Joe Biden: “no more, no new fracking” in my administrationhttps://t.co/gnHCex8NPv pic.twitter.com/bwvLaU2VyB— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) March 16, 2020
Here's the full transcript of the debate. That line came from the section of the debate that was about climate change. Biden had called climate change the "single greatest threat to our national security," because of the "great migrations" that will, he believes, occur. The moderator Jake Tapper had asked him why his "climate plan" has a $1.7 trillion when Sanders's plan is priced at $14 trillion.
"Is your plan ambitious enough?" Tapper prodded, and Biden talked about mass transportation and asserted: "We can lay down the tracks where nothing can be changed by the next president or following president, the one beyond that."
Then it was Bernie's turn, and he said we need "courage" to "take on the fossil fuel industry" which has been "lying for years" about climate change and ought to "be held criminally accountable." And "It's not a question of money" because it's "a world-changing event."
With that challenge, given a chance to respond, Biden said the line in the post title:
Number one, no more subsidies for the fossil fuel industry, no more drilling on federal lands, no more drilling, including offshore, no ability for the oil industry to continue to drill, period, ends, number one.
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152 comments:
The first and greatest weapon of a serious enemy attacking a Nation is to destroy that Nation’s petroleum industry. Biden has chosen sides.
Breaking News: Donald Trump has just won Pennsylvania.
If you think the economy is being hammered by the virus you ain't seen nothing yet say the Dems. Joe says not only am I going to ruin the economy, I'm going to make sure it stays ruined this time.
Here's the line that eliminates anyone from serious consideration in my mind: "Biden had called climate change the "single greatest threat to our national security,"
It is, at best, a guess. A guess at an existential danger. At best. At worst- chasing after it with extreme solutions will cripple us today and for the future- all for a guess. It is akin the the Aztecs ripping the hearts out of live people in order to ensure the sun coming up each morning.
Until there is an actual, workable, economical alternative renewable fuel that is fully developed, cutting us off of our current energy is suicidal. Wind turbines have shown to not be the solution. Solar panels are getting there, but energy storage from those panels is nowhere near the development it has to get to. Algae? Water? What are the fully developed alternatives?
Well, look on the bright side, if there is no gasoline you can't drive to the grocery store, and hoard toilet paper.
GO JOE, GO !!
Sanders, “They knew. Exxon Mobil knew. They lied. In fact, I think they should be held criminally accountable.”
WTF? Jail them for what? Based on what law? Pure and total insanity.
It's not fair to cherry pick the global warming dialog in the debate.
Bring that topic up to any liberal, you're going to get a remarkably stupid response. Every time.
Wuhan Virus is damaging the economy! Democrats: "Hold my beer.."
Somebody tell Joe he was winning. He doesn't have to say batshit crazy things anymore. Guess he just can't help himself.
Biden the moderate. Please. Biden's "moderation" is non-existent. He's a nut, with no real-world experience.
He's got a lock on this nomination! If he gets in trouble with Bernie again they'll cancel the primaries due to some coronavirus excuse and use the time to rig the results.
There was no reason for him to say this nonsense. This is what he believes. Yes, let's certainly become dependent on foreign oil from unstable regions again, with prices driven by the whims of emirs, sultans and Supreme Leaders. That makes sense.
I paid $1.95 for gas yesterday, and quite enjoyed it.
Democrats want Republicans to shut up.
Republicans want Democrats to keep talking.
Well, look on the bright side, if there is no gasoline you can't drive to the grocery store, and hoard toilet paper.
When they get done crashing the economy these same people will be selling their tp stock on Ebay for pennies on the dollar.
Is that from the Babylon Bee?
"single greatest threat to our national security," because of the "great migrations"
IOW, Africans.
I thought Trump was the greatest threat...in fact, the greatest existential threat... to our country. How many "greatest existential threats" can we have at the same time?
AOC calls him out on his multiple lies. When she’s right, she’s right.
https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1239368153496510465
Lets break our own energy independence.
This is a dream come true for Putin.
Who is in Putin's Pocket?
Joe won't work for us, we will work for Joe.
Last night, $ 1.70 for regular. Yeah, climate change is top of mind as I wake.
Commies gotta commie.
This rhetoric, along with seizure of the oil industry, was the impetus for the economic collapse in Venezuela.
Every crime the left accuse Trump of, Biden is the guilty party.
I can hear it now, journalists and opinion people on TV saying, "That's just Joe being Joe..."
If that's what they're going to say, then Trump is "just being Trump."
If Joe is telling union workers "You're full of shit," I guess that eliminates the issue of Trump's coarseness.
Great move, Joe. Well played. Petroleum workers are unionized, too...
The Toilet Paper Horde - sweeping out of the east like Genghis Khan!
Bernie made a feeble effort to actually fight for the nomination at one point, trapping Joe into saying he had not voted one way on a subject, then directing people to YouTube to see Sanders’ proof that Joe did vote that way. And that was it. They spent the remaining time saying why their experts would advise them better than Trump’s team, while praising Fauchi et al for the fine job they are doing leading Trump’s team. All in all a poor display of the skills needed to win the office in question.
(Misspelling corrected)
I definitely think that nothing could go wrong by us outsourcing our oil supply to Putin and the Saudis, who declared economic war on us while we are down.
Biden was later asked, "Do you think you care too much," while Sanders answered that his greatest weakness was that sometimes he tried to do too much at once and needed better time management.
Could they get any soft-ballier?
Definitely Biden’s call for zero travel bans will play well with moderates.
Biden's strategy would be very good for Burisma Holdings, would it not?
"Last night, $ 1.70 for regular. “
Trump only need ask Biden what he thinks the price of a gallon of gas should be. There is no right answer for all Democrats, not even a compromise answer.
Obama's true children
Given the centrality of fossil fuel to economic development, it is hard for me not to wonder whether Biden and Sanders love the environment more than the poor.
"Biden's strategy would be very good for Burisma Holdings,”
Putin laughing GIF goes here.
Bernie pissed off a lot of people, including democrats, when he said the first thing we need to do (in dealing with corona) is "shut this President up".
What subsidies for the fossil fuel industries? Is that even a thing anymore?
How is it possible to keep in one's head both:
"Great migrations are the biggest threat to our security"
and
"Open borders, nobody'll get arrested during first 100 days, and then felons only"
I guess Biden really doesn't want to carry Pennsylvania in the general.
Also, enjoy the latest Democratic Presidential clown car update.
They will have us all living like it was the 1400s if we give them a chance!
Here is good news for anyone who is deeply concerned, and wants to purify themselves! I am a chemical engineer and I will be delighted to visit your home and remove all vestiges of the refining and petrochemical industry from your life. Think of it as a "Go Green for Greta" kind of thing. Just let me know here, and I will come right along to your place as soon as this virus thing has run its course.
The moderator Jake Tapper had asked him why his "climate plan" has a $1.7 trillion when Sanders's plan is priced at $14 trillion.
My climate plan is $99 gazillion -- so how do you like them apples?.
Every time I see Trump on stage with the medical professionals/CEOs during his news conferences, I always wish one of them was president, not Trump.
And yet, he's still a better option than Biden or Bernie. By far.
Without petroleum, how will we continue to manufacture pharmaceuticals?
stupid $2 a gallon gas!
you Know what america NEEDS; a good $6.50 gallon of gas!!
think HOW MUCH that will help!!!
Count me as someone who is damned glad Donald John Trump IS our President.
If this country literally elects a democrat and shits down all drilling for oil it will be the beginning of a very serious civil war.
Mr. Forward said...
What subsidies for the fossil fuel industries? Is that even a thing anymore?
It never was a thing.
They get the same manufacturing tax deductions as every other manufacturer get. No more, no less.
it's Almost as if Joe Biden's family was working for foreign energy interests
it's Almost as if MOST democrats families were working for foreign energy interests
oh, that's right: They ARE
nevermind
how many zeroes in gazillion,
Todd,
Yes it’ll be like the 1400s. That’s what they want. They’re socialists.
What did socialists use to see at night before candles?
Electricity.
So illegal felons have free rein for 100 days? My God, think of the campaign commercials. Even if you think it’s a good idea, why would you ever verbalize the distinction between felons and the rest of the illegals? Unnecessary and dumb, dumb, dumb.
I'll trade no more "subsidies" for fossil fuels for no more subsidies for wind and solar power.
Just asking but it seems as though we already have more then enough gas using the existing wells,and as fewer and fewer young folks stop owning cars, take public transportation etc, doubtful we will need to drill on public lands for example.
Biden: "Look man, the Flintstones didn't have gasoline and they had a pretty great life. They didn't have any problems getting around, and there were plenty of jobs at the rock quarry."
The thing is, roesch/voltaire, not too long ago, I thought we had enough toilet paper.
tds said...
"Open borders, nobody'll get arrested during first 100 days, and then felons only"
3/16/20, 8:00 AM
This "nobody'll get arrested during first 100 days", does that go for Americans too or just non-citizen felons?
I want my "100 day commit a felony and not get arrested" pass too!
Doing jobs Americans won't do?
So Biden just lost Pennsylvania?
Breaking News: Donald Trump has just won Pennsylvania.
Who's counting the votes in Pennsylvania?
Under Biden no illegals will ever be deported unless they are felons, but when the local authorities arrest them for felonies, they should not tell the federal government, but he’s not for open borders, and once here, they get free health care.
No wonder he’s worried about a “great migration “.
But Ann will vote for him anyway. Asserted reason: Trump is the extreme one.
"We can lay down the tracks where nothing can be changed by the next president or following president, the one beyond that."
This is the face of fascism.
Shortages, e.g. TP, are because the price is too low. Shortages are always because of price controls, in this case the anti-gouging laws.
$10 a roll TP would result in plenty, with lots of people economizing on use too.
Oddly enough it also incentivises the arrival of more TP as well, a two-fer.
roesch/voltaire said: "Just asking but it seems as though we already have more then enough gas using the existing wells,and as fewer and fewer young folks stop owning cars..."
The young love to live in the dense urban areas and use public transportation or bicycles. That is until they get a bit older and want to buy a house, or raise a family. Then they move to the outer rings, the suburbs or even (gasp) the exurbs where they discover that having a car and being able to go where and when you want is a good thing. They'll need gasoline.
The urbanists have been proposing for years that we all move to more dense urban areas and cut out the suburban life. (it makes for directing how people live much easier). Yet even today, with a couple of exceptions, the urban areas continue to lose population and the suburbs continue to grow in non-stop fashion. And those couple of exceptions will soon peter out (I'm looking at you, Brooklyn.)
Bob Boyd said...
Who's counting the votes in Pennsylvania?
George Soros' people; same as All the other states. Why? We've been assured that voter fraud is a myth
My big takeaway from the debate is that it’s not just the Prog voter that’s enbubbled. Their politicians (and their handlers) are no longer intellectually nimble enough to play both sides of the net. It’s a phenomenon that’s been observable for some time now. We have to live in their world, but they are increasingly unaware that our world even exists. They either pay a heavy political price for that or they have to use force to get their way. Historically, there’s little known middle ground.
"The man on the moderate side of the one-on-one debate said something so extreme"
So, Althouse, do consider this old man "serious" and "competent"? Does he "express American values"? Will he be "boring" and "pragmatic" and avoid "chaos"?
Assuming, of course, those are still your standards.
The IMF found that direct and indirect subsidies for coal, oil and gas in the U.S. reached $649 billion in 2015. Pentagon spending that same year was $599 billion.
Rhhardin just made the case for a carbon tax. He must be an acolyte of global warming gadfly William Connelly.
roesch/voltaire said:
"Just asking but it seems as though we already have more then enough gas using the existing wells,and as fewer and fewer young folks stop owning cars..."
as Al Smith would say: Let's take a look at the record;
America Still Loves Cars, Less than 10 percent of U.S. households are car-free
According to the latest Census Bureau estimates, only 8.7 percent of U.S. households reported not having any vehicles available last year. That’s actually down slightly from a year ago and is at about the same level as before the Great Recession.
Yes! If there's anything the health situation is telling us right now, it's that we need more dense population centers and people crowded into trains and buses!
MayBee WINS THE INTERNET, SAYING...
Yes! If there's anything the health situation is telling us right now, it's that we need more dense population centers and people crowded into trains and buses!
indeed maybe
https://twitter.com/davereaboi/status/1239540437205090304
What are these subsidies to the fossil fuel industry we keep hearing about?
the imf, that payoffs state oil companies like pdvsa and pemex
Breaking news: Biden is Bernie in moderate clothing. The whole Democrat Party is down with Bernie's socialist green path, just that you can't say that and get elected. But as Joe says, each "moderate" Democrat President lays down tracks that even subsequent (Republican) presidents can't dismantle. See, e.g., Obamacare. Once the oil and gas industry infrastructure is destroyed its gonna be hard to get multinationals to reinvest.
But Democrats (and Chamber of Commerce Republicans) have been importing voters for 50 yers that might be stupid or short-sighted enough to go for that deal. And they count on crises like this to get a lot of big fucking deals done.
"Biden was later asked, "Do you think you care too much," while Sanders answered that his greatest weakness was that sometimes he tried to do too much at once and needed better time management."
Ah, the humble brag. Those sorts of answers went out of fashion in job interviews in the 90's. Disqualifying to my ears.
I'm looking forward to the election when all the geniuses, who congratulate themselves for belonging to the party of really smart people, vote for Biden.
Stores could have easily stopped this run on toilet paper by limiting one package per customer. They didn't. Buy as much as you want. Why? Plenty in the supply chain.
which is the goal, of the exercise, but the press covers up both waldorf and statler's flubs,
you Want moderate? HERE'S your MODERATE!
This is a case for a nationalization, literally a nationalization, of crucial factories and industries
Apparently, the media industry is Exempt; since it is owned by the DNC
"nationalization of whole industry" = FASCISM. Definition of.
r/v, YOU ARE AND IDIOT! Do you have any idea what Oil goes into besides Gas? You want only oil from SA and Russia? You cannot live a modern life with oil, it goes into so many things. Those young people that ride their bikes, just how will they ride them with oil? On wooden wheels, and no seats or oil for the chains? That is just a start. Idjt!
The IMF found that direct and indirect subsidies for coal, oil and gas in the U.S. reached $649 billion in 2015.
They're subsidizing you and me.
LYNNDH said...
r/v, YOU ARE AND IDIOT! Do you have any idea what Oil goes into besides Gas? You want only oil from SA and Russia? You cannot live a modern life with oil, it goes into so many things. Those young people that ride their bikes, just how will they ride them with oil? On wooden wheels, and no seats or oil for the chains? That is just a start. Idjt!
Before petroleum, bearing grease was made with whale blubber. Every piece of machinery that has a moving part requires a lubricant.
Dave Begley
If Bernie is elected,do you think he will go whole hog on executive orders, including ordering prosecution of oil executives? I do.
Wow. Now every Democratic candidate is against fixing global warming. Against fracking, in favor of making global warming worse.
Is this a controversial claim?
Cap an oil well, kill a whale instead.
Radial environmentalists and the left half of the Democrat Party want to shut down the economy. It doesn’t matter to them that shutting down oil production in the US is a Putin goal, because they know that the stuff they say about Putin is bullshit.
Or they are extremely adept at “doublethink."
'Before petroleum, bearing grease was made with whale blubber.' Yay! Everybody back into the whaling boats!
If the earth is warming (and that is contentious), we may be contributing in a small way to that. But given that for the last 2.6 million years we've been in an ice age, and still are (google it if you don't believe me), it seems that the norm for earth is much warmer than it is at current. So a warming earth would be RETURNING TO NORMAL. The two largest countries in the world, Russia and Canada, have vast tracts of sparsely inhabited land, which few people live in because it's so cold. Hint hint. It seems to me that NO discussion is currently going on about the tremendous upside of a warming earth, and indeed the discussion never happened at any point. We went from 'scientists say the earth may be warming' to 'WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE EARTHS CLIMATE BACK TO WHAT IT WAS IN 1970' in the twinkling of an eye. Funny that. Suspicious that.
Hey, great idea guys, not sure why someone didn't think of this earlier!
OK, so we need to switch to a "renewable" resource to replace fossil fuels, right?
Well, "animals" are renewable! We could switch from oil and gas to like the LARGEST animals on the entire planet! Whales! We could use whales! They have "blubber" and "oil" and "fat"! All that stuff could be rendered down to liquids that could be used to replace petroleum and kerosene ! Could be used to lubricate stuff and burn in lambs and for heating, ALL KINDS OF THINGS! Think of the possibilities! And they're animals so they are renewable! Cool idea, hu? That should make the enviros happy! Patent pending!
Biden is only a moderate compared to Sanders.
Of course, to be truly categorized as a "moderate" requires actually having positions. It is unclear if Biden is aware he actually has positions, which is apt since half the time he does not appear to be aware where he is or what he is doing. His life story is Biden befuddled and it is not gotten better with age.
I was looking over that part of the transcript. What is that part (that Biden mentions twice) about "laying the tracks so that no future president can change it"? Both times he starts to talk about high-speed rail (and other stuff), then says this phrase or thereabouts. And each time I wasn't sure if he means, Start on a path which can't be undone (for some reason), or, We need that high speed rail so let's lay the tracks! Then the next president will just have to finish the job (for some reason)!
The transcript sounds confused. I think he and I are both confused.
The IMF found that direct and indirect subsidies for coal, oil and gas in the U.S. reached $649 billion in 2015. Pentagon spending that same year was $599 billion.
The IMF called them subsidies. That doesn’t mean that are. Hint: they’re not. Being able to write off business costs of drilling is NOT a subsidy.
Biden talked about mass transportation
One good thing about mass transit is it keeps the roadways from getting too crowded.
And now one good thing about private automobiles is they keep mass transit from getting too crowded.
Not a small consideration if we are entering an age of pandemics.
Dave Begley said..."Sanders, “They knew. Exxon Mobil knew. They lied. In fact, I think they should be held criminally accountable.”
This has already been tried in the State of New York. Judge dismissed the case.
One of the Stupidest Litigations in the Country Dies with a Whimper by Francis Menton at the Manhattan Contrarian blog. He has a number of other linked posts on the case.
It is an indication of how stupid these two candidates are that their positions and statements are not updated based on our country's current dire situation. The biggest issue going forward is not climate change - which is complete and utter nonsense - but disengagement from China as much as possible. This means restructuring supply chains; trying to draw manufacturing back to the US or to the USMCA area; creating a workforce for those supply chains, which means we need more people with vocational and technical training, not "free," and useless college educations; and continuing to build on our dominant positions in energy and raw materials, not discarding them. We also need stronger border security, which may in the future involve checking not just passports but the health of the individuals entering the country as well.
All the things progressives have tried to push on the country in recent years - open borders; public transport; forcing people into denser living conditions in large cities; globalization - are dying right now and they don't even realize it.
The biggest near-term problem is going to be recovering from our current situation. We are about to lose thousands of small businesses, many of which will never come back. I am not sure right now that what we are doing, especially in places like Ohio and NYC, is the right thing to do. I am in GA right now and I notice that Governor Kemp has, in contrast, not ordered the closure of restaurants.
These two men in this debate are truly idiots. God help us if Biden gets elected. Not sure we have ever had a dumber person as a serious candidate for President.
Biden has a point. In 1348 no one drilled for oil and there were zero corona virus deaths in all of Europe. The pre-modern world was organic, wholistic, and natural.
Biden has stated he will spend $500 Billion for Climate Change. I'm not sure where the $1.7 trillion number comes from. Is that the new proposed number?
The D's are just as crazy about Climate change as they are about illegal immigration and open borders. Oh, and taking all the guns away.
We are no longer importing oil thanks to fracking of Shale Oil. Which Biden will get rid of.
Ken B said... "Biden has a point. In 1348 no one drilled for oil and there were zero corona virus deaths in all of Europe. The pre-modern world was organic, wholistic, and natural."
Hmm... 1348 - seems like something very significant began near that point in history. Something involving ships arriving in southern Europe with rats and fleas and they brought something with them that would have a profound effect on society. If only I could remember what it was...
Here is a manual to get everyone ready for a new life in Joe Biden's fossil fuel-free world. And you can get it via the Althouse Amazon portal!
Think of the possibilities! And they're animals so they are renewable! Cool idea, hu? That should make the enviros happy! Patent pending!
don't forget scrimshaw! MOST plastic parts can be replaced with scrimshaw!
EVERY part of a whale can be used to replace things now made out of oil
And, it's Not JUST whales MOST Charismatic megafauna can be used to combat global warming.
Just look at pianos! Currently, their keys are made of what; you guessed it! PLASTIC!
It turns out, that elephants' teeth will make an acceptable substitute !
AND what do those elephants do?
They produce CO2, through deforestation ('cause they think trees are tasty)
THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS!
Most of the problems with our environment are caused by Charismatic megafauna!
Even this current Covfefe-19 problem can be traced back to 'wet food markets'
AND WHAT DO THEY SELL AT THESE WET MARKETS? you Know it! Charismatic megafauna
Eliminate Charismatic megafauna, for the sake of our planet's health!
Biden is a "Invade the world, invite the world" globalist. Bernie doesn't want an interventionist foreign policy. Biden is a Goldman Sachs/Globalist, Bernie isn't.
Otherwise, Biden is just Bernie with a Moderate facade. When attacked by Trump for his extremist stands, he will do the reverse of what he did with Bernie. In the last debate it was "Forget my old votes, I'm a Progressive!". When he debates Trump it will be "Look at my old votes, I'm no radical"
And who knew Joe Biden was responsible for the Paris Accords AND getting 150,000 men out of Iraq?
Little did we know in 2009-2015 that Joe Biden was the REAL president. Obamba was just a talking head, Joe's puppet.
Sanders, “They knew. Exxon Mobil knew. They lied. In fact, I think they should be held criminally accountable.”
They were tried in court and Exxon Mobil won the case. I don't think Exxon Mobil can sue for defamation, but that is what Sanders is doing now.
On Biden, what he is proposing is what Jeremy Corbin was suggesting in November in the UK. Corbin's party was destroyed in the general election.
rcocean said...
And who knew Joe Biden was responsible for the Paris Accords AND getting 150,000 men out of Iraq?
Little did we know in 2009-2015 that Joe Biden was the REAL president. Obamba was just a talking head, Joe's puppet.
3/16/20, 9:55 AM
Well to be truthful, a LOT of us knew the big O was nothing but an empty suit with a nice crease BUT who knew that it was Joe's hand up his ass making his lips move?!?!
Just kidding! Joe can't make his own lips move coherently, how is he going to do that for some other dummy?
When did the Democrat Party abandon Economics ?
Johnson? Clinton? Obama?
They used to know better. That was back when they supported the working man.
Yeah, R/V, taking public transportation seems like such a good idea during a pandemic.
I'm sure none of the old folks in Italy got infected while they were riding on a crowded bus. *Cough, cough*
I have a newfound appreciation for my car. I wiped down the interior yesterday and I'm getting around town in glorious isolation, unlike the unfortunates who have to worry about the guy sitting next to them coughing up a lung.
"When did the Democrat Party abandon Economics ?
Johnson? Clinton? Obama?"
Wilson? FDR?
No more air conditioning, no more private jets.
I want my "100 day commit a felony and not get arrested" pass too!
Plus they get deported, are not prosecuted by their country of origin and come back illegally. And then get deported again. And of course, if you're an illegal alien you can even get away with murder CF: the woman killed in SF.
China seeded the virus in Italy with their "hug a Chinese" propaganda campaign.
Anyone still using the Italy as the model for the U.S. an alarmist.
“ What subsidies for the fossil fuel industries? Is that even a thing anymore?”
The big “subsidy” is typically considered Depletion. It is very much like Depreciation, but for extractive industries. It allows for recapture of spent money as an expense, instead of treating all monies received as profit.
Let’s take a hypothetical. You lease and drill a well (then frack it) for $1m. It is expected to pump 100k barrels of oil. That is $10 a barrel. Say, in the first year, the well produces 20k barrels, that sell at $25 a barrel. Total sales then are $500k. But $200k (20k barrels@$10) of that is expensed, thus reducing taxable income to $300k. Note though that the $200k is not actually profit, but rather a return of capital, which is why it isn’t taxed. Depreciation is similar, but based on the expected lifetime of the building or item being depreciated. Again, not profit, but return of capital. If everything goes this way, when the well goes dry, after pumping the 100k barrels, the business will have received $2.5m as income, with $1m as a return of the original $1m spent to drill, frack, and complete the well, and $1,5m as taxable income. Note that if depletion is disallowed, the original $1m spent on the well will decrease at a compound rate, siphoned off as taxes at the applicable tax rate for every succeeding well drilled. Thus, C[t]=C[0]*(1-Tx)!t (t=time, C[t]=Capital at time “t”, C[0]=initial Capital, and Tx=Applicable tax rate).
Only economic illiterates call either depletion or depreciation Subsidies, etc. that is because the business has already spent the money. Normally the money that a business spend to make money is deducted from the income received as a result of spending the money as “Expenses” before calculating Profit, and ultimately from that, Taxable Income. But the IRS doesn’t allow you to deduct capital costs that are going to have lasting benefit in future years immediately. Rather, it forces you to spread the recapture of your capital costs as either Depreciation or Depletion Expenses, depending on whether the metric utilized is time (Depreciation) or units of production (Depletion). I can’t remember if this is Accounting 101 or 102 - it has been a half century since I took those classes, but it is about as basic as you can get, in terms of accounting and corporate taxation.
Let me repeat - DEPLETION IS NOT A SUBSIDY, BUT A RETURN OF CAPITAL.
Biden has a phalanx of media enablers to protect him but that only gets them so far. Slow Joe will inevitably have to have photo ops where he comes in contact with *GASP* the people and they will ask him a simple question and he will lose it and challenge them to a push up contest are tell them "they are full of shit!"
Was it Mickey Kaus that talked about the liberal cocoon the liberal press creates around liberal candidates that makes democrats unable to fend for themselves during a campaign?
I think Bernie and Biden don't go far enough - let's ban hydro-carbon powered vehicles now! Not only will it be good for the planet, but it will also limit the ability of hoarders to strip the grocery story bare of toilet paper and bottled water. Sure, there will be modest disruption as we all adopt the Amish life style, but we MUST think of the FUTURE. For the children.
Liberal hacks and far left liberals like my brother believe the bull that the govt gives ginormous subsidies to fossil fuel companies.
I don't know a democrat back in Kansas or Missouri that wants to shut down oil or have gas shoot up to $7 a gallon. That's just crazy talk. Most if not all of the heating in the blue states of the east coast still run on oil or gas furnaces. Don't let your mouth sign checks your ass can't cash.
Biden had called climate change the "single greatest threat to our national security," because of the "great migrations" that will, he believes, occur.
So, let's see if I have this correct: "great migrations" are the "single greatest threat to our national security," but we shoudl shut down ICE, stop deportations, and open up our borders it anyone who wants to come?
Do I have that correct?
You know, funding ICE and building the border wall would be a lot less extreme, and a lot less expensive for the US, than Biden's or Bernie's, "climate plans"
And iof things start to get serious, simply shooting everyone we catch trying to cross the border illegally would mostly stop the illegal immigration problem really fast
Browndog said...
It's not fair to cherry pick the global warming dialog in the debate.
Bring that topic up to any liberal, you're going to get a remarkably stupid response. Every time.
Then no "liberal" should ever be given any political power. Because as long as they remain religious fruitcakes who are desperate to destroy the US economy, they're not qualified to govern.
And no "but they won't be able to carry out their insane plans" is not a defense
Bruce Hayden, THANK you for that discussion of depletion. I get so frustrated when people talk about the "obscene profits" of oil companies with zero understanding of how much those same oil companies have to spend, in good times and in bad, in order to have production available when it's needed.
An oil company may have wells that are profitable at many different price points - some that can be "turned on" only when oil hits $50 a barrel or more because it's so deep, so viscous, or otherwise has some limiting characteristic that makes it hard to produce. And of course it cost the same 7-10 million dollars (your example of $1mm makes for easy math, but I thought it might be instructive to provide a real world example of how much it actually does cost to drill a well in south TX) to drill that well as it costs to drill a well that's economic at $30/bbl - but right now, that well is shut in and producing NOTHING.
They also consider any theoretical costs that they can attribute to climate change through their assumption laded models as subsidies to fossil fuels.
Forget that the vast majority of those costs are bullshit, and the rest are offset by benefits of low cost energy.
Let’s say that the cost of having to look at contrails in an otherwise clear sky is a subsidy to air travel, well the ability to get wherever you need to go if you need to more than offsets it.
What we really need is a ban on fossil fools like these two codgers.
Bruce Hayden:
That was excellent, thanks for taking the time.
Bruce said...
Only economic illiterates AND INTENTIONAL LIARS call either depletion or depreciation Subsidies
cify*
cify* Clarified it for ya!
sticking it to BIG OIL - makes a good leftwing bullshit talking point. among many others.
roesch/voltaire said...
Just asking but it seems as though we already have more then enough gas using the existing wells,and as fewer and fewer young folks stop owning cars, take public transportation etc, doubtful we will need to drill on public lands for example.
1: "Public lands" belong to ALL of the public, not just left wing fruitcakes. Whether or not you want lower gas prices, the rest of us do.
2: The vast majority of that "public transport", like, oh, busses, uses gas for its power. Why in the world would we NOT use "public lands" to provide the fuel. for "public transportation"?
3: The Federal Gov't "owns" a lot of land in States NOT controlled by the Left, and not a lot of land in the States controlled by the Left.
So I'll offer you a fair and equitable rule: the only Representatives who can vote on rules for how the "public lands" are used in a State are Representatives for States where that % or more of the State is also controlled by the Federal Govt.
So, if a State has 85% of it's surface area in Fed controlled public lans, then the only members of Congress who can vote to impose restriction on how that land can be used, are people elected from a State where at least 85% is controlled by the Fed.
IOW: Stop imposing your insane religious delusions on other people
"Just asking but it seems as though we already have more then enough gas using the existing wells,and as fewer and fewer young folks stop owning cars, take public transportation etc, doubtful we will need to drill on public lands for example."
Alternative fuels will eventually become the norm, but only after true breakthroughs by the private sector and not government-mandated anything. Technology will continue to evolve/progress to make dependence on fossil fuels lower, and new industries will arise to help facilitate the evolution. It will take time, and that's what the statists can't stand — they want to stomp their feet and demand it now when the technologies are imperfect and the use of fossil fuels is still too crucial to our basic economy.
Does he know that our foreign enimies don't generally get to vote for our President? Besides Joe, even if Putin and all the rest if them voted for you, it still wouldn't be enough to make up for all the Bernie Bros you lost.
I rather enjoy using the bus, most of the time, although there are occasionally irritating passengers; the amusements happen far more frequently than the irritations, however.
What happens when the state closes the public transit system? At that point, I'm forced to buy a car or drop out of the work force. In my own position, neither one of those eventualities (and perhaps there are others that don't immediately occur to me) would be a catastrophe: but for many people, who do important, necessary jobs, who have families dependent on them, it might be. I suppose that's why this step hasn't been taken yet. Maybe the state will give everyone an electric car.
What happens when the bus operators, either out of justifiable precaution or of panic-induced fear, stop showing up for work? Not a few of them here in Eugene are beyond 60 years of age or close to it, I think.
roesch/voltaire said...
The IMF found that direct and indirect subsidies for coal, oil and gas in the U.S. reached $649 billion in 2015. Pentagon spending that same year was $599 billion.
Bruce Hayden answered this well. I'm just going to highlight the "indirect subsidies".
Whenever you see that, and the person making that claim isn't stating exactly what the "indirect subsidies" are, and you know you're dealing with someone who's being dishonest.
Because they're doing something along the lines of scoring basic accounting principles as an "indirect subsidy."
The future of energy is nuclear. All energy is nuclear in origin anyway, so cut out the middle bullshit. It will be far easier to create the technology to make nuclear energy even more feasable than it already is than it will be to make other alternatives truely capable of replacing most fossil fuels. You still get to keep your electric cars. Maybe air travel will remain fossil based, but electricity should go mostly nuclear if you truely care about global warming. Well, do ya, punk?
I liked an earlier commenter's line about Biden and Bernie as "fossil fools". But the idea of these doddering old geezers (I'm a year or two younger than either one of them) spouting their demented nonsense re climate change and fossil fuels brought to mind something from Shakespeare. With apologies to the Bard:
"These two fools are but poor players who strut and fret their hour upon the stage and (hopefully) will be heard no more. Their tales are told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
Of the two of them, Bernie holds the edge for sound and fury, but Biden's babble takes the prize for signifying nothing.
Alternative fuels will eventually become the norm, but only after true breakthroughs by the private sector and not government-mandated anything.
GM claimed 2 weeks ago that the EVs they'll begin producing in 2 years will have comparable manufacturing costs to gas vehicles, but they didn't say how many they'd have to sell to make any money. They won't sell many with $2 gas and China in turmoil.
Learned something new today. I knew that "depletion" allowances weren't subsidies, but had never really understood what they were.
Depreciation, OTOH, is very easy to understand and is more often dealt with and explained. Anyone who's ever rented out a house knows about it.
Explaining "depletion" as "depreciation" makes perfect sense.
Worldwide oil demand has plummeted. Rather than cutting production to keep prices up, the Sauds and Russkis are keeping production up to maintain market share, hoping to drive frackers out of business with oil prices below production costs. In both countries oil is state owned and operated, and they NEED the oil revenue to keep running. Here, lower oil prices lead to greater economic activity. Some frackers go out of business, some areas of the country suffer some negative job growth as it picks up elsewhere. And when the price goes back up- the frackers that survived the downturn expand. The wonders of a free market economy.
So, Althouse, do consider this old man "serious" and "competent"? Does he "express American values"? Will he be "boring" and "pragmatic" and avoid "chaos"?
Assuming, of course, those are still your standards.
Plus did he ever fakepologize for that AA-damning video that she said disqualified Biden? Or will she just take off her clothes? Again?
basic accounting principles
__________++++++++++++++
in a free people free market capitalist value calculation system.
there are no accounting principles in socialism - lives are dispensed and disposed
Look around your house, your office, where you shop. Try and figure out what items are made of plastic. Now. Where the fuck do you think plastic comes from.
If you vote for either Biden or Sanders it is because you hate people. People need jobs and these left-wing loons are perfectly happy to destroy their livelihoods.
The average gas well declines in production by a factor of 10 in 18 months, and another factor of 10 in the next 18. Biden is stupid or lying, he will never ban gas drilling or fracking, but Hunter may get a few more Board seats. Just because the cool kids ride the bus does not help people heat their homes in winter, Biden truly wants us to freeze in the dark.
The single biggest source of global warming risk is the expected increase in coal-fired electricity generation in the developing world, particularly in China (#3 in coal reserves) and India (#4 in coal reserves). The second-biggest is existing coal-fired electricity generation in the developed world. Further, coal-fired electricity generation is the area of energy production that kills the most people from non-warming-related causes and, due to the centralized and fixed-location generation, is the easiest to replace from an engineering perspective.
Any intelligent and responsible person actually worried about global warming and human well-being would monomanically focus on developing and deploying inexpensive carbon-free baseload electrical generation. That would reduce emissions the most, and save the most lives, while taking the least effort and expense.
Anyone who is talking about any other action is either an idiot, or doesn't actually care about global warming. Because even if you think that we will have to (say) massively reduce the use of oil in transportation, you would leave that for after you did the easy stuff. The only rational reasons you'd focus on oil right now is if 1) you were deliberately trying to rouse opposition to action on global warming, or 2) you have a preexisting hatred of the oil industry or oil-based transportation and see global warming not as a real threat but simply as an excuse to enact your hatred in policy.
And even if you somehow are worrying about oil-based emissions, ending oil drilling in the US will do almost nothing to affect them. All it would actually do is give money to Russia, Saudi Arabia, and Iran. Anyone proposing that is either an outright moron or an agent of a hostile foreign power.
Steven:
If true, then the US and UN should bomb all those coal-fired power plants in China and India. Right?
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...Bernie made a feeble effort to actually fight for the nomination at one point, trapping Joe into saying he had not voted one way on a subject, then directing people to YouTube
--
"Go to the ewe tube!" he said.
I especially enjoyed the split-screens with Berno hunching, grimacing and scowling in his box.
WuFlu is such a perfect fit for the Emmanuel bros. Thin the herd of undesirables and grab power in the process.
Dave Begley,
That might help in more ways than one. The smoke generated from the bombing would waft around the world (or at least the Northern Hemisphere) and help cool the planet.
I agree with Steve about baseload generation. The reason renewables are so expensive is that they require baseload generation for when the sun and the wind are nil. Nuclear is about the only alternative right now that emits no CO2 and lets us keep our standard of living.
Well..recently, supposed advances regarding fusion.
I took a look at the IMF study. The "indirect" subsidies are not even depletion, as Bruce Hayden explained. Rather, the IMF calculates the difference between retail gasoline prices and the "true" price including environmental externalities. In other words, if they believe that the environmental damage done by consuming a gallon of gas is $1, then that is the subsidy.
In other words, complete garbage. Oh, and every time you breathe out, you are adding CO2, so you are being subsidized as well
Biden is running for President
OF THE AMISH
So if I understood Grandpa Joe correctly, all men, and white, Asian, and Hispanic women will be excluded from his search for the most qualified individual to be Vice President.
That's fair, I guess.
17 times as many people die from the effects of cold every year vs the effects of heat.
CO2 is plant food. As more is produced, the earth gets greener, expanding crop land and livable space on this planet.
Nobody has conclusively proved CO2 causes warming, certainly not at the levels of CO2 we are experiencing.
Meanwhile there is a rush to produce electric cars, with no thought about how massively environmentally destructive the depleted batteries are and will be.
Serious people support nuclear, the safest, cleanest energy source we currently have. But none of the alarmists are serious people, or they’d be moving north before we all burn up in 10 years.
Howard said...
Rhhardin just made the case for a carbon tax. He must be an acolyte of global warming gadfly William Connelly.
He was responding to this:
rhhardin said...
Shortages, e.g. TP, are because the price is too low. Shortages are always because of price controls, in this case the anti-gouging laws.
$10 a roll TP would result in plenty, with lots of people economizing on use too.
Oddly enough it also incentivises the arrival of more TP as well, a two-fer.
The stupid Howard is on the computer today.
Nuclear fission, fusion, hydro, tidal, geothermal, ocean thermal, batteries and smart grids to support solar and wind, biofuels, solar power satellites . . . there are a lot of possible sources of carbon-free baseload power, and while I have my opinions on what's practical, giving any of those answers indicates a basic understanding of the issues and policy options. Even "massively expand fracking for hydrocarbons to generate electricity, to reduce net carbon emissions over coal" is a serious proposal.
But a serious candidate's serious answer on global warming does not sound like "I'll block oil drilling" or "I'll go after ExxonMobil executives". Both of those answers are the same as saying either "I don't believe global warming is a problem, but I'm too craven to admit it" or "I'm an ignorant fool".
Nuclear is good for reliable, sustainable base load and as a low-density alternative to mass Green deal environmental disruptions and elevated ecological risk. The weakest link for electric-only applications remains batteries, which are low-density, ineffecient energy transports for high loads (e.g. cars), and a poor substitute for biofuel (e.g. petroleum) as an energy source and derivative products.
Global warming is chaotic (e.g. evolutionary), not progressive, and not global. The problem with the "greenhouse effect" characterized in isolation and anthropogenic global warming hypothesis is the efficacy and uniformity of heat transport from the atmosphere to the ground. Despite the models (i.e. hypotheses) assertions, the perturbation have been chaotic and distributed.
Even "massively expand fracking for hydrocarbons to generate electricity, to reduce net carbon emissions over coal" is a serious proposal.
IF
if the CO2 climate change/global warming/global/cooling threat were ACTUALLY perceived to be real,
BY the people spouting it...
They would HAVE to be saying
A) we need MASSIVE fraccing for MORE natural gas, to replace oil and coal; to last us until we,
B) COMPLETELY replace ALL fossil fuel use with nuclear, because...
C) ANY costs: financial, environmental, or otherwise; of Either natural gas or nuclear power
are DWARFED by the risks of CO2, even if TENS of THOUSANDS, or EVEN, MILLIONS of people die from these*; it would be WORTH IT, because the only other option is DESTRUCTION OF THE ENTIRE earth
They're NOT saying that, you know why? On account of because THEY don't think that CO2 is an actual problem. Which, as i say; you can tell, because they are NOT advocating actual solutions
TENS OF THOUSANDS, or EVEN MILLION of people die from these* it's important that you see that i am NOT saying that they ARE that dangerous; i am saying that EVEN IF they WERE that dangerous, it would be better than what they say CO2 would do
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