November 25, 2019

"But in temperatures like this, you don’t die of the cold. You drown. Within the first five seconds your body goes into shock..."

"... it’s very difficult to breathe. The only thing I can do is count every stroke, 'One. Two. Breathe. Three. Four. Breathe.' It doesn’t get any better after that. As the cold envelops you, it gnaws at your muscles and they start seizing up. Stretching one arm in front of the other gets harder and harder because you’re shivering – everything feels strained. I’m only wearing Speedos, goggles and a cap; I don’t grease my body for insulation like long-distance sea swimmers usually do, because if a seal or a killer whale goes for me, my team could struggle to drag me to safety.... As I reached the last 150 metres of the swim, I went past a group of elephant seals basking on the shore. Six times the size of a polar bear, they’re slow on land but in the water they’re as slick as they are powerful...."

I'm reading "What it feels like to swim in sub-zero waters/Plunging into the ocean near Antarctica, Lewis Pugh was determined to push the limits of human endurance." It's in The Economist, so "sub-zero" is sub-zero centigrade. It was -3˚C, so only 26.6° Fahrenheit. He goes one "kilometre," and that's 0.6 of a mile. I think it would be easy to run 0.6 of a mile in a bathing suit when it's 26.6°, so it's that mysterious difference between air and water... that and the seals six times the size of a polar bear. But they were sunbathing, not swimming alongside.



That difference between air and water is, of course, huge. Here's the article "What is cold water?" and says water feels "quite cold" to most people when it's 70°. And "cold shock" — where you lose control of your breathing — reaches its "maximum intensity" between 60-50F (15-10C). But you can get past the cold shock. That's what you need to remember if you ever find yourself in that position. The Icelandic fisherman Gudlaugur Fridthorsson swam 6 hours in 41-43F (5-6C) water until he got to shore after a shipwreck that killed the 4 others on the boat. His advantage was obesity.

70 comments:

Ann Althouse said...

Don't miss the video at 1:26. I think it's what Elon Musk has in mind for the next demonstration of the Cyber Truck.

mockturtle said...

A friend's husband in Sweden, who was very fit and healthy, died of cardiac arrest when he went swimming in cold water.

wild chicken said...

I thought a kilometer was .6 miles. Six tenths.

Freeman Hunt said...

Why aren't more lifeguards obese? There are plenty of strong obese people around. If a ripped guy swims out to save you, you are trusting completely in his athleticism and endurance. If he wears out, he'll sink like a stone. But if an obese guy swims out to save you, you can kind of relax because he could always float along like a raft, a life raft for you.

Ann Althouse said...

"I thought a kilometer was .6 miles. Six tenths."

Right. I knew that. Don't know why I wrote "one sixth." Fixed now.

WK said...

At first I thought this was going to be another set up for a Kim Kardashian selfie.

Michael K said...

I once treated a young man for severe hypothermia after he fell asleep on drugs in front of a room air conditioner. When he came in his body temp was below 90. We were rewarming him but he died of an arrhythmia before we could get his body temp up.

John henry said...

Freeman,

Anyone can float forever, fast or thin.

I it's all in the breathing.

As long as you don't empty your lungs completely, you'll never sink.

I occasionally take naps floating in the ocean.

John Henry

gilbar said...

What is with Brits and bizarre units of measurement?
Even before they left reality, and embraced the artificial "metric" "system", they weren't even able to use Real measurements. They had NO IDEA that an Actual pint had 16 ounces, and they didn't know what gallons were; to say Nothing of weights. A hundredweight is 112 pounds? HELLO STONERS wake up!

stevew said...

That water is stealing your body heat faster than you can make more.

Anonymous said...

Runners used to carb up for the Big Race. Now, we see you should carb up for the Death Race.

MadisonMan said...

HELLO STONERS
1 stone is 14 pounds.

rehajm said...

I suspect Farmers hasn’t seen that...

rehajm said...

As in Titanic, a fat tired lifeguard creates a bit of a Jack situation.

Original Mike said...

I jumped into Lake Superior in October once. Literally could not draw a breathe. Fortunately it was not over my head so I just stood up. But wow, never doing that again.

Big Mike said...

His advantage was obesity

So Big Mike should be Big Fat Mike if he wants to swim in freezing water. Ah, maybe I should keep the weight down and just stay out of the freezing cold water!

Clark said...

We routinely jumped into ice cold water in the UP where I grew up.

We kept a hole cut and cleared of ice just off the end of the dock, ready for the quick dash from the hot sauna to the icy water. Those were the days, my friend. Nobody stayed in long. You could feel the numbing cold begin instantly to move inward from the surface of your skin. I can't imagine doing that without first spending at least 20 minutes sitting in intense heat.

Virgil Hilts said...

The Book re the Titanic - Night to remember - recounts story of one of the ship mates who realized that the boat was going to sink (perhaps earlier than most) and so promptly went to his cabin/bunk and broke out bottle of whiskey or something strong and got as drunk as he could, knowing that it might help him survive the cold water for a few minutes longer. He survived.

Virgil Hilts said...

As usual I have all the facts wrong. https://nationalpost.com/news/there-was-no-great-shock-or-anything-how-a-baker-survived-the-titanic-disaster-by-getting-really-drunk

john said...

My wife and I took a hike on Ano Nuevo beach once. A huge elephant seal blocked nearly the whole beach between the water line and cliffs and we had to decide whether to brave walking around his head or get wet. (Or run over the top of him.) We got wet.

Spread out on the beach they are just friggin huge.

Virgil Hilts said...

Turns out that the "get really, really drunk to survive in cold water" only works in really cold water. "But the water temperature of the North Atlantic (reportedly -2 C) was cold enough to cause Joughin’s blood vessels to constrict and, therefore, counterbalance the effect of the booze. What’s more, because of his inebriated condition, Joughin was relaxed and, well, feeling no pain. Unlike the 1,500 panicky passengers, who were wildly thrashing about in the water and hyperventilating (thus speeding up the loss of body temperature, causing them to freeze to death or drown), Joughin was able to keep his wits about him..."

Tomcc said...

When I was about 10, I was determined to dive from the diving board into our local community swimming pool shortly after it opened for the summer (probably early June). It never occurred to me that the water would be as cold as it was- this was in western PA. That's as close as I ever came to drowning. Fortunately, I was only about 15 feet from the ladder.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Humans having subcutaneous fat all over our bodies is one of the reasons cited in various theories that we have a semi aquatic past in our evolution. Mammals that are aquatic almost all have this feature. We are the only primates with this feature.

Fat is buoyant and insulating. Babies are born with this layer of fat and also have the automatic reflex to hold their breath in water.

/shrug

Automatic_Wing said...

What’s more, because of his inebriated condition, Joughin was relaxed and, well, feeling no pain.

He...had become...Comfortably Numb.

Crimso said...

All other things being equal, rate of heat transfer between a liquid and a "solid" (your body) will generally be much faster than rate of heat transfer between a gas (air) and your body, assuming the liquid and the gas are at the same temperature (e.g., -3 C).

Curious George said...

Years ago I went through the at our long home in northern WI. Fortunately the water was waist deep or so. I remember the cold shock but it was long lasting. The worst part was walking home across the ice with frozen jeans...it was below zero. The experience did provide a serious respect for the safety rules of being on frozen bodies of water.

A friend of mine and his wife got hypothermia when the heater on their water bed failed. The water didn't get too cold either, just colder than their body temp.

Curious George said...

"All other things being equal, rate of heat transfer between a liquid and a "solid" (your body)"

Our bodies aren't a solid, they're mostly water.

gspencer said...

If you're gonna go into cold water, if you insist on doing it, then the only way in is the plunge. There's no such thing as easing your way in.

Freeman Hunt said...

"As in Titanic, a fat tired lifeguard creates a bit of a Jack situation."

But say he's 400 pounds. There's probably a very muscled 200 pound guy under there to hold up the 400, so you've got 100 pounds of fat to hold up the 200 pound guy underneath the fat, and 100 pounds of fat to hold up you. Plenty to go around as long as he's sufficiently fat.

Larry J said...

I had a memorable experience with very cold water when I was an 18 year old paratrooper at Fort Bragg. In January of 1976, our CO said we were going to make a water jump. Being young and dumb, that sounded like fun. Instead of parachuting into water (very dangerous), they took us out to an outlying post called Camp McCall. We ran around a real butt-kicker of an obstacle course twice to get really warmed up, then came the ‘water jump’. We climbed up to a rope 40 feet above a deep stream that was frozen everywhere the water wasn’t flowing. We crawled along the rope to the middle of the stream and called out, “Permission to hang free, Sergeant.” “Hang free.” “Permission to drop, Sergeant.” “Drop.” “Airborne!”

The fall to the water took just over a second. I don’t know if it was the shock of the cold water or if I leaned forward a bit, but my breath was knocked out of me. I clawed to the surface and swan as quickly as possible for the shore. There was a ice covered cargo net draped into the water that I used to climb out. Our dry clothes were over a quarter mile away. I started moving slowly and the sergeant yelled at me to run. “I am!” As I moved, I loosened up and was running quite fast by the time I reached my clothes. Shrinkage is a very real thing, something no 18 year old wants to see.”

rcocean said...

I'm just spitballin' here, but i think this swimming in really cold water could be dangerous. Swimming in 35 degree water makes about as much sense as jumping in a cactus patch. I never go swimming unless the Water Temp is at least 70 degrees. And that's not Celsius.

tcrosse said...

When our ship went to sea in the North Atlantic, there would always be a Man Overboard drill, although in those waters we were told that the Man Overboard would only last 15 minutes. If the ship was steaming along, a person who fell over the side would most likely be sucked through the screws and ground up.

Howard said...

You really need to smell the elephant seal reserve at Ano Nuevo to get the full experience

rcocean said...

The video said the heat loss in water was 25 times that of air. This seems excessive, but I'm probably wrong.

Howard said...

Rcocean: livin' la vida cucko

Churchy LaFemme: said...

And then there's Natalia Avseenko.

rcocean said...

Not many people want to eat their lunch while being near the seals. People like elephant seals, and so do great white sharks.

tcrosse said...

The fastest way to thaw a frozen turkey is to immerse it in cool water.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

Survival of the fattest.

pacwest said...

I did the Polar Plunge when I was much younger, a charity event in Anchorage. You can't breathe from the second you hit the water. All you can think of is GET OUT!!! I'm not sure I could have even done that without help. Panic is a major issue.

I did some cold water diving fully geared for 33° water. The only thing exposed is your lips which become numb after a couple of minutes. No way could I swim half a mile unprotected in those temps. No way. Video, or it didn't happen.

Curious George said...

"The fastest way to thaw a frozen turkey is to immerse it in cool water."

Hot water would thaw it faster.

Caligula said...

"mysterious difference between air and water" .. the specific heat of water is about 4182 J/K/kg at 20C. Which might be a reason why firefighters use water rather than cold air to put out fires: the rate of heat transfer is a whole lot higher, as it takes a great deal of energy to heat the water. When you're out in cold air there's almost always a layer of warmer air near your skin (and even if there isn't, the rate of heat transfer will be much lower).

Anyway, I remember a day on the Maine seacoast in late August: a nice sandy beach, sunny day with air temps at about 90F, lots of people on the beach, bu,t no one's in the water.

Then I learned the water temp. was 59F(15C). A few sturdy kids would run in and immediately back out, but none seemed able to remain in it.

Rick.T. said...

You can easily put your hand in a 400 degree oven with no issues. Don’t try dunking it a 212 degree pot of boiling water.

stevew said...

In Boy Scouts (late 60's) I learned that you can boil water in a paper vessel over an open flame. Works like a charm. Amazing stuff, water.

JaimeRoberto said...

In 4th grade we took a field trip to Ano Nuevo. I still remember having to evacuate a part of the beach where to male elephant seals were getting ready to rumble like a couple of frat boys fighting over a woman. Those are some big animals. The seals that is.

mockturtle said...

Thawing a frozen turkey in hot water would thaw the external parts to unsafe temperatures while the interior would still be frozen.

traditionalguy said...

The Wisconsin folks seem especially interested in freezing to death. Not that there is anything wrong with that. May be a collective subconscious of the last Ice Age from all those moraines everywhere.Either that or it could be memories from the old country of Norge. All we fear down in Dixie is a frosty morn.

daskol said...

It's that time of the year again when turning my shower to cold is really, really cold. What is an invigorating test of my willpower each morning has turned into something I start dreading the moment I get out of bed. I hope the Amazon Echo is placed far enough from the bathroom that Alexa can't hear my shrieks. I bet my neighbor can.

OnlyInCA said...

If you really want to see some big elephant seals check out the Southern variety. Those shown in the video were the Northern variety. We just returned a month ago from photography trip to the sub-Antarctic islands where we were photographing the Southern Elephant seals in addition to the King penguins, etc. and those guys can be up to 40% bigger than the northern variety. You really do have to give them plenty of berth—plus they are totally disgusing as far as their hygeine and personal habits go!! Not totally different from walking along the streets of SF

Bill Peschel said...

From Unknown's link: "Apparently the beluga whales don't bond easily with people in wetsuits, so scientists asked Avseenko to strip down to swim with the whales and get them used to human company."

Anything to get 'em out of their kit.

Brian said...

The rule of thumb I learned as a lifeguard (or maybe it was in the Boy Scouts) was:

"You have a 50% chance of swimming 50 yard in 50 degree water."

Given that we have the internet now, I just googled this: So I guess I'm wrong.

http://www.coldwatersafety.org/FiftyFifty.html

I don't like swimming in cold water though. Cold sucks.

Iman said...

Fatman for the gold!

madAsHell said...

I remember playing tackle football at the beach club in the rain. When we were completely soaked in rain, mud and testosterone, we decided what harm would it be to jump in Lake Washington.

It was the worst cold/flu/creeping crud I ever suffered

Bay Area Guy said...

This thread makes me wanna me wanna take a nice hot tub tonight, sipping some Peppermint Schnapps.

Gabriel said...

What humans sense as "cold" is not really temperature but loss of thermal energy.

This is easy to demonstrate. Find an outhouse with two seats, one wood and one metal. On a pitch black 50 degree night, the human bottom can easily tell which is which, even though both are the same temperature, but the metal one will feel colder because it transfers thermal energy away more quickly.

50 degree air will make some people put on a jacket, and 50 degree water will kill some people in minutes; it's the heat transfer not the temperature.

Howard said...

Us squishy libtards would camp out overnight to get our kids enrolled into the militaristic Santa Cruz Jr Guards. Then they spend summer drilled in calisthenics by lifeguards, running on the soft sand, swimming in 55-F water, surfing, diving, more running more calisthenics. Wetsuits not allowed.

Megaera said...

Running rescue you learn that a lot of calls involve unconscious patients on tile floors: you'd be surprised how many of those patients need treatment for hypothermia in addition to whatever caused the loss of consciousness in the first place. Even in normal room temps bodies in contact with tile or stone lose heat FAST. Cold water, from my canoeing experience, is much much worse.

tcrosse said...

The thermal conductivity of a material is a measure of its ability to conduct heat. Thermal mass is the ability of a material to absorb and store heat energy. A lot of heat energy is required to change the temperature of high density materials like concrete, bricks and tiles. They are therefore said to have high thermal mass.

Money Manger said...

I heard Lewis Pugh as an inspirational speaker at a business event a few back. He told the story of swimming the north pole in a speedo. Voluntarily. Good speaker. But the audience was like, Dude, next time bring a wetsuit.

chickelit said...

I try to swim each day in an outdoor pool kept at 80 F year round. It can feel too warm in the summer but it's just right in the winter.

Dr Weevil said...

Howard (1:12pm):
"You really need to smell the elephant seal reserve at Ano Nuevo to get the full experience."
You expect elegant odors at a place called "New Asshole"? You and john (12:10pm) and JaimeRoberto (2:36pm) should have headed to Año Nuevo (= "New Year") instead.
(I sure hope Blogspot doesn't remove the tilde and ruin my joke.)

Dr Weevil said...

It didn't! Whew, joke intact.

John said...

It is amazing what technology can tell us about the human ability to survive. Last year there was a mid-air collision between an F/A-18 and a KC-130 and in the investigation the Garmin Watch on the pilot of the F/A-18 was able to confirm how long he survived.
https://sofrep.com/news/adrift-at-sea-for-10-hours-downed-marine-pilots-smartwatch-data-reveals-his-tragic-end/

Birkel said...

Off Topic:

https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2019/11/who-pays-the-tax-on-imports-from-china.html

https://libertystreeteconomics.typepad.com/.a/6a01348793456c970c0240a4c684c1200d-500wi

I guess people like a certain unnamed racist fopdoodle will have to generate new lies.

effinayright said...

JaimeRoberto said...
In 4th grade we took a field trip to Ano Nuevo. I still remember having to evacuate a part of the beach where to male elephant seals were getting ready to rumble like a couple of frat boys fighting over a woman.
***********************Asserting as facts matter not in evidence.

Has ANYONE ever seen "frat boys fighting over a women"?

Where? When?

Methinks your blind prejudices over matters you know nothing about are showing badly.

OTOH we read almost every day how Hispanic men kill their ex-girlfriends' babies, "to teach them a lesson"

Birkel said...

The links I posted above are the Fed admitting tariffs have NOT increased consumer prices.
I can explain why theory supported the idea that China would be forced to eat the losses.
But you'll have to pay me.

DavidUW said...

This seems like an ideal situation to avoid.

wildswan said...

"Bay Area Guy said...
This thread makes me wanna me wanna take a nice hot tub tonight, sipping some Peppermint Schnapps."

Same, except whiskey with hot water and a slice of orange stuck with cloves.

Scott said...

Don't know if any others have mentioned her, but Lynne Cox is an amazing distance and cold water swimmer; swam a mile or two in Antarctica and swam across the Bering Strait. They had a documentary on her several years ago for her Antarctic swim -- her body has the ability to insulate and preserve her core temperature (and keep her muscles moving) to a greater degree than most other people.

Rusty said...


"I did the Polar Plunge when I was much younger, a charity event in Anchorage."
I did that once!!
Not on purpose. It was duck hunting in Nov. It was 20 degF. It was dark. The boat hit a submerged object. I went ass over tea kettle into the water. Thankfully the river was shallow and I had a wader belt on. I'm told I made some interesting noises. I didn't limit out but I got two.