January 7, 2020

"If that’s what the law is, I like to obey the law."

Said President Trump, seemingly rolling back what had been, apparently, a threat to hit cultural sites in Iran.

Quoted in the NYT.

This has been a confusing subject since Saturday, when Trump spoke of targeting 52 sites in Iran, some of which were "important to Iran & the Iranian culture." Later, officials said that none of these sites were "cultural sites," as if there were sites "important to... culture," that were not themselves "cultural sites."

What was this confusion about? I had the idea that it was a game of drawing out elitists — people who endure the usual death and mayhem but cry out in horror at the destruction of art. Did it serve Trump's interests to light a fire under these people and get them to lecture us legalistically about international law?

Now, I see his "If that’s what the law is, I like to obey the law." Such a casual attitude about law. He'll follow the law, if he can, whatever it is. As usual, he doesn't seem too interested in the law, but he gets that some people have a fetish about it, and he's not above taunting them for a while, until it's uncomfortable for him, and then it's, oh, yeah, big deal, your law, yeah, I'll follow that thing.... and I'll do it because I like to.

What a strange man! I never believed that he really would blow up treasured art and architecture. The question for me was why did he go there? Why did he taunt people about that? I assume it's something deeper and craftier than sheer jackassery.

338 comments:

1 – 200 of 338   Newer›   Newest»
exhelodrvr1 said...

Gave the left another chance to show what asshats and anti-Americans they are. And bless their hearts!! They have taken full advantage of the opportunity!

rhhardin said...

Blowing up art is performance art.

rhhardin said...

No nation more deserves carpet bombing than Iran.

traditionalguy said...

To paraphrase David as he shouted back at Goliath, I am going to kill you and the culture you road in on. It's a warrior thing. Even God told David later that he had killed too many to build His Temple.

The law of War, the law of War, got to remember that.

DanTheMan said...

Why did he doi it? Because when you are arguing about whether or not he can blow up cultural sites you are implicitly agreeing that he can bow up other stuff. He’s just reset the terms of the argument.

Freder Frederson said...

He is lying. The only concern he has is not getting caught breaking the law. He has claimed he will use waterboarding (torture) and much worse. So even if you think waterboarding is not torture (even though it is), he has indicated he doesn't care what the law says. He has also pardoned war criminals and turned them into celebrities by having them appear at his rallies, indicating that he endorses illegal behavior and killing of civilians by our troops.

I guess the best we can grudgingly acknowledge is that maybe when he issued that tweet, he didn't know attacking cultural sites is a war crime. Which just demonstrates that he is a dumbass who speaks before he thinks.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Immediately upon hearing the news of the killing, the left - including the political leadership - started in with the BS about it being illegal. Which was obviously wrong - it clearly was in line with similar actions by previous administrations as well as within the limits of the law. So if they are going to act like a clearly legal act was illegal, what's the point of following the rules?

WFalcon2325 said...

I always thought he was referring to blowing up the former American embassy in Tehran, which is now a museum of their revolution, I think. It could be considered American property, after all. Cultural now, but our property.

YoungHegelian said...

i think what Trump was doing was signaling to the Iranian government that if they try to hide their militarily valuable assets near "Cultural" sites, the US will blow it up anyway, world opinion be damned.

I'll bet dollars to donuts that both the American intelligence agencies & the Iranian goverment know very what Trump was referring to, e.g the Iranians have a major nuclear research facility near a cultural site.

MartyB said...

Trump might be "crafty", in the sense he is a born salesman and negotiator, but that doesn't automatically rule out "jackassery" as part of that craft.

As we've seen over the past 4 years, even his foolishness somehow ends up drawing out the foolishness of his critics.

As I've heard said elsewhere: "Embrace the magic power of 'and'".

Unknown said...

The way I go into the next war

I say all the things I won't do

And places I won't go

This information has never been used against me...

rhhardin said...

What would a cultural site be, I wonder. There's none around here.

I think it refers to pottery fragments. Maybe arrowheads, in the US, chiefly used to stop development rather than bombing.

Gahrie said...

I never believed that he really would blow up treasured art and architecture.

Why? It seems to be the thing to do now days. First you had ISIS over in the Middle East destroying anything from before the founding of Islam. But we have our own villains here in the United States. The Left has been removing and banning art that displeases them for decades. Tear down that statue! Paint over that mural! You can't even stage a production of The Vagina Dialogs for Christ's sake!

Mark O said...

This is his way. You should know it by now.

rhhardin said...

Historic mosque and underground nuclear facility.

rhhardin said...

Obviously protecting Confederate soldier statues with a surrounding mosque hasn't occured to anybody here.

Howard said...

There is nothing to figure out here. Trump is a troll and the cultural sites threat was a troll and then the follow-up casual yeah maybe I'll follow the law yada yada yada is another troll.

rhhardin said...

Trump would rebuild any historic sites bombed with golden decor. Best mosque ever.

Vance said...

I suspect it was to let Iran know that the standard Muslim tactic of hiding your uranium super weapon inside some old relic makes it off limits just won't fly.

Stick your missile launcher inside a mosque, that mosque is now a target.

Would we target the mosque on its own? Not without reason. That reason is if the Mullah's get a little too clever for their own good.

rhhardin said...

Scuff proof floors.

Freder Frederson said...

Gave the left another chance to show what asshats and anti-Americans they are.

So pointing out that a threatened action by the president violates both U.S. and International law (and that any service member who obeyed the order to destroy a purely cultural site would also be subject to prosecution under the UCMJ) is "anti-American". It seems like acting like savages by destroying purely cultural sites is what is anti-American.

Infinite Monkeys said...

I think you could blow up a sports stadium and consider it important to an area's culture but not "cultural".

Lewis Wetzel said...

I suppose we can expect the Dems to now accuse one-time Democrat presidential candidate (& current Dem booster) Wes Clark for war crimes. He did admit to targeting civilian infrastructure in the Kosovo air campaign of 1999: "The bombing campaign received criticism when it bombed the Radio Television of Serbia headquarters on April 23, 1999. The attack which killed sixteen civilian employees was labeled as a war crime by Amnesty International[68] and as an act of terrorism by Noam Chomsky."

Bay Area Guy said...

The World Trade Center aka the Twin Towers in New York, kinda were important to American culture, No?

Bill Harshaw said...

" deeper and craftier than sheer jackassery."

I can buy the idea he is very intelligent in some ways, but not that there's something deeper and craftier than his jackassery.

Jim at said...

Gave the left another chance to show what asshats and anti-Americans they are.

Precisely. According to the fifth-column left: Iranian 'cultural' sites > American lives.

Spiros said...

When people are forced to fight wars, they become casualty-sensitive and less supportive of conflict. That is why democracies are dovish. Mr. Sanders anti-war position, for example, conforms very closely to public opinion. It is smart politics. We don't want another war in the Middle East.

But Iran is not a democracy. And its people are unable to exert ANY control over its military establishment. That is why Mr. Trump's targeted assassinations are good policy. Not only is Iran's military capacity compromised but Iran's generals are made casualty sensitive. The generals have skin in the game. I bet they will be much more risk averse.

Freder Frederson said...

Would we target the mosque on its own? Not without reason.

You are reading a hell of a lot into that tweet. Yes, if you are using cultural sites to cover weapons, they do indeed become legitimate targets. But you have to completely misread the tweet to make that argument. Hell just the number of targets (52, one for each of the hostages of forty years ago) he chose and why demonstrates that he did not come up with the list out of what would be militarily necessary.

TickTock said...

When he made the comment, I wondered whether it was based on intel about something hidden at a cultural site - a specific warning to the Iranians that they might understand.

Jupiter said...

A Google server farm is important to American (and Chinese) culture, but it is not a "cultural site".

Rob said...

Is Ayatollah Khomeini's mausoleum fair game? (I hope, I hope, I hope.)

Spiros said...

When people are forced to fight wars, they become casualty-sensitive and less supportive of conflict. That is why democracies are dovish. Mr. Sanders anti-war position, for example, conforms very closely to public opinion. It is smart politics. We don't want another war in the Middle East.

But Iran is not a democracy. And its people are unable to exert ANY control over its military establishment. That is why Mr. Trump's targeted assassinations are good policy. Not only is Iran's military capacity compromised but Iran's generals are made casualty sensitive. The generals have skin in the game. I bet they will be much more risk averse.

rehajm said...

Yah, that super specific number of targets and the specific use of the term cultural sites is chilling if the mullah powerpoint had 52 important sites, some of which were cultural.

Jupiter said...

Perhaps Freder could tell us what sorts of Iranian targets Trump could blast to oblivion while still enjoying Freder's whole-hearted approval.

Rusty said...

" Hell just the number of targets (52, one for each of the hostages of forty years ago) he chose and why demonstrates that he did not come up with the list out of what would be militarily necessary."
How do you know? The answer is you don't.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Althouse said ...
I assume it's something deeper and craftier than sheer jackassery.


Why?

Freder Frederson said...

He did admit to targeting civilian infrastructure in the Kosovo air campaign of 1999: "The bombing campaign received criticism when it bombed the Radio Television of Serbia headquarters on April 23, 1999. The attack which killed sixteen civilian employees was labeled as a war crime by Amnesty International[68] and as an act of terrorism by Noam Chomsky."

Radio stations and other infrastructure (water treatment plants, civilian power grids) are a grey area. I would certainly entertain the notion that it was indeed illegal (but not of the same gravity as deliberately destroying a cultural site to make a point)

There was quite a discussion about Monte Cassino the other day. My understanding of the destruction was that the U.S. bombed the abbey based on bad intelligence that the Germans were using it for artillery observation. The raid actually backfired because after the bombing the Germans did indeed fortify the ruins and use it for observation.

Yancey Ward said...

Trump again reveals the deep hypocrisy and lack of seriousness in his political enemies. Like I wrote the other day, no one bats a fucking eye at a drone strike on terrorist barracks and arms depot in Iraq, but then all get their panties in a twist when a drone strike kills the fucking general who is directing and arming the aforementioned barracks and arms depot. Suleimani deserved death as much as the individuals under Suleimani's tacit command, and I think was more deserving of death- don't you?

The "cultural sites" bullshit is just the same thing. I promise you this- if the anti-aircraft batteries are in cultural sites, they will be taken out in an attack, and I don't give a flying fuck what the international law says about it, and neither will Trump nor any really rational human being who isn't just being a fucktard.

readering said...

I suspect it's because the guy has a screw loose and has because he learned about fighting from promoting professional wrestling as casino operator. Jackassery rewarded there.

rhhardin said...

Cultural sites would mean farms.

Inga said...

Trump hates getting caught.

rhhardin said...

Trump threat looms over rug industry.

gnossos said...

Soon after the the 52 targets remark was made I read an Iranian blogger's post which took up the potential misreading of cultural sites.

He wrote that it was common usage for a gathering place, meeting hall for party members. IIRC he said the locations could be in government buildings or stand alone buildings which might or might not have historical significance. I got the impression they were like VFW clubs.

I also found myself remembering the old Serbian Hall in SF's Mission District.


I wish I had bookmarked it at the time, can't find it now. Maybe Narciso can come to the rescue with his google foo.

Seeing Red said...

Cultural sites can be mosques. I think Muslims have been known to hide ammo in them.

Inga said...

And you all owe Chuck an apology. Even a Trump admitted to wanting to attack cultural sites.

Dave Begley said...

Ann's answer to her own question and many of the above are good. I'm of the view that Trump was just inciting the likes of AOC with the prospect of Trump blowing up a cultural site so she could call him a war criminal. The detestable Chris Van Hollen (D. China) was on the war crimes bandwagon too.

My strong view is that after the next serious thing Iran does to strike back, we need to vaporize their entire nuke infrastructure so that Iran never gets the bomb. Now is our chance.

I understand that QS's funeral is postponed because over 50 have been stomped to death. What an idiot nation full of fucking idiots. These savages need to be put in their place.

Drago said...

Inga: "And you all owe Chuck an apology. Even a Trump admitted to wanting to attack cultural sites."

LOL

Carter Page is waiting for your apology.

So is Trump since you called him a treasonous traitor as well.

Well, we're waiting....

Dave Begley said...

What would an Iranian cultural site be? A big soccer stadium? A crummy old mosque? Not like they have a Mount Rushmore or Field Museum.

Seeing Red said...

Meh. Someone will do something somewhere.

Rabel said...

"Let this serve as a WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets, we have targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD. The USA wants no more threats!"

- President Trump

"I had the idea that it was a game of drawing out elitists — people who endure the usual death and mayhem but cry out in horror at the destruction of art."

- Ann Althouse

The threat/WARNING was obviously not aimed at artistic elitists. It was aimed at the leadership in Iran.

All things cannot be judged in light of one's particular set of interests.

Drago said...

Seeing Red: "Cultural sites can be mosques. I think Muslims have been known to hide ammo in them."

Correct.

Inga's beloved islamic supremacists routinely use cultural and sensitive sites for military operations.

Anti-aircraft guns on hospitals, in school yards, mosques used as armories.

And Inga digs it all.

Yancey Ward said...

No, Inga, he said the Iranians themselves might consider some of the targets culturally important, which just reveals the unseriousness of people like you. I assume that if there really is a target list, and there almost certainly is, then it is all militarily important targets that might well be concealed by or built alongside so-called cuturally important sites. Trump is telling the Iranians that such tactics won't avail them more than talking points from fucktards like yourself.

YoungHegelian said...

It's pretty rich for the Iranian regime, which is based around a revisionist Shi'a Islam as promulgated by the late Ayatollah Khomeini that is much more iconoclastic than traditional Qom/Karballah Shi'a Islam, to get all google-eyed about "cultural sites".

There used to be a tradition of Persian "classical" music in Iran up until the time of Khomeini, when the regime banned public performances. The artists either emigrated or perform in private "house" concerts. The same with art which depicts natural subjects, which is forbidden in Sunni Islam, but which flourished under the less stringent Persian Shi'a until Khomeini (an example).

But none of these actual historical distinctions matter to a modern Left whose raison d'etre can be summed up in three words: "Orange Man Bad".

Seeing Red said...

…Trump told them what he’s going to do.


Believe him.

Gk1 said...

I presume he was referring to military assets hidden in a "cultural site" like Saddam did. Because nothing has happened it was tough to get my knickers in a bunch. Maybe thats just me.

Unknown said...

targeting 52 sites in Iran, some of which were "important to Iran & the Iranian culture."

This does not say targets cultural sites will be targeted, just that some of the targets are "important to Iran & the Iranian culture." Literally. It's the English language.

It's Iran; if you randomly picked 52 sites where there is some kind of people-activity then chances are at least one will fit the statement. The cultural status of a military site isn't a pass. That's all.

Seeing Red said...

Let’s look at this another way.

The cultural sites have been photographed videographer, mapped and there’s a record.

The Environazis want to ban all (air) travel except for the anointed which means no tourism.

Since the world won’t be able to visit them anyway, what’s the diff? They’re on line.

rhhardin said...

The Iranians will have to go to human shields if they want to protect something.

Not caring about them is a harder sell with women voting. Nobody really likes pottery though.

Chuck said...

So like I expected and wrote on these comments pages as of Sunday, now it’s time for Trump to back the fuck down. Trump can put out stupid shit on Twitter, but it doesn’t change the law or reality.

Then there is the matter of the Trump fans who wrote admiringly about Trump’s now- withdrawn threat. How does that shit taste now?

Michael K said...

hhardin said...
No nation more deserves carpet bombing than Iran.


Disagree. The people are not our enemy. The IRGC which was run by Suleimani, is the enemy.
The situation is more analogous to USSR than Nazi Germany. The Germans were better informed and took advantage of the persecution of the Jews.

Freder is not worth responding to.

Seeing Red said...

I’m waiting for my holodeck.

gspencer said...

"Why did he taunt people about that?"

He's not taunting just any "people." He's taunting the left and Democrats for their outrageous hypocrisy.

Seeing Red said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rhhardin said...

It's a shithole culture. Everybody's better off without its cultural sites.

Dave Begley said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lloyd W. Robertson said...

There's always this "talking like a lot of guys in bars in New York" thing--even though, we are told, Trump (like Jay Leno) has never had an alcoholic drink. In 2016 it was "of course I would torture--I would try some tortures the bad guys have never even heard of." Now some people who are opposed to bombing anything in Iran are worried that by playing the "bomb culture" card, and then taking it back, Trump has normalized the idea of bombing anything that's not culture.

Dave Begley said...

I'd bet those Iran nuke sites are important to the Iranian culture: The Culture of Death.

Vaporize them. Then watch the Dems whine, bitch and moan about the bad thing Trump did.

Trump will take out those nuke sites. He has to.

Unknown said...

In (projecting) Trump's mind the 'controversy' is totally manufactured and therefore not worth spending the time to defend. Military sites that are "important to Iran & the Iranian culture" don't get a free pass, as opposed to a previous administration.

Achilles said...

Ann Althouse:

"What a strange man! I never believed that he really would blow up treasured art and architecture. The question for me was why did he go there? Why did he taunt people about that? I assume it's something deeper and craftier than sheer jackassery."

There is nothing deeper. These rules only have 1 purpose: To inhibit the US Military and aid our enemies.

Freder and Inga and Chuck the rest of these douche bags know the Iranians and our enemies don't give a shit about "international laws."

These shitheads are just on the other side.

Freder Frederson said...

How do you know? The answer is you don't.

How do I know? Because he said in the fucking tweet that 52 targets had been chosen to represent the embassy hostages. It is one thing to claim I am misinterpreting, but he fucking said it.

Hagar said...

Young Hegelian said: "... the Iranians have a major nuclear research facility near a cultural site."

Had not thought of that, but obviously so once pointed out. Their major known installation indeed is located in just such a place.
And, of course, a general caution against storing munitions in mosques, etc.; a subject which may well have come up in recent intelligence briefings.
So, on the mark and not all that subtle.

Nor was it all that subtle that Trump all but declared John Kerry and friends guilty of treason.
Why the total lack of comments about that?

Seeing Red said...

He wasn’t taunting, he was very clear. I have a full deck. You do this, I’ll shuffle and see what the top card is and do this.

It’s open and above board.

Bwaaaa the UN seems to finally be earning its pay. I’m wondering if that dept will ask for more money.

Achilles said...

Chuck said...
So like I expected and wrote on these comments pages as of Sunday, now it’s time for Trump to back the fuck down. Trump can put out stupid shit on Twitter, but it doesn’t change the law or reality.

Then there is the matter of the Trump fans who wrote admiringly about Trump’s now- withdrawn threat. How does that shit taste now?


It is not withdrawn.

And we know you are on the same team as Iran.

We see you.

rhhardin said...

Cultural sites are weapons of mass obstruction.

Seeing Red said...

Are the Toyota landcruisers surrounding the cultural sites yet?

Achilles said...

Inga said...
And you all owe Chuck an apology. Even a Trump admitted to wanting to attack cultural sites.

We don't owe the enemies of our country shit.

The soldiers in our military knew exactly what Trump meant and they know exactly who's team you are on.

narciso said...

remember this case,

https://ivmf.syracuse.edu/team-member/ilario-pantano/

Jim at said...

Those precious cultural sites could really use some human shields.

Seeing Red said...

So if Kerry is tried for Treason, will they go over his finances like a fly over flypaper?

Oohhh don’t get me excited. Any crossover with the Tides Foundation?

Drago said...

Gk1: "I presume he was referring to military assets hidden in a "cultural site" like Saddam did. Because nothing has happened it was tough to get my knickers in a bunch. Maybe thats just me."

Correct.

Interestingly the dems have already convicted Trump of war crimes while they hold rallies in support of the biggest terrorist leader of the biggest terrorist group within the biggest global state sponsor of terror.

Now the dems open support for Kim Jong Un and the drug cartels and MS13 makes even more sense.

Seeing Red said...

Kerry tried for Treason.

Karma, 50 years late.

He should have shut his mouth and windsurfed.

narciso said...

this might be one:


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/isfahan-irans-hidden-jewel-116221512/

traditionalguy said...

The Shites have their Red Flag of war flying over the mosque that is over the Well where the Twelfth Imam is “occluded”.

n.n said...

Wombs, and "our Posterity", are culturally significant to Iran. We will deploy planned WMD, Wombs of Mass Destruction, to exonerate the regime's burdens, present and future. And the clever part is that it will be entirely self-inflicted.

Seeing Red said...

So was Kerry full of himself, sent as an emissary, or as an aging boomer, just can’t let go?

Who paid for it? Who set it up? Whose contacts and their names?

Freder Frederson said...

Freder and Inga and Chuck the rest of these douche bags know the Iranians and our enemies don't give a shit about "international laws."

And apparently, neither do you. (And as I pointed out, it is also codified in U.S. law, so you do not believe in U.S. law either.)

Achilles said...

It would be really convenient for us if Pelosi and Schumer and Schiff and the rest of the traitors and their supporters to go defend some Iranian cultural sites.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

"Blogger Howard said...
There is nothing to figure out here. Trump is a troll and the cultural sites threat was a troll and then the follow-up casual yeah maybe I'll follow the law yada yada yada is another troll"

In this context, Howard actually gets one right. But Trump is trolling with the United States military at his command. The level of uncertainty for the Iranian government must be paralytic.

Yancey Ward said...

Fine, Freder. How exactly does one determine if a site is culturally important. Have at it.

narayanan said...

Now, I see his "If that’s what the law is, I like to obey the law." Such a casual attitude about law.

__________+++++++++++++++++
I don't get the Professora comment about casual - what other attitude is necessary? and proper

Hagar said...

Iran is the eastern part of the ancient Persian empire and, of course, also the Greek and Roman empires. There are lots of quite venerable sites hallowed in the history of western civilization.

Achilles said...

Freder Frederson said...
Freder and Inga and Chuck the rest of these douche bags know the Iranians and our enemies don't give a shit about "international laws."

And apparently, neither do you. (And as I pointed out, it is also codified in U.S. law, so you do not believe in U.S. law either.)

If you knew anything about International Law you would know 2 things:

1. People that do not wear uniforms and carry out military activities have no protection.

2. Sites that are used for military purposes are not protected.

You are just on the other side.

Achilles said...

Yancey Ward said...
Fine, Freder. How exactly does one determine if a site is culturally important. Have at it.

According to Freder a site is culturally important if it would benefit our enemies to make it off limits to attack.

That is the only criteria these people have.

Anything to fight their true enemies and help their allies.

Rusty said...

I like how all of a sudden Freder is all about the rule of law. Not Muller. Not Kavenaugh. Not the phoney impeachment, but, got forbid, Trump drops a bomb on a petting zoo.
history just started this morning eh Freder.

Achilles said...

readering said...
I suspect it's because the guy has a screw loose and has because he learned about fighting from promoting professional wrestling as casino operator. Jackassery rewarded there.

That is what a stupid person who did not understand war or how to win a war would say.

It could also be that you are just on the other side.

Gk1 said...

Even if you can't stand Trump and think he's the worst president ever can the democrats at least feign some measure of approval of an iranian terrorist killed in IRAQ as a good thing, instead of acting like Iran's country lawyer and trying to explain away it's culpability in numerous deaths in Iraq and other places? Jebus, can these people even play the game? Their continual flailing has gone from pathetic to just sad.

Earnest Prole said...

I assume it's something deeper and craftier than sheer jackassery.

We all agree the man is a savant; the debate is whether that term should be paired with the adjective idiot..

Hagar said...

Trump has also moved B-52's to Diego Garcia. Another not so subtle hint that that nuclear facility of theirs is vulnerable.

Qwinn said...

A lovely little summary of how Iran treats "cultural sites". And this is just the first part. Download the PDF for more details like how the Baha'is also get their cemeteries dug up and the bodies dumped elsewhere.

https://www.bic.org/sites/default/files/srculturalrights-0416.pdf


The Destruction of the Cultural Sites of the Bahá'ís in Iran
(April 2016)
We would like to provide the following information for the upcoming report by the Special Rapporteur in the field of cultural rights. The Islamic Republic of Iran has a long history of systematically removing the historical and cultural sites of its Bahá’í community. Even prior to the establishment of the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Bahá’í Community had never been allowed to hold property in their own name. This was problematic, as Iran is the birthplace of the Bahá’í Faith, and the place of many historical and memorial sites. In order to maintain the properties for the Bahá’ís of the world, a non-profit holding company was established under the name of Umana or “Trustees”. The first act of the Iranian government in 1979 was to confiscate the Umana company, resulting in holding legal possession of all historical and cultural sites belonging to the Bahá’ís. Soon thereafter, numerous Bahá’í religious and cultural monuments were physically seized, desecrated and/or demolished. Further steps were taken to destroy Bahá’í cemeteries in order to erase any historical record of a community. These aggressive tactics have been irrefutably documented and are as follows:

Destruction of Historical and Holy Places
1. The House of the Báb, a place of pilgrimage to Bahá’ís all over the world, was confiscated on 26 April 1979 and destroyed five months later. It was initially confiscated under the guise of “protecting and preventing possible damage.” However, it became evident that it was not the case when on 1 September, 1979 a demolition team, commissioned by the Attorney General of the Revolutionary Court in Tehran, began to destroy the historic site. Ultimately, the building was razed and the Mosque of Mahdi was built over the site, in an attempt to expunge the historical significance of the home.

2. Following the 1979 revolution, the Garden of Badasht, where the early believers of the Bahá'í Faith held their first conference in 1848, was demolished. The House of the Báb in Shiraz, Iran, one of the most holy sites in the Bahá’í world, was destroyed by Revolutionary Guardsmen in 1979 and later razed by the government

3. In addition, the Home of Bahá’u’lláh, the prophet founder of the Bahá’í faith, in Darkula was demolished in 1979.

4. The House of Bahá’u’lláh in Takur, where the Bahá’í founder spent his youth, was
confiscated. In December 1981, it was completely destroyed and the land sold.

5. On 24 July 1979, the holy site known as “the House of the Martyrs” in Arak was destroyed, and the remains of the people buried there were removed by an unknown group.

6. In January 2004, a sacred site in Babul, the resting place of a prominent Bahá'í was destroyed. The destruction was carried out with full cooperation from the authorities, despite the appeals and intervention by local Bahá’ís. The authorities went so far as to prevent the local Bahá’ís from retrieving the sacred remains.

7. In June 2004, despite the historical significance to Iranians in general, the home of Baha’u’llah’s father was ordered to be demolished. This site was associated with an important period in the history of the Bahá’í Faith. On the orders of Ayatollah Kani, the demolition was carried out in the presence of the Ayatollah’s sons and Intelligence Ministry officials.

The Iranian Bahá’ís found out that the mayor’s office had received written instructions not to interfere with events pertaining to the building. They also
talked to a few reporters, who discovered that the demolition of this house was included in the list of topics about which they were not permitted to report.

Inga said...

Thank God Achilles is no longer active duty military, he’d need to be Sectioned 8. Bat shit.

Achilles said...

Earnest Prole said...
I assume it's something deeper and craftier than sheer jackassery.

We all agree the man is a savant; the debate is whether that term should be paired with the adjective idiot..

Prole just did everyone a service inadvertantly.

You and Ann are probably too smart to figure out who the idiots are.

Hint: Try looking in a mirror. Trump is smarter than you are.

Chuck said...

There may have been a handful of other explanations Trump could have given, as many of you have already alluded.

Trump could have done the Pompeo thing; “No, read the Tweet again, because I didn’t actually threaten any cultural sites..:”. But that flew out the window on Air Force One when Trump did some more reckless trash talk.

Or he could have at least tried to fake what some of have theorized; Iran has some “cultural” sites which function as command/control/weaponized facilities. He didn’t do that, presumably because there is such a complete lack of supporting info that Trump could not even fake it.

Instead, we were left with such a blandly stupid explanation — “if that’s what the law is ....” — that the only conclusion is that Trump is a poorly-informed, careless idiot.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

'cultural sites' could mean a toilet-paper factory.

would their gen pop deem anything built after 1979 a cultural site?

---

A NOTICE TO PROGLIBDEM PARENTS FROM TIME:

@TIME

"If you need help talking with the children in your life about the aftermath of Iranian Gen. Qasem Soleimani's killing, @timeforkids has a guide to explaining the topic"

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Michael K said...
rhhardin said...
No nation more deserves carpet bombing than Iran.

Disagree. The people are not our enemy.


MK for the win. Not a sentence that gets aired out very often on this site.

Of all the major Muslim groups the Iranians are the best option to be co-opted by the West. It is a low bar, but you have to start somewhere. And things were going along OK for a while, until the neocons convinced Trump to escalate tensions with Iran again.

There is no upside for us to be at war with Iran.

Drago said...

Inga: "Thank God Achilles is no longer active duty military, he’d need to be Sectioned 8. Bat shit."

LOL

It's always hilarious when Inga and LLR-lefty Chuck pretend to know actual "military stuff".

narciso said...

I'm sure they issued a strong letter, the jewish cultural center in Buenos aires, that had some real time significance, there was another attack against the Israeli embassy, that was in 1992 and 1994, of course president menem, as well as many of his successors, sought to thwart justice in this case,

Achilles said...

Inga said...
Thank God Achilles is no longer active duty military, he’d need to be Sectioned 8. Bat shit.

I was honorably discharged you piece of shit.

4 deployments. Over 200 combat missions. CIB. etc.

And veterans will overwhelmingly support Trump.

Honest polls put the Trump support numbers over 80%.

We all see you.

JohnAnnArbor said...

I'll bet dollars to donuts that both the American intelligence agencies & the Iranian goverment know very what Trump was referring to, e.g the Iranians have a major nuclear research facility near a cultural site.

Very good point. And the law is clear that doing such things--placing military equipment next to schools, medical facilities, cultural sites--is a war crime by the placer.

The Left loves to ignore that. "Look, the Israelis blew up an ambulance, the monsters!" (Guns and ammunition spill out of the clearly-not-an-ambulance.) "Don't look at THAT!"

Drago said...

ARM: "There is no upside for us to be at war with Iran."

LOL

Number of times ARM has either written this or said it out loud in the last 40 years prior to this week: ZERO

Yancey Ward said...

What we have done is make war not "so terrible", at least not for those who start them and direct them. Leaders should be targets.

Qwinn said...

It'll be interesting to see if any person here worried about Iranian "cultural sites" will acknowledge that Iran destroys every cultural site they come across, unless it's theirs.

Insisting that we must treat with kid gloves the culture that destroys every single other culture seems like a piss poor way to defend culture. Unless the only culture you care about is that of the mullahs.

Inga said...

“I was honorably discharged you piece of shit.”

So you acquired your affliction after you were out of the military.

narciso said...

a bad man, who slaughtered and maimed hundreds of servicemen, who did much the same for assad regimes met his proper end, after many many years,

Beasts of England said...

’threatened action by the president’

Mentioning something is not tantamount to a threat...

FullMoon said...

Shows how reasonable Trump can be. Patiently listened to the experts on each side, asked pertinent questions, weighed their opinions,pro and con, read all the law books, prayed to God for guidance, meditated on it and allowed his opinion to evolve.

Guy just keeps getting better and better. Literally a stable genius, not to mention red, white and blue American through and through.

God bless America and God bless President Donald Trump


Drago said...

Inga: "So you acquired your affliction after you were out of the military."

There is nothing so common as leftists abusing psychiatry to attack their political opponents.

Despite Inga's long battle of denial that the Soviets and ChiComs and cuban commies and Eastern European commies did precisely that, it remains true.

Hagar said...

Correction: Today's Iran lies east of the Greek and Roman empires The western part of the Persian empire and its capital cities lay in today's Iraq, but the culture(s) of course stretched across.

Francisco D said...

Freder, ARM, Inga and Chuckles are commenting away as if they had their collective panties in a twist. What could be creating a disturbance in their inadequate little psyches?

Oh yeah. Trump has something to say and they have to denounce him for talking, regardless of what he says.

Don't you guys get tired of your little game?

Drago said...

Admiral Inga, did you ever apologize to Carter Page, Naval Academy Grad/Naval Intelligence Officer/CIA asset, for calling him a treasonous traitor and russian spy?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago said...
ZERO


I have been a consistent supporter of the Iranian people, who are more rational than most in the region and are now trapped by a nightmarish religious/military dictatorship. Obama and the Europeans were doing the right thing by the Iranian people.


n.n said...

He has a libertarian disposition, where self-moderation and open sanction is the default state a la 10th Amendment, and quasi-religious (legal, ethical) protocols are exclusive or proscriptive.

tim maguire said...

It might be against the law to blow up certain cultural sites, but it is not against the law to say you’ll blow them up.

Beasts of England said...

’Then there is the matter of the Trump fans who wrote admiringly about Trump’s now- withdrawn threat. How does that shit taste now?’

Still waiting for a Trump quote that made such a threat.

n.n said...

As for Iran, terrorism by proxy is not viable, she should abort the practice, make better choices, and reconcile with her neighbors.

narciso said...

I remember when time around 2003, put a soldier of the 101st airborne, side by side with an Iraqi insurgent, tim mcguirk, invented the 'haditha massacre', bobby ghosh gave an unreasonable respect to the terrorists,

ThunderChick said...

Trump is privy to intelligence information that we do not know. Maybe some Iranian "cultural sites" are being used by the Iranians for military purposes and Trump is putting them on notice that they are no longer protected under the laws of war. Trump's tweet was directed to the Iranians just as Soleimani's tweet, "You can't do anything" was directed to Trump and the U.S. military.

Qwinn said...

Trump merely talks about hitting Iranian cultural sites: OMG NAZI FUEHRER VIOLATES INTERNATIONAL LAW!

Iran doesn't just talk about but *actually* completely wipes out culture after culture within their borders: Dead Fucking Silence.

Why isn't a single leftie here saying that Iran violated International Law when they destroyed the Bahá'ís culture root and stem?

They scream about it if Trump just talks about it.

They don't give a single flying fuck when Iran actually does it.

We know why.

Francisco D said...

I signed up for the Trump campaign and gave them my first $50 installment.

This will be the first time in almost 20 years that I have donated to a political campaign.

I am thinking of donating $50 every time I get annoyed at the Dems, Media, and lefty trolls here.

My finances are good, but I wonder how long I can afford several donations a day.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Francisco D
inadequate little psyche


More invective, but no rational argument? If you don't like having to deal with a range of opinions and you can't formulate convincing arguments of your own why don't you just retreat to 4chan or some similar site?


Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

ARM: "I have been a consistent supporter of the Iranian people, who are more rational than most in the region and are now trapped by a nightmarish religious/military dictatorship. Obama and the Europeans were doing the right thing by the Iranian people."

Uh, soooooooo, uh, how much money would you have given the mad mullahs after they attacked our embassy?

I'll bet you were especially proud of obama when he abandoned the Iranian people in the Green Revolution in 2009, weren't you? Were you especially proud of how silent obama was when the mad mullahs were gunning their own people down in the streets?

Do you even remember that, or did history begin anew for you 15 minutes ago like it does for Admiral Inga and LLR-lefty Chuck and the other lefty lunatics?

Beasts of England said...

’Obama and the Europeans were doing the right thing by the Iranian people.’

Thanks for realizing that Obama was committing treason by providing aid and comfort to our enemy.

Drago said...

Here's one for ARM and Inga and LLR-lefty Chuck and the other sycophantic obama suckups:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2016-08-24/why-obama-let-iran-s-green-revolution-fail

"One of the great hypotheticals of Barack Obama's presidency involves the Iranian uprising that began on June 12, 2009, after Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was announced the winner of contested presidential elections. What if the president had done more to help the protesters when the regime appeared to be teetering?"

It's no mystery at all.

obama wanted and wants Iran to have the bomb to act as a Middle East counterweight to Israel, a nation he despises with every fiber of his being.

Sticking it to America along the way was just gravy.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

the Iranian people, who are more rational than most in the region and are now trapped by a nightmarish religious/military dictatorship. Obama and the Europeans were doing the right thing by the Iranian people.

Such foolishness. Obama was doing right by the Iranian people by helping prop up a "nightmarish religious/military dictatorship"? Who thinks that way?

Obama should have supported the Iranians by supporting the Green Revolution. Instead Obama sided with the Soleimanis who were killing the Iranian protesters.

narciso said...

as I've pointed out, he's full of ouvno, and the likes of rouhani and mousavian, have not only engaged in deception in diplomatic negotiation, but overseen the liquidation of dissidents in the west,

Drago said...

Bill: "Such foolishness. Obama was doing right by the Iranian people by helping prop up a "nightmarish religious/military dictatorship"? Who thinks that way?"

Every single leftist alive.

Qwinn said...

I wonder, if Trump only hits one cultural site, and it turns out to be one of the last Bahais cultural sites left (let's pretend that any remain after the Iranians spent 4 decades destroying them systematically), will the Lefties THEN pretend to care about the Bahais culture? And only then?

Drago said...

Qwinn: "I wonder, if Trump only hits one cultural site, and it turns out to be one of the last Bahais cultural sites left (let's pretend that any remain after the Iranians spent 4 decades destroying them systematically), will the Lefties THEN pretend to care about the Bahais culture? And only then?"

Not only will the lefties ONLY begin to care then, the lefties will actually blame Trump for all the previous destruction carried out by their favored islamic supremacist allies.

Bob said...

"...deeper and craftier than sheer jackassery."

Something to this, I think.

Joe Biden talks from time to time in violent metaphors, like beating up Trump behind the gym or "punching home the message". He has a history of ridiculing hostile questioners, challenging their IQs or their health. I get the feeling Biden, deep down, would really like to be a tough guy and pummel someone. This is simple jackassery, and it's hard to take seriously.

Trump likes to leave a question in someone's mind. Would he really do that? Do I want to take the chance?

This is crafty jackassery, and it seems to get results (after all, he really does have a bigger button, and it really does work). Especially after blowing some deserving terrorist to hell.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Bill, Republic of Texas said...
Obama should have supported the Iranians


He did, by shutting up. You have apparently failed to notice, but Americans do not have a good reputation in Iran. Go figure.

Ken B said...

Althouse reading fail. The "I like to obey the law" is litotes.

bleh said...

What if the Iranians position their military assets (troops, equipment) at or inside so-called "cultural sites"? I believe domestic and international law would have to allow the U.S. military to strike those sites.

walter said...

Seeing Red said...So was Kerry full of himself, sent as an emissary, or as an aging boomer, just can’t let go? Who paid for it? Who set it up? Whose contacts and their names?
--
The press will get right on that.

n.n said...

Trump is privy to intelligence information that we do not know. Maybe some Iranian "cultural sites" are being used by the Iranians for military purposes and Trump is putting them on notice

Good point. Mosques -- does Iran operate [clinical] Chambers? -- and other culturally significant sites and structures in proximity have been used as fronts to house and obfuscate weapons and terrorists. This is notice to the regime that they have placed these sites and people at risk, should clear the proscribed paraphernalia and occupants, and enforce zoning laws as appropriate to remain viable.

walter said...

bleh,
They may put missiles in houses, but c'mon. Standards.

YoungHegelian said...

@Qwinn,

You know where the Baha'i flourish? Haifa, Israel.

Muslims think the Baha'i are heretics.

Achilles said...

Inga said...
“I was honorably discharged you piece of shit.”

So you acquired your affliction after you were out of the military.

I got out for several reasons. But top 3 were:

1. Family
2. Widely held belief that Obama was trying to get as many of us killed as possible
3. The determination that people in charge in DC did not actually want to win in Afghanistan but keep the war going forever.

Nothing has changed about these determinations. Democrats and their Neocon allies are still our enemy and even more openly siding with leaders like the Mullahs.

You are a piece of shit.

I appreciate your activities here. Keep bashing the military and siding with Iran.

You people are doing an excellent job of informing the American people exactly who you are.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

You have apparently failed to notice, but Americans do not have a good reputation in Iran

So now you are saying the Iranian people aren't rational? That they would prefer to live in a "nightmarish religious/military dictatorship" than to accept American and European aid for their revolution?

Plus there are many ways to support protesters including covert and private aid.

Qwinn said...

Hmmm. How about if Trump just *talks* about targeting the last remaining Bahais cultural site that the Iranian mullahs didn't already destroy?

Doesn't actually do it, mind you. Just talks about it.

I predict the Left would rage at how could Trump even think of destroying the very last remaining cultural site left to the Bahais, without mentioning that they used to have a whole LOT of cultural sites before the mullahs destroyed them systematically.

At no point would they do or say anything to protect a Bahais cultural site from the mullahs. They would only matter as a tool to use against Trump.

And they will preen as our moral superiors while they do so.

Achilles said...

Drago said...


It's no mystery at all.

obama wanted and wants Iran to have the bomb to act as a Middle East counterweight to Israel, a nation he despises with every fiber of his being.

Sticking it to America along the way was just gravy.


This is not quite right. These people do not care about any specific country or people. They care about power.

Their power.

Over as many people as possible.

Israel and the United States are just obstacles.

And the US is the bigger obstacle in this conflict.

Drago said...

ARM: "He did, by shutting up. You have apparently failed to notice, but Americans do not have a good reputation in Iran. Go figure."

Yeah, obama courageously shut up, at the very moment a murderous totalitarian islamic supremacist dictatorship was teetering.

Just like obama courageously didn't back up his moronic Red Line pledge in Syria.

Just like obama courageously refused to deliver military weaponry to the Ukrainians when Putin moved in.....the very Putin that obama pledged more "flexibility" to, "after the next election".

Just like obama courageously refused to provide missile defense systems to the Poles when Putin and his boys were crowding their border to send a message.

Gee, that obama, he sure seems reluctant to call out his little islamic lovelies, doesn't he? But if you are the Brits or the Israeli's then you have cultural artifacts sent back to Britain in crates and you send the Israeli Prime Minister out the back entrance of the White House....after making him wait to see you for several hours while you eat dinner upstairs in the personal quarters of the White House.

Yeah, that obama, always courageously doing right by everyone.

Tell us more ARM. But this time, at least put some real effort into propping up the BS potemkin facade.

narciso said...

she should wear a belly dancer outfit, when asking these sorts of questions,


https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/scott-whitlock/2020/01/07/abc-cbs-toss-softballs-top-iranian-when-are-you-going-hit-us

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

in Arabic, it's "Al Jaqazzeri"

...maybe, we follow up with an Al Kaboom!

onomatopoeia may possibly be built into the Arabic language

Sheridan said...

"A Republic - if you can keep it" - B. Franklin
"It's the law! - if you can enforce it." - Anon.

Rosalyn C. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
walter said...

(I meant rockets. Far better)

FullMoon said...

Off topic but exciting news:

After Inga and her gang doxxed the kid,

COVINGTON, Ky. (FOX19) - CNN agreed Tuesday to settle a lawsuit with Covington Catholic student Nick Sandmann.

The amount of the settlement was not made public during a hearing at the federal courthouse in Covington, Kentucky.

Sandmann’s lawsuit sought $800 million from CNN, the Washington Post and NBC Universal.

Trial dates are still not set for Sandmann’s lawsuit against NBC Universal and the Washington Post.

The Washington Post suit sought $250 million. A federal judge let a portion of the suit go forward after The Post filed a motion to dismiss it.

https://www.fox19.com/2020/01/07/cnn-settles-lawsuit-with-nick-sandmann/

Drago said...

Qwinn: "Doesn't actually do it, mind you. Just talks about it.

I predict the Left would rage at how could Trump even think of destroying the very last remaining cultural site left to the Bahais, without mentioning that they used to have a whole LOT of cultural sites before the mullahs destroyed them systematically."

I recall some time back, 10 or 15 years (?), Limbaugh did this thing on his radio show where he decided if abortions are all okey dokey with the lefties then for a short while whenever a liberal/dem/lefty called in Rush would perform a "phone call abortion" or something.

He'd run some sound effects of flush and kick the caller off.

Oh how the lefties screamed and screamed and screamed about how wrong that all was....at the very moment across the country they were carving up actual babies and selling off the baby body parts.

That's our lefties/LLR-lefties.

Inga said...

“Keep bashing the military and siding with Iran.”

Comments like this make me think you are bat shit crazy. I don’t ever bash the military. My daughter is a Navy Chief and has served since 2002 and has been deployed to Afghanistan. I’ve belonged to a Military Mothers group all those years and attended many functions put on by the Navy over these past years. So when you talk as if you’ve lost your mind, I can only surmise that you have an unfortunate affliction.

Rosalyn C. said...

Trump doesn't act sanctimoniously about obeying "the law." He's seen (from his experience with politicians when Trump was a real estate developer) how laws are made and remade for the benefit of special interest groups -- so he follows the law because he prefers to avoid the hassles of not obeying the law.

I took "cultural" sites to refer to places such as soccer stadiums which are an extremely important aspect of Iranian culture. Remember when a woman set herself on fire to protest that women were not allowed to attend soccer games? Try to imagine a woman in the US setting herself on fire because of a soccer game? A difference in culture for sure.

And there are Iranian bath houses which also are very important to their culture. If they were bombed, well, what a blow that would be for Iranian men.

Of course the concept of "culture" in the West refers to objects d'art, opera and so forth, we don't see our football as an important aspect to our "culture," but of course it is.

narciso said...

and pulling all forces out of Iraq, made it possible for Baghdadi to move across the board into Syria, where they could regroup,

Friendo said...

Freder Frederson @3:34: "that he did not come up with the list out of what would be militarily necessary"

And how the fuck would you know what's "militarily necessary", dickhead?

Achilles said...

walter said...
bleh,
They may put missiles in houses, but c'mon. Standards.


We watched the taliban wire up a house/compound for 3 days.

We watched them drag a wire to a little shitbox mudhut 500 meters away on a little rise.

We were told we could not blow up that house.

We had to put a picture on the board telling the rotating units not to go there.

That compound is a "cultural site" to the likes of ARM and Inga and Obama. The ROE's came straight from him.

A "cultural site" to them is any place where service members are killed.

We know exactly what Obama wanted and exactly whose side they are on.

Drago said...

FullMoon: "Off topic but exciting news:
After Inga and her gang doxxed the kid,"

The lefties doxxed highschooler Sandman and his classmates, went after universities to deny these students entry, lied about them continuously and called them racists and nazi's and white supremacists.

Lies on top of lies.

For Soleimani? Praise, poetry readings, deep concern and, in some cases, reverence.

That's our lefties/LLR-lefties.

Qwinn said...

Still not seeing a single lefty tear or harsh word for Iran for all the Bahais cultural sites the mullahs destroyed.

Rage and national news when Trump talks about the possibility of targeting a cultural site the mullas want to protect.

Absolutely not one fucking word about the fait accompli of the mullahs actually destroying cultural sites for 40 years.

But they seemed so dang sincere in their worry and pearl clutching! Their deep deep respect and passion for protecting culture!

What could possibly explain it?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Trump's actions have unified the Iranian people behind the clerics and the military. Obama's didn't. It's not complicated.

They may hate their leadership but they hate the US government even more. It's not complicated.

Ultimately the Iranian people have to overthrow their dictators by themselves. Funneling US money to Iranian protest groups would have been a quick way to discredit them since they were already accused of being western tools.

Beasts of England said...

I’m upset with Drago for addressing Obama without the proper and reverential adjective ‘magnificent’.

Phidippus said...

Rabel is correct. Our dear Hostess is overthinking it, as is her wont in certain situations. The message is for the Iranian rulers, not for the media or the government class here. Personally I think he should have left his original statement as it was, unqualified, but I suppose that it was a matter of political calculation in an election year. But we know what he's saying (unless we overthink it).

I agree that if the Iranians place military assets adjacent to "cultural" sites, whatever those might be (and who gets to decide that?), they're gone if push comes to shove, and screw what the chattering class says. They can build new ones once they acquire a civilization, should that ever come to pass.

The sooner those murderous idiots get smacked and smacked good, the better off we will all be. Letting them get away with their barbarism just encourages them to up the ante.

Drago said...

Admiral Inga: "I’ve belonged to a Military Mothers group all those years and attended many functions put on by the Navy over these past years."

Well, no wonder you felt qualified to lecture others on Far East Cyber-Security and Communications Connectivity Military Exercises.

I mean, you're a regular Clausewitz.

BTW, after that last comment of yours, perhaps you would like to take the time to apologize for lying repeatedly and calling Carter Page, Naval Academy Graduate/Naval Intel Officer and CIA asset a treasonous traitor and russian spy.

Now would be a terrific time for you take back your despicable lies about a Naval Officer you laughingly lied about. Repeatedly. For years. With no evidence.

Achilles said...

Inga said...
“Keep bashing the military and siding with Iran.”

Comments like this make me think you are bat shit crazy. I don’t ever bash the military. My daughter is a Navy Chief and has served since 2002 and has been deployed to Afghanistan. I’ve belonged to a Military Mothers group all those years and attended many functions put on by the Navy over these past years. So when you talk as if you’ve lost your mind, I can only surmise that you have an unfortunate affliction.

Nobody believes you Inga.

You are a noted liar and hoax believer. You supported Obama.

You want to take away our freedom.

Everything you say and do is aimed at making our mission impossible.

We see you.

We overwhelmingly view you and your friends as enemies.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

narciso said...
pulling all forces out of Iraq


This has been Trump's stated position, at times. Of course he so completely lacks the ability to think strategically that you see whatever you want if you look hard enough. This is what Ann Coulter saw.

Achilles said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Trump's actions have unified the Iranian people behind the clerics and the military. Obama's didn't. It's not complicated.

That is just really stupid.

Big Mike said...

In December 2013 Barack Obama blew up a wedding procession, injuring the bride and killing members of the wedding party, under the mistaken assumption that it was a terrorist convoy. Neither Freder nor readering nor Howard nor any other critic of Trump’s action and Trump’s tweets has standing to complain unless they can provide a link to comments made at that time where they condemned Obama’s rash action.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Achilles said...
You supported Obama.


As did, and do, the majority of Americans.

narciso said...

much like the fellow travelers and dupes, said the soviet union was a legitimate regime, there was about nearly 60 years in which we regarded that as true, since fdr recognized it,

Drago said...

Beasts of England: "I’m upset with Drago for addressing Obama without the proper and reverential adjective ‘magnificent’."

Yep.

Banned Commenter LLR-lefty Chuck is really going to let me have it later on for that one!

Chuck will not countenance even the slightest mild or tangential criticism of his beloved "magnificent" obama.

Drago said...

ARM: "As did, and do, the majority of Americans."

Well then:

Iranian Green Revolution marchers in the street: We need help!

ARM and obama and the obama fans: Drop dead.

Later ARM: Gee, that obama really stood up for the Iranian people, didn't he?.....

.......(what ARM didn't tell anyone was the obama stood up for the Iranians who happened to be the very mad mullah islamic supremacists running the joint and murdering gays and gunning down women in the streets)

Very very "courageous" indeed.

So much "courage".

It's really overwhelming, all this "courage" on display from obama.

FullMoon said...

Ultimately the Iranian people have to overthrow their dictators by themselves.
Removing people who murder protesters may help accomplish your goal
Funneling US money to Iranian protest groups would have been a quick way to discredit them since they were already accused of being western tools.

Discredit them with who, the government who does not want to be removed?

Who accused them of being western tools? The opposition? Wow, that hurts.

BTW, noticed your opinion absent regarding Hong Kong and China, you bein' the China expert and all.

Qwinn said...

Hey lefties! In case you missed it! I posted the details and link for the Iranian mullah's systematic destruction of the Bahais culture up there at 4:13pm!

In case you missed it.

Cause we know how important not destroying cultural sites is to you.

Cause you're telling us that. Over and over.

Well, when Trump is involved, anyway.

YoungHegelian said...

ARM,

Trump's actions have unified the Iranian people behind the clerics and the military.

You have no proof of that. If you do, produce it. State burials in dictatorships are often coerced affairs.

What I'm hearing from my friend who works with a bunch of Iranian expatriates who are following the news on Farsi VOA is that they're thrilled the sonafabitch is dead, and kudos to Trump for doing it. Now, needless to say, one is an expatriate from Iran mostly because of opposition to the present regime, but there it is, limited of a data set as it may be.

I imagine that the Revolutionary Guard and all the minions it could muster was told to turn out or else, and they did. But, what the populace really thinks is as much a mystery to you as it is to the rest of us.

Drago said...

I guess the only way obama could have showed MORE "courage" would be to have massaged BOTH inner thighs of russian President Medvedev when obama promised his Kremlin pal Putin "more flexibility after the next election".

And to think, it was all captured on camera, right there, for all the world to see.

Lefty/dem/LLR-lefty reaction? Nothing to see here, move along.....

Inga said...

“Nobody believes you Inga.

You are a noted liar and hoax believer. You supported Obama.

You want to take away our freedom.

Everything you say and do is aimed at making our mission impossible.

We see you.

We overwhelmingly view you and your friends as enemies.”

You know Achilles, there is HELP for veterans suffering from PTSD or mental health issues.

PTSD Help

Sheridan said...

BCARM - "Trump's actions have unified the Iranian people behind the clerics and the military." And you know this how? All of the people are unified? Can you see into the hearts and minds of millions of Iranians as they huddle in their dwellings away from the hobnailed boot of their minders? Did you think the same thing of Obama, how all of the USA rallied behind him when he dismissed the Green Spring?

Drago said...

ARM: "Trump's actions have unified the Iranian people behind the clerics and the military."

LOLOLOLOL

The mad mullahs had to send armed guards into the streets to round up "protestors" to get them to participate.

There are videos online of IRGC-types shooting up the streets to drive people to the "spontaneous" "protest".

LOL

It's amazing isn't it? How the lefties like ARM will simply accept any propaganda any lefty/islamic supremacist dictatorship sends his way?

The "pravda"/Baghdad Bob jokes write themselves.

Sheridan said...

Drago beat me to it....

Drago said...

Inga: "You know Achilles, there is HELP for veterans suffering from PTSD or mental health issues.

PTSD Help"

See?

lefties gonna lefty.

Seeing Red said...

This has been Trump's stated position, at times. Of course he so completely lacks the ability to think strategically that you see whatever you want if you look hard enough. This is what Ann Coulter saw.


You’re quoting Coulter. Are you desperate?

Or

If the black turbans were a wee bit more patient, they could have gotten what they wanted.

But they weren’t, or Soleimani was so arrogant, he blew it and him up.

Beasts of England said...

No one with a relative serving, or having served, would be so flippant about PTSD or any mental health issue related to service in our armed forces. I can think of no action more vulgar.

Drago said...

Inga, are you working on that apology to that Naval Officer you lied repeatedly about for 3+ years?

I'll bet your daughter would be very very proud of you for lying about an honorably serving Naval Officer.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago, what do you think the average Iranian sees when he looks at the US government? If we invaded do you think we would be greeted as liberators? Can you grasp the concept that the our government does not look like the good guys to a lot of nations? Currently we have Trump's son-in-law regularly fellating the Saudis, the regional enemies of the Iranian people and the perpetrators of 9/11. It is an indescribable embarrassment to our country, to be so supine in the face of these fanatics. Yet here we are.

Drago said...

Beasts of England: "No one with a relative serving, or having served, would be so flippant about PTSD or any mental health issue related to service in our armed forces. I can think of no action more vulgar."

Correct.

Inga said...

“Inga: "You know Achilles, there is HELP for veterans suffering from PTSD or mental health issues.

PTSD Help"

See?

lefties gonna lefty.”

Drago, if you give a shit about your fellow Veteran, Achilles, you wouldn’t enable his delusions, unless you are as bat shit as he is. You would encourage him to seek help. The things he says are paranoid and not normal.

Drago said...

ARM: "Drago, what do you think the average Iranian sees when he looks at the US government?"

I certainly wouldn't be asking you.

You should spend more time revamping and relaunching your moronic "Great Awakening" failed schtick.

ThunderChick said...

You have apparently failed to notice, but Americans do not have a good reputation in Iran. Go figure.

Well, actually, it depends. Several years ago (in the late 1990s, early 2000s) a family friend's daughter (who was a journalist) traveled around Iran. Most of the local people she met liked Americans, just not the U.S. government. A lot of the people she met did not support the Iranian leaders but were too afraid to speak out against them. I'm sure the Iranians who support the current regime hate Americans - mostly government and military leaders/employees and elites who reap the benefits of supporting Ayatollah Khamenei. I read a good book years ago called "Reading Lolita in Tehran" by Azar Nafisi, an English professor in Iran who had a secret book club where the members read Western novels. If they were caught doing so by government officials, they would have been killed. I'm sure those ladies liked Americans.

Qwinn said...

Inga:

Achilles isn't paranoid at all. You are the enemy. You prove it again and again every single day.

Drago said...

Admiral Inga: "Drago, if you give a shit about your fellow Veteran, Achilles, you wouldn’t enable his delusions, unless you are as bat shit as he is. You would encourage him to seek help. The things he says are paranoid and not normal."

See Beasts! She simply cannot help herself.

There is reason the vast majority of military members refuse to vote for Inga and her lunatic pals.

And no amount of fake Military Times/USA Today fake polls will change that.

James K said...

What ever happened to “Take Trump seriously but not literally”?

Drago said...

James K: "What ever happened to “Take Trump seriously but not literally”?"

The dems made that an impeachable offense?

That and ordering sweet and sour sauce.

And having more than 1 scoop of ice cream at a time.

And Diet Cokes. Those are also especially bad.

Beasts of England said...

’See Beasts! She simply cannot help herself.’

Just when I think those on the left can’t sink any lower.

Drago said...

Frankly I'm surprised Inga has time to post here today. I understand there are supposed to be alot more Pro-Soleimani rallies held by lefties today across the country.

How much is the dem GoFundMe for the mad mullahs up to now? Probably alot less than the $150 billion obama gave the mad mullahs for helping him to hate Israel and US more.

And I'll bet some of that money Iran put up for the bounty on Trump's head came from that haul. No doubt obama is enjoying that to no end.

What the Iranians didn't realize is they could have simply asked the American left/LLR-left and those guys would have coughed up the cash! Gee, and I heard the Persian were excellent businessmen (not businesswomen, because ARM's wonderful mad mullahs aren't really that big on the idea of chicks running businesses)

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