March 20, 2020

"Red and Blue America Aren’t Experiencing the Same Pandemic/The disconnect is already shaping, even distorting, the nation’s response."

From the perspective of Ronald Brownstein in The Atlantic:
A flurry of new national polls released this week reveals that while anxiety about the disease is rising on both sides of the partisan divide, Democrats consistently express much more concern about it than Republicans do, and they are much more likely to say they have changed their personal behavior as a result. A similar gap separates people who live in large metropolitan centers, which have become the foundation of the Democratic electoral coalition, from those who live in the small towns and rural areas that are the modern bedrock of the GOP.....

If the virus never becomes pervasive beyond big cities, that could reinforce the sense among many Republican voters and office-holders that the threat has been overstated...

“There’s a long history of conservatives demonizing the cities as sources of disease to threaten the ‘pure heartland,’” says Geoffrey Kabaservice, the director of political studies at the libertarian Niskanen Center and the author of Rule and Ruin, a history of the modern Republican Party.....

“This is something we’ve gone through a while here among Republicans,” Kabaservice says. “The feeling increasingly is that experts and the media are all part of this elite class that is self-dealing and is looking down on less-educated and less-fortunate people, and [that] they can’t be trusted to tell the truth.” He adds, “That dynamic … has been reinforced” by the emergence of the “conservative media ecosystem,” which unstintingly presents “elites” as a threat to viewers....

173 comments:

DKWalser said...

It's not surprising that a communicable disease is seen as a greater threat by those in denser population regions than by those in more sparsely populated areas. For some parts of the country, social distancing is a way of life.

Temujin said...

Democrats tend to gather in the larger urban areas. They are clustered more densely. They are more dependent on government services (i.e. transportation), and are less likely to be independent and self-sufficient.

Republicans tend to live on the outer rings of the urban centers, and spread out from there to the smaller towns, rural areas. These people have their guns, trucks, churches. The are more independent, more self-sufficient and less dependent on their government.

Republicans tend to be more optimistic people about recovery, picking oneself up by your bootstraps, helping your neighbor. Democrats tend to be sorrowful, less optimistic people, hand-wringing not only about the virus, but what we call the virus.

Phil 314 said...

“Now before I give you a dose of versed, shove this tube into your windpipe and put you on a ventilator, I need to ask you:

‘Who did you vote for in 2016?’”

Said by no one.

stlcdr said...

As Temujin said at 7:03 AM. The difference is rather obvious.

Gusty Winds said...

Even yesterday. Trump never claimed Cloroquine was an FDA approved drug to treat the the virus. 1) He stated early trials were looking good (true), 2) It is an already approved drug for use to treat other diseases 3) the FDA would move quickly to approve testing and use when more info is available.

And....CNN and NYT publishes a "fact check", that Trump claimed the FDA approved the drug as a treatment. Own it liberals. Your media outlets thrive off creating doubt and panic.

pchuck1966 said...

Gusty - "Middle America"?

stonethrower said...

This is very sad. It shows the problem of embedding people too deeply in government.

Mattman26 said...

“this elite class that is self-dealing and is looking down on less-educated and less-fortunate people, and [that] they can’t be trusted to tell the truth.”

Where would anyone get such an idea?

rhhardin said...

I've noticed that emerging next day delivery of DVDs from Amazon has stopped. Now they expect a week delay. That's not nothing in the heartland.

stlcdr said...

I do object to the word 'disconnect', though. It has a negative connotation, that those of us in the country aren't taking it seriously. We are, it's just that our behavior has to change very little. As I've said before, out in the sticks, the biggest problem is toilet paper. Everything else is, literally, the same.

Birches said...

I just read through the article through RCP before you posted it. What dreck! How can you write an entire article about Red/Blue actions and reactions without mentioning Ohio's governor? Easily. When the facts don't fit your narrative.

Gusty Winds said...

Dow futures are up this morning amid stimulus news and progress on the use of possible effective drugs for treatment. Trumps job is to inform, and also provide hope to calm panic. He has to beat the virus and save the economy.

Neither victory, which would be good for the human race, and...all Americans, does anything positive for the mainstream media and Democrats.

TRISTRAM said...

It has been noted before that events in NYC have a disproportionate effect on national news.

rhhardin said...

Insty reported yesterday a bank that had offered interest-only payment on loans to small businesses until the Feds told it to stop. It makes those loans troubled loans and counts against the bank's capital.

Jeff Weimer said...

These people will not miss an opportunity to rock their anti-Trump and anti-Republican hobbyhorses. It's an epidemiological fact that big cities are more at risk for this type of pandemic, and complaining Republicans are celebrating it is false, much more false than those on the left we have *witnessed* openly cheering the economic disruption and possible death of "older people who skew Republican" merely because it may improve their electoral chances.

And the Niskanen center isn't libertarian by any measure. It seems the author put that in to give them an undeserved sheen of credibility.

Shouting Thomas said...

I don't read the op-eds any more. I scan the headlines at Real Clear Politics.

Op-eds are almost entirely wishful thinking on the part of the writer. It's in the nature of writing to dramatize, and the rewards in the internet era are entirely on the side of hysterical dramatization.

The past 20 years of internet driven panic and hysteria have dramatically lowered my opinion of writers and artists in general. In the liberal community, these professions are generally seen as caring and driven by the desire to educate.

That's seldom true. Those professions are mostly home to reckless drama queens determined to advance their personal ambitions with dramatic presentations. And, most of those writers and artists aren't very smart.

tim in vermont said...

The Atlantic is to China what Hop Sing was to the Cartwrights. I am not sure I am interested in what they have to say.

Lurker21 said...

I don't think so. There may be a perception in the Republican states that the Democrats are using the crisis to advance their own political goals, but that's different from saying or thinking that the virus isn't serious.

There are always cranks and trolls who pit one region against another, but I think most people recognize that what's New York's or Los Angeles's problem today may be their problem tomorrow.







bagoh20 said...

There are advantages to being flown over and looked down upon from 30,000 ft.

JAORE said...

The response, IMO, is unbelievably overblown. There is NO way to accurately determine the number of infected (some non-symptomatic". There is no way to know how many cases are "flu like" versus Corona virus.

I was in Las Vegas last week. Then off to Utah, Nevada and Arizona on motorcycles. Shows cancelled, hotels closed. Food only per take out.

Insane based on what we know at this time.

We are taking the worst case projections and extrapolating unimpeded..

This isn't policy, it's panic.

RMc said...

I'm sure a guy who writes a book about Republicans with a title like "Rule and Ruin" isn't the slightest bit biased.

bagoh20 said...

It's inarguable that the left has a never-ending, overlapping set of constantly evolving catastrophes that they peddle non-stop. It's their primary means of obtaining power. The right has some of it's own, but the ratio is very one-sided. And lets not forget that the left was praying for something like this to go wrong under Trump. In their passion to damage him they ignored the damage they were asking for all of us.

Is there any doubt that if this was mostly affecting the right that they would be telling us how we deserved it? I don't want any of us to be hurt by this, not even if it was exclusive to those who despise me, and I don't care who gets credit for fixing it, as long as it's the truth.


rcocean said...

Hello? The threat is much more serious in Big densely populated cities with large numbers of immigrants, than small towns and rural areas. That's why Newsome "locking down" the whole state was insane. People in the vast spaces of "red America" are already 'Socially isolated'. They shouldn't have their economy wrecked so people in big cities could feel they're not suffering alone.

rcocean said...

Everyone in the MSM, except for a few who work at Fox, are liberal Democrats and are closely tied to NYC, DC, Boston, SF, and LA. These people know NOTHING of Red State America. Plus, they think their MINORITY view is the MAJORITY view. And its not.

bagoh20 said...

Although Wisconsin did add it's first two deaths yesterday, the state also only added a single new case, and here in Nevada, we added zero, and still have the same one death from the beginning of the week. Most states are having similar or better experiences. That does not sound like an out of control epidemic. New York is another story, but most of the country is not seeing a rapid spread at all. New Yorkers should be locking down, and we should be sending them help and supplies, but the rest of the country is not the same thing?

bagoh20 said...

The internet is both great and terrible for it's ability to spread information. A true double-edged sword.

Lawrence Person said...

Maybe red America still remembers the Gods of the copybook headings...

tcrosse said...

The Telegraph reveals that private jets are flooding into Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket as the wealthy flee the virus. BTW The Vineyard has a 14-bed hospital with no ICU.

Amadeus 48 said...

“The feeling increasingly is that experts and the media are all part of this elite class that is self-dealing and is looking down on less-educated and less-fortunate people, and [that] they can’t be trusted to tell the truth.”

Sounds right to me.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

rcocean: The threat is much more serious in Big densely populated cities with large numbers of immigrants, than small towns and rural areas. That's why Newsome "locking down" the whole state was insane. People in the vast spaces of "red America" are already 'Socially isolated'. They shouldn't have their economy wrecked so people in big cities could feel they're not suffering alone.

I couldn't agree more!

Our area is rural and sparsely populated. By geography about 8 people per square mile. Which means miles and miles of open spaces. The largest population concentration near my house is 350 people. Next big area is about 2500. Just a short drive and I can be in Nevada or Oregon. (Just an artificial line on a map anyway)

Social isolation is a way of life already. So is being self sufficient and independent. We know that when push comes to shove, the "authorities" are not available for help. We help ourselves AND we help each other.

I'm sorry for the people who live in the "urban cesspools". Be safe. Try to be sane. BUT YOU PICKED THAT LIFE. I didn't.

I don't revel or take any joy in other's discomfort. I have relatives in the Bay Area. However....who is the dumb goober now? Hmmm?

RMc said...

“Now before I give you a dose of versed, shove this tube into your windpipe and put you on a ventilator, I need to ask you:

‘Who did you vote for in 2016?’


Deplorables go to the back of the line, mac.

MountainMan said...

I resent these articles by the urban elites that always portray people in small towns and rural areas as ignorant. Not always true. I could take you to several small towns, in the South even, that are loaded with highly educated people in the sciences and engineering, many with advanced degrees. I haven’t checked this lately but I think at one time Huntsville, AL had more PhDs per capita than any other city in the country. The small city where I live part-time in NE TN.- Kingsport - is still the center of region with a large manufacturing base and a large number of engineers and PhDs in the hard sciences, though not as much as 25 or so years ago (thanks for China). Same for Oak Ridge.

Leland said...

Republicans always washed their hands.

tim in vermont said...

“That dynamic … has been reinforced”

By an abundance of evidence, reinforced hourly at least on cable news. And not by the right wing media ecosystem, but by people with eyes looking at their TVs or reading the newspapers of our self-dealing ‘elites.'

tim in vermont said...

"That does not sound like an out of control epidemic. New York is another story, but most of the country is not seeing a rapid spread at all.”

Math is hard. If it doesn’t spread as fast because of the lockdowns, I am sure lots of people will say that they were not necessary. Not everybody understands the math of it, because it’s college level math we are talking about. Almost nobody takes it anymore as degree requirements have become so relaxed to avoid calculus even in some computer degrees.

Howard said...

Rcocean: much of the coastal elite was born in flyover country then moved to the liberal Coastal elite spawning grounds to get a real education and have real business opportunities. I think the problem is is that the elites know red-state folks all too well from the perspective of a ridiculed minority who couldn't wait to get out of a Tim Burton/Stephen King version of Mayberry.

narciso said...

Brownstein, wrote 'reagans ruling class when he worked for nader in 1982, so this is a very old story, he's telling,

Krumhorn said...

le that the left has a never-ending, overlapping set of constantly evolving catastrophes that they peddle non-stop. It's their primary means of obtaining power

Many lefties fervently wish that AGW had the Covid19’s press agent and publicity team.

- Krumhorn

Amadeus 48 said...

Although I don't think looking down on less-educated and less fortunate quite captures it. I am quite fortunate and quite well-educated (valedictorian of college class, UChicago Law degree), but I am confident that this fellow and his cohort would look down on me (a feeling that would be reciprocated, by the way). I think it is more a case of self-identified "experts" who look down on anyone who doesn't share their views.

If you want a hear something amusing, listen to BBC Radio 4 and the servile tone of voice their interviewers use when speaking with anyone with "Professor" in front of his or her name who is propounding some gloom and doom scenario. Do they adopt the same tone with academics who disagree with the conventional wisdom on such topics as AGW? Not at all. They rarely let them on the air. It's all settled, you see. We wouldn't want to confuse the public, would we?

Megthered said...

Out here in rural flyover country we are still laughing at you panicking metropolitan areas. Our only fear is you start running to our little burgs and bring your big city plague with you.

roesch/voltaire said...

Richard Burr is the face of the Republican Party and one reason why there is a disconnect with the Trump base. He knew about how dangerous the virus might be, told a close circle of big donors, sold off all his hotel stock, and then went on Fox to reassure the public all was well. The poor Fox viewers were duped again. I wonder if those red state Americans will send this scum packing.

Fernandistein said...

A few days ago the WSJ brewed-up a phony "war" between young and old, and now the Atlantic seems to be trying to the same thing between Dem and Reps:

If the virus never becomes pervasive beyond big cities, that could reinforce the sense among many Republican voters and office-holders that the threat has been overstated...

That's a funny way of saying that many Republican voters and office-holders might turn out to be correct. Maybe even doubleplusly so.

Lucien said...

I am not an epidemiologist, but it seems to me that one’s odds of spreading or being infected by a virus are related to the mean number of contacts one has per day — and maybe the mean number of new daily contacts.
If you live in a big city contacting scores of strangers daily, you don’t need to spend your time thinking about folks who see the same five people every day.

narciso said...

they are eloi

Sebastian said...

"But no society can safeguard public health for long at the cost of its overall economic health. Even America’s resources to fight a viral plague aren’t limitless—and they will become more limited by the day as individuals lose jobs, businesses close, and American prosperity gives way to poverty. America urgently needs a pandemic strategy that is more economically and socially sustainable than the current national lockdown."

Glimmerings of rationality in the WSJ. Belatedly following commentators here.

Let's give the old and sick one more week of collapse -- but after that, they stay away, and the rest of us rebuild.

What can't go on, won't.

Iman said...

What a revoltin' development this is. I'm going out with a bang, not a whimper.

Birkel said...

Many of us are suggesting the trade-offs involved with crushing the US economy by government order versus slowing the rate of spread of a disease with unknown characteristics is a poor choice.

But Leftists like Althouse prefer to be boring and write about one supposedly scary story repeatedly.
As a dedicated, long-term reader this is decreasing the value of the reading experience.

Matt Sablan said...

Part of this is that people don't trust the other side's media.

ColoradoDude said...

I was shocked that Brownstein didn’t use multifactorial analysis to see *why* Americans saw the coronavirus differently. He noted party and residence, but conspicuously omitted age, as one example. (Not to mention local news coverage and reporting — surely much higher in the big cities that have the most cases than in less-impacted communities.)

It is absolutely true that one’s political party affiliation can suggest which way individual Americans see public policy issues. That makes perfect sense, since our party preferences stem from our overall world views.

But age is also likely highly relevant. If you have no personal experience with past major problems in our nation, you probably don’t have the same perspective as those who well remember Vietnam or SARS or the Bird Flu of 2005 when every American was told to get a flu shot ... and we all lined up at a local school or city hall to get one.

My guess, without having searched out the polling data and done a statistical evaluation, is that, after party, age is the most likely predictor,

I’d encourage Brownstein to think a bit about doing a more detailed analysis of why we think as we do ... and not fall back on stereotypes or falling for the Hillary Clinton characterization of many Americans as “deplorables.”

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Let's give the old and sick one more week of collapse -- but after that, they stay away, and the rest of us rebuild.

I'm old. Not sick. And I approve this message.

It is my responsibility to stay home, do my best not to get sick and please please let everyone else continue to work. Ruining the economy and sending us into Mad Max territory is NOT a solution.

These lockdowns are MADNESS! This hysteria is crazy.

It does no good to have society collapse in order to save the 5% of people (estimated) who are elderly and sick.

While I don't want to die....yet.....I also want my children and grandchildren to have a decent life and seeing the ruination that is coming scares me more than death for myself.

narciso said...

indeed, coronello, they want to sow terror, I think a reasonable period of mitigation is ok, but I'm not confident we can bring things back fully,

bagoh20 said...

The population most likely to get infected is people who travel internationally and those in contact with them directly or indirectly. That's part of the reason it seems that the rich and famous are getting it so much, and why it bad where it is. The poor, the homeless, and the stay-put rural types are kinda insulated by their lack of contact with such people.

Tom T. said...

What do Brownstein and the Niskanen Center really know about how red-state people think? Besides, it's not red-state people who had to be forced not to go to the bars in Brooklyn and DC. I suspect that many of the spring-breakers on the beach were blue-state people, too.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

Progs are more prone to hysterics than conservatives. Demonstrably true long before anyone heard of KungFlu. The emotionally self-indulgent are naturally inclined to be irrational.

rehajm said...

I haven’t checked this lately but I think at one time Huntsville, AL had more PhDs per capita than any other city in the country.

...for your isolation entertainment may I recommend Rocket City Rednecks seasons 1 and 2 on Amazon Prime Video.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Krumhorn said...

I’m with Dustbunny. This is economic suicide with no clear benefit in exchange. The peak of unemployment during the Great Depression was 25%. We’ve likely exceeded that significantly now with these lockdowns.

- Krumhorn

Chris N said...

When you honor the knowledge claims of activists and what are, essentially, radicals, you change the character of your entire institution, and how individuals within it view the world.

From the Left, this has happened dramatically on many college campuses, and in publications like the Atlantic, The New Yorker, Slate etc. especially. More broadly it has an effect on society, ‘culture’, and politics.

One on one I simply do my best to avoid playing that particular game, while trying to deal with individuals.

However, this is not enough to prevent the kinds of institutional failure, resentment and ideology driven drift that’s been happening.

I keep this in mind as I read: Who does a writer imagine his audience to be and what are his career prospects at any publication.

Rick said...

“There’s a long history of conservatives demonizing the cities as sources of disease to threaten the ‘pure heartland,

Is it helpful to demonize conservatives who understand density is a risk factor to appease the left's wish that this wasn't so? Is it helpful that even in the face of a pandemic we must pretend reality doesn't exist? I'd like to understand how this is helpful.

Michael K said...

It's an epidemiological fact that big cities are more at risk for this type of pandemic,

For a thousand years, cities were population sinks, maintaining their population only by in migration, as Howard says. The residents died off but new people replaced them. This only changed after 1850 and mostly since antibiotics. Now, we have virus plagues that don't respond to antibiotics. Fortunately, chloroquine will end this and two big corporations have offered to donate millions of doses. The FDA and CDC, government bureaucracies, were unprepared as is so common with government. Fortunately, we have a president now who has a history of agile private enterprise.

Bob Boyd said...

A devoted wanker trying to get a little wankfest going...they'll do that, ya know.

Sebastian said...

"Red and Blue America Aren’t Experiencing the Same Pandemic"

Cuz we know progs were eager to tank the economy even before the Wuhan virus hit, cuz we know they don't want a crisis to go to waste, and cuz we know what they are trying to do Trump.

Todd said...

Lurker21 said...

I don't think so. There may be a perception in the Republican states that the Democrats are using the crisis to advance their own political goals, but that's different from saying or thinking that the virus isn't serious.

3/20/20, 7:24 AM


Sorry, no may be about it. The politicians are! Never let a crisis go to waste.

Rick said...

roesch/voltaire said...
Richard Burr is the face of the Republican Party and one reason why there is a disconnect with the Trump base.


It's revealing r/v doesn't mention Diane Feinstein doing the same thing. The left has always believed failures on the right contaminate everyone on the right while failures on the left are universally personal. It comes from having no principles but rather inventing and changing them as necessary to convict the right and absolve the left.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Krumhorn The peak of unemployment during the Great Depression was 25%. We’ve likely exceeded that significantly now with these lockdowns.

Exactly. In addition, the rebound of small businesses, in towns and cities, is going to be slow IF AT ALL. Once your little store, restaurant, individual endeavor has gone bankrupt, you are not likely to just MAGICALLY, spring back. There is no TA DAH...now we can go back to normal.

Big corporations might be able to weather the storm we have created. But a small company or Mom and Pop business R.I.P.

It will take YEARS to undo the damage that these over the top lockdown mandates by mostly Democrat governors and mayors are enacting. Maybe they mean well. But they are stupid and unable to understand basic economics....the the detriment of us all.

You guys may think I'm joking about Mad Max. Don't laugh too long. It is right around the corner.

Wilbur said...

Earlier this morning I went outside to pull some weeds in our garden. I listened to an AM radio sports talk show based in Miami; they were interviewing Mike Florio, who has a morning TV show on an NBC cable channel, Pro Football Talk.

He was interviewed about the NFL for 10 minutes or so, and when it was wrapping up for some reason felt compelled to spew out the canard that President Trump had called the Coronavirus "a hoax".

Totally out of place, out of line, but consistent with the leftist view that everything must be politicized because The Personal Is Political.

Lying liars gon' lie.

bagoh20 said...

"The emotionally self-indulgent are naturally inclined to be irrational."

This is a big problem in both our macro and micro worlds, and I've seen it more and more lately. It can really screw up a family, an office, a company, or a society, and it often leads to strife and economic problems that never had to be.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Plus you think the financial meltdown, that created the Tea Party in 2008, with the defaulting mortgages and collapse of the financial markets and mortgage back securities was bad?

Just wait.

People losing their jobs is a personal tragedy. This coming financial crisis is a world wide disaster. That will take decades to recover from.

Drago said...

Wilbur: "Earlier this morning I went outside to pull some weeds in our garden. I listened to an AM radio sports talk show based in Miami;"

Based on that alone, and given his long track record of far left BS, I am going to guess it was Dan Le Batard.

lane ranger said...

In the 12 months starting April 2009 (per the CDC), in the U.S., there were over 60 million infected, approx 275,000 hospitalizations and more than 12,000 deaths, all from H1N1, the swine flu. The economy was still in terrible shape from the 2008 collapse of government induced bad loans. I don't remember the country shutting down, or the economy failing to gradually improve despite many obstacles. I wonder what could explain the difference between then and now, and account for the non-panicked response in 2009-10.

ColoComment said...

rhhardin said...
Insty reported yesterday a bank that had offered interest-only payment on loans to small businesses until the Feds told it to stop. It makes those loans troubled loans and counts against the bank's capital.
3/20/20, 7:14 AM


FDIC has requested FASB to relax its regs. re: same. We'll see if/how quickly that may happen.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoinegara/2020/03/19/fdic-seeks-new-breathing-room-for-banks-to-help-small-businesses-survive-the-coronavirus/#60d0877e5f45

Drago said...

R/v: "Richard Burr is the face of the Republican Party...."

Said no one ever at any time but for some reason now needs to be true because reasons.

tim in vermont said...

""Earlier this morning I went outside to pull some weeds in our garden. I listened to an AM radio sports talk show based in Miami;”

If you haven’t watched Big Trouble, you are in for a treat. At least if you ever listened to WQAM back in the day. It was written by Dave Barry and Tim Allen plays a character based on him.

tim in vermont said...

The press pushing dishonest takes like that of r/v is why people are tuning them out.

Drago said...

You know what's really interesting?

How Diane Feinstein sold much much more stock than the republicans on the same committee sold and yet almost no one is talking about that.

BTW, Burr is an absolute disgrace and should resign tomorrow.

On the other hand, I've read that Loeffler has everything in a blind trust of some sort.

MountainMan said...

My wife and I have a subscription to newspapers.com for use in our genealogy hobby. It provides millions of pages of searchable newspapers since 1750. Over the past few days I have read every article form 2009-10 in the Atlanta-Journal Constitution on the H1N1 swine flu. Now, I know this isn't the same as the corona virus, but it was serious. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, "...the CDC estimated that from April 2009 through mid-April 2010 between 8,870 and 18,300 deaths, between 43 million and 89 million cases, and between 195,000 and 403,000 H1N1-related hospitalizations had occurred in the United States." They quit counting actual cases in July 2009 so generated estimates on collusion of the epidemic. The H1N1 actually gained a foothold in the US after crossing from Mexico; it did not originate in Asia.

It is interesting that all the articles are pretty much straight reporting. No panic, no attacking the government or blaming Obama for the snafus that always seem to occur when something like this happens, which mainly involved the development and early distribution of a vaccine, which had some issues. In fact, Obama is only mentioned one time and that is related to a quote early in the epidemic in May 2009: “President Barack Obama even voiced hope Friday that it may turn out to be no more harmful than the average seasonal flu.”

There was never any discussion of the economics of it nor any recommendations for social distance, just take normal precautions. Some schools did close late in the spring of 2009 but final recommendation from the CDC in Sept 2009, just as school was starting, did not recommend closing schools.

Only a few article are on page A1, with many articles in the back pages of that section or in the B (Metro) section. There we even some articles in a special back-of-the-paper advertising section included only in the Sunday edition.

The Dow had a bumpy ride following the 2008 meltdown but there was only minimal impact from H1N1. It climbed at a pretty health rate over the 2-year period:

DJIA: 1/1/2009 9027
DJIA: 12/31/2010 11578

Things have certainly changed.

Wilbur said...

" I am going to guess it was Dan Le Batard."

Not an unreasonable guess, but it was the Joe Rose show, which is determinedly apolitical. That bastard Florio was on as a guest. I've heard him before and he is just personally unpleasant.

"Big Trouble" - is that a TV show, movie, podcast?

ALP said...

And *within* cities journalists are whipping up more divisiveness by penning articles on how different age groups are reacting. Its almost as if the staff of the Seattle Times saw people coming together against a common enemy and thought: "Well THAT isn't good for clicks - how can we set people even more against each other?"

roesch/voltaire said...

About the Feinstein case: It was her husband who sold between $500K and $1-mil of a biotech stock on 1/31 -- when the stock was trading near its lowest ebb (it subsequently rebounded a bit.) This action wouldn't seem to be on the scumbag level of Burr's & Loeffler's maneuverings

And this from Trucker Carlson:[Burr] had inside information about what could happen to our country, which is now happening, but he didn’t warn the public. He didn’t give a prime-time address. He didn’t go on television to sound the alarm. He didn’t even disavow an op-ed he’d written just 10 days before claiming America was ‘better prepared than ever’ for coronavirus. He didn’t do any of those things. Instead, what did he do? He dumped his shares in hotel stocks so he wouldn’t lose money, and then he stayed silent. Now maybe there’s an honest explanation for what he did. If there is, he should share it with the rest of us immediately. Otherwise, he must resign from the Senate … ”

tim in vermont said...

Big Trouble is a movie

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0246464

Jack Klompus said...

Richard Burr is the face of the Republican Party

r/v is nothing if not consistently dopey and one-dimensional. I can't believe this idiot teaches college.

Michael K said...

oesch/voltaire said...
About the Feinstein case: It was her husband who sold between $500K and $1-mil of a biotech stock on 1/31 --


Of course the Feinsteins do not communicate,. How do you think he has amassed his fortune ?

tim in vermont said...

"I can't believe this idiot teaches college.”

He never. said that, he *works* at a college, my guess is emptying the waste baskets in the faculty lounge, but he may be serving lunch in the cafeteria, IDK.

Static Ping said...

The Atlantic has been pushing CCP propaganda so their opinions on matters are no longer relevant to me. It would be like reading Pravda.

Rick said...

roesch/voltaire said...
This action wouldn't seem to be on the scumbag level of Burr's & Loeffler's maneuverings


Of course the justification that it was her husband is meaningless. Seriously - it's the Hunter Biden excuse again. I'm not corrupt, my family is!

The only difference leading to r/v claiming DiFi's abuse is not on the same level is that she's a Democrat.

Drago said...

roesch/voltaire: "About the Feinstein case: It was her husband who sold between $500K and $1-mil of a biotech stock on 1/31 -- when the stock was trading near its lowest...."

LOL

Jersey Fled said...

Brownstein could have written the same story two years ago, with only a few word changes, if he substituted "Russian collusion" for "corona virus".

chuck said...

That article was xenophobic and racist.

Inga said...


“Although Wisconsin did add it's first two deaths yesterday, the state also only added a single new case, and here in Nevada, we added zero, and still have the same one death from the beginning of the week. Most states are having similar or better experiences. That does not sound like an out of control epidemic.”
—————————————————————
Three deaths now.

“The number of positive test results for COVID-19 in Wisconsin jumped almost 50% in 24 hours Thursday.

On Friday morning, the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner announced the agency was investigating the death of a 66-year-old man from complications of COVID-19

In its daily update, the Wisconsin Department of Health Services reported 155 cases in 21 counties. That's 49 more cases than Wednesday afternoon's report.”

PM said...

I can deal with a lot as long as it doesn't resemble the gas shortage of the 70s.

roesch/voltaire said...

I am sorry I should have pointed out that Kurt Loder made the tweet using the "scumbag" word and not me, but I wanted to show, along with Trucker Carlson, the outrage expressed over Burr and note the difference in time in terms of sales. Frankly I think too many. in the Republican Party have played into the support of Trump at the cost of public health and that self-interest, at the expense of the rest, is represented by Burr.

Inga said...

https://www.wbay.com/content/news/Coronavirus-cases-jump-almost-50-from-Wednesday-568934851.html

Link for excerpt above @10;38AM.

Gunner said...

That guy sounds as "libertarian" as Rob Reiner.

Yancey Ward said...

Oh, it was Feinstein's husband who sold the stock, not Feinstein herself. I mean, it isn't like they ever talk each other.

R/V, I gotta hand it to you, it takes a lot of nerve to not care how foolish and dishonest you appear, even with the anonymity of the internet.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

"Dianne Feinstein(D) who sits on the Intelligence Committee which was also briefed on coronavirus, sold up to $6m in stock"

6 million?


that's different, because, shut up. and reasons.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

The Biden's never talk. Picture out golfing and flying on air force 2, on the way to Ukraine and China. But they never talked!

Simply a happy coincidence that VP Joe Biden was charged with Ukrainian interests under Obama, and his son Hunter Biden was placed on a corrupt Ukrainian energy company's board with a 50,000+ thousand dollar paycheck... in a role he knows nothing about.
and Joe Biden was caught bragging about a billion dollars in tax payer money that would not go thru unless the person looking into Barisma corruption was let go.

AND THE CORRUPT US MEDIA LIE ABOUT THE PROSECUTOR!

Nothing to see here. Vote Biden-Clinton!

AlbertAnonymous said...

Gavin Newsome is a power whore. He did nothing for SF (except ruin it) and now he’s destroying the economy of the entire state.

But don’t worry, “the government” will be here to help you. (Um, no thanks)

This “Marshall law” lockdown/curfew statewide is absurd and arbitrary, and illegal. Public health threat, sure. But we’ve had those before. Never shut down EVERYTHING. And what’s an “essential service”? Pretty arbitrary line if you ask me. He shut down church services (since when does the Church accept government edicts without question?) Now we’re all reliant on Big Brother. So we should be happy when they start doling out our “allowance”. Telling us which days we may go shopping, at which stores.

Newsome wants government run healthcare, but this is what you get. Wake up people.
We didn’t want to vote for socialism, so they’re gonna shove it down out throats. Not me.

I was born free in this country. I will die free here.

I believe the liberal stats and scare tactics on Covid 19 as much as I believe them on Global warming, I mean climate change, I mean climate chaos. OMG OMG Greenland had TONS of ice melt last summer, the oceans are rising (2 mm we think, by modeling, with no numbers for how much new ice formed last winter, and how much the oceans sank). We’re all gonna die in 12, 11, 10 years.

This is going to be no worse than a bad flu season. All the hype and scare tactics and shitty policy decisions and shitty totalitarian health orders are insanity!!! They should all pay with their political careers.

But I suspect the ”state run” So called main stream news will tell us all how we would’ve died if it weren’t for Gavins policies. You can’t prove otherwise.

Trump is Hitler, but didn’t do enough for our health. Gavin is a great caring responsible leader but created a statewide internment camp for all the residents of California... except the homeless of course, they’re exempt from the Marshall law curfew.

Can’t make this shit up.

Michael K said...

Frankly I think too many. in the Republican Party have played into the support of Trump at the cost of public health and that self-interest, at the expense of the rest, is represented by Burr.

Of course you do and you have excellent reasons.

After all, Orange Man Bad !

Curious George said...

"roesch/voltaire said...
Richard Burr is the face of the Republican Party"

A name that elicits "Who?" from 95% of Americans is not the face of anything.

Mark said...

So the left are purveyors of fear and despair.

I prefer the voices of hope and optimism.

tim in vermont said...

Feinstein, a California Democrat, sold $500,001 to $1 million worth of stock in a company called Allogene Therapeutics on Jan. 31, less than a month before panic about the virus caused markets to plunge, Senate records show. Her husband sold $1,000,001 to $5 million worth of Allogene shares on Feb. 18, according to financial disclosures.


“All of Senator Feinstein’s assets are in a blind trust, as they have been since she came to the Senate,” Mentzer said in an email. “She has no involvement in any of her husband’s financial decisions.”

LOL! Neither did her Chinese spy driver who was not prosecuted after saying he never heard anything she said that was important.

She is going with the Hunter Biden defense.

Achilles said...

This isn't necessarily a split between Red and Blue America.

This is more about those who believe the media and those who do not.

Yes Red American has a greater tendency to disbelieve the media but this is playing out right here.

There are a lot of Republicans who are trusting the media right now.

This will not happen again.

tim in vermont said...

It’s funny how her “blind trust” sold the exact same kind of shares that her husband did.

MayBee said...

Maybe people should consider this when they keep making proposals for more urban density and public transportation.

Kevin said...

"Red and Blue America Aren’t Experiencing the Same Pandemic"

Those in Red America aren't rooting for millions to die so Trump won't be reelected.

Calypso Facto said...

Re Wisconsin: here's the statement from Wisconsin Dept. of Health Services concerning testing: "Wisconsin has now seen multiple confirmed cases of COVID-19. And with more testing facilities online, we can expect to see even more cases."

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

All of Senator Feinstein’s assets are in a blind trust"

What a pant load.

Actually - they are all saying "We didn't know!"

Screw em all. They should all resign.

Achilles said...

Aunty Trump said...
"That does not sound like an out of control epidemic. New York is another story, but most of the country is not seeing a rapid spread at all.”

Math is hard. If it doesn’t spread as fast because of the lockdowns, I am sure lots of people will say that they were not necessary. Not everybody understands the math of it, because it’s college level math we are talking about. Almost nobody takes it anymore as degree requirements have become so relaxed to avoid calculus even in some computer degrees.

The math is easy. Anyone can do powers and bases and factor out an N. This is pre-calc at most dealing with slopes at rates of growth.

That is not the part you are messing up.

You are not doing the critical thinking part.

You are also doing this repeating this "math is hard" statement over and over. It isn't hard. It just makes you feel smart.

The numbers just aren't there. This just isn't going to do the damage Swine Flu did.

Most of the damage being done is by people freaking out.

Mark said...

Use of public transit in Maryland is prohibited.

narciso said...

wouldn't there be more demand in pharmaceutical and medical supply companies, at this point?

Achilles said...

roesch/voltaire said...
I am sorry I should have pointed out that Kurt Loder made the tweet using the "scumbag" word and not me, but I wanted to show, along with Trucker Carlson, the outrage expressed over Burr and note the difference in time in terms of sales. Frankly I think too many. in the Republican Party have played into the support of Trump at the cost of public health and that self-interest, at the expense of the rest, is represented by Burr.

You are just a really stupid person.

Trump supporters do not like Burr. We don't like a lot of republicans because they are corrupt.

We are not credulous idiots that will vote for some corrupt piece of shit like Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton or Barrack Obama because they have a D after their name or Mitt Romney because he has an R after his name.

We are way past the party system.

bagoh20 said...

This thing is really becoming a New York problem with 1700 of the 2000 new cases today being just in that one state. The rest of us should be directing our medical resources there, but even there in the worst state for this they have only 38 deaths to date, and only 4 new ones.

mccullough said...

Moroni is from the Greek “moros.”

Foolish

Bruce Hayden said...

I mentioned this last night. Earlier in the evening, I was on the phone with my kid and their fiancé. They really liked the idea that our new house is right (about a mile away) by the Mayo Clinic in PHX, and didn’t want us doing our annual migration up to our house in NW MT, with the nearest hospital 20 miles away. I kept talking about social distancing. The difference in population densities between the two locations is roughly 2,000x. The difference with the worst cities (in terms of densities) in this country is almost 10,000x. It is really stark. We live in town, when in MT (in a small subdivision, with a density of roughly 1 per acre), and if that gets too dangerous, we move down to my partner’s ex’s ranch, where his house sits in the middle of almost a half section (320 acres, or 1/2 sq mile). But it won’t. Because with those low population densities, this SARS-2 coronavirus just wont get a foothold.

Kid and fiancé wouldn’t listen to me. They are in their late 20s and are still bulletproof. The density around where they live is probably 1-2Kx of the county we liven in, in MT. Fiancé is bull headed, and has BS and MS Bio degrees (entomology), but has gotten back into virology as a result of their job, testing water supplies. I can sway them a bit, with science, so expect a lengthy battle ahead, convincing them that we are safer than they are. We shall see.

Michael K said...

The numbers just aren't there. This just isn't going to do the damage Swine Flu did.

What's going to be interesting is if chloroquine turns out to be effective in flu for high risk people.

I don't know why it was never tried. There are areas with chloroquine resistant malaria but this will not be used as prophylaxis by large numbers.

ga6 said...

"It will take YEARS to undo the damage that these over the top lockdown mandates by mostly Democrat governors and mayors are enacting. Maybe they mean well."

They know exactly what they are doing and what will be the outcomes, more dependent people, more power to the new overlords...

Known Unknown said...

"In its daily update, the Wisconsin Department of Health Services reported 155 cases in 21 counties. That's 49 more cases than Wednesday afternoon's report.”"

This is all true, Inga. There will be an explosion of cases as testing expands. What is important to watch is the overall death rate to see how deadly the virus is. As of now, in the U.S. it is 1.36% -- down from 1.5% a couple days ago. It would seem that it would fall as more mild cases (currently at around 95% of total global cases) emerge due to testing. I think it's quite possible. I don't necessarily buy-into the 1m+ dead in the U.S. models because they do not account for adaptive behaviors already in practice.

Germany's death rate is only at 0.3% -- they are socially more distancing as a culture than Italy. The U.S. is in-between.

I can hope that the FDA expedites treatment options and we bring the virus under control more rapidly.

ga6 said...

"And with more testing facilities online, we can expect to see even more cases."

But wait, wait the Chicago Tribune site just put up an article stating that drive in testing is "a very uncomfortable test" "uncomfortable"!!!..beware snowflakes and college student/employees...

narciso said...

I take as a socratic exercise, it does illustrate the 'conventional wisdom' in certain circles,

Bruce Hayden said...

“This thing is really becoming a New York problem with 1700 of the 2000 new cases today being just in that one state. The rest of us should be directing our medical resources there, but even there in the worst state for this they have only 38 deaths to date, and only 4 new ones.”

Someone yesterday was requesting that everyone around the country send NYC all their unused ventilators and masks. Not going to happen. But apparently Trump is sending both of our hospital ships there. That’s not going to get him re-elected - NYC, and thus NY, still isn’t going to vote for him. I think that I might have sent one of them to VA instead, to try to flip that state. Not sure about the other one. Maybe San Diego? Or maybe Miami, to keep the FL vote secure. I expect that NYC is going to have other problems, with this pandemic coinciding with their new, mandatory, Catch-and-Release bail law, as well as some of the most draconian gun laws in the country. All that I can say to New Yorkers is that it sucks to be you right now, but someone has to do it.

Howard said...

This is an insignificant sideshow to keep people focused on bickering.

chuck said...

Anyone can do powers and bases and factor out an N.

There speaks a man who has never taught freshman algebra. I assure you, there are many students who have problems with fractions, let alone powers and factors.

tim in vermont said...

"If I didn't know better I'd swear Althouse is scanning for articles that confirm her biases.”

She has earned a voice on the national stage, even if it’s a kind of minor one, a minor national voice is not nothing, and she has a right to use that voice as she sees fit. Even if you disagree with her.

The math has not played itself out yet, but it also hasn’t veered from it’s apparently inexorable course. But because it hasn’t played out, it is easy to deny it.

1700 new cases today will be factored into the death count in two weeks. We were told that counts would go up fast as test kits went out, and also that test kits are going to hotspots first, so saying that it’s a New York problem is pretty short sighted.

walk don't run said...

This reminds me a bit of what happened to my father in the 2nd WW. In 1939 he was called up and sent on the British Expeditionary Force to France as part of a Scottish Regiment. He of course ended up in Dunkirk and got a shell in his back from the strafing by the Luftwaffe. He told me he was one of the last men to be evacuated from Dunkirk. I understand the doctors were making decisions as to who of the wounded should go and who should stay. I guess my dad's prognosis to survive and contribute to the war effort got him a place on a boat. And he certainly contributed!

He ended up in North Africa, the Far East and was shot a couple more times. He thankfully missed D-Day by 1 day because he had the flu! He later became a chronic alcoholic and now would be recognised as having PTSD. My mom often wondered if he would have been better off being left for the Germans at Dunkirk. He led a sad and wretched life living in a rooming house in Edinburgh. It's funny how life goes. A decision by a doctor in times of a shortage of resources can have huge implications on the persons life!!

Achilles said...

bagoh20 said...
This thing is really becoming a New York problem with 1700 of the 2000 new cases today being just in that one state. The rest of us should be directing our medical resources there, but even there in the worst state for this they have only 38 deaths to date, and only 4 new ones.

And the weather is not cooperating there.

It seems New York City has a lower smoking rate and Average age is in the middle of the pack.

Achilles said...

ga6 said...
"It will take YEARS to undo the damage that these over the top lockdown mandates by mostly Democrat governors and mayors are enacting. Maybe they mean well."

They know exactly what they are doing and what will be the outcomes, more dependent people, more power to the new overlords...


It really sucks that so many people just jumped in and fell for this and ignored such obvious context.

Ann I get. She is still a lefty and they just don't like thinking and they really like to scold people who don't follow the herd. She is part of that herd and it takes real effort to avoid peer pressure.

But this is still getting otherwise intelligent people you would think are part of the "right" herd. They still feel the need to scold those who disagree and attack dissent.

Ken B said...

Look back at Althouse’s Amazon closures post yesterday. Most of us reading her found a real Let Them Eat Cake attitude on display. Is it wrong for the Morlocks to think the Eloi look down on them? The Eloi have a vested interest in convincing the Morlocks it’s wrong. Does that make skeptical Morlocks crazy?

narciso said...

<a href="https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/20/insider-trading-scandal-is-just-latest-reason-burr-should-be-removed-as-intel-chair/'> real concerns </a)

Ken B said...

There is a good case for a lot of measures, such as closing down sports and events where people congregate, and closing schools. But a lockdown removes the ability to adapt and react. The fact is, we need people working. Social distancing is absolutely needed, but you cannot close California and expect to be able to run hospitals and grocery stores and so on.
Pennsylvania closed highway rest stops. What about the truckers? So that looks to be reversed. But that’s the lockdown approach.

narciso said...

the remedy is worse than the disease

tim in vermont said...

"Pennsylvania closed highway rest stops”

Jeezum crow. Why?

tcrosse said...

"Pennsylvania closed highway rest stops”

They opened half of them back up again.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Bruce, why do you refer to your child in the plural?

hombre said...

“The feeling increasingly is that experts and the media are all part of this elite class that is self-dealing and is looking down on less-educated and less-fortunate people, and [that] they can’t be trusted to tell the truth.”

A conclusion supported by evidence is not a “feeling.” And the “looking down” is not limited to “less-educated and less-fortunate people.” It includes all “others” who disagree. By now it is axiomatic that they can’t be trusted to tell the truth.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

"Pennsylvania closed highway rest stops”

Because people peeing and pooping on the side of the road is so much more sanitary and civilized?

GingerBeer said...

"It would take a heart of stone..." not to laugh after reading this. I've lost count of the number of times over the past couple of weeks that I've read of Ds openly rooting for Rs to contract this, or predict it would hit Red States and Trump voters the hardest. The reality-based party steps on a rake yet again.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Burr (a Deep State Republican) and any other pol who is suspected of insider trading, should be investigated and if they are guilty, they should be given the boot and prosecuted.

I know it's hard for Dem bootlickers to grasp, since they excuse any sort of crime or corruption by any piece of scum with a D after their name (Hillary, the Biden family's rottenness ) but some of us care for our country more than we care for a political party. We know the Deep State infects both major parties.

Nichevo said...

that could reinforce the sense among many Republican voters and office-holders



The sense...the feeling...notice that they never touch on whether those senses, those feelings, are valid or correct? Or are we just supposed to assume, if we are the goodpersons? To think as they think, or we are unutterably wicked, we are toads?

What if it's true?

Todd said...

GingerBeer said...

"It would take a heart of stone..." not to laugh after reading this. I've lost count of the number of times over the past couple of weeks that I've read of Ds openly rooting for Rs to contract this, or predict it would hit Red States and Trump voters the hardest. The community based reality party steps on a rake yet again.

3/20/20, 12:45 PM


There, fixed it for you.

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
n.n said...

Prudence and boldness is a conservative quality. That said, the diverse social contagions that JournoLists have spread for more than 12 trimesters may be worse than the disease.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Exiled...
But that's just it. D's don't care about D-corruption. They willfully ignore it, make excuses for it, and pretend it's not really a big deal or even a real thing. In fact, Biden's clear family money-grubbing is just a conspiracy - a figment of our VRWC imaginations.

Tim said...

mountain man and lane ranger said it best. nothing shut down and certainly not Obamas fault (nothing ever was, he read about it in the papers)

Iman said...

To Hell with the NYT, the Atlantic, the WaPo and many others. Their shilling for the ChiComs needs to be recognized and dealt with...

https://twitter.com/lyndseyfifield/status/1240771450270875650

Michael K said...

This is all true, Inga. There will be an explosion of cases as testing expands. What is important to watch is the overall death rate to see how deadly the virus is. As of now, in the U.S. it is 1.36% -- down from 1.5% a couple days ago. It would seem that it would fall as more mild cases (currently at around 95% of total global cases) emerge due to testing.

Exactly but watch the hysteria meter. This thing will end with a mortality rate for those under 50 and no pre-existing conditions at 0.1%.

What is more interesting is whether chloroquine will be able to cut the flu death rate in the future.

FullMoon said...

Other than one particular family, I have not seen stories of multiple in family deaths related to virus, or even illness. Guy with a wife and couple of kids dies, would expect entire family to be sick or dead, as well as anyone in contact with the family.. And, lack of particular info on underlying or previous conditions frequently mentioned. News seems to be, person died, had existing condition, The end.

Also, many people who have been ill recently are beginning to wonder if they had virus and survived. No way to tell unless there is an after-recovery test available.

And, regarding Italy, many stories of Chinese immigrants in Italy. How many of the dead were Chinese with connection to Wuhan? Cannot find statistics on that.

Sebastian said...

"This thing will end with a mortality rate for those under 50 and no pre-existing conditions at 0.1%."

In other words, for them, the flu, and no more.

Since the flu may actually turn out to harm young people more, and the Wuhan virus hurts sick seniors more, the proper measure is not "mortality rate," but QALYs lost. It's not clear yet that it will be higher for Wuhan.

John Ioannidis says, "reasonable estimates for the case fatality ratio in the general U.S. population vary from 0.05% to 1%." Even that doesn't properly account for QALYs, but it further questions the economic disaster triggered to save ailing seniors.

wholelottasplainin' said...

tcrosse said...
The Telegraph reveals that private jets are flooding into Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket as the wealthy flee the virus. BTW The Vineyard has a 14-bed hospital with no ICU.
************************

Why am I reminded this fable:

"The Appointment in Samarra"
(as retold by W. Somerset Maugham [1933])

The speaker is Death

There was a merchant in Baghdad who sent his servant to market to buy provisions and in a little while the servant came back, white and trembling, and said, "Master, just now when I was in the marketplace I was jostled by a woman in the crowd and when I turned I saw it was Death that jostled me. She looked at me and made a threatening gesture, now, lend me your horse, and I will ride away from this city and avoid my fate. I will go to Samarra and there Death will not find me."

The merchant lent him his horse, and the servant mounted it, and he dug his spurs in its flanks and as fast as the horse could gallop he went. Then the merchant went down to the marketplace and he saw me standing in the crowd and he came to me and said, "Why did you make a threatening gesture to my servant when you saw him this morning?" "That was not a threatening gesture", I said, "it was only a start of surprise. I was astonished to see him in Baghdad, for I had an appointment with him tonight in Samarra"

GingerBeer said...

Todd: Thanks, but I don't think you fixed anything at all. But the contrast between Ds and the "faith-based community" which they joyfully mock couldn't be starker. The fly-over states will likely emerge relatively unscathed. These people are patient, prepared, positive, co-operative, and very focused on their community's well being. They don't need a 5, or a pandemic, to nudge them. And despite their human flaws, they humanely don't permit people to live and crap on the streets. The reality-based party has pushed increased urban populations, mass transit, banning plastic bags and single-use plastic of any kind, and permits the use of public streets as toilets. How's that working out?

GingerBeer said...

Sorry,"...they don't need a 5k..."

Achilles said...

Sebastian said...

Since the flu may actually turn out to harm young people more, and the Wuhan virus hurts sick seniors more, the proper measure is not "mortality rate," but QALYs lost. It's not clear yet that it will be higher for Wuhan.

COVID-19 isn't going to kill 500,000 old people much less 500,000 mixed age people.

It is not even going to be in the same ballpark as flu by any measure except one. COVID-19 is going to cause far more economic damage than the flu.

Bilwick said...

Gee, I wonder what the Democratic response would be. . . Can I go out on a limb here and hazard a wild guess? Is it by any chance, more statism and less liberty? Am I in the ballpark here? And if I'm correct, how would that be different from their usual approach to problems?

Bilwick said...

"It is not even going to be in the same ballpark as flu by any measure except one. COVID-19 is going to cause far more economic damage than the flu."

While the statist Hive cries crocodile tears.

Todd said...

GingerBeer said...

Todd: Thanks, but I don't think you fixed anything at all.


My meaning was that the "reality based-community" as the Ds/liberals like to bill themselves as, are often ANYTHING but. They just believe in different "gods" than the rubes and hicks. Their faith is often stronger. They believe in the power of big government, of credentialed experts, of the power of a "certificate" over experience, in man-made global warming, that a child in the womb is not a child, and all sorts of other things that DON'T reflect reality. But they are the party of science.

narciso said...

That was ron susskinds invention like the cbs reporters kung flu utterance.

GingerBeer said...

Todd: We stand in agreement.Regards.

KellyM said...

@Aunty Trump: the film "Big Trouble" is absolutely hilarious. Excellent cast, too. I won't ruin it for those who haven't seen it.

BTW: have you spent time in Vermont? I haven't heard "Jeezum Crow" outside the state limits...

Ken B said...

Michael K
How hopeful are you about chloroquine?

I'm Full of Soup said...

If I was Emperor For Life [which is my career goal btw], I'd quickly assemble 100,000 test kits and give 5,000 each to the 20 biggest metro areas so they could give the test to 5,000 randomly selected individuals. The test results would enable us to figure out if these shutdowns are enough or too much etc.

If you like this idea, consider voting for me for Emperor for Life!

Inkling said...

Quote from the linked article: "If the virus never becomes pervasive beyond big cities, that could reinforce the sense among many Republican voters and office-holders that the threat has been overstated..."

Given the stupidity of that remark, I won't bother to follow the link. In an era when travel was far less extensive that ours the Great Epidemic of 1918 (aka the Spanish flu) reached remote Alaskan quite quickly. Geography will be even less effective today.

And yes, a remark like that does suggest that most Republicans live like hill billies in isolated mountain valleys and marry their cousins. Yet another illustration of just how out-of-touch these people are.

FullMoon said...

Quote from the linked article: "If the virus never becomes pervasive beyond big cities, that could reinforce the sense among many Republican voters and office-holders that the threat has been overstated..."

More sensible
"If the virus never becomes pervasive beyond big cities, that could reinforce the sense among many ....that the threat has been overstated..."

DavidUW said...

New York just massively increased tests

Result. 7100 cases
deaths: 35
Maths are hard but that looks like 0.5% mortality
It will drop by another 50% next week to 0.25%

It’ll probably drop again but are we really going to destroy the world economy over a middling to bad flu season?

At my age I have a 0.28% chance of natural death in the next year. I’ll take a doubling of that risk to avoid a 100% chance of impoverishment.

n.n said...

To Hell with the NYT, the Atlantic, the WaPo and many others. Their shilling for the ChiComs needs to be recognized and dealt with.

They had more than 12 trimesters to make their case. Now, a little social distancing would be prudent to mitigate progress of their social contagion.

Nichevo said...


roesch/voltaire said...
Richard Burr is the face of the Republican Party and one reason why there is a disconnect with the Trump base.




You are as predictable as atomic decay.

Remember you floated over some bio stock you bought that was going up, and I mocked you, saying Look at r/v drinking the blood of children for profit, and you said you were doing well by doing good?

Remember how I told you that's exactly what you would say about your political friends, and what I said would be your line against your political foes?

To paraphrase Ian Fleming in Casino Royale, Fate rebukes you with terrifying swiftness. Or, rather, provides you with the opportunity to rebuke yourself.


You're so low you could put on a high silk hat and walk under a snake's belly.

tim in vermont said...

"BTW: have you spent time in Vermont? I haven't heard "Jeezum Crow" outside the state limits...”

Busted.

chuck said...

@DavidUW

Note that the tests are current, deaths lag by about 3 weeks. I'll leave the computation as an exercise for the reader.

wbfjrr2 said...

Full of Soup, you have my vote because that’s exactly what should be done, fiddle with the numbers, but that’s what’s been missing in all the hysteria. Knowing what the case rate is.

David UW is on the case too. Case rate is soaring, especially in NY, as more testing happens.

As predicted, the wreck the economy to save lives crowd interprets this exactly backward. More panic, more states shut down.

Aunty Trump, that’s the flaw in your math is hard argument. Case rate fatality rates are dropping as verified case incidents become more accurate.

In my neighborhood, the Venn diagram of “Warmers vs Wuhan Panickers” is almost exactly congruent.

I live in a relatively affluent area, much older demographics than the average area. Most of my acquaintances have had no material impact on their lives, they are not working and could care less how many lives are ruined by shutting down the economy. They are afraid and don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves. They also hoard tp. Not kidding about that.

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mandrewa said...

I kind of like this video, see Coronavirus versus every 2000s epidemic (March 19 update) Fatality Comparison.

Although it has flaws:

(a) the obligatory dig at Trump, for instance, which tells you that the people doing it are assholes;

(b) the mysterious absence of deaths from the yearly flu epidemics;

(c) the start dates for some of these epidemics is surely wrong. For instance for Covid-19 (or the Wuhan Coronavirus) they have it starting on Jan. 1, 2020;

and (d) I think the meaningfulness of some of this is seriously compromised by poor or inaccurate data from certain parts of the world.

I think the accuracy of all of this could be improved by redoing the same thing except throwing out data from all of the countries that we know are unreliable about reporting these things (and in particular I mean China).

But still this is very good at is giving people a way to visually grasp the very rapid expansion of the Wuhan Coronavirus compared to most previous epidemics.

They also make a very interesting prediction.

The authors claim that if current trends continue the confirmed death toll from this epidemic should exceed that from the Swine Flu Epidemic four days after March 19th, or on March 23, 2020.

That's a very testable prediction, since it's dramatic and we will be able to see if it's true two days from now.

Note we are not talking about actual death tolls but rather the numbers that governments around the world report, which is what is being plotted for each of these epidemics.

So we are going to be able to test that prediction very quickly.

By my standard, this prediction will be successful if the death toll as of March 23rd is even half what they estimate.

But if it's nothing like that, then probably there is something a bit more complicated going on.

gadfly said...

If the virus never becomes pervasive beyond big cities, that could reinforce the sense among many Republican voters and office-holders that the threat has been overstated...

Perhaps Althouse needs a "dysfunctional assumptions" tag.

Nichevo said...

FTR I think Stephen King has used "jeezum crow."