April 13, 2020

"I’ve seen a lot of pieces about couples co-quarantining, but what I haven’t seen is a piece about significant others who don’t live together."

"My boyfriend and I live about an hour apart and until quarantine hit we were spending our weekends together. Now, he’s nervous about us infecting each other. I don’t know how to handle this, especially because all of my friends with significant others are still seeing them."/"The good news is that if you’re both self-isolating without roommates or other people, you should be fine to see each other and spend the weekends together, etc. You can consider yourselves to be a two-person household."

From "Will Single People Ever Have Sex Again?/How To Plague: Is it OK for couples who live separately to see each other — and what’s wrong if one of them refuses? Our advice column for life under the coronavirus" (at BuzzFeed News).

The idea expressed here isn't limited to sexual relationships. Can't any 2 households "consider" themselves a single household once they've been isolated for, say, 2 weeks? I had that question and went looking for the answer and found that sex-oriented discussion. But the same reasoning would apply to wanting to spend time with friends or family. I'm not seeing much talk about this proposition, perhaps because the experts and politicians don't trust us to reason our way through this and think we need big, blunt, concrete rules. And yet, as the discussion turns toward easing our way back to something like normal life, this seems like the sort of thinking that should encouraged. If we can trust people to think for themselves. I'm not that sure we can. People will justify doing the things they want to do. But perfection isn't needed. Some disease will be passed along, whatever we do, and the goal has never been to stop all transmission, just to slow it way down. So maybe start giving people some principles to follow and encourage us to move carefully toward interaction with our fellow humans.

47 comments:

Wilbur said...

Me so horny.

JAORE said...

"If we can trust people to think for themselves. I'm not that sure we can. People will justify doing the things they want to do. But perfection isn't needed. Some disease will be passed along, whatever we do, and the goal has never been to stop all transmission, just to slow it way down. So maybe start giving people some principles to follow and encourage us to move carefully toward interaction with our fellow humans."

Wise words, IMO.

But not, seemingly, reflected by elected officials with their decrees. Or by the enforcers of those decrees.

Then there is this:

OOOoohhh,I say neighbor Sam let a woman into his house. "Hello, 9-11".


JAORE said...

"say" is saw

Chanie said...

But nobody truly quarantines 100%. We all go out a little bit -- to the store, for a bike ride, to take pictures of the sunrise. When you start bending the rule to allow multi-home "households" the risk of any one home become affected and then spreading it throughout the household increases. And once that rule is bent a little it will bend a lot. It's not just me and my significant other, it's also my mother. And my sister and her family. And her father-in-law. And on and on.

traditionalguy said...

Maybe Declare yourselves a Church. It worked for the marijuana church. And it’s a lot like snake handling.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

Alternative headline: How did young people get so gutless? I would dump him/her in a heartbeat.

Oso Negro said...

It's my informed opinion that people who are worried about getting Chinese Communist Flu from each other have no business fucking at all.

holdfast said...

The dude is clearly trying to ditch her and / or he's "quarantining" with someone else on the side.

Dave Begley said...

The NYT will eventually tell us what to do. Then CNN and Dr. Gupta.

Wince said...

Every Sunday is Palm Sunday from hereon out.

Ann Althouse said...

"But nobody truly quarantines 100%..."

Quarantine is the wrong word for what we are doing... unless we actually have disease symptoms or know exposure to the disease.

What we're doing is social distancing. That doesn't mean we're imprisoned indoors. The distance you're ordered to keep is from other people. Going outdoors is not a violation. I, for one, am 100% complying with social distancing, as defined in the order imposed by my state's governor. And I've done more, because I have not gone inside one single place that is not my home.

Chris N said...

At Peace Plaza East, we have restrictive breeding rules but we also celebrate sexual liberation. This includes sex Ed for the youngsters and all species non gender conformity. It is the latest Science.

Once we disinfect your unit, issue the latest Sexual Health and Safety regs AND have our Leader approve and bless your sexual coupling with a unit walkthrough, you are CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF.

Namaste.

Michael K said...

And God help you if you try to plant a garden in Michigan.

Insanity seems to be even more contagious that WuFlu.

Temujin said...

According to the Governor of Michigan, you cannot go to your other house in Michigan, even if you live alone and are going to your other house- which is empty- alone.

For Whitmer, I suspect it depends on what the meaning of the word 'self' is.

Leland said...

I'm aboard about allowing people to choose how best to protect themselves, and judging by the folks at the grocery store; so do many of my neighbors.

Back to the couple; if your single and living at home alone and want to visit your boyfriend, who is also single and living at home alone, and he's afraid to see you for fear of being sick; I think it is time to find a new and better boyfriend. The one you have won't be there for you when you need him.

Chris N said...

You also don’t have deeper nor more urgent need to leave your house as of now (sex, love, money, hunger, crisis)

You are a good planner, but plans can change. Hopefully this all goes well.

rhhardin said...

An N-person household has to quarantine for 2N weeks, but that's an unlikely limit compared to 2 weeks.

The worst case is that they all have symptomless infection and pass it on one to the other at the end of their contagious time. Not very likely compared to one infects all the others at about the same time, and at least one shows symptoms furthermore.

Chanie said...

"Quarantine is the wrong word for what we are doing..."

The point stands whatever you want to call it. It's like unprotected sex. You're sleeping with everyone your partner slept with before you. Not literally of course, but the exposure concept is similar.

curt said...

This little lady is so screwed.

Fernandinande said...

Alternative headline: How did young people get so gutless?

Good question. Too much safety in their young lives, for starters. Some college kids claim that they nearly faint if someone gives them a dirty look.

But the hysterical media, that keeps pushing the horror stories, is run by old farts; the chairman of Buzzfeed is 68 years old (#metoo).

In addition to the media's regular lying and sensationalism, I can't help but think they want to protect their own asses at the expense of other people; and maybe they're fat, too (#notme).

Besides all that, the letter to the advice columns is probably fake.

mockturtle said...

Now, he’s nervous about us infecting each other.

Time for a new boyfriend.

Fernandinande said...

"Existential distancing and social distancing "usually act simultaneously," but democracy "as a rule tends to diminish social distance and uncover the purely existential relationships" between persons." -- 1958

"A long research tradition has demonstrated that expressed attitudes regarding social distancing from members of minority groups are poor predictors of actual behavior when confronted by members of that group." -- 1978 (same link)

Dust Bunny Queen said...

That doesn't mean we're imprisoned indoors.

Kind of depends on what State you live in and how your local Police/Sheriffs want to interpret the suggestions. Our local law enforcement could care less if you are out and about. Other locations, the inner Nazi is rampant. Your papers pleeeze!!!

In some places people are being pulled over and fined for merely driving in their own cars. For parking in a Church parking lot and listening on their radios to a sermon. For walking alone in a park or paddling on a board in the Ocean with no one around. Being told you cannot go to your own property if you have a vacation house or second home.

They aren't going door to door to check to see if you are home and properly using those Lysol wipes. But the mentality is there.

That being said, I don't want to go to "visit" other people in their houses and socialize. They can't come to my house either. We do go to the stores and Dumbplumber (hubby) is working everyday, however, his work doesn't require him to interact closely with people.

Too many casual social interactions just exacerbate the chances that the virus will be spread. For now. Eventually we HAVE to mingle...otherwise how can we have "herd immunity".

Temujin said...

I suggest they get to an attorney and get an amendment to the contract they have regarding touching or penetration. Cover themselves for any liability involved with being in a relationship.

The lost generation.

Fernandinande said...

Our local law enforcement could care less if you are out and about.

Same here; the sheriff said he has better things to do.

"herd immunity"

I wonder if it should be "flock immunity" because sheeple. But maybe just flock immunity for bird flu, ha ha.

WK said...

“ Now, he’s nervous about us infecting each other. I don’t know how to handle this, especially because all of my friends with significant others are still seeing them."

It’s not you - it’s me..... he is using Corona virus as a way to end relationship. She is getting dumped.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

My daughter's lifelong best friend lives in the house behind us; we are literal over the fence neighbors. We are close with the family. While we are observing our local edict regarding socializing (we are not to socialize with anyone we do not live with) and distancing, we make an exception for this family. They haven't seen anyone but us for a month; we haven't seen anyone but them for a month; we might as well be one large extended family who lives in two adjacent buildings that comprise one household. I can't see any way that could harm anyone.

I notice neighbors are bending rules also. Next door lady had her elderly (!) parents over the other day. Single guy across the street stood in his garage brazenly drinking beers with a buddy for a couple of hours and has lady friends come by for sleepovers a couple times a week.

Yes, I am nosy and pay attention to what is happening around me, but I don't tell anyone what to do and I just want to know which way the wind is blowing. And on my street, it's blowing toward e-fucking-nough already. Which is something the pro-extended-distancing people should be aware of.

dbp said...

My Daughter and her guy have gone the opposite direction: They are both grad students who live three hours from each other. Now that both of them are doing all their work remotely, there is no reason to only see each other on weekends; they've chosen to stay together at one location. It helps that both of them have room mates who have decamped for home, so there is room at both their apartments.

bagoh20 said...

If people were fed info about all the other risks they accept everyday the way this risk is being reported, a lot of people would never get out of bed, NEVER. They would never even have been born. The experts are now predicting we will end up with about 254 deaths in Nevada out of 3 Million people by the time this is over in August. You have better odds of being dealt a Royal Flush and winning 4000 times your bet without even having to draw a card. That is possible though, so lets go empty our bank accounts and give it go.

Clayton Hennesey said...

Perhaps the less savory Gammas, Deltas and Epsilons unable to avoid visiting locations other than their home for food and other requirements can be forced to wear green, khaki and black, respectively, so that the wiser amongst us may immediately recognize them and be properly protected from their foolishness.

Even better, they should be required to carry a government card certifying their being disease free to be allowed out in public at all.

Eleanor said...

I live alone. I have a friend who lives alone. I get our groceries delivered. She takes the list of what didn't come and hunts that stuff down in the grocery store, We exchange what we have the other needs once a week. We could move in together and be a "household" for the duration, but we'd drive each other nuts. Technically. we're breaking the rules. If we followed them, we'd be in contact with two sets of delivery personnel and in two grocery stores. Seeing each other in person once a week is something that helps us get through the rest of the week living alone.

mockturtle said...

I do my own shopping but wear a mask and disposable gloves. Some of my neighbors had company over the weekend and no one was arrested that I know of.

tim in vermont said...

This is why God gave us judgement, to make decisions like this.

For example: "If we followed them, we'd be in contact with two sets of delivery personnel and in two grocery stores. Seeing each other in person once a week is something that helps us get through the rest of the week living alone.”

At bottom, there has to be a little bit of fatalism too or life is impossible. It just shouldn’t be your go to philosophy.

bagoh20 said...

Some people are setting themselves up to live like hermits from now on, unless they change their thinking. Use data, but you have to avoid the main stream media. It is not doing you any favors. There is a very good chance that, if not with this episode, then in a future one millions of lives could be lost from disinformation traveling at the speed of light.

I don't know if anyone has written one yet, but a good plot for a novel would be an apocalypse caused by the media alone without any actual disease or war being the cause, but rather the narrative. It seems entirely plausible now. The real-life response to the first airing of "War of the Worlds" is a good example that could be easily scaled up "exponentially" with modern media tools.

Derve Swanson said...

Blogger tim in vermont said...

This is why God gave us judgement, to make decisions like this.
--------
How far you go with that?
Can I disregard any rule that doesn't benefit me personally because I want to think for myself?

I suspect, a lot of businesses that benefit by illegal workers -- Uber Lyft the food delivery places etc -- tend to think the same as you. Better workers are illegals. Hire them. Damn the rules and regulations...

Guy who fished the infected bat out of the lab trash and sold it on the wet market. He was ignoring the rules and operatng on what was best for him too. Slippery slope: I would argue the ladies shopping together are sharing an essential service and not breaking the social distancing rules in the first place. She's not bending, she's following them under the grocery exception. BIG difference...

jaydub said...

"I, for one, am 100% complying with social distancing, as defined in the order imposed by my state's governor. And I've done more, because I have not gone inside one single place that is not my home."

Well, not all of us are sheep. I'm self isolating right now because there is no where to go and because I'm in a slightly higher risk group, not because some politician told be to. In fact, until I fully understood the risks I would be doing the same thing whether our esteemed governor wanted me to or not. The reported death rate in my state of 10.5 million is 8.1 per million, but those are people who have died while having Wuflu and not necessarily from Wuflu itself. In my county of 533,000 there are 135 laboratory confirmed cases. Bottom line is I suspect that the probability of me contracting Wuflu someone in my state is not much higher than someone from my state contracting it from me, and I don't have it. This current isolation scheme is a great CYA move on the part of a government that is so stupid as to treat our state the same as NYC, regardless the vast differences in demographics and population density. I give them until the end of the month to put sensible measures in place then it's civil disobedience time.

mikee said...

Are Tinder, Grindr, and other social sex-networking apps still going, or have they been shut down as part of the virus control? I don't know because I'm married and 60+ and faithful, and I don't care to look, but hey, the question arises and I wonder why they would be allowed to continue right now.

Derve Swanson said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Yancey Ward said...

If you want to visit other households, just put up a sign saying it is an abortion clinic.

Birches said...

My kids have been playing with the other culdesac kids on our street. No one has gone anywhere and they have been playing with each other until the shutdown. I kinda figured if anyone was infected we were screwed anyway. They're outside though. I wouldn't have anyone over.

J said...

Many of these cases/hotspots are nursing homes. Has there been any discussion of limiting the number of residents per location at these places? That seems like a targeted approach that would limit spread among the highly vulnerable. I understand you can't snap your fingers and create more care facilities but maybe we could use this shutdown time to work in that direction. In our area (Seattle) the healthcare system is NOT overloaded, and I think more people are less anxious about contracting the disease (or any other disease/injury) if the normal medical resources are available.

J said...

Birches--same. My kids have been playing with neighborhood kids, mostly riding bikes. We try to limit playing tag, or climbing all in one tree together, or sharing snacks. But eventually we're gonna have to loosen up. My single father-in-law ate Easter dinner with us.

Zach said...

Living an hour apart is a tough call. That means they're really in two different risk pools, and having contact with each other is greatly decreasing the "social distance" between their two towns.

Before, it might have taken three or four hops to make it from one town to another. And most of those hops are just incidental contact. Now you're connecting the two towns by one hop involving intimate contact. And it's every weekend, not just a one time thing.

I'd say move in together or stay apart.

Lucien said...

Remember when people wore “Question Authority” shirts? Now it’s “Is my groveling low enough?” Ann is satisfied because she is complying with the orders she has been given, no matter how stupid or inadequate they may be.

Joanne Jacobs said...

Some of our family members with young children and nearby grandparents have decided they are all one household. The (healthy, not too old) grandparents come over to care for the kids while the parents are working from home or the kids go to the grandparents so the parents can work from home. I assume the grandparents have decided the risks are so slight -- and the mental health benefits are so great -- that it's worth it.

Kirk Parker said...

Fernandistein,

"I wonder if it should be 'flock immunity' because sheeple."

Well, cattle aren't really known for being independent thinkers, either, so "herd" still works fine. Plus, they are attempting to stampede us (to our detriment)...



Kirk Parker said...

WK,

So is "virusing" better than "ghosting"?