"... on Wisconsin and the world. Our tradition of balancing the collection of artifacts and material with personal experiences is a critical part of this process. Just like the soldiers in 1861, it is your documentation of your experience living during the COVID-19 pandemic and quarantine that will allow the Society to share history with people living 100 years from now. Every story is important. The Society is seeking individuals and organizations from all walks of life, different backgrounds and cultures. Perspectives from a retired couple or school-aged child are just as important as those from front-line health care workers. Teachers or supervisors could also make this an engaging group project!"
From The Wisconsin Historical Society.
Just like the soldiers in 1861?
In 1861, Wisconsin Historical Society founder Lyman Draper asked soldiers stationed at Camp Randall in Madison, Wisconsin to help document the Civil War by keeping a diary. After the war, those diaries were mailed back to the Society, where today they are regarded as one of the most valuable collections in the Society’s archives.
IN THE COMMENTS: Ryan writes:
Because staying home all day watching Netflix is just like the Civil War.
Posts
114 comments:
I wonder how many of those 1861 diarists pronounced the war a hoax, or that the deaths don’t really matter, or that war killed no-one, they really died or wounds and disease.
Because staying home all day watching Netflix is just like the Civil War.
It’s important to remember the past, unless the past happens to be a confederate graveyard located in your capital city.
I wonder how many of those 1861 diarists pronounced the war a hoax, or that the deaths don’t really matter, or that war killed no-one, they really died or wounds and disease.
Ooooh what a gotcha there Ken.
To answer your [pointless and juvenile] question, probably the same number of people who say the same things about CV. That is, zero.
I'm sorry that you're afraid and that having everyone agree with you would make you feel better and you can't get blood no matter how hard you squeeze that turnip. We've all been there.
Aren't people's experiences today readily available and known, documented even?
Ken B said...
I wonder how many of those 1861 diarists
I wonder how many of those 18561 diarists were dicks who used every event as an opportunity to talk about how much better they were than those awful people who had different points of view than them.
There is no COVID-19 crisis in Wisconsin.
94 deaths attributed to COVID-19 as of April 3.
And even that stat is fuzzy because it appears that many of those deaths are attributed to COVID-19 without testing the victims for the disease.
The Wisconsin Historical Society has promised to release the results of Tuesday’s election sometime this century.
"Because staying home all day watching Netflix is just like the Civil War." - thanks for this I literally laughed out loud.
Because staying home all day watching Netflix is just like the Civil War.
The teevee reception is a lot better now than it was back then because digital.
school-aged child
Brings to mind children aged in schools "to allow enzymes naturally present in their meat to break down the muscle tissue, resulting in improved texture and flavor."
the war killed the equivalent of 6 million today, now Wisconsin has mostly a copperhead regime all the way around,
"The [Wisconsin Historical] Society is actively documenting the impact of COVID-19..."
"... on Wisconsin"
Great. We love history. Hopefully, they will be able to discern the impact due to the virus itself in Wisconsin (92 Covid deaths over 3 months in a population of 6 Million) from the impact due to the government shutting down a massive economy and killing hundreds of thousands of private sector jobs held by healthy blue collar workers.
Some people are slow to recognize the two separate impacts.....
How can I gain access to those diaries? I want to read them.
Likewise, we’ve shut down Ulster County, NY, where I live, over 5 deaths purportedly attributed to COVID-19.
Even that stat is suspect.
Last night, the press reported that John Prine was a casualty of COVID-19. He had lung cancer and had recently had part of one of his lungs surgically removed, and he was 73.
He was not long for this world, without regard to COVID-19.
They used to call pneumonia “the old man’s friend.”
Eventually the PTB will remove all records of Americans devastated by governments' rash decisions to shutter 18% of the world's economy. (That's 75% of the US economy for the uninitiated.)
They will be whitewashed like the Confederate soldiers held in Wisconsin.
Well today's journalists are like firefighters who rush into burning buildings right so a Historical Society must be the equivalent of Seal Team Six right?
I presume they were mailed back by the Yankee’s surviving family who got the personnel effects back after the battles.
This lockdown is far more than I ever expected or experienced in my whole lifetime.IT has bought a recession in real estate and stock markets which are devastating.
And even that stat is fuzzy because it appears that many of those deaths are attributed to COVID-19 without testing the victims for the disease.
On the other hand, people that did not make it to a hospital to die, and died from obvious C19 symptoms, are also not tested or counted.
They've made it impossible to know how deadly C19 is, and find it hard to believe it is due to systemic incompetence.
more like the firemen in Fahrenheit 451
IHME now projects total CV deaths at 60K through Aug 4th.
Good job America! Now let’s start thinking about how we get back to the new normal.
"Bay Area Guy said...
Some people are slow to recognize the two separate impacts....."
Some never will. Let them have opera!
It's not historical, unless media hype is.
Browndog said...They've made it impossible to know how deadly C19 is, and find it hard to believe it is due to systemic incompetence.
That's not fair, like the people attacking Trump over every imperfection in the country's response or dingleberries like Ken B smearing everyone who wrestles with the grey areas. It's not a simple straightforward problem with a simple straightforward answer. There is fraud in places like China and accusations of it in Italy and Iran. Thousands of reporters in the US all using slightly different standards to tally their numbers will lead to imprecise results. We have to settle for doing the best we can do and accepting that it's the best we can do.
As I've been saying for a month, go outside.
Keep the Parks Open
Public green spaces are good for the immune system and the mind—and they can be rationed to allow for social distancing.
The outdoors, exercise, sunshine, and fresh air are all good for people’s immune systems and health, and not so great for viruses. There is a compelling link between exercise and a strong immune system. A lack of vitamin D, which our bodies synthesize when our skin is exposed to the sun, has long been associated with increased susceptibility to respiratory diseases. The outdoors and sunshine are such strong factors in fighting viral infections that a 2009 study of the extraordinary success of outdoor hospitals during the 1918 influenza epidemic suggested that during the next pandemic (I guess this one!) we should encourage “the public to spend as much time outdoors as possible,” as a public-health measure.
"IHME now projects total CV deaths at 60K through Aug 4th."
Any evidence yet of any projections adjusted upward? I think I've seen one along the way.
Let's record the panicky projections as well--11M! 2M! No, 1M! Scratch that, 200K, "a number"! 80K, wait, 90-some K, oh no, 60K! And of course, none of those projection account for lung cancer patients or old diabetics recorded as dying "due to" Wuhan. While we are at it, let's record the record of recording, so we can account properly for actual excess deaths.
Some experts have been honest, and some projections of infections reliable in spite of bad data, more so than hospitalization and deaths. But "uncertainty" has led a number to predict doom, biased only in one direction. And CYA politicians have seized on doom scenarios to bring about worse.
In the end, how many billions will we have spent per "life" "saved"? Let's record the cost precisely, so The Reckoning can be thorough.
647 volumes of "Orange Man Bad"!
In some ways it's actually worse because there are no front lines and most of the casualties will be caused by friendly fire. However it would have been more appropriate to compared to the general population during war rather than a soldier. Especially a civil war soldier.
Browndog
Initially we had what seems the sensible thing with parks. Anything with a door was closed, but the parks were open. Now some parks have closed entirely. Seems counterproductive. We have dozens of conservation areas nearby.
in france, they are shutting down open air exercise, yet opening open air markets and reopening notredame, Descartes is confused,
remember the parody of ken burns narrating star wars,
""IHME now projects total CV deaths at 60K through Aug 4th."
I hate to be the skunk at the picnic, but these numbers are kinda, sorta, in line with the ANNUAL FLU SEASON IN AMERICA.
2015/2016: Flu: 24 million cases, 280,000 hospitalizations, 23,000 deaths.
2016/2017: Flu: 29 million cases, 500,000 hospitalizations, 38,000 deaths.
2017/2018: Flu: 45 million cases, 810,000 hospitalizations, 61,000 deaths.
2018/2019: Flu: 35 million cases, 490,000 hospitalizations, 34,000 deaths.
2019/2020: Flu: 46 million cases, 560,000 hospitalizations, 44,000 deaths.
Source: CDC, "Burden of Influenza
There should be a like or thumbs up button for comments. Ryan would get one today
. It's not a simple straightforward problem with a simple straightforward answer.
I do not accept, in the information age, that data collection and processing akin to the 1950's, is the best we can do.
It's a choice.
kind of a spectator sport
Ken B started this comment thread about the Civil War?
Nah, it can't be.
In some ways it's actually worse because there are no front lines and most of the casualties will be caused by friendly fire.
In every way it's actually worse because we're shooting ourselves in the foot for no good reason.
Back to work. Back to life.
End the panic. Risk is the cost of freedom. The risk here is almost entirely to those +70 who are morbidly obese and have co-morbidities.
Sensible young people will start doing their business on the black market. In fact, I suspect they already have.
As God is my witness, I will never go hungry again.
As long as the grocery deliveries continue.
Meanwhile: stay six feet away, Mammy.
I am Laslo.
“Get there first with the most” Wince
Last March and 42 days ago, our travelers brought forth on this continent, a new virus, conceived in a Wuhan fish market, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created ill by it.
Now we are engaged in a great viral war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so sedated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-couch of virology. We have come to dedicate a portion of that couch, as a final resting place for those who watched Netflix from that couch, so that our nation might live. Our masks are altogether fitting and proper, so we should wear them.
I am not Laslo.
Browndog said...I do not accept, in the information age, that data collection and processing akin to the 1950's, is the best we can do.
Even in the information age, it is a complicated nightmare. Again, thousands of individual inputs without a centralized collection/collating system and with standards evolving under high pressure in a constantly changing environment. You overestimate how much technology can help with a problem like this.
Ken B said...
I wonder how many of those 1861 diarists pronounced the war a hoax, or that the deaths don’t really matter, or that war killed no-one, they really died or wounds and disease.
Most of 'em were probably worried that it would be over before they could get into action. That was the considered opinion on both sides in 1861. William Tecumseh Sherman was judged insane when he accurately predicted a long, bloody war.
If you can compare the pandemic to a war, then you could label the denialists as draft dodgers and traitors.
Deep down you know this is true. It is why you people react with vile anger to KenB and auntie tim in Vermont for having the chutzpah to post contrary views which are in the grand scheme of things plain vanilla mainstream ideas. The guilty always transmit their stereotypical tells
I don't know if all societies in all eras were as blank as ours. I always though it must be so. But over the last 15 years I've been having my doubts. We may have reached the singularity, though not in the way Kurzweil envisioned.
That was very clever Bay Area Guy.
Deep down you know this is true.
Deep down you keep using this stupid tactic of pretending you can read the minds of others.
I haven't seen that "vile anger." Mostly, humor.
This "draft dodgers and traitors" thing is a completely irrelevant tangent that you bring into every issue. It's part of your Biggus Dickus obsession. I don't know what the hell that's all about, and probably neither do you.
Deep down you know this is true. It is why you people react with vile anger to KenB and auntie tim in Vermont for having the chutzpah to post contrary views which are in the grand scheme of things plain vanilla mainstream ideas. The guilty always transmit their stereotypical tells
Poor Howard. He so wants to be an influencer here in the comments but he's really more of an "influenzer" with contagious views people actively try to avoid.
(Instagram selfie with sepia-toned filter applied. A voiceover reads the ancient text, which is written in all emojis.)
Dear Ma,
I hope this text finds you well.
I'm sorry you are still confined to the rest home and I haven't been able to see you. Things here are equally as dire.
Cable still working at home, so there is some semblance of civilization, although the recent layoffs have forced me to reduce my channel selection. I hear Dana White is putting fights together on a remote island, but I will not be able to afford any pay-per-view until my employment is restored.
Domino's Pizza is truly a godsend. They generously support us through our struggles with their $5.99 for a two-topping pizza deal. I'm sure people in the future will find it funny that we found two toppings to be a blessing in these difficult times, but when you can get sausage and extra cheese -- well, that's just a welcome respite back into my memories of better times.
Finished binge-watching Buffy for the 17th time. Still no new episodes of Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee.
What's Jerry doing these days? Need to Google him later to see if he's one of the New Yorker's who's succumbed.
I must be going as the time is neigh for the Price is Right.
I pay God is with you,
Your loving son Chad
Howard is psychoanalyzing us from the couch. Better listen to him -- he has a PhD in eating stuff and opening the fridge...
Howard -- a dissertation is not about the sweet stuff you eat after dinner!
At ease, Corporal.
Howard is funny most of the time.
He gets a little weird. One day he says he's just a troll having fun and trying to rile everybody up.
The next day he want footnotes and citations.
And, it's always about his Biggus Dickus and the draft dodger traitors who stabbed him in the back. Why? Who knows?
Stay funny and troll-ish Howard. That's my advice.
In later wars, soldiers were ordered not to keep diaries. The enemy could use them to figure out the strength and movement of units, supply routes, and the level of morale.
Seems like a lot of people have Spanish flu envy, Great Depression envy, Pearl Harbor envy, 911 envy, Walking Dead envy. Get back to me when Miami and New York are finally underwater. Then we'll chronicle events in our diaries and compare notes.
Let's be sure to record the record-keeping, if only so we know how the PTB fueled the panic and justified the devastation:
"“If someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that as a COVID-19 death,” Birx said."
For some people, coronavirus will be a time to learn valuable perspective.
For others, it will be a chance to demonstrate that they still have none.
I'd think a better analogy than the Civil War would be what it was like on the home front during a big war like WWII -- with the rationing and the blackouts, but most of the real horror far away and uncertain.
yes, that's probably closer to the point, the war is invisible in some ways, but the restrictions, do punctuate the point,
@Sebastian,
"“If someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that as a COVID-19 death,” Birx said."
Which violates every standard of epidemiology, in every textbook, in every published paper in the literature, in any conceivable scientific approach.
From a group of smart guys in Switzerland:
The Italian Institute of Health moreover distinguishes between those who died from the coronavirus and those who died with the coronavirus. In many cases it is not yet clear whether the persons died from the virus or from their pre-existing chronic diseases or from a combination of both.
I had hope for Birx, but she is only a notch better than Fauci. Both need to be either muzzled or replaced.
Day 14 of the Corona Virus. It was very difficult today. I stood in line for TP and tried to buy some cat food. But they were out. The Cat gave me Hell. As God as my witness, she'll never go hungry again.
The soldiers should have stayed home, just like Ken is so heroically doing today.
"In later wars, soldiers were ordered not to keep diaries. The enemy could use them to figure out the strength and movement of units, supply routes, and the level of morale."
In the Civil War, all this intelligence information was already known or of little use. The most important facts: Where was the opposing army RIGHT NOW, and how many men did they have per regiment. Both sides often knew which regiments were with what army, but they didn't know whether any particular regiment had 800 men or 300. At Gettysburg, Meade thought Lee had at least 90-100,000 men, when he had 70,000.
I was a history major.
People in a hundred years almost certainly won't be talking about this, for the same reasons most folks don't care about the health and economic realities of previous generations.
Sheesh, we think we have to go back to the black plague to think about epidemics, when polio caused significant crises in the last century.
The only way it will be talked about is if there's long term social change from getting used to remote work or lifestyles. But that is likewise not likely.
Battle Hymn of the Pandemic -- Marine Corps style:
From the Halls of Wuhan Fish market
To the shores of Italy;
We fight our viral battles
In the air, on land, or tv;
First to fight for right and freedom
And to get that darn vaccine;
We are proud to claim the title
Of United States Marine.
Traitors, now. Oh my.
Just so we are clear, here is what I see (as opposed to views placed upon those like me by some in this community)
• I do not ‘deny’ that the Corona virus is dangerous.
• I do believe we are proceeding with piecemeal information that is extruded into predictions that keep shifting, and may indeed in part reflect projected thinking of those providing the information.
• I do not believe it is a ‘flu’. I do believe the symptoms are worse, etc etc.
• I do think the flu comparisons are appropriate when talking about the number of deaths this country has routinely absorbed in the past years — absorbed without panic and shutting down the economy.
• I do think every death is a tragedy to those who knew and loved them. I believe that tragedy is the same whether they died from corona or the flu.
• I do believe that you have to measure potential deaths with the effects of the quarantine. To say that means ‘accepting deaths’ is to instill a purity test while avoiding responsible evaluation of all ramifications of the situation.
• to say we are going overboard in our reaction is not the same as saying we should not be doing anything; again, this is avoiding responsible evaluation of all ramifications of the situation. In the Civil War context, we are treating all injuries as requiring amputation.
• I do find it interesting that the social distancing will have the effect of lowering flu deaths, also, which we have never taken such measures to prevent. As in: you could just as soon argue that the worst-case-scenario Covid commenters evidently didn’t care last year about grandmas and grandpas dying from the flu or other transmitted diseases as they blithely lived their lives.
• I believe that people need to take a fair share of personal responsibility in their actions: someone in a high-risk group should take more precautions because it is the wise thing to do, not because the government mandates it upon everyone.
• I do believe that going overboard now will severely undermine future situations such as this in regards to people’s cooperation and trust.
• I do fear we are setting a benchmark for letting the government take over our liberties. Much like the post-9/11 laws that went from good faith to being abused by the CIA / FBI / etc regarding Russia-Russia-Russia, these genies never seem to quite fit back into the bottle.
• I do not believe it is a hoax. I do believe there are those acting in bad faith, most of the media being a prime example, and painting a picture much worse than many are experiencing. At the same time, those who are hurt by the economic aspects seem to have no representation in the media at all.
• I do not value my 401k more than someone’s life. However, it IS an important part of my life and future. Receiving lectures from those with pensions funded by the private sector — pensions safe from most of the adverse effects — is (in an example I used before) those in the lifeboat telling those in the water to just swim faster.
• I do think we won’t know the bigger picture of these days for many years later. By that point it won’t matter: bridges will have been burned, and precedents set. A government that can shut everything down so easily? You have set the framework for your children and grandchildren to experience this over and over, for less and less reason.
• I do believe what the government is demanding is not that far off from what the Third Amendment was written to prevent.
That should be enough straw to build a Wicker Man.
I am Laslo.
Paddy O is right. We have 1,000 books on WW I. We have maybe 10 on the Spanish Flu.
>>it is your documentation of your experience living during the COVID-19 pandemic and quarantine that will allow the Society to share history with people living 100 years from now.<<
Get serious. 100 years from now people will not have the vaguest idea what the centennially insignificant COVID-19 pandemic was -- and will care even less.
At Gettysburg, Meade thought Lee had at least 90-100,000 men, when he had 70,000.
Meade was the best of the lot at that time.
Earlier Union generals (e.g., Joe Hooker) way overexaggerated Confederate strength in order to justify their slowness of thought and movement.
When I see people dying in the streets, bodies piling up, the stench of COVID death everywhere, I will consider writing a diary to preserve the sights and sounds of the horror for future generations of Mankind. If this plague passes and my life is spared, I will turn the diary into a fictional account, but I will write a factual introduction.
I just need a title for this tome. Hmmmmmmm...
"Bedtime for Bonzo" doesn't quite sound right.
Totally trolled Thomas and then he ponders why my trolling doesn't look like trolling so I must not really be a troll.
I think it's so cute he doesn't know how it all works
Another way to look at it is the pandemic that everyone is going through is what it was maybe like for the families back home during a major war like the civil War or world War II. Not the wars on terror unfortunately. We all were too busy shopping to give a s***.
they mean to change things
Paddy O: I hope you're right no one hundred years from now will give a s***. What is more likely is that this pandemic will be the first of many to follow that will perhaps get very bad. Unless of course we decide to take more proactive action. I do appreciate your hopeful Outlook, but that's sort of optimistic cockiness can get you into trouble if you don't put it in the proper perspective.
Howard
Exactly. This blog is littered with mockery from the regulars of CNN, Biden, Democrats, and scientists who warn about covid. But when Tim or I mock *them* they howl like stuck pigs.
Entry from May 21st, 2020:
We are down to our last two squares of Charmin UltraSoft.....all is lost.
Your unilateral declarations of victory are hilarious, Howard.
I can just see you clapping your hands together and smacking your lips.
This episode will be remembered as the opening round of war between the U.S. and China.
So far, you’re all in on the side of China, Howard.
Oh, I do see people in the future talking about this. How we foolishly wreaked the US economy in a panicky over-reaction to a so-so virus outbreak whose main effect was to time-shift the deaths of those who would otherwise die in the near future.
I couldn't have written it better than Laslo if I took all four years of this war to try to do so.
"Because staying home all day watching Netflix is just like the Civil War."
Well, no, but it might be quite a bit like being "stationed at Camp Randall in Madison, Wisconsin" during the Civil War. Except for the Netflix.
N.J. orders all state and county parks and forests closed indefinitely to fight coronavirus outbreak
Abbott orders all Texas state parks to close
There are many, easy steps to keep the parks open and maintain physical distancing.
BAN ALL THE THINGS! is the first step when you don't want to put in the time and effort to solve a very solvable problem.
Meade, thank you for your service.
"Earlier Union generals (e.g., Joe Hooker) way overexaggerated Confederate strength in order to justify their slowness of thought and movement."
Everyone in the North did. Grant claimed to have fought 70,000 confederates at Shiloh. He actually fought 40,000.
Why is Texas going crazy? They have very, very, few deaths and hospitalizations. Its getting like Calf. - 39 million people and 400 Corona Deaths.
Thanks Laslo...exactly right.
Because staying home all day watching Netflix is just like the Civil War.
Haha! Can't wait for the Ken Burns COVID-19 documentary series.
"Dearest Mother,
The boys and I are halfway through rewatching Season 6 of The Office. These are the times that try men's souls.
Your loving son,
Jeddediah"
ST:” So far, you’re all in on the side of China, Howard.”
That's hilarious, coming from a man daily peddling the communist line that releasing covid on the world wasn’t so bad.
Shutdowns are a virus. No one is immune to it.
I have written it before- you have this month to start reopening the economy- if you don't, you won't have one left by Summer. Maybe a vaccine will magically appear, but you can't be planning on it. All these government employees "working" from home are in for a big shock in about 2-3 months when the states and cities can't pay their salaries because tax revenues have collapsed.
Grant got surprised, twice in a few months. He over-reported CS numbers (almost ALL generals overestimate enemy numbers) at times.
He also fought and won, whether he knew precise enemy numbers or not. And the intelligence services got better.
Narr
He's a standout
That's hilarious, coming from a man daily peddling the communist line that releasing covid on the world wasn’t so bad.
Actually, what I've said is that that release was intentional, and intended to cause the very panic you keep fanning.
Grant got surprised, twice in a few months. He over-reported CS numbers (almost ALL generals overestimate enemy numbers) at times.
He also fought and won, whether he knew precise enemy numbers or not. And the intelligence services got better.
Narr
He's a standout
"but that's sort of optimistic cockiness can get you into trouble if you don't put it in the proper perspective."
It's not so much optimistic as honest about human society. This seems extraordinarily bad because it's the thing that is happening right now. It is also something the whole world is dealing with. But COVID-19 doesn't rank anything near the sorts of events that are seared into historical memory. Maybe it will for Italy. Likely it will for China, since this seems to be a watershed moment for their global role. Maybe even for New Yorkers for the next century. But after that? It'll be remembered by those specializing in pandemic responses.
Again, it's not that I'm optimistic as much as I know what it takes for events to be remembered by future generations. This isn't one of those things. Maybe it will become that, but it's no where near that yet.
Roughcoat, the WHS has a very fine website.
Narr
Green with envy
Echoing what others, esp Laslo, has said, we don't need to choose between "this is nothing" and "this is the end of the world as we know it." We can be cautious without giving into panic, though a lot of people don't know that. We can see this as serious in this season without thinking it's some kind of historically profound moment.
I would like to think this all will cause us to rethink how much we really do need to commute, and how much can be done without adding more pollution, and how we get caught up in frenzies that aren't needed, and how much of how we think things have to be done are simply because that's how they've been done before technology gave us more options. But more likely, in 2021, most everyone will just be acting like they did in 2019, only buying less TP because they have a garage full to get through.
The longstanding impact will be diversifying manufacturing locations and undermining China's domination. It will also have a significant amount of small scale impact from local changes, such as the decline of sex trade, less traffic accidents, and other things that change people's story lines for the good and sometimes the worse. But history rarely remembers those things.
I can't wait for the personal diaries describing the Battles of Westchester and Hoboken, and the posthumous publication of "The Diary of Tom Hanks."
Authorities have ramped up their crackdown on people being outside. This is the complete opposite of gearing up to open up the economy and let people work, even in light of the deeply revised computer models.
We're screwed.
What’s more, we are only 4 days away from the projected apex and only 25% of the way to the total deaths. How does that work?
What Laslo said.
“ I do think the flu comparisons are appropriate when talking about the number of deaths this country has routinely absorbed in the past years — absorbed without panic and shutting down the economy.”
I will respond only to this one new song.
Flu deaths are not probitive to the question of how many will be infected with the Corona virus, nor how speedily, nor to the question of what it will do to our hospitals, economy, or social order. They tell us nothing how many lives and livelihoods covid threatens. They tell us nothing, in other words, of the very different danger represented by covid. The only question they are roped in to answer is “why should I care?”.
This can provide some historical context.
OK this
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus/
The Canadian economy is almost entirely dependent on America.
I look forward the the Canadian Depression of 2020.
I don’t usually praise Laslo’s comments, out of envy, but his 10:06 summary is the best response to the Because Science! crowd I’ve seen.
Ken, deaths from influenza are not probative of the dangers of ChiCom Fever, but they do show that you don’t give a shit about thousands of deaths per year unless they can blamed on Orange Man Bad.
Birkel, slaving away day after day to elect Democrats. Not his intent of course.
A good Twitter thread. Warning: contains evidence.
https://twitter.com/JDVance1/status/1247727105867210756
You elect whatever fuckwit Canadian you like to direct the tatters of your former economy.
I am rooting against you.
“• I do not ‘deny’ that the Corona virus is dangerous.”
The optimistic estimate is that covid is ten times as mortal as the flu. The pessimistic estimate is 30 times. We don’t know yet.
It can also infect more people than the flu, maybe 4 or 5 times as many. So it is a serious threat to kill forty, fifty, sixty times as many as the flu. Two million is a realistic fear, but not a worst case. And it does not just kill. It damages lungs, hearts, kidneys. It send a significant fraction of its victims to hospital, for weeks.
You say you don’t deny it’s a danger but I think you slight and ignore the danger so much as to be close to denial. The man who squirts lighter fluid on a burning fire doesn’t deny that it’s dangerous, if you ask him. But I think he really does. I think you really do, with the virus.
I have seen estimates that the Canadian economy is unsustainable without American customers.
Good.
Ken B said ... “The optimistic estimate is that covid is ten times as mortal as the flu. The pessimistic estimate is 30 times. We don’t know yet.
You are so full of shit, Ken. Take a chill pill. Your hysteria is getting to be annoying.
There is no way to even guess at the mortality rate until you can derive a reasonably good guess at the denominator.
Francisco D
I posted a link earlier today that discussed just that issue: the mortality rate. We do know the denominator in parts of Italy. In those parts the mortality is 1.7%
Remember when BAG used to dismiss deaths by citing things like “2.93 deaths per million”? That was a couple weeks ago. It’s 44 deaths per million now. To denialists that might count as a rounding error, but to me it looks like a rapid increase.
Ken B said... Francisco D
I posted a link earlier today that discussed just that issue: the mortality rate. We do know the denominator in parts of Italy. In those parts the mortality is 1.7%
Are you dense? Do you have any common sense?
Even Italy does not know the correct denominator. We and they will know the (obviously lower) number after further investigation.
Take a pill Sonny. You are either hysterical or really really stupid. Or both.
Concern troll shows concern.
They will not be recording the Coronavirus impact; they will be recording the government, media and social media shit-show. Because, based on the numbers, that’s the most significant historical event at the moment. The virus is secondary.
I happen to be reading Mary Chesnut's diary. She's wittily chatty about the Jeff Davis cabinet and the goings-on in Charleston and Richmond.
https://docsouth.unc.edu/southlit/chesnut/maryches.html
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