I am surprised that they spoke so severely and stridently and launched right into stating conclusions, applying the law to the facts, and expressing these conclusions in a tone I'm used to seeing in the movies, where hammy actors argue to a jury.
I thought — as I said 2 posts down — the idea would be for the 3 law professors called by the Democrats to provide cover for the Democrats by performing the theater of making everything sound like law and not politics and by speaking in a tone that would feel academic and sadly, grimly inevitable.
But they came on so strong, righteously angry and in an exaggerated tone, making assertions that the things Trump did are impeachable. They did not work to establish our confidence that they were operating in a scholarly zone that was truly their expertise. They did not give us reason to believe we should listen to them as expert witnesses.
What an awful display! And I'm not even counting the motions for who knows what and the roll call votes (which seemed to be the GOP strategy for making the show as annoying as possible). The first 2 witnesses — Noah Feldman and Pam Karlan — scolded and yelled. Michael Gerhardt was a bit milder, but he mumbled and stumbled, and I couldn't believe he brought up the musical "Hamilton."
It was not at all the "constitutional law seminar" that White House Counsel Pat Cipollone decried. It was an unwatchable harangue.
The GOP witness Jonathan Turley stepped back and made an important argument: You need to be careful that whatever you do is going to set a precedent that will be used against future Presidents. Also (and this was quite apt after listening to Feldman and, particularly, Karlan): Everyone is too angry and this isn't the sort of thing we should be doing in a state of high hysteria. Turley bolstered his testimony by assuring us that he didn't like Trump and didn't vote for him. That, ironically, made him the least political of the set of 4 professors, but it isn't quite fair that there's no one on the panel to balance Feldman and Karlan and simply make a scenery-chewing pro-Trump argument.
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 350 of 350I can't take impeachment seriously because the Dems aren't taking it seriously. They wanted a circus, and so they created a circus. The could have brought in experts on the law and in impeachment who were unknown, instead they brought in hysterical anti-Trump partisans who happened to have law degrees. The Democrats are not trying to convince the convincible, they are putting on a show for the far-left, pathological rump haters in their base.
Not inviting Zelensky to Disney World emboldened Putin.
J. Farmer said...
@Greg the class traitor:
Look at their relationship with Iran. Russia has a severe problem with Chechen terrorists, and other islamic terrorists. Those terrorists get support from Iran. But Putin backs Iran, because Iran harms the US. The fact that they also harm Russia doesn't matter.
What harm does the Russia-Iran relationship due to the US?
Gosh, I wonder, what harm DO Iranian backed terrorists do to the US?
Other than murder US troops, target US citizens, and target US allies?
Seriously?
Francisco D said...
Putin is just a whore like the other European heads of state. That is why he does business with Iran.
Iran is not actively funding terrorist groups that kill hundreds to thousands of Europeans each year. The Chechen terrorists were doing that to Russia in the 200s, and Putin still backed their suppliers anyway
well I never:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/im-insulted-professor-goes-off-on-rep-doug-collins-in-response-to-his-attacks/ar-BBXLjUJ?ocid=spartandhp
So distressing that all these open-minded commenters are coming out against impeachment after hearing called to order.
"So distressing that all these open-minded commenters are coming out against impeachment after hearing called to order.”
You could use that elite education you claim to set us straight on all of these points of law, or you could just snark because you got nothing.
It's called Trump Derangement Syndrome, and it affects a lot of people....even people who are "so called" smart Law Professors.
Shouldn’t Trump get props for seriously impacting the funding of Putin’s army by lowering the price of oil?
Who is it really doing his bidding. Even Hillary said in her speech to Citibank, I think it was, that Russia was behind the anti pipeline groups, and yet she still opposed the pipelines and took mountains of Putin cash.
Kellyanne Conway
@KellyannePolls
·
25m
Hunter Biden is off-limits but Barron Trump is not?
@Greg the class traitor:
Iran is not actively funding terrorist groups that kill hundreds to thousands of Europeans each year. The Chechen terrorists were doing that to Russia in the 200s, and Putin still backed their suppliers anyway
Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE have all supported Sunni jihadists who have targeted Americans, and we still back them. Why do you think that is?
As for the Chechens, see Iran and Chechnya: Realpolitik at Work
Make the House vote. Soon. MAKE THE HOUSE VOTE.
I know it's not a surprise, but Feldman told a bald-faced lie that could not possibly be a simple mistake.
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/harvard-law-prof-tells-a-big-fat-one-house-judiciary-committee-democrats-led-their-hearing-this-mor/
We're fucking doomed.
’So distressing that all these open-minded commenters are coming out against impeachment after hearing called to order.’
Did we hear testimony from any fact witnesses today?
The Impeachment Schitt-show is a kabuki theater Potemkin Village.
A feast of lies, bromides, talking points, innuendo and BS spread out before the Antifa RESIST hivemind base buffet table. The left are happy to feast on it. Nancy is going to go for it.
But I doubt it./ I think they want to drag it out longer.
Sad.
@readering:
So distressing that all these open-minded commenters are coming out against impeachment after hearing called to order.
The reason I am not bothering paying much attention to the story is because even if everything alleged is 100% true, I'd still oppose impeachment. And even if the House manages to impeach, the Senate is not going to convict. The entire thing is kabuki.
“The President have said... matter of fact, the president is trying to absorb himself...”
Thank you, Rep. Val Demings (D-FL)...
We're fucking doomed.
Indeed.
Althouse said in the other post, "I was wrong, and, oh, my lord, this is so much worse than I thought it would be."
Of course, I appreciate Althouse's honesty and tender sensibilities. The world would be a better place if more people thought as she does.
But as this comment about her expectations indicates, she has no clue. She was utterly wrong. Yet any non-prog commenter on this blog could have told her otherwise. None of us expected a good-faith lawyerly presentation. We expected progs to be progs, and go full-blown angry. While we deal with progworld as it is, Althouse is still in her isn't-it-terrible mode. It's so awful!
Well, yes, it is, but that is how the game is played, that is who they are, that is what they do. As has been shown now for years and years. At what point will Althouse and the Althouses not simply recognize that they were wrong in this or that prediction, disappointed in this or that politician's statement, but draw some actual lessons from their fundamental wrongness?
Perhaps this impeachment farce will make her and them see the light. But last I heard, Althouse is still waiting to "make plans" and "see what happens." Well, this is what happens.
For a while I've thought that the strongest anti-Trump argument out there is this: Ostensibly smart people who were once able to make reasonable points that could appeal to logic will be able to once again make rational arguments instead of relying on emotions (mostly hatred) if Trump is no longer the president.
The amount of people who I know are capable of making strong and intelligent arguments who also completely abandon that ability when talking about Trump is long. I don't know any of these law profs, but I'm guessing they all fall into this boat.
Then again, this *is* religion to them.
Iran and Chechnya: Realpolitik at Work
In short: practical and rational, overlapping and converging interests, and separable intersecting domains. Ideally, principles are proactive and predictive of these challenges, so that we can, with good faith, reach a tolerable and hopefully reconcilable state.
So distressing that all these open-minded commenters are coming out against impeachment after hearing called to order.
Maybe we would be more open-minded if, well, you know, you actually had something.
As it is, your side is yelling about things that never happened and expecting the rest of us to just go along with it.
That's not how it works.
Garmer: "The reason I am not bothering paying much attention to the story is because even if everything alleged is 100% true, I'd still oppose impeachment. And even if the House manages to impeach, the
Senate is not going to convict. The entire thing is kabuki."
readering thinks history began 15 minutes ago and we've all forgotten the serial lies and wailing for impeachment from the lunatic left/LLR-left over the last 3 years.
readering still literally believes Kavanaugh is a gang rape leader.
Literally.
So yeah readering, color us skeptical about these latest dem/lefty/LLR-lefty lies which are intended to undo an election you psychos have never accepted.
Glenn has the link: the Harvard prof lied.
well chechens were originally sufi, nasquabandi, the turn toward Wahhabism is something recent, iran until the 1970s. was a relatively moderate shame,
Amadeus 48 @3;41 " Bernie is a either Trotskyist without the intellectual rigor or a Stalinist without the charm".
A sincere hat tip to you sir. Brilliant.
Building on bagoh20’s comment, here is what Mark Tapscott wrote on Instapundit:
“HARVARD LAW PROF TELLS A BIG FAT ONE: House Judiciary Committee Democrats led their hearing this morning with Harvard’s Noah Feldman. Later in the day under intense questioning by Rep. Matthew Gaetz (R-Flor.), Feldman claimed he ‘was an impeachment skeptic before July 25.’
That’s a flat-out misrepresentation by Feldman of his views because he was among the early advocates of impeachment, beginning March 7, 2017, barely six weeks after President Donald Trump’s inauguration.”
@h at 12/4, 11:10: Your analysis is exactly right.
Charts!
THE DEMS HAVE CHARTS!!
Repeat offender collusion charts!
Witness intimidation charts!
THOSE CHARTS ARE DAMNING!
"For a while I've thought that the strongest anti-Trump argument out there is this: Ostensibly smart people who were once able to make reasonable points that could appeal to logic will be able to once again make rational arguments instead of relying on emotions (mostly hatred) if Trump is no longer the president."
Yeah, I remember how calm and logical the Dems were about Reagan, Bush, Dole, Bush 2, Romney, and McCain the one time he strayed off their reservation.
Pull the other one. It has bells.
Democrats lying is all A-OK. Democrats are above the law, too.
I tip my hat to anyone that can tolerate more than 10 minutes of this at a time.
Love turley. So brave.
Readering is distressed because the experts aren’t and we refuse to fall for it.
Surely THIS TIME it’ll work!
Nope.
The Prosecutor and the three Professor pro-impeachment claque were a scripted fake experts hit team sent from Hussein Obama himself. All of them are part of Obama's special forces.
I tip my hat to anyone that can tolerate more than 10 minutes of this at a time.
Professor Jonathan Turley Opening Statement – Video and Transcript…
Full disclosure: it's 9 minutes and 22... 21 seconds.
It was actually easy to watch. Turley acknowledges his biases up front, then proceeds to construct a frame of reference for his principled stand away from his political, social, ideological, etc. colleagues. The frame is narrow, but is internally, externally, and mutually consistent, at least within our Constitutional framework.
You much more Ado about nothing and yet you people cannot resist when will the soap opera Hysteria. Whatever happened to the Gary Cooper conservatives? Oh yeah they got bone spurs and bad knees
Turley used to be Benedict Cumberbatch thin. He looks a bit puffy now! Good testimony though.
The Trump presidency has been an illuminating experience. It is apparent that a large percentage of our elites are morons. Some of them have genius IQs and all the credentials in the world and have made a million dollars, but, by golly, they are still morons. It is difficult to be that stupid on purpose.
This will not end well. It is just a matter of how it will not end well and how many people will have to suffer for it. These are the sort of people who end up in charge when the history books describe downfalls, whether it be for a particular individual or entire countries.
You much more Ado about nothing and yet you people cannot resist when will the soap opera Hysteria.
Written by a member of the insane party that has inflicted this sham on America.
Says it all.
Dems are scared... Ginsberg is gonna croke in the next term. If Trump is prez... he will lock SCOTUS into a conservative majority... for DECADES.
And there is a good chance the House will flip to Republican.. economy is great, troops coming home, wall is being built, and all is well. Thus it is either now or never. And that is why they are going all out to impeach him. They are scared and desperate.
Blogger readering said...
So distressing that all these open-minded commenters are coming out against impeachment after hearing called to order.
You can't possibly be this stupid. Those people were calling for impeachment before he was inaugurated.
Please don't be this stupid.
Thanks for the Rep. Johnson video, Michael K. Truly on point.
Howard: "You much more Ado about nothing and yet you people cannot resist when will the soap opera Hysteria."
Its just an attempted coup to remove a duly elected President by fake accusations of criminal activity after spying on and framing a domestic political opponent. Nothing to see here, move along.
You really gonna stick with that?
I don't know why anyone expected anything but what we got, since what we got is what we've been getting.
Excellent summary by Rep. Mike Johnson (R-LA). Worth watching all the way to the end.
Didn’t see you had already posted the Mike Johnson link Dr. K. That was surely an excellent summary. Don’t think there is anyone on the D side that clear-headed and capable.
It's just political theater Drago. Your own hero Donald J Trump the third knows that it's just theater and he is not taking it seriously. You're just a fool dancing around saying the sky is falling the sky is falling.
Turley was the star today. He came across as a sincere and objective party in this exclusively partisan impeachment question, concerned entirely about our nation and system of government. The others are partisan hacks, brought in to do a hit job. Rep. Mike Johnson gives a fantastic and clear introduction.
Nadler is a buffoon. Pelosi is frantically searching for the eject button.
Imagine if trials were actually like this in America.
The prosecutor, who wants to give your job to someone on his team, holds hearings where he calls the witnesses.
From those hearings, the prosecutor decides which witnesses to call publicly.
The prosecutor decides how many witnesses the defense can call, and who they can be.
Then the second prosecutor calls in 3 unrelated witnesses to declare whether or not you are guilty of the crime. The defense gets to call in 1. The second prosecutor asks the three unrelated witnesses their inferences about what you did wrong according to the witnesses in the first trial.
If you don't participate, you will be charged with obstruction of justice.
Democrats, is this what you want?
Do you think the sky is not falling, Howard? I was told today by witnesses and Congressmen that if they don't impeach, our republic will become a monarchy!
Donald Trump is the most strict adherent to the philosophy of Alfred E Neuman.
Do you believe everything you hear Maybee? Sounds like it. I was born into real white male privilege where the number one rule is to believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see.
It's like you people don't even remember how magic works.
Does it sound like I believe everything? Hmmm.....I certainly don't believe them, but what I don't know is if they believe themselves.
If you think they do not, that makes me feel better.
its the Hungarian phrasebook sketch from python,
Damn, I wake up at midnight and I get to reading Althouse. Not good.
Anyway, there are no precedents to expect from any of this. You are headed to the year zero. Only after that,when stability eventually returns, will precedents accumulate again.
Non-disclosure agreements are bribes now?
Who knew.
"That’s a flat-out misrepresentation by Feldman of his views because he was among the early advocates of impeachment, beginning March 7, 2017, barely six weeks after President Donald Trump’s inauguration.”"
-- Were they under oath? If so, I'd hit him with a perjury charge just because it is so blatant.
Of course this is all PR, politics.
The flip side is you no longer have law or conventions or a system. Not even civilization as you knew it. It is all about one giant power struggle. Who is to be master, that is all.
Were they under oath?
I think so. It would be a nice lesson for him,.
Well said Professor. It has been more than 25 years since I attended law school and I was taken aback by the three professors' partisanship and lack of objectivity. Has law school become this partisan in the past 25 years? I remember law school as a time where we students were taught how to approach a question from a legal perspective. I saw that from Professor Turley, but very little of that from the other three. On a matter of such importance, that was disappointing.
Has this process become a "roving prosecution" in search of a crime? I remember roving prosecutions as the bane of due process concerns and fundamental fairness. I have to say I was disappointed in the willingness of the three professors to convict without due process. I hope they explain their reasoning at some point. They acted a judges, juries, and executioners. As you said, they gave me no reason to believe I should listen to them as expert witnesses.
I couldn’t tell if Chairman Waddler was dismayed by the Republicans quoting his past statements or just a little dyspeptic due to a bad burrito.
You're just a fool dancing around saying the sky is falling the sky is falling.
Howard, the troll, is trying to make a point. Howard, cut down on the John Jameson.
Michael K: You can't possibly be this stupid.
Reads more like "three sheets to the wind" than "stupid" to me.
There's not much that reads like sober-posting among our resident TDS sufferers lately.
You OK Howard?
It began with White Water and then Paula Jones, then Monica.
There was troopergate and cattle futures as well, and maybe some other areas of investigation I've forgotten.
Those two were never investigated. I believe Starr got the FBI files/spying scandal and whiffed it. Their many fundraising crimes, from the Chinese/Loral technology sale to renting the Lincoln Bedroom, never met a controlling legal authority, either.
I have a bad habit of hammering on and nauseam. This is why I can be a bore.
One pet point is that this is NOT the world of 25 years ago. It is now. That more civilized age is past. What you see is what is, and tomorrow will be worse.
Just a reminder. The American Psychiatric Association estimates that 20% of us are walking around with diagnosable mental illnesses. I think they are light in the pot. And I think a bunch of regular Americans saw what the faculty at three top tier law schools really looks like.
So distressing that all these open-minded commenters are coming out against impeachment after hearing called to order.
We read the transcript.
Howard: "You're just a fool dancing around saying the sky is falling the sky is falling."
You have a unique ability amongst your fellow lefties for projecting onto republicans what the dems have been doing dialed up to eleventy. And thats saying something.
It fools no one of course.
I'll give you guys some credit at least you're not talking about civil war with mouth foaming zeal.
Not even civilization as you knew it. It is all about one giant power struggle. Who is to be master, that is all.
That’s what happens when you de-nationalize a country and turn its citizens into consumerist cigs in a global cash recycling scheme.
That's right Drago two sides of the same coin and the 20% of each group that's mentally ill is running around saying the sky is falling
Realpolitik
@Howard:
I’ve read your comments and am trying to discern your point but admittedly having a difficult. Could you boil it down to a sentence or two?
In your highest circles there no longer is any culture or scholarship. There are no ladies and gentlemen, just the characters out of The Road Warrior and Thunderdome.
For the moment, sometimes, they try to conceal that. A fish of course rots from the head.
One pet point is that this is NOT the world of 25 years ago. It is now. That more civilized age is past. What you see is what is, and tomorrow will be worse.
My POV in a nutshell.
So one of them lied; the other went after a child. Did number three or four disqualify themselves as "serious" people?
I ran from your coming troubles. Unfortunately (and this is low on my scale of worries) I stand to lose substantial assets that I have not yet managed to move.
I'll give you guys some credit at least you're not talking about civil war with mouth foaming zeal.
But we are keeping our powder dry.
J Farmer. What do you expect the Democrats to do? The politics of personal destruction has been going on for quite some time now. The battle now is over the supreme Court since McConnell fucked Obama out of Garland.
The Democrats are doing everything they can to destroy Trump maybe it will backfire maybe it won't.
Matt Sablan: So one of them lied; the other went after a child. Did number three or four disqualify themselves as "serious" people?
You know, I've always been aware that I'm on the other side of a philosophical divide from these people. And I've always thought that a lot of 'em were full of shit - hardly a state exclusive to those of their political persuasion, of course. But there's full of shit, and there's being a piece of shit, and man, I never fully grasped until recently what utter pieces of shit these people are.
The end is nigh mentality is unseemly, but it obviously works at making the adherents on both sides act like proper marionettes
J. Farmer said...
@Howard:
"I’ve read your comments and am trying to discern your point but admittedly having a difficult. Could you boil it down to a sentence or two? "
Fuggetit. You'd have to be as wasted as he is.
I expect assassinations if not a hot shooting war.
If Howard acts in the real world the way he acts online, he will be an early casualty.
Chuck is a goner.
Drago won't last.
Me?
I have sight lines and ammo.
Good luck.
Do the Democrats have closed door caucus sessions to decide which lies each of them gets to deliver? After watching Schiff and Nadler it appears the committee chairman get the juiciest choices.
Its not this episode, or these tactics that matter in themselves. These are just symptoms of a collective condition of your elites. This is why you have a senior professor at Stanford willing to testify like this. This is, of course, with the tacit or active approval of her colleagues and employers and general social circle, to whom she will return with a heroic glamor.
This is a conflict of peoples, not of politics.
Anyway, I must have eaten something that disagrees with me. Good morning!
“In your highest circles there no longer is any culture or scholarship. There are no ladies and gentlemen, just the characters out of The Road Warrior and Thunderdome.”
I normally enjoy your posts, but this is a load of crap. Where do you call home (for comparison’s sake)?
Howard said...
J Farmer. What do you expect the Democrats to do? The politics of personal destruction has been going on for quite some time now. The battle now is over the supreme Court since McConnell fucked Obama out of Garland.
Biden fucked Reagan out of Bork. What is it about you lefties? Are you really just so terminally stupid that you can't remember anything that happened more than 4 years ago?
Biden fucking Reagan out of Bork lead to the other fucking, which was Souter. So no, we haven't even caught up yet, expect more fucking coming your way.
This is embarrassing. What an immature freak.
Watch: Professor Pamela Karlan Rants About Trump, Admits Crossing Street to Avoid His Hotel
Exactly Greg you get it it's one vendetta after another. The goals are achieved by theater that's the way politics work. Everything else is just self-delusion which so many people here love to wallow in
I knew I could count on Bickel to go full drama queen candy ass
Go figure huh
https://creativedestructionmedia.com/investigations/2019/12/04/ukraine-fires-prosecutor-investigating-burisma-and-hunter-biden-transfers-cases-to-soros-controlled-nabu-for-closure/
Howard: "The end is nigh mentality is unseemly, but it obviously works at making the adherents on both sides act like proper marionettes"
LOL
Ah yes, the classic lefty "tell".
Whenever the dems/LLR-left get caught pulling their little tricks suddenly all the lefty hacks go into "everybody does it mode so lets blame both sides".
No gonna work Howard.
Its your p****-hat wearing side screaming Trump is a nazi dictator and destroying our nation and must be removed immediately and rioting across the country and using mobs to physically attack political opponents.
The republicans are just saying: "nope".
Another false equivalence.
Unexpectedly.
Shorter Drago:. There's no place like home. There's no place like home
Greg: "Biden fucked Reagan out of Bork. What is it about you lefties? Are you really just so terminally stupid that you can't remember anything that happened more than 4 years ago?"
History begins anew every 15 minutes for these idiot lefties/LLR-lefties.
Howard: "Shorter Drago:. There's no place like home. There's no place like home"
Surrendering the point is a wise move on your part.
@Howard:
J Farmer. What do you expect the Democrats to do? The politics of personal destruction has been going on for quite some time now. The battle now is over the supreme Court since McConnell fucked Obama out of Garland.
The Democrats are doing everything they can to destroy Trump maybe it will backfire maybe it won't.
Oh, I agree. I'm not so sure tactically that it is a good idea, but that remains to be seen. But if you've nicely and concisely articulated why I've barely paid attention to this story at all. Anyone who thinks this has anything to do with the law or with the Constitution or with the truth is naive in the extreme. I think the Democrats would have been better positioned if that hadn't spent every minute since 2016 histrionically overreacting to everything Trump has said and if they had recognized that beyond the tweeting and the bombast, Trump has hitherto governed like a moderate Republican.
To summarize the dems/LLR-left position on children of politicians:
50 year old Hunter Biden is untouchable
13 year old Barron Trump is fair game
I dunno why so many think Howard is a lefty. He strikes me as being a very cynical very pessimistic libertarian. A “pox on ALL houses” instead of “a pox on both houses”. Of course, that attitude as well as libertarianism is Utopian. Which is a losing way to think or act about government.
Biden fucked Reagan out of Bork. What is it about you lefties? Are you really just so terminally stupid that you can't remember anything that happened more than 4 years ago?"
Well, whatever you think of either the Bork or Garland nominations, the two cases are not exactly comparable. Bork got a hearing and a vote and was rejected. It was not the same as the Senate simply refusing to consider any Reagan nominee.
J Farmer: I can't argue with that, that's why I don't pay much attention to this BS either.
The only thing a dissident conservative hates more than the DNC is the GOP. The Democrats tell you outright that they hate you and want to replace you. Republicans pretend to be on your side and then sell you out the second your back is turned.
I don't want to sound like Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm but don't give up on the US yet. We do know that Trump is rising in the polls as impeachment goes on. Meanwhile Kamala Harris was Ms. Check the Most Boxes - and her polls fell and she's gone. If the Dems were right in their politics, Trump's figures would have fallen and Kamala would be coasting to the nomination. As Althouse said in previous blog, the Dems can't find the right lie. I consider this simply astounding and I think the political scientists of the future will be busy for long time explaining how there could be politicians in a democracy unable to tell a lie people want to hear.
Garland wasnt given a hearing following the biden rules, the campaign against borl
K was scurrilous
As a non-Republican and non-Democratic, this conservative couldn't care less about the partisanship.
But buwaya is correct and the fact that people have no historical u defat a ding to see the truth of his analysis...
That is a fucking problem.
Please don't be this stupid.
It is their nature, like the scorpion and the frog.
understanding, for fuck's sake
Bork got a hearing and a vote and was rejected. It was not the same as the Senate simply refusing to consider any Reagan nominee.
The specific mechanics of the rejection, bringing it to a vote and then voting down versus plainly telling the President, since we currently control the Senate we are not going to approve any nominee at this time, doesn't seem as particularly important, because they didn't hide their motivations. Saying plainly "We think we have a chance in the near future to nominate a much more conservative nominee and we think the American people are behind us in this desire so we are going to see how the upcoming elections play out." is political obviously, but doesn't involve the kind of political skull-duggery of trashing a nominee to give cover for a no vote. Which is what happened with Bork. In fact I think many Republican Senators said, they think or assume that Eric Garland is a good decent man, they just weren't going to vote for him.
But the other process that happened with Bork, Thomas, and Kavanaugh, have very negative long-term consequences in that it drives decent people from trying to participate in the nations's governance. I think Kavanaugh even made that point during his confirmation hearing. No one is surprised when politicians make decisions for political reasons, but that doesn't mean every tactic is acceptable to give cover for those political decisions. I sometimes think Democrats might have even won the Senate in 2018 if during the Kavanaugh hearings, instead of trying to falsely brand him as a serial sexual abuser, they merely focused on his decisions and then said, I can't vote to confirm you because I worry that you might overturn Roe v. Wade. It would have been nakedly political obviously, but not in a way that people didn't already know and expect them to behave.
William said, "False equivalence. Clinton misbehaved and got caught."
I disagree. Yes, Clinton misbehaved, but the Republicans were poking at him long before he messed with Monica. The Whitewater controversy began, I think, in 1993, and the Special Counsel was appointed in 1994.
Republicans slaughtered the Democrats in the 1994 mid-terms, leaving Clinton practically incoherent trying to explain it away (well, why not? His presidency in the first two years was mostly incoherent). But after that, the Republicans overreached. They shut down the government and lost. The Starr investigation dragged on with one issue after another. Clinton played defense and began to look more presidential. Clinton beat Dole and was re-elected.
The "gotcha" moment was Monica and the blue dress. Yes, the Republicans could point to a real crime (perjury), but they had no shot at winning a conviction in the Senate, and there was little public enthusiasm to remove a popular president (remember how great the economy was in the 90's).
This time the shoe is on the other foot, except that the Democrats have far less a case than the Republicans had in 1998. Their vitriol is mostly that Trump just isn't one of the "cool kids". He practically has made Obama's legacy irrelevant. But, they're being even stupider than the Republicans were, again because the economy is good and because they're so blatantly out to get Trump.
My original comment, and this one, too, is about the politics of impeachment, and the Democrats beclown themselves by not learning from the 90's.
Recall Glenn Reynolds's wisdom: "All the Democrats have to do is not be crazy, and they can't even manage that".
One need only look to Pamela Karlan's wiki page (personal info) to understand why she attacked Barron Trump: Typical LGBLT activist resentment of "breeders."
@The Vault Dweller:
I think there is a bit of a deeper dynamic involved. That is, as we have allowed the Supreme Court ever greater power to settle contentious political issues by removing them from the democratic domain (e.g. abortion), any single nominee has become so important that people are willing to go scorched earth on the matter.
That is, as we have allowed the Supreme Court ever greater power to settle contentious political issues by removing them from the democratic domain (e.g. abortion), any single nominee has become so important that people are willing to go scorched earth on the matter.
Yeah I'll agree with that. Though I don't know about the passive voice of 'we've allowed'. Obviously I have my bias, but from my viewpoint it looks like the left have used the courts to implement personal policy preferences that can not in good faith be argued are contained within the constitution. The two big ones being Roe v. Wade and Obergefell. Obergefell in my mind being the bigger leap. Though I suppose the left have their own cases that they dislike. I'm guessing DC v. Heller is one along with Citizens United. Though I don't know if it rises to the same level, of not just being viewed as the wrong decision but being so wrong one can not in good-faith believe the constitution demanded that outcome.
I really love this country and I'm not afraid of it falling apart. I do think we need to stop the tit-for-tat game. The parties have too much power and too many people make a lot of money on political campaigns.
BUT I did think the election of Trump would be a wakeup call to the media and professional Washington. They would realize they aren't in line with a lot of people, and demonizing them as angry or dangerous or racist isn't respecting our citizens. But that didn't happen. Instead of listening, they spiraled into a tight little bitter ball.
I really didn't expect what Brennan created with the CIA. What money are they making, where, why?
That is, as we have allowed the Supreme Court ever greater power to settle contentious political issues by removing them from the democratic domain (e.g. abortion), any single nominee has become so important that people are willing to go scorched earth on the matter.
What do you mean "we" White man? (can we still tell that joke?)
I would agree 100% percent with your post except for the "we". Blame for that sin lies at the feet of the political Left in this country, going back well over 100 years. Where is the conservative Dred Scott? Plessy? Roe? Obergefell?
J Farmer,
The fault lies with the Justices. They assumed the power before The People were able to deny the Court the leeway. The damned lawyers too the power. They grabbed the Brass Ring. But like the dog who caught the car they had no idea what to do next.
Meanwhile, the legislature was all too happy to cede the difficult decisions to the Court. That removed political judgment. It placed the legislative branch one step removed from the process.
Further, the Court gave the legislative branch the ability to remove itself one more step. Thus the administrative agencies were unleashed with Chevron deference. So the legislative branch diminished itself.
Finally, and equally importantly, the 1974 Budget Act gave Congress little choice but to expand spending every year. So even budgetary decisions were held away from Congress. All told, Congress removed itself from ALL the important aspects of Article I.
It was a series of active decisions. And now all Congress has available as a means to restrict the Article II president is impeachment. Congress painted itself into an awesome, awful corner. They are a lousy lot.
Fear God and dread naught.
Farmer, you're making me sad.
Not that you're wrong.
I'm just enjoying the Trump interlude before we plunge headlong into the darkness when he's gone. Ah well, I've been saying this is a dead country walking for ten years; still is, but at least we've got some entertainment and fun. If we can stretch that out, most of us, including Althouse, will be dead and gone, or too old to care.
I don't know if I'd rather be Garland or Borked.
How about you guys? If you aren't going to get on the court after you've been nominated, would you rather not get a hearing, or have your reputation destroyed for the rest of your life?
There are no ladies and gentlemen, just the characters out of The Road Warrior and Thunderdome.”
Okay, THAT'S funny.
The flip side is you no longer have law or conventions or a system. Not even civilization as you knew it. It is all about one giant power struggle. Who is to be master, that is all.
Also funny.
Well, whatever you think of either the Bork or Garland nominations, the two cases are not exactly comparable. Bork got a hearing and a vote and was rejected. It was not the same as the Senate simply refusing to consider any Reagan nominee.
What happened to Garland was neither unprecedented nor unusual. I did the research. At the time there had been 47 failed Supreme Court nominations. Garland would make 48. Of the 48 failed Supreme Court nominations, 12 of them failed because the Senate took no action.
If you want to see a fight over nominations between a president and a Senate, check this out:
In a period lasting a little over a year from January 1844 to February 1845, President Tyler nominated five men a total of nine times, and only one, Samuel Nelson, was confirmed.
(to quote myself)
edited to correct a wrong number
Wow.at YouTube there are comments on Turley. Comments are turned off for Karlan. Wonder why.
She's ridiculous. Seconds in and she’s nearly yelling and resenting things. And she seems to imply Trump rigged the last election. And her claims about what Trump did are unevidenced at least. And asking a foreign government to investigate a legitimate topic of investigation is nothing like “demanding” that that foreign government “brand” an opponent as a crook.
understanding, for fuck's sake
You were right the first time. They have no historical u defat a ding, and that's a serious matter. A crisis, even.
Agree with a lot of the comments above regarding the Supreme Court...up to a point. But the differences are negligible and not worth getting into in an already very long thread. I enjoyed the back and forth, everyone. Enjoy your night.
narciso @4:41,
Sudan used to be moderate, too, back in the 80's. Heck, Sudan Airways had 20-something young single female stewardesses; yes they had head coverings but these consisted of a very light gauzy translucent head scarf that would not have looked out of place at Sunday morning Mass in Baltimore.
But the Muslim Brotherhood was on the rise.... They had their spectacular success in assassinating Sadat, and of course the masses in Khartoum looked on and admired them... and so Numieri declared Sharia Law to be the supreme law of Sudan in September 1983, thinking to please and mollify those masses. By the end of the month all the southern army garrisons had revolted, and Sudan Civil War II was underway.
Nowthe current regime tool ofthe janjaweed isless ialamiat
https://mobile.twitter.com/ericmetaxas/status/1202392883938185216
MayBee said...
I don't know if I'd rather be Garland or Borked.
How about you guys? If you aren't going to get on the court after you've been nominated, would you rather not get a hearing, or have your reputation destroyed for the rest of your life?
Garland got a much better deal.
GOP just said "no" to Garland.
Dems lied about Bork
Howard said...
Exactly Greg you get it it's one vendetta after another. The goals are achieved by theater that's the way politics work. Everything else is just self-delusion which so many people here love to wallow in
Wrong, Howard. it's "you made the rules, now you get to live with them."
Before Bork, the rule was "Senate approves any qualified nominee.
After Bork, it was "Senate is free to reject judicial nominees for political reasons."
It's rather insane for you to get all butt hurt just because we followed your rules.
Because if you didn't want it to happen to you, of course you wouldn't have done it to us.
The Karlan Catastrophe
"But the Democrats’ worst witness was Stanford professor Pamela Karlan. Karlan reportedly was considered for a Supreme Court appointment by Barack Obama, but rejected as too radical. She also was reported to be on Hillary Clinton’s list of potential Supreme Court nominees. Karlan came across as an obsessive Trump-hater. She testified that on one occasion, she was walking down a sidewalk and came to a Trump hotel. She said that she crossed the street so she wouldn’t have to pass in front of the Trump property. That’s some objective “expert” witness!
But Karlan’s worst moment came when she dragged the Trumps’ 13-year-old son Barron into a prepared joke."
Karlan also had a prepared speech that included a fabricated analogy involving the governors of Louisiana. She accused the president of bribing the governor of Louisiana.
She proved she is a joke and the idea of her-> on the supreme court is laughable and vile.
Karlan is a disgrace.
"Karlan’s classless and fundamentally stupid (more on that in a moment) attack is probably the one thing that most people will remember about today’s hearing. Karlan has already apologized for dragging Barron Trump into her testimony, but the damage is done.
A final observation: it is remarkable how often, when Democrats criticize President Trump, they attack him for things he hasn’t done. Karlan’s diatribe is a case in point. Trump obviously has not taken the absurd position, as she claims, that Article II gives him the power to do anything he wants. On the contrary, he has been scrupulous (unlike Barack Obama) in confining his actions to his clear constitutional powers.
The silliness of Karlan’s argument is confirmed by her reference to the Constitution’s “no title of nobility” clause. What’s the point? Her “joke” would have made sense if Trump had tried to make someone a count, or a prince, or a baron. But obviously he has not done, or contemplated, any such thing. The question frequently occurs to me: if Donald Trump is such a terrible president, why do the Democrats so often have to make up things he hasn’t done, about which to attack him?"
Sebastian at 4:24 p.m., yes. I'm afraid yes, but yes. And tank at 8:52, I'm also afraid that you're right, but I have grandchildren who deserve a chance and I hope that you and I are both wrong.
"I disagree. Yes, Clinton misbehaved, but the Republicans were poking at him long before he messed with Monica. The Whitewater controversy began, I think, in 1993, and the Special Counsel was appointed in 1994."
Clinton asked for a special counsel, and Reno appointed Fiske. The Democratic Congress revived the Independent Counsel law, and Starr was appointed later the same year. The best surmise is that the Clintons wanted to shove their works down into a legal rabbit hole where they'd be subjected to the usual process of delay, confusion, and personalizing the prosecution against them.
it drives decent people from trying to participate in the nations's governance
That's half the point.
GOP just said "no" to Garland.
Dems lied about Bork
And then there was Thomas. And Kavanaugh. Only Gorsuch escaped being smeared, but the confirmation vote was close.
Yet in between, Kagan and Sotomayor just sailed on through without a scratch. I wonder what they have in common vs Thomas and Kavanaugh. It's a puzzler.
buwaya is my go-to combination Greek chorus, seer and entropist.
Furthermore,
27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
Matt was harsh.
I can’t imagine what Election Night 2016 was like for these people. The emotional swing between 7-10 pm. must have been incredible. Certainly left a permanent scar in their political psyche.
"I can’t imagine what Election Night 2016 was like for these people."
The best part is we get to poke them again.
The Eighties called; they want their foreign policy back
Actually, they tried to call but couldn't get through, as they were using one of those old rotary-dial telephones.
Who knew Inga was a Stanford law professor?
Show of hands, please.
Don said...
"I can’t imagine what Election Night 2016 was like for these people."
Aww, come on, who can forget this?
An expert is someone who gives his opinion on YouTube about stuff.
Whenever there's a group of academics assembled to issue a judgment on any politician or political issue, would it be too much to ask them, "So what's your political bias?" Knowing professional "liberals" and "progressives" for the duplicitous weasels--and possibly self-deceptive-- they are, I'm sure a lot of the most arrant State-shtuppers in the crowd would describe themselves as "moderates" or "middle-of-the roaders;" but it would still be nice to put them to the question.
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