February 13, 2020

What's missing from this diagram?

From "How to Make Your Marriage Gayer/Same-sex spouses feel more satisfied with their partners than heterosexual ones. What’s the secret?" by Stephanie Coontz (NYT)(click to enlarge and clarify):



They don't even consider that the man might do the majority of the dishwashing! Either it's the woman or it's 50/50. It seems to me that dishwashing is a great choice as the chore for the partner who isn't doing the cooking or if one partner is more fastidious about clutter and clean floors and bathrooms so there's a clear and obvious daily task for the other to take responsibility for. Why aren't men doing the majority of the dishwashing in a lot of couples?

That doesn't have anything to do with acting more gay. I question the whole proposition that the article is based on, though I concede that it got my attention and caused me to click. And blog. Please don't make stupid sex jokes in the comments. The gayness theme has to do with the sex roles assigned to/pursued by men and women in our cultural traditions. It's just another way to discuss equality in marriage.

134 comments:

RMc said...

Maybe they're trying to make more people gay, and thus drum up support for Mayor Pete...?

Curious George said...

"Why aren't men doing the majority of the dishwashing in a lot of couples?"

I like washing dishes. I hate drying them though.

tcrosse said...

It's Felix Ungar and Oscar Madison.

Kevin said...

It's just another way to discuss equality in marriage.

Announcer's voice: This equality has been brought to you by those who believe it means everything in the same amount to all people at all times.

Bob Smith said...

My wife cooks me (and a pile of our friends) wonderful meals. Of course I wash the dishes. More properly I load the dishwasher.

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...

I'm deeply skeptical of the initial claim: "Male-female couples whose housework is shared have less strife, as well as greater relationship satisfaction and sexual intimacy". Can't read the article, but I suspect that the sample, the questions, and the interpretation of results are carefully "curated" to arrive at that conclusion.

Lucid-Ideas said...

In my house I A) do most of the cooking (when we cook) and B) do most of the dishwashing. This is because A) she isn't a good cook except Brazilian food and B) she doesn't pretreat some dishes, especially pots and pans, thinking the dishwasher will 'handle' it.

This is easily my biggest pet-peeve. You have to pretreat stuck-on pots and pans. Even 20 minutes with soap and hot water will let the dishwasher handle the rest. If you don't, all you've done is waste an entire cycle so you can get cookware with specs of crap still clinging stubbornly.

I don't care if it's gay or not...wouldn't mind if somebody said it was so long as it got her to pretreat the damn pots and pans. Sheesh.

DKWalser said...

My good friend made his soon-to-be wife that he'd never be asked to do the dishes. (It was the one chore he hated growing up.) Perhaps I should have said that he extracted that promise from his first wife (in a marriage that ended after about 5 years). I don't know if he and his 2nd wife had a similar arrangement, but the marriage has lasted far longer.

Kevin said...

It's just another way to discuss equality in marriage.

How about the way where one person makes the money and the other takes care of the children and home?

Oh right, that's not the kind of equality that passes for equality at the NYT.

Real American said...

My parents made me start doing dishes when I was 9 years old. Why is there no option for making the kids do it?

DanTheMan said...

Why dish washing? Why not lawn care or home repair?

I'll answer my own question: The Althouse Rule.

Kristen said...

The assumption that dishes are the only chore there is... I (wife) enjoy cooking and do nearly all of the dishes because we have some nice cookware that I enjoy using and want to care for. But that doesn't mean my husband does nothing! In fact, he does nearly 100% of the laundry in our house, an equally neverending and thankless chore.

I'm with you, Ann- the assumption that husbands are lazy or useless regarding chores is (ironically) patronizing. Besides, I know far more couples like us (equitably supporting the household) than I know couples who fit their assumptions.

Sebastian said...

"They don't even consider"

It's sad! It's terrible! Why don't they try to be better?

This is getting really old.

Bay Area Guy said...

Please don't make stupid sex jokes in the comments.

Darn.

Kevin said...

At what point do we wake up the the idea that the whole notion of equality outside of how it's described in the Constitution is a sham?

See also: fairness.

If we could do that, we could put down the mad dog called liberalism from its current diseased state and return it to its classical foundations.

Seeing Red said...

I do NOT want hubby to load the dishwasher.

DKWalser said...

I seldom do the dishes. I don't have anything against doing them. But, my wife and adult daughters don't like me to do the dishes. It's not that I don't do a good job. I washed dishes, briefly, on one of my jobs when I was in college. Besides, my mother taught me well. Still, the women in my life prefer that I not do the dishes because part of the job of the dishwasher is to unload the dishwasher. I don't always put things where they expect to find them. I'm NOT saying that is a tactic to get out of doing dishes. I'm just saying I've noticed the correlation and haven't done anything to change the trend line.

Temujin said...

The Times continuing to work on the compelling issues of our time.

Kevin said...

I'm sure Bernie's campaign is working on a policy to ensure equal dishwashing in his next damn bill.

Don't worry. Millonaires and billionaires will pay for it.

Phidippus said...

Lucid-Ideas: Fully agreed, speaking as the sole cook and dishwasher here.

The other peeve I have is refusing to understand how dishwashers work. You can't put cups in bowls in there concave side up; you'll just have a puddle of soapy dirty water in them when the thing is done. There aren't little men in there who come out with buckets and brushes after you close the door-- it's water spraying on the dishes from the bottom that does the work, so you have to let it get to the dishes. Who knew?

Among other things I hope for during Trump's second term is the return to the market of dishwashers that don't take 75 minutes to do a "light" load of dishes. Sheesh.

gahrie said...

Now do yard work....

DKWalser said...

...More properly I load the dishwasher.

Exactly! Have you noticed how many people don't know how to load a dishwasher properly? And, it seems to tick these people off when you do load the dishwasher properly. It must be that they hate to be reminded of their own inadequacies in this regard.

RMc said...

Please don't make stupid sex jokes in the comments.

Dammit, woman, why do you think I come here in the first place...?!

There's one problem with comparing same-sex relationships with opposite-sex ones: sample sizes.

SDaly said...

There is a lot of physical violence in homosexual relationships, but it is swept under the rug because it doesn't fit the male violence against women narrative.

Wa St Blogger said...

gahrie said...
Now do yard work....

or auto repair or plumbing, or killing spiders or any number of tasks that often skew toward one sex. This is an unserious correlation != causation.

CJinPA said...

It seems to me that dishwashing is a great choice as the chore for the partner who isn't doing the cooking

This is what I do. My wife doesn't really like cooking, but she embraced the role and I am grateful. To watch her prepare great family meals week after week, and remembering how it was when she started, leaves me very appreciative. I love telling her to "go sit down" when it's time to clean up.

CJinPA said...

Wonder how same-sex couples compare to childless hetero couples...

J. Farmer said...

Our general rule is the person who doesn’t cook does the dishes. But 90+% of the time, we do it together. Mostly because it gets done more quickly. One washes, the other dries or loads in the dishwasher.

Howard said...

Honestly, I would help out with the housework more but I find myself struggling to learn how to use the washer the dryer the dishwasher. And don't get me started on this new Swiffer technology way too complicated.

tim maguire said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
gilbar said...

So,
They're saying that in 62% percent of households that have discussed separation;
the MAN does the Majority of the dishes????
100% == all the households that have discussed separation
24% == the ones where the Woman does the majority
14% == the ones where they do it equally

100% - 24% - 14 % == 62% left over, thus the ones were the MAN does the majority

Am i MISSING something here? Or, are they REALLY saying that if your bitch shuts up, and does the dishes; you'll have a better chance of staying together?

Someone check my math, please?

Bay Area Guy said...

In year 2 of our marriage, I was home, restless, lazing about one Saturday, while Bay Area Gal was out running errands. For some reason, I got an epiphany to thoroughly clean the small bathroom of the small apartment. I never really cleaned the apartment or any prior apartment.

When Bay Area Gal returned, she nearly freaked out in ecstasy and immediately and vigorously jumped my bones. I didn't complain, but I was confused: "Cleaning the bathroom turns you on?"

Her response -- "No, but your doing something -- without asking me, without my having to tell you -- that makes my life easier, puts me in a good mood. And if I'm in a good mood, you'll be in a good mood."

So, I've been cleaning bathrooms, doing dishes, doing laundry for nearly 25 years. Tends to help make a marriage work....

tim maguire said...

My wife and I have a child-care arrangement where she goes to work late so she can see our daughter off to school in the morning and I go to work early so I can be home in the afternoon when school lets out.

As a practical matter, that means I cook most of the dinners (because I'm home) and she does most of the dishes (because I made dinner). And we haven't talked about divorce yet, so I guess we beat the odds!

gilbar said...

i agree with YOU BAG, but that's NOT what their numbers seem to say

SDaly said...

Although my wife probably does more "cooking," if I am home I am generally the "sous chef" getting the ingredients together, peeling, chopping, dicing, mise en placing, and then washing up at the same time she is cooking. That leaves much less to be done when the meal is over.

DKWalser said...

It seems to me that dishwashing is a great choice as the chore for the partner who isn't doing the cooking....

It might be a great choice. A lot depends on the couple. In college, my mother shared an apartment with a number of other women. Each took their turn with household tasks. One cooked for the week, while another would do the dishes. After one rotation of these weekly chores, my mother called a meeting and insisted that the cook for the week also do the dishes. Why, because she knew how to cook a simple meal without dirtying every pan and mixing bowl in the process. A poor cook can make a lot of extra work for the dishwasher.

GingerBeer said...

I note that these types of articles only ever discuss "women's" chores. Painting, cutting grass, raking leaves, seeding and fertilizing the lawn, shoveling snow, changing oil on vehicles and mowers, moving furniture, hanging light fixtures, unclogging drains etc., never warrant a mention Ladies, want "...greater relationship satisfaction and sexual intimacy?" Pull down, strip, sand, repaint, and rehang the shutters yourself.

Sigivald said...

I do all our dishes for my meals or shared meals.

She does her solo meals and cooking project dishes.

(She dislikes doing dishes, and I don't mind it.

Funny how adults can work something out like that.)

Jim Gust said...

This dull comment thread could sure use some sex jokes, preferably smart ones.

Laslo?

Virgil Hilts said...

Being the one that would bravely kill cockroaches (we don't have very many, but my wife is absolutely repulsed by them) used to score me some romantic points, but now the fact that I have had such near contact with a cockroach (through the paper towel used to extinguish them) turns her completely off.

tim maguire said...

gilbar said...Am i MISSING something here?

My initial reaction was the same as yours--to make that come out to 100%, oin households with severe marital strife, the man must be doing most of the dishes most of the time. But that gets it backwards. It's not that in 24% of households that have discussed divorce, women do most of the dishes, it's that in households where women do most of the dishes, 24% have discussed divorce. It tells you nothing about the houses in which the man does most of the dishes.


buwaya said...

The phenonenon probably works backwards.
Women who are dissatisfied with their husbands are much more likely to perceive or mention his defaults, or to make up defaults. That is, with no change on his part, the wife can claim that x chore is handled equally in year 2 and unequally in year 10.

Phidippus said...

"Same-sex spouses feel more satisfied with their spouses..."

Assuming facts not in evidence, I suspect.

Is that after normalizing for how long "gay marriages" last, on average, compared to real marriages? Just wondering.

Craig said...

That graphic has got to be fake news. I don't believe these numbers at all. Embarrassing for the NYT that they would present this uncritically.

Sigivald said...

gilbar: I think you're misinterpreting the (admittedly not well designed) infographic.

It's only showing results for "woman does dishes" and "mix", in the two columns.

And under those two, by row, it's percentage of "women say relationship in trouble", etc.

It's not saying "in maybe-separating relationships, men do the dishes 62% of the time"; it's "in households where women do the dishes, 24% have discussed that".

There's simply no data PRESENTED for "man does most of the dishwashing".

(Frankly, I think what it tells me is something like "failing relationships tend to include one side refusing to help with household maintenance".)

buwaya said...

And there is the phenomenon of women not wanting their husband to do chore x, as it bugs them greatly that he is not doing it her way. And then resents it that she is doing the chore and he isn't.

Even the best of wives can be very illogical this way.

Bay Area Guy said...

Point of Parliamentary Procedure!

Respectfully request permission for leave to allow one, Laslo Spatula, to make stupid sex jokes to spice up the thread.

gilbar said...

tim maguire said...
gilbar said...Am i MISSING something here?
But that gets it backwards.


hmmm, i suppose you're right.... Maybe... But sure, i'll accept that my math is wrong. The other seems unbelievable

Rick said...

GingerBeer said...
I note that these types of articles only ever discuss "women's" chores. Painting, cutting grass, raking leaves, seeding and fertilizing the lawn, shoveling snow, changing oil on vehicles and mowers, moving furniture, hanging light fixtures, unclogging drains etc., never warrant a mention


Feminism uses the language of equity but an evaluation of its execution - like Title IX - show its real goals are quite different. Revealed preferences are the true measure of a movement, not their words.

J. Farmer said...

Now unloading the dishwasher is an entirely different story. We both loathe that chore and once got into a standoff where the clean dishwasher got treated like a cabinet, taking dishes out on an as needed basis. Realizing that such petty childishness couldn't last, we quickly settled on an alternating schedule.

Amy said...

This entire premise is just stupid. As these comments clearly show, everyone has a strong dislike to some household task or other. Figuring out how to divide the tasks so everyone is happy (or less unhappy) is what makes a marriage work, not choosing one particular task that probably the survey-maker had a strong aversion to and drawing a conclusion based on that. In our house, my husband does almost all the cooking and I clean up. Since getting an Instant Pot, I am doing more of the cooking (love that pot!) and he cleans up.
We have someone come every few weeks and do the cleaning. So neither of us do it. It is wonderful. I do the laundry. He does all kinds of other things. It works.
Again, this whole premise is stupid. Reasonably mature adults figure this stuff out.

Static Ping said...

Studies about gay marriage are basically useless at this point. If the survey finds anything besides positive things, it gets spiked, ignored, and/or the authors get canceled. The only possible exception is when it helps the narrative of either creating several large new government bureaucracies or crapping all over the deplorables.

This goes quadruple for anything involving The New York Times.

Bay Area Guy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bay Area Guy said...

This is a discussion of gay dishwashing protocols?

Not that there's anything wrong with that......

Fernandistein said...

"What’s the secret?"

I guess we'll never know...

J. Farmer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Wince said...

It isn't which partner is doing the cooking and dishwashing that causes the antagonism.

It's what the other partner is doing while the other is cooking and dishwashing.

Ken B said...

“ we quickly settled on an alternating schedule.”
Hey! No sex jokes!

Achilles said...

I do most of the dish washing.

She cooks for the kids.

Bob Boyd said...

Fun Fact: Mike Bloomberg has to stand on a box to do the dishes.

FullMoon said...

Nothing meaningful to say but will comment anyway.

Had a contract with property management company. Big emergency, family with eight kids needed new dishwasher installed immediately. 8 kids? Why do they need a dishwasher at all?

When a pre-teen, our family moved into home with a dishwasher, my father put liquid dishwashing soap in it and naturally foamed the entire kitchen. He determined it was junk and we would never use it.

Friends father claimed to like washing dishes in the sink because it cleaned under his fingernails and cuticles. I figured it was a lie because his wife was lazy. He was right, it will get your hands clean.

Oh, and, run hot water in sink before filling dishwasher so at least first cycle will be with hot water.

Barry Dauphin said...

What's missing from the diagram How Dishes Predict Discord?

Percentage of men who say that...

rhhardin said...

I always wash the dish and rinse out the cup.

rhhardin said...

One trick is always use a microwave-safe dish. No cooking utensil.

Rick said...

Nothing meaningful to say but will comment anyway.

If there can only be one tenet of blog commenting that's it.

Rick said...

What's missing from the diagram How Dishes Predict Discord? Percentage of men who say that...

It never even occurred to them.

FullMoon said...

Now unloading the dishwasher is an entirely different story. We both loathe that chore ..

C'mon, man, it's the silverware, right? Why are they unable to separate the silverware when putting in the D.W.?

When it is not sorted, I just take it all out and toss it into the drawer and let her sort it out later, 'cause I am petty like that.




Ken B said...

Instant Pot. Reduces clean up.

Bob Boyd said...

Not sure it's the dishwashing, it's probably the type of people in the relationship to begin with.
People who see something that needs doing and just do it vs people who worry they're doing more than their fair share.

PoNyman said...

Before my wife and I got married we had multiple conversations on how household chores would be organized and shared between us with the expectation that things could change. Surprisingly, after 18 years they've remained largely the same. My biggest ask before, and I remain staunchly committed to this, is that I do the dishes and she thinks of what to eat. I'll cook AND do the dishes as long as I don't have to think of what to eat.

Phidippus said...

FullMoon: "When it is not sorted, I just take it all out and toss it into the drawer and let her sort it out later, 'cause I am petty like that."

Harsh! But I like it ;-)

Unknown said...

I find it funny when I read people referring to loading the dishwasher as "doing the dishes". I do all of the cooking in my house and about half the washing up. People complaining about having to load and unload the flippin' dishwasher just seems goofy to me...

Gospace said...

When we first married, and out apartment didn't have a dishwasher, she did the dishes. She knew that would happen long before we married. Well, maybe not long before - we met in January got married in August.

With a dishwasher? Whoever is closest when a full load is in it.

It's only been 41 years now.

Jeff Weimer said...

Speaking for us, we don't particularly make dishes an issue, although we are at times both a bit lazy about it.

Beasts of England said...

I’ve never used the dishwasher in my (single) life. I hand wash everything, so I’ll know it’s perfectly clean. You should see the job I do polishing wine stems!! Separate towels for those, of course. Not that I’m OCD or anything... :)

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...

J.Farmer: Now unloading the dishwasher is an entirely different story. We both loathe that chore and once got into a standoff where the clean dishwasher got treated like a cabinet, taking dishes out on an as needed basis. Realizing that such petty childishness couldn't last, we quickly settled on an alternating schedule.

There was a writer (forget who) for the Brit papers who so loathed that chore that he had two dishwashers installed. That way he could use each alternately as cabinet/dishwasher. Dishes come out of the "cabinet", get used, and then get put in the dishwasher, which thus becomes the "cabinet", and so on...No intermediate unloading chore!

He said his friends thought he was crazy, but it I don't see an problem with the system.

Yancey Ward said...

Wow, dishwashing must be the only chore there is to do in a married household.

FullMoon said...

Know what's annoying? Opening dishwasher to put in a dirty plate and finding it full of clean dishes nobody bothered to put away.

Fuck it, put the dirty plate in, wash 'em all again. Twice as clean..

Bay Area Guy said...

The best rule is the simplest. Someone cooks and the other cleans. And mix it up a bit, so you do both.

Do we really need the NYT to explicate this?

mikeski said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mikeski said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mikeski said...

Have you noticed how many people don't know how to load a dishwasher properly?

My assumption is that some/many people have issues with spatial relationships. For the last 30 years, I have been married to a lovely, talented, otherwise capable woman who is simply unable to load a dishwasher, pack a car trunk, or parallel park a vehicle.

Meade said...

Bay Area Guy is on the right track. Years ago I read about a study proving that wives find it to be a libido killer to witness their husband doing what was once commonly referred to as “woman’s work.” So I adopted the habit of vacuuming, laundering and dishwashing whenever the wife is away. When she’s home, I simply strap on my tool belt looking for things to fix or I’ll swagger around the yard with a spade or a pruning saw. I’ll even fire up the grill just for theater, ribeye or not. I’m not saying it’s always a sure thing but it’s pretty close. Almost as good as when I switched to Carter Hall pipe tobacco.

FullMoon said...

rhhardin said...

I always wash the dish and rinse out the cup.

2/13/20, 12:02 PM
Blogger rhhardin said...

One trick is always use a microwave-safe dish. No cooking utensil.


Labor intensive. Single neighbor buys Lean Cuisine (and similar)on sale. Microwave, eat, throw container away.

Howard said...

Blogger GingerBeer said...

I note that these types of articles only ever discuss "women's" chores.


Ginger: that's because men are supposed to shut up and do your job without complaint. If he don't like it or thinks it isn't fair, he can get divorced and buy a dog.

J. Farmer said...

@Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard:

He said his friends thought he was crazy, but it I don't see an problem with the system.

We actually have two dishwashers but I never thought of that system. Hmmmmm.

Morkoth4682 said...

Ha! Suckers... we don't have that problem because we make the 16 year old do the dishes... ZING!

FullMoon said...

Meade said...

Bay Area Guy is on the right track. Years ago I read about a study proving that wives find it to be a libido killer to witness their husband doing what was once commonly referred to as “woman’s work.” So I adopted the habit of vacuuming, laundering and dishwashing whenever the wife is away. When she’s home, I simply strap on my tool belt looking for things to fix or I’ll swagger around the yard with a spade or a pruning saw. I’ll even fire up the grill just for theater, ribeye or not. I’m not saying it’s always a sure thing but it’s pretty close. Almost as good as when I switched to Carter Hall pipe tobacco.



My advice to kids, which worked pretty good for me, always be seen doing some chore when parents come home from work. Shut off TV, start vacuuming or sweeping or putting stuff away.

J. Farmer said...

Nothing meaningful to say but will comment anyway.

Make it up on volume.

Bay Area Guy said...

@Full Moon,

My advice to kids, which worked pretty good for me, always be seen doing some chore when parents come home from work. Shut off TV, start vacuuming or sweeping or putting stuff away.

Outstanding!

I have an analog, which my best friend taught me in my 20s. At the office, always walk around with a file in your hand, whether to the bathroom, to the water cooler, the kitchen, the boss' office. It makes it seem like you are doing something.

Michael K said...

I was divorced and single for 25 years. I had an on and off relationship with a woman who did not do house chores. She would move in and move out every few years. I did all the cooking and shopping. Cleaning lady did most of the laundry.

Five years ago, my wife and I got remarried. She hates it when I say I did all that stuff for 25 years so I try to keep my mouth shut.

Matt said...

Oh, gosh. I don't know. Could it be because they are BOTH THE SAME? Could it possibly be that there are differences between men and women and that there might be challenges because of these differences? Could it be that couples that can make offspring have more financial challenges than those who can't? Could it be that whatever research into the area that is done has to show that the unnatural coupling is superior to the natural one or else the researchers will be professionally destroyed?

Gosh. WHAT COULD THE REASONS BE?!?!?!

Tomcc said...

While I was married, my wife did the majority of the cooking and I the dishes, i.e. loading the dishwasher. When I cooked, she cleaned. Over the years, I've become a crank about loading the dishwasher in the most efficient way possible; that way you don't run it when only half full. Also, the tines of the forks should be pointing up, the spoons should be alternated up/down (never put two spoons together!), etc.
What was the question, again?

Yancey Ward said...

Meade wears his "Mr. Plow" jacket to bed.

J. Farmer said...

@Matt:

Could it be that whatever research into the area that is done has to show that the unnatural coupling is superior to the natural one or else the researchers will be professionally destroyed?

I take your points, but this is the appeal to nature fallacy. After all, how natural is monogamy? But it’s a good idea. Conversely, it’s perfect natural for a 12 year old to get pregnant, but how good of an idea is it?

J. Farmer said...

Meade wears his "Mr. Plow" jacket to bed.

I’ll take “Images I Want Out of My Head” for a thousand, Alex.

traditionalguy said...

Some people want a kitchen ready for inspection at all times. Some just clean it up at regular intervals. As for me, just put the dirty dishes in the Dishwasher and not the sink. NB: this requires emptying it every AM. Now I am getting angry. ( Just kidding)

Rabel said...

"What’s striking, says the lead author of the study, Michael Garcia, is that earlier research had concluded that women in general were likely to report the most relationship distress."

Could it be that women just bitch and complain more than men and this showed up in the numbers? Maybe? Possibly?

FullMoon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
nob490 said...

My advice to guys getting married:

If your wife goes out for the day, no matter if you re-pave the driveway, do the laundry, file your taxes while she's out, do NOT be just sitting there when she walks in.

If you do nothing all day, when you hear her coming, stand up and look like you are doing something productive.

And for Pete's sake, do your share.

Has worked for me for 30 years.

ALP said...

I am the messier and female half of our hetero relationship - so yeah, I eye roll pretty hard when people assume I'm the one to get after my partner about cleaning. So boring and tedious. That man can see dirt invisible to most mortals - very annoying.

Same sex couples are not exempt from having to deal with opposites. This is a lot like the rule that if you write about the difference between men and women, females always have an edge. In the same manner, SS couples have an "edge" over hetero.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

My wife does the dishes and I change the oil and brake pads, change light bulbs, build bookcases, whack weeds, prune trees, etc., etc. The scheme is more or less based on stereotypical gender roles, and we're both pretty happy with it.

I do the dishes once in a while if she seems busy with other stuff, but I consider it above and beyond. She never changes the brake pads.

EdwdLny said...

Well, I bought and installed the magic box that devours soiled dishes and replaces them with cleaned same. I'm not allowed to do laundry, something about fragile lingerie not being mixed in with "regular " stuff. But then the wife has never been tasked with replacing ball joints, exhaust ,or soiled oil and filters in our vehicles. Nor would I ever consider doing so. My wife, by the way, is a saint. If for no reason other than putting up with my shenanigans and foibles. And for which I am blessed every single day.

Amadeus 48 said...

Well, nostalgia for the Soviet Union didn’t do it, so now they are peddling gay relationships as the answer. Hint to the the NYT readership: they don’t know what they are talking about, and they are probably doing it wrong.

This really is hilarious. Trump obviously has his minions editing the NYT.

David-2 said...

I do the dishes because no matter how many times I give her an example she refuses to load the dishwasher the right way. Like, by now, she must be doing it on purpose.

And she dusts the place daily, even though, you know, what the hell is the problem with having some dust around?

Sigh.

Turns out we've been very compatible for 40+ years, regardless.

Or maybe it's just because she depends on me to kill the spiders and take the stinkbugs outside.

n.n said...

While transgender complicates the situation, best practices apply to both couples and couplets. With accommodation for perceptions of masculine and feminine gender with the former, and however reconciliation is realized with the latter.

Michael K said...

Could it be that women just bitch and complain more than men and this showed up in the numbers? Maybe? Possibly?

Doctors (maybe just male doctors) have talked about this for years. A GP I knew called us about a patient one time. This guy had driven his wife to the doctor appointment. As she was getting ready to leave she told the doc that her husband wasn't feeling well and could he take a look at him, too? He had a perforated ulcer and we took him to surgery that afternoon. A few more hours and it would have been fatal. Painful as hell.

rcocean said...

I don't mind sharing the dish-washing or the cooking. However, I have refused to vacuum, dust, clean counters, make beds, etc. I do most of the yard work, heavy lifting, and car maintenance.

My wife and I have different standards of cleanliness inside the house. Like most men, I don't give a rip.

FullMoon said...

"I have an analog, which my best friend taught me in my 20s. At the office, always walk around with a file in your hand, whether to the bathroom, to the water cooler, the kitchen, the boss' office. It makes it seem like you are doing something."

Heard the same thing from a neighbor who is in the Air Force. Other good advice, always look busy for the first thirty days.

Ralph L said...

We kids took turns loading the dishwasher, and since the first one my parents had was a 50's portable, we were trained to remove all food from the dishes first. I'd like to test my Kitchenaid to see how well it cleans, but I still can't put a dirty dish in it.

My dad was never a coffee drinker, but when he was a junior naval officer, he discovered that if he had a cup of coffee in front of him when sitting in the ward room, he'd be left alone. Without it, someone would find him something else to do.

jeremyabrams said...

I do all the dishwashing, and toilet cleaning. No wife of mine is going to do scutwork like that. Those are men's jobs.

Howard said...

Uh Matt, homo rooting is completely natural. They're doing exactly what the good Lord made them do. Why do you hate G_d?

Howard said...

A Marine corps recruit platoon is segregated based on height all the short guys are in first squad and all the tall guys are in the 4th squad. In my platoon the first squad cleaned the toilets, second and third squad cleaned the squad Bay. 4th squad just walked around outside and picked up random pieces of non-existent trash. Elevation has its privileges.

Jim at said...

I do all the cooking, dish washing, house cleaning and pretty much every domestic task. Inside and out.

Why? Because me wife is awful at it, and she knows it.

Or maybe she's pulling a 'Ray Barone' on me all these years.

DavidD said...

OK, so what about a gay couple where one of the partners does all the dishes—or all the housework?

Does that make the relationship less gay?

Mary E. Glynn said...

DavidD said...

OK, so what about a gay couple where one of the partners does all the dishes—or all the housework?

Does that make the relationship less gay?
-----------------

That' the traditional gay relationship, really...

FleetUSA said...

I do the dishes 90% of time. Fast and clean finish unlike a lot of other things in life.

Iman said...

Happy wife, happy life...

CWJ said...

My wife is a fantastic cook. Me? Not so much. Doing 100% of the pickup cleanup put away afterwards is the least I can do in return.

madAsHell said...

It’s all doughnuts!

They some uncircumcised bar charts! Tits!

Phidippus said...

David-2: "Or maybe it's just because she depends on me to kill the spiders and take the stinkbugs outside."

Well, I take the damn stinkbugs outside instead of killing them too, but that's only because they stink.

I have tried to convince my wife that the odd spider we find in the house from time to time is our little friend, eats mosquitoes, doesn't spread diseases or make a mess, etc, but to little avail. So I take them outside.

No quarter for any other interlopers, though. Ants, crickets, the rest, straight out. Chemicals, sticky traps, the vacuum cleaner, whatever it takes. We have standards in this place.

Marcus said...

My comment got lost. Not willing to repeat it because with my luck it will appear twice.
I'm not married. I pick up after myself, load and unload the dishwasher, and do my own laundry. I pay a girl to come twice a month to deep clean and iron all my shirts. Happy.

THEOLDMAN

Michael K said...

I have tried to convince my wife that the odd spider we find in the house from time to time is our little friend, eats mosquitoes, doesn't spread diseases or make a mess, etc, but to little avail. So I take them outside.

We have a wolf spider in the house. My wife has named him. Or her. They don't spin webs and eat other insects so he/she is OK.

JML said...

Our general rule is the cook does not do the dishes. I do most of the cooking because I don't like to do dishes and I am a better cook than my wife. But if she cooks, I do them. The kids have to help with the dishes, unless of course, they cooked.

stevew said...

Mrs. stevew made the bed today, mostly because I left the house for my flight to EWR before she was awake and out of the bed.

I shoveled the snow left on the driveway in front of the garage where the plow guy can't get to when I got back from NJ. Also cleared the brick walkway to the side door, and cleaned out in front of the mail box.

Mrs. stevew reheated the leftovers for dinner, I cleaned up the kitchen after dinner, barely made it through one song on my ipod.

Mrs. stevew pays the bills, she is minister of finance and AP. I work to fill the treasury.

Neither of us is gay but we seem to have a pretty good system for divvying up the work. We are married 40 years this August and remain happily so.

richlb said...

I do 90% of the dishwashing and I'm a man. It's the deal I have with my wife - she cooks (wonderfully I might add) and I clean.

Renee said...

Kids do the dishes.

AllenS said...

One thing that really bugged me when I was a yout, and lived at home, was the fact that I had to help my sister wash and dry the dishes every evening. Not once did my sister ever come out of the house, and have to help me shovel snow off of the driveway and the sidewalk, and in the summer, push the lawnmower around. Not fair. I'm 73 years old, and it still pisses me off.

Bart Hall said...

I certainly do most of the washing up in our home, and we do not have a dishwasher, so it's all by hand, which I much prefer, because as a farmer it's the best way to ensure that my hands are thoroughly clean at the end of the day.

When we raised cattle and pigs, such guaranteed cleanliness was essential in case at night I had to pull a calf or help a sow to farrow her piglets. Never a single case of endometriosis or sepsis during all those years, and that included two uterine prolapses I repaired myself to mama could feed the babies for two months before she headed off to Sausage City.

Required field must not be blank said...
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Required field must not be blank said...

It's not about the chore at all!

It's about the kind of personality that tries to dodge micro jobs such as taking the bin out and so on --- we all know annoying people who argue the toss for twice as long as it takes to get the job done with the idea that if they make it difficult to ask them, they will not be required to pull their weight.

That kind of behavior will repeat many times over, with everything they do, and that is what makes these people difficult to be friends with.

How to fix? Don't let your kids skip or argue chores, teach them to get things done without delay and resentment. That way you raise an adult who does not regard minor chores as an opportunity to play stupid one-up-personship games.

Gretchen said...

If one of the partners is a stay at home spouse they should do the majority of the dishwashing.

How about yard work, changing lightbulbs, snow shoveling? These polls always focus on what is traditionally considered women's work, and don't ever take into account some couples are happy dividing the work along gender lines, some aren't.

dbp said...

We can determine what percentage men do most of the dish washing by just subtracting the two values give from 100.

It looks like bad news on the fights becoming physical front: In those marriages, men do the most of the dish washing 85% of the time.

California Snow said...

Do they ever talk about who is fixing the car, mowing the lawn, fixing the drywall holes, pulling weeds, cutting back overgrown bushes, getting stuff from the attic crawlspace, shoveling snow, killing spiders, unclogging toilets.....