Althouse: "The Holy Spirit is helping you help me."

January 7, 2020

"The Holy Spirit is helping you help me."

Overheard in a café.

94 comments:

walter said...: Panhandler?; 1/7/20, 8:56 AM
NCMoss said...: Mayor Pete asking for donations to his campaign?; 1/7/20, 8:59 AM
J. Farmer said...: Merry Christmas to the Orthodox; 1/7/20, 9:00 AM
Ann Althouse said...: 2 people having a conversation that I'm not eavesdropping on. That line just jumped out, and I find it very interesting. Is it an expression of gratitude? A con in midstream? I don't know.; 1/7/20, 9:01 AM
Kansas Scout said...: Or in spite of our cynical times, a very real expression of faith. Yes, its still out here.; 1/7/20, 9:03 AM
rehajm said...: Overheard in a café: ya gotta aim at the beak!

That one will be oft repeated in our household, in a variety of contexts...; 1/7/20, 9:13 AM
Wince said...: I am out here for you. You don't know what it's like to be ME out here for YOU. It is an up-at-dawn, pride-swallowing siege that I will never fully tell you about, ok?

God... Help me help you. Help me help you...; 1/7/20, 9:15 AM
hombre said...: Nothing out of the ordinary if between two people with Christian worldviews. If the helper/listener is not Christian, it’s evangelizing .; 1/7/20, 9:17 AM
Ann Althouse said...: Is it good Christianity to try to influence another Christian using a line like that?; 1/7/20, 9:19 AM
MAJMike said...: Truth.; 1/7/20, 9:21 AM
Ann Althouse said...: I think it's good Christianity if the meaning is something like: You have helped me, and that makes me see God in you. I believe God is working through you. I see you as blessed.

I think it's kind of bad if the meaning is: I want you to do something for me and to the extent that you decide to do what I want, it will be because God is working through you. And if you do something else, you will be turning away from God.

So... could be good or bad or anywhere in between.; 1/7/20, 9:22 AM
gspencer said...: A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.

Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."

The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."

So the rowboat went on.

Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."

To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

So the motorboat went on.

Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."

To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"

To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

https://truthbook.com/stories/funny-god/the-drowning-man; 1/7/20, 9:26 AM
Donn said...: "I believe God is working through you" is likely what the person meant.; 1/7/20, 9:34 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: I learned that I'm probably a functional atheist or a Christian robot. but not from that.
No denying it. Face the truth.; 1/7/20, 9:44 AM
Roughcoat said...: Knock it off, Althouse.; 1/7/20, 9:46 AM
mccullough said...: Sounds like a Catholic pick up line.; 1/7/20, 9:46 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."

Revelations 3.. something; 1/7/20, 9:47 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Mark 8:36
"What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? "; 1/7/20, 9:49 AM
CJinPA said...: "The Holy Spirit is helping you help me."

That's such a fabulous line to overhear. So much potential backstory. Probably mundane, but the possibilities are interesting.; 1/7/20, 9:55 AM
Wince said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/7/20, 10:08 AM
traditionalguy said...: Of course the Holy Spirit (a/k/a the Spirit of Truth) in you has to judge the situation. Don’t over think it.; 1/7/20, 10:08 AM
Wince said...: Althouse said...
I think it's kind of bad if the meaning is: I want you to do something for me and to the extent that you decide to do what I want, it will be because God is working through you. And if you do something else, you will be turning away from God.

Oh, dear. Back to Trump's Ukraine call again?

With Althouse as the "Whistleblower"?

At least she heard it first hand.; 1/7/20, 10:09 AM
jnseward said...: Giving thanks, not only to the person helping, but to God as well.; 1/7/20, 10:11 AM
Roughcoat said...: Tolkien's work was profoundly influenced by Lewis.

Wrong. It's the other way around. C.S. Lewis was influenced by Tolkien. It was Tolkien who convinced Lewis to convert to Catholicism. Tolkien was a cradle Catholic. Lewis tells the story: one day he and Tolkien went out for a walk around a nearby lake. They were talking religion. Lewis wrote that he doesn't know quite what happened: only that, at the beginning of their stroll, he was an Anglican; but when they returned he was a convinced Catholic. It was a Pauline event. From that small beginning he went on to become one of the 20th century's greatest Catholic apologists. Hard to believe you don't know the story behind Lewis's conversion.; 1/7/20, 10:17 AM
Owen said...: We need the actual tape. Too easy to misconstrue this transcript.; 1/7/20, 10:18 AM
Narr said...: It's a polite way for the pious to deny the helper any real human agency. Kind of like blaming demonic possession for plain human evil, only in reverse.

Narr
I rewatched RG at GG: The pedo line was one of the best!; 1/7/20, 10:19 AM
Charlie Eklund said...: Due to a very painful but thankfully non-life threatening medical condition, I am currently acting as a caregiver for my 82 year old mom while we wait for the surgical procedure that will give her relief. Her appointmen with the neurosurgeon is set for the first week of February so we’re still far from being out of the woods. I have no doubt at all that the the Holy Spirit is helping me to help her. I am certain that I could not do this with the type of happy heart and level of selflessness a caregiver needs to possess without divine assistance, and I am very thankful for it.; 1/7/20, 10:23 AM
AZ Bob said...: Jim Bakker?; 1/7/20, 10:24 AM
Roughcoat said...: Basically, Tolkien was Lewis's spiritual mentor. It's true that they discussed their works-in-progress and commented back and forth on them, and that both were influenced by this process of give-and-take. But Tolkien was the senior partner, as it were, in the relationship.; 1/7/20, 10:25 AM
joshbraid said...: "So... could be good or bad or anywhere in between."

Exactly. Trying to interpret a set of words without context is simply useless and baseless; why bother? What a strange post.; 1/7/20, 10:27 AM
J. Farmer said...: Off topic: I just saw the footage of Harvey Weinstein arriving to court. Is that walker real? He looked like he'd never used it before.; 1/7/20, 10:31 AM
traditionalguy said...: Harvey turns out to have a serious balance problem. In fact he was only trying to help the young starlets with their coats when he lost balance and fell upon them causing their mistaken belief that he attacked them. What a misunderstood grand fatherly guy.; 1/7/20, 10:38 AM
Owen said...: J. Farmer: “Is that walker real?” The walker is real. Harvey’s relationship to it is the tricky bit. What is its function in this scene: seriously to prop him upright after (we are told) back surgery; or purely as a prop to create sympathy or deference for this suffering human? My question is serious: Harvey has been creating powerful works of pure imagination for decades. Why would he not bring all his skill and power to bear here, in his greatest performance ever?; 1/7/20, 10:42 AM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: The Holy Spirit is helping you help me.

...the holy dove was moving too...; 1/7/20, 10:45 AM
Inga said...: “2 people having a conversation that I'm not eavesdropping on. That line just jumped out, and I find it very interesting. Is it an expression of gratitude? A con in midstream? I don't know.“

They are evangelical/fundamentalist buzzwords. The Holy Spirit plays a huge roll in Pentecostal and born again belief systems. It’s very common to hear this among evangelicals of Pentecostal leanings. Always makes me shutter a little after having grown up in such a religion.; 1/7/20, 10:49 AM
Roughcoat said...: I love the Holy Spirit. I love it more than Jesus or God. The mystery appeals to me. Tolkien's "Flame Imperishable" that Morgoth sought but could not find. When I pray, it's to the Holy Spirit. I talked to my priest about this and he said it was okay. They're all the same anyway: all One.; 1/7/20, 10:53 AM
admin said...: please i want to buy your blog for $5000 because its rank high and you have good traffic. mail me on mustaphanurudeen55@gmail.com; 1/7/20, 10:54 AM
Inga said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/7/20, 10:55 AM
Inga said...: Charismatic Catholics even speak in tongues. I always thought they should only know what the early fundies thought about the Catholic religion.; 1/7/20, 10:58 AM
Narr said...: Well, I was conservator (four years) for my Oma, who lived to be 94. This was basically every-other-day visits (thank goodness she lived nearby and had some friends) and complete responsibility for her overall wellbeing. And she was already senile, messy, and cranky when I was appointed.

Later, my wife had to perform essentially the same function for her elderly mother, for about three years.

Most recently my mother died at the age of 91. She had been cared for by my younger brothers until one of them died and the last, youngest, did 90% of the caregiving (I was 10%, but then I was working and he didn't need to, and lived there too).

So believe or disbelieve, but family comes first, and except for hospitalizations and rehab all of these old ladies lived in their homes until the very end.

Narr
Weinstein's faking of course; 1/7/20, 10:58 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Owen:

My question is serious: Harvey has been creating powerful works of pure imagination for decades. Why would he not bring all his skill and power to bear here, in his greatest performance ever?

Yeah, but I think he needed a few more minutes with the prop department guy. That was the most awkward use of a walker I've ever seen.; 1/7/20, 11:00 AM
Inga said...: “Is it good Christianity to try to influence another Christian using a line like that?”

It happens all the time in the born again belief system hierarchy. The elders keep the congregants in control by asserting their power, given to them by the Holy Spirit. If the congregants refuse to comply, they are disfellowshipped.; 1/7/20, 11:00 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: "It was Tolkien who convinced Lewis to convert to Catholicism.'

Roughcoat, I don't believe Lewis ever converted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure Lewis remained a high church Anglican (back before the Anglican Church became a silly SJW outfit).; 1/7/20, 11:01 AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: The Holy Spirit plays a big part in the New Testament. Paul is continually exhorting his fellow believers to “be filled with the Holy Spirit” and rejoice. He also warns against pursuits that “dissipate the Holy Spirit” such as drunkenness and sorcery. Not to neglect Jesus saying that after His ascension to heaven God would send the Holy Spirit to comfort and guide the faithful. Any Believer who accepts the Bible as the Word of God could have been the speaker Althouse overheard, or a clever con. Both, and more, are possible from the snippet reported.; 1/7/20, 11:14 AM
Owen said...: Narr: your story of caring for family members is IMHO totally relevant. It is very much how the spirit works through us. Some call that fiction but what does "fiction" mean? We live so much of our lives with and through intangibles --feelings, thoughts, dreams, choices-- and those are no more (nor less) fictional than what we call the spirit. Formally and more strictly known as the Holy Spirit. I am no theologian but that's my take. You were doing God's work. How else does He get anything done around here, except through us?; 1/7/20, 11:26 AM
whitney said...: I love it when atheists who hold Christianity in contempt explain what is a good Christian. So inspiring!; 1/7/20, 11:28 AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: WTF Inga? That’s never happened in any church I’ve been in. One does not “obtain” power from the Holy Spirit that can be used to “control” other church members. Wow. What cult did you learn that from? I’d like to make sure I don’t accidentally go to your “church” if that’s what you believe.; 1/7/20, 11:31 AM
MadisonMan said...: @Charlie, I hope everything goes well for you (and your Mom!)

Also -- $5000 doesn't seem like enough to buy this blog. I mean, that's less than $400/year! Althouse, hold out for $5000000 at least!; 1/7/20, 11:33 AM
narayanan said...: PEOPLE BEFORE PRINCIPLES >>> IS a line FROM Brothers in Arms where Miles Vorkosigan and Duv Galeni talk about Aral Vorkosigan who has been instrumental in Duv's career.; 1/7/20, 11:37 AM
Robert Cook said...: "Off topic: I just saw the footage of Harvey Weinstein arriving to court. Is that walker real? He looked like he'd never used it before."

Allegedly, Weinstein was in a car accident that caused him back pain, so the walker is "necessary" for him to walk. I say it's a prop he hopes will make him look old and enfeebled, obviously no possible rapist threat to the ball-busting female stars who profited by the careers he created for them, and (or) to give the jurors great pause before sending this wretched old wreck to the harsh environment of prison.

A co-worker of mine saw him just yesterday morning getting out of his big black car and entering a building a couple of blocks away on Broadway. She assumed it was his lawyer's office.; 1/7/20, 11:39 AM
Inga said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/7/20, 12:00 PM
Inga said...: WTF Inga? That’s never happened in any church I’ve been in. One does not “obtain” power from the Holy Spirit that can be used to “control” other church members. Wow. What cult did you learn that from? I’d like to make sure I don’t accidentally go to your “church” if that’s what you believe.”

Then you have never been a member of any of the Assemblies of God churches.; 1/7/20, 12:01 PM
JohnAnnArbor said...: Response: "Dude, if you can only muster one-third of the Trinity, I'm gonna pass."; 1/7/20, 12:03 PM
Inga said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/7/20, 12:14 PM
Inga said...: The members of most evangelical/ fundie belief systems embrace the concept of being given power to do many things through Christ, power through the Holy Spirit. If you aren’t aware of this you haven’t been a member of such belief systems. It’s a major doctrine in the born again belief system. In the case of elders, they will cite the authority given to them by the Holy Spirit when shepherding the flock.; 1/7/20, 12:15 PM
readering said...: Not only did CSL not convert to RC, but as an Ulsterman he was mildly bigoted against Papism, even after converting to Christianity. But he did not advocate for any sect (although he believed everyone should worship as part of one). Hence the focus of his most famous book, Mere Christianity.; 1/7/20, 12:18 PM
Fr. Denis Lemieux said...: Roughcoat - sorry, but with all respect, you have your facts wrong on C.S. Lewis. Tolkien and (I believe) Owen Barfield were influential in persuading him to become a believing Christian, but he remained a faithful Anglican all his life. As someone else commented, this was when the Anglican Church was still well within the field of orthodox Christianity.; 1/7/20, 12:19 PM
readering said...: Because Mere Christianity focused on aspects common to all sects, Catholics cherish it as much as Protestants.; 1/7/20, 12:20 PM
readering said...: He widened his focus to all religions in his most interesting work of apologetics, The Abolition of Man.; 1/7/20, 12:22 PM
Earnest Prole said...: You got to help me
I can't do it all by myself
You got to help me, baby
I can't do it all by myself
You know if you don't help me darling
I'll have to find myself somebody else

I may have to wash
I may have to sew
I may have to cook
I might mop the floor
But you help me babe
You know if you don't help me darling
I'll find myself somebody else

When I walk, walk with me
When I talk, you talk to me
Oh baby, I can't do it all by myself
You know if you don't help me darling
I'll have to find myself somebody else
Help me, help me darlin'

Bring my nightshirt
Put on your morning gown
Bring my nightshirt
Put on your morning gown
Darlin I know we stripped bare
But I don't feel like lying down; 1/7/20, 12:23 PM
readering said...: Don't make fun of people using a walker. I know too many elderly too vain to use a walker or cane when they should. Falls are a terrible contributor to death and serious injury in the over 65 set.; 1/7/20, 12:27 PM
Mike Petrik said...: @exiledonmainstreet: You are correct. Lewis's return to Christianity was very much influenced by Tolkien, but Lewis was never formally received into the Catholic Church. Many who have studied Lewis remain puzzled as to why he never took that step insomuch his beliefs seem to be be fully in accord with Catholicism, and some were actually uncomfortable fits for Anglicanism. Some speculate it was chiefly a matter of aesthetic comfort with his cradle faith. Others point out that he seemed to believe that the separation between Anglicanism and Catholicism was theologically unimportant and of no moment from a salvific standpoint, which arguably is at tension with dogmatic Catholicism, but only arguably.; 1/7/20, 12:28 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: well, Double A, at least it wasnt this :-)

"Fire" -- Crazy World of Arthur Brown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLG1ys2CGcI; 1/7/20, 12:58 PM
Mark said...: Most likely meaning is God working in and through the other person.

It is a testimony about grace.; 1/7/20, 1:00 PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: I’ve heard of God working through people via the power of His spirit. Never heard of a mortal “acquiring” said power and wielding it to disfellowship another. Not in my Bible.; 1/7/20, 1:03 PM
Paddy O said...: "I think it's good Christianity if the meaning is something like: You have helped me, and that makes me see God in you. I believe God is working through you. I see you as blessed.

I think it's kind of bad if the meaning is: I want you to do something for me and to the extent that you decide to do what I want, it will be because God is working through you. And if you do something else, you will be turning away from God.

So... could be good or bad or anywhere in between."

I was going to write something like this, but read it so am just agreeing. Without more context it is hard to know. It could be a very beautiful moment of encouragement. I've said things like this when someone does or says something that is genuinely, deeply meaningful to me, as a way of encouraging them in their role. Sometimes it takes stretching to reach out to another person. A very pastoral or vulnerable moment in a public place is wonderful.

But, I've also heard it used in manipulative ways, so it could be anything.; 1/7/20, 1:16 PM
CStanley said...: C S Lewis was a theist until Tolkein influenced his conversion to orthodox Christianity (but not Roman Catholicism.) The best part of the story is the poem Tolkien penned for his friend, Mythopoeia, as detailed here; 1/7/20, 1:34 PM
traditionalguy said...: The supernatural aspect of Christianity is the problem. The Holy Spirit's presence seems to scare some leaders into bringing in even more legalism. The Pentecostals and the Catholics both are bad to do this. So Inga may have met legalists that want to make new laws to keep the old laws that were made to keep the oldest laws.They fear settling for Love thy Neighbor.

The Trinity is not really much accepted by many because scripture says the "Spirit of Holiness" is more than a powerful force. He is called the third person of God, like the man Jesus, who was begotten and not made Son of God, is called the second person of God and the Way to The Father God. Most Religions want to stop at a monotheistic God and say the Trinity is too hard to understand.

But without the Spirit's supernatural acts, God would not be of much value to us until we die.; 1/7/20, 1:51 PM
Mark said...: The Holy Spirit's presence seems to scare some leaders into bringing in even more legalism. The Pentecostals and the Catholics both are bad to do this.

Huh???; 1/7/20, 1:55 PM
Narr said...: Thanks for the kind words, everyone. I feel like the Bourgeois Gentilhomme, proud to learn I've been speaking Prose all my life!

I can't speak for the others involved in the eldercare crisis as it happened in our foxhole, but none of the heavy stuff others have been saying here was on my mind.

An earlier NPR news bulleshitin reported 50+ mourners trampled to death in a stampede at the martyr's wake. History repeats. No confirmation yet that the Dims want to make it another GFP.

Narr
Islam as social pathology?; 1/7/20, 2:32 PM
Narr said...: GFP = Grounds for 'Peachment.

Narr
That's the ticket; 1/7/20, 2:34 PM
Inga said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/7/20, 2:50 PM
Inga said...: “I’ve heard of God working through people via the power of His spirit. Never heard of a mortal “acquiring” said power and wielding it to disfellowship another. Not in my Bible.”

I don’t know if you’re being intentionally obtuse or what, but no where did I say the power of the Holy Spirt was “acquired” by the elders or anyone who says he was directed by the Holy Spirit, or that the Holy Spirit was working THROUGH him; 1/7/20, 2:54 PM
traditionalguy said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/7/20, 3:00 PM
traditionalguy said...: @Mark...The problem is that man does not control the Holy Spirit.; 1/7/20, 3:01 PM
Mark said...: @Mark...The problem is that man does not control the Holy Spirit.

OK, and what the hell does that have to do with the Catholic Church?; 1/7/20, 3:38 PM
Mark said...: I know -- coming from you -- that it is some anti-Catholic bigoted attack, but still I can't figure out exactly what you're trying to say.; 1/7/20, 3:39 PM
Maillard Reactionary said...: Sounds like the Holy Spirit prefers a level of deniability. Good strategy.; 1/7/20, 4:18 PM
FullMoon said...: "Off topic: I just saw the footage of Harvey Weinstein arriving to court. Is that walker real? He looked like he'd never used it before."

Allegedly, Weinstein was in a car accident that caused him back pain, so the walker is "necessary" for him to walk. I say it's a prop he hopes will make him look old and enfeebled,

If I was gonna fake it, would walk in, wincing a little from pain. Would exit by standing up, take a couple of steps and grab a handrail for support while aid rushed to hallway to retrieve walker.; 1/7/20, 4:47 PM
FullMoon said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/7/20, 4:49 PM
FullMoon said...: @Earnest Prole said...

Yeah, Harvey singing,

"In my younger days
wish I knew then
what I know now.."; 1/7/20, 4:50 PM
FullMoon said...: Fuck Yeah !

COVINGTON, Ky. (FOX19) - CNN agreed Tuesday to settle a lawsuit with Covington Catholic student Nick Sandmann.

The amount of the settlement was not made public during a hearing at the federal courthouse in Covington, Kentucky.

Sandmann’s lawsuit sought $800 million from CNN, the Washington Post and NBC Universal.

Trial dates are still not set for Sandmann’s lawsuit against NBC Universal and the Washington Post.

The Washington Post suit sought $250 million. A federal judge let a portion of the suit go forward after The Post filed a motion to dismiss it.

https://www.fox19.com/2020/01/07/cnn-settles-lawsuit-with-nick-sandmann/; 1/7/20, 4:55 PM
Roughcoat said...: I stand corrected re Tolkien influencing Lewis's conversion to orthodox Christianity (not RC) with their walk around the lake. Thanks to those who set me straight on this.; 1/7/20, 5:34 PM
Roughcoat said...: Because Mere Christianity focused on aspects common to all sects, Catholics cherish it as much as Protestants.

This is true and accurate, and it is what got me mixed up, thinking that Lewis converted to RC. I know better, but I mis-remembered. We Catholics do indeed revere Lewis's thinking and writings. You'll find his books sold on every Catholic book website.; 1/7/20, 5:38 PM
Roughcoat said...: Others point out that he seemed to believe that the separation between Anglicanism and Catholicism was theologically unimportant and of no moment from a salvific standpoint, which arguably is at tension with dogmatic Catholicism, but only arguably.

Yes, I think this is the correct interpretation.; 1/7/20, 5:41 PM
Roughcoat said...: I've always believed, and I sense that Lewis would have believed it too, that if you're baptized in the Trinity's name, i.e. if you receive a trinitarian baptism, In nomine Patris et fillii et Spiritus Sancti, you're Christian, period, full stop -- and everything else is just "paperwork" (*metaphor alert*). Once baptized you are a Christian, and there is no person or power on earth and in heaven that can take that away from you. And that there are three forms of baptism: by water, by blood, and by desire.

Anyway that's what I believe. YMMV. No need to for disputation on this.; 1/7/20, 5:54 PM
traditionalguy said...: @Mark... All that 1:51 comment meant is that Catholics totally accept the supernatural part of Christianity in their liturgical and pastoral care. Then they turn around and strictly enforce law and rules. And interestingly, so do the Pentecostal Churches.; 1/7/20, 6:25 PM
DavidUW said...: Madre de Dios!

Also overheard in a cafe.; 1/7/20, 7:14 PM
Saint Croix said...: Once baptized you are a Christian, and there is no person or power on earth and in heaven that can take that away from you.

Both Hitler and Stalin were baptized. Neither were followers of Christ, in my opinion. They strayed from the flock.

I think baptism is important--Jesus was baptized. On the other hand, there are people who were not baptized who are followers of Christ.

For instance Gandhi was strongly influenced by Tolstoy, who was a big Christian. Gandhi was in turn an influence on King.

Gandhi was never baptized, but it wouldn't surprise me to run into Gandhi in heaven. I would be surprised to run into Hitler or Stalin.; 1/7/20, 8:27 PM
Saint Croix said...: this was when the Anglican Church was still well within the field of orthodox Christianity.

We still are. It's the third biggest church in the world, behind Roman Catholicism and Greek Orthodox. We're a smaller church in the U.S. but very big in Africa and other places. Tutu is an Anglican.; 1/7/20, 8:43 PM
Saint Croix said...: They are evangelical/fundamentalist buzzwords.

The holy spirit is not a fundamentalist buzzword. It's very basic Christianity. The holy spirit is part of the holy trinity...father, son, holy ghost. All the amazing and beautiful things that happen in the world? Holy spirit.; 1/7/20, 9:01 PM
cf said...: Roughcoat said...
"I love the Holy Spirit. I love it more than Jesus or God. The mystery appeals to me. Tolkien's "Flame Imperishable" that Morgoth sought but could not find. When I pray, it's to the Holy Spirit. I talked to my priest about this and he said it was okay. They're all the same anyway: all One."

I love Holy Spirit, too, as a reality, a real-time, immediate streaming Most High Goodness, unnameable, beyond all naming and knowing, behind all words. One can usually only know it after the fact. Because the reality is too Outside of normalcy to even perceive fully until later.

yeah, sure, it can be a flimflam line. like that guy in the laundramat in the 70s that said my aura was an amazing Green.

But, more possibly, it was real-time testimony of Direct Experience, that the speaker was sensing a fullness in her own heart and mind that so corresponded to what the other person was saying that she perceived the Biggest Mind was right there(!) behind the words, the ever-streaming Flow of delight and love and wisdom was directing this moment.

Buddhists call it Boddhi, the ever-streaming call to one's own unique Good
Yogis call it Ananda, an attribute of Brahman: always new, Ever-flowing Delight
Greco-Judeo-Christian tradition calls it Holy Spirit.

every blessing on all who lift their hearts toward the Good they sense, by whatever name and system.; 1/7/20, 10:03 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Inga is a walking fundamentalist buzzword; 1/7/20, 10:12 PM