December 2, 2019

"The United States of America is a signal, for the world, for everyone. When America says, for instance, that Ukraine is a corrupt country..."

"... that is the hardest of signals. It might seem like an easy thing to say, that combination of words: Ukraine is a corrupt country. Just to say it and that’s it. But it doesn’t end there. Everyone hears that signal. Investments, banks, stakeholders, companies, American, European, companies that have international capital in Ukraine, it’s a signal to them that says, ‘Be careful, don’t invest.’ Or, ‘Get out of there.’ This is a hard signal. For me it’s very important for the United States, with all they can do for us, for them really to understand that we are a different country, that we are different people. It’s not that those things don’t exist. They do. All branches of government were corrupted over many years, and we are working to clean that up. But that signal from them is very important.... During my meeting with [Trump], I said that I don’t want our country to have this image. For that, all he has to do is come and have a look at what’s happening, how we live, what kinds of people we are. I had the sense that he heard me. I had that sense. At least during the meeting, he said, 'Yes, I see, you’re young, you’re new, and so on.'... Ukraine is different now. Ukraine wants to stop it. There is no radicalism. No one is killing and eating anyone in that country. See for yourself. Come on.'... Look, I never talked to the President from the position of a quid pro quo. That’s not my thing. … I don’t want us to look like beggars. But you have to understand. We’re at war. If you’re our strategic partner, then you can’t go blocking anything for us. I think that’s just about fairness. It’s not about a quid pro quo. It just goes without saying."

Said Volodymyr Zelensky, interviewed in TIME.

Trump's reaction:

124 comments:

Dave Begley said...

Why didn't the NYT or WaPo get this interview? Or maybe they weren't interested because it isn't anti-Trump.

I can see why the Ukraine elected this guy. It sure would be interesting to see how he did it. From stand up comic to elected politician. News!

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

No one on the left cares about the corrupt Money Laundry loop. The former leaders of Ukraine opened the door to VP Biden's money laundering loop. US tax payer = sucker.

-Our tax dollars go to Ukraine.
-VP's son is on Ukrainian energy company board (for no reason) and pockets millions.

USA media are shoulder to shoulder lock-step: "That's a conspiracy!" because shut up.

mccullough said...

Ukraine isn’t a strategic partner or an ally of the US. It was dumb of the US to try and back up NATO to Russia’s door in the 90s. Some Americans like The Biden’s made money there. Let them defend Ukraine from Russia, which controlled Ukraine since Catherine the Great.

Ken B said...

Trump is right. If people actually read this, and listened to what *the actual participant in the call* says this would be over. Instead we are hectored about what people who weren’t on the call imagined.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

BRIBERY!

WITCHCRAFT!

WORSE THAN NIXON!

THE WALLS ARE CLOSING IN!

SHCITT HAS DIRECT EVIDENCE OF RUSSIAN COLLUSION!

DEVASTATING TESTIMONY!

DEMOCRACY DIES IN DARKNESS!

Mary Beth (the commenter) said...

It sure would be interesting to see how he did it. From stand up comic to elected politician.

Probably similar to the way Trump did, spoke to the voters instead of at them.

Ken B said...

Mccullough contradicts himself in two sentences. If NATO “backed up to Russia's door” it needs Ukraine to do that. And the USA has treaties with Ukraine.

The Crack Emcee said...

"If the Radical Left Democrats were sane, which they are not,..."

tim maguire said...

It's jarring, the disconnect between what Zelensky was trying to say and what Trump wants us to remember, but Trump is right and the part he highlights is more important to Americans than the part Zelensky wants highlighted.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

btw- I do want that quid pro quo.

I demand to know about all of the corruption between the former government of Ukraine and the Obama administration.

Hillary - Biden - the CIA and the FBI - why can't we see or know about the corruption?

Chuck said...

And of course, releasing the military aid and the potential Javelin sales was just one part of U.S. support for Ukraine versus the Russians and Putin. Part of an ongoing process to this day. And Ukraine -- Zelensky included -- remain fearful of what a President like Trump might do with the alliance. Even now. Notwithstanding the release of the aid early this fall when the Trump administration was caught and outed for withholding it.

It's a perfectly reasonable fear on the part of Zelensky. He has to tread very carefully for fear of upsetting Trump on Trump's terms (which have nothing to do with corruption investigations and everything to do with his personal interest.).

The "corruption investigation" angle is just a bad joke now. Sondland said it; what Trump wanted was the announcement of an investigation. There was no concern about any real investigation. And really, why would we ever outsource the investigation of U.S. citizens to Ukraine, if Ukraine is as corrupt as Trump has claimed? As many pundits are reporting, we don't even have an extradition treaty with Ukraine. And apart from withholding the military aid in order to pressure Zelensky to go on CNN and announce an investigation of Burisma and the Bidens, what has the Trump administration done to investigate and/or confront corruption?

Scott said...

Is Ukraine more corrupt or less corrupt than New Jersey? That might be a useful point of comparison.

tim maguire said...

Ken B said...Mccullough contradicts himself in two sentences. If NATO “backed up to Russia's door” it needs Ukraine to do that.

When the Warsaw Pact collapsed, NATO should have declared victory and gone home. Instead they expanded, drifted, and mission creep set in so now we are saddled with a paranoid (but are they, really?) Russia and excessive obligations towards Turkey.

gilbar said...

mccullough said...
Ukraine SHOULDN'T BE a strategic partner or an ally of the US

fify

To quote the great Homer: Wishing won't make it so

gilbar said...

Is Ukraine more corrupt or less corrupt than Georgia?

traditionalguy said...

Zelenski is 100% correct about the WWW tool and its influence by the bold Trump (and the Q disclosures) on the rest of the world. The toothpaste is out of the tube. Corrupt governments being supported by fake news are facing angry demonstrators in the street with pitchforks.

The paid off US Congress persons are goners...but maybe, just maybe, Impeachment can save their scam.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

I bet the HIllary-Brennan-RiceBowl-Schitt corrupt power structure would love to suicide the new president of Ukraine.

he is not cooperating.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

"If the Radical Left Democrats were sane"

Well, Democrats generally...History tells us that there's always, always, a price to be paid for lunacy. It'll be fascinating to see what the costs are for the Wonderland the Democrats currently inhabit. Unfortunately, the costs don't always fall on the lunatics themselves.

traditionalguy said...

Georgia is less corrupt than Ukraine or Alabama.

wildswan said...

I don't see how a member of the US Congress could vote to impeach Trump because only one side of the story has been heard. There's no doubt that Captain Kangaroo set his committee rules on evidence gathering in such a way that the Republicans could not present their side of the case to the American people. Now impeaching a US President over something in the Ukraine was always going to be a hard sell because because who really feels that they know what is going on there? Reverse an election because of what is alleged by a political party to have been going on in an unknown but corrupt country? However if each side had presented its case and the issue had been thrashed out in the open - well - then perhaps by the end of the process one might feel one knew what had happened. But what did Captain Kangaroo do? He set the rules for evidence gathering in such a way that it is perfectly plain that only side has been presented. What did the news do? Repeated that one side and never sought out facts or opinions on the other side. If only one side has been presented in Congress and in the news, then no responsible member of the public can suppose they know what happened in the Ukraine and no responsible member of Congress can vote to impeach. If members of Congress vote to set aside an election because they accept as true a one-sided presentation of alleged facts, they themselves should be flung out of office as irresponsible, partisan hacks.

Ken B said...

Tim m
What is jarring? Zelensky was trying to the best for his country, and Trump was trying to the best for his own. They agreed on some steps both saw as advantageous. Nothing unusual in that.

mccullough said...

Ukraine isn’t a NATO member. Even the Bushes and Clinton weren’t that stupid.

And Obama wasn’t stupid enough to waste time on the place. That’s why he put Biden in charge of Ukraine policy. He was telling Russia that he’s not as stupid as the Bushes and Clinton.

Trump is saying the same thing. He doesn’t give a shit about Ukraine either. Which is good.

Iman said...

The Ukraine was doing so well during the 0bama Administration, nothing to fear back then.

Just another victim of his Reign of Error.

Michael K said...

When the Warsaw Pact collapsed, NATO should have declared victory and gone home. Instead they expanded, drifted, and mission creep set in so now we are saddled with a paranoid (but are they, really?) Russia and excessive obligations towards Turkey.

Yes and it is finally being said.

mccullough said...

Ukraine is a shithole. No need to get involved. It’s just a place for corrupt Americans to make a few bucks off the American government dollars.

Mike Sylwester said...

Apparently, Zelensky still thinks that Time is an important magazine, to which he should grant an interview.

William said...

Zelensky's sitcom is on Netflix. I've watched a couple of episodes. In the sitcom, he makes the point that everyone in the Ukraine, including his parents, are outrageously corrupt. Zelensky rose to power by making fun of the corruption in the Ukraine. I'm not sure that he's the ideal spokesman to speak out against stereotyping Ukrainians as corrupt. Maybe they can get Borat to make a series of PSA's about how unfair it is to negatively stereotype former republics of the USSR.

cubanbob said...

Leave it to Chuck to get exactly backwards. Good job, Chuck.

Perhaps Althouse can post a poll comparing Ukrainian corruption to and which is worst:

Chicago/Illinois
Rhode Island
New Jersey
NYC/Albany
Add others

Ann Althouse said...

"Zelensky's sitcom is on Netflix. I've watched a couple of episodes. In the sitcom, he makes the point that everyone in the Ukraine, including his parents, are outrageously corrupt. Zelensky rose to power by making fun of the corruption in the Ukraine. I'm not sure that he's the ideal spokesman to speak out against stereotyping Ukrainians as corrupt. Maybe they can get Borat to make a series of PSA's about how unfair it is to negatively stereotype former republics of the USSR."

He's not saying Ukraine isn't corrupt, only that our saying it's corrupt when it's not completely corrupt is hurting their chances of doing well with banks and businesses.

Roughcoat said...

Ukraine may be a shithole, but it produces a disproportinate number of spectacularly beautiful women (e.g., Erika Eleniak). Any guy who grew up in the Chicago area, as I did, knows this and appreciates Ukraine for just that reason.

Char Char Binks said...

Zelensky's sitcom showed that everyone in Ukraine is "outrageously corrupt", and sitcoms never exaggerate for comic effect, and if it's true, he shouldn't try to change that?

Ken B said...

William
In sitcoms, do you make points or jokes? Why isn’t making mock of something an effective way to fight it? Zelensky seems to be the most effective anti corruption politician in the Ukraine. That makes his repudiation of the Democrats' charges even more convincing IMO.

J. Farmer said...

No one is killing and eating anyone in that country.

Was that a reference to the holodomor?

mccullough said...

Zelensky is a pawn on the chessboard. He’s an eloquent one. If he were a smart one, he would have handed Trump the Biden’s on a platter.

tim maguire said...

Ken B said...
Tim m
What is jarring? Zelensky was trying to the best for his country, and Trump was trying to the best for his own. They agreed on some steps both saw as advantageous. Nothing unusual in that.


Uhhh...the part where Trump completely ignored Zelensky's message about the need for Ukraine's allies to stand with Ukraine and instead focused completely on a throw-away line that meant little to Zelensky.

Ken B said...

Farmer
It’s a reference to Alferd Packer.

AllenS said...

I have to agree that Ukraine produces a number of spectacularly beautiful women, but so does the rest of the former soviet block. One thing that I've also noticed is that none of them have public hair. Who knew?

AllenS
Researcher

Ken B said...

Tim
But Trump isn’t discussing foreign policy, he is discussing the charge against him. So he only highlights the relevant part.

Roughcoat said...

One thing that I've also noticed is that none of them have public hair. Who knew?

Well, uh ... the ones I knew had pubic hair. But that was back in the 60s and 70s. Evidently the fashion has changed since then.*

*I hear it's changing back. Thank God.

mccullough said...

The only relevant part of Ukraine for Trump is exposing the Bidens. Trump is a realist.

Skylark said...

"*I hear it's changing back. Thank God.”

What woman really wants to look like a porn actress?

Skylark said...

"Part of an ongoing process to this day.”

Which Obama blocked.

readering said...

I guess Trump isn't enjoying this impeachment thing much.

Howard said...

More pro quo to keep them in quid

roesch/voltaire said...

Yes it is about fairness and the hold was not fair.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Every Ukrainian President had run as the corruption fighter but to only get elected and drain the country's coffers.

But that is what Ukrainians expect and consider normal.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Shh. No one tell Roesch Obama blocked lethal aid the who time he was president and the Ukrainians were fighting and dying against Russian special forces "volunteers."

That was really unfair.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Who=whole

Skylark said...

"es it is about fairness and the hold was not fair.”

Was it fair for Obama to withhold lethal aid of any kind? Should he have been impeached for it? Apparently the big complaint of lefties is that Trump didn’t reverse Obama policies with enough alacrity.

Ukraine meddled in US elections and made publicly clear through the mouthes of elected officials, that they preferred Hillary. Did they honestly expect no pushback if they bet on the wrong horse? This is why you stay out of other country’s elections. There was a Politico article you may have heard of about Ukraine getting caught off guard by the election results and doing some furious backpedalling on their support for Hillary.

Unknown said...

The corruption in the impeachment proceedings, is it worse or better than the corruption in the Ukraine?

Олег Дамаскин said...

I understand Zelensky that after Trump’s statement about corrupt Ukraine, the attitude of foreign economic and financial organizations towards Ukraine has worsened, and not improved, according to Trump.
I wonder if Trump talked about corruption in Russia?

Skylark said...

It might seem like an easy thing to say, that combination of words: Ukraine is a corrupt country. Just to say it and that’s it. But it doesn’t end there. Everyone hears that signal. Investments, banks, stakeholders, companies, American, European, companies that have international capital in Ukraine, it’s a signal to them that says, ‘Be careful, don’t invest.’

What does it say about the US that our former Secretary of State, Hillary, was hoovering up graft in the hundreds of millions from countries with issues before our Department of State. What does it say about the US that the former Vice President was collecting millions and millions through his son in graft?

Powerful Democrats decide about what is and is not the law, and don’t you deplorables forget it!

JackWayne said...

Macron is trying to make himself and France relevant again. And he is almost to the point of recognizing that Russia should be a part of NATO. I doubt he has the moxie to go there. It would be a good way for us to get out.

Skylark said...

This whole thing is because Trump talked, during his campaign, about easing tensions with Russia while the “Military Industrial Complex” as Eisenhower put it, was pushing for more tensions, more weapons sales, more access to graft.

Birkel said...

Obama gives no aid of consequence and it's jake.
Trump delays aid a few weeks and The Sky is Falling.

Conclusion:
Leftist collectivists think everybody else is stupid.
Another case of projection, sadly.

Birkel said...

Chuck said "Sondland said it..."
And Sondland also said NOT it...

Racist fopdoodles are a sad lot.

Yancey Ward said...

Ukraine is hopelessly corrupt. This belief that the corruption there can be fixed is just sheer idiocy. Even Zelensky doesn't really believe it. The Ukraine is the equivalent of the junkie kid who promises to go to rehab if only you will give him enough money to pay the rent for next month. Trump shouldn't have released the aid at all. The IMF shouldn't have given the multi-billion dollar bailout. The country itself should be partitioned so that the ethnic Russian parts join Russia itself- there is a deal to be made here for peace, but Ukraine has to let go those ethnically Russian portions of the country.

Any money or aid you send there will just be stolen by hook or by crook.

Chuck said...

The huge Gordon Sondland reveal almost everyone missed.

Birkel there is an overwhelming temptation on my part to include with that link a countering personal attack on you, commensurate with your personal attack on me. I want you to know just how much I want to get into it with you, personally. Like, you can't even imagine.

But this is a new day and a new time. It's impeachment time. Time to focus on details and evidence, and to be disciplined in the presentation of that evidence.

Althouse doesn't want personal back-and-forth commenting. You should stop it. Don't start it with me.

Gordon Sondland testified under oath that he understood the President only wanted the announcement of an investigation, and that was how the hold on the aid was conditioned.

roesch/voltaire said...

Yes it was unfair that under the Obama administration 850 million dollars in aid was provided, some of it military, but not lethal, I grant.

tim maguire said...

Chuck, from your link:

SONDLAND: I never heard, Mr. Goldman, anyone say that the investigations had to start or be completed. The only thing I heard from Mr. Giuliani or otherwise was that they had to be announced.

Sondland does not say Trump didn't want an investigation. And as with so much of Sondland's "bombshell" testimony--the really damning stuff took place only in his imagination.

Beasts of England said...

’Sondland testified under oath that he understood...’

Such powerful testimony!! Almost admissible.

Achilles said...

Chuck said...
The huge Gordon Sondland reveal almost everyone missed.

Is Chuck really a lawyer?

I don't think he is.

Not a single thing stated by any of these witnesses so far is admissible in court. It is all conjecture, speculation, and hearsay.

A lawyer would know that.

But Chuck does not.

Hmm...

Skylark said...

"The huge Gordon Sondland reveal almost everyone missed.”

Chuck must have missed his “reveal” getting shredded under questioning, since he seems to only watch CNN and MSNBC and read the WaPo.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Was it fair of Biden to threaten to withhold 1 billion in desperately needed aid to Ukraine unless they fired the prosecutor investigating the corrupt company that was paying Biden's coke-head spawn millions of dollars?

Can we impeach Biden and Obama? If not, why not?

Skylark said...

"roesch/voltaire said...
Yes it was unfair that under the Obama administration 850 million dollars in aid was provided, some of it military, but not lethal, I grant.”

What about the billion plus that Biden threatened to withhold unless they fired the guy investigating the company his son was working for. How do we know his motives were pure? The ‘D’ after his name. Don’t bring up that Europe wanted him out, because if you date those stories, they all come after a meeting that Ciaramella had with Ukraine prosecutors that Shokin needed to go.

Unknown said...

Chuck asks why Trump would want Ukrainian help with an investigation into things that happened in Ukraine. Perhaps Chuck can tell us who has the most legal clout in Ukraine, a Ukrainian prosecutor or a US Attorney? Who is best able to compel testimony from Ukrainian citizens residing in Ukraine?

Skylark said...

They can’t impeach BIden, but they can censure him.

Skylark said...

"Gordon Sondland testified under oath that he understood”

I think that his word was “presumed."

Skylark said...

It seems pretty clear that the IMF is corrupt too, covering for Biden when Biden panicked about his honor “as a Biden” being dragged through the mud during an election year. I haven’t seen a lot of evidence that Shokin was corrupt.

Yancey Ward said...

Chuck, that "bombshell" is Sondland again trying to read the minds of people, both in regards to what an "announcement of investigtions" meant, but also its link to the aid in question. Even you are guessing that all Trump was interested in was an announcement, not an actual investigation. Trump may or may not been interested in anything other than getting an announcement, but neither of us know this and neither does Sondland. You got any actual testimony from Sondland that isn't Sondland's opinion about what was going on? Sondland literally qualifies every thing out of his mouth with weasel words that try to hide the fact that he was opining. Indeed, the only part of his testimony that directly quoted anyone was part where he claims to have asked Trump what Trump wanted from Ukraine- the one where Trump said he wanted nothing. I think it about 50/50 that Sondland recorded that call, but the recording wasn't useful for what he intended.

Birkel said...

Fuck Chuck, racist fopdoodle and paid Leftist commenter.
Nothing you write matters to anybody.
Everybody mocks you.

Birkel said...

Gordon Sondland testifies that it was his belief, communicated to him by nobody EVER, that Trump wanted something but that Trump said he wanted nothing.

Chuck lies.
It's why we don't take his racist words at face value.

Birkel said...

Who had CNN links in the pool?
Step forward and claim your Fopdoodle Pool prize.

Achilles said...

roesch/voltaire said...
Yes it was unfair that under the Obama administration 850 million dollars in aid was provided, some of it military, but not lethal, I grant.

You cannot be an honest person and still support democrats at this point.

FullMoon said...

Ukraine is hopelessly corrupt. This belief that the corruption there can be fixed is just sheer idiocy. Even Zelensky doesn't really believe it.

Yeah, why is it assumed a new guy with good intentions would meet with any less resistance than Trump has had to deal with? When a life long politician is elected, he comes with connections and accomplices. Trump and Z come in basically alone .

Seeing Red said...

Chuck presumes almost everyone here missed the “huge” SOrland reveal?

I think it was already discussed here and since it was discounted by Sorland himself....

Face palm.

You’re an attorney, right?

Seeing Red said...

The older I get, the more I think I should have gone to law school.

I swear I could have passed the bar.

narciso said...

quelle surprise, now zelensky's patron is kolomoisky, the owner of the privat bank, which in turn owns burisma, the former is responsible for the lions share of 7.7 billion in lost us and imf secured loans,

narciso said...


https://twitter.com/ClimateAudit/status/1201331051110555648

narciso said...

I noticed that simpson and Frisch's book, is twice as thick as lee smith's but oddly has many more gaps in information,

daskol said...

I think Chuck is actually Elaine Chao.

daskol said...

The evidence is piling up.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Sondland again trying to read the minds of people

Like he read the minds of the three women he molested. Now that sondland is #metooed
And has been cancelled and we can ignore anything and everything he says.

Thems the rules, right?

Gospace said...

Yancey Ward said...
.... I think it about 50/50 that Sondland recorded that call, but the recording wasn't useful for what he intended.


And 999/1000 that EVERY Trump call is recorded by someone.

buwaya said...

The US shipped the first batch of Javelin missiles to Ukraine in 2018.

https://www.defensenews.com/flashpoints/2018/05/23/for-first-time-ukraine-showcases-its-american-made-javelin-missiles/

The discussion in 2019 concerned supplements to those.

mccullough said...

The US gives Ukraine tax dollars. They use some of those tax dollars to buy weapons from US defense contractors.

The Swamp

narciso said...

as je dyer pointed out, the javelins were private military sales,

the aid dollars concerned other matters,


https://apelbaum.wordpress.com/2019/09/29/how-to-finance-your-congressional-campaign-with-arms-sales/

buwaya said...

US non-military Aid to Ukraine was ongoing.
There was no special character to the Obama administrations aid program.

This was continued by the Trump administration.

https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/UKR?implementing_agency_id=1

mccullough said...

Money is fungible.

Republicans understand this when talking about Planned Parenthood.

narciso said...

the significant element is that the country team was in control of the funds, and had to be be colluding with the various oligarchs, from the ambassador, originally herbst (who ended up at the atlantic council) to vindman who was the attache, to jarecka who was the economic counselor, later finance minister, George kent was chief of mission, then anti corruption coordinator, you note a pattern,

Milwaukie guy said...

While Ukraine is corrupt and, sure, has a significant Russian minority in the East, it still worth giving it military aid.

The U.S. and the UK gave Ukraine security guarantees if they would give up the nuclear weapons they inherited from the Soviet Union. [In 2005, the U.S. also gave Ghaddafi guarantees that they would leave him alone in return for giving up Libya's nuclear program and stopped supporting terrorism.]

Backing security guarantees after countries give up nuclear weapons or research is in the interests of non-proliferation. Even if those countries kind suck.

mccullough said...

Where is this US Treaty in which the US government gave security guarantees to Ukraine?

W gave Libya a guarantee. It expired with his presidency. Just like Obama made a deal with Iran. That expired, too.

Shitty foreign policy from The Best and the Brightest

Oso Negro said...

It’s amazing how many experts on Ukraine are also Althouse posters! If any of you reside there routinely besides me, you are welcome to meet up at my dacha in Odessa for a New Year celebration. But if you are not there already please - stay the fuck out! I don’t want to see, hear, or smell an American while I am there.

narciso said...

the Budapest accord in 1994, the Libyan deal was more informal, interestingly a Libyan faction was among those lobbying the good colonel, according to his fara form

narciso said...

amateur researcher, going by Solomon, McIntyre apelbaum,

Michael K said...

The U.S. and the UK gave Ukraine security guarantees if they would give up the nuclear weapons

They f*U*ked up.

Jon Ericson said...

The Hat

Skylark said...

One of the depositions showed that part of the alarm in the Pentagon over the aid delay was from weapons manufacturers worried about revenue.

mccullough said...

The Budapest Memorandum?

What was the vote in the Senate to ratify it?

Bill Clinton made that deal. He’s not president anymore.

Obama wisely refused to go to war with Russia over it. Ukraine had 20 years to get its shit together. But they were too corrupt and inept.

The lesson is to get a Treaty. Taiwan did. The lesson for Taiwan is next time ensure that the President can’t terminate the Treaty without 2/3 consent of the Senate.

Every agreement with the US is written in water.

mccullough said...

Jim Comey made a shitload of money as General Counsel of Lockheed Martin.

The military-industrial complex expanded into the government-university complex, the treasury -Wall Street complex, etc.

Beaks need to get wet.

mccullough said...

Russia and China were also part of The Budapest Memorandum.

Canada accused Russia of violating the Memorandum by invading in 2014.

Canada did not, however, attack Russia.

The Clinton Years, like the Bush Years, were foreign policy idiocy.

Drago said...

readering: "I guess Trump isn't enjoying this impeachment thing much."

All of your "guesses" to date have been hilariously wrong.

Yours and LLR-lefty Chuck's.

This will be no different.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

LLR-lefty and Racist Poster Chuck: "Althouse doesn't want personal back-and-forth commenting. You should stop it. Don't start it with me."

Sorty chum. Racist posters who threaten women and attack children will receive no quarter, nor should they.

If you dont like it take it up with your lefty paymasters.

Drago said...

Its pretty clear that the only reason LLR-lefty Chuck is posting again despite being banned is that his beloved dem candidates are all sinking like rocks and Chuckies favorite, Slow Joe, is literally deteriorating before our eyes.

LLR-lefty Chuck thus lurches about recycling already debunked far left talking points trying to save the day for Team Left.

Sorry Chuckie. Its not working.

I am afraid there can be no other conclusion other than YOU are the Jerry Nadler of Althouseblog.

LOLOLOL

narciso said...

so you see from these links the wider picture, now crimea for reasons I've overlabored over, is not to be given up by the Russians, as much as we would give up texas, dialed up to eleventy,

Drago said...

Btw, did anyone catch what LLR-lefty Chuck's Other Gal Hero at MSNBC, Joy Reid, did with the Richard Spencer picture mixup?

I wonder if Chuck ever caught that or if he was simply too Into The MSNBC Moment, if you know what I mean?

Milwaukie guy said...

That's great. Get a country to eschew nuclear weapons and then fuck them up. I'm sure that has no effect on Iran and the Norks.

Howard said...

You're LLR lifemate posts hear because you keep flirting with him, Drago. Your like one of those girls who who says no but really means yes. Get a Room, it's getting awkward.

Kirk Parker said...

daskol,

"I think Chuck is actually Elaine Chao"

Now that's hilarious!

Left Bank of the Charles said...

The bribe was solicited, but never paid. It wasn’t a quid pro quo because Ukraine didn’t take the deal. But solicitation of a bribe is a crime in and of itself. Is that so hard to understand?

Republicans are missing an opportunity to trumpet the success of the whistleblower law in preventing a high crime from being committed. By not doing so, they are leaving Democrats a way out, if they are smart enough to take it.

narciso said...


Politico denying their own reporting:


https://mobile.twitter.com/ChuckRossDC/status/1201625059170889728

mccullough said...

Telling Ukraine President Jerry Lewis to investigate Burisma for paying Biden’s Cokehead Son millions or no more aid isn’t a high crime.

It’s how shit is done.

The Dems got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

Too bad. If they want to defend Cokehead Son for getting money for nothing, they are free to do that.

The Senate Trial will be great theater. John Kerry can explain why his Stepson was getting money from China along with Cokehead Son.

Watching these dipshits Take the Fifth will be hilarious. They can use Blasey Ford’s lawyers. Pelosi will pay for them

mccullough said...

A bribe is telling Jerry Lewis to allow a Trump Tower and Golf Course in Kiev in return for aid.

Telling a corrupt country to investigate Cokehead Son or no aid isn’t a bribe.

Ukraine is a shithole. Total waste of tax dollars. If Russia wants that shithole, they can have it.





Drago said...

Left Bank of the Charles: "The bribe was solicited, but never paid. It wasn’t a quid pro quo because Ukraine didn’t take the deal. But solicitation of a bribe is a crime in and of itself. Is that so hard to understand?"

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Too funny.

Birkel said...

A bribe is telling the president of Ukraine to let permits for a golf course be issued despite the fact the permits violate existing zoning laws and you will give them cash.

A bribe is not "do this perfectly legal thing and I too will do a perfectly legal thing."
It's not unusual.
It's not exceptional.
It's not controversial.

Except for the Orange Man Bad exception to all rules, everywhere.

Birkel said...

The best part, Drago, was Left Bank pretending he would offer good, valuable advice to Republicans.

Drago said...

Left Bank, along with readering and LLR C**** is one of the more "reliable" lefty hoax mongers here.

Lance N. said...

Is Impeachment really overturning an election? It's congress exercising it's constitutional right to fire the President and replace him with his, and the electoral college's, chosen successor. It's not like Hillary is suddenly going to be President.

The worse that happens is Trump loses a job that he doesn't get paid for.

Rusty said...

Lance N. said.
You ain't from around here, are you?
The only thing missing was; Yo, dude!

Lance N. said...

Nyet. I are from Wesconsign.

Just kidding. I'm from Iowa, but live overseas.

For what it's worth I felt the same about Clinton's impeachment. It wouldn't have been that big of a deal if he was removed from office. I didn't understand why Republicans wanted Gore to be President that bad.

Also, has anyone discussed how similar Trump and Bill Clinton are? It's insane how much they have in common.

Jamie said...

Lance, timing matters. There's nothing at stake in the Ukraine business that couldn't wait until after the election, if the D's only wanted to "exercise its constitutional right to fire the president" on the basis of his actual activities in office. They'd have a stronger case in the court of public opinion, in fact, if they did: they could say that they didn't want to sully the political process and would wait until after the rotation - and therefore, D's, get out and vote so we can Do the Right Thing! They could even have added, "But voters should be aware that if Pres. Trump is reelected, it will be in spite of his corrupt acts in the Ukraine" or whatever, and use it as a political hammer all through the election year.

Instead, the timing indicates that they would prefer not to face the President's reelection bid, and instead would prefer to run against his silent and (at least relatively - I know next to nothing about Pence) uncharismatic VP.

And you must have heard the recent rumblings about how, amazingly, Pence too is literally Hitler - no time to impeach him as well, but they're already teeing up the arguments to paint him with the High Crimes brush during the election season if it turned out that they could remove Pres. Trump from office. It's about 2020 and nothing more.

Jamie said...

Sorry, wait until after the ELECTION.

tcrosse said...

I do not know the number but I know who placed the call
'Cause Zelenskiy took the message and he wrote it on the wall.