January 24, 2020

Joe Rogan endorses Bernie Sanders and gets attacked as a "white nationalist transphobe."


I'm seeing Joe Rogan trending on Twitter and click through to "Joe Rogan Smeared as a ‘White Nationalist Transphobe’ After Bernie Sanders Accepts His Endorsement" (Summit News).
“Bernie’s campaign cutting a campaign ad with Joe Rogan fucking sucks,” tweeted former Vox journalist Carlos Maza. “Rogan is an incredibly influential bigot and Democrats should be marginalizing him.”

“Is this okay with you?” asked Jodi Jacobson. “The campaign video lauding the endorsement of a man known to be a misogynist, a racist, a homophobe, a transphobe, a white nationalist? This is okay? I need to know. I am literally crushed by this.”

“Joe Rogan is a transphobic bigot who shills for quackery and cuddles up to dangerous racists,” claimed Mikey Franklin. “Appearing on his show is bad but understandable. Publicising his endorsement is indefensible.”...

“Rogan can vote for whomever he wants but I don’t think the Bernie campaign should be touting a transphobic creep who gives a platform to Nazis,” commented Eli Valley....

Of course, Rogan isn’t a “transphobe” if such a thing exists, he merely says that it’s unfair for biological men to compete against women in sports because they have innate physical advantages. He also said it was wrong for biological male Fallon Fox to beat the hell out of biologically female opponents.

183 comments:

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Bernie is a consistent communist.

rehajm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

Buy Orville Redenbacher stock. Popcorn is going to hit a bull market.

Ralph L said...

Is the last paragraph is yours?

rehajm said...

He's been insanely consistent his whole life

He's been consistently insane his whole life.

rehajm said...

I am literally crushed by this.

No, but that could be arranged I'm sure.

J. Farmer said...

Sounds like Joe’s in the basket of deplorables. Believing men and women are biologically different = “insanely bigoted.” Welcome to modern America, folks.

tcrosse said...

Never mind what Joe's pronouns are. What are his epithets? A guy can never have too many.

Bay Area Guy said...

“Joe Rogan is a transphobic bigot who shills for quackery and cuddles up to dangerous racists,”

This is a great example of how the Left operates. Let's get "granular" as Steve Bannon likes to say.

1. Ordinarily, this is a good endorsement for Bernie. Rogan is popular. I wish he woulda endorsed Trump.

2. But, for the Left, they are so rotted out morally and intellectually to the point that they don't see this as helping their socialist candidate Bernie win.

3. Instead, they enjoy falsely calling folks racists, bigots, transphobes rather than actually debate the issues and hear the other side.

4. So, they take a clear political win, and turn it into a loss.

5. Which, of course, helps the folks who oppose Bernie's socialism (like me),

6. Thanks, guys! May our enemies remained confused.


Bob Boyd said...

They won't take yes for an answer.

n.n said...

White, yes. Diversitist, rabid, maybe. Nationalist, yes. Socialist, oddly, missing. Male, masculine, yes. Transphobe, a projected condition (PC). Left vs Left.

Lucid-Ideas said...

"When you've lost Rogan..."

Said no one ever. This is hands-down the weirdest f*cking timeline ever.

tim maguire said...

But, wait just a minute! Joe Rogan endorsed Tulsi Gabbard months ago. I heard him say it.

Is he an Indian endorser? (well, no. Maybe if he endorsed Warren...)

Seeing Red said...

Bernie says the same thing, but still has 3 houses and his wife bankrupted a college. All those people out of work.

Seeing Red said...

And flies private jet.

MikeM said...

Is Joe Rogan an important enough thinker that I should care what he says? His comment as to consistency is...meh and easily forgettable.
Actually, what I want to know is, who is Joe Rogan?

sara said...

Imagine saying this about Kim Jong Un, Assad, or Xi Jinping: "He’s been insanely consistent his entire life. He’s basically been saying the same thing, been for the same thing his whole life. And that in and of itself is a very powerful structure to operate from."

It's not that different from the facile "Believe in something, even if it means sacrificing everything" Nike ad.

Chuck said...

Is Joe Rogan one of those “Bernie is my guy but Trump is my backup” voters?

What is Joe Rogan’s personal policy platform? I’d try to find out, but I think it would give me a headache.

Fernandistein said...

‘White Nationalist Transphobe’

I wonder what the next incantation will be.

Bob Boyd said...

All the people slamming Rogan are probably Hillary sock puppets.

policraticus said...

Rogan is an incredibly influential bigot and Democrats should be marginalizing him.

And that, in a nutshell, is why Trump will win. And win, as Joe Rogan has said, "in a landslide."

Lucid-Ideas said...

"Transphobe"

I think I'm getting closer to figuring out how 0.6% of the population (maybe approaching 1.6% globally) is getting the reach, optics, and volume they're getting.

They're all online. All the time. Whether they're cam-whores, unemployed (more than likely), or working digitally being paid to throw shade, they literally have no other life than the life they have online where they're able to scream and rant - in many cases for free - 20+ hours a day.

Trans-people are quite literally 1% (if that) while simultaneously - through shear noise and OCD - consuming 50% of the bandwidth. News outlets and agenda-setters pay attention because how in the hell can they not? They can literally be ambushed by 1000 online trans each with 4 or 5 fake user accounts consistently for hours, days...they'll friggin' work in shifts. They have nothing else to do. It's like a DDoS attack except they're not using bots...it's real people in real time.

I cannot get over the influence these people are exerting on the conversation globally. It is the weirdest f*cking thing about this century thus far, and it all started within the decade.

Thanks Obama.

Shouting Thomas said...

Imagine supporting a Soviet/Cuban style communist and thinking you occupy the high moral ground.

Imagine... Robert Cook!

It’s easy if you try!

Bob Boyd said...

You know, it is insane to remain consistent as a communist despite everything that has happened in Sanders lifetime.

CJinPA said...

Joe Rogan seems to love approaching issues with an open mind and thinking them through without the influence of pop culture. I've long wondered when They would come for him.

rcocean said...

Bernie is a communist (almost) and has promised to set up a task force, or was it agency, to combat "white nationalism". And if Rogan endorsed Bernie, its just more evidence that Biden will win.

Bernie cannot be nominated. He's too radical, too white, too old, and has bad health. Why are progressives so dumb?

gahrie said...

Is Joe Rogan an important enough thinker that I should care what he says?

To be honest, not really. Rogan's "gifts" are the ability to conduct a long form interview and his willingness to talk to almost anybody about almost anything. His podcast is very interesting, but more for the guests than the host.

WK said...

Fernandistein said...
‘White Nationalist Transphobe’
I wonder what the next incantation will be.

Trans-nationalist whitephobe.

gahrie said...

By the way, Rogan's "sin" to the Left is precisely the fact that he is willing to listen to and argue with people he disagrees with rather than try to shut them up by calling them things like "a misogynist, a racist, a homophobe, a transphobe, a white nationalist".

Phil 314 said...

Sometimes you gotta break a few eggs...

Or crush a few listeners.

Fernandistein said...

Rogan is evil because Dukes of Hazzard

Yancey Ward said...

Policraticus nails it. This sort of massive over-reaction to an endorsement simply multiplies the effect of the endorsement itself. For all practical purposes, no one would have really cared about Rogan's endorsement but for the over-reaction of the anti-Sanders community in the Democratic Party.

The Democrats keep up this anti-Sanders crusade in this manner, and Sanders will run 3rd party and pick up 5%+ of the vote in November allowing Trump to win 40 states.

The really funny thing is that Sanders is almost surely not going to be the nominee- you can defeat him without resorting to deplorable attacks on his supporters. These people lack all common sense.

Yancey Ward said...

I posted this comment on the Biden thread, but it fits here better:

Yes, it looks like all the knives are out for Sanders now on the Democrat side. I predict the anti-Sanders thing is going to backfire spectacularly.

Char Char Binks said...

Sanders called a Trans-Indigian a liar, so there's that.

chuck said...

Rogan is a Right-Deviationist, amirite?

Bay Area Guy said...

I am hoping that Michael Avenatti will endorse Bernie next.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...


“I think I'll probably vote for Bernie... He’s been insanely consistent his entire life. He’s basically been saying the same thing, been for the same thing his whole life. And that in and of itself is a very powerful structure to operate from.”


Rogan would have LOVED Stalin.

What a lightweight.

CJinPA said...

FYI the "transphobe" stuff comes from his opinion that a man beating up women in MMA as a trans woman is a horrible idea.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Come to think about it, Sanders hasn't been consistent. Sanders always approved of limiting illegal and legal immigration to bolster the wages of the lowest earners.

Now that he got his third home paid for, he is open borders advocate.

So Rogan is a lightweight and wrong.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

#Sara

Saint Croix said...

Rogan's "gifts" are the ability to conduct a long form interview and his willingness to talk to almost anybody about almost anything.

He's a fantastic journalist, arguably the greatest journalist I've ever seen in my life. He has no real desire to control the interview. He often has interview subjects all across the political spectrum. He's open-minded and respectful. He doesn't interrupt or try to "win" the interview. He lets people have room to speak. He's a fantastic advocate for free speech and the power of free speech. Journalists could learn a hell of a lot by studying Joe Rogan.

mccullough said...

Good for Rogan. The Snowflakes are melting over this.

White Nationalist. Transphobic. Misogynist.

He hit the Trifecta.

Char Char Binks said...

Rogan's greatest gift is CTE.

Achilles said...

So joe Rogan wants me murdered or sent to a gulag.

Noted.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Just keep two things in mind about Rogan.

1. Until recently he believed the moon landing was a hoax.

2. He fell hook, line, and sinker for Annie Jacobsen's crap about Stalin staging the Roswell Incident with a captured Nazi flying saucer and some surgically modified Russian teenagers.

I like Rogan's podcasts because he has a wide variety of guests, but he's no mental giant.

Ann Althouse said...

“ Is the last paragraph is yours?”

No. It’s indented.

But for the record, I think Joe Rogan is a fine person. My opinion is based on listening to many full shows, more than 50 hours of Joe. He’s an expert on sports fighting and I think that paragraph sums up what he says on the subject, which most people just don’t want to talk about, because they don’t want to get canceled.

MadisonMan said...

See, if Rogan had been interviewing me, I would've taken his statement and said "But he's been consistently wrong in so many of his statements! He's a socialist with 3 houses and he's gotten rich from being a member of the Ruling Class! How is that consistent with his message?"

Maybe the guest said something similar, and Bernie decided not to use that part.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

I'm not a democrat primary voter. But I wanted Obama to beat Hillary and i wanted Bernie to beat Hillary.

Of all the leftwing candidates, Bernie is no longer a good choice. He is a nightmare. Tulsi and Pete are the exciting candidates - but the deep state won't allow.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

I'm kinda surprised he didn't go for Tulsi.

Sebastian said...

What rehajm said, obvious, yes, but true:

"He's been insanely consistent his whole life

He's been consistently insane his whole life".

Bay Area Guy said...

You guys are too harsh on Rogan. He doesn't know politics. He's just a dude chatting about stuff, without the politically correct straight jacket.

If Bernie wins and taxes the shit of out him, he will accelerate his learning curve.

But he does believe in the free exchange of ideas -- that is rare these days.

I say Rogan deserves a mulligan.

traditionalguy said...

Sweet Old Bernie is as consistent as Lenin and the Reds were with the liquidation of the Kulaks. They had to turn over all their food and starve to death. The Reds had no second thoughts on their Policy as the five million starved and starved and starved.

After all the counter revolutionaries wanted to eat some of the food they had grown on their land. But that was food that Bernie and his Communists had declared to be State owned.

Nathan said...

I listened to the entire episode, and I did not take this bit of dialogue as a Bernie endorsement. For one, I've listened to his podcast for years and he has never been political in the democrat vs. republican respect. He is a self-admitted lefty/progressive but has always kept himself out of the day-to-day battles that the online politically-active fight. Second, right around the same time in the conversation he stated his preference for Tulsi. He is also realistic about her chances so stated he would 'probably' vote for Bernie because that would be his best option. I would love to know if the Bernie campaign did this with his knowledge and approval. Hopefully he addresses it.

n.n said...

a man beating up women in MMA as a trans woman is a horrible idea

A liberal interpretation of "wife beater".

That said, diversity (i.e. color judgment) is, in principle, exclusive. However, in this case, it's (i.e. men beating/bullying women, is diversity and inclusion. Progress.

Sebastian said...

By the way, is Bernie himself any less white nationalist transphobic? God forbid, but he might even still believe that all lives matter.

A Bernie presidency would be fun in one sense, to see how the hard old class-based left crushes the soft new identity-based left right quick. Trannies hardest hit.

bagoh20 said...

There is a lot I have enjoyed about Rogan, but he has often disappointed me with his opinions on politics, and this is the worst. Bernie's ideas are known, established disasters. No intelligent person should still be going there. It's just stupid on it's face. Sorry, Joe. I've lost all respect, which means I'm not really interested anymore. I don't need to waste time listening to stupid people. Hollywood circles and easy money have ruined you.

bagoh20 said...

As for being "white nationalist transphobic", isn't everyone one of those now?

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

2. He fell hook, line, and sinker for Annie Jacobsen's crap about Stalin staging the Roswell Incident with a captured Nazi flying saucer and some surgically modified Russian teenagers.

I like Rogan's podcasts because he has a wide variety of guests, but he's no mental giant.

1/24/20, 11:38 AM

Yeah. There's a Rogan podcast with some guest claiming that there is a Nazi hospital in South America conducting weird experiments on Brazilian kids. It was apparently run by Mengele. The guest had all these gruesome tales about what went on there.

Except there is absolutely no evidence for this bizarre "Boys from Brazil" scenario. Mengele didn't run any hospitals in South America. He ended his life hiding out in a Sao Paulo slum, so terrified of being captured by the Mossad that he developed an intestinal blockage from chewing the ends of his mustache. His son, who secretly visited him in the mid-70's, said Mengele was a frail, sick and bitter old man.

But Rogan seemed to swallow this guest's bullshit. No wonder he fell for Bernie's BS.

CJinPA said...

Rogan doesn't claim to be a political pundit or an intellectual heavyweight.

He sounds just like he is: a comedian/MMA color analyst who likes talking about a wide range of stuff with a wide range of people.

Even this tepid endorsement (not really an endorsement: “I think I'll probably vote for Bernie...he’s been insanely consistent his entire life") demonstrates how little he cares about politics. It reflects the approach of many voters in supporting a candidate not for policies but for the person's "sincerity." (I did this in my youth.) Even our Favorite Blogger weighs candidates not on policy but on more general, non-policy characteristics.

Andrew said...

I can't recall the exact reference, but there's a battle in the Old Testament in which Israel is in danger of being defeated. They win the battle because God causes their enemies to turn on and destroy each other. Israel does almost nothing except clean up what's left over.

That seems to be happening now with the Democrats. Trump barely has to do anything. Just let the Dems devour each other, and save the kill shot for the bloodied nominee.

Matt said...

Someone with influence needs to tell the trannies to STFU. All 63 of them.

They. Don't. Matter.

Of course, it was rather pollyanish to think you could acquiesce to the demands of the Ls and Gs and Bs and never get to the Ts.

But still. F 'em.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

"But he does believe in the free exchange of ideas -- that is rare these days."

Yep. It's unfortunate that it's such a rarity that it makes someone like Rogan a shining star in the media world.

rehajm said...

What rehajm said, obvious, yes, but true

Alas, no. If only it were obvious to everyone...

bagoh20 said...

"Joe Rogan seems to love approaching issues with an open mind and thinking them through without the influence of pop culture"

That's two different things. Yes to the first, but thinking them through? He often accepts complete bullshit that the tiniest amount of actual thinking would rule out. Bernie is the latest example. Consistency has no positive value on it's own. If you are right about things, it's great, but if you are wrong like Bernie, it clearly only makes it worse. If anything, consistency is a net negative, as it's often a lack of ability to learn and grow. In a way, it's just the opposite of intelligence.

J. Farmer said...

I used to get strange looks from people back in 2016 when I would tell them my second choice for president after Trump was Sanders. I think the comparisons to Stalin or Lenin are pretty absurd. Sanders is basically a New Deal democrat. I don't have a particular love for Nordic-style social democracy, but that is clearly what Sanders represents. Copying that system had been the basic goal of the Democratic party for half a century until the big shift towards globalism/corporatism under the DLC in the 1980s and later under Clinton's presidency. The so called "new world order" has been the basic platform of every president since Clinton, and while I had hopes that Trump would throw a monkey wrench into the system, he has largely been assimilated by the Establishment and, with the exception of immigration, has basically governed like a moderate Republican. Trump supporters are so stoked over winning 24/7 news cycle battles that they don't even notice they are losing the war.

J. Farmer said...

In a way, it's just the opposite of intelligence.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

Nonapod said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nonapod said...

I generally cut Rogan a fair amount of slack. He sort of thinks out loud and is refreshingly open minded. He commits himself to the spirit of open dialogue with just about anyone in an age where excessive candor can get you shouted down and blacklisted. He'll have on all sorts of guests with all sorts of viewpoints, conservatives and liberals, celebrities big and small, meat loving hunters and hardcore vegans, MMA fighters and heady intellectuals, professional pool players, automobile enthusiasts, surfers, free hand climbers, ulta marathon runners, ex CIA agents, Navy Seals, surivivalists... you name it.

He's also become a very good interviewer over the years. He generally likes to keep a positive attitude and asks interesting questions. I think at heart he's an old style liberal, but he dislikes a lot of more oppressive aspects of modern progressivism.

So while I think he's being a bit foolish and maybe even a bit sentimental in his sort-of "endorsement" (which he may end up clarifying based on Bernie's response), I'm not gonna hold it against hi. too much

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Yeah. There's a Rogan podcast with some guest claiming that there is a Nazi hospital in South America conducting weird experiments on Brazilian kids. It was apparently run by Mengele. The guest had all these gruesome tales about what went on there.

Except there is absolutely no evidence for this bizarre "Boys from Brazil" scenario. Mengele didn't run any hospitals in South America. He ended his life hiding out in a Sao Paulo slum, so terrified of being captured by the Mossad that he developed an intestinal blockage from chewing the ends of his mustache. His son, who secretly visited him in the mid-70's, said Mengele was a frail, sick and bitter old man.

But Rogan seemed to swallow this guest's bullshit. No wonder he fell for Bernie's BS.


That may have been the same podcast. He also swallowed her shit about the Heidelberg dueling scars seen on senior German officers being some sort of weird Nazi ritual, even though Hitler banned dueling after he came to power in 1936.

Rogan's not dumb, but he's not very learned, either.

Iman said...

BB and H had it right in the first comment. As I understand it, Bernie lived in what amounted to a shack during the early 70s and even his friends said that when he got up in the morning, there was never a “good morning” from Bernie, he’d jump straight to ranting about the coming revolution.

Iman said...

“ He's been insanely consistent his whole life

He's been consistently insane his whole life.”

Hilarious!!!!!

MBunge said...

“Sanders is basically a New Deal democrat.“

Go read what Sanders had to say about Venezuela over the years, and note particularly what he HASN’T said as that country has collapsed into a socialist hellhole.

Sanders biggest weakness as a candidate is he’s never had to face a major league political fastball. His next biggest weakness, however, is that it appears his understanding of economics has not changed one single bit since he honeymooned in the Soviet Union.

Mike

donald said...

When he says he’s just an idiot in front of a microphone he ain't kidding.

I like his podcast and there’s a lot of interesting and funny stuff on it, but dude...

narciso said...

Thats confused now there was colonia dignidad in chile,

mikee said...

Say what you want about Rogan, the guy kept that Newsradio station up and on the air all by himself. That's a lot of maintenance and repair.

CJinPA said...

"He sort of thinks out loud..."

Yup. You don't see that much, and it is going to lead to some silly positions.

J. Farmer said...

@MBunge:

Go read what Sanders had to say about Venezuela over the years, and note particularly what he HASN’T said as that country has collapsed into a socialist hellhole.

I don't find this argument particularly convincing. It's a fact of human nature that people tend to be more charitable to those closer to their political spectrum than those further away. The right's lovefest for Pinochet was an example of this.

His next biggest weakness, however, is that it appears his understanding of economics has not changed one single bit since he honeymooned in the Soviet Union.

That may be, but when Sanders says that he supports a Nordic-style welfare state, I believe him. That has been the goal of the left for many many years, long before the advent of identity politics. I am not as enthused because I think people are different, and you can't just copy one state's political structure and expect to get different outcomes. The Nordic-style system works because it is Nordic. That said, most of Sanders' domestic agenda would be stymied by Congress.

J. Farmer said...

@NorthOfTheOneOhOne:

Rogan's not dumb, but he's not very learned, either.

When Rogan first got into podcasting, one of his big hobby horses was that the moon landing was faked. He has since disavowed this belief.

CJinPA said...

bagoh20 said...

I agree with you on Bernie, but that's because I have strong feelings about Socialism. Most people do not, unfortunately. Rogan just doesn't think about politics as much as the people 'round these parts.

CJinPA said...

I had hopes that Trump would throw a monkey wrench into the system, he has largely been assimilated by the Establishment and, with the exception of immigration, has basically governed like a moderate Republican. Trump supporters are so stoked over winning 24/7 news cycle battles that they don't even notice they are losing the war.

I think you had unrealistic expectations for what a president can do, by himself, while fending off the destruction of his presidency from within and without.

Iman said...

Look what's happening out in the streets
Got a revolution
Got to revolution
Bernie’s dancing down the street
Got a revolution
Got to revolution
Hey, that ain’t dancing his feet ain’t fleet
Got a revolution
Got to revolution

His generation got old
His generation got mold
New generation got no hesitation to scold
Pick up the cry
Hey now it's time for Bernie
Got a revolution
Got to revolution
Like lemmings marching to the sea
Got a revolution
Got to revolution

tim maguire said...

J. Farmer said...
I used to get strange looks from people back in 2016 when I would tell them my second choice for president after Trump was Sanders.


You touch on an under-examined facet of the 2016 election--Trump and Sanders were chasing a lot of the same voters. Basically, there was and is a strong desire for a reformist. If the Democrats had nominated Sanders, he would have split the protest vote. Instead, the Democrats nominated the business as usual Hillary and ceded the protest vote to Trump.

CJinPA said...

That may be, but when Sanders says that he supports a Nordic-style welfare state, I believe him.

Scandinavian economist: "In Scandinavia we have no poverty."

U.S. Economist Milton Friedman: "That's interesting, because in America among Scandinavians, we have no poverty either."

J. Farmer said...

@CJinPA:

I think you had unrealistic expectations for what a president can do, by himself, while fending off the destruction of his presidency from within and without.

To be fair, I always considered a Trump presidency a hail mary pass, fully expecting the Establishment to fight tooth and nail. But nothing about Trump's opposition forced him to support more legal immigration into the country. He has been calling for more immigration for over a year now, and that is a completely idiotic policy. That's the exact opposite of the direction we need to be moving. And Trump has apparently bought into the "we need the people" charade hook, line, and sinker.

Biotrekker said...

Yes, Bernie has been a consistent totalitarian communist who loves/apologizes for every Left-Wing dictator, no matter how brutal, and hates the very capitalist system that gave him and his family such a great life because somewhere, someone might be wealthier than he.

JohnAnnArbor said...

Consistently wrong.

J. Farmer said...

U.S. Economist Milton Friedman: "That's interesting, because in America among Scandinavians, we have no poverty either."

Much pithier than me saying, "the Nordic-style system works because it is Nordic." But I obviously agree. Sanders' most egregious error, from my point of view, is that he is a Rousseauist. He sees human beings as lumps of clay that can be molded in any direction with the correct social policies. He cannot accept that if you put a million Somalis in Sweden, they will remain stubbornly Somali. Racial egalitarianism is a hallmark of Sanders' kind of lefty thinking, and his worldview is simply too constructed around it for him to ever seriously challenge the concept.

Temujin said...

The Left is deranged. And not just a little corner of the left with a few people wearing pussy hats. I mean millions of them, many of them owing tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans as they carry useless degrees in their back pockets wailing about how anyone who disagrees with their craziness is a transphobic bigot. You see, you cannot just be a plain old bigot any longer. You have to be known by your particular area of bigotry expertise.

The Left is gone. Our only hope is that they keep having to fill out agreements to have sex, or for those who succeed in having sex, they then turn to abortions (as they will). In this way, they become extinct within another generation or two.

As for Joe Rogan loving Bernie's particular brand of consistency. Joe Stalin was consistent his entire life as well. Still- I'd think twice before I allowed him and his people to make decisions on my life. And believe me- they will spend their time making decisions about your life. At least Trump let's me live mine.

J. Farmer said...

@Biotrekker:

Yes, Bernie has been a consistent totalitarian communist who loves/apologizes for every Left-Wing dictator, no matter how brutal, and hates the very capitalist system that gave him and his family such a great life because somewhere, someone might be wealthier than he.

Oh brother. Yes, people on the left tend to be friendlier to left-leaning dictators, and people on the right tend to be friendlier to right-leaning dictators. He might be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch. And even if Sanders could wave a magic wand and get all of his domestic policies passed, we'd still be living in a capitalist society.

Lucid-Ideas said...

@J. Farmer

"Sanders is basically a New Deal Democrat"

Sanders is as close to New Deal Democrat as Pluto is to the Sun. I agree with your assessment on the hyperbole a la Stalin/Lenin, but if Trump kicked off a major infrastructure revitalization and jobs program in his 2nd term, he would still be more of a New Deal Democrat than Sanders.

Will Cate said...

Honestly, I don't think anyone except the Rogan-haters give two shits who he votes for.

And he'll probably change his mind again in a few weeks, depending on how stoned he is.

narciso said...

he's a fricken Marxist, he took his honeymoon in the Soviet Union, he would have been wiped out in the first round of purges, he was for the sandanistas who were soviet puppets then, he doesn't see any problem with bread lines, you can't ignore what he is,

Iman said...

Ben & Jerry’s announces new Bernie-inspired ice cream flavor: “Old Man Back Hair Maple Swirl Commie Nut Crunch”

J. Farmer said...

@tim in maguire:

If the Democrats had nominated Sanders, he would have split the protest vote. Instead, the Democrats nominated the business as usual Hillary and ceded the protest vote to Trump.

I think that is exactly right. Trump's biggest accomplishment may be putting an end to the Clinton and Bush dynasties. And we have seen over three years later that there has been hardly an ounce of self-criticism on the part of DNC. In fact, they've been on a desperate witch hunt to explain Hillary's loss (e.g. Russia, Wikileaks, Facebook ads) that doesn't involve Hillary.

J. Farmer said...

@Lucid-Ideas:

Sanders is as close to New Deal Democrat as Pluto is to the Sun.

Which of Sanders' major policy agendas do you think are at odds with New Deal liberalism? Recall that the New Deal and FDR were attacked in virtually the same terms.

J. Farmer said...

p.s. This article, Why Bernie Talks About the New Deal, in Jacobin Magazine last year covers some of the detail.

Sal said...

"White nationalist transphobe" is just the most topical and fashionable slur here in January 2020. Everyone I don't like or disagree with is one. Next month we'll come up with something different.

narciso said...

I remember the Odessa files (the book mostly) underplayed the skullduggery, of how these ratlines got the likes of Roschmann to argentina, Levin just extrapolated the experience in Poland to Paraguay, Barbie was much more tied into bolivian politics, as was walter rauff in chile,

CJinPA said...

He cannot accept that if you put a million Somalis in Sweden, they will remain stubbornly Somali. Racial egalitarianism is a hallmark of Sanders' kind of lefty thinking, and his worldview is simply too constructed around it for him to ever seriously challenge the concept.

This is probably close to the neocon Invade the Word/Invite the World line of thinking: all cultures want the same thing and have equal talent for making it work.

mockturtle said...

They continue to eat their own.

Nonapod said...

I'm actually not as well versed on what exactly a "New Deal Democrat" is in modern terms other than obviously being hugely pro-labor union, for doing things like re-instating the Glass–Steagall Act, being for lots of big public works projects, and probaly just to generally increase social wellfare type programs.

Here's a few of Bernies positions. Bernie wants College to be free and to cancel student debt, to abolish the Electoral College, and to allow incarcerated prisoners to vote. He wants to close down existing Nuclear power plants, banning fracking, heavily regulating all carbon emissions, breaking up agribusinesses, he's all in on Medicare for all, he wants citizenship for "Dreamers".

I could be wrong, but some of those positions don't seem to square well with what I imagine a "New Deal" Dem would be for (in particular ending fracking and closing down Nuke plants, and allowing prisoners the vote?)

narciso said...

in the 1930-40s venue, he would be more akin to Harold laski, who wanted fdr to 'not let a crisis go to waste' and nationalize industry,

Lucid-Ideas said...

@J. Farmer

How is total amnesty for illegal immigrants and pledges to go after billionaires 'New Deal'? How is a record of being for nationalizing or straight closing down entire industry sectors 'New Deal'?

And that's tame by comparison with other statements.

narciso said...

as I pointed last night, sanders pixieish communication director, shut down her account,

eric said...

Four years ago Bernie held Trump's position on immigration.

Today Bernie holds the open borders position.

This isn't consistent unless you think Bernie is lying today for votes.

J. Farmer said...

@Lucid-Ideas:

How is total amnesty for illegal immigrants and pledges to go after billionaires 'New Deal'? How is a record of being for nationalizing or straight closing down entire industry sectors 'New Deal'?

And that's tame by comparison with other statements.


My point in referring to Sanders as "New Deal democrat" does not mean that his positions are identical to what a democrat would have had in the 1930s. It is to describe a certain disposition. Read FDR's so called "Second Bill of Rights" and tel me that it is not a pretty concise summation of Sanders' agenda.

Achilles said...

J. Farmer said...
I think the comparisons to Stalin or Lenin are pretty absurd. Sanders is basically a New Deal democrat.

To be fair FDR wanted internment camps too.

And implemented them.

Nonapod said...

I'm not a mind reader, so I can't say for certain if Bernie is actually lying about changing his position on immigration. But I imagine that a President Bernie Sanders would work to get citizenship for dreamers and remove criminal penalties for entering the country illegally, especially since those positions are so popular among his strongest supporters.

J. Farmer said...

How Bernie Sanders Has Changed His Approach To Immigration covers the territory pretty well. It appears that Sanders has bought into the foolish lie that Democrats need to suck up to Latinos to be electorally relevant. Sanders is always seemed a little uncomfortable with the identity politics wing of the Democratic Party, preferring instead to ground himself in economic populism.

SDaly said...

Check out Jodi "Optimism Bias" Jacobson's twitter avatar. She(?) (not self-identified pronouns so I can't be sure) describes herself(?) as "progressive but not predictable."

The lack of self-awareness is incomprehensible.

J. Farmer said...

@Achilles:

To be fair FDR wanted internment camps too.

And implemented them.


To be fair, internment was popular across the political spectrum. Robert Taft is the only major politician that comes to mind in opposing internment.

Nonapod said...

I think you meant this URL?

Lucid-Ideas said...

@J. Farmer

Yes. That 'Economic Bill of Rights' is definitely not the 'New Deal' and does on the surface appear to more closely match Burnie's positions, with the exception that Burnie includes non-citizens in those guarantees. Three things. 1) We were still right in the middle of a war and 2) that is far far beyond a definition I would've ascribed to a 'New Deal' Democrat (not even an addendum) and 3) I would've have voted against FDR just as much as Burnie for even proposing it.

J. Farmer said...

I think you meant this URL?

Oops. Yes, thanks for the correction.

Lucid-Ideas said...

Economic guarantees are not rights. Period. It's thinking like that has gotten every Western-democracy with unfunded liabilities and obligations - forever with no sunsets - into their current mess.

PROSPERITY IS AN ASPRIATION. NOT A RIGHT.

narciso said...

fdr had a bug about Japanese immigration since the 20s, that's not new, he was pro china, perhaps because of his grandfather's business in the early 19th century,

Iman said...

“ The lack of self-awareness is incomprehensible.”

and entirely predictable!

Nonapod said...

PROSPERITY IS AN ASPRIATION. NOT A RIGHT.

Yes. It's why the Declaration of Independence outlined it as the right to pursue happiness. There's no right to just have it.

At any rate, I think pretty much all of Bernie's ideas are awful. Most of them have been tried in some form before in other places and at other times and have usually proven to be pretty disastrous. It's distressing that so many good people seem to buy into his nonsense, but here we are.

Wince said...

Bay Area Guy said...
1. Ordinarily, this is a good endorsement for Bernie. Rogan is popular. I wish he woulda endorsed Trump.

It should be noted that Rogan was asked who he'd vote for... in the primary.

chickelit said...

I missed the whole Joe Rogan bandwagon. Now it looks like people are getting off of it.

Next?

J. Farmer said...

@Lucid-Ideas:

PROSPERITY IS AN ASPRIATION. NOT A RIGHT.

Not sure who you're yelling at here, but I agree. You can't really have a right to things, as that would imply you had a right to somebody else's labor.

Wince said...

He’s been insanely consistent his entire life. He’s basically been saying the same thing, been for the same thing his whole life. And that in and of itself is a very powerful structure to operate from.” -Joe Rogan

That Sanders consistency has spanned the many failures of socialism and fall of communism in the USSR doesn't speak well of his judgment.

Wince said...

PROSPERITY IS AN ASPRIATION. NOT A RIGHT.

But the freedoms necessary to the "pursuit" of that aspiration are rights.

J. Farmer said...

But the freedoms necessary to the "pursuit" of that aspiration are rights.

But those freedoms are freedoms from things, basically coercion and theft. "Keep your hands to yourself," as every child learns. What we call rights are basically limitations on state power.

J. Farmer said...

Of course, all this talk is merely rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Once demographics get done doing their work in Texas and Florida, conservative national governance will be pretty much finished. Once we have the demographics of Latin America, we will have the governance of Latin America. Even Trump has bought into the egregious lie that we "need the people" (i.e. we need to keep the labor market loose so wages don't go up).

Bilwick said...

"He's been insanely consisten his whole life--consistently wrong, and consistently believing in stupid ideas that result in Democide." FIFY, Joe.

narciso said...

latin America, is very polarized, Guatemala and Venezuela, are the poles of political development, the former hasn't drifted left and the latter hasn't move right in more than 20 years,

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

J Farmer @ 2.39

on this J Farmer, we agree.

All Trump needed to do is grow a spine come out and say "We have too much legal immigration. We need to slow it down for a while until we figure this out. and we must STOP all illegal immigration by any means necessary. No -this does not make me and most Americans "racist"."
Then follow through.

The dude would win in a land slide.

J. Farmer said...

@BleachBit-and-Hammers:

The dude would win in a land slide.

Completely agree. Emmanuel Macron had a similar epiphany when he realized the serious challenges to his right came almost exclusively from people who wanted stricter immigration, a policy Macron acceded to. Economic populism is a popular position, and combining it with restrictions on immigration would be a winner. As Trump's 2016 election proved. Although, honestly, I still don't think Trump has even put that together. Or is capable of putting it together. His greatest weakness is that he is too easily swayed by those around him, and those around him (presuming they have half a brain) know that the easiest way to get Trump on your side is to flatter and praise him. Trump seems to be a shockingly insecure man.

walter said...

Will Cate said... he'll probably change his mind again in a few weeks, depending on how stoned he is.
--
..or which candidate agrees to be on his show next.
Rogan's political statements vary quite a bit depending on his guest du jour.

Oh how glorious an economy we'd get under Berno.
Might make Krugman's prediction finally correct.

Howard said...

More Deep State versus Dark Web sparing.

gahrie said...

You can't really have a right to things, as that would imply you had a right to somebody else's labor.

You mean like healthcare, the internet and free college tuition?

J. Farmer said...

@walter:

..or which candidate agrees to be on his show next.
Rogan's political statements vary quite a bit depending on his guest du jour.


I bet if Rogan did one of those Nolan chart quizzes, he'd probably end up somewhere on the left-libertarian spectrum.

J. Farmer said...

@gahrie:

You mean like healthcare, the internet and free college tuition?

Sure, but arguing over whether or not you have "a right" to these things is mostly just a semantic game. You can support single-payer, for example, without believing that someone has a "right to healthcare." Similarly, you can support the government funding of construction projects without believing that people have a "right to roads."

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

J Farmer.
Possible theory. I don't know it that is true.
IMO- Trump needed to follow thru on day one and also fire all the Obama hold-overs. The back-stabbers and deep state corruption squad were waiting in the weeds to stifle his every move and have, in part, succeeded.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

I support helping those in need. I have to problem with government programs that work well to help those in need. The best way to help everyone with healthcare is to allow choice and competition to flourish.

Single payer will only force us all onto a wait-list for care- Like all single-payer government run systems around the world.

J. Farmer said...

@BleachBit-and-Hammers:

The back-stabbers and deep state corruption squad were waiting in the weeds to stifle his every move and have, in part, succeeded.

I think that is the right's version of Russiagate, an attempt to avoid blaming their candidate for his clear errors. I am not sure what part of jumping on the Paul Ryan domestic agenda or calling for more immigration can be laid at the feet of "back-stabbers and deep state corruption squad." Does Trump support these things or not?

CJinPA said...

chickelit said...
I missed the whole Joe Rogan bandwagon. Now it looks like people are getting off of it.

Next?
---

LOL. The internet explained.

J. Farmer said...

The best way to help everyone with healthcare is to allow choice and competition to flourish.

That is the rote "free market" response, but I am not so sure. There is likely going to have to be some combination of public and private involvement. A lot of "free market" types sing the praises of Singapore's healthcare system, and the fact that costs are mostly born by patients and not insurers. But there is a huge amount of government regulation and involvement in the healthcare industry.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

J Farmer-
Trump was my last choice in 2016, but here we are. Sadly, no candidate really gets it. none of them. R or D.
Re-read my comment about immigration and yours - I still feel the same and it's only been 5 minutes.

Trump's failure to follow thru on his immigration promises will probably cost him. But I'm still rooting for him to win if he is the candidate. Aslo, the blatant unfairness of his treatment by lying assholes like Adam Schitt - I will vote against Adam Schitt and his corrupt party. The leftwing choices are horrific.
Pelosi is corrupt. Biden is corrupt. Hillary is corrupt. Bernie and his wife have some serious questions about government pocket-lining.

Like you say - we will have one party rule and these people will continue to line their pockets while they vilify the common man. and we will drip faster to Venezuela.

mockturtle said...

The main problem with the New Deal was that it wasn't discontinued when the depression ended. Like all federal programs, it just kept expanding.

MBunge said...

"The right's lovefest for Pinochet was an example of this."


The Right "loved" Pinochet because he was anti-communist in the midst of the Cold War. Since the Cold War ended, conservative enthusiasm for authoritarian dictators has pretty clearly declined. Bernie looks at Venezeula and says nothing because...?

"That may be, but when Sanders says that he supports a Nordic-style welfare state, I believe him."

And back to Venezuela, when exactly did Maduro promise to turn his country into a dystopian nightmare?

Mike

MBunge said...

"I am not sure what part of jumping on the Paul Ryan domestic agenda or calling for more immigration can be laid at the feet of "back-stabbers and deep state corruption squad.""


1. Uh...maybe you noticed that the Democrats and trying to impeach Trump over nothing? Faced with that level of opposition and 95% negative coverage from the mainstream media and your advice to Trump would have been to spit in Paul Ryan's face? You don't have to believe Trump is perfect to recognize the limitations he's faced in getting anything done.

2. You're not one of these Steve Sailer race guys who think there's something genetic about Western Civilization, are you? Immigration is actually a positive thing as long as it takes place in a controlled environment with a proper emphasis on assimilation.

Mike

mockturtle said...

To be fair, internment was popular across the political spectrum. Robert Taft is the only major politician that comes to mind in opposing internment.

I favor internment camps for the drug addicted and mentally ill homeless. Call them 'rehabilitation facilities'--but get them off the street. They deserve better than what they're getting, which is nothing in the way of meaningful help. And, no, it should not be voluntary. By their own lifestyle they have shown themselves to be incompetent to make such decisions.

Maybe some of you who live in severe climates don't see much of the problem but please trust those of us who do.

Amadeus 48 said...

Joe Rogan is OK, because this is a free country.

I am not going to take his advice on voting for Bernie Sanders.

I don't understand how anyone could in good conscience vote for Bernie because (as Althouse said about Trump in discussing her 2016 vote) Bernie is just too weird.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Wince said...
Bay Area Guy said...
1. Ordinarily, this is a good endorsement for Bernie. Rogan is popular. I wish he woulda endorsed Trump.

It should be noted that Rogan was asked who he'd vote for... in the primary.

1/24/20, 2:20 PM

Tactically, it's a good move for Rogam. He can say, "I'm a leftist, but an open-minded one who wants to talk to all sorts of people." Of course, the "woke" left will scream, but that position makes him acceptable to many who are not on the "woke" left.

However, if he endorses Trump, he'll immediately get labeled "alt right" and "Nazi" and You Tube will try to shut him down. Because tolerance only goes so far....

walter said...

No way will Rogan endorse Trump.

daskol said...

If Bernie had remained consistent, I would have a lot more respect for him. For most of his life, he rejected the identity politics paradigm embraced by contemporary progressives, and stuck to his guns: it was about class, not racial or sexual or other identity. And he maintained a steadfast pro-worker, pro-American "citizenist" type position on immigration: he was against illegal immigration because of the impact it had on wages for lower skilled work, and he cautioned against mass immigration for the same reason. In seeking national office, he abandoned both of these principles. So no, Bernie is not operating from that principled position of consistency and strength that Rogan believes.

J. Farmer said...

@MBunge:

The Right "loved" Pinochet because he was anti-communist in the midst of the Cold War.

Right. Just as I said, "people tend to be more charitable to those closer to their political spectrum than those further away."

Since the Cold War ended, conservative enthusiasm for authoritarian dictators has pretty clearly declined.

I don't think that is true at all. Our entire posture in the middle east is based on supporting autocratic rulers who keep a lid on populist pressures.

And back to Venezuela, when exactly did Maduro promise to turn his country into a dystopian nightmare?

And when did Maduro promise to copy a Scandinavia-style system? Venezuela has a lot of problems, including economic mismanagement and corruption. I don't see what any of that has to do with Sanders, who long ago rejected nationalization of major industries.

Faced with that level of opposition and 95% negative coverage from the mainstream media and your advice to Trump would have been to spit in Paul Ryan's face?

Trump campaigned against Paul Ryan's agenda. I don't think disagreeing with Paul Ryan on the domestic agenda is spitting in his face.

You're not one of these Steve Sailer race guys who think there's something genetic about Western Civilization, are you? Immigration is actually a positive thing as long as it takes place in a controlled environment with a proper emphasis on assimilation.

Depends on what you mean by "think there's something genetic about Western Civilization." Do I think race is important? Yes. Do I think race partly explains Western Civilization? Yes. But then again, I am a white nationalist. It is the people who make the nation. If you change the people, you change the nation. What do you think explains the cultural/developmental differences between North America and Latin America?

Rocketeer said...

You can support single-payer, for example, without believing that someone has a "right to healthcare." Similarly, you can support the government funding of construction projects without believing that people have a "right to roads."

That is a very inapt analogy. Government does lock prohibit the construction of private roads.

narciso said...

you don't think ideology prefigures cultural identity, the ford Carnegie Rockefeller foundations have been pushing globalism, multiculturalism, ethno nationalism of immigrant populaces since the 70s,

Aunty Trump said...

I saw a documentary on “the disappeared” and it was supposed to be sympathetic to them, but it turns out that they were mostly Cubans pushing their “revolution” which, as we now know, is a plot to imprison the entire country, as has been done with Cuba.

DavidUW said...

Regarding Pinochet etc

Objectively post Ww2 “right wing” dictators a la Franco, Salazar, Pinochet etc have led to better outcomes than left wing dictators a la Castro, Ortega, mugabe, etc etc.

There’s something about commies that really destroy the fabric of a nation. Perhaps it’s the support for our power politics and thievery, destruction of traditional morals and the like that does it

narciso said...

well the Brazilian and argentine guerillas followed marighela, and Guevara, to their doom, at least in the short term, the kirschners in the later case were associates of the guerillas, and they brought them to power, in north Africa, you had the eradicateurs, that tried to wipe out the islamists, the irony of the junta spokesman, lecturing assad is choice,

narciso said...

dilma roussef, the previous prime minister was also a fmr guerilla, she was caught up in the car wash corruption scandal, along with fmr labour leader lula da silva, and the speaker of the house,

J. Farmer said...

@DavidUW:

Objectively post Ww2 “right wing” dictators a la Franco, Salazar, Pinochet etc have led to better outcomes than left wing dictators a la Castro, Ortega, mugabe, etc etc.

That was essentially Jeane Kirkpatrick’s argument in her Commentary essay “Dictatorships and Double Standards.” I don’t think her argument is particularly good, and my evidence is the development path of the former Eastern Bloc countries.

Aunty Trump said...

This nation was settled originally by Puritans. Still they show up, long since the witch trials ended.

Ken B said...

Farmer
You do realize the former eastern bloc successes are all strongly anti socialist, right?

MadTownGuy said...

Nonapod said...

"Bernie wants College to be free and to cancel student debt, to abolish the Electoral College, and to allow incarcerated prisoners to vote. He wants to close down existing Nuclear power plants, banning fracking, heavily regulating all carbon emissions, breaking up agribusinesses, he's all in on Medicare for all, he wants citizenship for "Dreamers"."

Benefits can be used as the State's means of control. To wit:
- Cancel student debt (and its corollary, free college for all) - opportunity for state-sanctioned indoctrination.
- Abolish the Electoral College - 'purer' democracy where the more populous states exercise more control over what goes on the the less populated ones.
- Green energy- used as an excuse to make private transportation options unaffordable and limit individual mobility, or at least allow the state to keep tabs on who goes where.
- Breaking up agribusiness - first step toward state ownership of agricultural production. Make it harder to run that family farm, or pile on regulations so as to take over control of operation of it.
- 'Mediocre' For All - hello, death panels.
- Easy citizenship for Dreamers - a new generation of citizens beholden to the state for their continued presence here.

Beyond all that, if benefits can be issued they can also be withheld. Recall the 'No Trespassing' signs at NPS facilities during the budget sequester. Extrapolate to any and all funds, goods and services provided by the state.

J. Farmer said...

@Ken B:

You do realize the former eastern bloc successes are all strongly anti socialist, right?,

Depends on what you mean by "socialist," but that is besides the point. David's claim was, "Objectively post Ww2 “right wing” dictators a la Franco, Salazar, Pinochet etc have led to better outcomes than left wing dictators a la Castro, Ortega, mugabe, etc etc." That is not true. Some countries have had better outcomes, and some have had worse.

J. Farmer said...

@Aunty Trump:

This nation was settled originally by Puritans. Still they show up, long since the witch trials ended.

It was settled partly by Puritans. But also by Cavaliers, Quakers, and Scotch-Irish. See David Fischer's Albion's Seed.

tcrosse said...

This nation was settled originally by Puritans.

Also by German and Central European refugees from the failed 1848 revolutions.

J. Farmer said...

Also by German and Central European refugees from the failed 1848 revolutions.

Well, to be pedantic (who? me?) those who came after 1848 would not have been settlers but immigrants.

Ken B said...

I don’t watch or listen to Rogan, but I have seen clips over the years. He seems a decent person. Of course “transphobe” is just the latest made up maumau tactic. Twitter is a kakistocracy. So is the Left in general.

Still,disappointed to see Rogan endorse Sanders. The history of the Left is chock full of decent, principled anti communists. Sanders is a disgrace to even the hard left.

wild chicken said...

So, Bernie's consistent.

That's enough for your vote, Joe?

You know who else was "consistent"?

HITLER

tcrosse said...

Well, to be pedantic (who? me?) those who came after 1848 would not have been settlers but immigrants.

Not to be pedantic, but the places in the Midwest where these people went were unsettled (by white people) at the time. So they were settlers, or at least that's what the Sioux thought of them.

J. Farmer said...

@tcrosse:

Not to be pedantic, but the places in the Midwest where these people went were unsettled (by white people) at the time. So they were settlers, or at least that's what the Sioux thought of them.

That's a fair point. Though at least half of German immigrants in the 19th century settled in cities like Chicago and Milwaukee. Still I think "immigrant" is a better descriptor than "settler." These lands were still under the jurisdiction of the US, even if they had not been granted formal statehood. The Germans left Germany; they did not come to the US to bring Germany here.

tcrosse said...

The Germans left Germany; they did not come to the US to bring Germany here.

Which is exactly what they did in places like New Ulm. MN, New Braunfels, TX, Watertown, WI, and even Milwaukee.

J. Farmer said...

The Human Rights Council (HRC), a Democratic Party fundraising machine masquerading as a gay rights organization, released a statement on Rogan's endorsement:

"Rogan, however, has attacked transgender people, gay men, women, people of color and countless marginalized groups at every opportunity."

Attacked? Countless? Every opportunity? What the fuck is this guy talking about?

"Further, Rogan's vicious rhetoric has dehumanized transgender people by misgendering them and promoting misinformation."

Vicious? It is dehumanizing to call a man a man? And "promoting misinformation" is newspeak for failing to tow the party line.

"In 2019, 25 transgender and gender non-confirming people were killed because of the type of transphobia that Rogan stokes."

I wonder how many of those cases involved drug dealing or turning tricks. Needless to say, I'm willing to be none of the offenders of those 25 homicides were influenced by, or even regularly listen to, Joe Rogan. This is just a disgusting attempt to step on dead bodies to make a political point.

"We should always be willing to educate individuals who operate from a place of bias but we should not directly or indirectly validate or celebrate them."

You see, you did not come to your opinion rationally and honestly. You "operate from a place of bias" (who doesn't?). Be willing to "educate" but be sure not to "validate" them. Gee, that's not condescending at all. And weren't we just complaining about dehumanizing.

"Given Rogan’s comments, it is disappointing that the Sanders campaign has accepted and promoted the endorsement. The Sanders campaign must reconsider this endorsement and the decision to publicize the views of someone who has consistently attacked and dehumanized marginalized people."

I bet HRC has phrases like "consistently attacked and dehumanized marginalized people" hot keyed. Gays have pretty much won the culture wars and bestride western civilization like a colossus, but we are "marginalized people." Of course, the HRC's very existence relies on gays continuing to believe that. After all, if we weren't marginalized, why would we need the HRC in the first place? Pro-tip: we don't.

J. Farmer said...

Which is exactly what they did in places like New Ulm. MN, New Braunfels, TX, Watertown, WI, and even Milwaukee.

Sure. But the existence of Chinatowns don't make those Chinese settlers. They were immigrants.

tcrosse said...

The places I named (except Milwaukee) did not exist until the Germans settled them. Or is it that only east coast Anglophones can be settlers?

J. Farmer said...

The places I named (except Milwaukee) did not exist until the Germans settled them. Or is it that only east coast Anglophones can be settlers?

We may be talking past each other here. You certainly dot have to be Anglophone to be a settler. The German immigrants to Pennsylvania in the late 16th century, for example, could reasonably be described as settlers. I am not talking about simply founding a city or populating a sparse area. The immigrants of the 19th century, though, left one state to move to another. I don't mean to belabor this point except that the crucial distinction between settlers and immigrants is the key to understanding the lie that we are a "nation of immigrants." We're not. We're a nation of settlers.

President Toilet Paper Shoe's Cooked-Up Drug Deal said...

"The Nordic-style system works because it is Nordic."

And Nordic people apparently treat each other (and others in general) well. They don't see virtue in letting 10% of their populations (or communities in America) go without health coverage or social networks and support or dying in mass shootings.

But in America, we have a lot of immoral people calling themselves "conservatives" who have such a strong need to label people as "winners" or "losers" that the country is intentionally run such in a way as to inflict cruelty on the unfortunate and shower adulation on the lucky ones. How else to explain going 2 trillion into excess debt so that the wealthiest few could get greater tax breaks? You can't.

So you could say that the American-style system doesn't work because it is run by Americans. Conservative Americans. Old, rich, white, greedy, boring, sausage party conservative Americans. The kind who could have never founded Washington's country.

"Scandinavian economist: "In Scandinavia we have no poverty."

U.S. Economist Milton Friedman: "That's interesting, because in America among Scandinavians, we have no poverty either.""


See above. Your racism dies hard. I guess it's a cultural failing of yours to view things as you do. You should try being less inhuman sometime.

But I don't want to tell you what to do.

President Toilet Paper Shoe's Cooked-Up Drug Deal said...

I don't mean to belabor this point except that the crucial distinction between settlers and immigrants is the key to understanding the lie that we are a "nation of immigrants." We're not. We're a nation of settlers.

Right, whatever that nonsense means. Trump's grandad "settled" brothels in Alaska. And lord knows what Kushner and Mnuchin and the cabinet's other grifters settled. Perdue? He "settled" factory farms. What a pioneer. Luxury real estate "settlers."

DeVos? She can't even settle a lawsuit. How many times has that daughter of an industrialist (an agrarian avocation if there ever was one) been held in contempt?

Fernandistein said...

"In 2019, 25 transgender and gender non-confirming people were killed because of the type of transphobia that Rogan stokes."

I wonder how many of those cases involved drug dealing or turning tricks.


"In fact, the transgender murder rate is far lower than the murder rates for African Americans, poor Americans of all races, and “men” in general. Further, most murders of trans persons are same-race domestic or personal disputes, not hate crimes."

He shows the arithmetic.

"The conservative writer Chad Greene, himself a member of the LGBT community, recently reviewed a sample of 118 of the cases of anti-trans homicide compiled by the Human Rights Campaign. His conclusion: exactly four of the perpetrators were clearly motivated by “anti-trans bias,” animus, or hatred.
...
According to Greene, whose conclusions align with my own analysis, 34 of the 37 identified murderers of black trans persons killed between 2015 and 2019 (89.5 per cent) are themselves black."

President Toilet Paper Shoe's Cooked-Up Drug Deal said...

...the easiest way to get Trump on your side is to flatter and praise him. Trump seems to be a shockingly insecure man.

Ya think?

And yet, the right loves it. Laps it all up.

I think they must identify with his insecurity.

Quaestor said...

I think I'll probably vote for Bernie... He’s been insanely consistent his entire life.

Translation: Sanders has learned nothing and forgotten nothing. As a Red Diaper Baby, he has forgotten nothing his Stalinist parents drilling into his nascent brain. As a fellow-traveling adult tourist Sanders failed to learn the fundamental facts about the Moscow subway.

Rogan shouldn't worry about butt-hurt SJWs and their moronic tweets. Transphobia is a fake label derived from absurd claims made by clinically dysfunctional people about fake biology. Forget it, Joe. It's Crazytown.

What Rogan should be concerned about is Sander's history of Gulag Denial.

President Toilet Paper Shoe's Cooked-Up Drug Deal said...

Which of Sanders' major policy agendas do you think are at odds with New Deal liberalism? Recall that the New Deal and FDR were attacked in virtually the same terms.

On this, you are entirely correct.

Economic guarantees are not rights. Period. It's thinking like that has gotten every Western-democracy with unfunded liabilities and obligations - forever with no sunsets - into their current mess.

PROSPERITY IS AN ASPRIATION. NOT A RIGHT.


Who gets to define what is "prosperity?"

Who defines what is "economic," let alone an "economic guarantee?"

Does the constitution's guarantee of your right to legal representation not affect you economically? Or do you know of ways to prosper as much in prison as some people do on the outside?

The first bills mandating purchases (of health insurance as well as arms, you might be interested to know) date back to the founders' generation. Apparently they were progressive and you are just not really as much of a true American as you would like to think you are.

Any other red communist socialist things the founders' generation favored and had no problem with that you would like to pretend is less American than you pretend to be? Where did this foreign thought process of yours originate and why are you inflicting this ugly pathogenic antisocial virus on our beautiful, progressive and truly American cooperative cultural heritage?

If you want to know why we fail to impress as a nation it's because people like you refuse to see great numbers of your fellow Americans as part of the nation. It's people like you who keep us from being a nation.

Amadeus 48 said...

Identity politics are a bore, and they obliterate the achievements of individuals using the most reductive sort of analysis. Identity politics are the reverse side of ethnic jokes: they uses the same material, but try to take it seriously.

At best, ethnic jokes might be funny, but the identity politics are always depraved.

chickelit said...

J. Farmer: I don't mean to belabor this point except that the crucial distinction between settlers and immigrants is the key to understanding the lie that we are a "nation of immigrants." We're not. We're a nation of settlers.

Back in my time in grade school, they used to teach us the difference between immigrants and emmigrants. "Emmigrants" were people who moved around within the national boundaries. I have a number of "settlers" in my own family background: families who homesteaded Wisconsin soon after it was safe for white people to do so. They did the heavy lifting of clearly land for farming, starting towns, etc. That phase certainly didn't last for more than a generation or two before the frontier moved westward. Then the places already "settled" backfilled with emmigrants from eastern states, while real immigrants filled the larger cities. Wisconsin was a patchwork of ethnic identities at one time -- something which has largely disappeared.

chickelit said...

I voted for Sanders in the 2016 CA primary -- mainly because I detested Hillary that much and because I was allowed to do so as a registered non partisan voter. I couldn't vote for Trump in that primary because I wasn't a registered Republican. Now that I am a registered Republican -- after being a lifelong Democrat -- I will be free to vote Trump in the primary and general -- not that my vote will count at all.

rightguy said...

Bernie has pocketed millions the last few years but I guess its in his wife's name :

“Bernie over the course of his 30-plus years in public office has final huge sums of money to his family. that includes hiring family members even when it was not justified in the burlington city governments. but more specifically, the 2016 campaign, there was this mysterious media-buying company called old town media that was set up.”

“they funneled $83 million through this media-buying company, which was located in a house on a cul-de-sac in suburban virginia,” he proceeded. “had no website, had no presence whatsoever. that company was run by two of bernie sanders’ wife’s friends. when she was asked about her connection or relationship to that firm, she hung up on a local vermont reporter. so there are various ways taxpayer money, school money other things that have flowed to the family and have made the sanders family very very wealthy.”
as per Peter Schwiezer