Another said:
I am pretty much pessimistic, actually. I do wish that one day, we all succeed. We want a democratic Hong Kong, but now, I just don't see a way out. Like, it's been three months. We've been trying each and every step. We've broke into the legislative council. We have more than 1,000 people got arrested. But the government is still trying to ignore all of this.... At least the government sees that we are not that-- how do we say-- we are not that obedient. So we have to continuously tell the government that we are not satisfied with what they are giving us. So we have to do it.Still another (translated from Chinese):
I think we're actually lucky because we grew up with people who thought the same way. And we realized that when we turn 50, it's the end of our freedoms. I'm 22 now, and I imagine that when I'm 25, that's really half way until the bomb explodes. And so if we don't do anything, by the time we're 50 years old, it would be awful. I don't want our children to have the same battle. And then when we're 50, we'll look back and think that we didn't do enough. Our birthday is like a countdown to the end. And so more so than other people, I feel like my generation, we have a duty to do more.
Posts
44 comments:
<a href="https://www.wsj.com/articles/all-about-the-money-why-hong-kong-matters-so-much-to-china-11571736607>Maybe this is why the Chinese tanks are not yet running over protestors.</a>
<i>Today, Hong Kong makes up a much smaller part of China’s overall economy than it did 22 years ago. Its role as a gateway, though, remains undiminished, meaning China faces a substantial financial cost for any crackdown.
George Magnus, an economist and the author of “Red Flags: Why Xi’s China Is in Jeopardy,” said Hong Kong stands out from its mainland rivals for its rule of law, competent regulators, low taxes, free movement of capital and use of English.
Neither Shanghai nor China’s free-trade zones “can really compete with what Hong Kong is and does,” he said.</i>
My Hong Kong friend asked for me to pray for her and her family. They know what is coming with time.
Can't Elizabeth Warren or Breadlines Bernie console them by pointing out that freedom is over-rated?
I happened to catch that episode, which was very well done. Weird to hear such pro-freedom programming on NPR.
I suspect that when the Brits gave up Hong Kong they thought communism would wither away in 50 years. Too optimistic, as it turns out.
That second quote hits hard. And it can apply to a lot of things outside Hong Kong.
I fear that these protesters have been heavily influence by Western protests, which are mainly theater, played out before police that are there to protect their right to protest more than anything. This will either peter out or be quickly crushed. But China will not let it pick up steam.
My Hong Kong friend asked for me to pray for her and her family. They know what is coming with time.
I shall pray for them, also, as for all of Hong Kong.
Not all are freedom seeking idealists in the streets.
Ya got your gas bomb and brick throwers also. Stop people from getting to work. Shut down public transport and airport. What, exactly is the goal? Is there a list of demands ?
The masks and black costumesare a nice touch. Less courageous than pussy hat
wearers who did not hide their identity.
Original cause for demonstrations was rescinded weeks ago.
Wonder if other countries look at video of antifa or Occupy Wall Street or anti Trumpers beating supporters and riot and violence and think they are the good guys protesting against evil USA govt?
China, the Big Gulag, is the only place in the world that incarcerates Winnie-the-Pooh for looking like its Jailer.
I understand the pessimism of Hong Kong residents. They know the crackdown is inevitable, and it will be brutal. China knows how valuable Hong Kong is, and what it does for the Chinese economy, but like all good communists they love power and hate freedom more than they care about the money.
NBA ballplayers will not mourn the end of Hong Kong. It will take away a distraction.
I had a crush on a feperson from Taiwan, AKA Republic of China, who was concerned about China's "One China" policy. Maybe you had to be there.
Very moving. Hats off to these brave kids. The Chinese state is the leviathan, an all-seeing and nearly all-powerful one, and our overgrown administrative state looks a little pussycat by comparison.
It may hurt China's immediate economic prospects to cancel Hong Kong, but with people like these, there may be no choice but to brutally bring them into submission. I say this in admiration of the protesters and their indomitable spirit, and in acknowledgment that this kind of thinking is infectious in a way that Chinese authorities deem it necessary to prevent.
Courage is an overused word but these people are truly courageous; doing what they believe is right with substantial risk to themselves.
Hong Kong was created by the British and run by English law. In addition to being a British outpost it also became a haven for Chinese pirates who loved the idea of piracy being considered a crime requiring a trial with witnesses and solid evidence of their guilt to be proven before they could be sentenced and executed.
The imperial Chinese government preferred more direct methods if it could catch the pirates outside of Hong Kong's territorial waters.
The young protesters blame their grandparents for not protesting when the Brits signed Hong Kong over to the Chinese.
The parents regret for falling for China's promises and did not emigrate to save their families.
The grandparents regret for letting politicians decide their fates a long time ago.
I listened to that yesterday. What stood out to me was the commitment to protest in the face of such (apparent) hopelessness. Sometimes it is better to fight the good fight that you know you’ll lose than to just acquiesce. From a practical point of view, even. Change only comes after repeated failure. The successful effort builds on and takes inspiration from all those failures.
I’m in the middle of a fight that I would liken to Hong Kong but on a miniature scale, for lower stakes, in a part of the world that no one will ever give a shit about. It feels pretty hopeless most of the time. But we wouldn’t do what we’re doing now if others hadn’t tried it in the past, and maybe that successful effort ten years from now will look back on our failure for instruction and inspiration.
That said, no protest is without immediate effect. The system always recoils. The trick is being able to make use of it.
Free Hong Kong!
It will happen. But, regrettably, when dealing with entrenched Communists created in the evil image Mao, it will take decades and bloodshed.
The NBA is dead to me. I now have 200 hours to spend on something useful, like educating people how evil Lebron James and Steve Kerr are.
To see evil and do nothing is bad. To support evil is just as evil as the evil ones. Read Churchill's quote about how it is better to die fighting than live as a slave. That said, sometimes you do win. In 1940, England seemed doomed. In 2016 I was sure we were on the path to Venezuela. When I woke to the miracle, I saw the hand of God.
The thing about China is how fragile it is. No one knows their true economic conditions, it is all based on lies. I remember how fast communism faded in eastern Europe. Our election in 2020 will be another pivot point. Which way will we choose. Freedom or slavery & corruption?
big tech/social media doesnt seem too interested in democracy--
govt tweets ok--
Every day I go out and see stuff with my own eyes, and then I go to report it on Twitter and see promoted tweets saying the opposite of what I saw. Twitter is taking money from Chinese propaganda outfits and running these promoted tweets against the top Hong Kong protest hashtags
FullMoon said...
Not all are freedom seeking idealists in the streets.
FM, you're a fine fellow...but when you're wrong, you're wrong.
Huisache, feel free to tell us more.
“ I listened to that yesterday. What stood out to me was the commitment to protest in the face of such (apparent) hopelessness”
Yes, me too. The quotes I chose are about that.
The quote I put in the post title made me cry.
They should have protested against the British. Civil disobedience only works against civil, humane authorities with some level of decency. As the thugs running China have shown, they will simply kill you if you go too far or too long. I'm not optimistic either. I was before Tiananmen Square showed me who the Chinese really are. We must never underestimate their viciousness, or what it might take to defend ourselves against it. We need nuclear weapons for the same reason I need an AR-15 at home. There are some very bad people in this world and some of them will stop at nothing else.
Let's hope they fair better than the Kurds
From what I've read, the Chinese are overwhelmingly anti Hong Kong protests, and thus anti=freedom, and anti-democracy. Education matters, and that's what scares me about our own nation. Like China, young Americans are simply being fed a smorgasbord of lies, anti-American, anti-historic, anti-science, anti-factual bullshit, and they are buying it, and it aint cheap.
"The quote I put in the post title made me cry."
Good.
Now remember that the progs you have been voting for most of your life want not the autonomy you claim to prize but the control the CCP exercises. Apart from a few nice Scandinavians, who themselves stepped back from the anticapitalist brink, the left is all of a piece. Before long, you will have a lot more to cry about, though so far you have managed to stifle your sobs for Christian cake bakers. But then, how oppressive is oppression when it serves an enlightened cause?
Not all are freedom seeking idealists in the streets.
Aug. 12, 2019 at 6:32 pm Updated Aug. 13, 2019 at 5:32 pm
8-10 minutes
HONG KONG (AP) — Frenzied mob violence Tuesday against two men protesters suspected of being spies from mainland China marked the second day of pro-democracy demonstrations that have caused mass cancellations and disruptions in Hong Kong’s busy airport.
Calm eventually returned, with most of the protesters leaving the airport hours after officers armed with pepper spray and swinging batons tried to enter the terminal, fighting with demonstrators who barricaded entrances with luggage carts. Riot police clashed briefly with the demonstrators, who said they planned to return to the airport early Wednesday.
More than 100 flights were cancelled on Tuesday, the fifth consecutive day that protesters occupied the airport. Airlines were still working through a backlog of more than 200 flights from Monday when the airport announced in the afternoon that check-in processes would once again be suspended.
“Democracy is a good thing,” said signs that appeared to be aimed at mainland Chinese and foreign travelers. Many signs also contained apologies for the disruption to travelers: “We stand here to obstruct, only for one single reason. We love and care for Hong Kong. We hope you will understand. Sorry.”
The burst of violence included protesters beating up at least two men they suspected of being undercover agents and came the same day Hong Kong’s pro-Beijing leader warned that the demonstrators had pushed events onto a “path of no return,” highlighting the hardening positions on both sides.
In both instances, angry demonstrators pushed past people trying to hold them back and attacked the men, binding their wrists together and beating them to the ground. The two were eventually taken away by paramedics.
In one case, protesters detained a man they claimed to be an undercover police officer from mainland China, pulled his identity documents from his wallet and encouraged journalists to photograph them. None of them showed that he was a police officer, though protesters claimed to have found his name on an online list of police officers in southern Guangdong province. The Associated Press could not independently verify the man’s identity.
Sally Tong, an 18-year-old protester, said they needed to hold him as evidence that mainland Chinese authorities are in Hong Kong to monitor the demonstrations. Tong said the man was dressed in black and wore a mask to look like one of them.
“We want to keep him here and investigate,” Tong said.
Hours later, the protesters apprehended another man from mainland China. But they could not agree on who they believed he was: Some said he was a gangster, others said he was a fake reporter, and still others said he was masquerading as a protester. As with the first man, some protesters tied his wrists together and poured water over his head, inciting laughter from some in the crowd. Airport security appeared unable to control the crowd.
Hu Xijin, editor-in-chief of the Global Times, a nationalistic Chinese tabloid, said the man was one of his reporters.
“Fu Guohao, reporter of GT website is being seized by demonstrators at HK airport,” Hu wrote on his widely-followed Twitter account. “I affirm this man being tied in this video is the reporter himself. He has no other task except for reporting.”
One protester used a U.S. flag to beat Fu as he lay on the floor in a fetal position. Other protesters and first aid workers attempted to stop some who tried to trample the man, while pro-democracy lawmaker Kwok Ka-ki crouched beside him and tried to calm the attackers. After a heated argument, protesters eventually allowed ambulance workers to take the man away on a stretcher.
Chains can never let them win or the people of the mainland will start demanding freedom too. We've seen how these things can snowball. Of course China has problem with giving them a "taste of grapeshot."
FullMoon said...
Not all are freedom seeking idealists in the streets.
We get it. You're on the other side. That's fine.
It's sad what is happening in Hong Kong. We know how it will play out and there is nothing we can do about it. Like Budapest in 1956 or Prague in 1968.
A friend of mine was the son of Hong Kong well off Chinese parents. He told me, and this was years ago, that all his parents' friends had first class Airline tickets that they renewed each year so that, when the balloon went up, they had existing tickets to get out.
Nichevo said...
FullMoon said...
Not all are freedom seeking idealists in the streets.
We get it. You're on the other side. That's fine.
10/22/19, 8:14 PM
We get it, you believe there are no bad guys among the thousands of protesters. That's fine.
PresbyPoet said...
The NBA is dead to me. I now have 200 hours to spend on something useful, like educating people how evil Lebron James and Steve Kerr are.
I agree 100%.
They are disgusting people and I will heap shame on their fans forever.
Anyone that watches the NBA will receive open condemnation from me.
We get it, you believe there are no bad guys among the thousands of protesters. That's fine.
Why would you harp on that? You think the Chinese are all, oh, we were going to give Hong Kong its freedom, but then those two malcontents acted up so no. Really? Could you be any more of an apparatchik? What are you thinking?
https://aristotlethegeek.wordpress.com/2008/12/31/three-minutes-of-freedom/
In Ayn Rand’s “Return of the Primitive – The Anti-Industrial Revolution”, there is a chapter – “The ‘Inexplicable Personal Alchemy'” (the book is worth its price for this one piece alone) – in which she analyzes one such case from a 1968 NYT article about the trial and sentencing of five young dissidents (two others had been ‘dealt with’ differently – one was spared, the other was sent to a mental hospital) in the then Soviet Union. The dissidents had protested – spoken – in Moscow’s Red Square against the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia, but they were tried, and sentenced – not for dissent – but for having obstructed “pedestrian traffic.” During the proceedings each of them had something to say to the judge; one of them – twenty three year old Vadim Delone, a student and a poet, said this – “For three minutes on Red Square I felt free. I am glad to take your three years for that.”
The NYT journalist who covered the trial and a small protest by other dissidents in front of the courthouse – Henry Kamm – couldn’t understand how these youngsters could do such a thing – gather the courage to protest in a “politically inert nation”. He wrote-
The average citizen had no idea that five men and two women had denounced their country’s aggression and were being tried consequently on a charge of obstructing pedestrian traffic on the empty vastness of Red Square.
The only ones who knew were those who had been sent to the dingy street to pose as ordinary Communist youths or workers. Their mission was to observe and photograph the few who, through an inexplicable personal alchemy, have thrown off the leading conformity of the only society they have known and are condemned to be its outcasts.
Rand praises Kamm’s story and calls it a “remarkable example of journalism”. And then she explains what lies behind the “inexplicable personal alchemy”-
There is a fundamental conviction which some people never acquire, some hold only in their youth, and a few hold to the end of their days—the conviction that ideas matter. In one’s youth that conviction is experienced as a self-evident absolute, and one is unable to fully believe that there are people who do not share it. That ideas matter means that knowledge matters, that truth matters, that one’s mind matters. And the radiance of that certainty, in the process of growing up, is the best aspect of youth.
Its consequence is the inability to believe in the power or the triumph of evil. No matter what corruption one observes in one’s immediate background, one is unable to accept it as normal, permanent or metaphysically right. One feels: “This injustice (or terror or falsehood or frustration or pain or agony) is the exception in life, not the rule.” One feels certain that somewhere on earth—even if not anywhere in one’s surroundings or within one’s reach—a proper, human way of life is possible to human beings, and justice matters. It takes years, if ever, to accept the notion that one lives among the not-fully-human; it is impossible to accept that notion in one’s youth. And if justice matters, then one fights for it; one speaks out—in the unnamed certainty that someone, somewhere will understand.
It is not the particular context of a young person’s ideas that is of primary importance in this issue, but his attitude toward ideas as such. The best way to describe it would be to say that he takes ideas seriously—except that “serious” is too unserious a word in this context; he takes ideas with the most profound, solemn and passionate earnestness. (Granted this attitude, his mind is always open to correct his ideas, if they are wrong or false; but nothing on earth can take precedence for him over the truth of an idea.)
This is the “inexplicable personal alchemy” that puzzled Henry Kamm: an independent mind dedicated to the supremacy of ideas, i.e., of truth.
https://aristotlethegeek.wordpress.com/2008/12/31/three-minutes-of-freedom/
By the way Ayn Rand was 28 when her novel "We The Living" was published in Britain.
1933.
Rejected by US publishers. USA intelligentsia in love affair with USSR.
They would be dead, if this were Progressive America as they would be called Nazi's and it's okay to beat up Nazi's.
Why would you harp on that? You think the Chinese are all, oh, we were going to give Hong Kong its freedom, but then those two malcontents acted up so no. Really? Could you be any more of an apparatchik? What are you thinking?
10/22/19, 10:00 PM
Harp on what? Oh, we get it. Your lack of imagination prevents you from understanding my original point. That's ok. Kind of charming, in a way.
Concerning those two guys mentioned, what are you thinking about the protesters beating them? And, for simplicity, let's pretend that is the only violence, vandalism or destruction to have occurred. Andy Ngo comes to mind.
Elderly woman vents frustration at Hong Kong protesters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPYuGYLesx0
Make yourself a nice cocktail, sit back, imagine it is your daughter, son, grandchildren, or God forbid, you, surrounded and trapped by the protesters.
It's easy if you try..
I Have A Baby Woman Screams At Hong Kong Airport Plus Woman in Red making her way Through https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNxqyUmykzk
Foreign visitors: we just want to go home, you mob give us so much pressure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgItY-RbLPk
Who is stealing people's freedom at Hong Kong Airport? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NkewfURHnI
Hu Xijin, editor-in-chief of the Global Times, a nationalistic Chinese tabloid, said the man was one of his reporters.
“Fu Guohao, reporter of GT website is being seized by demonstrators at HK airport,” Hu wrote on his widely-followed Twitter account. “I affirm this man being tied in this video is the reporter himself. He has no other task except for reporting.”
I hope he smiled when he said it.
From Haaretz:
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-a-million-people-are-jailed-at-china-s-gulags-i-escaped-here-s-what-goes-on-inside-1.7994216
A million people are jailed at China's gulags. I escaped. Here's what really goes on inside
6 days ago · Rape, torture and human experiments. ... have been incarcerated in camps during Beijing's campaign of oppression. ... Sauytbay had to teach the prisoners – who were Uyghur or Kazakh speakers ...
I'm sorry, you were saying, somebody missed their flight? Please continue.
A million people are jailed at China's gulags. I escaped. Here's what really goes on inside
6 days ago · Rape, torture and human experiments. ... have been incarcerated in camps during Beijing's campaign of oppression. ... Sauytbay had to teach the prisoners – who were Uyghur or Kazakh speakers ...
Huh? That has something to do with my original statement, which you disagreed with, that there are bad actors in with the legitimate protesters? That there is violence and destruction during the protests.?
We guess so, if you say so. No antifa types involved, if you say so. We understand. It's fine. Please continue in your steadfast support of violence and destruction. And, por favour, provide a synopsis of the demands.
Shirley Xiao
Shirley Xiao
1 month ago
Hmm... It's hard to watch this video because you told so many points without full comprehensive about the issues between China and the US. Let me be clear here, I'm not from Mainland China, I'm not from HK, but I'm a Chinese with many family members in HK and Mainland China. You don't understand why your post made your Chinese people hate you, but you never really understand what it is like to have your country being divided by another nation.
Let me give you an example, let's say this protest was happening in SF, they want to be an independent country, not being a part of US anymore. They held massive protests, burnt down US flags and waving China's flag, will the US just stand still and give the SF their independence? I think not.
And with China's flag being waved around the protest, what will you think as US citizen? You will think China has a part of this protest, regardless it is true or not.
And then, you imagine your family member in China posting a post about SF and saying how beautiful it is. With the relation that China is behind the protest, the post from that Chinese person will be interpreted as they support SF to be independent, even though it didn't have that intention.
It's a delicate time, you have to tread carefully since you are a US citizen.
By now, maybe you think I'm a busybody who doesn't understand anything. But just as you know, my country has already experienced several times an independence riot like this. You maybe say it's for democracy, but just think if it's happened in the US like my example. Will you still say it's a democracy? Or will you say it's a divide attempt of your unity of nations?
When the first protest was held in HK, I was in full support for them. But by now, I have little to none sympathy for them. It's already becoming riots, not a protest anymore. They disrupt transportation and economy in HK. I really hope it will end soon, either they stop it or waiting for Mainland's military troops to enter HK.
PS : Thank you for people who read this very long comment. Wow, I never commented this long on any video before..
Post a Comment