Althouse: "I know this sounds naïve... I didn’t think the left was so mean. I didn’t think the left lied like this."

September 5, 2019

"I know this sounds naïve... I didn’t think the left was so mean. I didn’t think the left lied like this."

Said Marianne Williamson (in a New Yorker interview).

I have not listened to the audio yet, but according to the summary at the link, she's talking about accusations that she's an anti-vaxxer and uses crystals and that sort of thing.

Of course, this is intensifying the right's very special love for Marianne. Breitbart's article on this topic has over 6,000 comments. The highest rated comment is: "The democrat party is in very deep trouble, because Marianne Williamson sounds much saner than the rest of the candidates....and Marianne Williamson is certifiably crazy." (The comments are threaded at Breitbart, so it's almost impossible to get to the second-highest-comment. Everyone seems to be jumping the time line by replying to the top-rated comment. Very boring!)

I'm glad to have a use for my old tag "meanies."

122 comments:

rhhardin said...: I doubt she noticed that the left is lying about Trump.; 9/5/19, 8:09 AM
Chuck said...: I agree that her past statements on vaccines make Marianne Williamson completely dubious if not certifiably crazy.

So then what about Trump?; 9/5/19, 8:11 AM
Kevin said...: The left is anti-free speech.

The lying, smears and personal attacks come from that.; 9/5/19, 8:13 AM
tim in vermont said...: Once on British TV I saw an interview with the lady who played Louise in the Harry and Louise ads against Hillarycare. She described how Hillary’s people threatened her, told her that they had friends in Hollywood (Harvey Weinstein, I am thinking now) and could make it very good for her career, or very bad. Her quote was “I thought that this was the kind of stuff Republicans did, not Democrats!”

Trump is the Democrats’ punishment for enabling that pair.; 9/5/19, 8:13 AM
wendybar said...: She's NOT wrong. I'm glad she realized it and spoke up!; 9/5/19, 8:19 AM
Bay Area Guy said...: "I know this sounds naïve... I didn’t think the left was so mean. I didn’t think the left lied like this."

Heh - a liberal mugged by reality. The Left actively tries to get people fired from their jobs, who disagree with them or hold politically incorrect views.

That's how they roll.; 9/5/19, 8:22 AM
Fen said...: her past statements on vaccines make Marianne Williamson completely dubious if not certifiably crazy.

I don't fault them for this. I lean towards "vacs do NOT cause autism", but when you are a parent and you see with your own eyes that your kid was normal the day before his vaccine and listless forever after, it's not unreasonable of them to be anti-vax.

The demonization of them does raise my eyebrows. It's the same attempt to discredit that we've seen launched at Climate Skeptics, likening them to holocaust deniers.

Quite honestly, it would not surprise me if in 5-10 years we get a study saying "evidence that in 3-5% of the population blah blah risk of certain vaccines blah blah blah having an effect on nervous system blah resembling symptoms of autism blah"

I haven't dug deep into the issue, and I am not a medial expert, so I (tentatively) trust the experts on this. But I think it's cruel to be unsympathetic to these people.; 9/5/19, 8:26 AM
Fen said...: Chuck: So then what about Trump?

Stop trying to make fetch happen.; 9/5/19, 8:28 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: It's intensifying what we know is true about the left.

THEY LIE. Constantly.; 9/5/19, 8:33 AM
Tank said...: Prager: "Truth is not a left wing value."

Marianne has noticed.

I thought this was the kind of thing she was supposed to be good at.; 9/5/19, 8:36 AM
tim maguire said...: Bay Area Guy said...mugged by reality.

Well put. She does sound naive, but no more naive than most liberals. At least she is open to new information, which means she can't continue to be a liberal. These days, embracing liberal values is simply not a good enough reason to identify with liberals.

On nesting of comments--it works best in comment sections of moderate length because it makes it easy to see what is in response to what. In short comment threads, it's unnecessary, but in too long comment threads, it creates a huge incentive to reply to the top rated comment rather than posting as a new comment.; 9/5/19, 8:36 AM
tim in vermont said...: "you see with your own eyes that your kid was normal the day before his vaccine and listless forever after, it's not unreasonable of them to be anti-vax.”

I admit I know a girl who was a nurse and was a beautiful sprite of a girl, fit, happy, and had a vaccination that was required by her job and has not been the same person since. It’s hard to rule out a “to the day” coincidence like that, but like BMI, you have to look at vaccinations for their affects on the population as a whole. When I was a kid, there was still some polio around. Still some kids whose parents didn’t get them vaccinated. It was pretty sad too. Medicine is almost always compromise aimed at the best “possible” outcome.; 9/5/19, 8:38 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Any lie that gives the left power, the will baby-talk it, they will Blasey-Ford it, they will STrozk it, they will AOC it, they will Weinstein it, they will private server it.

Count on it.; 9/5/19, 8:38 AM
TrespassersW said...: Yeah, that doesn't just sound naïve. That IS naïve.

Who they are and what they do has been evident for years. (Just a sample: every Republican president or presidential candidate in my lifetime has been likened to Hitler or worse.) You're just now noticing the lies and the hatred?; 9/5/19, 8:39 AM
Howard said...: Apparently Marianne never worn big-boy pants. Goops; 9/5/19, 8:39 AM
tim maguire said...: Fen said...when you are a parent and you see with your own eyes that your kid was normal the day before his vaccine and listless forever after, it's not unreasonable of them to be anti-vax.

Also in defense of irrational parents, if you do not vaccinate your child and your child gets sick, you did not give your child the illness. It's bad, but it's in the range of life's tragedies. But if you vaccinate your child and your child gets autism from the vaccination, then your child's ruined future is the result of something you did to them. You gave them autism.

This may not make strictly rational sense, but when you are in the decision stage and the condition the vaccine is preventing is every bit as remote and theoretical as the condition your worry the vaccine may cause, it carries a heavy weight.; 9/5/19, 8:41 AM
Peter said...: I have a couple of longstanding leftist friends with whom I've enjoyed years of raucous political arguments. Great fun, and occasionally we give one another pause about some of our respective beliefs. But one thing I gave up trying to challenge years ago is their unshakable conviction that progressives are just nicer, nobler people and that there is no need to fear their intrusive, controlling policies because they will be implemented by well-meaning people of good faith. They are all a bit like fundamentalist Christians whose faith is shaken to the core when their pastor is caught with his pants down in some seedy motel.; 9/5/19, 8:49 AM
robother said...: Not just meanies, Ann--she's talking about Blue Meanies.; 9/5/19, 8:51 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Elizabeth Warren called the cop that was forced to shoot Michael Brown in self defense - a murderer. LIE; 9/5/19, 8:52 AM
Michael K said...: I admit I know a girl who was a nurse and was a beautiful sprite of a girl, fit, happy, and had a vaccination that was required by her job and has not been the same person since.

I did too. She had a routine tetanus toxoid shot after some needle stick or something like that. She developed a condition in that arm called Causalgia, or reflex sympathetic dystrophy and was never the same. She was a very pretty woman married to an OR tech. It changed her life.

Millions get tetanus shots and they stopped tetanus min WWII that had killed thousands in WWI. No explanation why she had the rare reaction.

Nothing to do with autism.; 9/5/19, 8:53 AM
0_0 said...: Nobody has EVER been able to show that a vaccine caused autism in anyone.

Vaccines and the preservatives change. Somehow this makes no difference.

I can be sympathetic, but anti-vaxxers and those who believe in the link are fools.; 9/5/19, 8:57 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Perhaps Maryanne will put on her big boy pants and do the right thing.

#WalkAway

Like this guy

If you Walk Away from the mob, there is a price to pay.; 9/5/19, 8:57 AM
Hagar said...: Marianne Williamson is not any crazier than the rest of them and she is a much nicer person - better looking too.; 9/5/19, 8:59 AM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: "I know this sounds naïve... I didn’t think the left was so mean. I didn’t think the left lied like this."

Ah, so crazy and stupid? Sorry, but I’ve never had any respect at all for people who refuse to see what they could not possibly avoid seeing.; 9/5/19, 9:03 AM
JPS said...: Hagar, 8:59:

"Marianne Williamson is not any crazier than the rest of them and she is a much nicer person."

Right. I have no special love for her - I just appreciate that she doesn't seem to actively hate people for disagreeing with her. Too bad this is an increasingly noteworthy quality in politics and policy.; 9/5/19, 9:04 AM
Fen said...: Nobody has EVER been able to show that a vaccine caused autism in anyone.

How would you show it? Parents don't set up for vaccines with "let's take a video of little Katie before and after, just in case it makes her autistic".

We have a good friend in Dallas, for about 10 years she had some condition she couldn't cure. Very wealthy parents, so she flying all over the country to be seen by the top experts. Everyone told her it was all in her head. Then two years ago some obsessive-compulsive Doc found a small tumor in her brain that all the experts had missed. She had it removed and her symptoms are all gone, she is living a normal life.

That's why I think about when the experts talk about proof.

I can be sympathetic, but anti-vaxxers and those who believe in the link are fools.

We are all fools about something.; 9/5/19, 9:08 AM
dreams said...: I don't have any love for the liberal looney tunes "love is all we need" want to be hippie.; 9/5/19, 9:11 AM
gilbar said...: i don't have kids, and I'VE had all my shots, so this is all a moot point to me; but

a) having A LOT of vaccinations at the same time HAS TO be be harder on you than having them spread out (like they used to do). Of course, spreading them out makes more work for the health center, if not the doctor

b) AS LONG AS MOST OTHER KIDS are getting their vaccinations, there is little reason for YOUR kid to get them. If (IF!) there is Any risk to the Vaccinations, and Little to NO benefit; it's hard to say that the Rational choice wouldn't be to skip them.

c) Vaccinations are like voting; Your Vote won't make a difference. Your societies Vote makes ALL The Difference; 9/5/19, 9:12 AM
Big Mike said...: A statistic I'd like to know: how many kids were not vaccinated but became autistic anyway?

The symptoms of autism show up at about the same age as children are vaccinated. Correlation is not causation.; 9/5/19, 9:13 AM
Nonapod said...: In politics being mean is a feature, not a bug. If you're seeking power, you have to be able to endure the slings and arrows of all the other people who are also seeking power. It might be a silly way to choose a leader, but given all the possible other alternatives, maybe not.

For example, in his ascendency to the highest position of power in China, Xi Jinping only had to be concerned with a few thousand or so people in the upper echelons of the Chinese communist party rather than the opnions of the greater populace. Although, given that his father was branded as an enemy of the revolution I guess he had a lot to prove.; 9/5/19, 9:14 AM
traditionalguy said...: Marianne sees a spiritual realm, but only as an add on to reality. She is astounded to learn that The Global Propaganda Narrative requires a total Reality replacement.Adding on a spirit realm's messages is not where Propaganda is at.; 9/5/19, 9:14 AM
Big Mike said...: And last night I welcomed Marianne to the real world. I don't suppose she enjoys living in it, but it's the only world we have -- and it's real.; 9/5/19, 9:15 AM
Darrell said...: Yeah. Nobody has heard of the saying "Lyin' Left."
Nobody.; 9/5/19, 9:15 AM
Ralph L said...: I was about to bring up gilbar's A. They also get a lot more vaccines than we did.

I'm not sure that B applies to polio.; 9/5/19, 9:18 AM
Original Mike said...: "“I know this sounds naïve,” she complains, but “I didn’t think the left was so mean. I didn’t think the left lied like this.”"

The constant media barrage, both overt and subtle, that the right is vile and the left is righteous is very powerful. I have intelligent, apolitical friends who accept this as a matter of course because they hear it everyday. It's amazing any conservative at all ever gets elected in this country.; 9/5/19, 9:19 AM
joshbraid said...: "you see with your own eyes that your kid was normal the day before his vaccine and listless forever after, it's not unreasonable of them to be anti-vax.”
I watched my six-month-old change dramatically after his vaccinations. He showed lots of autistic signs for years (yes, I am a therapist and able to diagnose). Fortunately, we were able to find a doctor who lowered his "titers" when he was a teenager and that helped.

I really worry about vaccinations for teenie-weenies. Yes, mercury is still used as a preservative, the last I looked. And, you'll notice that the people making the money from vaccinations are legally protected against the damages caused by their products. Yes, there are questions about efficacy.

Look, it's a good idea to vaccinate for measles, polio, that sort of thing. However, there is always a risk to the individual and I have questions about the age of reception. I'd also like to see more independent research.; 9/5/19, 9:24 AM
PB said...: She's very child-like, do it's not surprising that reality shocks her.; 9/5/19, 9:27 AM
bagoh20 said...: Telling me you're bored is boring and intellectual virtue signaling.; 9/5/19, 9:28 AM
Fen said...: I watched my six-month-old change dramatically after his vaccinations...Look, it's a good idea to vaccinate for measles, polio, that sort of thing. However, there is always a risk to the individual and I have questions about the age of reception. I'd also like to see more independent research.

To be honest, if we still had kids, I don't think I would do the vacs. Not until they were older. I've had a few instances where I didn't follow the pack and was thankful after.; 9/5/19, 9:28 AM
Fen said...: Telling me you're bored is boring and intellectual virtue signaling.

Hehe. The most spoiled creatures on the planet are American Women.

They are bored! Entertain them! NOW!; 9/5/19, 9:29 AM
Fernandinande said...: National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program

+

So what outrageous thing did Williamson supposedly say about vaccines?

When she was mentioned in this blog a while back the only actual quote of hers that I could find (the MSM distortions don't count) was that the gov't shouldn't force people to get vaccinated.

That's hardly outrageous; to me it's not even slightly controversial.; 9/5/19, 9:29 AM
gspencer said...: “I didn’t think the left was so mean. I didn’t think the left lied like this.”

Sing along (Susie = Democrats, the party of the KKK),

If you knew Susie, like we know Susie
Oh! Oh! Oh! What a girl
There's none so classy
As this fair lassie
Oh! Oh! Holy Moses, what a chassis
We went riding, she didn't balk
Back from Yonkers
I'm the one that had to walk
If you knew Susie, like we know Susie
Oh! Oh! What a girl!; 9/5/19, 9:31 AM
Francisco D said...: "I know this sounds naïve... I didn’t think the left was so mean. I didn’t think the left lied like this."

Apparently she never watched the Kavanaugh hearings...

or the Thomas hearings ...

or ...; 9/5/19, 9:33 AM
Dave Begley said...: Politics ain't beanbag.; 9/5/19, 9:36 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Not naive - clueless.; 9/5/19, 9:37 AM
stevew said...: First Whoopi Goldberg speaks up and out about Democrat supporters creating blacklists of conservatives, now Marianne Williamson says out loud that Democrats are mean spirited and liars. What the heck is going on?

Biden's got a bloody eye, Warren calls for banning bump-stocks even though they already are so, and Harris accuses the United States of bringing slavery to the country 400 years ago. Espousing anti-vax opinions and possibly using crystals (for whatever) seems almost sane.; 9/5/19, 9:38 AM
Anonymous said...: Quite honestly, it would not surprise me if in 5-10 years we get a study saying "evidence that in 3-5% of the population blah blah risk of certain vaccines blah blah blah having an effect on nervous system blah resembling symptoms of autism blah"

With any vaccine, there is always some percentage of the population that is going to have bad reactions, even fatal ones. The "greater good" rationale for accepting this risk is better understood when serious diseases aren't as well-controlled, and their dreadful consequences in everyone's face, everyday. I doubt people who don't vaccinate think of themselves as free-riders, unloading the risk on to other people's children while being protected themselves by herd immunity. Perhaps free-riders are also less able to go "under the radar" in more culturally cohesive societies.

That said, people have legitimate concerns about "too many, too close together" vaccine regimens, or having new vaccines aggressively pushed on parents. (I recall rather obnoxious attempts to strong-arm me re the - brand new, expensive - papilloma virus vaccine for middle-schooler.); 9/5/19, 9:38 AM
J. Farmer said...: Marianne Williamson is a great marketer. New Age woo just happens to be the product. She's the same kind of woman who does very well selling Mary Kay products. In that way, she is quite similar to Trump. But Williamson lives in the same world as Pauline Kael, who only knew one person who voted for Nixon (the source of the apocryphal quote). Very insular people who nonetheless pride themselves on their open mindedness.; 9/5/19, 9:40 AM
Bay Area Guy said...: Marianne Williamson is a great marketer. New Age woo just happens to be the product.

Please don't infuse negative energy to her gnostic harmony.; 9/5/19, 9:42 AM
tim in vermont said...: "Apparently Marianne never worn big-boy pants.”

That’s what we did, we call ‘em Trump.; 9/5/19, 9:43 AM
Karen of Texas said...: If you want a good dose of the "vaccine wars" and what's at stake, google - better yet duck duck go or an alternative - Senator (Doctor) Richard Pan, California, vaccine laws.; 9/5/19, 9:44 AM
Anonymous said...: And btw, nobody who perpetrates noxious shite like "white apology prayers", or only notices that jackals are jackals when they turn on *her*, gets a pass for "nice".

I agree that she was entertaining, and probably the least insane of the Dem candidates.; 9/5/19, 9:47 AM
FrankiM said...: You want her? You can have her.; 9/5/19, 9:54 AM
SeanF said...: Althouse: Of course, this is intensifying the right's very special love for Marianne.

Can you define this "very special love" that "the right" supposedly has for Williamson? I have no doubt the right is glad that Williamson is a Democrat and in the primary because she makes the Democrats look bad, but that doesn't seem like "love" to me.

The highest rated comment on that article, as you yourself quoted, says "Marianne Williamson is certifiably crazy." That doesn't sound like "love", either.; 9/5/19, 9:54 AM
mikee said...: Nice crazy is indeed preferable to mean crazy, but crazy is still crazy, and that is what the Dems are, crazy.; 9/5/19, 9:54 AM
Original Mike said...: "Politics ain't beanbag."

There's a difference between being aggressive and being dishonest.; 9/5/19, 9:55 AM
Mr. Forward said...: Sea mammals need that extra layer of fat.; 9/5/19, 9:55 AM
chuck said...: Marianne says what she thinks. She may be crazy, but hey, honesty is a rare quality in someone running for office. Trump has some of that too.; 9/5/19, 9:59 AM
rhhardin said...: I notice Endeavour (TV detective series) has Tarot cards which are usually significant. Probably they only broadcast the cards that work out, though.

Hard to explain otherwise.; 9/5/19, 9:59 AM
Mark said...: Vaccines back in the day were no problem.

Pharmaceuticals today are questionable. Ever-changing, ever-newer medications when the older ones pass their patent and become generic are a problem.

I'm no longer a skeptic of the skeptics after developing peripheral neuropathy and degeneration of my Achilles tendon after taking two -- TWO -- levofloxacin antibiotic tablets (in the same family as Cipro). Still recovering a year and a half later, following several weeks in a boot and walking like an old man and spending a lot of time on the couch with my leg up last year.

I'm no longer a skeptic of the skeptics after recently starting on statins for nominal high cholesterol and after a week started feeling a recurrence of sharpness in my tendon that had gone away months earlier. So again I'm reduced mobility. Apparently it too interferes with body chemistry and cell regeneration.

Just say "no" to drugs.; 9/5/19, 10:03 AM
Mark said...: Oh -- and FDA is a useless piece of crap agency.; 9/5/19, 10:04 AM
Mark said...: No explanation why she had the rare reaction.

Doctors and big med and the "experts" would basically have people believe that "rare" means "never" and "perfectly safe."

If fact, rare often means tens of thousands of people. And when it happens to you, it ain't rare.; 9/5/19, 10:08 AM
Nonapod said...: I have no doubt the right is glad that Williamson is a Democrat and in the primary because she makes the Democrats look bad, but that doesn't seem like "love" to me.

Maybe "love" is the exactly correct word. But I think there's a real difference in the way people on the Right respond to Williamson as opposed to the rest of the current pack of Dem candidates. To many people on the Right, the rest of the pack seems like a collection of severe scolds and destructive lunatics who wallow in negativism. They're endlessly pointing out all of the flaws with America, with race relations, our all our climate sins. And then proposing heavy handed solutions that at best seem unrealistically fantastical.

Williamson stands out to people on the Right simply because she doesn't seem to wallow in negativism as much as the rest. Sure, everyone on the Right generally agrees that her New Agey proclamations are silly and feckless, but her presentation seems much more positive in stark contrast to the rest.; 9/5/19, 10:08 AM
Mike Sylwester said...: A few weeks ago, The Wall Street Journal published a letter-to-the-editor from some biologist. I don't remember his exact specialty, but it was relevant to the vaccine issue.

He said that there are some disorders that are basically genetic but are triggered by various environmental stimuli. It seems that autism might be such a disorder.

Some cases of autism might be triggered by a vaccination. However, if the vaccination had not happened, the autism might nevertheless have been been triggered by some other environmental stimulation anyway.

Therefore, a parent might feel sure, correctly, that his child's autism was triggered by a vaccination. If the child had not been vaccinated, however, autism might have been triggered by a childhood infection. The child was likely, because of his genes, to become autistic from some environmental stimulus in childhood.

A causation of this kind is difficult to determine from statistical correlations of autism and vaccination.; 9/5/19, 10:12 AM
Vance said...: Notice how only one person here is trying to claim Trump is worse than Marianne? Notice how only one person, on a post about crazy Democrats, is trying to turn the subject to Trump? The "Life long Conservative," naturally.

I would wager that if our hostess ran a post on Ted Kennedy and Chappaquidick, coupled with Kennedy's real treason with Russia, we would have that same "Life Long republican" trying to claim Trump is worse. Because that's what all Republicans do: immediate smear their current Republican President as worse than Ted Kennedy.

As for Williamson, She's ye olde hippie, confused and generally wacko, but not out to hurt anyone, unlike the rest of the crowd. When the aide bursts into the Oval Office and says, "Madame presidente, we need to imprison all gun owners in happy fun joy camps for the rest of their miserable lives!" Williamson would be like, "Why? That seems mean, why punish them?" The rest of the field would be like "Great idea! Can we melt down their teeth after they go through the showers?" And certain posters here (not just LLR's,) would be lining up to be employees of the camps.; 9/5/19, 10:16 AM
tim in vermont said...: All of the real life autism I have seen, there is a precursor odd duck uncle, or maybe some signs in the dad. My daughter works professionally with such children and she tells me I am nuts.; 9/5/19, 10:17 AM
Ice Nine said...: >>Blogger Mark said...
I'm no longer a skeptic of the skeptics after developing peripheral neuropathy and degeneration of my Achilles tendon after taking two -- TWO -- levofloxacin antibiotic tablets<<

Big deal. No one is skeptical of the risk of peripheral neuropathy or Achilles tendonitis with Levofloxacin. Those are both well-known and extensively caveated side effects of that drug.; 9/5/19, 10:18 AM
Just asking said...: I don't know if the right loves Marianne so much as Trump voters see someone who also says what she thinks. Her fandom consists of people-who-are-tired-of-politicians-who-sound-like-politicians.

We don't agree with her, but it's nice to hear someone who couldn't just be replaced with a bot that just gives canned statements like so many politicians do.; 9/5/19, 10:18 AM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: she's not a vicious Lefty,
but that she still thinks "We're Good, you guys are Bad"
means her love is tainted

#TaintedLove; 9/5/19, 10:18 AM
Karen of Texas said...: @Mark, being as Cipro is in the class of fluoroquinolones, you're lucky you're actually recovering. Fluoroquinolones are devastating peoples' lives.

Nonapod is right. If nothing else, MW is a breath of fresh air from the constant haranguing and doom and gloom crowd.; 9/5/19, 10:23 AM
Bay Area Guy said...: I don't know if the right loves Marianne so much as Trump voters see someone who also says what she thinks.

Yeah, I generally buy this. I don't particularly love MW, but I do think (as noted above thread) that she is the LEAST insane of the Democrat lot.

I would add that she is the LEAST dangerous too, because she's not a professional political leftist who craves power and control. She seems like a harmless, new age goofball.

Maybe, that would change if she became President. Not likely she will.; 9/5/19, 10:25 AM
eric said...: I'm surprised anyone going into politics wouldn't realize how tough a "sport" it is. Mugged by reality, poor lady.

Quite honestly, it would not surprise me if in 5-10 years we get a study saying "evidence that in 3-5% of the population blah blah risk of certain vaccines blah blah blah having an effect on nervous system blah resembling symptoms of autism blah"

This has already happened. I'd link to The Hill article written by Sharyl Attkisson but I don't know how to hyper link. I suppose you could Google. Here's a snippet:

Dr. Zimmerman now has signed a bombshell sworn affidavit. He says that, during a group of 5,000 vaccine-autism cases being heard in court on June 15, 2007, he took aside the Department of Justice (DOJ) lawyers he worked for defending vaccines and told them he'd discovered "exceptions in which vaccinations could cause autism."

We tried really hard to have our shots spread out over a long period of time. We also refused certain vaccinations we didn't think our infant daughter needed because we didn't think she would be sexually active.

Even trying to have them spread out gets you dirty looks and anti vaxxer accusations. The more people yell and try to shut down debate on vaccinations the more skeptical I become.; 9/5/19, 10:34 AM
Bob Boyd said...: "I didn’t think the left was so mean. I didn’t think the left lied like this."

Disqualifying. Goes to judgement.; 9/5/19, 10:37 AM
Nonapod said...: I'd link to The Hill article written by Sharyl Attkisson but I don't know how to hyper link. I suppose you could Google.

<a href="url goes here">some text goes here</a>

So if you wanted to link that article, the code would be this:

<a href="https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/425061-how-a-pro-vaccine-doctor-reopened-debate-about-link-to-autism">The Hill article written by Sharyl Attkisson</a>

and it would come out the other side like this:

The Hill article written by Sharyl Attkisson; 9/5/19, 10:44 AM
Sam L. said...: She wasn't paying attention.; 9/5/19, 10:44 AM
Fen said...: The more people yell and try to shut down debate on vaccinations the more skeptical I become.

And the lack of certainty. Just a quick google found:

"Research suggests that autism develops from a combination of genetic and nongenetic, or environmental, influences."

"Most experts agree that there is no cure for autism. That’s why many of them approach ASD in a way that looks at the management of symptoms - "

ie, "we aren't sure what causes it, we have no idea how to cure it, but we KNOW that it is not related to vaccinations"....uh sure okay.; 9/5/19, 10:51 AM
eric said...: Thanks Nonapod.; 9/5/19, 10:52 AM
Mark said...: Those are both well-known and extensively caveated side effects of that drug.

You're right. There are big warning labels. Right before the language about "rare" side effects and language about your doctor believing that the benefit outweighs the risk.

And if you are dumb enough ass to believe your doctor and are idiot enough to think that the government would ban something if it was poison, then to hell with the people that actually take that poison.; 9/5/19, 11:04 AM
tim maguire said...: Peter said...one thing I gave up trying to challenge years ago is their unshakable conviction that progressives are just nicer, nobler people

"we're the good guys" is the core lie liberals tell themselves to justify their otherwise barbaric political and social views.

Or, as some wise person once put it, liberals are people who think that, having put an X next to "brotherhood of man" on the checklist of life, they are thereafter free to be the biggest assholes they want to be.; 9/5/19, 11:05 AM
Fen said...: Thanks Eric and Nonapod

Dr. Zimmerman goes on to say that once the DOJ lawyers learned of his position, they quickly fired him as an expert witness and kept his opinion secret from other parents and the rest of the public.

What’s worse, he says the DOJ went on to misrepresent his opinion in federal vaccine court to continue to debunk vaccine-autism claims.

Records show that on June 18, 2007, a DOJ attorney to whom Dr. Zimmerman spoke told the vaccine court: “We know [Dr. Zimmerman’s] views on the issue. ... There is no scientific basis for a connection” between vaccines and autism.

I was tempted to throw in government corruption as a reason to be suspicious, but I felt that might discredit my more salient points. Boy did I call that one wrong.; 9/5/19, 11:06 AM
RobinGoodfellow said...: Welcome to the party, pal!; 9/5/19, 11:06 AM
Drago said...: Speaking of insanity, LLR Chuck approved Creepy Joe Biden just fully endorsed the new green deal.

So, you know, communism.

LOL

Poor LLR Chuck. What will he do now?; 9/5/19, 11:06 AM
Drago said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/5/19, 11:09 AM
Drago said...: BTW, LLR Chuck approved Liz Warren is saying we only have 11 years left to exist.

So, uh, what were we talking about again?....; 9/5/19, 11:09 AM
Michael K said...: One of my students was interested in pediatric neurology. I gave her a stack of reprints on autism. I hope she pursued the subject

Those who wonder about autism and possible treatment, read about Prairie voles and autism.

And more about them.

Researchers at the Center for Translational Social Neuroscience (CTSN) at Emory University are focusing on prairie voles as a new model to screen the effectiveness of drugs to treat autism.

They are starting with D-cycloserine, a drug Emory researchers have shown enhances behavioral therapy for phobias and also promotes pair bonding among prairie voles. Giving female voles D-cycloserine, which is thought to facilitate learning and memory, can encourage them to bond with a new male more quickly than usual.

A young woman with aspergers, an ASD condition was successfully treated with oxytocin. Nasal spray was used to administer.; 9/5/19, 11:10 AM
Mark said...: being as Cipro is in the class of fluoroquinolones, you're lucky you're actually recovering

I'll probably always be at risk of rupture.

Meanwhile, a co-worker of a friend who worked in the Senate during the anthrax scare years ago was, like all the staff, was given Cipro "just in case." He ended up in a wheelchair.

And that poison is still legal, still on the market.; 9/5/19, 11:11 AM
tim maguire said...: The biggest reason can be a superficial correlation between a vaccination and the appearance of autism symptoms is that the symptoms of autism typically show up around the age when kids are getting vaccines. It is a statistical certainty that some autistic children will have had a vaccination shortly before their symptoms appeared.

How do we prove that vaccines do or don't cause autism? Population statistics. The rate of vaccination does not correlate with the rate of autism. That is, if you take a million kids who have been vaccinated and a million kids who have not, the 2 groups will have the same rate of autism.; 9/5/19, 11:20 AM
Sebastian said...: "Marianne Williamson is certifiably crazy"

Yup, that's how we righties express our "very special love."; 9/5/19, 11:23 AM
eric said...: A young woman with aspergers, an ASD condition was successfully treated with oxytocin. Nasal spray was used to administer

Man would I love for their to be some kind of cure for autism.

My son has gotten so bad over the last two years I don't even recognize him anymore.; 9/5/19, 11:25 AM
Ice Nine said...: Blogger Mark said...
>>Those are both well-known and extensively caveated side effects of that drug.<<

>You're right. There are big warning labels. Right before the language about "rare" side effects and language about your doctor believing that the benefit outweighs the risk.
And if you are dumb enough ass to believe your doctor<

What I'm not is "dumb enough ass" to read big warning labels on Levofloxacin about peripheral neuropathy or Achilles tendonitis and then go ahead and take Levofloxacin and then be all dismayed and bitter when I get peripheral neuropathy or Achilles tendonitis!; 9/5/19, 11:27 AM
Anne in Rockwall, TX said...: I've looked all over for an answer to the following questions, but with limited success. I just don't know what to trust.

Are there greater incidences of Autism, Aspergers, ADD/HD, etc., or more awareness, internet sharing, and diagnosis? And why?

The "answers" are all over the place.; 9/5/19, 11:27 AM
Sigivald said...: "This is just so shocking. I mean I must just be so monumentally naive."

"You are."; 9/5/19, 11:30 AM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: @Eric

if you havnt done so already, get Dr. Natasha C.McBride's book re:GAPS

a friend's son situation was MARKEDLY improved. It worked.; 9/5/19, 11:44 AM
Anonymous said...: Ice Nine: Big deal. No one is skeptical of the risk of peripheral neuropathy or Achilles tendonitis with Levofloxacin. Those are both well-known and extensively caveated side effects of that drug.

You're correct that this isn't analogous to the vaccine issue, but the advice to be skeptical of commonly-prescribed drugs is well-taken. Had more than one go-'round with doctors who apparently missed the "well-known and extensively caveated" information on certain drugs' side effects. Including some chuckle-head specialist (who didn't know me from Adam) who insisted that a severe reaction to Cipro - comprising symptoms well-known and extensively caveated - must be the result of some "pre-existing mental-health issue" (wtf?), because "Cipro didn't do that". (Fortunately the internist-on-call knew that Cipro did indeed do that, recognized the problem immediately, and dealt with it, with no lasting damage.)

So "say no to drugs" provisionally is good advice in many if not most situations: non-emergencies; until you've had time to research and weigh the cost/benefits yourself; when the side-effects of a prescribed drug are eroding quality of life to a degree that isn't justified or counter-balanced by the level of improvement in the original problem the drug was prescribed for.; 9/5/19, 11:45 AM
n.n said...: take a million kids who have been vaccinated and a million kids who have not, the 2 groups will have the same rate of autism.

That would be an interesting experiment that would produce some solid ground to argue for its progress. In absence of this data, we have the legal and ethical precedents to rely on correlations, inference, and appeals to empathy.; 9/5/19, 11:50 AM
Anthony said...: 90% of the Love from Republicans is because she's hot. The other 10% is for not being as crazy.; 9/5/19, 11:52 AM
Narr said...: We're awash in dangerous drugs, by design. What could be more obvious?

I regret having to take the two I am on now, and my wife takes even more. She has had bad reactions to many things, Cipro included. (0ddly, our class clown son was never diagnosed with ADD/HD even though the system seemed geared to putting as many boys under it as possible . . . come to think of it, I had an older cousin who must have been ADD/HD back in the 50's, before it was a thing AFAIU.)

Narr
As to Marianne, "there's a seeker born every minute."; 9/5/19, 11:57 AM
Fen said...: The biggest reason can be a superficial correlation between a vaccination and the appearance of autism symptoms is that the symptoms of autism typically show up around the age when kids are getting vaccines.

"around the age when kids are getting vaccines" would mean before, during and after.

Is there a significant number of these kids acquiring Autism BEFORE their vacs?; 9/5/19, 11:57 AM
eric said...: Blogger Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...
@Eric

if you havnt done so already, get Dr. Natasha C.McBride's book re:GAPS

a friend's son situation was MARKEDLY improved. It worked.

9/5/19, 11:44 AM

Thanks. I'll head to Amazon and check it out.; 9/5/19, 12:04 PM
Michael K said...: Man would I love for their to be some kind of cure for autism.

Step one is to recognize that it is not vaccination. Malaria is not night air. Mosquitoes fly at night.

We need more young pediatric neurologists to get interested. I did what I could there. I do worry about the "feminization" of medical school. There is an awful lot more about "feelings" these days. Less chemistry and physiology. The psychiatrists have abandoned mental health, for example. The only people who are working on that seriously are neurologists. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, is another example.

Current treatment may involve surgery.

Neurosurgical treatments, including ablative lesion neurosurgery and deep brain stimulation, are reserved for severely symptomatic individuals who have not experienced sustained response to both pharmacological and cognitive behavior therapies.; 9/5/19, 12:09 PM
Ralph L said...: Is there a significant number of these kids acquiring Autism BEFORE their vacs?

There are plenty who were vaccinated or not in olden days before there were so many vaccines.; 9/5/19, 12:11 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Yes, that is the main problem with comment threading- people don't use it correctly. I don't know when it started, probably with the advent of "likes" and "upvotes", but the use of reply on the top/first comment gets worse on sites using Disqus and other threading comments software as time goes on. I have slowly become favorable to non-threading for this very reason.; 9/5/19, 12:15 PM
Yancey Ward said...: "Vaccines and the preservatives change. Somehow this makes no difference."

If the preservatives and the biologicals are not the causes of the autism if there is a link, then this wouldn't be surprising. I will note for argument's sake that the issue may not have anything to do with the actual composition of the vaccine, but is instead caused by injecting an antigen directly into the body to induce an immune reaction. On balance, even if there is a link, taking the vaccines is statistically the right thing to do, even if it does cause autism in some.; 9/5/19, 12:25 PM
grimson said...: The comments are threaded at Breitbart

Is Althouse's use of single-threaded comments intentional or a limitation of Blogger?

Being single-threaded might be like a classroom discussion, but is limiting in that it works best only for real-time discussion. For non-larks, the discussion has already moved on before they even show up. Another advantage of threaded comments is that they allow readers to skip over or focus on the threads based upon their individual interest.; 9/5/19, 12:43 PM
Jim at said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/5/19, 1:20 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: @Eric
don't mention iit-- it would be a privilege to be able to help in some way.
Our friend, like any parent, was heartbroken and at wit's end when he was
told of this protocol by another parent who was grateful and amazed at the improvement
in their child. The results spoke for themselves, and now he is on a sort of mission
to promote this.
You'll be included in our prayers; 9/5/19, 1:27 PM
Jim at said...: You want her? You can have her. - Inga

We don't 'want' her. But some of us are happy she's smart enough to finally realize what vicious fuckheads she's aligned with.; 9/5/19, 1:28 PM
n.n said...: Step one is to recognize that it is not vaccination.

Not vaccines or additives per se, but inflammation, perhaps toxicity of the latter, that are introduced at a vulnerable time in our development?; 9/5/19, 1:34 PM
tim in vermont said...: "Is Althouse's use of single-threaded comments intentional or a limitation of Blogger?”

It’s a feature, not a bug. At JudithCurry.com, everybody replies to the first comment whether it’s on point or not to that comment, sort of like the old game of seeing who gets first ups by throwing a bat in the air and catching it and doing the hand on hand til you get to the top thing.

DO NOT CHANGE IT; 9/5/19, 2:39 PM
Clyde said...: I said this yesterday at Instapundit:

"I suspect that Donald Trump would have said something similar in 2015. A presidential campaign by an outsider can be remarkably clarifying about the nature of its rivals."

And now, a musical interlude for Marianne:

Taylor Swift - Mean; 9/5/19, 2:40 PM
fleg9bo said...: re Cipro & statins

We had a shellfish chowder at dinner at one of Christchurch's better restaurants (pre-earthquake) the night before our plane left. By the time we boarded we were both feeling a little queasy. Soon as the seatbelt sign went off I made a mad dash for the bathroom and barely got my shorts down in time. The wife made her own mad dash, spewing into a barf bag all the way. It was, needless to say, a very long flight home to California.

What this has to do with Cipro is this: The wife recovered from the food poisoning after three days or so. I didn't, so I went to the doc and he prescribed Cipro, first time I ever took it. Very shortly after ingesting the first dose, my tongue started to swell. It was swelling slowly enough that I was able to drive myself over to the nearby hospital and spend an afternoon with an antihistamine drip in my arm. This after almost four days of not being able to keep anything down. The good news was that a different antibiotic fixed me right up.

My statin story is that the one time I tried one, I was feeling so depressed not long after starting that I would rather have had a heart attack than to keep taking it. Since that time I was able to get the numbers close enough to "normal" with diet so as to satisfy my doc. That was in 1996 and the ticker is still ticking.; 9/5/19, 2:49 PM
Bilwick said...: So she's surprised that the Left lies? Gee, an ideological gang whose basic agenda consists of legalized looting--and also gave us "No truth but socialist truth"--actually lies? What a shocker!; 9/5/19, 2:53 PM
FullMoon said...: Until I personally met some autistic kids, I assumed autism was a polite word for retard. Very sad situation for everyone involved.

Not sure if I would be anti-vax if I had babies.

One thing for sure, after reading comments, def gonna stay away from Cipro. How about the rest of you guys?

Meanwhile, a co-worker of a friend who worked in the Senate during the anthrax scare years ago was, like all the staff, was given Cipro "just in case." He ended up in a wheelchair.; 9/5/19, 3:31 PM
FullMoon said...: On balance, even if there is a link, taking the vaccines is statistically the right thing to do, even if it does cause autism in some.

Totally agree, as long as it is not my kid.; 9/5/19, 3:41 PM
Ignatius Acton Chesterton OCD said...: Williamson: "I didn’t think the left was so mean. I didn’t think the left lied like this."

Wake up, woman!

Look at the logical consequences of all the Left’s misanthropic policies, beliefs, standards, etc. This isn’t the law of unintended consequences — pain, suffering and misery are all baked in if you wake up and start asking questions.

Ever met a happy Leftist? Victims, complainers and critics. An ideology powered by lies. That’s all they have. Examples:

Anthropogenic Climate Change
Trump voters are white supremacists (when “RACISM!!!” was no longer enough)
Post-birth abortion (a.k.a., infanticide)
Meat bans to combat Anthropogenic Climate Change
“If you want to keep your doctor, you can keep your doctor”
March for Science (“Science” = Anthropogenic Climate Change advocacy)
Inanimate mechanical objects kill people on their own
Calling felons “justice-involved persons”
Death panel denial
Russia, Russia, Russia!
Higher incidence of spousal abuse around Super Bowls
Rationing... of everything
IRS targeting of conservative groups
U.S. Intelligence apparatus spying on domestic political opposition (Republicans)
Weaponizing the Department of Justice
Human excrement all over Democrat-run cities
Rights for the mentally ill homeless who are not mentally able to exercise said rights
Christine Blasey Ford
Ballot harvesting
Black Lives Matter
Carbon taxes to combat Anthropogenic Climate Change
Operation Crossfire Hurricane
Hillary’s private server and her DOJ-engineered exoneration
Free medical care for migrants who enter the USA illegally
Kalifornia
Harvard admissions standards for Asian applicants
Duke lacrosse case
White House Press Corps
FISA fraud by the FBI
Pallets of cash flown into Tehran at night
“Hands up, don’t shoot!”
Taxes as investments
Red Hen restaurant (Lexington, VA)
National Popular Vote Interstate Compact
President Donald Trump is a a Russian agent
Rise in extreme weather events because of Anthropogenic Climate Change
The NRA is a domestic terror organization
“For the children...”

Etc, etc, etc. All lies.

“Mean” is just scratching the surface. The Left hates humanity.; 9/5/19, 3:56 PM
Mark said...: Anything in the Cipro family -- I took levofloxacin (Levaquin) -- is toxic.

I wouldn't take it again even as a "last resort."; 9/5/19, 4:05 PM
LA_Bob said...: Mark said, "Vaccines back in the day were no problem."

Not true. I never had a smallpox vaccination, because it was known in the 1960's (and likely before) that childhood eczema and the smallpox vaccine don't mix. The reaction can even be fatal in infants.

It certainly makes sense that other vaccines might have comparable issues. It's just not clear the governmental-medical complex cares enough to pay attention or admit they don't know it all.

Maybe it's really that medical pride was a bit less of a problem than it is now.; 9/5/19, 4:08 PM
Fen said...: Re: I had no idea my fellow Democrats were so mean.

How can someone so "in tune" remain so ignorant?; 9/5/19, 4:22 PM
grimson said...: everybody replies to the first comment whether it’s on point or not to that comment

That can be avoided by how the threading is done. In our local paper, for example, the comments are threaded, but only the first few responses to a comment are displayed; to see more responses to that comment, you need to keep clicking "More."; 9/5/19, 4:55 PM
Matt Sablan said...: It is naive.; 9/5/19, 5:43 PM
JML said...: My Aunt is a retired nurse - former flight nurse, retired General Officer. Pretty bright lady. She has talked to many eastern doctors and practitioners (Chinese in particular) who tell her Western Medicine is good at treating the symptom, but not the underlying cause. They tell her Eastern Medicine tries to find the cause. I think a marriage of the two is best - sometimes acupuncture does work and sometimes you need pills to control the pain. I used to suffer from severe cramps - my muscles would knot up fierce. It would be like I had rocks in my muscles. I was getting the deep massage and PT. I was also investigating acupuncture when I ran across 'dry needling'. I asked my PT about it and he got very excited. He said he as certified in it, but no one has ever asked him about it and wasn't sure insurance would cover it. I told him I wanted to try it. So he gets it squared away with the insurance company. I'm laying on the table with a duck egg knot deep in my left leg. He jabs. Very slight sting. Nothing. Jabs, nothing. Jabs, nothing...jabs...HOLY SHIT! I felt the knot do some king of strange movement, then, it was gone. It was amazing. Very unorthodox, who'd of thought, and amazing results. I also use Hyland's leg cramp pills. My wife always thought I was nuts. ( am, but not about this.) One night she wakes up screaming - her foot was all contorted - gave her two of them. 20 seconds later she says, "Oh my God, it worked."; 9/5/19, 7:25 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: Warren: Native-American
Maryanne: Naive-American; 9/5/19, 7:27 PM