NO NO......not allowed to enforce the law: when it is illegal aliens. Or evidently Chinese owned companies.
This is just the latest step in the campaign to pretend that South Dakota's lack of a forced shutdown is a major problem, compared to the basket cases in the blue cities.
“Living circumstances in certain cultures are different than they are with your traditional American family"
You know the one. The one where 45 y/o males can marry 6 or 7 year old girls and call them wives. The one whose "holy" book says, in Surah 4:34, "Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them."
Get that, "strike them." That's how this special culture handles social problems - through violence.
All cultures experience domestic abuse, but in this special culture, wife-beating is divinely permitted.
But when we bring this and other uncomfortable facts about this special culture, we're called Islamophobes,
Imported Hate: Islamophobia in Rural America by Muslim lawyer Taneeza Islam who has represented some of Smithfield's employees,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFNKuwyDGk8
"Fear is a natural reaction to things we do not know. Exposure alleviates that fear. In this personal talk, Taneeza Islam shares her experience fighting Islamophobia in South Dakota and rural America"
It's not just the wages that keeps people out of working the line at meat-packing plants. Especially a pork kill plant. Pigs scream and cry like human beings and bleed like stuck pigs. And I don't even ask what it smells like once the remaining carcassi are rendered.
Ah, the joys of internet communication.
I have considerable sympathy for the people working at places like Smithfield (I used to live in SD btw). Of course they have fewer options and are at higher risk. And it sounds as if the company did not do all that they could to have helped them.
But the point I was making is that to tell the story truthfully you do need to note that the workforce is what it is. And this is not being widely reported domestically. Even the Chinese ownership gets only a brief mention.
Contact tracing in this scenario? Likely impossible. I'll assume there is a mix of "documented and undocumented" people involved and that willingness to answer questions is reduced.
Open borders and "undocumented" people going here and there make epidemics harder to contain. It's part of the story and should not be ignored for PC reasons.
T
Is...is it possible, I mean...that you know...different ethnicities and races might..ummm..not be...you know...exactly the same? That...ummm..there might be...you know...differences among people based on...ummm...you know...race and...and...ethnicity?
Umm..am I..am I...allowed to s-say that?
You know the one.
Yeah, I don't see too many Muslims wanting to work in a pork plant.
I don't know what the USDA rules are for pork plants, but I remember seeing a documentary about chicken processing and they had to go through all sorts of gowning and decontamination procedures just going from one section to another.
@Tim Wolter:
I have considerable sympathy for the people working at places like Smithfield (I used to live in SD btw). Of course they have fewer options and are at higher risk. And it sounds as if the company did not do all that they could to have helped them.
I share your sympathy. Blaming immigrants misidentifies the problem. It's the system that enables them and the employers who exploit their labor that are to blame. One necessary component of immigration reform should be aggressive punitive measures against employers.
Curious George:
But the real issue is that Smithfield is Chinese owned, and had a lot of Chinese coming in for business. And guess what they brought?
The Vault Dweller:
He informed me that the company was very hesitant to spend money on maintaining best practices and taking appropriate worker safety measures..
But it's a lot easier for the Chinese owners to blame their immigrant workers, instead of their abandonment of best work practices, and the Chinese visitors to the plant bringing in the infection from China.
Abandonment of best work practices- reminds me of the BP blowout of 10 years ago, where many pointed out BP's abandonment of best work practices occurred not just in the Gulf of Mexico but also in the North Sea and at their Texas City refinery.
The governor of South Dakota said something similar on a podcast last week: "...this one situation in Minnehaha County...with this pork processing plant is that that community happens to live many generations in one building and apartment complexes--very crowded, much more dense--and that’s why we’re seeing so much spread in that situation."
A shutdown in South Dakota wouldn't have prevented this outbreak- a meat processing plant is essential work in every state's guidelines.
Maybe they don't want to be there in a pork factory, but they're there nevertheless.
"The workforce at Smithfield is made up largely of immigrants and refugees from places like Myanmar, Ethiopia, Nepal, Congo and El Salvador. There are 80 different languages spoken in the plant."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52311877
And btw, their religion only forbids the consuming of pork, not its handling.
@Matt:
Umm..am I..am I...allowed to s-say that?
So long as you don't aspire to any position of power or influence. Otherwise, the establishment is happy to ignore you and allow you to fulfill your role as a cog in the economic machine. Step out of bounds, and they'll bring the hammer down on you.
Um, isn't the company majority owned by the Chinese? Oh yeah, the WH Group from Luohe, Henan, China. I'll bet that has nothing whatsover to do with the conditions at the plant. None whatsoever. After all, they did such a great job with the ChinaFlu back home.
Blame is the wrong word, use Responsible instead. Like this: the workers living arrangements and culture are to Blame, the company is Responsible.
Tucker Carlson and Amy Wax invited wrath for suggesting that immigrants litter more than the native population. The outrage machine kicked into high gear. It's amazing how Social Justice Warrior don't realize how their ideology is used as a tool to enable plutocracy. Heaven forbid "racism" or "xenophobia" get in the way of their incessant effort to squeeze labor. Pay no attention to Google's monetizing of your data, the important thing is they fired James Damore over "sexism." They'll gladly support low-income housing, just not in their neighborhood. They'll get behind policing reform and lenient sentencing, so long as they can keep property values up in their gated and guarded communities.
"I don't know that it is a cultural thing as much as economic necessity since the cost of housing is so high."
Your statement answers clearly what you say you don't know.
Inga said... Kind of puts one off of pork products, but I doubt it’s any better in beef, chicken or fish processing plants.
I am guessing that you never read The Jungle.
But it's a lot easier for the Chinese owners to blame their immigrant workers, instead of their abandonment of best work practices, and the Chinese visitors to the plant bringing in the infection from China.
I think there was similar action that occurred in China recently. A couple weeks ago there were some stories about Africans not being allowed in a McDonald's in China, as well as some Africans being unfairly evicted from their apartments in China. Apparently the Chinese government/media told the Chinese populace that "We had the virus under control but it was immigrant communities that brought it back." This probably led to the backlash against Africans in China.
Just this morning I was trying to talk down my conspiracy minded brethren that Smithfield's decision to shut down their plants wasn't some nefarious Chinese plot to hurt Trump or starve America. It was most likely their *ahem* illegal alien employees who are sick or live in infected communities and that Smithfield would rather avoid the reputational harm by broadcasting this fact and would much rather keep the circumstances murky. Now we know.
I am guessing that you never read The Jungle.
I don't know if practices in early 1900's Chicago meat packing plants is a fair description of today's practices.
Cruise ships are in the same boat.
The left calls the right racists and sexists; the right calls the left postmodern Cultural Marxists; moderates and centrists balance the two sides; and the elite are laughing all the way to the bank.
Hey, hey, hey - are you saying that it might be possible that some non-Americans are bigoted and racist? And that some of these non-Americans might live in China?
Just not possilbe. The 'smart' people have been telling us for years how much more culturally superior they are to us heathens here in the US.
It's not just the wages that keeps people out of working the line at meat-packing plants. Especially a pork kill plant. Pigs scream and cry like human beings and bleed like stuck pigs.
When I was in the 8th grade, the nuns took us on a "field trip" to the Armour processing plant where we watched the pigs get slaughtered.
Those were the days. The beef plants had the cows suspended by one leg with a hook on a track. As the cow came into the plant, a guy standing on a little platform cut its throat with a long knife and it bled out into a pit below him.
Good times were had by all. Armour had a slogan that they used every part of the pig "but the squeal.:"
Cruise ships are in the same boat.
And that's an industry that deserves to sink. They register in tax havens, flag their ships overseas to avoid regulatory controls and taxes, and then cry for a bailout.
because a lot of these folks who work at this plant live in the same community, the same buildings, sometimes in the same apartments.
They live like Puerto Ricans.
NYC is a hotspot because people live on top of one another. is not rocket science.
Political Correctness, the policing obvious expression, is why a beach and a skateboarding park are indistinguishable.
It gets weird when allowed to run it's course.
"When I was in the 8th grade, the nuns took us on a "field trip" to the Armour processing plant where we watched the pigs get slaughtered."
What a hoot. Eating the grilled hot dogs that weekend had a different perspective.
Take a look at Bobby/Sammy's trip to a meat processing plant, Meat And You: Partners In Freedom (The Simpsons),
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR_4h5A5z_A
The Vault Dweller said... I don't know if practices in early 1900's Chicago meat packing plants is a fair description of today's practices.
No. Of course not.
I read The Jungle in high school (1968). It was a powerful anti-capitalist screed that put a lot of kids off meat.
Funny. A few weeks ago I theorized that part of the problem in Detroit and New Orleans was culture as well. The cultures unique to those cities. Detroit- urban black and Muslim areas are used to hanging out among themselves in groups more- for eating, music, just around the neighborhoods. Some use different sources for their information- (hence, the rumor that the virus could not affect black people only further hurt black people in those cities.) More than who, you might ask? More than a white anglo Saxon Protestant in the northern Detroit suburbs. Not a commentary on anyone. Just a fact.
Culture counts. We are all Americans but we all come from different cultures. Whether your family has been here since the 1700s or since January, we all reflect the culture we were brought up with. Drive through Dearborn, MI some time and you'll see what I mean. Culture has impact on how we live and how a disease like this can spread through a community, and further on into the surrounding area. To ignore it is to ignore reality and hope for the best.
One Smithfield worker, 64-year-old Agustin Rodriguez, died on April 14 from COVID-19 complications.
One. "Complications" - does that mean not actually a WuFlu death?
Maybe [Muslims] don't want to be there in a pork factory, but they're there nevertheless.
"The workforce at Smithfield is made up largely of immigrants and refugees from places like Myanmar, Ethiopia, Nepal, Congo and El Salvador. There are 80 different languages spoken in the plant."
Just so you know --
Ethiopia is a Christian country. Congo (both of them) are Christian countries. El Salvador is a Christian country.
Nepal is Hindu, with some Buddhists.
Myanmar is Buddhist.
Blogger Howard said...
It's not just the wages that keeps people out of working the line at meat-packing plants. Especially a pork kill plant. Pigs scream and cry like human beings and bleed like stuck pigs. And I don't even ask what it smells like once the remaining carcassi are rendered.
Here in the red states we prefer "tormented" pork, Howard. The pig has to run a gauntlet of screaming children in MAGA hats who are all armed with butcher knives and stab the pig as he runs by. The object is to kill the pig as inhumanely as possible. I suggest you never eat it.
They live like Puerto Ricans.
They only have 1,252 cases with 63 deaths, as of this hour. I think that compares better than NYC.
LINK
Hmm, maybe maybe open borders has some negative side effects.
Purely coincidental that the cultural practice of 10 or 15 to a household is what works best with a lower wage than an American citizen would demand. SJWs don't have a monopoly on exploiting "cultural differences" for economic gain. Diversity is our profit margin...errr, strength!
So, 18 days after the first case, when there were 238 cases among the workers, they did what? They put up cardboard dividers between people in close proximity.
And then on April 1st, they gave workers a free lunch that involved all the rest coming into the cafeteria? Together? In shifts? Whatever?!
And this is the fault of someone's culture? Yes, the idiocy of management's culture.
I am relieved to read it is Chinese owned, in a way.
And, just for the record --
There are more Christians living in Africa than any other continent in the world.
With due respect to my fellow commenters here, Chinese ownership of the Smithfield processing plant in South Dakota probably has not much more than bupkis to do with the spread of corona virus there. It's most probably the housing/dormitory/apartment dwelling conditions of the workers. They are immigrants from all over (80 languages spoken) they don't have much money and they live and sleep in crowded conditions. That's a perfect way to transmit the virus.
Come to Los Angeles or New York or Detroit--and order a shelter in place lockdown and in the poorer parts of those cities you are going to have crowded rooms full of people--another perfect way to transmit the virus.
New York's transit system reduced the number of subway trains to "prevent the spread of the virus". Okay, but essential workers had to use the subway. You reduce the number of trains to 1/3 of normal--and guess what the essential workers wind up crowded as cheek by jowl as they would have been on a "normal" subway day with all the normal workers on them.
Smithfield South Dakota is a hot spot. You might also find the same thing in carpet mills in Georgia that employ or employed large numbers of immigrant workers.
It's close contact crowded rooms, not immigrant status or Chinese ownership that spreads this stuff. Deplorables in flyover country where it's not too congested will probably ride this "pandemic" out with relative ease.
Francisco D
I read The Jungle in high school (1968). It was a powerful anti-capitalist screed that put a lot of kids off meat.
I read The Jungle in high school,without making any conclusions about meat or capitalism. Maybe that was because I remembered the odor from pig lot across the road from my grandparents' farm. I already knew that meat came from less than pristine origins.
I started to re-read The Jungle in the last decade, but never finished it. It read like a propaganda pamphlet full of stock characters.
"Eighteen days after the first case, once 238 workers had tested positive, Smithfield paused operations on all floors for 48 hours to deep-clean the plant, as well as install cardboard dividers at workstations and plexiglass shields on cafeteria tables. Even then, it moved slowly: Smithfield announced the temporary closure on April 9 but said it would not occur for another few days to allow for an orderly reduction in supply.
On April 10, Michael Bul Gayo Gatluak, a 22-year-old immigrant from South Sudan, clocked in at the hog kill department on the sixth floor. His job requires him to stand for hours on a platform “really, really close” to other workers along the production line where pig carcasses are chopped. “The job is so heavy,” he said. “You have to breathe so hard.” When he got home that night, he started feeling ill. He said he tested positive for COVID-19 three days later."
They were expendable.
Skeptical Voter
With due respect to my fellow commenters here, Chinese ownership of the Smithfield processing plant in South Dakota probably has not much more than bupkis to do with the spread of corona virus there.
Compare the number of visitors from the People's Republic of China to the Smithfield plant compared to other places in South Dakota. I wager the Smithfield plant had more Chinese visitors, thus presenting more possibilities for infection.
Regarding best practices/safety practices in the Smithfield plant compared to other meat processing plants- that is open to discussion. One commenter has already pointed out that the Smithfield plant's practices left something to be desired.
I wager that the Smithfield plant is far from the only meat processing plant to use immigrant labor living in crowded conditions- crowded compared to the average American. That is also open to discussion.
There is just no way such densely packed living happens in big blue cities like NYC and San Francisco (and their surrounding 'burbs).
Blogger Skeptical Voter said...
With due respect to my fellow commenters here, Chinese ownership of the Smithfield processing plant in South Dakota probably has not much more than bupkis to do with the spread of corona virus there. It's most probably the housing/dormitory/apartment dwelling conditions of the workers.
I'm sure that living conditions played a role in transmission. But if living conditions were the sole factor, wouldn't we expect all the cases to be confined to a single apartment or apartment complex? It looks like the plant was a transmission spot. And working conditions there could have played a role.
Farmer @5:39pm: Spreading the viruses Americans won’t spread.
Ha! Too bad Anne-I-Am isn’t here to see your sense of humor come out.
Smithfield Foods, by the way, is owned by a Chinese company.
No coincidence there, folks.
It's not like China is retaliating for Trump trade deals.
All the non-Chinese owned food companies are just fine.
This is just a coinky-dink. So after this is over, you shouldn't refuse to buy stuff from Smithfield Foods in order to bankrupt them.
Does anyone really think American companies don’t jam pack their factories with illegal immigrants they can pay the minimum possible and then dispose of?
Ownership is pretty irrelevant compared to what we are willing to pay for. And generally we, the American public, have been quite willing to look the other way, let meat processing plants hire illegal immigrants and house them in crummy conditions because the alternative is paying more for our bacon.
Unless we are willing to pay more, these conditions will continue.
That pathetic drunk Tigh has a lot of gall accusing others of being a Cylon.
And everyone is doing their best to alienate Boomer forever.
"Birhe was 6 when her mother started working at the plant 16 years ago, after emigrating from Ethiopia, where she owned a café. They lived near the facility, .... the children of other Smithfield workers: families from Mexico, Nepal, Honduras, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, El Salvador, and elsewhere. .... Her mom earned $17 an hour, which is nearly double the state's minimum wage, "
So nobody who was native to the USA was willing to work for twice the minimum wage? That's the implication but probably not true. Ethiopia lost an entrepenuer and we gained a stable family, not sure that is to Ethiopia's benefit.
" ... many at Smithfield had built stable careers with higher pay than what would be available if they started fresh elsewhere."
So there was a stable, long serving workforce not recent immigrants?
"Over the week following the first confirmed case at the plant, workers continued to dine in the cafeteria as normal."
The Chinese run company did not follow social distancing guidelines?
"They filed through hallways and staircases, joining teams from other floors in the sixth-floor cafeteria, which is mostly staffed by immigrants from Latin American countries. "
Oh, that's what the immigrants were doing.
"the company offered a $500 bonus to employees who didn’t miss any shifts in April."
My, a Chinese owned company instituted an incentive guaranteed to have negative health results.
"Smithfield workers and their relatives now account for more than half of South Dakota’s confirmed cases"
Congradulations to the Chinese owners.
The NYT will ask the ordinary Americans surrounding the factory whether they knew what was going inside the "camps."
"We had no idea" will come the response.
Costco has an automated chicken processing plant in Kansas, that has no issues. Many American agriculture companies did not automate, because of cheap labor.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/14/costco-meatpacking-virus-migrant-labor/
Farhad Manjoo took to Twitter to express his totally unexpected take;
” holy hell this is racist and evil: hire immigrants for very hard extremely dangerous meat-processing jobs Americans won’t do, fail to keep them safe, when hundreds get covid blame it on their immigrant “culture.”
Smithfield should be shut down. ”
Jobs Americans won’t do.
Gosh, I sure hate to break in on all this xenophobia, but now that there is actual antibody testing going on, the party is ending. Covid turns out to be more contagious than the flu, but no more than twice as deadly. The lockdowns are not only unnecessary, they're also ineffective. It will be seen in just a few days that the reason NYC new infections are dropping so rapidly is that just about everyone there has already been infected, and almost all of them have recovered.
The LA County study reported on in the link above gets very similar numbers to the Santa Clara County one done by Stanford a couple of days ago. But this one really is a random sample, and the test they used is very accurate. So this is very strong evidence that everyone has greatly overreacted to what really is, essentially, just another flu.
For anyone curious about what the Arabic squiggles said:
Put the target word here
looking at
Yasmine Sabry
Informed site
Nostalgia
the fourth pyramid
American oil
Corona Virus
Sk
Ahly News
Day and night
Dora
Sisi
Fasikh
Muhammad Ali
the pope
Abu Hashima
"Living circumstances in certain cultures" I had a one bedroom apartment in Davis, CA and my immediate neighbor was a group of 10-15 farm workers, all illegal. SOP -- a single guy would rent the apartment for "himself" and "a friend" then his pals would move in, cover the floor with mattresses. They all cleared out one night after a rumor went around that illegals would be drafted for Operation Desert Shield. That was 29 years ago.
I figured that compared to the conditions they were used to in their home countries maybe they didn't consider it a hardship, just smart and economical.
Fast forward, in my town the college students ran up the cost of rental housing because they were/are willing to pack in 3 or 4 students per bedroom, plus their parents could absorb the rent increases and still consider it a bargain.
That pathetic drunk Tigh has a lot of gall accusing others of being a Cylon.
To be fair, Tigh didn't know he was a Cylon at the time.
If the hourly wage is missing from the story, it's probably comparable to Starbuck's pay.
I bet a roll of TP.
Sorry, I'm not reading the story.
Lem said...
Cruise ships are in the same boat.
***********
??? How did they all get in there?
Smithfield Food is wholly owned by WH Group, a Mainland China holding company. I assume Buzzfeed finds this fact irrelevant because it mitigates the leftmedia’s attempts to denigrate Governor Noem’s approach to the ChiCom Virus.
Chinese executives reportedly (by employees) regularly visit the plant. Does the plant’s lack of candor in reporting cases have a familiar ring?
Smithfield is to S Dakota what New York City is to the U.S.
MikeDC said...
Does anyone really think American companies don’t jam pack their factories with illegal immigrants they can pay the minimum possible and then dispose of?
>>>>Not all American companies, no.
Ownership is pretty irrelevant compared to what we are willing to pay for. And generally we, the American public, have been quite willing to look the other way, let meat processing plants hire illegal immigrants and house them in crummy conditions because the alternative is paying more for our bacon.
>>>>We don't "look the other way" when we buy our food. We simply buy our food w/o a moment's thought as to how it gets to us.
Unless we are willing to pay more, these conditions will continue.
>>>>AFAIK there is no lobby anywhere that argues for "Higher Food Prices". Even if one existed, what would be its leverage? Should we all go on a food strike? Yeah, that would force those evil companies to increase their prices!!
s n o r t
"Smithfield Foods Is Blaming 'Living Circumstances In Certain Cultures' For One Of America’s Largest COVID-19 Clusters."
Yes. So?
Diversity is your strength until it isn't.
Didn't China buy Smithfield?
I have no brief for this company or the housing conditions of its workers. I suspect all that is said here about the dangers of their living in such densely packed spaces is right. I simply want to comment on Upton Sinclair's book "The Jungle." I see Mary Glynn did not like the characterization of that novel as propaganda. She scolded Richard Johson, telling him: "The genre that Sinclair and his cohorts like Dreiser wrote in is considered "realism". Do you know much American history, or just what you've been taught about the upper-class and warrior-class Americans in school?"
Nevertheless, the book was propaganda. Sinclair himself never observed the conditions he described so luridly. As a dedicated socialist, he was actually disappointed that the public reacted to the atmospherics rather than his socialist message. He later said, "I aimed at the public's heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach." In fact the real meatpacking industry story was vastly more complex than the novel indicates. Including the simple fact that by 1906 there already was an inspection process in place, backed in part by the meat packers themselves, who wanted to reassure European consumers that American meat was okay. Socialist historian Gabriel Kolko tells the full story in all its complexity in "The Triumph of Conservatism: A Reinterpretation of American History, 1900-1916." Things are never so simple.
"Unless we are willing to pay more, these conditions will continue."
I think you confuse cause and effect. If I start paying double for my bacon, I don't know what will happen to the money, but I'm pretty sure it won't go to worker's housing in South Dakota. If, on the other hand, Smithfield starts paying more, it is quite likely the cost of bacon in Oregon will increase.
RichardJohnson said... I started to re-read The Jungle in the last decade, but never finished it. It read like a propaganda pamphlet full of stock characters.
It was much more effective propaganda when you had a 1960's teenage audience and leftwing teachers trying to direct our understanding. I suspect that many current day socialists have their philosophical background rooted in that novel, either directly or indirectly.
Very slightly OT:
"refugees from places like Myanmar, Ethiopia, Nepal, Congo and El Salvador"
Like, what refugees? Why? Why here? From Ethiopia, Nepal, El Salvador?
Example: say, there are Muslims who escaped from Myanmar. There are 59 majority Muslim countries in the world. Why not resettle them there?
Example 2: say, people want to escape from Congo. OK, Congo is a nasty place. But there are dozens of African countries that offer safety from persecution. Why not resettle there?
As we rethink our global connections, to China in particular, let's also do a big WTF.
This plant was not closed by government fiat. But it is closed now, with disastrous repercussions for the workers and community, for the company and its reputation, for the suppliers who will lose their market, by the unchecked virus. THIS IS THE WAY THE DENIALISTS THINK WE SHOULD RUN THINGS. Open everything. Let it run its course. Tough it out. They pay no heed to the disruption, and less to the deaths. If we ignore the virus the way many here would have us do this kind of thing will happen over and over, making a hash of the economy and filling the hospitals.
A rigorous test and trace program can prevent such things, at a cost of a slower, more incremental re opening. It’s what Trump wants. It's not what the denialists here want.
Interesting graph in this article. NYC has only the 17th highest infection rate in the country. The suburbs surrounding NYC actually got hit harder - Rockland county almost twice as high as the city.
This would seem to argue against both density and the subway as being the biggest risk factors. Pretty much everyone in NYC uses the subway but only a fraction of people in the suburbs do. Similarly, density is much lower in the suburbs.
ARM
It suggests to me that actually the subway might be a factor in deaths more than in spread. That fits with the viral load theory.
This plant was not closed by government fiat. But it is closed now, with disastrous repercussions for the workers and community, for the company and its reputation, for the suppliers who will lose their market, by the unchecked virus.
What does this mean? Are you advocating shutting down all meat processing plants as a prophylactic measure? Or does KenB have some kind of Magic 8 Ball that tells him which meat processing plants are going to get hit with the virus?
Is the death rate in Westchester and Rockland significantly lower than NYC? I couldn't find data on this either way.
Automatic Wing
The answer to your question should be clear but I’ll spell it out.
Denialists tell us the only threat to the economy is the government measures, not the effects of the virus. Here we see how wrong that is.
I stated, but you didn’t quote, that we need testing for workers in such places.
Explanation:
NYT April 8, 2020
Fear and Frustration Rise as Virus Spikes in Jewish Enclaves
Rockland County, N.Y., currently has the highest per capita rate of coronavirus infection in New York State.
About 25 miles northwest of New York City, local authorities have been waging a losing battle to curb the coronavirus outbreak: Rockland County has the highest per capita rate of infection in the state, and among the highest in the nation.
The source of the problem lies in small pockets of the county that are home to a large number of Orthodox Jewish residents, some of whom, according to authorities, have refused to adhere to social distancing requirements.
Spring Valley and Monsey — two adjacent communities with large Orthodox Jewish populations — each have more than 1,000 confirmed cases, accounting for more than a third of the county’s entire caseload, according to statistics compiled by the county health department.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/nyregion/coronavirus-rockland-monsey-jews.html
I'm old enough to remember when native born american citizens worked in meat packing plants in Milwaukee.
It wasn't that long ago.
Weird.
the Chinese like to buy up meat packing plants and slaughter houses.
StephenFearby said...
Explanation
Yes the orthodox have not taken social isolation seriously. I don't think their numbers would account for the high rates in Westchester or Nassau, but not sure about this, a few hotspots might bias things a lot. Also there is no shortage of orthodox Jews in NYC.
Is the death rate in Westchester and Rockland significantly lower than NYC?
It's moderately lower per capita: Around 6 per 10K vs 8 in the city. Per case it's much lower, but that's because they do a lot more testing in the 'burbs.
As to the topic of the post: In NYC the cases are heavily skewed toward the lower income areas, as shown here: NYC cases by zip code. Manhattan south of 96th Street is relatively light. The Bronx and rougher parts of Brooklyn and Queens are much heavier. I've reliably heard that the folks there are not so careful about social distancing.
You have to wonder what will happen to Chinese owned companies in america now. The stigma of being chinese owned is going to be awfully hard to scrub off going forward.
Just today nnother client just ditched chinese owned Zoom for doing conference calls going forward. They are mandating Webex. Most of silicon valley will be following suit I would imagine.
Since China continues to act like a hit and run driver trying to make their escape, I don't see how they can make amends. Does anyone really give two shits if they back out of our recently signed trade agreement?
Rockland County, N.Y., currently has the highest per capita rate of coronavirus infection in New York State.
As I mentioned just above, that's probably due to the large amount of testing. They've tested double the share of the population that's been tested in Queens. Their death rate per capita is lower.
Obviously there aren't enough test kits to test everyone regularly. Saying "there oughta be more testing" is a non-answer.
Do you think your grocery store tests their employees regularly? You ought to find out, and have them shut it down if they don't. Or are you a complete fucking hypocrite who only freaks out about COVID when you don't have any skin in the game?
In other news of the day...
Washington Examiner April 20, 2020 09:55 PM
North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in ‘grave danger’ following surgery: Report
North Korea’s Kim Jong Un is reportedly in “grave danger” after a medical procedure.
A United States official with direct knowledge of the matter told CNN Monday the U.S. is monitoring intelligence of Kim’s surgery that has come out of the hermit nation.
The Daily NK, a South Korean based website, also reported that an informant inside North Korea claimed that the dictator recently had a “cardiovascular surgical procedure.”
Kim missed his grandfather’s birthday celebration, which is a national holiday, last week, causing some to speculate about his health.
The Washington Examiner has reached out to the CIA and the State Department for comment
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/north-korean-leader-kim-jong-un-in-grave-danger-following-surgery-report
With a link to the 9:30 PM CNN video report
>>Is the death rate in Westchester and Rockland significantly lower than NYC? I couldn't find data on this either way.
ARM, amateur epidemiologist, is on the case.
We all know what the result of his rigorous analysis will be: Orange Man Bad
ARM
Is the death rate in Westchester and Rockland significantly lower than NYC?
New York Coronavirus Map and Case Count (up to date)
Deaths per 100,000
NYC 119
Nassau 121
Suffolk 60
Westchester 89
Rockland 88
In NYC, Manhattan is the least affected of the 5 boroughs- time commuting on subway the difference?
Cases per 100,000
NYC 1,620
Nassau 121
Suffolk 60
Westchester 89
Rockland 88
"North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in ‘grave danger’ following surgery: Report"
Wouldn't that be a howler if the Kungflu took out top leadership in China, Iran and North Korea?
That makes more sense than a 36 year old Kim Kong Un going in for heart surgery. I'm guessing those crack Cuban heart surgeons from the best socialist hospital in the world, are falling down on the job.
Mary Glynn,
It is beyond me what the smells of Chicago have to do with the point I was making about Upton Sinclair. I've been to Chicago many times. The smells vary from place to place. A 1906 report of the Department of Agriculture's Bureau of Animal Husbandry refuted much of what Sinclair claimed. (U.S. Congress, House, Committee on Agriculture, Hearings on the So-called "Beveridge Amendment" to the Agriculture Appropriation Bill, 59th Congress, 1st Session, 1906, p. 194.) Sinclair's book did generate pressure for increased regulation, which resulted in the Meat Inspection Act of 1906. Ironically, that act was backed to the hilt by the meat packers -- who got taxpayer-paid inspections, an enhanced reputation for their product, and new regulations that put their smaller competitors at a disadvantage. An old story. Sinclair himself opposed the law.
Richard Johnson: Those case per capita numbers for the suburban counties are wrong. They are higher than in NYC.
> AFAIK there is no lobby anywhere that argues for "Higher Food Prices". Even if one existed, what would be its leverage? Should we all go on a food strike? Yeah, that would force those evil companies to increase their prices!!
It’s not a matter of lobbying and leverage, it’s a profit opportunity for a business. Cage-free eggs, organic food, all kinds of nonsense sells because companies market it. If people can market humanely treated animals, people should also be able to market humanely treating the people we pay to make our food.
I mean, I’d be more willing to pay for meat produced by legal workers paid a reasonable wage than I would to pay for eggs laid by free range chickens
RichardJohnson, first, thanks for posting that, but your cases tables is listing deaths for every region other than NYC. Still don't have deaths per cases, which I should just calculate.
Based on these numbers Ken B was correct, the death rate is higher in Manhattan.
% deaths/cases
New York City 7.3
Nassau 5.4
Suffolk 3.2
Westchester 3.5
Rockland 3.0
Obviously assumes the denominator (number of cases), is meaningful. Can't imagine why there would have been more testing in the suburbs, but maybe.
> I think you confuse cause and effect. If I start paying double for my bacon, I don't know what will happen to the money, but I'm pretty sure it won't go to worker's housing in South Dakota. If, on the other hand, Smithfield starts paying more, it is quite likely the cost of bacon in Oregon will increase.
I’m pretty sure I don’t, because, I understand supply and demand. People are willing to pay more for the same thing in all sorts of circumstances if they believe they are paying for people/animals to be treated better. You can choose to buy the cheapest thing, which is made by orphans in Pakistan chained to radiators, or you can pay more for the same thing made by a company that touts that they pay their workers better and pays Americans to do it.
I mean, places like Whole Foods have come into existence on this principle. So if there’s no market for it, the main reason is that we, as buyers of meat, are willing to look the other way and take the cheapest one.
Blogger James K said...
Richard Johnson: Those case per capita numbers for the suburban counties are wrong. They are higher than in NYC.
Correct. Here are cases per 100,000 people.
New York City 1,620
Nassau 2,261
Suffolk 1,859
Westchester 2,509
Rockland 2,922
ARM, I haven't found deaths yet for the 5 boroughs.
Here are case rates for the 5 boroughs.NYC.Gov:Rates by Borough
COVIC-19 cases per 100,000 people
Manhattan 900
Brooklyn 1,297
Queens 1,624
Staten Island 1,990
The Bronx 2,005
This lists 132,567 total cases, which is similar to the NYT 136,816 total cases.
I would be skeptical about death per case, as that is dependent on testing. Better deaths per capita, but I haven't found that yet.
ARM, here are some estimates for COVID-19 virus death rates in the 5 boroughs of NYC. I see them as estimates, as I will point out they do not precisely match other data . From NYC.Gov. Covid-19 Deaths. Daily Summary. April 20 (as of April 19, 6 p.m., we get the following.
NYC COVID-19 Deaths Among Confirmed Cases
The Bronx 2036
Brooklyn 2705
Manhattan 1185
Queens 2722
Staten Island 448
Unknown 5
Citywide 9101
From NYC,Gov.COVID-19: Data. Rates by Borough, we get:
Rate per 100,000 people Count
The Bronx 2,005 29505
Brooklyn 1,297 35203
Manhattan 900 16987
Queens 1,624 40714
Staten Island 1,990 9986
Citywide 132467
Using those rate/count ratios, we get deaths/100/000
The Bronx 138
Brooklyn 100
Manhattan 63
Queens 109
Staten Island 89
Citywide 111
Note that there is a difference between the Citywide rate computed this way (111) and the previous figure of 119. Also note from the same data page where we got rates by borough (NYC,Gov.COVID-19: Data), it states "Deaths in NYC Reported by New York State: 10,022 (updated April 19, 1:30 p.m.)." Which is different form the 9,101 from the PDF of borough deaths.
All I can do at this stage is to point out that the death rate/100,000 for the 5 boroughs is internally consistent, but one should be careful in comparing to other counties.
We can state that the Manhattan death rate is lower than the death rate for other boroughs, however.
Mike DC says: "Does anyone really think American companies don’t jam pack their factories with illegal immigrants they can pay the minimum possible and then dispose of?"
actually I don't think they do. Having worked for 4 manufacturers -- we followed the law. And paid excellent wages. Non-Union.
"I don't know that it is a cultural thing as much as economic necessity since the cost of housing is so high."
-- Culture is just as much a result of reality as an influence on reality.
Dreiser good, Sinclair bad.
I remember An American Tragedy as a powerful reading experience. Long, tho, and not sure I could pick it up again. But maybe, if this shutdown goes on much longer.... The was part of the golden era of American literature.
Sinclair was the Zinn of his day.
Destructive propaganda.
Agree about American Tragedy--good literature. Also Sister Carrie. Sinclair was just a journalist, not a writer, as I recall. Nothing much has changed about journalism.
Even a lot of American supposed literature prewar was marred by leftist tendentiousness. Steinbeck, Sinclair Lewis, among others.
Germ theory - teach it to everyone. It can't hurt.
Chinese owners, diversity, and labor arbitrage.
When I was living in Astoria, Queens, NY, it had become a Greek Community which was fine but they did it like many new immigrants did they moved in with extended family. So you might have two or three families living in one apartment. They all worked and kept things going and they pooled everything. What that meant was they would all pool money and one family would buy a house, then the next and keep adding families to the apartment till all of them had houses that for the most part paid off.
This was normal and many ethnic groups did it when they first came here and got started
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
StephenFearby said...
Explanation
Yes the orthodox have not taken social isolation seriously.
Really? The Detroit Council of Orthodox rabbis prohibited group prayer services weeks ago.
A minority of the orthodox community in the United States has resisted the social distancing guidelines. Orthodox Jews are vulnerable to the spread of viral diseases, as we saw in the recent measles outbreak, for plenty of reasons that have nothing to do with obeying or disobeying current rules for social distancing. Nobody will play the race card to defend them, however, they're not an annointed group and in any case, it's okay to blame the victim when the victims are Jews.
The "chareidi" community has much in common with other subcultures disproportionately affected by the CCP virus: multiple generations living in the same home, high population densities, and lots of socialization. In addition, a large percentage of chareidi Jews don't have televisions or smart phones, and if they have internet access, it's often restricted to avoid porn and the like, so the community is somewhat isolated from current events. They do, however, travel a lot, both domestically between the NY/NJ area and other orthodox communities in the U.S., and internationally, to Israel, Europe, and some travel to China for business. Orthodox Jews do a lot of stuff communally, and unlike Reform and Conservative synagogues, orthodox shuls are usually crowded. The holiday of Purim, which has a religious requirement to hear the book of Esther read in the synagogue, took place before any of the guidelines in the U.S. were implemented.
As for the Smithfield pork plant is concerned, I keep a kosher diet so it doesn't directly impact me. Empire's kosher poultry plant in Pennsylvania was briefly shut down a couple of weeks ago, but is back up and running as far as I know.
Do some research, please, people. The main source of spread of coronaviruses is from bats to pigs to people, period. This is why the factory farms and meat processing plants are having large outbreaks (and not other factories where migrant workers might work). Why would they hide that?? The hog industry! Hogs are a huge commodity in the world of finance! Is there a coverup? Yes. Did you know that there are concurrent pandemics involving swine in the world over the past couple of years and ongoing? Please, please, let's get to the truth here.
Do some research, please, people. The main source of spread of coronaviruses is from bats to pigs to people, period. This is why the factory farms and meat processing plants are having large outbreaks (and not other factories where migrant workers might work). Why would they hide that?? The hog industry! Hogs are a huge commodity in the world of finance! Is there a coverup? Yes. Did you know that there are concurrent pandemics involving swine in the world over the past couple of years and ongoing? Please, please, let's get to the truth here.
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