"Nor do the car companies need the president’s permission to move forward. Neither GM or Ford is building ventilators at present, while Tesla CEO Elon Musk tweeted Friday that his company was 'working on ventilators' but he didn’t specify how long it might take.... 'When you are repurposing a factory, it really depends on how similar the new product is to the existing products in your product line,' said Kaitlin Wowak, a professor at the University of Notre Dame who focuses on industrial supply chains. 'It’s going to be a substantial pivot to start producing an entirely different item.'"
AP fact-checks Trump's optimism. I'm saying "optimism." The AP word is "hype": "AP FACT CHECK: Trump hype on auto industry and ventilators."
I get Trump's optimistic style, but it's not going to work on everyone. It may help keep the economy alive during its suspended animation, but it may make a lot of people very cynical. Who can trust what we are hearing? Maybe only people who already want to believe. But don't almost all of us — Trump haters or not — want to believe we will win, we'll conquer the virus, and the economy will spring back to life, as vibrant as ever?
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212 comments:
1 – 200 of 212 Newer› Newest»Maybe only people who already want to believe. But don't almost all of us — Trump haters or not — want to believe we will win, we'll conquer the virus, and the economy will spring back to life, as vibrant as ever?
Yes.
the ap wants to demoralize, that's their job, when democrats are in power, they are stenographers.
But don't almost all of us — Trump haters or not — want to believe we will win, we'll conquer the virus, and the economy will spring back to life, as vibrant as ever?
And then you get all huffy when I call you naive and gullible. Francisco is wrong, and so are you.
"...Kaitlin Wowak, a professor at the University of Notre Dame who focuses on industrial supply chains..."
Perhaps she is right.
But I no longer put much stock in professors talking about what the private sector can and cannot do.
Unfortunately, professors that the media push forward over the past years have shown that the proverbial grain of salt is an equivalence unfair to salt.
I am Laslo.
How long can it be before these people start to be physically attacked?
Here's the quote:
TRUMP: “Ford, General Motors and Tesla are being given the go ahead to make ventilators and other metal products, FAST! @fema Go for it auto execs, lets see how good you are?” — tweet Sunday.
AP falsely asserted:
President Donald Trump is falsely asserting how quickly automakers including GM, Ford and Tesla can manufacture ventilators
Enemies of the people
“But don't almost all of us — Trump haters or not — want to believe we will win, we'll conquer the virus, and the economy will spring back to life, as vibrant as ever?”
Indeed.
“the ap wants to demoralize, that's their job, when democrats are in power...”
However positivity isn’t always met with positivity. We’ve seen this even here in the comments sections and not by Democrats.
Big Mike,
Are you saying that America won't bounce back from this pandemic?
Similar to the not-yet-approved treatment kerfuffle. On that issue, I thought Fauci did a good job of not being lured into the Trump-bashing on FTN yesterday:
""There's an issue here of where we're coming from. The president has heard, as we all have heard, are what I call 'anecdotal reports' that certain drugs work. So, what he was trying to do, and express, was the hope that it might work, let's try and push their usage," Fauci explained. "I, on the other hand, am not disagreeing with the fact that, anecdotally, they might work. But my view is to prove, definitively, from a scientific standpoint, that they do work. So I was taking a purely medical, scientific standpoint. And the president was trying to bring hope to the people."
According to Fauci, the media is continually trying to find contrasts between what the NIAID director and the president have said about the Wuhan coronavirus.
"I think there's this issue of trying to separate the two of us," he said. "There isn't fundamentally a difference there. He's coming from a hope standpoint. I'm coming from it from a scientific standpoint.""
Maybe only people who already want to believe. But don't almost all of us — Trump haters or not — want to believe we will win, we'll conquer the virus, and the economy will spring back to life, as vibrant as ever?
—————-
Yes we do but some of us have a different time. I and most others here want it to be ASAP. Others after it’s too late for Trump to win re-election. Additionally the pigeons of cost cutting, outsourcing, and just in time inventory management are coming home to roost.
And why I am I reminded of this exchange:
General "Buck" Turgidson:
Mr. President, we are rapidly approaching a moment of truth both for ourselves as human beings and for the life of our nation. Now, truth is not always a pleasant thing. But it is necessary now to make a choice, to choose between two admittedly regrettable, but nevertheless *distinguishable*, postwar environments: one where you got twenty million people killed, and the other where you got a hundred and fifty million people killed.
President Merkin Muffley:
You're talking about mass murder, General, not war!
General "Buck" Turgidson:
Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks.
How dumb do they think people are? Do they really think that most people don't get that switching from making cars to making medical equipment is an easy peasy task?
But don't almost all of us — Trump haters or not — want to believe we will win, we'll conquer the virus, and the economy will spring back to life, as vibrant as ever?"
Bill Mayer? And is he really the only one? There are millions who wanted this. They may be changing their mind, but they were asking for this, or something like it, and they weren't all keeping that desire to themselves.
I read the article. They are literally fact-checking claims Trump didn't make. Statements like, "In fact, GM manufacturing engineers were at Ventec late last week working on this, well before Trump’s tweet." Sound as if they are re-buffing Trump.
But Trump said he had calls with those companies where the companies themselves were telling Trump of the initiatives they are taking.
And I love the leading quote by a professor who is neither involved in the Administration NOR involved with the automakers but makes a bland statement about general re-tooling in a factory - nevermind they are helping with procurement, logistics, or could be using 3D printers or any other of a variety of potential ways the automakers could help.
Here's a video showing how to easily reconfigure a ventilator for 2 or 4 patients in an emergency situation. Don't know if this is realistic, but I'm optimistic there are some simple fixes like this to help out.
However positivity isn’t always met with positivity. We’ve seen this even here in the comments sections and not by Democrats.
Inga, I've noted and appreciated the lightening of your tone.
Inga: "However positivity isn’t always met with positivity. We’ve seen this even here in the comments sections and not by Democrats."
Nonsense.
Every time you positively latched onto another moronic hoax conspiracy theory I positively told you it was clearly a lie.
This is a libertarian community. Probably most here accept the view that one of the principal values of a market economy is its ability to see through bullshit.
So "optimism" is not going to prevent a economic meltdown unless people are willing to take real economic risks based upon it.
So we need an actual basis for optimism, which is a way of getting Americans back to work with acceptable health consequences.
Here is one: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/opinion/coronavirus-depression.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
Althouse and commentators, what do you make of it. Is this something that would work and can it be accomplished without strong top down federal action? And if that's required, what are people's thoughts on how best to mobilize our politicians, including our President, to make it happen in a way that we can all believe in?
Per Scott Adams
Trump went to the church of Norman Vincent Peale, the author of "The Power of Positive Thinking". This is Trump. He always believes something can be done. It has served him well. He's not going to change and the economy needs as much positive encouragement as possible. Economics is mostly mental. Trump is trying to pump up the economy long enough to get a handle on the Wuhan Virus. Anyone trying to depress the economy is EVIL.
As much as I disliked Obama, and thought his policies counterproductive, I still wanted us to succeed in pulling out of the recession. I couldn't possibly hate anyone enough to want the country to go into recession to get rid of them. I'd sooner shoot such a bastard myself.
“There are millions who wanted this. They may be changing their mind, but they were asking for this, or something like it, and they weren't all keeping that desire to themselves.”
Huh? Are you saying millions of people wanted a pandemic? What I’ve heard these last few years has been a desire for civil war... from certain Trumpists here.
"But don't almost all of us — Trump haters or not — want to believe we will win, we'll conquer the virus, and the economy will spring back to life, as vibrant as ever?"
Want to believe? Or believe?
Guess what, we will beat this. But the economy will not spring back.
Laslo: "Perhaps she is right.
But I no longer put much stock in professors talking about what the private sector can and cannot do."
Perfectly put.
I've seen manufacturing line workers do things more creative than teams of university students.
Just tell them the result you require and then let them loose.....
Yesterday I read that 3M had already made 500k respirators and was shopping them to New York.
Is that something different?
Do they really think that most people don't get that switching from making cars to making medical equipment is an easy peasy task?
Should be isn't
Sorry.
No one knows, AP acts as if they know. That is what is so offensive here. We have so many people who knows nothing claiming they know all.
For even more egregious examples look at Hoyt and Martin over at instapundit.
“Every time you positively latched onto another moronic hoax conspiracy theory I positively told you it was clearly a lie.”
Haha and I, you.
Shipping not shopping!
Inga: "Haha and I, you."
That has actually never occurred.
wild chicken said...
Yesterday I read that 3M had already made 500k respirators
Respirators are masks, cost about a buck apiece.
Ventilators are sophisticated, powerful air pumps, cost about $25-50k. One Italian company charges $11K for a PLASTIC REPLACEMENT AIR VALVE for one of their units (somebody 3D printed a replacement b and was promptly sued).
"“Think a thousand times before making a decision, but after making a decision never turn back even if you get a thousand difficulties!!” ~ Adolph Hitler
That's positive, isn't it?
Every time you positively latched onto another moronic hoax conspiracy theory I positively told you it was clearly a lie.
I appreciate your sense of humor and irony, Inga.
My production of face masks has been going well. I just donated my first 100 masks to a local nursing home. They can be laundered in bleachy detergent in boiling hot water and while they aren’t ideal, they are better than a bandana. Working on my second set of 100.
It would be nice if car companies would put back ventilator windows. It was the only source of cooling breeze without turning the car into a resonant wind cavity with the main windows.
Every manufacturer knows how to deal with variable demand, add parallel stations on the line, do subassembly in the warehouse, add a line in the same industrial park, nothing new here.
Add ventilator treatment beds in strip malls, let plastic surgeons and gynecologists run them.
Seems there is a lack of interest in real solutions, makes me thing it is not a real problem for those in the know. OH NO a hermitic! Burn him!
Trump: We'll get through this.
AP: FACT CHECK!!!!!
I’ve unfriended a dozen or more Democratic friends on FB for crowing ecstatically over the damage this pandemic will inflict on President Trump.
Their malice and savagery were really beyond belief and beyond my ability to tolerate.
"Huh? Are you saying millions of people wanted a pandemic?"
I'll be friendly and assume you are only pretending to be dense. They wanted a catastrophe to hurt Trump. Most said a recession, and some wanted foreign policy failure.
What do you think they would have said to having a flu like epidemic no worse than usual, but have it all blamed on Trump, and cost him the election?
I guess you'd call him a covidiot
Working on my second set of 100.
Thanks Inga.
Sold out. They have one for around six thousand, also sold out. Is this the real deal, or not adequate.
Also, I imagine other existing products could be modified to work. Ventilator seems to basically be an air pump with adjustments and alarms.
Ventilator 8330.00
Shouting Thomas: "Their malice and savagery were really beyond belief and beyond my ability to tolerate."
We've been off Facebook for over 3 years ever since Hodgkinson shot up the republicans on the baseball field and those "friends" we thought we had were celebrating and excusing it. A few even went so far as to say it could be considered self-defense since republicans were trying to kill people by getting rid of obamacare (little did they know Paul Ryan was on their side).
Why, there were even commenters here at Althouse, not on the republican side, who literally refused to specifically condemn the shooting of republicans.
Inga,
The media and the Democratic leadership would clearly rather spend time and effort inaccurately blaming Trump than concentrate on making progress against the virus.
Inga may not be actively crowing over a pandemic, but she did glory in proclaiming that the president was a Russian agent.
Hard to tell which is worse. Her performance there was just as detestable and horrifying.
They are attacking optimism. Seriously. Conveniently answering the question, "Am I the asshole?" in the affirmative. Not helping.
“They wanted a catastrophe to hurt Trump. Most said a recession, and some wanted foreign policy failure.”
Baloney and that’s me being friendly. There are people on both sides who would drag along innocent people to attain their political wet dreams, but they are a fringe of nutters.
I remember when Obama's naive optimism in the face of reality was a good thing.
meanwhile they were focusing on obesity and gun control did we mishear Michael moore and bill maher
You’re one of the nutters, Inga.
One of the worst.
You also insisted on lying that Prez Trump praised Nazis.
You have zero shame and, worse, zero awareness that your behavior is consistently shameful.
Really, how do you show your face here after what you’ve done?
BTW, anyone catch Senility Joe attempting to deliver a short speech from the comfort of his own home?
He actually mistook MA Gov Charlie Baker for "Charley Parker" and he forgot what century this is!
Apparently his teleprompter went out and he was a deer in the headlights.
Someone really ought to tell Not-A-Real-Doctor Jill Biden that what she is allowing to happen to her "Weekend at Bernie's" husband is not appropriate.
Inga: "There are people on both sides who would drag along innocent people to attain their political wet dreams, but they are a fringe of nutters."
Your "nutters" ARE the heart of your party.
Which is why they support infanticide and the selling off of baby parts for fun and profit and why Nancy is trying to shove abortion funding into the Relief bill.
"Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks."
That's the estimate that I have been talking about — the number of Americans who will die if we didn't do any sort of lockdown: 11 million.
Months away from being able to do it? I doubt that - weeks, probably.
“Inga,
The media and the Democratic leadership would clearly rather spend time and effort inaccurately blaming Trump than concentrate on making progress against the virus.”
I don’t agree. I’m not going to opine on Trump while this pandemic is going on, but not all criticism is based on some plot to get Trump. I better get back to my sewing, I’m wasting time here.
no that's from Strangelove, which was a satire on the theories of herman kahn, a strategist at the rand corporation, now the soviets probably had their counterparts, as their military strategy began with tactical nuclear strikes at front line positions,
Althouse: "That's the estimate that I have been talking about — the number of Americans who will die if we didn't do any sort of lockdown: 11 million."
Well, "any sort of lockdown" is an awfully vague term and is quite useless as a term for debate.
"any sort of lockdown" includes a 72 hour long weekend curfew after which everyone is free to wander about. It also includes a draconian 6-month complete shutdown which moves the nation into near depression like conditions and takes years from which to recover.
Or where you thinking of something in between?
Inga: "I’m not going to opine on Trump while this pandemic is going on......"
LOLOLOLOLOL
The center of the epidemic is now metro NYC, 2 hours away from me.
However, Ulster County, where I live, is not seriously affected yet. Something like 30 reported cases.
Face to face or in church (which we did via streaming), nobody wants to talk politics.
I’ve noticed, however, that no matter your political bias, whatever events occur only confirm that bias.
Inga - it's so obvious you're not being honest, why do you even pretend? Just look at the bullshit that is going on with Democratic senate and house members with the financial assistance bills, as the most recent examples. Or the complaints about racism with the travel ban (which clearly saved A LOT of lives) and what we are supposed to call the virus.
Here are some of the items the dems are trying to shove into the relief bill:
Abortion funding
Tax credits for solar energy and wind energy
Forcing employers to give special, new treatment to big labor
Brand spanking new and tougher emissions standards for airlines!
McConnell is correct: the dems are literally, right in front of our faces, attempting to use the Relief bill to enact their Green New Deal!
The conversation leaves out the all important variable of timeframe. Retoolers won't have them ready tomorrow but that doesn't mean they cant do it in a timeframe measured in weeks when they might still be helpful to have...
Mass General was supposed to be working on the efficacy of blood re-oxygenation for covid patients as an alternative to ventilators. Something they already do well and would ease the necessity of ventilators now...
Automobile companies often make more than cars. GM, for example, also makes bat houses.
That's the estimate that I have been talking about — the number of Americans who will die if we didn't do any sort of lockdown: 11 million.
Just you? Where are you getting that?
"That's the estimate that I have been talking about — the number of Americans who will die if we didn't do any sort of lockdown: 11 million."
Where the Hell did you get that from? On the Diamond Princess, 20% got the illness and 1% who got it died. Scale that up to the US and you get 660,000. However, the people on the DP had a much higher average age than the US population.
How are these auto companies supposed to switch to making ventilators when the governors of their states close their factories?
BTW, Kyodo News is reporting that whistleblower doctors in China are blowing the whistle on the democrats beloved "Heroic" Chinese Communist government liars whom the whistleblowers claim have been lying about the total numbers and deaths and business activity in Wuhan for the entirety of this pandemic crisis.
I'm going to bet the Commie ChiCom's are going to "disappear" those doctors very soon and the lefties/LLR-lefties in the US will continue their non-stop praise and lauding of the ChiCom's every step of the way.
Trump was encouraging those companies to do what they can. The AP’s site was lousy and I’m not even sure I read their whole article, but they gave only one tweet of Trump’s. One that didn’t promise anything. I don’t understand the panic over ventilators. Shortages will occur where cases are concentrated like NYC and we will move them into place as needed. The Pentagon has many in storage and people are cutting red tape go get them out to civilians. But is the virus really overwhelming our capacity anywhere other than our ability to cease economic activity?
"But don't almost all of us — Trump haters or not — want to believe we will win"
"almost" is the tell. You know "some" of us don't want to believe that. "Some" of us want Trump and America to fail. "Some" wanted it before Wuhan, they want it now.
Jupiter: "How are these auto companies supposed to switch to making ventilators when the governors of their states close their factories?"
By switching to ventilators...PRESTO! Non-Essential Business becomes Essential Business immediately.
Factory re-opens.
"Automobile companies often make more than cars. GM, for example, also makes bat houses."
Might be time to stop supplying those bat houses to wet marketers in China. May be time for humans everywhere keep a strict social distance from wildlife of any kind.
The very article quoted by Althouse was false, in typical MSM fashion. "President Donald Trump is falsely asserting how quickly automakers including GM, Ford and Tesla can manufacture ventilators"
Yet Althouse asserts that "almost" all of us want us to win. How does the article convey that desire? How the MSM generally convey that desire? What are they actually doing to help us win--I mean us the American people, rather than just the usual Dems?
Meade: " May be time for humans everywhere keep a strict social distance from wildlife of any kind."
Newsweek Editors hardest hit......
Via Guy Benson:
Via senior GOP aide, Schumer/Pelosi now pushing these demands amid pandemic-fueled economic collapse:
1) Unprecedented collective bargaining powers for unions
2) Increased fuel emissions standards for airlines
3) Expansion of wind and solar tax credits
Everything else is now window dressing.
Trump and Cuomo are betting on on Chloroquine, Hydroxychloroquine, and Zithromax. They are the one's tasked with saving mass lives. Even Dr. Fauci isn't tasked with that responsibility. It's and executive decision, and worth the risk. If it isn't effective, we've lost nothing.
Oh... and it looks like Pelosi and her Democrats are introducing famine on top of the plague today...
The press is spending a ridiculous amount of time picking at things about Trump. Pick, pick, pick. The most nuanced thinkers ever in the history of the world, somehow take everything Trump says as a literal, it's gotta-be-happening-now-or-it's-not-true thing. No room for nuance when it comes to others, particularly Trump.
Any 10 year old can see his approach is to be optimistic. Even if his words and grunts are clumsy, his approach is that we will or we ARE finding a solution. He is a solution driven business person. Most of the press thinks its job is to tear down the nearest conservative, Republican, or in lieu of either of those, Trump. They are blind with this stuff.
I'm so over the coverage from our Junior Journalists. Obama said you could keep your healthcare. Multiple times. A pretty fucking huge lie. One of dozens. Some pretty huge. But all that was AOK. Trump says we'll be cranking up ventilators through GM? He's lying!! Journalism!
When this is over, there will be a change in life in America. That's for sure. One of those industries that needs to be shaken down to it's core is the news media.
"But don't almost all of us — Trump haters or not — want to believe we will win, we'll conquer the virus, and the economy will spring back to life, as vibrant as ever?"
No, Ann. Not all of us want to win. Some of us want to make political points out of this and the longer it goes and the more it hurts, the higher the points. Some of us want to take advantage of the crisis to advance our pet environmental projects. Some of us - who already have their mansions and millions - don't CARE if the economy tanks and we're all left in a new Great Depression. They want us in poverty and requiring of government handouts, because that's where opportunities for GRAFT come in.
So no, Ann. All the evidence I'm seeing is that not all of us want to win the war against this pandemic virus.
Some of us are evil.
"That's the estimate that I have been talking about — the number of Americans who will die if we didn't do any sort of lockdown: 11 million."
I would like to see some explanation of such a thing that takes into account the realistic scenario of how people would naturally react and modify their behavior without a lock down. Any responsible person should want that explanation too before the spread those numbers, unless their objective is to scare people into compliance.
That level of fatality never happens, and this is not anywhere near the most fatal or widespread infection we have experienced. If this was realistic, wouldn't the states without lock downs be looking a lot different by now. Here in Nevada we have been on lock down for almost a week, and our numbers are no better than similar states without a lock down. In fact it would be hard for us or them to have lower numbers. We are in low single digits of deaths and a few hundred cases out of thousands tested, and zero serious sicknesses.
If you pretend that whole the country is like New York, then it might get pretty bad, but the nation is not all like New York in either infection load or density, and to extrapolate in such a simplistic way to the entire population is not scientific or realistic. It's not helpful.
I seem to remember a famous Democratic president saying "All we have to fear is fear itself".
Maybe some folks should think on that.
"But don't almost all of us — Trump haters or not — want to believe we will win, we'll conquer the virus, and the economy will spring back to life, as vibrant as ever?"
Unfortunately, that's not true. There is evil out there and it exists in the Democrat Party. Think they cared about poor Ukranians while the laundered money through the country? Even their constituents don't care. Let a post abortion live baby / fetus die on a table? No Problem? It's a choice!!!
Think Dems and establishment Republicans cared about shipping jobs to China? Bombing brown people?
However countries, churches, and communities are made up of the body, not the leaders. So...there's hope...and there's Trump.
He is going to win this thing....
As a supervisor in a metal stamping plant that turns about 6 million pounds of steel a week into steel laminations for industrial electric motors, I can tell you that even simple product changes are challenging. Almost all manufacturing equipment is specially designed to do specific tasks. Every single component in a respirator is engineered and spec’d for a singular purpose. It’s fitting that a supply chain professional would recognize that.
And don’t even get me started on the inspection, testing and QC that must have to take place before even a simple medical device can be delivered for use, let alone a complicated device designed to be 100% reliable in the task of breathing for a human.
THis is simply an extension of the resistance/collusion/impeachment crap. All they care about is damaging Trump. Don't care about the validity of what they are doing, or the damage it is doing, or the lost opportunities due to wasted time and energy. Fuck the Democrats.
I imagine AP fact checking Churchill.
“Actually, the last time we fought on the beaches and in the hills, in 1066, we were conquered.”
When Trump says he inherited a broken system, including one without a stockpile of ventilators, he is not exaggerating. This, from the LA Times:
The national shortage of N95 respirator masks can be traced back to 2009 after the H1N1 swine flu pandemic, when the Obama administration was advised to replenish a national stockpile but did not, according to reports from Bloomberg News and the Los Angeles Times.
It's ironic that this negativity is coming from a bunch of people who worshiped a candidate whose slogan was "HOPE".
I've been in manufacturing for 40 years and I'm afraid the college professor is probably right. There is much involved to turn the manufacturing spigot on in a different location, let alone a different company. If it's their own new design then they will have to design it first, then prototype and test it and hope it works the first time. Prototype to production will take many weeks. Fastest approach will be to start making an existing design. That means an existing mfgr. will have to give them the design drawings and bill of materials (parts list) and assembly/test instructions. Then you have to source parts. Circuit boards, cables, tubing, custom plastic parts. Those items have to be set up at various suppliers. New tooling and fixtures will need to be made to make parts and assemble the final product. Chances are most of the existing inventory of the original mfgr. is stocked at low levels and mostly made in China (Supply Chain hell). My guess it will take a couple months before you see much supply increase.
"The national shortage of N95 respirator masks can be traced back to 2009 after the H1N1 swine flu pandemic, when the Obama administration was advised to replenish a national stockpile but did not, according to reports from Bloomberg News and the Los Angeles Times."
-- Wow. The fact it took a month to reveal this makes me wonder what else the news has missed.
This is a time when every person needs to use their own deductive reasoning skills, which are to longer taught in the current education system. Especially Universities. If you don't know the press is shit...you're an idiot.
1) We are not seeing out of control exponential growth. Coronavirus cases are spiking in the US because testing is spiking. Obviously population centers
2) Italy did it to themselves, and the US did not act like Italy.
3) The Chloroquine wildcard is out there. It's something to watch and root for. Both in terms of lives saved, and our economy.
4) Most Americans have cooperated with the "15 days to slow the virus" program, and it will have a huge effect.
5) And as a final blessing from God, Joe Biden is nowhere to be found.
...but the nation is not all like New York in either infection load or density, and to extrapolate in such a simplistic way to the entire population is not scientific or realistic. It's not helpful.
Repeat- It's not helpful...
I know the media lied about that one thing, but I turned the page and I believe what they said on page 2.
Sorry, but what FACT is being checked by AP? And ONE professor's opinion isn't worth shit. And why out of the hundreds - if not thousand - of experts in this area, was this person chosen?
Of course, GM and whoever can't produce masks OVERNIGHT. Where did Trump assert that? And they do need the Executives Branch permission to make masks - if they want to people to use them. Again, its just example 4,356 of the Press either lying about what Trump said, or deliberately misinterpreting it, so it can be called a "Lie" or be "fact checked".
When you have to "fact check" the fucking "Fact Checkers" then they aren't objective or even worth reading.
he popped up like a ground hog, and removed all doubt again,
@Francisco, oh, we’ll make it back, despite the best efforts of Nancy Pelosi and her Democrats. But I don’t believe that “almost all of us” are pulling for the US to recover. I’ll even put Inga in the “almost all of us,” but IMO at least three quarters of the Democrats in both houses of Congress would be pleased to see the US in a deep Depression if it meant Trump losing in November, and the rest do whatever Nancy Pelosi tells them to, no matter how much pain it causes their constituents. And Inga is about the only lefty troll commenting here I would include in the “almost all of us.”
It’s up to them to prove me wrong. But by their words and actions since November 9, 2016, and especially the Senate’s vote yesterday, the Democrats in Congress have forfeited any presumption of good intentions.
Look, the MSM or more accurately the DNC-media, is just doing what it always does - attack Trump and try to drive down his approval ratings. They're aren't going to stop giving Trump 92% negative coverage just because we have a health crisis.
11 million
“I would like to see some explanation of such a thing that takes into account the realistic scenario of how people would naturally react and modify their behavior without a lock down. Any responsible person should want that explanation too before the spread those numbers, unless their objective is to scare people into compliance.
That level of fatality never happens, and this is not anywhere near the most fatal or widespread infection we have experienced.“
Bagoh,
Here is a scenario. It is not a prediction. Assume that essentially no one is immune. If the disease spreads fast enough then it will affect millions before we can ramp up any effective treatment. Before we can produce the billions of tablets of chloroquine, assuming it works, and before we can build more ventilators. Then you can tens of millions getting sick at once. They cannot be treated properly. The disease under those circumstances will kill more than 1%. Say it kills 3.8% or so, comparable to what is has been in some places. Nearly everyone gets it, just under 4% die. Voila.
Over 3% is quite plausible if we get a tsunami of illness or protracted months wearing down the medical system.
You might not think that is plausible, but you have no knowledge of epidemiology. We have experts who do have such knowledge. They tell us such a scenario is possible. Not probable, not certain, but possible enough we need to take it seriously.
If we can buy 3 or 4 weeks, and use them well to ramp up our defenses, we can cut that scenario hugely.
>>"That's the estimate that I have been talking about — the number of Americans who will die if we didn't do any sort of lockdown: 11 million."
I hear the Department of Pulling Numbers Out of Your Butt may have new numbers next week.
Quit liberals/Democrats credit for being Patriotic. Of course they want the Economy to tank. Plenty of liberals have said so. And that includes Never Trumpers who've stated that an Economic Downturn would be a small price to pay for getting rid of the "Dangerous" Orange man.
We are not going to need all those respirators.
As far as the "Bailout Bill" the Democrats are blocking, let it die.
The Heritage Foundation suggested a two-pronged alternative: first, apply the same paid sick and family leave provisions granted to small business employees to workers at large businesses; and second, the government can "pre-purchase expected goods and services to supply businesses with liquidity."
Both of those can probably be done by EO.
let it die.
Looks like that's happening..
But don't almost all of us want to believe we will win, we'll conquer the virus, and the economy will spring back to life, as vibrant as ever?
I expect this will happen. I don't need belief and most of all I don't need hype. Just the facts, and where those are uncertain some acknowledgement of the level of uncertainty.
Stop demonizing, people.
No one actually wants lots of people to die and the economy to crash into a decade long depression. Democrats know that their constituencies will suffer the most damage in such a collapse. Nor do other nations wish that for us. If America tanks, we take most of the world with us.
The question is: "What makes things better?" And that means, how do we combine enforced social distancing now--to prevent the death rate from spiking--with measures that will permit lifting those measures ASAP, probably lots of testing and a more limited and targeted set of protective measures. Like this: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/opinion/coronavirus-depression.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
Stop making other people bad, which is a classic way of displacing difficult feelings, and figure out how you can take effective action to help, either through individual action like Inga's or through effective lobbying of your public officials. And this is not civility bullshit; its common sense.
Both of those can probably be done by EO.
One idea I heard, which I like if not love, is to let people crack their 401ks without penalty. Can that be done by EO, I wonder?
"The press is spending a ridiculous amount of time picking at things about Trump. Pick, pick, pick"
So does the spouse. Constantly. I need to stop sticking up for Trump..what's the point when someone wants to hate.
Would "Yes, dear" be too obvious?
But don't almost all of us — Trump haters or not — want to believe we will win, we'll conquer the virus, and the economy will spring back to life, as vibrant as ever?
Sadly, no.
No one actually wants lots of people to die and the economy to crash into a decade long depression.
Then why are Democrats blocking the bill?
Big Mike,
I see where you are coming from and I agree.
After the Russia Hoax, FISA scandal, Kavanaugh hoax, Charlottesville slander and Impeachment hoax, I would put nothing past the Left wing Democrats. Hopefully the more moderate ones will eventually figure it out, but the DNC media do have a hold on a lot of people.
It is amazing the Professors, who choose not to produce or practice what they teach, are called upon as experts.
It does take a long time to tool up, organize fabrication, assembly and testing of products. But a guy that doesn't actually manage supply chains, is and expert in supply chains?
If Universities are producers of a product (educated students who fill the pipeline for qualification in the workforce) they have clearly failed in their portion of the supply chain.
>>One idea I heard, which I like if not love, is to let people crack their 401ks without penalty.
Bad idea. Most 401Ks are not cash heavy. So you'd likely have to sell to get money out. Which locks in your losses, and that much selling activity would drive the market even lower.
Gahrie: "Then why are Democrats blocking the bill?"
Clyburn pulled a Kinsley "gaffe" and made it clear:
"This is a tremendous opportunity to restructure things to fit our vision,.."
--Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.)
What’s needed to opine is someone who understands the machinery used by the auto companies and what it would take to retool, if possible, those machines to manufacture ventilators.
The Notre Dame prof doesn’t know. So it’s a very genetic, useless opinion
Stephen: "The question is: "What makes things better?" And that means, how do we combine enforced social distancing now--to prevent the death rate from spiking--with measures that will permit lifting those measures ASAP, probably lots of testing and a more limited and targeted set of protective measures."
LOL
I'm afraid you are far too late to this.
Here's what the dems are looking for, specifically (as noted above):
- Abortion funding
- Tax credits for solar energy and wind energy
- Forcing employers to give special, new treatment to big labor
- Brand spanking new and tougher emissions standards for airlines!
Tell us how these will reduce the death rate. I'm particularly interested in your "death rate" reduction focus in terms of additional funding for Planned Parenthood.
maybe not
I don't know how fast they can churn out ventilators or ventilator parts. I also don't know how long we will need extra ventilators. If you made me guess, I would say it is unlikely that they can produce much of anything useful in a month, but perhaps they could churn out some specific parts that other manufacturers could use. However, if this pandemic goes on into the autumn, I definitely would want them starting now. I suspect there will be a market for them somewhere.
Also, do not be too cynical of what an assembly line with robotics can do.
Trump never said automakers need his permission to do anything. He said they were given the go ahead. I assume “they” are the production managers, and they were given the go ahead by the corporate managers, or something like that; I don’t presume to know the hierarchy and logistics of industrial manufacturing.
Ken B said...They tell us such a scenario is possible. Not probable, not certain, but possible enough we need to take it seriously.
There's a lot of things that are possible. I mean, I sort of live my life by the tenet that anything is possible at any time, it's just a question of probable it is to happen. For example it's possible that an extinction level meteor could hit the Earth tomorrow. But experts have worked out that the likelihood of such an event happening tomorrow is extremely, extremely low. But it’s not zero.
But with Covid-19, the problem here is that we don’t know what “possible enough” really is. Is it 50/50? Is it 1 in 100? Well, in order to divine that, we have to look at the data and assume that it’s at least somewhat reflective of reality. So what does the data say?
367,457: confirmed cases
16,097: deaths that have been attributed to Covid-19
100,879: recovered
Best guess current population of Earth in 2020: 7.7 billion.
Best guess SARS-COV-2 time spent circulating in the human population: around 6 months
Unknowns:
1). The true number of people that are currently are infected.
2). How many deaths there have been that haven't been reported as deaths due to Covid-19.
Regarding point 1, so far in the US we have conducted 246k tests. Of that we’ve found around 33k postives, which is around 13% of tests conducted. There's undoubtably a significant number of cases that have not yet been picked up (and some amount that will never be due to people have mild symptoms). The question is, how many do you believe there are? Is it 2 times the confirmed number? Is it 10 times? A hundred times?
When thinking about this I often go back to the Diamond Princes. 18% had gotten it. But does that for sure mean that 18% of this country will get it? After all, it was a confined, enclosed space being shared by 3700 people for an extended period of time. The country, however has vast rural areas with low population densities. Given that, it seems unlikely that we'd ever hit 18% (esp. after the lockdown). But if not 18%, then what? 10%? 1%?
Regarding point 2
A clue might be looking into the number of deaths due to pneumonia over the past couple months and exclude people under the age of 10 or so. If there was a significant uptick over last year, some of that could be attributed to Covid-19. I can't find good information on this yet.
According to the CDC, in 2017 in the United States there were 49,157 deaths due to Pneumonia which translates to 15.1 deaths per 100k people. (there were about 2.56 deaths million worldwide, about a third of those were children under the age of 5).
Ken, It's impossible, because of your first assumption: "Assume that essentially no one is immune."
That assumption is absolutely required for your scenario, and without it, it totally fails. Immunity is the essential feature to stopping contagions. It's already started. It is expanding as fast as the infection and many times the speed of sickness and death, it's one-directional (increasing), and fastest where the infections are most numerous. It cannot be ignored just to make an argument if you are being serious.
Here's what the dems are looking for, specifically (as noted above):
Media I'm watching today as well as GOP negotiators still reluctant to expose the Leftie Lard™ Democrats are demanding. It's disturbing but not surprising Drago is one of the best sources of this info...
"
Richard Yeselson
@yeselson
Replying to
@AJentleson
Dems have the leverage here if they hold their nerve. Market is going to decline 10-20% tomorrow, so Schumer and Pelosi have to be coldly implacable—no Mnuchin slush fund, Corp bailout along Warren’s lines, redirect/add money for workers."
Fuck the Democrats
I just donated my first 100 masks to a local nursing home.
Well done!
The Chloraquine Killed Virus is for now creating a special time warp until the results of the NY trials are announced in 2 weeks. Then we all wake up to a post arrests DC and a FED merged into an American Treasury. Andy Jackson would approve.
For my part I am impressed with Gov. Cuomo’s behavior during this crisis. He buried the hatchet with Trump and they are working together. That’s leadership, that’s common sense. I predict Cuomo will have some realistic expectations for a Presidential run after Trump wins this next election.
The Democrats in Congress are blocking the checks to the people. This tactic could prove fatal to their political careers but as always Trump hatred reigns supreme in that quarter. I don’t know the details but I confidently assume that the losers, nincompoops and idiots in the GOP have also had their part to play in this fiasco.
American industry is still capable of pretty fast movement when motivated.
Never let a crisis go to waste, we can blame republicans and Trump as usual.
Pelosi and Schumer Block $1.6 Trillion Emergency Economic Bill – DOW Futures Collapse…
Two Pinocchios, a Jester, and polar bear for AP reporting. Regulatory relief to get what we need, what we want, without labor arbitrage, and outsourcing for green perceptions.
No one actually wants lots of people to die and the economy to crash into a decade long depression."
And nobody said that, which means you are doing what you are criticizing. They don't want it to be any worse than it has to be to get rid of Trump, but they are willing to go pretty far and have said so. Was the sham impeachment good for the country? Did they care? Is nonstop criticizing and opposing everything the President does during a serious crisis like this good for the country? Of course not, and yet many, not all, but many are doing that, and will not stop doing it, and you know they would not be if it was Democrat in the White House. It's not helping, to say the least. Here's a question: If we knew about this virus crisis during the impeachment, how many would still want to play that stupid game of distracting the President and the government?
That's the point we are making, not the one you say we are.
rehajm: "Media I'm watching today as well as GOP negotiators still reluctant to expose the Leftie Lard™ Democrats are demanding."
To his credit, Mitch McConnell specifically mentioned several of these dem demands and called them out on it from the Senate floor while also terming the dems actions wanting to relaunch the "green new deal".
And now, given the votes that were taken just within the last hour or so, the dems in the Senate have created the conditions where, over the next several votes on motions in the Senate coming this afternoon, ANY ONE Senator can object and shove the entire process to the end of the week...at the earliest.
It's now very clear and undeniable that the dems, who keep adding one irrelevant and non germane demand after another, want this bill to fail, for further destruction to occur in the economy, and then to leverage that as a campaign tool to unseat Trump.
If you want to know why, pull up Biden's unbelievably pathetic and meandering and mistake-filled 6 minute "address" from his home where he came off as the senile idiot that he is. Clyburn and other dems are already calling for a complete cancellation of all other dem primary campaign activities in order to keep Senile Joe out of the public eye until the dems can crawl into their convention,
Desperation is the order of the day for the dems. In fact, there is already big time trial-ballooning of last minute pre-convention candidate-switcheroo ideas including inserting Cuomo into the mix!!
Oh yeah, the guy who attacked gun owners and said conservatives were not welcome in his state is really going to pull back those midwest voters.
But if you are a dem strategist working for the leaders of either of the dem establishment "camps" (Hillary Camp vs Obama camp), what do you have to lose at this point?
DanTheMan said...
>>One idea I heard, which I like if not love, is to let people crack their 401ks without penalty.
Bad idea. Most 401Ks are not cash heavy. So you'd likely have to sell to get money out. Which locks in your losses, and that much selling activity would drive the market even lower.
True, true. But, if you need it now, if you need say ten Grand instead of one Grand, or if you hate handouts, it's not nothing.
The market downing point is good but...People are going to run out of rent and mortgage, food, power. Is, Lord love him, Big Daddy Trump going to keep us all in our houses?
And Pelosi wants mufflers on 737s? KILL!
I've also been in manufacturing for most of my life, and I think the ventilators can be quickly put into production if key people can let go of their normal control functions. This is a special situation, so you don't get picky about testing, stringent QC, etc. I'm sure there are proven designs already available, and production equipment that can be quickly modified from making product very similar in many markets. This is a perfect example of when we must not let best get in the way of better. Patent holders might need some legal protection if they let others make their designs, but that can be a simple agreement between the parties involved without even passing a law.
bagoh20-- Not to gainsay your point but you also have to have the right skills on staff, catch up with the current state of the art in the product area, know which vendors to call, what kinds of material to use, get tooling made (a pretty long pole right there), learn how to manufacture aseptically, etc. I think there is some truth in what Kaitlin Womack says. Cars != medical equipment.
Not to mention what corporate counsel will have to say about the product liability exposure...
As manufacturing industry veteran I recall the wisdom of the saying "Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do the work".
Althouse,
11 million is more than 2 orders of magnitude greater than the worst winter flu of the last decade... for which we did absolutely nothing en masse, they'll presumably those who were most susceptible isolated themselves.
Do we really have any evidence that this thing is 100 times more dangerous than the worst recent Influenza A?
Regarding the automakers and ventilators, perhaps it's not just a matter of actually manufacturing them that automakers could help with... perhaps automakers could help with general component supplies? Obviously I don't know. I'm not familiar with what goes into the manufacturing ventilators and cars to understand if there's any kind of component overlap.
But I no longer put much stock in professors talking about what the private sector can and cannot do.
Bingo! Give this player a brand new toaster …
In the meantime some Florida spring breakers are being hospitalized for complications from … wait for it … the Wuhan virus. I wish the youngsters all the best in their recovery.
… not all criticism is based on some plot to get Trump. I better get back to my sewing, I’m wasting time here.
Virtue signaling – ain’t it wunnerful?
They're aren't going to stop giving Trump 92% negative coverage just because we have a health crisis.
Another winner, folks! We have a new Sunbeam electric mixer for this player.
If we can buy 3 or 4 weeks, and use them well to ramp up our defenses, we can cut that scenario hugely.
Commonsense. It is such a rarity these days.
As far as the "Bailout Bill" the Democrats are blocking, let it die.
The Heritage Foundation suggested a two-pronged alternative: first, apply the same paid sick and family leave provisions granted to small business employees to workers at large businesses; and second, the government can "pre-purchase expected goods and services to supply businesses with liquidity."
Both of those can probably be done by EO.
Love this comment. Why? Because I feel slightly better than before I read it. Somewhere, somehow in all this mess folks are thinking positively and creatively.
"If there was a significant uptick over last year, some of that could be attributed to Covid-19. I can't find good information on this yet"
Neither can I. Is there any evidence that we are dealing with any excess deaths due Wuhan?
Not saying there aren't: but what do we know?
What does social distancing by itself do to limit flu and normal respiratory trouble, thereby further limiting the net impact of the virus?
Do we really have any evidence that this thing is 100 times more dangerous than the worst recent Influenza A?
The only thing that is worse is the hysteria. The mortality rate falls as more testing is done on those without or with minor symptoms.
I expect that the final CFR will be about the level of the bad flu a couple of years ago. The cruise ship example is a good test.
Whatever number of ventilators the officials think they need, they can subtract 1. I have directed in advance: If I come down with symptoms of COVID-19, I will self-quarantine in my isolated bedroom/bathroom. I'll fight it like hell, I promise, but if I end up losing, it will be on my terms: no hospital bed, no medical assistance, no artificial ventilation. Just me, my thermometer, Tylenol, water supply, electrolytes, bible, and photographs of my lovely wife, darling daughter and my dear neighbors' handsome black Lab, Zeus.
My 66 years have been glorious and sufficient. Every additional day is a gift. And I'll be damned if I'm going to allow myself to die, by COVID-19, on a stinking ventilator. Give it to someone who wants it. Thank you.
America will weather this storm like we've weathered everything else thrown at us, from the Spanish Flu to 9/11. The problem for Trump is, if he's right and we keep deaths down to a relative handful of sick elderly people with pre-existing conditions, the OrangeManBad crowd will say he overreacted. If he's wrong and millions die then he reacted too late. He can't win. The only hope is to keep the sick and old home and send everyone else back to work ASAP.
However, If anyone can procure it for me, I will be eternally grateful: LSD, 100 µg, intramuscular.
Thanks, in advance, again.
I don't know about the rest of you but I quite like the business man as problem solver approach Trump is taking during this crisis. Lets hope and pray Trump has a better go of it than historys other whiz kid Herbert Hoover who was a wizard fighting world hunger after W.W 1 but then the proverbial GOAT during the depression.
MSNBC just now:
The economy tanking has made the pollution/ glowball warmening problem better.
And Althouse doesn't believe people are hoping for economic collapse to achieve political power?
bagoh20 said...
I've also been in manufacturing for most of my life, and I think the ventilators can be quickly put into production if key people can let go of their normal control functions.
Making sure that no one above the level of shift manager has any involvement in the process would be your best bet. That's based on 22 at a manufacturing company doing IT support for manufacturing/warehousing.
and my dear neighbors' handsome black Lab, Zeus.
You bastard! Haven't you heard that dogs can get this?!
Meade, Meade, Meade. A "stinking ventilator" breaths for you while your immune system and your doctors fight whatever is causing your breathing problems. It keeps you alive while you heal. And people do heal, a vent is not a death sentence.
A quick search shows that ICU patients placed on mechanical ventilation have survival rates well above 50%.
Besides, if we lose you, Althouse is likely to marry Howard or Chuck maybe Drago and that just won't do.
Rabel: "Besides, if we lose you, Althouse is likely to marry Howard or Chuck maybe Drago and that just won't do."
A gentleman never discusses his relationships with ladies.
What amazes me about the article is that it's just an awful piece of reporting.
Now, do I tend to agree with its assertions? Yes, for the reason Levi Starks meantions above. But, yah know, YoungHegelian & Levi Starks aren't the people making these claims, Trump & the automobile companies' management are!
If AP wants to pick out some academic to cherry pick the case, well, big fucking deal. Was there no supply chain academic who had a different opinion? They just asked one?!
And how about asking the management for the car companies what's their plans before passing judgement? They are, after all, the people who are going to be doing the actual work. If none of them would be interviewed on record, then say that. But, to not mention the views of management at all is simply a massive journalistic failure.
Big surprise, I know.
As far as how long it would take to ramp up production....
Well, how long did it take for International Harvester, General Motors, IBM, Smith Carona, Underwood, Rock-ola (yes, the jukebox maker!), or National Postal Meter to begin manufacturing rifles for World War II?
"Besides, if we lose you, Althouse is likely to marry Howard or Chuck maybe Drago and that just won't do. "
In that case, just shoot me now.
How could I have left Singer off the list??!? no wonder Rosie had to go to Riveting-- they suspended making sewing machines for the duration and took up Garand production instead.
"survival rates well above 50%"
needs citation
The person that wrote this article has never done anything in their life.
They teach other people to do stuff and give them a piece of paper.
Then their students go get a job and learn how to do it from people who have been doing it.
Thanks, Rabel, but no thanks. I hereby bequeath my government allotment of Mechanical Ventilation to you, bruh. I do need one last promise from you though: Never never NEVER CHUCK!
You're welcome. Me being a nice guy, I'm not gonna give you a hard time if you have a change of heart when you get to where you can't breath on your own and need help for a few days.
How does shuttering the economy jibe with "just do it for the children"?
One last favor? Don't leave me up here in freezing Wisconsin. Drag my bones, Lonesome Dove style, and put me 6 feet under Texas.
You're a good man.
Matt Sablan said...
"The national shortage of N95 respirator masks can be traced back to 2009 after the H1N1 swine flu pandemic, when the Obama administration was advised to replenish a national stockpile but did not, according to reports from Bloomberg News and the Los Angeles Times."
-- Wow. The fact it took a month to reveal this makes me wonder what else the news has missed.
3/23/20, 1:03 PM
You give them too much credit and innocence. They "missed" nothing. Those are EXACTLY the sort of stories/facts that they covere with a pillow until it stopped breathing and hope that no one else stumbles upon the body!
You CAN NOT make the light-bringer look bad OR OrangeManBad not look evil/stupid. That is journalism 101 these days.
Saw an article where an R.T explained how to service 4 on a single ventilator.
Just me, my thermometer, Tylenol, water supply, electrolytes, bible, and photographs of my lovely wife, darling daughter and my dear neighbors' handsome black Lab, Zeus.
My wife and I have our supply of hydroxychloroquine. I would recommend that. I got a supply for my paramedic son. Enough so that, if anyone in the family gets it, they can all take it.
LOL - AP the DNC propoganda machine forgets to say that Medtronic and 3M have pumped up their manufacturing of ventilators - these are real medical companies not the kind that AP is hyping to make Trump look bad.
Saw lotsa kids walkin, maybe, 30 inches apart.
I fucking HATE it when people call University professors for opinions about manufacturing!!! What do they know? Has that woman ever made as much as a donut for a living?
Mead - Thanks so much for the humorous quips, they made my day!
Polish respirator @AidVentil can be 3D printed and the combined cost of the components is roughly 45 USD.
It has crossed my mind that car companies making ventilators is an excellent barometer of the Deep State resistance. If the FDA (or whoever is responsible for certifying the ventilators) grasps the seriousness of the crisis, they will expedite the process. If it’s business as usual, then by the time the ventilators are certified for medical use we will — hopefully! — be past the worst of the crisis. If #Resistance is the order of the day, then the FDA will seriously drag it’s feet and search out nits to blow up, especially using paperwork to undermine the auto companies.
So let’s see what happens.
KAITLIN FUCKING WOWAK!
http://digitalmeasures.fs.mendoza.notredame.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/kdunn6/pci/K.%20Wowak%20CV%20-%2012-5-2019-1.pdf
14 page cv. Did she ever work an assembly line? Manage a chemical plant? Work as an engineer in a refinery? Build a house? Make a donut?
I cannot see it. But EXPERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It CANNOT BE DONE!
Fuck her, and fuck all people like her.
What bagoh20 said. These things aren't as serious a challenge as weaponry. 3D printing? Hmmm.
But Keep the SUITS out of it!
Trump, as usual, got the details wrong.
But General Motors, while they cannot mass-produce ventilators themselves, is helping a manufacturer of ventilators speed up their own production by leveraging GM's expertise.
Maybe this article will help clear up the confusion.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2020/03/20/gm-will-assist-ventilator-company-to-boost-production/#6cc5625a1756
This is why fact-checking Trump's statements is useless. He had the germ (pun intended) of a correct idea, but got specific facts wrong.
ALWAYS WITH THE NEGATIVE WAVES! Let her go study Bumble Bees in flight
"Don't leave me up here in freezing Wisconsin. "
Is it OK if we let you freeze before starting down south? It will make for a more relaxed trip.
Sure! Flash freeze, if you'd like. For fresh-from-the-field flavor!
"One last favor? Don't leave me up here in freezing Wisconsin. Drag my bones, Lonesome Dove style, and put me 6 feet under Texas. "
Well there's one kind of favor I'll ask for you
Well there's one kind of favor I'll ask for you
There's just one kind of favor I'll ask for you
You can delete my harddrive when I'm gone...
Bob Dylan - See That My Grave Is Kept Clean - YouTube
>>Thanks, Rabel, but no thanks. I hereby bequeath my government allotment of Mechanical Ventilation to you, bruh. I do need one last promise from you though: Never never NEVER CHUCK!
If that happens, there will be plenty of volunteers to hook Chuckles up to ventilator. And turn it on.
In reverse.
One last favor? Don't leave me up here in freezing Wisconsin. Drag my bones, Lonesome Dove style, and put me 6 feet under Texas.
You're a good man.
There are strange things done in the midnight sun
By the men who moil for gold;
The Arctic trails have their secret tales
That would make your blood run cold;
The Northern Lights have seen queer sights,
But the queerest they ever did see
Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge
I cremated Sam McGee.
Lets suppose that the moldy refuse has really hit the fan with the Wuhan Chinese Virus. Oh my bad--that's racist according to the twits on CNN. And by that I mean it sticks around--it doesn't go away like most of the other flu viruses when the weather gets warm. It infects and reinfects and is with us all the time. Let's also suppose the various existing drugs or combinations of them prove ineffective in stopping the progression of the virus once you are infected. Let's further suppose that despite the best efforts of the medical and pharmaceutical researchers and manufacturers, there's no effective vaccine.
While that's a possible outcome, it's not the most likely outcome. But if it comes to that, and is a long term problem, then yes, I expect US industry will ramp up to make ventilators and other necessary equipment. Most probably they won't have to--I mean if I believe the Chinese about saying they've got it licked and the reinfection rate is very low.
It's been nearly 80 years since US industrial companies "reinvented themselves" and turned to production of war material---but I don't think that their successor companies have forgotten how to do that.
So the ankle biters (and back biters) and other scalawags at MSNBC, CNN and the White House press corps can continue to play gotcha (signifying not much more than a bunch of four year old boys in a mud puddle playing with their pee pee's) but I've got more confidence in US industry than they do. I mean after all an industrial capitalist has to make a buck, and if there is opportunity and a demand, he's inclined to fill it.
Car companies won't make ventilators. Their vendors will. Those vendor's whose main business is making air moving devices, also known as ventilators. They already have the motor, the electronics, the ducting, the connections, the controllers, some related form of filtration, and know how to put it together. I have no doubt that if we ease the regulations and allow some creativity, they can produce them just fine and in short order. I would not be surprised that we find out one or more of them are better at it than the current suppliers. A lot of manufacturers avoid medical devices even though they could make them, becuase the regulations just make it less attractive business. I'm one of them. On the other side of that, medical device suppliers are expert at the regulations, and some times productivity is given less attention.
Rabel said...
Besides, if we lose you {Meade}, Althouse is likely to marry Howard or Chuck maybe Drago and that just won't do.
*************************
Can you imagine the wedding party, with Inga as bridesmaid and ARM as Best Man?
heh
Should I need one, I would gladly swap my ventilator for a second morphine drip in the other arm.
"Ventilators are sophisticated, powerful air pumps, cost about $25-50k."
What is sophisticated about ventilators is the software. It delivers pressurized air in sophisticated ways.
A blower, a power source, a user interface. If there weren't legal requirements for *very* high reliability in the mechanical components, the cost could come down by a factor of ten.
Thus many kinds of xPAP could be conscripted in dire circumstances. Personally, I would rather be hooked up by ordinary mask to a ASV PAP machine than intubated with the tube down the throat.
Trump refusing to be economy dictator is quite John Galt.
I've always wondered what they find when the whole team return to the world after lights of New York go out!
But for now Cuomo is keeping them on!
Well, how long did it take for International Harvester, General Motors,...
I'd actually be interested in seeing that. I know that a lot of factories were tooling up in 1941. Making tools and dies for production, drafting schematics for use, etc., takes time, so preparing to go into production before the US entered the war was an important part of the big jump in production during 1942.
But don't almost all of us — Trump haters or not — want to believe we will win, we'll conquer the virus, and the economy will spring back to life, as vibrant as ever?
Well the Democrats in Congress appear to reject that notion re:the economy. Judging by the long list of lefty agenda items they're trying to lard the bill with, they'd rather burn it down and screw the majority of hard-working people.
>> the long list of lefty agenda items they're trying to lard the bill with
They think they are doing The Lord's work here... strengthening unions, making airplanes emit slightly less carbon, making sure no wealthy person gets even a little more wealthy.
Congress is a deal making body, even in these bizarre times. Passing a bill with the parts both sides agree on makes the most sense. But then you lose the leverage to make the other side give you what you want.
So they default to their normal mode of haggling. There is an argument that says the less they intervene, the better. So perhaps the best possible outcome is Congress gridlocked, and we recover without their help.
Who was making ventilator in bygone days? And in which part of the country?
Can't they reopen, expand etc.
Does China locked up IP on patents?
What about much touted 3D printing?
Meade @ 2:46. Excellent post, sir. I wholly approve, and although I turn 79 on Hitler’s birthday, as does Ryan O’Neal, I am following your tack and for the same reasons. Praise the Lord!
But don't almost all of us — Trump haters or not — want to believe we will win, we'll conquer the virus, and the economy will spring back to life, as vibrant as ever?
Sure. It's just that approximately half of us want the "spring back" to take place after November.
Meade
God bless you, but you are not going to get the virus. But thanks for the ventilator anyway.
The only thing we have to fear, but fear itself, hyped President Roosevelt.
Trump's optimistic style is worse than hype - it is the audacity of false hope.
Trump is carrying on these daily lie sessions to replace his campaign rallies which are no longer possible. So he wanders into baiting reporters (ho hum) and Obama's supposed failure to manage the swine flu epidemic which lasted a year and killed only two-tenths of one percent of its victims - making it a relatively weak influenza strain. There was nothing that Obama did except immediately declare a national emergency . It took Trump two months to make the same declaration.
Malignant narcissists cannot relate to others so he needs to get out of the way in these dire circumstance. All Donnie does is exaggerate his wonderful performance as God - and lie like the Devil.
Tom Cotton shoots down 1400 page Pelosi Pork.
Nancy Pelosi's family - they are as vile as she is.
There was nothing that Obama did except immediately declare a national emergency.
Uh - I don't think that is accurate.
CNN back then:
"Since the H1N1 flu pandemic began in April, millions of people in the United States have been infected, at least 20,000 have been hospitalized and more than 1,000 have died, said Dr. Thomas Frieden, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."
that happened first.
The Poor Man's LLR-lefty Chuck gadfly: "There was nothing that Obama did except immediately declare a national emergency ."
Such a sad, pathetic, O-biden-bama suck up lie meant to rewrite history.
Obama did not declare a national emergency until October of 2009. Period.
Further, O-biden-bama allowed our national stockpile of N-95 masks to be drawn down to dangerous and then.....never ever replenished the supply.
Ever.
But do go on gadfly. You're doing "great".....
.............LOL
I was starting to respond to this an hour or so ago when a friend called me. He has a business building manufacturing machinery and does a lot with robotics. I've known him as a client, supplier, competitor and friend for more than 30 years.
He wants to build respirators and thought I might have some ideas. I'm glad he called today and not yesterday since after PDJT's call, I had looked into them a bit.
There isn't much involved in building a very basic respirator. Mainly it involves motorizing a manual respirator commonly used by EMTs in ambulances. These cost about $15-30.
Here's a video showing one homebuilt prototype. https://youtu.be/3ssVoWEVxw4
I could build one of these in my office using my 3D printer and bits and pieces I have laying around. But I think I'll let my buddy do it and just kibbitz.
So could GM/Ford et al build them? Sure. They would not do it on the auto assembly line. But they have extensive facilities where they build, maintain and repair complex plant and production machinery. They could set up mini production cells to build respirators pretty quickly.
Probably a bit more sophisticated than the one in the video but somewhat less than the $30,000 commercial hospital unit.
Here is a thread on an open source project to build respirators that might be of interest.
https://hackaday.io/project/170189-pandemic-pressure-control-ventilator
John Henry
Re how quickly GM et al could produce ventilators, assuming they could get the bags from a hospital supply house, they could be producing workable ventilators, of the style shown in the video, tomorrow. Shipping Tomorrow afternoon.
John Henry
Blogger Phidippus said...
catch up with the current state of the art in the product area,
Why? what would be wrong with making 1990 model ventilators?
Sure, there have been improvements in 30 years. But wouldn't a 30 year old ventilator design produced today be better than a state of the art design not available for 2 months?
John Henry
Inga,
We don't agree on much and I don't often have much nice to say to you.
But on this, producing masks and organizing your neighbors to do the same:
Good on you. Thanks for helping.
John Henry
Duh. He (the Cheeto) has all the sizzle and none of the steak.
Vicki from Pasadena
For sometime now since Trump started tussling with China and Europe I've been using Atlas Shrugged as lessons in supply chain management and stress testing when the "bottleneck" is on step 1.
How do I submit it for 6sigma award!?
Can sexdolls be "trained" and equipped to give mouth to mouth?
Think of after pandemic demand.
I'm not Laslo
William S. Knudsen--born in Denmark--started work for Henry Ford. Knudsen's particular genius was in designing automobile factory layouts for most efficient output. He and Henry got crosswise (as did a lot of other executives who worked for Henry Ford) and Knudsen went to General Motors.
Knudsen was one of FDR's original "dollar a year" men, who went to Washington D.C. to help mobilize the American economy for the war effort. FDR ultimately made Knudsen a 3 star Lt. General so he didn't have to take any guff from military procurement officers--rank tends to settle disputes in the military.
Knudsen was well known and respected in the American business community. His approach was interesting. He'd gather as many manufacturing executives as he could get in a room; he'd outline what the military needed by way of material or equipment. He'd ask the people in the room "Who can build what?" The Kelvinator refrigerator company could and did built machine guns--throwing out bullets rather than cooling butter. The military needed all kinds of equipment--not just tanks, planes, artillery and ships--and the American manufacturing community stepped up. It can do so again if needed.
Had the AP morons Googled "GM and ventilator" they would have found out that GM is teaming with an company, called Ventec, to help them manufacture an existing product. The GM/Ventec teams' stated goal is 200,000 ventilators. Nobody with any experience designing and manufacturing a complex product such as a ventilator would have ever thought for a moment that GM was going to magically create a ventilator from scratch - that's a multiyear project at best. What GM brings to the party is the ability to leverage its' world class supply chain to help Ventec get large quantities of the piece-parts needed for the existing Ventec design and help them with assembly. GM is already procuring parts and is also looking to use one of their existing plants to build these machines.
I liked Skeptical Voter's comment - if you want to learn more about the WW2 effort I recommend the book "Freedom's Forge" by Arthur Herman. William Knudsen was a national treasure.
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