December 16, 2019

"If you don’t consider FBI lying, concealment of evidence, and manipulation of documents in order to spy on a U.S. citizen in the middle of a presidential campaign to be a major scandal, what is?"

"But none of this is aberrational: the FBI still has its headquarters in a building named after J. Edgar Hoover – who constantly blackmailed elected officials with dossiers and tried to blackmail Martin Luther King into killing himself – because that’s what these security state agencies are. They are out-of-control, virtually unlimited police state factions that lie, abuse their spying and law enforcement powers, and subvert democracy and civic and political freedoms as a matter of course. In this case, no rational person should allow standard partisan bickering to distort or hide this severe FBI corruption. The IG Report leaves no doubt about it. It’s brimming with proof of FBI subterfuge and deceit, all in service of persuading a FISA court of something that was not true: that U.S. citizen and former Trump campaign official Carter Page was an agent of the Russian government and therefore needed to have his communications surveilled...."

Writes Glenn Greenwald at "The Inspector General’s Report on 2016 FBI Spying Reveals a Scandal of Historic Magnitude: Not Only for the FBI but Also the U.S. Media" (Intercept). Much more at the link.

130 comments:

Michael K said...

This is not the FBI's first rodeo, Howard. This has been going on a long time.

Birkel said...

The FBI/CIA/State/DOJ conspired to deprive US citizens' civil liberties under color of law.

Been saying it for more than 2.75 years.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

The corrupt left must impeach Trump - in order to cover their criminal enterprise.

THE DEMOCRAT PARTY is a criminal enterprise.

Schumer admitted it once.

Chuck said...

So this is part of the 27.785% of the time that the Trumpist alt-right cares about what Glenn Greenwald thinks... Have I got that percentage right? There’s always new data, isn’t there?

narciso said...

see stevens case, and mary beth Kempner, see anthrax and Stephen hatfill , see aipac but not cair, see quattrone, and his firm, (name escapes me) of course we can refer bulger and Connolly and morris, we don't have to go into ancient history,

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Glenn Greenwald is a rare journalist, Chuck. An honest leftist.

You wouldn't understand.

narciso said...

miss Kempner who was William allen's devoted handler, was retained but the whistleblower chad joy, was let go, then you have soufan and gaduin, one was really concerned about abu zubeydahs treatment, the other was not,

narciso said...

gaduin was zebley's partner before September 11th, the latter ended up an aide to mueller, then defended cooper the one with the server, and then rejoined Mueller's team,

Otto said...

Trump tweet yesterday "Obama knew everything"
That is quite a statement! He is accusing Obama of lying.
Notice the press is not playing this up.

narciso said...

the same players come up like bad pennies again and again, fitz, comey, mueller, wray, goldsmith, caprone, well she hasn't resurfaced but she's a judge now,

Bay Area Guy said...

Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi are hard-core liberals. Yet, they report the truth and connect the dots almost better than anyone.

Is there anyone with a brain who can't see what FBI HQ did during the run-up to the 2016 campaign?

Curious George said...

"Blogger Chuck said...
So this is part of the 27.785% of the time that the Trumpist alt-right cares about what Glenn Greenwald thinks... Have I got that percentage right? There’s always new data, isn’t there?"

I'm not sure you do. I care 0% of what you think and you're 100% a racist asshole. That math I'm sure about.

Danno said...

Blogger Chuck said..."So this is part of the 27.785% of the time that the Trumpist alt-right cares about what Glenn Greenwald thinks"

Chuck, this was researched and posted by Althouse. Hardly an alt-right member.

Take your meds Bud, or even better make some Jim Jones' special Kool-aid and drink up.

narciso said...

and Michael tracy and aaron mate, and Stephen McIntyre, who is antiinterventionist, has been a good source, chris blackburn, who is a liberal democrat, has been great on the mifsud beat

Drago said...

LLR-lefty Chuck is very very very very upset that a few honest and principled leftists still exist.

Very.

Having honest and principled leftists speak the clear truth has got to be very disorienting to the dishonest and corrupt lefties like LLR-lefty Chuck.

Again, very.

Unexpectedly.

Mike Sylwester said...

Instead of recusing himself from the Russia-Trump collusion investigation, Jeff Sessions should have spent a couple weeks studying the investigation.

Then Sessions should have announced publicly that this FBI investigation was similar to the FBI's bogus investigation of Martin Luther King's supposed collusion with Russian Intelligence. The purpose of that previous FBI investigation was to wiretap King and thus to obtain salacious information that could be leaked to King-hating journalists.

Sessions should have explained that the current FBI investigation of Trump was essentially similar to that previous FBI investigation of King.

Sessions could have figured this out in a couple of weeks, and his public announcement would have been essentially correct.

Then Sessions should have declared that he would declassify all the DOJ and FBI documents related to the bogus investigation of Trump's supposed collusion with Russian Intelligence.

Instead, though, Sessions meekly recused himself.

exhelodrvr1 said...

It seems highly likely that Obama was aware of everything

Drago said...

Bay Area Guy: "Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi are hard-core liberals. Yet, they report the truth and connect the dots almost better than anyone."

Aaron Mate, Jimmy Dore etc. All honest and principled members of the journalistic left, though Jimmy Dore would probably laugh and say that he is just a comedian in a garage and even he can see the obvious truth of all this.

Tina Trent said...

Actually, Chuck, Glenn has always had fans on both sides of the fence. I'm not one. When he was still writing for Salon, he bought into a lot of softie leftist social garbage. As he's honed his focus on intelligence communities, he has grown better as a journalist. Unfortunately, he's still taking money from the same Kremlin/Iran/China Voltaire Network cabal that funds Ron Paul, Cynthia McKinney, and other nuts spaced across the tiny arctic circle of the crazy fringe.

Greenwald is far smarter and far more honest and far less crazy than these people, of course. But you still have to dance with who brung you nonetheless.

Ken B said...

The lefties have been telling me this for decades. I thought they were making mountains out of molehills, exaggerating the inevitable random abuses. I don’t think I believe that anymore. This was deliberate, systematic, extensive. Why should I believe it’s the only case?

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Sessions had his eye on rolling back gay rights. He was the 100% wrong pick by Trump. Trump was bamboozled by feigned loyalty.

Drago said...

Btw, if you want to make LLR-lefty Chuck cry, go to youtube and watch Jimmy Dore take down Rachel Maddows insanity over and over again. Its a work of art, really.

Bonus: laughing at Rachel Maddow makes LLR-lefty Chuck cry into the bosom of his beloved Maddow blow up doll.

Tina Trent said...

Matt Taibbi has grown on me. He's kind of like Joe Rogan with a brain.

narciso said...

that's why I call it the tripwire, you have to create ambiguity, eichenrode in the plame case, strzok (and perhaps pienza) in this matter, sessions was strong on immigration enforcement, and he wasn't a member of the senate club, which doesn't apply to republicans, see Ashcroft and/or john tower,

Achilles said...

There are hundreds of people in DC who need to hang.

We will not have a Republic if we do not defend it against attacks like this.

Mike Sylwester said...

By meekly recusing himself, Sessions enabled Robert "The FBI Whitewasher" Mueller to take over and to use against President Trump the same tactics that the FBI uses to bring down a Mafia Boss.

For more than two years, Mueller searched through all of President Trump's relatives, friends, associates and supporters to find vulnerable people. If any such person could be charged with any serious crime, then he was threatened with prosecution and was offered leniency if he would snitch and testify against Trump.

That is how the FBI took down Mafia bosses when Mueller was FBI Director, and that is how Mueller's gang of Trump-hating lawyers tried to take down President Trump when Mueller was Special Counsel.

This abusive mistreatment of Trump and his relatives, friends, associates and supporters went on for more than two years.

TJM said...

It's not a scandal because the Dems and the Media support Moloch, killing unborn children. This trumps everything.

narciso said...

their oxes were being gored, think of a prominent left wing activist targeted by the bureau, probably going back to the 80s, now Assange was more of a free lance data broker,

Michael K said...

Kevin Drum has also been an honest lefty at Mother Jones.

Back in 2004 he investigated the Bush AWOL story and concluded it was a fraud. That was before Mary Mapes and Rather took their pratfall.

He has posted a couple of things on impeachment.

buwaya said...

Greenwald was always right on this subject.
Agencies with these capacities and powers are always dangerous.
You Americans should seriously consider whether they are worth the risk.

Even to totalitarian governments these agencies were always a problem, with the constant risk of going rogue, of being taken over by a faction intending to overthrow the "legitimate" powers, of becoming an independent center of power. All of these happened in various places and times.

Famously said by Lenin, on the death of Felix Dzerzhinsky, founder of the Cheka, to the effect that such an organization could only be led by a saint or a scoundrel, and that Dzerzhinsky was the last of the saints. For a certain conception of saint of course, in Lenin's case it was the ideal presented by Chernyshevsky.

You are unlikely to find a bunch of saints to run your Cheka, the FBI and CIA.

Tina Trent said...

Sessions is an excellent representative for Alabama. And a very decent man. Hopefully, he'll be re-elected to the Senate. We need religious diversity if we are to privilege the other kinds.

I'm not surprised he and Trump couldn't speak the same language, but I still believe they're both victims of the same security state malfeasance. Trump should stick Louie Gohmert in there. He's a fighter. Also brilliant. Also vernacularly under-rated.

ga6 said...


remember me? I am the commentator who has repeated the following since finding this blog years ago in another century:

Never Trust a Fed..

Unknown said...

But... but... but... Orange Man Bad! That's all that 99% of the news media care about.

narciso said...

re central America, the bureau didn't target the tea party, but every other agency from the irs to osha did, of course then there is the copt targeted to cover for Benghazi attack nakoula bassolay,

wendybar said...

Otto said...
Trump tweet yesterday "Obama knew everything"
That is quite a statement! He is accusing Obama of lying.
Notice the press is not playing this up.
12/16/19, 10:39 AM

Because they all know (as we do) that Obama is up to his eyeballs in this as is Hillary.

traditionalguy said...

Greenwald and Taibbi are unique liberals. The make their liberal arguments as strongly as possible, BUT they refuse to make up total fiction while they do it. They tell a lot of the truth about their targets and then proceed to ridicule them. And that makes you think. God forbid we think.

Mike Sylwester said...

Carter Page, George Papadopoulos, Michael Flynn and Roger Stone were framed by a cabal in the US Intelligence Community's leadership. They were framed as being witting secret agents of Russian Intelligence. They were framed because they supported Donald Trump.

These frame-up operations caused the criminal convictions of Papadopoulos, Flynn and Stone.

Although Page was framed, he was not convicted of any crimes. He got lucky.

The cabal members should be prosecuted just as ruthlessly as they prosecuted those Trump supporters.

narciso said...

then there are the targets that didn't bark in Orlando, in san Bernardino, in ft lauderdale, las vegas, parkland et al,

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Roger Stone was arrested at GUN POINT with CNN cameras rolling.

What a freaking Schitt-show. is that old crazy buzzard an actual threat?



Susan said...

Before we blame this whole mess on the FBI we need to remember that the CIA put them up to it.

The FBI have been willing attack dogs for a long time. And their media accomplices are right in there with them.

Not that in any way alleviates the blame of the FBI. But I would like the CIA and the media to receive their just desserts too.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

The FBI changed the language of the FISA request and hid the fact that Carter Page worked as an informant for the CIA.

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

Glenn Greenwald is OK. He's not a partisan hack. He has his principles, and he's consistent. That's how you tell- does a writer change his tune when his side is doing something he criticized before?

I thought Greenwald was a partisan hack 15 years ago. He's proven, year after year, that he is not.

You don't have to agree with a reporter's politics if they DO THEIR JOB. I'm so sick of being lied to. Mistakes are fine. Intentional omissions and distortions of information are not.

gahrie said...

Greenwald is far smarter and far more honest and far less crazy than these people, of course

Has he apologized for using sockpuppets?

donald said...

Ron Paul? Really?

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

the bigger story - as always - is the corrupt leftwing democrat party media collective narrative reporting.

NO EXONERATION by Horowitz.



narciso said...

facts not allowed, In the blank pages,


Confirmed: Head of NABU charged by Ukrainian courts of corruption. This is VERY significant as it pertains to charges of collusion in Ukraine. Follow our @OANN Special Investigates series to find out how.

rhhardin said...

It doesn't need the sensationalism. It was corrupt from the start and everybody knew it, inside and outside the FBI. I knew it, but I could read Trump.

He's after clicks on the right.

Known Unknown said...

Also, the WaPo Afghanistan War lies report has come and gone as well ...

mockturtle said...

As several of us suggested last week, it's time [high time!] to delete the FBI. And the corrupt CIA as well. Think of the $$ [and lives] we'd save!

rhhardin said...

The FISA court should have been able to figure it out too. No geniuses there.

Yancey Ward said...

Chuck wrote:

"So this is part of the 27.785% of the time that the Trumpist alt-right cares about what Glenn Greenwald thinks... Have I got that percentage right? There’s always new data, isn’t there?"

Chuck, I suspect you wrote this comment while remembering the ridicule you take for linking to David French, Bill Kristol, George Will and others. Am I right? Well, the situations are not the same, but I suspect you won't be able to figure out why they aren't the same.

rhhardin said...

Next week Greenwald does UFOs.

Bay Area Guy said...

At the risk of engaging banned commentators, Chuck, do you take issue with anything Greenwald wrote here?

Bob Boyd said...

The FBI has literally gotten away with publicly murdering US citizens who hold unpopular opinions on more than one occasion. Why would they quail at manipulating the FISC or leaking to media allies? Is there any reason to believe these practices haven't been their SOP for sometime?

Yancey Ward said...

"The FISA court should have been able to figure it out too. No geniuses there."

I read the applications- all four of them, and they were 90% redacted, so it was actually only about 40-50 pages of double-spaced, unredacted material out of 500 total pages for me to actually read. It was painful and boring for me, and I suspect what happens is that the judges don't read any of these applications but the names of of the people who have signed the warrant itself. They are just rubber stamps, and as such, won't waste their time doing the actual work of reading.

tommyesq said...

Greenwald was always right on this subject.
Agencies with these capacities and powers are always dangerous.


Also, Greenwald's position with respect to the FBI very much matches up with liberal orthodoxy of the past 50 years. The Left has in recent years rapidly moved away from liberal orthodoxy, however; they wanted to grant all power to the annointed one, and now want to grant all power to the unannointed (and unelected) ones to get rid of Trump, without ever noticing (or at least caring) that it moved them ever closer to fascism and further afield from classic liberalism.

rhhardin said...

The question is how to weave the IG report into a soap opera that continues the existing soap opera. That's what the business model needs. Everybody will tune out in confusion if something's overturned. Women value the consisten validity of the fiction. Even if it turns out that the other woman is in fact a cross dressing man, all the characters are still there.

rhhardin said...

Rush is shouting today.

Drago said...

rhhardin: "He's after clicks on the right."

Disagree.

I believe these honest lefties are rightly concerned that by falsely accusing Trump of these hoax crimes has innoculated Trump from, in their opinion, a proper critique from the left.

Worse, in their opinion, it has turned the democrat party into laughable and moronic McCarthyites at the same time as aligning the left with the military-industrial complex and intelligence agencies!

The honest lefties heads are exploding.

rhhardin said...

Showing women that they're wrong isn't going to work.

rhhardin said...

Yes but he's not an honest leftist. He's after a niche.

They're not exactly morons; they're soap opera fans. It's a genre they like.

mockturtle said...

rhhardin observes: The FISA court should have been able to figure it out too. No geniuses there.

The FISA court approves 99% of applications. It would be revealing, perhaps, to know what pretexts are used in the remaining 1%. They must be real doozies.

Yancey Ward said...

In other words, Chuck, do you understand why what Greenwald wrote here carries more weight than what David French might write on this matter? This goes back to comments you wrote here a couple of weeks ago when the House had the law professors testify- and you seemed to believe that the Democrats could easily find a Jonathan Turley from the right to testify, and I pointed out that there were no such law professors- all the ones you listed were NeverTrumpers from before his election.

In short, Greenwald carries weight with us because he is not a Trump supporter. What Greenwald writes is a sort of statement against political interest.

Original Mike said...

I bet Chuck doesn't have the balls to read the article.

rhhardin said...

Incidentally the Danish/Swedish The Bridge is much better acted than the Mexican/US The Bridge. The aspergers lady detective is hugely better acted.

The Swedish lady actor behind the scenes said it went against everything she knew about acting. She couldn't draw on herself for clues. I don't know how she did it but it was excellent, not picking up on the most obvious social clues.

There were traces of soap opera, but only so that she never fit in right. Hard to do.

wildswan said...

"Tina Trent said...
"Actually, Chuck, Glenn has always had fans on both sides of the fence. I'm not one. When he was still writing for Salon, he bought into a lot of softie leftist social garbage. As he's honed his focus on intelligence communities, he has grown better as a journalist. Unfortunately, he's still taking money from the same Kremlin/Iran/China Voltaire Network cabal that funds Ron Paul, Cynthia McKinney, and other nuts spaced across the tiny arctic circle of the crazy fringe.

Greenwald is far smarter and far more honest and far less crazy than these people, of course. But you still have to dance with who brung you nonetheless."


Expanding on that. Greenwald's niche is abuses of the surveillance state. The abuses are coming from both parties and so he attacks or sides with, now one, now the other. Under it all he is some kind of a lefty but not the kind that marches in lockstep. He has, one might say, the very latest steps. In this latest step, leftys point out lefty errors which is a banned career-ending move for ordinary leftys. But Greenwald and Taibb are making it. Why? In England and America, the Republicans and Tories have won the working class which was being crushed by globalism while the left has degenerated into fashion, into a sort of retro-boutique of novelties and once fashionable causes being run by billionaires on behalf of the self-image of the suburban class. Maybe we should expect novel moves and temporary alliances from the brighter sections of the left.

Yancey Ward said...

Mike Sylvester is correct- Jeff Sessions could have saved the country from a lot of this if he had just had the forethought to not recuse himself immediately. Anyone with an IQ in the triple digits could have read what the FBI already had in March of 2017 (Horowitz's report covers all of this) and determined that the entire investigation was based on what could be described, at best, as a complete mistake.

Brian said...

One of the things from the 2016 election that has seemed to disappeared down the memory hole is that there was talk of them trying to get a FISA warrant on Trump himself but that was rejected.

Summer of 2016 I believe. Then they got one on Carter Page in October.

I wonder what the rejected application looks like?

Yancey Ward said...

"Incidentally the Danish/Swedish The Bridge is much better acted than the Mexican/US The Bridge. The aspergers lady detective is hugely better acted."

rhhardin,

You might want to watch the BBC version of the story- The Tunnel. There are three seasons of it, but I have only watched the first two, but it is the first one that matters here.

narciso said...

yes, it wasn't diane kruger's best work, neither greenwald nor taibbi got along with Omidyar, I guess those are props,

JPS said...

When all the controversy over FISA and the NSA's wiretapping blew up in 2005, I supported what the Bush administration was doing.

I not only believed it was done in good faith, I believed it would not be abused going forward. The safeguards were considerable, the people entrusted with this power were too professional, and there were systems in place for them to keep each other honest.

It is sobering to realize how very wrong I was.

And Greenwald was right. So, chuck, while I agree with him a hell of a lot less than 27% of the time (and you should mind your significant figures), I'm interested in his take quite a bit more than that. Even where I remain convinced he's wrong, he makes me think, and that's more than most of the left bothers to do anymore.

narciso said...

the third season of the tunnel wasn't as good, Stephen Dillane, is a very good actor,

Gusty Winds said...

This is why there was no Federal police force until Hoover and the Dillinger era. Our founding fathers were smart regarding their fear of centralized power.

The media has been centralized. But the counter to their lies is social media luckily. It's just unbelievable. And it's scary that CNN is allowed to broadcast their propaganda through major airports. It's the only reason anyone hears them.

Comey is almost a sociopath. And Obama weaponized the bureaucracy. That's the Hope and Change he delivered to us all.

rcocean said...

MLK was wiretapped on the direct orders of RFK, and later JFK/LBJ approved the wiretaps. All this stuff about hoover 'blackmailing' officials is absurd. he didn't blackmail Ike, Truman, FdR, or Nixon. He was at war with RFK/JFK and probably would've been replaced if JfK had won in 1964.

Was he blackmailing LBJ? Now, that i could believe. Given how dirty LBJ was.

Yancey Ward said...

Brian asked:

"I wonder what the rejected application looks like?"

It isn't clear, now, that there were any other FISA applications. Horowitz seems to indicate that the DoJ 'rejected' some ideas for warrants on Papadopoulos. I will point out, though, that Horowitz's purview was FISA warrants, and it might be the case that they didn't go the FISA route in the beginning, but through the normal process, only going FISA when they failed in the normal court system.

In any case, I would love to see any example of the FISA application that was denied. Based on the Carter Page application, it appears all you actually need to get one is rumor from an unnamed source's unnamed source which means, to me, that there can never be a reason to turn one down.

rehajm said...

Comey is almost a sociopath.

Watching him in action I'm thinking he certainly does give off that vibe...

narciso said...

the stellar wind controversy that the times was a party to, was 1/10th as vaste as the panopticon, snowden took us on a tour through, btw the agencies like the bnd dgse ghcq are nearly as compromised as the pot they called us, similar with detention facilities like la sante, and that aisle off the greek coast, and can the british condemn gitmo and ignore long kesh,

Qwinn said...

IMO Greenwald is protecting Russia. That's what has always driven him. Until 2014 the only skepticism he could ever find against Russians was on the Right, so he went Left. What's sent him loopy is the Left's inexplicable 180 degree turn on the subject. It'd be appalling if there wasn't even ONE lefty who couldn't stomach reversing 80 years of monolithically defending Russians overnight. That there is apparently only one is disgusting enough.

Robert Cook said...

It's nice to see so many Althouse reg'lars agreeing with I have said for awhile how: The U.S. is a police state.

Yancey Ward said...

Comey threw all his former subordinates under the bus yesterday- all of them. In my opinion, this was a move made out of panic.

Schiff's interview was laughable- he had all of the same information that Nunes had. To claim he was given bad information is just a flat out fucking lie.

narciso said...

it's like the complaint the company was a rogue elephant, no it did what was requested some projects like bloodstone, probably were not what say harry Truman had in mind,

rcocean said...

When FDR told Hoover to jump, he said how high. Hoover even had to answer to Eleanor! Truman disliked Hoover and had little to do with him.

MLK wiretaps were given to Jackie O, who later discussed them with Arthur Schlesinger (off the record).

rcocean said...

"Instead of recusing himself from the Russia-Trump collusion investigation, Jeff Sessions should have spent a couple weeks studying the investigation."

Sessions is still saying he was right to recuse himself. He's worthless.

narciso said...

bloodstone, was the project that recruited Nazis in eastern Europe and the Caucasus, including the precursors of svoboda in the Ukraine,

JPS said...

Robert Cook, 11:42:

"It's nice to see so many Althouse reg'lars agreeing with I have said for awhile how: The U.S. is a police state."

You're stealing a base. It's not. If it were, you and I and others would have to be a lot more careful about what we write here.

Here I am, a small cog in what Greenwald would consider the national security state, reading about what others in other parts of it have done, and I'm appalled, and I can say so. Now: Do you have to worry I'm going to sic the dogs on you for being a steadfast critic? No, you do not. Do I have to fear consequences to me, for such criticisms as I've made, or for reading The Intercept? No, I do not.

Somewhere in between "The U.S. is a police state," and "The [elected] president is dangerously undermining all those dedicated public servants who only want to protect the nation" is my take, as 2019 nears its end.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

It's nice to see so many Althouse reg'lars agreeing with I have said for awhile how: The U.S. is a police state.

Not quite, Cook. We agree the ACTIONS of certain players in the FBI/CIA/NSC and State, where the circulate for decades regardless of who is POTUS, are Stasi-level bad. Not the USA itself. Certain actors. Unfortunately as we pointed out these things for years and drew the obvious inferences and asked begged pleaded for Congress or the Senate to put these people under oath we got no help from you. You didn’t believe Rosenstein and Comey we’re plotting a coup. You said we were conspiracy theorists. You who thinks every CiC is automatically a war criminal backed the plotters against this President.

Michael K said...

The U.S. is a police state.

If it was, you'd be afraid to post that comment.

Your buddy Beria is long gone. What we have is the Keystone Kops version of the police state.

narciso said...

like the bureaucrats who targeted buttle instead of tuttle in brazil,

Bay Area Guy said...

MLK was wiretapped on the direct orders of RFK, and later JFK/LBJ approved the wiretaps.

True, but at least there was a valid reason for it. A Commie/Soviet agent, Stanley Levinson, burrowed himself into the inner circle of MLK, and became the top speech writer. The FBI had valid concerns that MLK was allowing himself to be used by the Soviets.

narciso said...

no nowhere as accidental


https://dailycaller.com/2019/12/16/chuck-schumer-witnesses-exculpatory-information-trump-ukraine/

Original Mike said...

Where's our Inga. If anyone needs to read the Greenwald article, it's Inga.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Maybe an analogy would help clarify.

We center-right commenters on Althouse see people who abused the system, and perhaps some parts of the system as predisposed to abuse, like our secret FISA court. We see a bedbug infestation that requires diligent effort to root out and overcome. Maybe the carpet or the mattress will need to be replaced to address it all. Those bugs are persistent. But we aren’t the kind to say the whole house is at risk so let’s burn it all down. When I see people say this is a police state I know it’s gonna be followed by matches and molotovs.

buwaya said...

"The U.S. is a police state."

Partly true. This was at one time a patchy local affair, cities or counties sometimes having more or less corrupt and "intrusive" law enforcement that served local interests.

Prohibition, WWI, WWII and the Cold War led to national institutions, which had much greater capacities and temptations.

buwaya said...

"But we aren’t the kind to say the whole house is at risk so let’s burn it all down."

You should be. What you are dealing with is inevitable given the structures you have permitted to arise. You cannot clean out the bedbugs, because they are much more formidable than bedbugs, it is not clear at all who will win this fight. And because the house contains the portal to the inimical dimension from which they emerge (to use a fantasy/videogame trope), they will inevitably respawn even if you defeat them.

Curious George said...

"Robert Cook said...
It's nice to see so many Althouse reg'lars agreeing with I have said for awhile how: The U.S. is a police state."

Of course no one here has gone that far, but let's play a game. Name a country that isn't. And then name a country that isn't worse than the US.

chuck said...

>> IMO Greenwald is protecting Russia. That's what has always driven him. <<

True, true. The genius of the founders was the recognition that everyone was self interested and corruptible, hence the aim was to make them work against each other in order to maintain a balance. The complaint that the political parties are only interested in corruption when it works against them isn't a bug, it's a feature.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

And if we don’t descend thus Buwaya is it because of American Exceptionalism?

buwaya said...

"And then name a country that isn't worse than the US."

Spain!
The stakes in the game over there are vastly smaller, these are largely local, and the "deep state", which exists, is very parochial.

buwaya said...

"And if we don’t descend thus Buwaya is it because of American Exceptionalism?"

It will be through Gods mercy, as always.

Charlie said...

Reflecting on this the other day, I was remembering back to the peace, love, dope era, back when I was a card-carrying Democrat, and how we all railed against the federal government for abusing its police powers by carrying out secret investigations against political "enemies." Today, the Dems don't seem particularly worried about such abuses, because Trump.

Michael K said...


Spain!
The stakes in the game over there are vastly smaller, these are largely local, and the "deep state", which exists, is very parochial.


I liked Spain although most of my time was in Madrid. My daughter lived there for a year in Granada. She said once a week the propane man would appear and you could buy a propane tank refill. If you missed him, you were out of luck until the next week.

Probably a quite different economic status from yours. At least they figured out that wind power was a scam.

She and her boyfriend rented an extra bedroom to a guy from Brazil. She learned Portuguese that year. She spent a month in Morocco working on her Arabic.

Robert Cook said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Robert Cook said...

"Name a country that isn't (a police state). And then name a country that isn't worse than the US."

Even if I knew enough about every other country in the world such that I can answer this question, it's really just a self-absolving dodge. It's like saying, "Well, yes, my dad beats my mother and me and my siblings on a regular basis, but it's not so bad; every other dad in the neighborhood uses closed a fist to beat their families, but my dad only gives open-handed slaps."

It accelerates by degrees. Snowden revealed years ago that our intelligence agencies were--in violation of the constitution and the law--surveilling the electronic communications of every American. That, in itself, is a horrifying indicator of lawlessness by our government, and of the government's willingness to violate whatever laws or constitutional protections we (think) we have, as they please, and without apology. When asked, they'll lie to Congress about it, (see James Clapper).

Then, of course, there is the increasing militarization (and with it, the brutality) of domestic law enforcement agencies.

Drago said...

buwaya: "It will be through Gods mercy, as always."

God's mercy.....and a few marines.....

Sebastian said...

"If you don’t consider FBI lying, concealment of evidence, and manipulation of documents in order to spy on a U.S. citizen in the middle of a presidential campaign to be a major scandal, what is?"

For Dems:

1. Losing power
2. Conceding that Trump was right.
3. Acknowledging all progs were wrong.
4. Confessing that they are as evil as the deplorables thought.

Anyway, has any Dem apologized for their lies? Has any Dem tried to make amends for aiding and abetting the coup? Has any Dem called out the MSM for their blatant propaganda?

Didn't think so.

Curious George said...

"buwaya said...
Spain!"

Explain that to the Catalonia referendum protesters.

ga6 said...

'They doing counter battery fire..had to reach out to the retirement home:

"Former CIA and FBI Director William Webster declared in an op-ed Monday that the Federal Bureau of Investigation is not a “broken institution” and criticizing it threatens the “rule of law,” in an attempt to quell public outcry over agents’ misconduct during the 2016 election."

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/12/16/former-director-fbi-not-a-broken-institution-criticizing-it-threatens-rule-of-law/

buwaya said...

Re Catalonia - Easily explained - this is an open conflict, conducted openly.
In the streets and the mass media and the courts.
Those convicted conducted a massive, open "civil disobedience" manifestation against established law (the referendum of 2017). There were no secret sanctions.

An open society is not necessarily one without conflicts.

gahrie said...

I remember traveling in Spain in the 1980's and seeing police officers standing around with fully automatic weapons.

MayBee said...

I have another scandal: Elyssa Slotkin just announced she is voting for impeachment. She took a lot of money from Bloomberg's group to run and win in 2018. And Bloomberg just announced he is going to spend even more this time around to help Congress people who are getting attacked by Trump.

So basically, Bloomberg is financing his opponent's impeachment.

bagoh20 said...

It's also telling that nobody expected Trump to win, yet they still did this. Because that's what they do. They just couldn't resist it. But, as with most of his enemies, Trump makes them so crazy they lose all self-control and discipline, so they were careless like common criminals.

bagoh20 said...

"Anyway, has any Dem apologized for their lies? Has any Dem tried to make amends for aiding and abetting the coup? Has any Dem called out the MSM for their blatant propaganda?"

Nobody. Dershowitz is the exception among Democrats who even acknowledged what they have done.

Anonymous said...

Ingacon Cuck doesn’t want investigations of Dem corruption (No Lifelong Republican does)—cuts way too close to Big Bowtie. I mean people might begin to think there’s a connection between the two.

mockturtle said...

MayBee observes: I have another scandal: Elyssa Slotkin just announced she is voting for impeachment. She took a lot of money from Bloomberg's group to run and win in 2018. And Bloomberg just announced he is going to spend even more this time around to help Congress people who are getting attacked by Trump.

Sounds like quid pro quo to me!

Roughcoat said...

Buwaya is obsessed with explaining America's flaws to Americans. Very peculiar. He just can't quit us. Even though he's moved to Bilbao he can't let go.

Something in his childhood, I think. A need that must expressed, and satisfied.

Don't worry, chum. We know how special you are. We see it.

There. Does that help?

Francisco D said...

It's nice to see so many Althouse reg'lars agreeing with I have said for awhile how: The U.S. is a police state.

C'mon Cookie,

We believed that shit in the 1960's, but we were stoned most of the time.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

gahrie said...

I remember traveling in Spain in the 1980's and seeing police officers standing around with fully automatic weapons.

Back in 90's I saw police with sub machine guns at the immigration check point at London Gatwick. In the early 2000's it was soldiers patrolling with H&K G3's at Schiphol. Same trip I saw 4 cops go after a purse snatcher in Amsterdam. The thief got quite an ass-kicking in the process. No matter what anyone says, US cops are scoutmasters compared to European cops.

buwaya said...

Well, perhaps inconveniently for some,
- Wife and children are American
- I have lived over half my life in the US.
- The bulk of our assets are still there.
- Whatever you do is a big deal everywhere else.

There is no "escape" from your affairs.

Roughcoat said...

There's nothing wrong with Spain that a bloody civil war followed by a 36-year Fascist-Catholic dictatorship couldn't solve.

narciso said...

my late grandfather was in spain, right after franco's passing, he saw how society had seemed to slipped it's moor even then, he was a very wise man, this was before the era depicted in stillman's film,

Catalan independence seems to have been influenced by Qatari elements, as montes Bradley noted, I met the patriarch of the family, a very interesting fellow,

320Busdriver said...

What about the cover up of Sen Warner getting the FISA application and then having his SSC security guy leak it to Buzzfeed.

When will THAT be discussed in the media?????????????

The rot in DC goes very deep.

Curious George said...

"buwaya said...
Re Catalonia - Easily explained - this is an open conflict, conducted openly.
In the streets and the mass media and the courts.
Those convicted conducted a massive, open "civil disobedience" manifestation against established law (the referendum of 2017). There were no secret sanctions.

An open society is not necessarily one without conflicts."

Don't move the goal posts. The issue was "police state." Violently crushing disobedience is one of the definitions.

minnesota farm guy said...

Here is the key paragraph from the Greenwald piece: "If it does not bother you to learn that the FBI repeatedly and deliberately deceived the FISA court into granting it permission to spy on a U.S. citizen in the middle of a presidential campaign, then it is virtually certain that you are either someone with no principles, someone who cares only about partisan advantage and nothing about basic civil liberties and the rule of law, or both. There is simply no way for anyone of good faith to read this IG Report and reach any conclusion other than that this is yet another instance of the FBI abusing its power in severe ways to subvert and undermine U.S. democracy. If you don’t care about that, what do you care about?"

When he's right he's right!

Sammy Finkelman said...

It wasn't "in the middle of a presidential campaign."

JaimeRoberto said...

Matt Taibbi has grown on me. He's kind of like Joe Rogan with a brain.

Rogan presents himself as a meathead, and he kind of comes off that way, but he's a good interviewer and seems to be prepared for his interviews. Maybe he substitutes hard work for brains, but I suspect that a lot of brains are involved too.

JaimeRoberto said...

The U.S. is a police state.

I'm not prepared to say that, but I'm becoming ever more worried about the influence the intelligence services have.

Ralph L said...

It wasn't "in the middle of a presidential campaign."

We don't yet know what nefarious things they were doing against Trump and other Republican candidates (and Bernie) before summer 2016.

Ken B said...

Drago: “I believe these honest lefties are rightly concerned that by falsely accusing Trump of these hoax crimes has innoculated Trump from, in their opinion, a proper critique from the left.”

Agree. And that understates the case. Not only has it blunted any sane criticism, it has also created a strong incentive to support the man. It is important not to let this lying cabal have their way. The obvious way to stop them winning is to vote for Trump.

Otto said...

Popadop met with Mifsud in March 2016
Popadop met with Downer in May 2016.

Douglas B. Levene said...

@Mike Sylwester: The upside of Mueller's hard-ball tactics is that it's now impossible to reasonably argue that he missed evidence of any Trump / Russia conspiracy. He squeezed all the Trump insiders, everyone who would have know about such a conspiracy if it existed, held long prison sentences in unrelated cases over their heads and came up with nothing. To any normal person, that means there was nothing.