That Soleimani killing shook up the regularly scheduled break from the news, but the break provided a space within which to be unpredictable, and I read it in Bloomberg News: "U.S. Killing of Soleimani Leaves Trump 'Totally Unpredictable.'"
That is, I observe, a prediction. That gives Trump the power to be unpredictable by being predictable. If he does the most obvious thing now, it should take people by surprise — if it's actually true that he's totally unpredictable.
The quote at Bloomberg is:
“The Americans are now totally unpredictable,” Gerard Araud, a former French ambassador to the U.S. and the United Nations, said in an interview. “There was no response to Iranian attacks against oil tankers, a U.S. drone and Saudi oil fields, but out of the blue comes this surprising hit on Soleimani. We are depending on the unpredictable reaction of one man.”Is that bad in war? I can't even tell whether Araud thinks it's bad. I certainly hope that the threat to hit Iranian cultural sites is merely a bluff. At first, I wanted to think he didn't really say that, but here's Maggie Haberman at the NYT:
Aboard Air Force One on his way back from his holiday trip to Florida, Mr. Trump reiterated to reporters the spirit of a Twitter post on Saturday, when he said the United States government had identified 52 sites for retaliation against Iran if there were a response to Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani’s death. Some, he tweeted, were of “cultural” significance....
“They’re allowed to kill our people. They’re allowed to torture and maim our people. They’re allowed to use roadside bombs and blow up our people,” the president said. “And we’re not allowed to touch their cultural site? It doesn’t work that way.”
Posts
469 comments:
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They can be replaced with turquoise beads and Navaho blankets.
It ain't over yet! You don't celebrate 3 Kings Day in the US? Savages
out of the blue
Really? Does this clown not read the news? Did he not hear about the attack on the US embassy? Does he not know there is a history with Iran and US embassies?
Patton said it best (in the movie, anyway)
Lt. Col. Charles R. Codman: You know General, sometimes the men don't know when you're acting.
Patton: It's not important for them to know. It's only important for me to know.
I'd target every mosque in Iran, starting with the ones that the mullahs in charge use.
tds said...
It ain't over yet! You don't celebrate 3 Kings Day in the US? Savages
On the actual feast of the assumption, no less...
’I certainly hope that the threat to hit Iranian cultural sites is merely a bluff.’
I’m not at all bothered by the mention of their ‘cultural site’. I think it’s a threat that a retaliation will cause tremendous pain in myriad arenas. As it should.
No use putting stuff in mosques for safekeeping.
Totally unpredictable means not following advice from the swamp.
Trump's making a deal.
Strategic uncertainty is a force multiplier. The defender cannot defend everything, spreads himself thin, chases shadows and rumors. His followers are disquieted, exhausted. Their own imaginings become a weapon against themselves.
Trump has played this game his whole life. He’s like a quantum cloud. A tireless hurricane of bullshit and head-fakes, probes and feints, that force his adversary to follow the stutter-step and trash-talk, burning resource and teaching Trump where to hit next.
Read up on the OODA Loop. Trump is John Boyd’s brother-in-arms.
Cultural sites = Inside your borders.
I'd assumed any retaliation would take place outside of Iran's borders.
Some people think that the best way to fight is to start by declaring a whole bunch of options are off the table. Maybe that's not the way to obtain leverage.
I see that nobody is advising IranianMullahs to simply surrender to Trump!
tds: It ain't over yet! You don't celebrate 3 Kings Day in the US? Savages
Yes, we do. Last night Twelfth Night. Today Three Kings Day, sending off the season.
Some of us, anyway. The non-savages.
Trump is defending US personnel and territory. He called off a strike in response to the drone shoot down. He did not want to kill a bunch of people because of a piece of equipment.
Why didn’t the nations whose ships were attacked respond? Why didn’t Saudi Arabia? If it required a multinational response, why didn’t France lead it?
Some things in life should be predictable. The weather. When the sun rises. It does not bother me one iota that the President's actions vis-a-vis a sworn enemy against this country are not predictable. Why should they be?
Feast of the Epiphany.
TDS,
Perhaps in the upper 50 they don't know what they're doing. We certainly celebrate the Reyes ("Reyex" now?) in the southern us.
Just put a turkey to cook, my wife made guineitos in escabeche (boiled green bananas with a bunch of other stuff). Kids and grandkids are coming over later to get their presents and will bring the rice and beans. We have tembleque, flan and arroz con dulce on tap.
Yum, yum!
(I feel like grandpa jones)
Might even get some drummers drumming, though I doubt we'll muster 12 of them.
Where are you? Not many other places celebrate 3 kings other than as a religious day.
People should internalize that attacking a building or statue is less barbaric than attacking any person. If all the buildings are knocked down, the culture still exists because it's carried by the people who are still alive.
MartyH said...
He did not want to kill a bunch of people because of a piece of equipment.
And not even our (usa) equipment.
John Henry
Not all cultures are equal. No sane person can dispute that because every society has a culture, the two go hand in hand.
Here's a significant cultural site as it looked in 1938. Here it is today. Largely a ruin, is it not? Some Germans want the ruin to be bulldozed into oblivion. Others want it to remain as a shameful reminder of a wicked past. A few would be delighted by a restoration to its former "glory". Those few need medication and custodial care, one might surmise.
Here's another culturally significant thing. It's the antechamber to Hitler's officer in the National Socialist Reichskanzlei designed by Albert Speer, who also designed the Nazi rally stadium referenced above. Speer was an accomplished architect before he was Hilter's pet. He did culturally significant stuff. The Russians bulldozed the whole thing. Nobody complained, nor should have.
Nothing made by Man has no cultural significance, including the pizza box I just dropped into my rollout trash bin.
Re: Cultural Sites...
Blowing up a revered mosque because it's a revered mosque would be bad. (Among other things, it would alienate Iranians who aren't currently anti-American, so it's bad tactics.)
Blowing up a mosque that's being used as a military headquarters by terrorists because they think the minarets make them invulnerable wouldn't necessarily be bad.
Remember that the same moral principle that puts "cultural sites" off limits does the same for embassies. An eye for an eye isn't always a good idea, but tit-for-tat is still the best strategy anyone's come up with in the iterated prisoner's dilemma.
Ann, you made American Thinker again....3rd paragraph from the bottom!! https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/01/festering_trump_hatred_leads_one_comedian_to_cross_the_line.html
Don't you listen to your husband and the other commenters on your blog? Trump never threatened to attack cultural sites. That is a lie promulgated by liars and deluded lefties.
No use putting stuff in mosques for safekeeping.
This is it. Oftentimes that stuff is high ranking military targets.
narayanan said...
"I see that nobody is advising IranianMullahs to simply surrender to Trump!"
Yes but in fairness, secretary of defense Mark Esper, immediately after the droning, told Iran it needs to become a normal country.
Remember that the same moral principle that puts "cultural sites" off limits does the same for embassies. An eye for an eye isn't always a good idea, but tit-for-tat is still the best strategy anyone's come up with in the iterated prisoner's dilemma.
It is not a moral dilemma, it is a legal requirement in U.S. and International law.
’Trump never threatened to attack cultural sites.’
I finally agree with Freder!!
If I had a nickel for every time Maggie Haberman said Trump said something he didn't say, or said Trump said something that was the exact opposite of what Maggie said he said..
She should stick to posting photos of empty seats at Trump rallies 2 hours before the rally starts. She's good at it.
Remember Guernicia. The whole world condemned that act of unimaginable barbarity. Who do such a thing as to bomb civilians. Picasso's greatest painting memorialized that atrocity. Then came Dresden and Hiroshima. We have evolving standards as to what is permissible in war.
araud, was one those who was a party to the 150 billion dollar jizda to the mullahs, so of course he pretends not to know, iran was the ones who sent Khomeini into the world in 1979, the ones who prevented the us from taking a shot against mugniyeh in 1996, who provided saddam with tammuz 16 reactor which the Israelis had to blow up in 1981, framatome provided iran's original reactors in the 70s,
Are any of our sensitive lefties still losing sleep over the cultural sites in Dresden, Cologne, Nagasaki, or Hiroshima? Or is it okay when a democrat president actually obliterates such things, but bad when Trump merely discusses something similar?
The king called up his jet fighters
"He said you better earn your pay
Drop your bombs between the minarets
Down the Casbah way"
The Mullahs don't like it
Rock the Casbah, rock the Casbah
The Mullahs don't like it
Rock the Casbah, rock the Casbah
The Clash (FIFThem)
Hey Freder, let us know when Trump targets and hits one of the 22 cultural UNESCO World Heritage Sites within Iran's borders. And no, the cultural site of what's left of Qassim Suleimani's ring finger does not count.
We'll really impeach him for sure then.
The Iranians are so surprised by the unpredictable Trump that they are considering sending him plane loads of cash to get a peace deal.
Blowing up a revered mosque because it's a revered mosque would be bad. (Among other things, it would alienate Iranians who aren't currently anti-American, so it's bad tactics.)
Not so sure. Mosque attendance in Iran was at 2 % last I read about it. The mullahs may be there and there might be a nuclear reactor. In Gaza most of the missile site are under schools and hospitals. Hezbollah and Hamas routinely do this.
the founder of the clash, grew up in morocco, hence the perspective, of this rather prescient song, as Freddie mercury, was born in Zanzibar, hence his use of Arabic terms in 'bohemian rhapsody'
There are pros and cons to the killing of Suleimani. The Iranians will find a replacement. He'll be just as vicious, but maybe he won't be as skilled and, for sure, he won't have the charisma and reputation. That's all to the good, but maybe a dumber terrorist will commit a dumber atrocity.... I suppose the mullahs will have to respond, but they're not the only homicidal maniacs in town. You have to use different bargaining tactics with a homicidal maniac than you do with someone who wants to strike a deal. Maybe Trump's rhetoric will inhibit their response. Maybe not. The future will happen.
Are any of our sensitive lefties still losing sleep over the cultural sites in Dresden, Cologne, Nagasaki, or Hiroshima?
Which is precisely the reason the Geneva Conventions were amended after the war to make indiscriminate bombing a war crime.
Isfahan's golden dome, as I pointed out last night, I'm sure there are other sites near arak and natanz,
Iran has routinely destroyed non-Islamic cultural sites within Iran's borders since 1979. And I don't mean ISIS or Al Qaeda within Iran doing it. I mean the Iranian government. And they didn't do it in retaliation for anything, but just to be assholes.
I'll give a shit about people screaming "Trump can't do that, it's illegal!" when anyone anywhere holds Iran responsible for destroying their *own* cultural sites.
"There was no response to Iranian attacks against oil tankers, a U.S. drone and Saudi oil fields, but out of the blue comes this surprising hit on Soleimani."
So says Gerard Araud, a former French ambassador. FORMER ambassador, Gerry. You ain't on the consultation list anymore. If it was "out of the blue" it was because you're either too stupid or too lazy (being French it's like to be and rather than or) to keep abreast of things you feel concerned about.
That Bloomberg interview made my blood boil. The French have perfected arrogance to a high art, which is richly comical given the dearth of things the French have a right to be arrogant about. Some late development news for Monsieur Araud:
1. Napoleon is dead. (And he wasn't even French.)
2. In spite of that parade down the Champs-Élysées, WE, the Americans, liberated Paris. We just allowed you to pretend otherwise to prevent a Gallic tantrum.
3. Since the war, your arrogance has tended to center on your wine and cheese. What a laugh. Even Oz out wines you nowadays. And WE, the Americans, just kicked your cheesy asses in the latest international competition. France came in -- what? remind us, now -- 17th?!!
Trump has figured it out. Asymmetric warfare only works for the weaker nation when the stronger nation limits itself to proportionate responses. So Trump is threatening to destroy everything from Iran's oil fields to Twelve Imam's well site, which is like the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem is to Christians.
"Totally unpredictable means not following advice from the swamp."
Correct.
Obama was also unpredictable when he sent pallet-loads of cash to the Iranians. It was predictable that he'd lie about doing it. And it was predictable that he'd get blank stares, followed by nodding approval from our media and academic class. But the actual act was so far off the radar and so wrong-headed it was completely unforeseen.
I mean- who would have thought that sending cash to killers in return for a promise to stop killing would work? That Obama...our unpredictable shining star.
I will grant you they did retaliate strongly for the attack on their facilities in Beirut in 1983, something the us did not do, against that I balance their part in the oil for palaces programs that benefited the likes of the late Charles pasqua, sac operative, associate of his paisan venturi in the absinthe business,
Which is precisely the reason the Geneva Conventions were amended after the war to make indiscriminate bombing a war crime.
Suppose we drone that well the 12th Iman is supposedly hiding in and hit only the well. How is that indiscriminate?
I see Trump's actions as intended to get others to stop Iran. Trump wants French foreign advisors to think he is unpredictable and to convey that plus the threat to hit cultural sites to Iran. Trump's not going to send over a pallet of cash like the other guy.
’Which is precisely the reason the Geneva Conventions were amended after the war to make indiscriminate bombing a war crime.’
Carefully avoiding malum in se. Clever.
france is a minor player here,
http://www.iran.org/tib/krt/fanning_ch8.htm
So Trump is threatening to destroy everything from Iran's oil fields to Twelve Imam's well site, which is like the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem is to Christians.
Except much more comical.
"It doesn’t work that way.”
Probably going to become my favorite Donald Trump quote.
"But it always used to! What changed?!?"
they didn't capture his rejoinder to Wallace's foolish query
https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/476838-pompeo-defends-soleimani-strike-as-critics-question-intel-timing
I'll retype what I posted yesterday, more or less:
The Pentagon is clearly a proper military target.
The Pentagon is a cultural site.
Will anybody take a run at explaining how that's wrong?
Chugberry, strawberry, cranberry, and dingleberry baby
Awesome pie, teddy pie, moon pie, and popeye
James Brown, big around, on the ground with Ron Fountmore
... you silly savage
I am hereby designating the mind and body of Donald Trump a Cultural Site with important cultural significance for me and my fellow Americans who elected him to be our president and commander in chief. Chuck, Freder... STOP ATTACKING OUR CULTURAL SITE YOU WAR CRIMINALS.
The House of Representatives will introduce and vote on a war powers resolution this week to limit President Donald Trump’s military actions regarding Iran, according to Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
In a letter to colleagues Sunday, Pelosi said the resolution is similar to one introduced in the Senate by Democratic Sen. Tim Kaine of Virginia.
“It reasserts Congress’s long-established oversight responsibilities by mandating that if no further Congressional action is taken, the Administration’s military hostilities with regard to Iran cease within 30 days,” she said.
Quaestor said...
Suppose we drone that well the 12th Iman is supposedly hiding in and hit only the well. How is that indiscriminate?
______________+++++++++++++++++
what if a pig flew into the well ==>>> such things can happen
Some President did something.
Hey, progs, which is it: Trump is predictably leading us to doom, or Trump is unpredictably leading us to doom?
well not surprising as clem, paid tribute to the grand poobah of the national Islamic trust
https://unitedwithisrael.org/french-organization-supports-terrorism-and-bds-under-guise-of-agricultural-work/
'Lucille bluth;, should recall how she visited assad when he was permitting those who would become Islamic state and nusra front, attack coalition forces,
’The House of Representatives will introduce and vote on a war powers resolution this week to limit President Donald Trump’s military actions regarding Iran, according to Speaker Nancy Pelosi.’
Siding with our terrorist enemies is tight!!
moon pie, and popeye
"Copeland reopened the restaurant four days later as Popeyes Mighty Good Chicken."
That's 3,102 cultural sites right there.
This one is so simple only a Democrat could get it wrong. If there are militarily valuable targets that have been placed close to culturally significant sites by the theocrats, then it will be. Just. Too. Bad.
btw, france made a deal with said organization after carlos bombed paris, to free his associate ani naccache, and his girlfriend Magdalena kopp, in the 80s, this in part why it took till 1994 when the former had to hunker down in khartroum, where the station chief was cofer black, last of burisma,
This Saturday, John Kerry was photographed meeting with 3 Iranians at a cafe in Paris.
The Iranians each had their own security detail.
That's right, Big Mike. Perfectly put.
correction on the earlier point,
https://intelnews.org/2019/08/12/01-2606/
when you read the news without the place cards, it get's confusing,
Role of US troops in Iraq
Caroline Glick @CarolineGlick
Caroline Glick Retweeted Lee Smith
I won't weigh in on US deployment in Iraq but I agree with @LeeSmithDC on the duties of these forces. Their current mission is to protect Iraq's Iranian controlled govt,
______________+++++++++++++++++++
By Iraqis allowing Solaimani to land without notifying US commander was breach of duty and endangerment!
"I certainly hope that the threat to hit Iranian cultural sites is merely a bluff."
I wish the Democratics trying to erase American cultural sites were bluffing, but they are serious and succeeding. Maybe Trump is reading Althouse and her commentator Chuck, so he figures after Charlottesville destroying cultural sites is a good thing, not racist or homophobic or anti-Semitic but indeed Trumply progressive?
this is what's it's come down to, but the flip side, is that piece of dirt called the green zone was secured with the blood and shattered limbs of American and other coalition forces, against the contributions French nationals like the koachis (remember them) did to the butcher's bill,
“Some people think that the best way to fight is to start by declaring a whole bunch of options are off the table. Maybe that's not the way to obtain leverage.”
The Left’s clueless befuddlement regarding Trump in a nutshell. Crazy mofo will even campaign in Wisconsin.
a reminder,
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/01/france-declares-its-own-war-on-terror/384409/
Oh boy, another thread where the Trump ass lickers get together and see how much they can outdo each other in their blustering bullshit. Let's bomb this! No, let's bomb that! Fuck, let's bomb it all! You know a strategy we haven't tried in the middle east before? Bombing places.
I suppose you guys know what's really at the bottom of the Jamkaran well.
Hey, good lookin'! We'll be back to pick you up later!"
Big Mike: "This one is so simple only a Democrat could get it wrong. If there are militarily valuable targets that have been placed close to culturally significant sites by the theocrats, then it will be. Just. Too. Bad."
Placing military forces and equipment in places that purposely endanger innocents is standard practice for LLR-lefty Chuck's islamic terrorist allies.
"This Saturday, John Kerry was photographed meeting with 3 Iranians at a cafe in Paris."
That fucking piece of shit has spent his entire life weakening the US, usually by meeting with our enemies in Paris.
no we're pointing out the hypocrisy of the fatuous French, and the pusilaninous Pelosi, ironically the French security services were the ones who suppressed the grand mosque siege by juhayman al otaibi, the self proclaimed mahdi, which the royals then proceeded to surrender to the imam's anyways,
I wonder why few people find it odd that Iran has so much support in Iraq.
So, to recap, our democratics and LLR-lefties now officially support the drug cartels, MS13, the North Korean regime AND the islamic supremacist global terrorist leaders of Iran.
There's probably an election ad or 2 that can be ginned up for that.
Yeah, killing people is OK, but don't touch that cultural site! How many people here would give their life for the Washington Monument?
Thought so.
they also let prince nayef al shaalan, go when he tried to ship a ton of coke through Charles degaulle airport around 2000, in conjunction with a Colombian trafficker, this was before 9/11
“It reasserts Congress’s long-established oversight responsibilities by mandating that if no further Congressional action is taken, the Administration’s military hostilities with regard to Iran cease within 30 days,”
_____________+++++++++++++++++++
I could say === Good to see Rule of Law returning to USA.
but This would be unilateral ceasefire and Iran has not been invited to sign on.
I had commented earlier - I see that nobody is advising IranianMullahs to simply surrender to TrumpUSA!
Pelosi would like to simply surrender to IranianMullahs and pray/ask for mercy
Blogger Guildofcannonballs said...
"I certainly hope that the threat to hit Iranian cultural sites is merely a bluff."
I wish the Democratics trying to erase American cultural sites were bluffing, but they are serious and succeeding
Nailed it!
Browndog: "I wonder why few people find it odd that Iran has so much support in Iraq."
Iran has even more support on the dem/LLR-left side here.
Trump thinks that since the Iranian leaders don't care about Joe Average Iranian getting killed, they may get more upset as Cultural site X getting destroyed. And he's probably right. I'm sure the NYT/WaPo would be more upset if Iranians destroyed a Chagall Painting then if 10 people from Kansas died.
another grey Connelly link, apparently saddam offered the shah to take Khomeini off his hands, but he relented and the rest is histoire, as they say,
Browndog said...
I wonder why few people find it odd that Iran has so much support in Iraq
That's why Boy Bush invading Iraq and the death of their strongman, Saddam Hussein was the start of Iran doing what it wants in Iraq. This would have never happened if Saddam was still in charge.
@Quaestor:
There's bullshit and pouncy bullshit.
Framer, are you a ponce?
Ouch! You really devastated me there. Hope I can find the strength to carry on. Oh, how utterly predictable (and lame).
I forgot all those Trump rallies where he promised a vote for Trump would mean more troops in Afghanistan, more troops in Iraq, more troops in Saudi Arabia, more troops in Syria. All of the other GOP candidates were promising to end our wars in the middle east but Trump was promising to escalate them all. That's why we voted for him, right? We wouldn't to get even more drawn into quagmires and open-ended military commitments in the middle east. Oh...wait.
narayanan: "Pelosi would like to simply surrender to IranianMullahs and pray/ask for mercy"
Something tells me Irans threat to go public with who they bribed for the hoax Iran "deal" is a strong reason for the dems/LLR's open alliance with the mad mullahs.
why did Giscard d'Estaing, take Khomeini originally from najaf, it was a codicil of the treaty between the Baathists and the shah, that the former broke when he crossed the shatt al arab in 1980
Farmer: "We wouldn't to get even more drawn into quagmires and open-ended military commitments in the middle east. Oh...wait."
How are things going at the Iranian Front? Are we within sight of Tehran yet?
Dont leave us hanging.
Meade said...
I am hereby designating the mind and body of Donald Trump a Cultural Site with important cultural significance for me and my fellow Americans who elected him to be our president and commander in chief. Chuck, Freder... STOP ATTACKING OUR CULTURAL SITE YOU WAR CRIMINALS.
This made me realize; as of last Wednesday, Trump isn't Just a Cultural Site....
He is a Presidential Candidate...
As we All KNOW; it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL to :
Investigate
Charge
Try
Convict
...or
punish
a Presidential Candidate, for ANY CRIMES, or Misdemeanors....
Right? I mean RIGHT?
So, the Impeachment is Off.
Any attempt at continuing the Impeachment process would be an IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE
right? I mean, RIGHT ???
Quagmires - drink!!
The President is pitch perfect in his response to Iran.
Chuck, Freder... STOP ATTACKING OUR CULTURAL SITE YOU WAR CRIMINALS.
Because words and bombs are exactly the same.
Something tells me Irans threat to go public with who they bribed for the hoax Iran "deal" is a strong reason for the dems/LLR's open alliance with the mad mullahs.
Bingo! China also has a list.
I forgot all those Trump rallies where he promised a vote for Trump would mean more troops in Afghanistan, more troops in Iraq, more troops in Saudi Arabia, more troops in Syria.
Daddy, Are we there yet ?
That's why we voted for him, right? We wouldn't to get even more drawn into quagmires and open-ended military commitments in the middle east. Oh...wait.
Yep. Ponce.
William said...
Then came Dresden and Hiroshima. We have evolving standards as to what
Why does nobody ever mention the march 1945 firebombing of Tokyo?
More died there, in a single raid, than Hiroshima and Dresden combined.
John Henry
Who defines cultural sites?
The United Nations says only 22 in Iran?
Seems low; maybe not too much culture there.
Iranians might find 100,000,000 or so.
I declare the ground underneath every US service member hallowed.
@Quaestor:
Yep. Ponce.
Would you spit Trump's dick out for a second. I'm beginning to confuse you for a Slovenian bimbo.
J farmer sarcastically said...
I forgot all those Trump rallies where he promised a vote for Trump would mean more troops in Afghanistan, more troops in Iraq, more troops in Saudi Arabia, more troops in Syria.
how much HAS he raised troop strength in those countries?
i mean, we haven't pulled out, yet; but how much DID he increase?
you make it sound like he's escalating troop levels; is he?
Daddy, Are we there yet ?
Oh, the Republican voter. The battered women of the American political scene. No matter how much the GOP sells you out and spits in your face, you always just keep smiling and asking for more.
Big Mike said...
This one is so simple only a Democrat could get it wrong. If there are militarily valuable targets that have been placed close to culturally significant sites by the theocrats, then it will be. Just. Too. Bad.
Oh there you go. Inventing stuff to make Trump appear less crazed, and less stupid. I want Trump to explain this mess. Let Trump clarify himself in a press conference with reporters asking questions.
Mike Pompeo didn't elide this distinction. Pompeo straight up lied, and claimed that Trump straight up did NOT suggest the targeting of cultural sites.
So step one is to get it straight about what Trump is actually suggesting. Ask every member of the Administration. Ask Trump every single time he dares step in front of a microphone. Haul them all in front of Congressional committees and get them under oath. And force them to be very specific about what policy is, on the targeting of cultural sites.
pointing out the little hypocrisies, we could address frau merkel, who has a similar tin ear another time,
In honor of J Farmer and his dick comments:
I declare all American penises cultural landmarks worthy of UN peacekeeper missions, whether overseas or domestic.
My cock demands satisfaction!
i love how Pelosi, who does nothing otherwise, is now attempting to be President of Foreign policy.
Cultural sites to Trump are casinos and golf courses
"...dares step in front of a microphone."
Silly.
but she almost always falls on the side of the Syrians then, and the qataris and the Iranians no, the former is a little inconvenient as the drone might have launched from al udeid air base, cent com east,
’Haul them all in front of Congressional committees and get them under oath.’
I think I heard a queef...
Just to be clear, my 9:05AM comment does not cover racist fopdoodles.
@gilbar:
you make it sound like he's escalating troop levels; is he?
Trump's Afghanistan Troop Surge is Complete, Raising Total Number of US Servicemen to 14,000
US to send troops to Saudi Arabia amid Iran tensions
Hundreds of U.S. Troops Leaving, and Also Arriving in, Syria
U.S. sending thousands of Fort Bragg troops to Middle East in response to Iran threat
“There was no response to attacks .... We are depending on the unpredictable reaction of one man.”
Consistent French cheese-eating surrender monkeys have no concept of “enough is enough.”
And who is the “we” here? The perfidious French have some dog in this hunt?
Perhaps add a "possibly" above. Estimates of deaths for all 3 bombings are all over the map.
Wikipedia says 100m for Tokyo but I've seen estimates as high as 250m
100m is around the total for dresden (25m) and hiroshima (75m).
Your Mileage may vary considerably on all 3 actual numbers are probably unknowable.
Whatever the numbers 3 things stand out about Tokyo:
Lots of civilian deaths
Lots of cultural destruction
Nobody EVER talks about it.
John Henry
yes, they took a bribe, probably several, sometime when they don't deal certain regimes send carlos or abu nidal, to settle accounts,
Kyoto was explicitly off the map of final targeting for it's cultural significance, also secretary stimson had honeymooned there in 1901 or thereabouts,
John Henry said...
Why does nobody ever mention the march 1945 firebombing of Tokyo?
More died there, in a single raid, than Hiroshima and Dresden combined.
i was bitching about this Yesterday. Any time, that ANYONE talks about firebombing; SOMEONE HAS TOO bring up "Dresden"
I'm assuming it is because people are REALLY Ignorant, and don't Know SHIT
The ONLY reason Hiroshima and Nagasaki still existed in Aug '45, is because the Pentagon told LeMay's 20th airforce that they had to leave them alone. By the end of June, the Only cities left in Japan, were the ones being saved for A-Bombs
"Totally unpredictable means not following advice from the swamp."
As I noted the other day, we saw this with the call with the Ukrainian President, that Trump got impeached for. The Obama Administration oft a bunch of their people embedded at the WH in the NSC. They are attempting to control foreign policy through control of the process. Pretty much every witness Schifty called as a witness in his basement star chamber hearings was one of these embeds, which is why he knew that they could be trusted. And one of the things that became obvious, besides their blatant disloyalty to their Constitutional leader, was that their main complaint was that Trump wasn’t letting them control foreign policy.
In the case of the military execution of the Quds commander, the NSC, for the most part, was intentionally cut out of the information and decision loop precisely because Trump and his inner circle knew that too many of its members were Obama loyalists, who would have leaked the plans in a heartbeat. Selling out to Iran was Obama’s signature foreign policy achievement, and Trump was about to destroy it with 4 thermobaric Hellfire missiles launched at the vehicles containing the Iranian terrorist mastermind and his entourage at the Baghdad airport. Of course one of them would leak. That is one of the reasons that they were left there embedded on the NSC.
With the fiasco of Schifty’s impeachment hearings, it became obvious that something needed to be done, and as a result, the NSC is currently being reorganized, and many of the Obama embeds are slated to be sent back to their hoe agencies and departments (can’t fire them, of course because they are mostly protected by Civil Service laws).
Consistent French cheese-eating surrender monkeys have no concept of “enough is enough.”
Yeah, I remember when Jonah Goldberg plucked that old Simpsons chestnut out in order to criticize the French for not joining the "Coalition of the Willing." Boy, Americans have short public memory.
J Farmer replied to me (thanx J), saying...
Trump's Afghanistan Troop Surge is Complete, Raising Total Number of US Servicemen to 14,000
Looks like that was 2017, Wikipedia says that they're back down to 5,200
J Farmer,
It is dishonest not to note that some of those links refer to the same troopers.
You don't give your argument more credibility that way.
Go back to dick insults where you have more natural ability.
such are the vagaries of statesmanship in the 20th century, the jibes about Parisian cowardice are a little forced, a plurality of Frenchmen didn't consider the blum govt legitimate, and they had seen a loss of a generation in Verdun and the somme, conversely they fought for 16 years in Indochina and Algeria,
they set the first articles of impeachment after Baghdadi got zapped no, the sand people do seem to have gotten antsy since then,
A good analysis of what happened when Trump made the decision.
I have this vision of an Obama Administration DoD embed doing death by power point trying to bore Pres. Trump to death.
Then Pres. Trump getting the “Kill Soleiman” slide in the presentation and stopping the briefing right there saying.
“That’s it! We’re going to kill Soleiman.
And then watching all the DoD/NSA/CIA/FBI Counter-intelligence courtiers putting on their best game faces as they collectively suck every seat cushion in the room into their as…sets.
Every single one of them thinking in their cold heart of hearts that while Pres. Trump had life time secret service protection. They and their families didn’t and faced a lifetime of looking over their shoulders for the Quds Force like the Captain of the CG-49 USS Vincennes who shot down Iran Air Flight 655 over the Persian Gulf.
It was President George H. W. Bush’s refusal to retaliate for the failed Mar 11, 1989 car bomb attack on Captain Will Rogers III’s wife that created the Quds Force immunity in the four presidencies between Reagan and Trump.
Trump just reoriented the Deep State's motivation. Now they have skin in the game. They need to get Iran out of the terror business.
Every President since George H. W. Bush to Obama has owed the D.C. “courtier class” getting there. Observing the Quds Force immunity was a small price for them to pay as President.
Donald Trump didn’t owe the “courtier class” jack getting into the Presidency. And the “courtier class” has been doing it’s best to sabotage his policies while in office. What Pres. Trump did with his decapitation drone strike on the Quds Force is put the entire DC “courtier class” in the same van that Captain Rogers wife was driving in 1989 for the rest of their lives.
Their lives, their fortunes their sacred as…sets are now all in for the institutional threat elimination solution to the Iranian Islamic Republic in exactly the same was the D.C. “courtier class” was all in for invading Iraq after the Senate Hart Office building anthrax attacks.
Fwiw, the "unpredictability" strategy wrt military ops was put forth back in the '16 primary.
’SOMEONE HAS TOO bring up "Dresden"
I'm assuming it is because people are REALLY Ignorant, and don't Know SHIT’
I mentioned Dresden because it was a gorgeous cultural site and its military target value was questionable, hence relevant to the discussion.
Another Blogger failure,
now their behavior in 1986 re the strike against kadaffi was less understandable,
I blame racism, Gilbar.
No progressive really gives a shit about burning 100m,give or take, Japanese alive.
Just to be clear, I don't either, as a moral issue. I don't give a shit about the million or so Germans the Allies killed in bombings either.
As a moral issue. I do question whether we should have been involved in a European war at all. I also wonder how effective strategic bombing was militarily.
John Henry
they had seen a loss of a generation in Verdun and the somme, conversely they fought for 16 years in Indochina and Algeria,
My opinion is that the thousands that died at Verdun were draftees and the Vietnam and Algeria forces were mostly the professional army.
@gilbar:
Looks like that was 2017, Wikipedia says that they're back down to 5,200
I have no idea the source of that 5,200 number. The most recent figures announced have suggested troop levels somewhere in the range of 12,000 to 13,000, and the administrations own negotiations with the Taliban have included keeping more than 8,000 troops in the country indefinitely.
Banned Commenter LLR-lefty Chuck: "Oh there you go. Inventing stuff to make Trump appear less crazed, and less stupid."
Ladies and gentlemen, LLR-lefty Chuck decides to go All In with islamic terrorist radicals do not place military assets in close proximity to sensitive sites.
Thats really an astonishing claim by LLR-lefty Chuck.
What this demonstrates is that in terms of islamic supremacist terrorist tactics denial, LLR-lefty Chuck is actually to the left of Rashid Tlaib, Omar and AOC.
Note to Chuck: when you find yourself to the far left of The Hate America Squad, you might want to go back and question your premises.
I suppose we could have put sanctions on Japan after Pearl Harbor.
"Oh boy, another thread where the Trump ass lickers get together and see how much they can outdo each other in their blustering bullshit. Let's bomb this! No, let's bomb that! Fuck, let's bomb it all! You know a strategy we haven't tried in the middle east before? Bombing places." - Farmer
All this work you have put in with your many many comments, and like Max Boot, it doesn't even seem to have made a difference! Us people would still rather lick Trump's ass than any part of you! What's wrong with us people and our stupid thoughts!
WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE JUST LISTEN TO AND PARROT FARMER!!!
Blogger rcocean said...
i love how Pelosi, who does nothing otherwise, is now attempting to be President of Foreign policy.
Wait until AOC steps in front of a microphone sometime today and implies Trump is not allowed to do anything without her personal approval.
point taken, but I like to take the long view of things, when motivated the French do fight, it's usually to hold some sub-Saharan satrap, which they don't use as a nuclear test site,
I suppose we could have put sanctions on Japan after Pearl Harbor.
It's always WWII somewhere! Someone's always the Japanese, something is always Pearl Harbor. Or if you prefer less Pacific metaphors, it's always Munich, someone's always Chamberlain, someone's always Hitler. Yada yada yada. Americans enjoy fabulous strategic advantage and security, but it's always so easy for the Establishment to get Americans pissing in their panties over some bullshit foreign threat thousands of miles away.
“The House of Representatives will introduce and vote on a war powers resolution this week to limit President Donald Trump’s military actions regarding Iran, according to Speaker Nancy Pelosi.”
That, and a quarter, won’t buy you a cup of coffee these days, though a buck (plus tax) will buy you a cup of coffee from McDonald’s, which is my partner’s favorite. She hasn’t eaten their food since she worked there as her first job almost 50 years ago, but my job almost every evening is to pick ca up two cups of their coffee for the next morning.
My point is that a House resolution has zero legal weight. It is only when the Senate concurs, and then the President signs the bill into law, or both Houses vote to override his veto. Of course, that doesn’t mean that the House won’t add another count of impeachment for Trump ignoring their legally frivolous resolution.
But what is going to be interesting is what happens over in the Senate. The Republicans appear to be planning to introduce their own resolution that would essentially affirm the President’s taking out the Iranian entourage. It would essentially be structured to embarrass the Senate Dems running for President.
chuck is less interesting then the latest edition of the dinghy, ahem dispatch
Isn't it at least relevant that the "cultural sites" the Left are so hot to protect belong to a culture that systematically destroys every last shred of evidence of any previous culture that existed in a given area prior to their gaining power?
Taking kid gloves to a culture that systematically destroys all other cultures wherever it gains ascendancy seems like a bad strategy for preserving culture. Unless you only care about the one.
“There was no response to Iranian attacks against oil tankers, a U.S. drone and Saudi oil fields, but out of the blue comes this surprising hit on Soleimani.--Dumb Frog
Oilfield equipment, fancy robot, DEAD AMERICAN and ATTACK ON US SOIL (embassy).
Dumb Frog can't distinguish.
Relax your sphincter, Farmer. I was responding to another comment.
Try decaf.
Althouse said...
I certainly hope that the threat to hit Iranian cultural sites is merely a bluff.
Actually, retaliation is the "threat", cultural sites are a "warning".
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump [Before the Soleimani strike]
...Iran will be held fully responsible for lives lost, or damage incurred, at any of our facilities. They will pay a very BIG PRICE! This is not a Warning, it is a Threat. Happy New Year!
John Henry, have you seen the Errol Morris documentary film featuring McNamara, the organization man behind the Tokyo fire bombing? Lefties love to slam the US for WWII war crimes, including speculation Japan was about to surrender when the US nuked them. I thought Slaughterhouse Five was a great example of anti war crime fiction. This topic has been discussed to death over my lifetime.
Michael K.'s Comment on revealing Iranian Bribery sounds to true, unfortunately.
Same thing was said in this blog post from The American Spectator this morning:
The Democrats’ Strange Reaction to the Death of Qassem Soleimani- Or maybe it’s not so strange, given the Obama crowd’s unending Iran Deal treachery.
And the Saudi Prince that was convicted in absentia for Drug Smuggling, it was for funding Jihadists. Saudi pressure squelched the investigation.
Cover Up to save Royal who smuggled cocaine
Islamists do have a history of using so called usually off limit sites, Hospitals in Gaza, Madrasas, ammo dumps next to civilians(Lebanon, Gaza) as way to deter attacks. And if one is attacked, they attempt to make that into something worse. It's a way to hamstring a Western or Israeli military by holding them up to one set of rules, while they play by another. Trump, as usual in a not very nice way that is messy, is attacking another Overton Window.
My gut feeling is Trump deliberately started the fight over Cultural Sites. He knows the so called politically acceptable rules of the US and Israel attacking them is bullshit, and hypocritical. And he knows by having this fight that he will win, he is showing his Media and Democratic opponents to be elite, out of touch fools, and anti American.
Alinsky Rules he is using:
Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.
Ridicule is man's most potent weapon.
Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.
"There was no response to Iranian attacks against oil tankers, a U.S. drone and Saudi oil fields, but out of the blue comes this surprising hit on Soleimani. We are depending on the unpredictable reaction of one man."
Not to be pedantic, but consider that Soleimani's gooification was the response to all of that which went before- not just what he was about to do.
@Guildofcannonballs:
All this work you have put in with your many many comments, and like Max Boot, it doesn't even seem to have made a difference! Us people would still rather lick Trump's ass than any part of you! What's wrong with us people and our stupid thoughts!
Much easier to outsource your thinking to State Department and DOD press releases. Just like good little subjects.
It's okay, Guild, I remember plenty of arrogant POS's like you in the run up to the Iraq War. It only took your kind of people about, oh, 13 years or so to realize how stupid and wrongheaded you were. Unfortunately it apparently did little to reduce your undeserved egos.
Read up on the OODA Loop. Trump is John Boyd’s brother-in-arms.
Excellent point. One of the best biographies I've ever read was on John Boyd. Fascinating man.
As to Trump and bombing the cultural locations inside Iran, I think that was a bluff, but executed perfectly. Similar to offering a property at too high of a price only to back down later. By staking out the position that nothing is off the table, it makes any more limited action a de-escalation. All while costing nothing.
One thing I haven't seen talked about in the media much about his "52 targets" tweet is that it was in response to a message from Iran saying that they had 34(?) targets inside the US already targeted.
In that context, the 52 makes more sense. Trump realizes a specific number is very persuasive (34 targets not 30ish not more than 30, etc). And he has to outdo Iran, so he comes up with a specific number (52) that also coincides with a previous failure by a Democrat President that he can rectify.
If you just see "52 targets" without that context it looks more "unpredictable".
"Oh you want to buy my property at 34? Well I'll sell it at 52 and not a penny less because you screwed the previous owner of this property 40 years ago. I'm not going to let that happen. New Sheriff in town."
“That, and a quarter, won’t buy you a cup of coffee these days, though a buck (plus tax) will buy you a cup of coffee from McDonald’s, which is my partner’s favorite. She hasn’t eaten their food since she worked there as her first job almost 50 years ago, but my job almost every evening is to pick ca up two cups of their coffee for the next morning”
I left out the part that under Article II, the President has plenary authority as CiC and to conduct foreign policy. The House is limited to passing laws with the Senate that may or may not be effective at reining in the President, and to impeach.
@Walter:
Relax your sphincter, Farmer. I was responding to another comment.
Try decaf.
Yes, making a point about sanctions versus bombing. It just wasn't half as clever as you imagined.
Qwinn,
The Hagia Sophia on Line 1...
@gilbar: The ONLY reason Hiroshima and Nagasaki still existed in Aug '45, is because the Pentagon told LeMay's 20th airforce that they had to leave them alone. By the end of June, the Only cities left in Japan, were the ones being saved for A-Bombs
Kyoto was never bombed, either conventionally or atomically. It contained by far the greatest concentration of Japan’s cultural treasures, and still does. The Air Force brass wanted to flatten it but Secretary of War Henry Stimson persuaded Truman not to. Supposedly he had spent his honeymoon there, and loved the city.
If Trump renames the "Iraq road kill site" as Fifth Avenue can he claim another promise fulfilled?
Meanwhile....Turkey is invading Libya.
using the Syrian rebels we paid for,
https//www.thedailybeast.com/in-world-war-ii-what-if-japan-got-the-atomic-bomb-first
Freder, I was one of those that questioned Trump's threat to cultural sites. I was wrong. I hope that's a bluff but you never know. And neither do the Iranians, and that might be a good thing if the Iranians actually care about such things. In any case, you were right and I was wrong.
Blogger walter said...
I suppose we could have put sanctions on Japan after Pearl Harbor.
A lot of people, including myself, think that the sanctions we put on the Japanese BEFORE Pearl Harbor are responsible for Pearl Harbor.
There are a number of people who think that the reason for the sanctions, though not publicly stated, was to CAUSE Pearl Harbor. At least in the sense of causing the Japanese to declare war on the US. Not necessarily to cause the Pearl Harbor attack specifically.
Many people, including me, including Winston Churchill, including the National Socialists at the time (See their declaration of war against the US in Dec 1941) Think that Roosevelt's actions beginning in 1938 and escalating up through November 1941 were specifically done to goad Germany into declaring war against the US.
These actions included sanctions. Also included invading Iceland, financing England's arms purchases, giving them destroyers, using American warships and planes against German subs and more.
So I guess we could argue that sanctions "worked" there. If the goal was to drag the US people, kicking and screaming, into 2 wars. (WWII Part 2 Europe, and WWII-Japanese edition)
John Henry
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798050/dead-hand-deck-52-wanted-iraqi-playing-cards-given-soldiers-start-war-shows-fall-saddam-ace-spades-hussein-s-army.html
________++++++++++++++++
Trump probably got his idea from this ==>>> merchandise and product placement
Here’s a helpful hint for Gerard and his Mook friends. Soleimanis killing was the response to all those things you mentioned. And a way to prevent further “incidents”.
Farmer,
It was responding to John Henry a few comments upstream.
Maybe it's you who can't distinguish WWII from now.
Decaf.
The quote at Bloomberg is:
“The Americans are now totally unpredictable,” Gerard Araud, a former French ambassador to the U.S. and the United Nations, said in an interview. “There was no response to Iranian attacks against oil tankers, a U.S. drone and Saudi oil fields, but out of the blue comes this surprising hit on Soleimani. We are depending on the unpredictable reaction of one man.”
This is why they don’t like us and don’t understand us. IMHO, that’s always been an issue since our Founding.
Best part, if he had just stayed out of Iraq, but his ego wouldn’t let him.
Farmer: "Yes, making a point about sanctions versus bombing. It just wasn't half as clever as you imagined."
But easily a quarter more clever than the minimum threshold for clever.
Blogger Beasts of England said...
I mentioned Dresden because it was a gorgeous cultural site and its military target value was questionable, hence relevant to the discussion.
Most people who mention Dresden do so mainly because they know about it from Vonnegut's novel and the subsequent movie. Most don't know anything more about the city than was in the movie, if that.
Don't know what your motives are, of course.
In this comment you seem to be valuing the physical city more than the actual people. Please tell me I am misreading your comment as this does not seem like you.
We (the Allies) destroyed dozens of German cities with more cultural value than Dresden. We also destroyed some culturally valuable non-German cities like Caen, Vienna.
Yet Dresden is the ONLY one we wever hear about.
I blame Kurt Vonnegut.
John Henry
Farmer: “Oh, the Republican voter. The battered women of the American political scene. No matter how much the GOP sells you out and spits in your face, you always just keep smiling and asking for more.”
Is this an inside joke? I’m not Republican, but the Republicans I know nominated Trump, voted for him, think retaliation against Iran is about 40 years overdue and vote for Republican politicians mainly to avoid voting for Democrats.
I live in Arizona, Flake, McCain country where expectations of Repubs are understandably low, but expectations of Dems are below zero. Most Republicans view their situation with considerably more sophistication than Farmer views it and if they are smiling, it is with Trump.
Seeing Red: "The quote at Bloomberg is:
“The Americans are now totally unpredictable,”'
Perfect lead in to a "Maginot Line" analogy.
Let's check in on what some of the nationalist conservatives have been saying over the past year or so:
Laura Ingraham: Trump Was Elected To Remove U.S. From Foreign Entanglements, Not To Please Neocons
Michelle Malkin: Simple plan to Keep America Great:
1) Stop exporting American soldiers to countries that hate our guts
2) Stop importing people from countries that hate our guts
Tucker Carlson: 'America appears to be lumbering towards a new Middle East war'
Ann Coulter: Iran is not our problem. You want to distract them from Russia, @realDonaldTrump? Start building the wall.
Patrick J. Buchanan: Is It Jaw-Jaw Or War-War With Iran?
So, as usual, the nationalist right has been getting it right while the GOP Inc/Neocons have been getting it all wrong.
@Drago:
But easily a quarter more clever than the minimum threshold for clever.
Seems a bit generous, but I'll concede.
“gooification”
Like that, though “charification” might be more accurate. I hadn’t realized it until this incident but for most of the time since right after 9/11/01, the weapon of choice utilized for this sort of drone attacks has apparently been the AGM-114N Metal Augmented Charge (MAC) Thermobaric Hellfire missile.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weaponhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon
“A thermobaric weapon, aerosol bomb, or vacuum bomb, is a type of explosive that uses oxygen from the surrounding air to generate a high-temperature explosion, and in practice the blast wave typically produced by such a weapon is of a significantly longer duration than that produced by a conventional condensed explosive.”
So, not having had any personal experience in this matter, it is unclear to me whether the remains would be more goo or more char. His hand, with its signature ring, looked more charred than anything.
Farmer: Anyone who attacks our Embassies is our problem. Period. You can't let a provocation like that go unanswered. Period. You could argue that killing SoiledRemains was *enough* of a response, and for now I might even agree, but your position seems to be that no response at all is the correct response, that Benghazi should be the template. That's heinous.
a little context here:
https://www.thehistoryreader.com/modern-history/kurt-vonnegut-dresden-bombings/
You gotta hand it to Trump -- he caught the European leaders off guard as well as he caught the Iranian's awful Guard.
Blogger Howard said...
John Henry, have you seen the Errol Morris documentary film featuring McNamara, the organization man behind the Tokyo fire bombing?
I had not but had heard about it a couple years ago and meant to watch it. Thanks for reminding me.
I have read Barrett Tillman's bio of Curtis LeMay as well as the history of the development of the B-29 that Curtis LeMay wrote. The B-29 made Tokyo, as well as Hiroshima, Nagasaki and other bombings possible. Both books discuss the bombings.
Both books are fascinating.
One of the interesting things in the Tillman book was about 8th Air Rescue Squadron about which very little is still known.
Another interesting tidbit was that LeMay was an avid hotrodder and once built a jet powered dragster.
As Kennedy said about him "I would not want him making the decisions but once the decision is made, there is no better man to have in charge than LeMay." (Quoting from memory)
John Henry
“There was no response to Iranian attacks against oil tankers, a U.S. drone and Saudi oil fields, but out of the blue comes this surprising hit on Soleimani."
Does it not occur to monsieur that the attack is the response to all of the above plus the embassy attack? Are these people really that dumb?
His hand, with its signature ring, looked more charred than anything.
He would have been properly grilled in court had one existed to try him.
Farmer: "It's always WWII somewhere! Someone's always the Japanese, something is always Pearl Harbor. Or if you prefer less Pacific metaphors, it's always Munich, someone's always Chamberlain, someone's always Hitler."
I personally like Ieyasu at Sekigahara.
So step one is to get it straight about what Trump is actually suggesting.
Yes, by all means, Trump should specifically let the world (and Iran in particularly) know exactly what he has planned: Precisely what the targets are, when they will be hit, and under what contingencies.
It seems to me a certain commenter is missing the point of Althouse's post.
If I read that right, wasn't Dresden close to Sachsenhausen, Vonnegut's acerbic fellow writer, made this pattern satirical with an air strike on the town of ferrara,
Kyoto was never bombed, either conventionally or atomically. It contained by far the greatest concentration of Japan’s cultural treasures, and still does. The Air Force brass wanted to flatten it but Secretary of War Henry Stimson persuaded Truman not to. Supposedly he had spent his honeymoon there, and loved the city.
@Skookum John, I had heard that, too. I was also taught that the Japanese quickly caught on and moved critical war production facilities to Kyoto.
The French are always suspiciously sympathetic to violent revolutionaries. They helped ours and they helped the original Ayatolah Assaholla launch his.
the times stringer, farnissi went almost as extreme as the suggestion that Andropov, the butcher of Budapest, was humanized by his appreciation for jazz, in linking suleimaini's poetry,
@hombre:
the Republicans I know nominated Trump, voted for him, think retaliation against Iran is about 40 years overdue
Yeah, after goading Iraq into attacking Iran and then assisting him with his chemical weapon attacks against the country, shooting down an Iranian airliner, the Clinton administration pursuing a total embargo on trade with Iran, the inclusion in the Axis of Evil speech, supporting anti-Iranian terror groups like PEJAK and MEK, occupying two countries on Iran's border, cyber-warfare, assassinations inside Iran, the recent "maximum pressure" campaign, the boasting of the economic destruction our sanctions are having inside Iran, talking about overthrowing the government. So glad we are finally doing something to Iran. I mean, it's almost as if we haven't been trying to overthrow them for 40 years.
and vote for Republican politicians mainly to avoid voting for Democrats.
A bit like voting for your preferred method of execution--hanging or firing squad.
Most Republicans view their situation with considerably more sophistication than Farmer views it and if they are smiling, it is with Trump.
Well, as they are being demographically obliterated in this country, I guess at least they can take solace in knowing that Soleimani is dead. That ought to be worth something.
“Like that, though “charification” might be more accurate. I hadn’t realized it until this incident but for most of the time since right after 9/11/01, the weapon of choice utilized for this sort of drone attacks has apparently been the AGM-114N Metal Augmented Charge (MAC) Thermobaric Hellfire missile.”
Of course, the way to make this more effective as a deterrent would be to cover the Hellfire missiles with pork grease before launching the drones that carry them. And, of course, publicize that even if it isn’t true. And never mind that the air friction on the way to the target is likely to blur the grease off, and if that doesn’t the thermobaric explosion is sure to burn it off. It’s the in terrorem effect that is important.
He's scary, He's unpredictable,
Who knows what he's thinking
Who knows what he'll do
The Madman in the White House.
Better watch your step.
Yes, by all means, Trump should specifically let the world (and Iran in particularly) know exactly what he has planned: Precisely what the targets are, when they will be hit, and under what contingencies.
The Europeans and certain others are obsessed with the legality of Trump's imagined targets (emphasis on imagined). So yes, they are nothing but a bunch of Hawaiian judges. They should get back to letting in more Jihadi sympathizers.
SGT Ted: "Does it not occur to monsieur that the attack is the response to all of the above plus the embassy attack? Are these people really that dumb?"
Can you imagine how many EU leaders and minions have received direct payoffs from the Iranian regime?
I'll bet in numbers in the thousands over the years.
And I'll also bet that there are lots and lots of American politicians, lobbyists and "helpers" that have gotten their share of cash from the Iranians to keep US policy where the Mullahs want it.
I've noticed that as we get closer to a much clearer picture of just who has been getting what in terms of selling out the US the more desperate the attacks on Trump and his folks become.
Take a look at LLR-lefty Chuck. Remember way back when he pretended he was all "GOPe leadership, Yeah!" and kept that facade up for a couple of years when he was trying to give them all the credit for the accomplishments Trump pushed for?
And yet, over the last 12 months LLR-lefty Chuck has grown very very very silent indeed on support for those very GOPe leaders he pretended to support.
Bill Barr is the perfect example of someone LLR-lefty Chuck pretended to adore as a long time Washington establishment type. Calm, measured, very Bush-establishment-y. Literally every single quality LLR-lefty Chuck lied about wanting.
And now? Barr is being called every name in the book along with McConnell and McCarthy.
Has LLR-lefty Chuck defended any of them in your recent memory?
No.
Why? Because the jig is up and there is no point in LLR-lefty Chuck pretending to be a conservative/establishment fanboy any longer. So its mask off time and embrace the far leftyness of what he (Chuck) has been doing here.
Someone wrote something the other day and it is absolutely demonstrably true: Chuck = Inga.
@Drago:
I personally like Ieyasu at Sekigahara.
Okay, but who played him in the Shōgun miniseries?
John Henry - I was equating the physical layout and beauty of the city with a cultural site. WWII has been an interest of mine since I lived in Okinawa forty years ago; becoming more so in the last few years.
how is it in 16! years in that god forsaken country, we never struck suleimani, or muhandis or quaizali, but we wasted hundreds of lives, burnt and twisted, going after small fry,
Farmer: "Okay, but who played him in the Shōgun miniseries?"
Wasn't that a magnificent series? Amazing story, amazing scope, colors, cultural insight, etc.
Plus: Richard Chamberlain pretending to like women? Now that cat could act!
Michael K wrote: Trump just reoriented the Deep State's motivation. Now they have skin in the game. They need to get Iran out of the terror business. <--This!
J Farmer said...
I have no idea the source of that 5,200 number.
We might be talking about different wars, i'm talking about Iraq; are you talking about Afghanistan?
The Pentagon said in December there were around 5,200 American forces in Iraq. Their ongoing presence is politically sensitive for Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi, who is facing national elections in March.
Farmer: "Okay, but who played him in the Shōgun miniseries?"
That's easy. Admiral Yamamoto, obviously.
Anti-this, Anti-that Farmer posts: “Let's check in on what some of the nationalist conservatives have been saying over the past year or so: ... blah, blah, blah.”
Farmer joins the cheese-eating surrender monkeys in failing to understand that “enough is enough” signifies changed circumstances.
The Air Force brass = Groves wanted to Drop an A-bomb on Kyoto. Hiroshima was picked because it had a large Army base, and thousands of soldiers were killed when the we dropped the A Bomb. Nagasaki was on Kyushu - which was scheduled for invasion in November 1945.
After the RAF started bombing German cities and destroying cultural sites, Hitler launched the "Baedeker raids" against British Cultural sites. What he didn't realize is the British are philistines and didn't care.
gilbar: "We might be talking about different wars, i'm talking about Iraq; are you talking about Afghanistan?"
I think we all agree that right there is a problem.
@Qwinn:
Farmer: Anyone who attacks our Embassies is our problem. Period. You can't let a provocation like that go unanswered. Period. You could argue that killing SoiledRemains was *enough* of a response, and for now I might even agree, but your position seems to be that no response at all is the correct response, that Benghazi should be the template. That's heinous.
The administration's own arguments do not claim that Soleimani was targeted in retribution for the embassy demonstration. Plus, Pompeo had been pushing for action against Soleimani for months. And the comparison to Benghazi was absurd. The main compound was never breached, and there were zero injuries. There wouldn't even have been an embassy protest if the Americans had not decided to launch airstrikes against Iraqi militia against the objections of the Iraqi government. If we were hosting a foreign military on our soil, and that military bombed an American military building against the objections of the American government that Americans might get upset about that?
Farmer: "It's always WWII somewhere! Someone's always the Japanese, something is always Pearl Harbor. Or if you prefer less Pacific metaphors, it's always Munich, someone's always Chamberlain, someone's always Hitler."
I personally like Ieyasu at Sekigahara.
I prefer Darmok at Tanagra.
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