November 2, 2019

"Smuggling gangs in Mexico have repeatedly sawed through new sections of President Trump’s border wall in recent months by using commercially available power tools..."

"... opening gaps large enough for people and drug loads to pass through, according to U.S. agents and officials with knowledge of the damage. The breaches have been made using a popular cordless household tool known as a reciprocating saw that retails at hardware stores for as little as $100. When fitted with specialized blades, the saws can slice through one of the barrier’s steel-and-concrete bollards in a matter of minutes, according to the agents, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the barrier-defeating techniques."

From "Smugglers are sawing through new sections of Trump’s border wall" (WaPo).

81 comments:

hiawatha biscayne said...

it's why we need machine guns.

Ambrose said...

Article is intended to make the point that the border wall is futile - but it also shows that it has an impact. Presumably holes can be fixed.

Don said...

Shoot them on sight.

BarrySanders20 said...

Sawzall is a great tool. You can buy one from Amazon too!
They can start a new version called Sawzallwalls.

Michael K said...

Nobody said it would be perfect. WaPoo wants no wall.

If they have to saw through, sensors pick that up and show where the break in is.

Laslo Spatula said...

My God! It sounds like the people doing that are criminals!

I am Laslo.

Bob Boyd said...

Smugglers are sawing through new sections of America’s border wall.

Kevin said...

Shorter WAPO: Trump’s wall works.

Bob Boyd said...

They sawed through like a dog.

Bob Boyd said...

We need a mandatory sawzall buyback program.

iowan2 said...

Sounds implausible to me. Reciprocating saws are power sucks. A battery would not last past 5 minutes. The blade? I find hard to believe. I worked commercial demolition for a bit. Time is literally money. If a blade existed that performed at that level, the company would have used them.

The point, though, is cutting holes in the fence was a forgone conclusion. It was going to happen. Yes it is not air tight. Volume is seriously choked down. Slowing things down, and funneling everything to a known point. Manageable.

In short the story is of questionable accuracy (see Gell-Mann theory of news reporting) But the whole thing is a misdirection. Nothing more than a vehicle to write an anti President Trump screed.

hombre said...

WaPo writes a DIY article. Amazon offers a discount on reciprocating saws to coyotes and cartel members.

Patriots.

iowan2 said...

Analogy anyone?

How many corrections does Wapooo do everyday? We have seen the corrections that are longer than the original article.

Corrections prove Editors don't work. Don't need them. They are a waste of office space.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

I find it amusing that they have to explain what a reciprocating saw is.

Anyway, let me explain how perimeter defense works. You set up barriers around a perimeter, and then you defend the perimeter. No barrier is impervious if you don't defend it. These days that involves cameras, sensors, and human patrols. Once a breach is detected, you respond to it. Barriers exist to slow down intruders attempting to breach your perimeter and to alert defenders that a breach is being attempted so that they can respond and repel the attempted breach. These security principles apply whether you are limiting access to a data center or telecommunications hub or a national border.

Temujin said...

They're also taking over Mexico, one state at a time. This should be a major concern for US security. But we have a major political party, the party in the majority of the House of Representatives, who are instead, obsessed with removing an elected President.

Their one primary goal is the security of the nation. They have failed miserably.

I maintain- there should not be another Democrat elected for two generations.

mockturtle said...

The solution is to electrify the wall. Bigly.

Short of that, let's bring the military out of the ME and put them on the border with orders to shoot to kill. No more Mr. Nice Border Patrol crap.

gilbar said...

i wonder if anyone at the waPoo thought to ask; how LONG it takes to saw through stainless steel and concrete?

n.n said...

The wall is not viable on its own. Security is always processed in layers. Apparently, part of the problem is withheld funds that delay construction and monitoring.

They sawed through like a dog.

They cannibalized the fence like an abortionist gnawing on the bones of a Fetal-American.

Sebastian said...

Huh. I didn't know that smuggling gangs were that eager to seek asylum.

Oso Negro said...

It doesn't matter. Apparently no one associated with the Federal government gives a fuck if we have a border or not. Fuck all of those people. A wall is not, and has never been, a substitute for the will to exist as a civil society.

tim in vermont said...

Detect it with sensors, send a patrol. It’s not that hard. Ever used a sawzall? They are not quiet.

Birkel said...

No pictures on that page, just a graphic.
In no way will this increase support for unfettered illegal activity.
Normals read that and think "Let's do more and better" but WaPo will never allow itself to report as much.

Unknown said...

Washington Post. Fake. I’ll believe when homeland security admits it. This was a news item two years ago when walls were being tested.

Dave Begley said...

We need to ban those saws. Common sense saw laws. Stop saw violence to walls.

Seriously, if true a giant screwup.

But if we had cameras then we could move in at the opening and arrest all the people going through it. At least it slows them down and funnels them to a specific point for arrest.

Luke Lea said...

A biometric social security card for all American citizens, immigrants, and visa holders who are legally entitled to work in the United States would be the basis of a much more effective "Wall" especially if required not only for employment but for many other things, including using a credit or debit card, opening a bank account, signing a lease, getting a driver's license, voting, etc.

It would appear that this is something Congress people might say they support in public, but in private and especially in committee, this and similar proposals never make it to the floor for a vote.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Good thing the issue with people wanting to enter illegally to do illegal stuff is all just our imagination.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

I just used some tools to install a rail-mounted over the door wire shelf system in my pantry. The "tools" used included a power drill, socket driver, and a level. If any wapo readers need those terms explained, please let me know.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

See?
And you scoffed at the alligators.
You can't saw thru an alligator that easily.
That said, though, "where there's a will, there's a way",
and we're dealing with a highly motivated crowd.

But did you ever wonder what's the attraction? According to the ProgLibDems,
the U.S. sucks out loud.
Maybe they just want to get front row seats to this Utopia the Progz are planning on building.

Make Alligators Great Again

bagoh20 said...

Cut through in minutes? I do similar work with those saws all the time, and I call bullshit. They can do it, but it ain't in minutes unless you mean a lot of minutes. Any passive barrier can be compromised with enough time and elbow grease, but slowing them down and making it difficult was all it was ever expected to do.

The idea that people would be happy about this is just more evidence of TDS. It's not "Trumps Wall"; it's ours. Trump didn't pay for it or build it, and it's not designed to protect him.

It there any actual law breaking that Democrats do not endorse?

Big Mike said...

That's what happens when sections of the wall are built by the lowest bidder.

John R. Carpenter said...

I read the Washington Post article where it mentions several breaches made by power tools and openings big enough to allow vehicles through.

I live near the border wall in San Diego County, and I pay attention to what is going on locally. I have not seen nor heard of any breeches as described in that article. I called a few local news stations and they to have heard nothing on this.

A neighbor who is a Border Patrol Agent mentioned the Washington Post article has many key elements and wording of an NBC article dated 19 Jan 2019. See:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/test-steel-prototype-border-wall-showed-it-could-be-sawed-n956856

Decide for yourself about the similarity. So far the Washington Post article looks suspicious or fake. IHMO.

Bob Boyd said...

I've used a sawzall quite a bit. I own two of them. I'll be using one later today.
I doubt cutting through a concrete filled steel bollard is as simple and quick as the WAPO would have us believe, I don't care what kind of blade you have. It would take preparation, planning and a lot of work. And that's a lot of work the smugglers didn't have to do before.

Original Mike said...

"Sounds implausible to me. Reciprocating saws are power sucks. A battery would not last past 5 minutes. The blade? I find hard to believe. I worked commercial demolition for a bit. Time is literally money. If a blade existed that performed at that level, the company would have used them."

Why isn't there a single picture of a hole in the article? It's not like the holes move.

Browndog said...

The sawzall blade they describe does not exist.

This story is a complete fabrication.

mockturtle said...

I've been wondering what kind of multipurpose saw I should get and this type seems about right. Most come with a complete set of blades. Cordless power tools are gold! While I confess I liked it better when my late husband took care of those kinds of tasks, I'm learning to really enjoy them--so long as I don't cut off a finger or electrocute myself.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Also, defense should always be "in depth." Also known as a layered defense. Multiple defenses arranged in a manner so that if one defensive layer is breached, another layer is in place to stop further breaches. A classic example of this are castle gatehouses.

https://www.exploring-castles.com/castle_designs/gatehouse/

A more modern example would be businesses installing anti-malware software on its computers, employing a firewall, instituting multi-factor authentication, blocking certain hostnames and ip address ranges at the router level, and conducting anti-phishing education in order to attempt to prevent the ex-filtration of confidential data.

Drago said...

Original Mike: "Why isn't there a single picture of a hole in the article? It's not like the holes move."

FusionGPS hasnt photoshopped one yet.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

Criminals are doing criminal shit?

Tomcc said...

Evidently the world is an imperfect place. For example, we keep pouring billions of dollars into public education. Do we get good outcomes? No, but we continue to do it anyway.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

forget the sawzall.

STIHL TS 800 Cutquik® Cut-Off Saw w/ 16' multi-purpose blade

gas powered, cuts thru concrete and metal quite effectively.

not recommended for use on alligators.

iowan2 said...

The story is supposed to make me believe no one has ever escaped from prison. OR been suicided while behind bars.

iowan2 said...

A biometric social security card for all American citizens, immigrants, and visa holders who are legally entitled to work in the United States would be the basis of a much more effective "Wall

Not a big fan of "papers please"

I have suggested that every illegal processed should be bio-metrically ID'd. Those people once ID'd would be forever denied legal status in the US. Subsequent detention in the US would earn them a trip back to southern Mexico, without due process.

wholelottasplainin' said...

Here's a pic of a purported hole, at the NYT. A link about the hole appears under it, but doesn't show any holes, just the ways the cartels cut them.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIYJeWAX0AAhltY?format=jpg&name=900x900

Answer:

Claymore mines.

Everywhere. ON TOP of the fences.

tim in vermont said...

I am not an expert, but if I wanted to do this, I wouldn’t use a battery operated one, I would toss a generator into the back of my pickup and use it to run a hand held grinder. Presumably I would be discovered at some point. Some of the new pickups have built in generators and I want one, to back up to my dock when I need power down there. I am not as young as I used to be and tossing a generator into my truck not as easy as it once was.

tim in vermont said...

“A biometric social security card for all American citizens, immigrants, and visa holders who are legally entitled to work in the United States would be the basis of a much more effective “Wall"

Sure. Get the State of California to respect that.

Nichevo said...

1 hour equals 60 Minutes. 24 hours equals 1440 minutes. Those would be a matter of minutes. I wonder how many battery changes / charges this takes. Not to mention blades. They might as well drive up with a water knife or a laser in the truck bed.

Nichevo said...

And if they want to get through instantly, they just need enough explosives.

Josephbleau said...

This is complete bs. A battery saw has a thin 4 inch blade. Even a carbide blade will not cut steel covered 3000 psi concrete more than 1 inch deep in an hour while using 15 blades and 20 batteries. If the concrete is made with hard aggregate, like out west, you will never get thru. Do miners use cheap battery shit to cut rock out of the face in minutes? BS. Now if you used a towed 100 hp diesel air compressor and a 15” rotating diamond saw tool you could go faster, but having your $50,000 rig confiscated every day would hurt your productivity.

Jim at said...

The sawzall blade they describe does not exist.

This story is a complete fabrication.


My thoughts, as well. And if those blades do exist? I want some.

John henry said...

Story is behind a paywall but I was able to save it to Pocket ( www.getpocket.com ) and read it there. Like most others here, it seems like bullshit to me.

What kind of battery powered reciprocating saw can you buy for under $100 that could make a dent in something like this? It would be nice to have make and model.

The bollards are 6" steel pipe (Stainless steel as someone said? My guess would be standard carbon steel). 6" schedule 40 pipe is more than 1/4" thick (actually 0.28"). So you would need to saw through more than 18 linear inches of heavy steel. As someone noted, that would take a shitload of batteries. a couple dozen at least.

I think the pipe is filled with concrete 5,000PSI I think I read. So you need an 8" or longer blade that will cut both steel and concrete. Do these exist? The article claims yes but the one blade they mention is for metal only.

In any event, assuming you could find a blade that will cut both steel and concrete, a swa that will handle it and a power source it is still going to take hours, not minutes.

Here is the spec for the wall according to the Albany NY Times-Union:

"The proposed wall must also be built in a such a way that it would take at least an hour to cut through it with a "sledgehammer, car jack, pick axe, chisel, battery operated impact tools, battery operated cutting tools, Oxyacetylene torch or other similar hand-held tools.""

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Border-wall-specs-announced-11012208.php

Dallas Morning News has a similar article with the same quote from the govt but says 30 minute resistance.

NBC and WaPo both say the wall can be sawed through. Neither has pictures or says how long it will take.

Seems like a media source that was interested in such things could go out to a metal fab shop, have them fill a section of 6" pipe with concrete let it set up for 2 weeks than film them attacking it with SawzAll, $100 sabersaw, torch, grinder and anything else they can think of. See if it can be done and how long it takes.

John Henry

Jersey Fled said...

This article is meant to show people who have never used a reciprocating saw in their life (i.e. Democrats) that Trump is a dunce and should be impeached.

Bob Smith said...

Splodey drones is my solution.

John henry said...

Dave Begley says we should ban saws. I am sure he thought he was joking.

I was in Chihuahua Mexico 5-6 years back and got into a conversation with an engineer at the hotel managers night party.

There is, apparently, a huge problem with people cutting out the emissions converter in car exhaust systems. It had happened to his rental car once and was an expensive pain in the ass. They get melted down for the platinum. He told me that Sawzalls are the popular way to do it, which makes sense. Slide under the car, 2 cuts of thin wall tubing and Robert is your father's brother.

In an effort to cut this down, either Mexico or Chihuahua state outlawed Sawzalls and the like. You have to have a license to own and use one. I believe it applies to the blades too.

When Sawzalls are outlawed, only outlaws will have Sawzalls!!!

John Henry

MattDenver said...

Blades exist that can chew through metal, and blades exist that can chew through concrete. But a blade that can chew through metal and concrete simultaneously doesn't exist. Concrete requires diamond blades. Those are destroyed by steel.

The slats in Trump's wall are steel pipes filled with concrete and a core of rebar down the center. The rebar keeps the concrete in a solid cylinder.

You can grind through steel/concrete, but the disks are consumed quickly. And the spacing on the slats means you need a tiny diameter to get in there. Otherwise, you must go through many slats at a time.

The idea that you can push aside a cut slat (concrete + steel) with a jack is wrong. The concrete cylinder resists compression, and the steel casing resists tension. A cut slat is rigid. It cannot be pushed aside.

What you can cut through is the old-style (pre-Trump) fence. But we already knew that.

John henry said...

In cutting the fence tube, if you make one cut and push the fence out of the way with a jack, you now have an opening 14" wide (4" gap between pipes and 6" pipe)

That's a pretty thin gap for a person to fit through.

Why not just load all the folks into a semi-trailer, pull it to the border, unhook the trailer, hook a good stout chain to the tractor with some slack, get up a good head of steam and go. I suspect you could pull the pipe out without too much trouble.

John Henry

John henry said...

Wholelotta splainin

I remember that pic. That is not the wall, that is a prototype design, not even the final design which is round pipe.

The steel was cut with a torch, the internal concrete looks like it was cut with a grinder.

This was from the testing by DHS. Note the numbers, note also the small holes that would be hard for a person to fit through.

Does the article say how long it took?

John henry said...

To whoever posted the link to the Stihl:

I've used them. They require a LOT of water. Like a garden hose running full blast. Might not be feasible out in the desert.

Though you could bring in barrels of water, I suppose.

John Henry

jamrat said...

Time for the sentry guns.

gilbar said...

Nichevo said...
1 hour equals 60 Minutes. 24 hours equals 1440 minutes. Those would be a matter of minutes. I wonder how many battery changes / charges this takes.


Exactly! you could wear your way Through this 'wall', in a "matter of minutes", just by walking up to it, once a day, and rubbing your finger across it. (We talked about this, back in physic's class; except, in the example it was a diamond wall, and you would walk by once a year. [i can't find this on the intertubes, but it's fairly well known]. How many minutes would it take? just a Googol(10^100) of them, or so or so.
Would it be proper, to consider a length of time Orders of Magnitude greater than the expected life of the universe, to be a "matter of minutes"? Why the hell not?


11/2/19, 12:11 PM
Blogger Nichevo said...

And if they want to get through instantly, they just need enough explosives.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

NBC and WaPo both say the wall can be sawed through. Neither has pictures or says how long it will take.

Of course anything can be sawed or drilled through, if you have enough time. That's why safes and vaults are rated according to how long it will take to breach them.

Rating Time to Breach Vault
Class M 15 minutes
Class I 30 minutes
Class II 60 minutes
Class III 120 minutes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_vault

John henry said...

Blogger Skylark said...

I am not an expert, but if I wanted to do this, I wouldn’t use a battery operated one, I would toss a generator into the back of my pickup and use it to run a hand held grinder.

Me too.

I have a 3.5KW generator that is a bit smaller than a carryon suitcase and probably weighs less than 50#. I can schlep it around the house easily with one hand and I'm not even as young as you used to be.

It has an inverter so it slows to an idle when there is little load (like a few lights) them ramps up when the fridge kicks in. Very quiet. Runs several hours on the internal gas tank.

When we were without electric for 4 months I used it to power the whole house including fridge but not A/C or electric stove or water heater.

It is some no brand Chinese unit that cost about $300. I ran it a couple hundred hours with no problems.

My son has a similar one made by Yamaha that he bought in Costco.

Probably cheaper than building one into a truck unless you needed it all the time.

John Henry

gilbar said...

so, other than his Hatred of President Trump;
WHY is Drudge intentionally turning his site into Fake News?

gilbar said...

wouldn't ya think, that IF this was REALLY happening; they would have used REAL pictures?
The waPoo article doesn't show Any cuts; at ALL
The drudge report shows something from a 3 year old test

rcocean said...

Haha. Isn't it GREAT, that smugglers are tearing up Trump's wall? Haha. So what are they smuggling in? Maybe some sex slaves? Maybe some illegal guns or drugs? Oh well, who cares. 'Cause it hurts Trump. Haha.

rcocean said...

Do you realize that the smugglers could be carrying - wait for it - babies? Illegaly gotten babies for illegal adoption in the USA. Think about it, Brown babies in cages - or knapsacks - AT THE BORDER! OMG. Alert Laura Bush.

Mike Wallens said...

Shocking. Because I'm sure all illegal aliens have LI battery powered Sawzalls. And sawing through that portion of the wall does not slow them down at all or restrict illegal entry in the slightest. I guess the absolute only decision is to have no wall, border enforcement and no attempt to slow illegal entry because clearly it is absolutely impossible to impact it in the slightest bit.

John henry said...

Blogger gilbar said...

Exactly! you could wear your way Through this 'wall', in a "matter of minutes", just by walking up to it, once a day, and rubbing your finger across it.

There was an article a few weeks ago about ICE people spotting someone spraying some liquid on the wall near Tiajuana. Speculation was that it was a corrosive agent that would rust away the base of the wall. At least on the Mexican side.

It immediately made me think of this Seinfeld scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuAtKChV7sM

Kramer decides to sabotage the Mexican store by taking the dessicant pouches from the clothes. "In 2 or 3 years, Elaine, the clothes will be musty."

Why does everything seem to resemble a Seinfeld episode?

John Henry

John henry said...

Blogger gilbar said...

WHY is Drudge intentionally turning his site into Fake News?

This:


Drudge sold out to Big Tech!
October 4, 2019 by IWB

If you’ve noticed that @DRUDGE_REPORT isn’t the same any more, you’re not alone.

A friend writes:

“Ron, what is going on with @DRUDGE and his recently ending his decade long independent advertising agency for his website?

“He recently signed on with a Google affiliated company, which purchased Matt Drudge’s father’s website, RefDesk, as part of the deal.


https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/drudge-sold-out-to-big-tech/

I've seen similar stories elsewhere as well.

John Henry

mockturtle said...

Several years ago my mother advocated a policy, announced in advance, that all people crossing our border illegally would be shot. She claimed that, if enforced, it would slow illegal immigration considerably. :-) I think she was right. Any other form of foreign invasion of this magnitude would be met by military force, would it not? And make no mistake--the cartels are a military entity.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

@John Henry
you dont need the water. A 'dry' blade is made for this, to go thru
both re-bar and concrete with no water. The water hook-up is nice, and keeps the dust down, but not necessary with this type of blade.

As mentioned no doubt many times already, the ProgLibDem snark about breaching the wall is geared for their dopey base with no critical thinking skills, since any barrier can be defeated.

Josephbleau said...

Ingachuck: So you don't need water?? How do you cool the blade when it goes thru even a half inch of steel or cct. after cutting thru an inch of concrete your super blade will be at the melting point of any steel. The first law of thermo says energy is converted to heat, don't make me pull out my Cv table. Plain physics, man.

Josephbleau said...

Mining drills are flushed with many gpm of water even to drill a 1.5 inch hole, otherwise the carbide wear elements would break up and detach. dust control is a side benefit.

Kevin said...

So far the Washington Post article looks suspicious or fake. IHMO.

Next we'll find out the wall they described was in Kentucky.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

@Josephblaue

The All Cut Red Blade is intended for cutting on concrete, fiberglass, copper, bullet-proof glass, pvc, plastic, metal roofs, steel studs, railroad rail, rebar and other steel materials. Use this blade dry or wet. Specially made for metal saws and gas cut off saws.

we own and operate this equipment.
As we stated earlier, the water is nice, but not necessary. Rather than pulling out your Cv tables, get the saw and the blade and try it in real-life. Plain reality, man.

MacMacConnell said...

Ingachuck
Is correct, a hot saw doesn't need water. Have used them many times mostly dry, but water helps keep the dust down if cutting inside a structure.


Like I've posted before, just slam 6000 volts into the fence every ten seconds. Let the coyotes clean up at night.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

@Josephbleua

go to 6:46 min mark. Cheap Dry blade. About 5 seconds to get 1" deep
no "melting point of any steel"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG4waygHG6I

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

@Josepphblaeu

even better vid. Sciency, even! Summary at 3:25 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcS37A_jy0w

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

thanks, @MacMac !!

Paul said...

No problem!!!! Sound detectors can be used to localize where the tools are being used to break into the wall. Then just call UAVs with Hellfires to fix 'em.

Josephbleau said...

Yes that looks like a good saw, I have only seen the big air powered circular saws, as I said would work. But I still think a battery reciprocating saw would not do the job. I admit I am out of date on new gas circular saws.

holdfast said...

No obstacle is impenetrable. All obstacles must be covered by observation and/or fires.

But an obstacle allows a smaller force to defend a larger frontage. Duh.