Mickey please stick to immigration as you’re more than a bit out of your depth here. https://t.co/PnxdaMcRc0
— Daniel W. Drezner (@dandrezner) November 12, 2019
November 13, 2019
Dan Drezner tells Mickey Kaus he's out of his depth.
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Oh my. The "elites" are not happily suffering the mere mortal musings of the deplorable peasants are they?
No humans involved
Kaus makes a solid point. Sorry. The further these hearings go, the clearer that is, even if he did deliver it with a little mustard.
When Dan Drezner is next right about something, it'll be the first time.
Who the hell is Dan Drezner?
New TV Show: "When Pundits Attack"
You're not even blogging the best bits of the exchange. Drezner says, "Mickey please stick to immigration as you’re more than a bit out of your depth here," Kaus responds, "Please, be more condescending." Drezner says, "Happy to oblige. You’re wrong on immigration, wrong on Ukraine (unless you’re trying to claim the US instigated the Maidan protests). Your intellectual trajectory has been on a downward trajectory for two decades." Kaus responds, "I suppose it would be a cheap shot to link to this astute, not-out-of-depth analysis https://web.archive.org/web/20180112225128/http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/000580.html . . . I should defer to my betters."
The removal of a president through impeachment should only occur when there has been clear and obvious wrong doing by said president that's been uncovered and presented to the public openly. And it should specifically be wrong doing of the sort that most people will agree is indefensible and unjustifiable and obviously just plain bad. Anything short of that will feel more like a coupe, and will therefore divide the country and abet chaos.
I don't believe that sort of wrong doing is what we have here. Despite the best efforts of Adam Schiff, it still feels like a lot of opinions on events gleaned from second hand accounts rather than clear facts about clear wrong doing that is indefensible.
I used to read Drezner back when he was in Chicago. Since the Tufts move, his politics have shifted considerably. He's not nearly as willing to take on the liberal bêtes noires. Similarly to how Megan McArdle's politics shifted when she took the WaPo gig.
Howard: "No humans involved"
The baby parts merchants speak!
The dems dont consider the babies human either.
Drezner's attempt at wit...
Assumes facts not in evidence
Kaus really lit into Drezner in response. I can't help but love Mickey. He was the first political blogger I ever read, and I've been reading him for 20 years at this point. I followed him to Bloggingheads and Bloggingheads to here. Though I suppose it's up for debate how good a thing that was. Nonetheless, Kaus said it all when he said: "In my experience when you provoke a snotty, contentless put-down like this, it means you're over the target. Does the anti-Russia FP elite at some level realize its Ukraine policy was problematically aggressive (eg from a democracy POV)? When you feel guilty you react angrier!"
In response to Mickey tweeting, "Please, be more condescending...", Drezner tweeted this sneering reply: "Happy to oblige. You’re wrong on immigration, wrong on Ukraine (unless you’re trying to claim the US instigated the Maidan protests). Your intellectual trajectory has been on a downward trajectory for two decades." Mickey responded by tweeting a link to an old smug Drezner post attacking anti-Iraq War advocates.
That's the usual rap on Mickey in "respectable" circles. Ben Smith published a piece in BuzzFeed about four years ago condescendingly titled, "What The Hell Happened To Mickey Kaus?" He is "obsessed with immigration." Of course there is plenty of speculation that Mickey is motivated by (gasp!) nativist concerns. I think that was Andrew Sullivan's typical line. Robert Wright would incessantly take Mickey to task for (gasp!) being friends with Ann Coulter. Matt Yglesias, Ezra Klein, and the rest of the juicebox mafia used to sneer at Kaus over his "obsession" with the John Edwards love child story. Of course that blew up in their faces, made them look like the neophytes they were, and vindicated Kaus. Mickey was also the person who blew the lid on the Journolist ring and demonstrated that the members were, in fact, attempting to coordinate messaging strategies.
In short, god bless Mickey.
I can't help but love Mickey. He was the first political blogger I ever read, and I've been reading him for 20 years at this point. I followed him to Bloggingheads and Bloggingheads to here.
Same for me, except the path was Kaus to Instapundit to Althouse.
Oh Yeah, Drezner is the guy that didn't get tenure at the University of Chicago. Kaus is the guy that...??? We are watching the B team here.
In short, god bless Mickey.
Same. Maybe living in LA has made him very conscious of mass immigration? Like, extremely? And also recalls the old union Dem position.
I voted for #3 because you didn't give me my preferred answer, which is that Drezner is a self-important ass.
i wanted
option E... Try it, and find out what all our AR-15's are for
Anyone like Drezner who advocated for the Iraq War should be much more humble.
Kaus has an interesting take on issues. He’s not a flamethrower or asshole.
Like Martin, I voted for #3 because it was the only option which correctly states that Mickey is, well, correct. But my preferred answer would incorporate part of #2 — IMHO Drezner is not trying to be witty, he is merely rude and shallow. But with Dreamer ‘twas ever thus.
Kaus is still good after all these years. Dan hasn't been good in a long time.
"We only want comments from people at our depth, that is, neck deep in the swamp."
You're out of your element, Danny.
Mickey was a good friend of Cathy Seipp. Good enough for me.
The other guy I haven't heard of.
Cathy Siepp--she was great.
RIP.
It's not such a big step, and Drezner illustrates it: the same arrogant condescension runs through the deep state.
Drezner doesn't seem like a bad guy, but he's never says anything original and just spouts the Establishment/DC Conventional Wisdom on every subject. I've never been able to understand why he's on Blogging-heads or why people think he's an "Expert". But maybe I'm missing something.
Kaus, on the other hand, is an original thinker and frequently thinks outside the box. Sometimes he thinks too far outside, but that's the risk you take.
Kaus was the one who exposed the Journolist? I didn't know that. That was indeed a great service. He was already one of only about 3 self identified liberals left that I still have any respect for (our hostess among them), but that raises my estimation of him considerably.
And, of course, he's correct here.
I've seen Drezner do the following:
Conventional wisdom is X. Drezner - "Anybody who thinks NOT X is a fool, haha"
Time passes
Conventional wisdom is NOT X. Drezner - "Anybody who thinks X is a fool. haha"
Last comment. Another problem with Drezner is he's full of "arrogant condensation" when he has nothing to be arrogant about. He just doesn't have the intelligence to pull it off.
No the daily caller did, if memory serves.
I think we should all cut Drezner some slack. He was so prescient about the wisdom af invading Iraq....
William taylor was part of the mismanagememt of reaources in iraq and afghanistan, quelle surprise.
That whole thread was a clear Kaus victory- you missed the best parts of it. Honestly, if there were no Mickey Kaus, we would have to invent him. Drezner should probably stick to insulting coma patients.
J. Farmer at 1:36 p.m. nailed it.
here's an interesting twist, anonymous's 'agent' is matt latimer, who wrote a tell all memoir about a decade ago, maybe he's just as likely the actual author,
If you need any clearer indictment of US politics and journalism, look no further than the respective career trajectories of Mickey and Ezra Klein. Kaus is a quirky, out-of-the-box truth teller unafraid to call out his own side when he thinks it has gone too far. Klein is a dull, conventional wisdom-spewing suck up to power and influence. Kaus is unemployed, lives in a small apartment in Venice, and supports himself with inheritance money. Klein is the multi-millionaire of Vox. He is the explainer-in-chief of American internet media.
And people want to take me to task for being a pessimist :D
"And people want to take me to task for being a pessimist"
Of course we do, and rightly so. Try being a realist instead. Yes, there are a lot of unfavorable things at the moment, but those who say they are insurmountable and counsel despair are almost as harmful as the opposition itself.
because klein came from a small blog to the soros archipelago of publications, to creating the journalist, to the Washington post to vox,
https://dailycaller.com/2019/11/13/joseph-mifsud-audio-recording/
Farmer: "Kaus is unemployed, lives in a small apartment in Venice, and supports himself with inheritance money. Klein is the multi-millionaire of Vox. He is the explainer-in-chief of American internet media."
Klein may come from a bit of money but he still needed to go hat in hand to Jeff Bezos to ask for the estimated $10M needed to convert the Washington Post Wonkblog into its own operation.
Bezos, who can drop $10M just by sneezing, refused to fund the internal spinoff which led Klein and a couple other WP writers and tech types to seek other opportunities.
The dudes at Vox Media (which already owned half a dozen sites like Polygon, the Verge,etc) was looking for a news site and bought the idea and set the WP exiles up as Vox News.
Klein apparently didnt have ready access to that kind of capital.
and they have made progress only under zelensky's administration,
https://thefederalist.com/2019/11/13/adam-schiffs-star-witness-just-admitted-burisma-should-be-investigated-for-corruption/
Shirley they can't be cereal,
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/culture/gabriel-hays/2019/11/13/so-serious-nbcnewscom-swoons-over-drag-queen-impeachment
a daisy chain of hearsay,
https://twitter.com/shipwreckedcrew/status/1194698279063150592?s=20
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/11/13/hearing-highlights-jordan-stefanik-and-ratcliffe-deconstruct-impeachment-narrative/
yes what about that?
https://saraacarter.com/nikki-haley-we-need-to-look-into-president-obamas-role-in-the-russia-situation/
William taylor was part of the mismanagememt of reaources in iraq
Lee Smith book says the deep state went after Trump in the first place because of Flynne, who want to clean up the mess in the IC.
It's kind of interesting, I always assumed that changing immigration policy was the most disruptive thing Trump wanted to do, but this foreign policy stuff appears to be even more threatening to the establishment.
Mickey's father, Otto Kaus, was a highly regarded appellate justice in California. I can't imagine he left a fortune.
@AZ Bob:
Mickey's father, Otto Kaus, was a highly regarded appellate justice in California. I can't imagine he left a fortune.
Otto actually served on the California Supreme Court in the first half of the 1980s. I was not saying that he left a fortune, but Mickey is a single guy in his late 60s. Assuming he managed his own money halfway decently, it is not a stretch to imagine that the money he got by way of inheritance is enough to provide for his needs without a regular stream of income. The money he would've inherited merely by the sell of his parents' home could provide that. Though admittedly it would've been split with his brother, Stephen.
Blast from the past: Here is a Bloggingheads from December 2007 between Ann and Stephen Kaus.
@Automatic_Wing:
It's kind of interesting, I always assumed that changing immigration policy was the most disruptive thing Trump wanted to do, but this foreign policy stuff appears to be even more threatening to the establishment.
Most certainly. Recall that the two of the primary areas Trump distinguished himself from the rest of the GOP pack were his positions on immigration and foreign policy. It is no surporise they are two of the areas where his position is most loathed. The Establishment is all in favor of a policy of what Steve Sailer has described as "invade the word, invite the world."
Interestinger and Interestinger.
Document purporting to show the rumored payments the the Bidens and Kerrys surfaced tonight.
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/11/13/leaked-documents-ukrainian-general-prosecutors-office/
Isn't Ezra Klein the guy that used to be on Mourning Joe on a daily basis years ago. He stated that the US Constitution was a meaningless obsolete document one day on the show, he disappeared.
MacMacConnell: "Isn't Ezra Klein the guy that used to be on Mourning Joe on a daily basis years ago. He stated that the US Constitution was a meaningless obsolete document one day on the show, he disappeared."
Ezra is the dude who said the Constitution was difficult to understand because it was written, like, dude, over 100 years ago!!
Like Martin, I voted for #3 because it was the only option which correctly states that Mickey is, well, correct. But my preferred answer would incorporate part of #2 — IMHO Drezner is not trying to be witty, he is merely rude and shallow. But with Drezner ‘twas ever thus.
Kaus is worth reading. Here he is on the president:
He's President of the United States. Been president for almost three years. He's now realizing his administration is stocked with people who hate him? It's like he just discovered he's a real estate developer.
And on the economy:
Meanwhile, Derek Thompson of The Atlantic has pointed up some less publicized stats about the bottom of the income distribution--where a variety of indicators show that wages are not only finally rising at the bottom, but they're rising faster for those workers than for the richest Americans. Trump's presidency seems to be delivering on what was its most important promise: to bring back the incomes of people too often dismissed as the economy's "losers."
Kaus has explained where he was coming from in The Maidan's Tale. It's actually quite good. It begins:
I haven't tweeted anything that's pissed off as many people as this (on 11/12) :
"I suppose if the Respectable Interagency Consensus on Ukraine is willing to righteously remove a democratically elected president -- in Ukraine (2014) -- it's not such a big step to justify doing the same thing in the US."
Tufts professor Dan Drezner immediately tweeted, paternally, "you're more than a bit out of your depth"-- though he was understandably too busy to explain why. David Frum chided that Trump wasn't "democratically elected,” since Hillary won the popular vote — a point echoed by a massive Twitter troll army that apparently follows Frum (who knew?).
OK, make it "constitutionally elected," then. The same point applies. It's an obvious point, almost elephant-in-roomy. But apparently a sensitive point!
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