Why is everyone missing the best line of this video?— Caitlin Flanagan (@CaitlinPacific) September 11, 2019
Where she talks about feminism’s great task: “the general reprogramming of most people’s minds?” https://t.co/IFjv8P98r9
I like the part about the etymology of "guy." I didn't know it's from the name Guy and the specific Guy, Guy Fawkes. I checked in the OED and this is the official origin of the common noun "guy."
It began with the effigy of Guy Fawkes, burnt on Guy Fawkes day. The effigy was called "a guy": "Once on a fifth of November I found a ‘Guy’ trusted to take care of himself there, while his proprietors had gone to dinner" (Charles Dickens, 1863).
From there it became "A person of grotesque appearance" — especially with respect to clothing, as in "We have far too many sculptured ‘Guys’ in the metropolis" (1880 Daily Tel.).
Finally, it was just "A man, fellow. originally U.S." Early examples:
1898 Milwaukee (Wisconsin) Sentinel 22 Jan. 4/7 I s'pose you got a Bible you'll let a guy look into.The OED has a "Draft addition" from October 2011 accepting the word "As a form of address to a man" and "Also in plural as a form of address to a group of people, in later use sometimes a mixed or all-female group."
1904 Cincinnati Commercial Tribune 29 June 4 Mr. Bryan is a hefty guy when it comes to Democratic conventions and the platforms thereof.
1928 D. H. Lawrence in T.P.'s Weekly 7 July 333/3 I say to Mother: Show me somebody happy, then! And she shows me some guy, or some bright young thing, and gets mad when I say: See the pretty monkey!
1930 J. Dos Passos 42nd Parallel i. 102 Say, yous guys, this is fellowworker McCreary....I love that the OED has a completely gratuitous, random "fuck."
1993 M. Crichton Disclosure i. 22 Fuck 'em all. This reorg sucks. I'm with you on this one, guy....
Anyway, should you address groups that are not all men as "guys"? You should know that some people will (in some situations) regard you as casually noninclusive.
What if the people you're addressing are are male? I know of a woman whose husband fell into a fury and berated her publicly for referring to him and his male friends as "guys." He heard it as a putdown. I wasn't there, so I can't tell how wrong he may have been. I could imagine a woman saying "guys" in a negative way. In which case, it's not the word. It's the inflection.
How about addressing just one man as "guy"? Reminds me of this old Right Guard commercial:
Posts
153 comments:
I really hate it when a waiter/waitress says “hi, you guys, how are you tonight?”
‘Hey guys’ seems innocuous, because it is.
If you're around those Sensitive People, you can say "hay guise!" instead.
Reprogramming our minds? Is that a racist, "Learn to code" dog whistle? Will there be electrodes involved?
Ok, here's what they're leading up to:
"Greetings, comrades!"
Huh. Who knew I had culturally appropriated part of my moniker from the Brits!
I notice if someone addresses a group and says "hey guys"... they usually follow it up with a "...and gals".
I'm neutral. Say what you want. It is better to be accurate. I hope her lecture doesn't start a war.
When I complained to my daughters twenty years ago that "hey guys" wasn't a proper way to address their girlfriends, they called me old-fashioned, but now they'll surely realize I was way ahead of my time.
Y'all is good. Though at some point, hayseeds might feel offended, and suburbanites might feel demeaned.
"small rope, chain, wire," 1620s, nautical; earlier "leader" (mid-14c.), from Old French guie "a guide," also "a crane, derrick," from guier, from Frankish *witan "show the way" or a similar Germanic source, from Proto-Germanic *witanan "to look after, guard, ascribe to, reproach" (source also of German weisen "to show, point out," Old English witan "to reproach," wite "fine, penalty"), from PIE root *weid- "to see." Or from a related word in North Sea Germanic.
later
"fellow," 1847, American English; earlier, in British English (1836) "grotesquely or poorly dressed person," originally (1806) "effigy of Guy Fawkes," leader of the Gunpowder Plot to blow up British king and Parliament (Nov. 5, 1605). The effigies were paraded through the streets by children on the anniversary of the conspiracy. The male proper name is from French, related to Italian Guido.
- etymonline.com
The word "guy" mutated and acquired a negative connotation. Something similar happened with "conservative", and the normalization of strong negative associations, and "progress" or monotonic change that is associated with strong positive attributions, "liberal" or divergence with tolerance, etc. And, with further progress, "masculine" and "masculinity", "feminine" and "femininity", "gay", "baby", "reproduction", "procreation", "mother", "father", etc. have also undergone forced semantic changes succumbing to social progress.
On a related subject, the only thing that beats the French pronunciation of the name Guy is the German pronunciation of the name Helmut.
"How do you do, fellow kids?"
My "line in the sand" is women saying "bucks" as in "Can I borrow a few bucks?" That word when used to describe money does not sound right coming out of a woman's mouth, to my ear. I used to get onto my little sister a lot when we were young trying to get her to stop using that word.
These days, "guys" does have more of a unisex feel to it.
Try reprogramming my mind, bitch. I’ll kick you in your fucking arrogant ass.
Had to look up beyhive.
She kinda undermines herself at the very end, pairing it with a very cute laugh.
Well, you could just do what I do, combine 'he, she, it' into simply 'shit' and use that as your normative pronoun for everybody and all occaissions..
Or do what we did in the Navy, and just refer to everbody as 'bud'.
Though I do rather like y'all as a nice alternative.
But really - isn't there something real to be concerned about instead of the manufactured crisis of the day?
Sadly, probably not.
Where she talks about feminism’s great task: “the general reprogramming of most people’s minds?”
All the Young Dudes
We never got it off on that revolution stuff
What a drag, too many snags
Now I've drunk a lot of wine and I'm feeling fine
Got to race some cat to bed
Oh, is that concrete all around
Or is it in my head?
Yeah
I'm a dude, dad
All the young dudes (I want to hear you)
Carry the news (I want to see you)
Boogaloo dudes (I want to relate to you)
Carry the news
Never known anyone to have an issue with this usage. Sounds very First World Problem to me. Note that in these parts it's pronounced Gee, especially as a first name of a hockey player.
The commercial featured Chuck McCann, who had a kid’s TV show in New York in the ‘60’s. Funny guy.
From leader to masculine to toxic. Semantic evolution forced by social progress... we'll have a gay olde time.
this old Right Guard commercial:
Wow! I would've sworn that guy at the end was going to turn around and yell "Mom!", but it was "Mona!", which is almost as pitiful. Hard to believe that ad sold anything.
But I liked the officedroids chanting "ball point pen" at the end, consistent with the mysterious ways of the people of the '70s.
Try reprogramming my mind, bitch. I’ll kick you in your fucking arrogant ass.
I suspect most Althouse commenters would think it improper to use the term "guys" to address a group that includes women, but a sizable portion will now think they have to just because some baby feminist says she agrees with them.
My first true love was a transplant from Shaker Heights, Ohio and made friends out of everyone she met. She called everybody in a group You Guys. In honor of her I still see Guy as a term of warm respect.
If they're complaining about crap like this, life must be pretty good. Right, guys?
Anyway, should you address groups that are not all men as "guys"? You should know that some people will (in some situations) regard you as casually noninclusive.
That's why I do it. It's a good method to identify people unable to function in society.
The proper term for a group of women is Dolls.
Shouldn't Gillette change the name to "Left Guard"?
I suppose "Ladies and Gentlemen" is also right out since it is binary.
Arashi said...
Though I do rather like y'all as a nice alternative.
9/11/19, 12:15 PM
I am having problems with the printer so I have not yet been able to print off the newsspeak dictionary updates for the day but I believe "y'all" is somehow racist...
Of course, anyone who has played organized sports as actual guys is familiar with the coach using "Ladies" to address the team when it is losing.
I'm starting to feel like Eddie Griffin in Undercover Brother:
"Uh, brother, can I get a list of the words that trigger these fits?"
@n.n. The OED gives that guy wire lineage a separate entry.
Guy for man comes from the proper noun, a French name.
I’ve got three grandchildren, two girls and a boy.
Everybody, including their mother, aunts and grandma, call the group “guys.”
What’s the problem?
I can see the point Now This is trying to make. It could be mildly insulting to a select few people to address a mixed group as "guys".
But
You know what is 1,000 times more irritating and worthy of scorn?
Being told what words are acceptable by someone who has not been elected as police chief of other people's word choices. That's what.
If you’re being informal, using the term guys is just fine, or guys and gals, but calling the entire group of people gals,well, it just won’t work.
@dbp
Exactly.
The women of my generation have been ungodly obnoxious bitches and scolds.
Give it a break.
Quit creating the fucking New Man and New Woman. Quit being assholes.
If one were inclined to chase weird theories for a cause of the increase in the number of "scolds". Once could sight a number of possible factors.
a) The easy of access to and the wide audience of social media giving a soapbox for any screed, whereas in the past only their immediate family and friends would be aware.
b) The proliferation of career women that choose to delay marriage and children while entering their prime nit-picking years. Having no husband or children to "correct" have to focus that energy on complete strangers.
c) a & b...
Just throwing these out there...
The OED gives that guy wire lineage a separate entry.
Separate and later where it evolved with a negative sense.
As usual, Dave Chappelle has the right idea.
Once you've fallen into the always-deleted category, there is no way to get back out, and to continue to try to comment is to harass me.
That's really not true is it?
FrankiM said...
9/11/19, 12:36 PM
oops-- Up!
We say 'guys' to all, and leave the toilet seat UP.
out of consideration.
I suppose "Ladies and Gentlemen" is also right out since it is binary.
Not to mention a sense of conservative propriety, or worse, a perception of acting "white". The horror.
Somebody wasted a lot of money trying to educate that stupid bitch.
We should respect our roots and conform with social progress. Everyone should henceforth be addressed as fetus #1, #2, etc. or fetuses when addressing more than one. We can also use the socioscientific labels "womb bank" or "sperm depositer" when necessary to discern fetuses without emphasizing its genetic sex and phenotypic/medical gender.
I can see why that husband thought it a put down. A few years ago someone in the media mentioned that we were in the throes of "Guy Mania," and I remember how there was a flurry of books and articles about guys. I'm a guy, in the sense of being of the male gender, but these articles would talk of guys as inherently low-brow. Guys like barbequing meat, guys like watching sports on tv, etc. Nothing wrong with any of those things, of course, but you would never see anything like, "Guys like reading books" or "Guys like going to art museums."
I grew up in the northeast and there is a strong culture of the non-gendered use of "you guys" in that region. To us it just does not mean "men," it never has, it means "people," it's completely inclusive. Since moving to another part of the country, I've been scolded by peers- we're millennials- that I "should know better" but I can't seem to pull off "y'all" with any kind of authenticity. If I'm addressing a group of all women, I've stopped using "you guys," but it remains my default in mixed company.
She's not the boss of me. I'm also not going to watch her stupid video, either.
The whole problem here is the denigration of the perfectly good words "gal" and "gals." This probably comes from the desire to eliminate the term "gal Friday," which is fine. But, as is generally the case, Progressives have no limiting principle. Enough is never enough.
Boys and girls, guys and gals, men and women, ladies and gentlemen, maybe even lads and lassies, are all equivalents and perfectly good words. But since "gals" has been stigmatized, "guys" has to do double duty - or triple if you count the "y'all" usage.
As to the original author, all I can say is: go reprogram yourself.
In our house, family, friend group we refer to any group of people as “guys”. All male, all female, or mixed. If it is a singular person it’s “dude”.
In a different thread I think I referred to a gym employee as gym guy. Though the thought in my head was really “gym dude”.
About five years ago we had a gathering of my husband’s mother’s branch of the family some of whom are from the south. I was with a group of the women in the kitchen and my high school aged son walked up, asked me a question, and then left. The southern mom looked at me completely flabbergasted and said, “He just duded you!”
I think this is a deplorable thing. Trump gets this.
Does "dude" fall under the same rules of usage?
In boot camp we were addressed as "Youse fucking guys"
Todd said...
These days, "guys" does have more of a unisex feel to it.
Yeah, when I go up to a couple of chicks I know at the gym I always say "Hi guys!"
I use "chicks" a lot.
E.g., "Hey, who's the new chick at the front desk?"
I prefer "cats and chicks". Middle-aged women don't mind.
I address most groups of people as 'guys' normally, sometimes folks, sometimes people.
A younger female colleague and I had great fun greeting each other as 'Dude!' in as many accents, inflections, and settings as possible. And the majority of my female coworkers called groups guys.
Every time some questionnaire was sent out, some guys and gals would sqawk (squawk?) about the use of 'sex' rather than 'gender' (and vice-versa) . . . endless inanity.
Narr
Me Guy! Big Guy! Fun Guy! Guy!
“We say 'guys' to all, and leave the toilet seat UP.”
Makes sense to me. A lot more than the “rule” in our household that it must always be left down. My partner points out that that was the way that she was raised, and shows respect for women. I counter that the reason it was that way was was that they had 4-5 females and only 3 males in their household. In our house, the two bathrooms upstairs, with a 1-1 mix (my parents), the seats were usually left down. Downstairs (5-0 male), the seats were almost always left up. She is noticeably unimpressed when I point out that there was a study done that showed that leaving the seats where they last were (not putting the up or down afterwards) was more efficient. Some are weird this way.
This is the kind of crap white progressives obsess over 24/7. So tiresome, so very tiresome. "FUCK OFF" how about that as an expression? A clear majority of people are tired of being hectored over common expressions by the perpetually butt hurt. Its a mugs game. I suggest we stop playing, now.
What up hoes? works for me.
Yeah, when I go up to a couple of chicks I know at the gym I always say "Hi guys!"
I never use the word "chicks" that way. Broads hate it.
Dames. . . . . .
this is how you get reavers, I mean incels, some people rebel against their conditioning,
My wife spent part of her youth in Pittsburgh where she learned to address any group of people as guys. It has always sounded rude and jarring to my southern ears, where we call everyone y'all. But like a lot of things these days, offense can be taken where none is intended. "Hi guys" has always been gender neutral, until about 30 minutes ago.
So if you are addressing a group, and you want to know what individual members of the group think on the topic, I think the only safe thing to say is: "I am interested in the opinions of individuals in this audience."
You can't say:
"What do you think, guys?" (offensive to women)
"What do you think, guys and gals?" (offensive to those uncertain about their sexual identify)
"What do you people think?" (offensive to those who do not identify as "people")
"What do you think?" (offensive failure to use preferred pronouns)
All this time I thought Guy was short for Guillaume.
In the US you can replace 'guys' and 'dudes' with 'lucky fuckers.'
Because if you were born here rather than a shit-hole country you are indeed a lucky fucker -- male, female, or otherwise.
I am Laslo.
In the 90s at a mall, I once saw a young woman (late teens) stop to tie her shoe while her group of friends (all female) continued walking. She yelled "Hey, guys, wait up!" to them.
I thought it an interesting use of language.
The tweet keeps disappearing on me as the page refreshes.
Didn't that guy who complained about the chatter at the Democratic Socialist confab get blasted for addressing the other wackos present with "Hey, guys!"?
She yelled "Hey, guys, wait up!" to them.
Historically and semantically correct.
She could also substitute chicks. What, you're too good for poultry?
"Hi folks" is an obvious option. But I'm sure someone is offended by that...
Rita Moreno: "HEY, YOU GUYS!!!"
I knew a southerner who thought it was strange that northerners called females "guys". I thought it was a more inclusive, less sexist usage, but the Woke know better than I.
Laslo, your expertise is needed in the previous thread. The cousin one.
"Hi folks" is an obvious option. But I'm sure someone is offended by that...
It's vulgar term used by urbane people to signal their contempt for "flyover" people... persons.
"There was a study done that showed that leaving the seats where they last were (not putting the up or down afterwards) was more efficient."
We have one upstairs bathroom. More girls than boys using. But I put the lid down to stop things I am holding (or dropping) from falling into the open toilet. Not very efficient to fish out the tube of toothpaste from the bottom of the toilet. The lid works pretty well.
Bruce Hayden:
"shows respect for women"
I would LIKE it if the question "name a single way in which women are ever expected to show respect for men" could ever be answered, because I can't think of a single solitary one, but I realize men don't even get the level of respect required to be allowed to ask that question without being berated for it.
Arashi said...
Or do what we did in the Navy, and just refer to everbody as 'bud'.
I'm holding out for a return to the days when 'Mac' was the standard generic appellation.
There is a very good reason for putting the toilet seat down when there are females (dare I say "gals"?) in the household. For females going to the bathroom at 2am in the dark when the seat is left up can result in rear end in the toilet. This is a very uncomfortable and potentially injurious situation. This is not likely to happen to guys (I hope no one is offended by me using this term but it seemed apropos). Therefore, it follows that toilet seat DOWN should always be the default.
A clear majority of people are tired of being hectored over common expressions by the perpetually butt hurt. Its a mugs game. I suggest we stop playing, now.
That statement bears repeating.
All this time I thought Guy was short for Guillaume.
Since Guillaume is French for William, the short version should be Gwill.
For addressing a group of people of mixed genders, and even mixed ages, as "you guys".
You should know that some people will (in some situations) regard you as casually noninclusive.
I say fuck 'em. How about y'all stop being such wilting widdle flowers, delicate melting snowflakes. "YOU PEOPLE" who are so oversensitive suck. Toughen up Buttercup.
Is that better?
Anyway, should you address groups that are not all men as "guys"? You should know that some people will (in some situations) regard you as casually noninclusive.
Correct, and there is a term for people that think like that: asshole.
If you address a group of people as "you guys" you are necessarily including everyone there, including females. just like "mankind" includes all men and women and women are allowed down manholes. I've heard a woman call a group of women "you guys".
This is another one of those mundane everyday things that wokejunkies are trying to change so they can get their daily wokehigh, and makes themselves feel sufficiently woke but doesn't change anything and only irritates normal people and doesn't truly last. Plus, they're wrong about it.
Professional lady:
The thing is, half the times that we men go to the bathroom at 2am, we need to sit down too. I wonder what mechanism keeps us from falling into the toilet seat when it is up and we need to "number two".
Listening to a 20 something feminist mouthpiece lecturing us about language - LOL! Sweet!
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
"Guy for man comes from the proper noun, a French name. 9/11/19, 12:32 PM"
So true, but why stop there? Before that Old German and before that, etc., etc.
Going back that far has no relation to (before the feminist language police) today's meaning.
Correct, and there is a term for people that think like that: asshole.
Rear or back hole. Nether hole? Perhaps posterior, if you're feeling particularly drowsy ("woke").
it follows that toilet seat DOWN should always be the default.
That's why a married guy invented the nightlight.
Unnecessary politicization of a word, but if this point of view leads to fewer restaurant people calling my wife and me "You guys" I will be happy. Now, can we somehow politicize "Grab" as in "I'll grab you a menu and silverware."
Young adults now all seem to use "guys" to refer to either sex. I think the assumption is that any female who might otherwise take offense at being referred to as a "guy" has the choice to hear it as irony.
The most charming usage is when a woman refers to herself or another woman as a "nice guy," as in, "Here I was just trying to be a nice guy and help her out and she's gets all offended."
Someone above mentioned waiters and waitresses who call all groups of diners "guys." I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with "no problem," as in, CUSTOMER: "I guess I'll have the sea bass special": WAITRESS: "No problem." Of course it's "no problem" for me to order a dish at a restaurant and for the waitress to bring it to me. It's what we're both there for. She shouldn't respond as if she's doing me a favor.
How could Althouse have missed the great Rita Moreno?
Althouse said,
"I love that the OED has a completely gratuitous, random 'fuck.'"
Why?
Isn't this a little old hat? Several years ago, I heard Douglas Hofstadter go on and on about the sexist use of guys.
Are we moving away from or toward more gendering?
Personally I've generally taken the term "guys" to be a more genderless term when used casually. And I assumed that that would be thought of as a Good Thing by our Deciders and Social Betters. I mean, female actors are often not referred to as "actresses" much any more. But this seems to imply that gendering is a desirable thing? I'm confused.
Navin R. Johnson: These hoodlums are dangerous. I think we oughta get out of here before she sees us.
Marie: She?
Navin R. Johnson: What?
Marie: You said she.
Navin R. Johnson: No! No! I always call a gang "she". It's like when you call a boat "she", or a hurricane "she".
Marie: Or a girl?
Navin R. Johnson: A girl, you can call a girl she, that's just one of the many things you can call she.
I never use the word "chicks" that way. Broads hate it.
I see what you did there.
Broads is kind of age-ist. If they have great gams, Dolls would be appropriate.
Hey Guys!
Congrats on taking 1st, 2nd, & 3rd place in Women's Track!
Her comparison of 'Guys' to 'Gals' is pretty dishonest. She even acknowledged that while guy and guys can mean male and males, it also can be gender neutral. Gal and Gals is definitely not gender neutral. Nor would a male term like gentleman or gentlemen be gender neutral.
Also I one hundred percent do not care about someone's feeling of being non-gender or gender-fluid. David Bowie can dress up like Ziggy Stardust all he wants, he is still David Bowie. (he didn't die he just now lives on the moon)
Professional lady said...
...it follows that toilet seat DOWN should always be the default.
Personally, I think you should be happy I bothered to raise the seat in the first place...
You should know that some people will (in some situations) regard you as casually noninclusive.
I don't have to care what "some people" think, in random casual use.
(I will tailor language to specific audiences, but that's consideration of special desires, not a moral duty.)
Personally, I’v always appreciated a perfectly gratuitous random fuck — which is even more safe when she uses and OED.
I, for one, appreciate being told my group greeting was non-inclusive and offensive. That tells me directly who needs to be ignored as long as I work with them, because they are stupid and/or crazy. I refuse to submit my intent, the very meaning of the words I use, to the malevolent definition of someone else.
let's all pitch in
and get that SJW a couple of tix to see "Guys And Dolls"
on Broadway.
Althouse said "Guy for man comes from the proper noun, a French name."
Guy (Gi) is derivative of "Guido" a given name Latinised from the Old High German name "Wido" that originated in Medieval Italy.
However, one suspects that the English given name Guy is an Anglicized shortened version of Guillaume which arrived with the Normans.
BTW- The word Dude(s) has become the most current Guy(s) alternative...is that usage also now discouraged or does it abide?
I will also add, that I don't think all uses of guy can be gender neutral either. I think the singular guy is still probably mainly viewed as masculine as well as specifically the term, 'one of the guys.'
@Ignorance is Bliss
good point!
btw- how are you holding up? Disregard the question if you dont feel up to it-
we understand.
Personally, I think you should be happy I bothered to raise the seat in the first place...
Exactly!!
Mr. Bryan is a hefty guy when it comes to Democratic conventions and the platforms thereof.
They learned to come up with bigger planks.
Gillette was woke in '76.
Rita Moreno: "HEY, YOU GUYS!!!"
That was my first thought.
I always insisted that my 6th grade students call me Mister Dude if they were tempted to call me dude.
I don't know about y'all, you guys seem OK to me.
As toilet seats, I leave them up to respect thirsty cats and dogs.
There are too many guys (of both sexes -- yes, only two!) out there looking for something to be offended about. At this point, I no longer care if people are offended by silly stuff like this. If that makes me a bad person, I don't care about that either.
Sorry, did you hear "guy?"
I need to do a better job of enunciating: "Gyne."
"Folks" works well for groups of people as well, regardless of gender composition.
As I moved from the East I've adapted the genius of "y'all"
“So true, but why stop there? Before that Old German and before that, etc., etc.”
I wasn’t trying to stop there only to establish that the guy in guy wire comes from a different lineage.
I use ,"you lot" .As in ,"You lot are a bunch of simple fucks, aren't you." Includes both men and women.
Wait . . . those things go up and down? Just kidding, I've used one for years.
Before a recent medical procedure, I experienced what few guys (and presumably fewer gals) have-- 2AM, on my seat of ease, I lived the old joke with the punchline--
Yeah, and deep too!
But not in a good way.
Narr
It's a scrote thang, you wouldn't understand
Didn't Tracy Ullman try to reprogram some "so woke" minds?
When my family irritates me I refer to them as you people.
Guys used to be just boys/men. But then girls used to avoid first names like "Ryan" or "Mackenzie" "Ashley" or "Brook" or "Hillary".
Some times change. Besides, No man has ever called me "Guy". Probably because its too close to "Gay". And that can cause trouble.
I usually address mixed groups as "Herrenvolk". Most people are flattered.
William Jennings Bryan doesn't get tagged enough. He ran for President 3 times, y'know.
“Mona!”
I din’t really snap on that commercial until I heard that line at the end. Then in all came back. There were a lot of “Mona!” commercials, I think.
"When my family irritates me I refer to them as you people.”
I like “you lot” myself.
"Guy (Gi) is derivative of "Guido" a given name Latinised from the Old High German name "Wido" that originated in Medieval Italy. “
For a long time I read “Guildofcannonballs” as “Guido Cannonballs”
Like “Joey Bag of Donuts."
God, just always put both seat and lid down. It's not that hard.
She thinks she's so woke? Ha! She forgot to mention "zi" and zir" in her litany of preferred pronouns.
There's also a deep, depressing, terrible irony that she talks about the dangers of ignoring personhood and of dehumanizing people - and yet believes that dehumanizing an unborn person is a woman's right. Rip that unborn he, she, it, they, or zir to shreds, who cares, it's a woman's right to kill her children.
Many Northerners (like myself) have long used "hey, you guys" (or in NY "youse guys") when addressing a group of people in a casual situation, whether they are all male or not. That's because we Yankees don't use the excellent "y'all" as a second person plural. It never occurred to me or anybody I knew to take offense.
Several guys(!)/folks(?) here have mentioned Rita Moreno ... who else watched "The Electric Company"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BxXVz2jNxw
"It never occurred to me or anybody I knew to take offense.”
Hence the need for re-programming.
It's important we add to the pile of things we must create as offensive.
I have to police my language carefully to ensure that I don't use extremely common words so that an extremely small group of people don't mistakenly feel excluded.
Meanwhile, if I feel excluded or in any way offended by other people using language historically and usually still regarded as profane, I need to STFU and die.
Got it.
And people wonder why suicide rates are up. Everything is insane.
Magnum PI
Friends! Romans! Countrymen!
Narr
Nobody salutates like that any more
All you have to do Biff, is keep track of the small list of people you are allowed to mock and deride. For instance, you can still tell “Pollock” jokes, or Irish jokes, as long as you generalize the butt of the jokes to white men in general.
“A white guy, a white guy, and a white guy walk into a bar...."
"And the lady from the provinces, who dresses like a guy ..."
Gilbert and Sullivan weren't talking about transvestism in The Mikado. "Dresses like a guy" meant in raggedy old clothes like a scarecrow.
But when they used the "n word" in the same song, they were talking about what you would think they were talking about.
"Hey, guys" is a pure Midwesternism. It has applied to male guys and female guys for decades.
You betcha it is. Midwesterners were way ahead of history, eliminating the two genders long ago.
Old American tourist question: "Who's this guy Fawkes?"
Going out with the guys is always more fun when one of the crew is a gal-guy.
Not to change the subject, but our hostess has shown an interest in fashion and I feel like there is an hard to approach, but valid, issue with the Now This' makeup choices.
She is wearing lip coloring that is significantly lighter than her skin-tone. This is odd-looking and jarring. Not only does it make her mouth seem out of proportion, it really, to me, hinted at the appearance achieved when someone is in blackface. I think a better look is achieved with dark rich reds, plums and such.
Rabel said...
Althouse said,
"I love that the OED has a completely gratuitous, random 'fuck.'"
Why?
Maybe she never heard the song line: F them all, F them all, the long, the short and the tall (or the needle, the airspeed, the ball)
Regards — Cliff
Would you prefer 'you broads?'
My idea of calling everyone "Unit Homo sapien" looks pretty good right now, doesn't it? Only aliens from outer space parading as humans will find that offensive.
I'm so confused. My neighbor's daughters are Emerson, Charlie and I know at least one Sydney (a girl) and many, many more examples. Calling a bunch of girls 'guys' is wrong, but calling one girl a guy is PROGRESS.
Did no one else notice that she ends that ridiculous spiel with "Hey guys, thanks for watching, make sure to subscribe"?
Did she post this on AITA reddit?
I don't want to upend a longstanding practice.
"I always insisted that my 6th grade students call me Mister Dude if they were tempted to call me dude."
Or Duderino, if you're not into the brevity thing.
"Carbon based unit" covers everything, I think.
Narr
None of this 'creature of light' bullshit
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