Althouse: At the Thursday Night Cafe...

August 8, 2019

At the Thursday Night Cafe...

... you can talk about whatever you want.

155 comments:

Tank said...: Is it possible that while destroying the country Biden could be just as entertaining as Trump. Hmmmmm.; 8/8/19, 9:14 PM
narciso said...: That would be gallows humor:
https://www.judicialwatch.org/uncategorized/judicial-watch-fbi-302-interviews-with-bruce-ohr-on-spygate-released-to-judicial-watch/; 8/8/19, 9:17 PM
Oso Negro said...: I keep trying to understand how otherwise intelligent people insist on blaming inanimate objects for human behavior. I do understand blame shifting. As a chemical plant manager, I noted that workers would blame equipment for their own carelessness or mistakes. One fellow fell off the bottom rung of a ladder and bruised his foot. But I knew very well that if you were using proper three-point contact descending the ladder, you would not fall. Still, he blamed the ladder. People are insisting on blaming guns for the mass shootings that the media bother to report. By this train of logic, we might blame Pearl Harbor on the Japanese aircraft carriers, or blame the invasion of Poland on the Panzers. Mao himself noted that he has "millet plus rifles". Do we blame the millet or the rifles for his atrocities? If you can first blame the gun, not the wielder, you can invest any mechanical object with agency.; 8/8/19, 9:18 PM
traditionalguy said...: It's hitting the fan today on release of declassified documents that have been withheld for years to protect the massively criminal activities of the FBI and the DOJ and the State Department. Daniel Coats teamed with other Senate Intelligence Committee GOP and DEM Senators was covering it up hoping to preserve the mass corruption system in DC.

But the 6th way from Sunday has at last bit the dust.The Military Intelligence guys that kept their sacred oaths are in command now of National Intelligence and will be arresting the sell out people shortly.; 8/8/19, 9:27 PM
cf said...: A prayer, a Toast, for Sen. Rand Paul, suffering more now, they had to remove part of his lung now, Powerful Goodness flow through and inform every cell in his body, lighten his pain and hardship, surround him with sweet and bountiful rest and tenderness now, that he Live! a strong delightful Life. Salud. {clink!}; 8/8/19, 9:33 PM
Andrew said...: "Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids." - Joe Biden today.

"We choose truth over facts." - Joe Biden, also today.

Biden is the gift that keeps on giving. On Twitter, lots of Dems are freaking out because they know that Trump will make mincemeat of him.; 8/8/19, 9:35 PM
Ken B said...: Oso
I agree there is a lot of totemic stuff. But that isn’t the real argument. The real argument is,we can reduce the power of the weapons the nutters have, or can easily obtain.
That is a sound argument for gun control.
There are also sound arguments against gun control.
This is the annoying aspect of this non-debate. There are good arguments on both sides, and no partisan on either side will admit it.; 8/8/19, 9:35 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: will the Betophiles,
and like-minded leftists who are in favor of felons voting,

extend this privilege to "white supremacist" mass murderers?; 8/8/19, 9:36 PM
Achilles said...: Democrats hold a KKK rememberance rally

In 50 years Democrats are going to be blaming Antifa/BLM and their murders on their political opponents just like they are using the KKK today.; 8/8/19, 9:36 PM
Andrew said...: @Tank,
No offense I hope. I didn't realize you had linked to Biden's quote.; 8/8/19, 9:37 PM
narciso said...: The post waited 22 paragraphs to point out that an Greek born chaldean deported to Iraq has a long string of criminal offenses; 8/8/19, 9:38 PM
narciso said...: They've been working on strategies to sell registration and confiscation for probably 30 years now.; 8/8/19, 9:40 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: good summer, but they will have a Great Fall:

The Humpty Dumpty Institute

Adam Schiff, Debbie Wasserman Schultz Advise Think Tank Led By Jeffrey Epstein’s Brother

https://dailycaller.com/2019/08/07/jeffery-mark-epstein-democratic-representatives/

***

and if Wexner claims he was bilked out of 46 million, did he go to the authorities?; 8/8/19, 9:47 PM
Gospace said...: Ken B,

There are no sound arguments for gun control.

There are two types of gun control supporters. The woefully misinformed and misled. Ant the totaltarian wannabes who do the misinforming and misleading.; 8/8/19, 9:47 PM
Achilles said...: Andrew said...
"Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids." - Joe Biden today.

"We choose truth over facts." - Joe Biden, also today.

Biden is the gift that keeps on giving. On Twitter, lots of Dems are freaking out because they know that Trump will make mincemeat of him.

I think it is just as likely the dem candidate is not in the field yet.

I think it is also possible they just leave the electoral system completely rather than lose and try to destroy all the institutions they can.

Some shit is about to drop on Google.

Declassification begins. Coates is out. The wall is crumbling around the swamp.

Violence is the route they have chosen. It will escalate.; 8/8/19, 9:48 PM
Beasts of England said...: 'Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids.'

The political ads are writing themselves...; 8/8/19, 9:49 PM
WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...: wut bout da dum white kidz?; 8/8/19, 9:52 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: You know who was a total stud? Actor Kris Kristofferson

The guy played rugby in college; was a Rhodes Scholar, was an Army helicopter pilot; wrote a ton of country hits such as "Me and Bobby McGee"; became a country singing star; became a movie star (Semi-Tough with Burt Reynolds, and slept with a lotta famous singers and actlresses.

He's still plugging away at 83.; 8/8/19, 9:52 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: "Glenn Simpson was talking directly to Victoria Nuland (aka 'Toria')at the State Dept. during the 2016 campaign,
tying Hillary Clinton closer to the conspiracy,
according to just-released FBI agent Joseph Pientka's 302 summaries of interviews with Bruce Ohr uncovered by Judicial Watch
As more and more documentary evidence emerges, the Spygate scandal (to frame Trump) and Exonergate scandal (to clear Clinton) are merging, with the State Department (& Clinton) as the nexus"

Mueller Tied to Double Deception: First in Court, Then Before Congress

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/08/06/mueller_suspected_of_compound_deception_of_judge_congress_in_overstating_kremlin_role_119854.html; 8/8/19, 9:57 PM
narciso said...: Dial down the ambient noise

https://www.nysun.com/foreign/trump-plays-the-long-game-on-china/90789/?fbclid=IwAR2naOaOcP3PDltxKOWtPRJ8iloCcLst25fMd4yyQC404gRzEgUIQrbT-EQ; 8/8/19, 9:59 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: “There are no sound arguments for gun control.”

I agree.

“The real argument is,we can reduce the power of the weapons the nutters have, or can easily obtain.”

Except that isn’t what is proposed. Rather than potentially banning high powered rifles and carbines, the proposal seems to be to ban lower powered firearms on the basis that they incorporate technology that is less than 60 years old. Banning “assault weapons” would essentially be banning guns based on cosmetics and ergonomics. Of course, police and criminals will continue to obtain fully automatic firearms functionally equivalent to the semiautomatic firearms that would be banned as “assault weapons”.; 8/8/19, 10:00 PM
Oso Negro said...: @Ken B - I must ask you - do you think the world was less violent before we had firearms? Do you think the world will be less violent when firearms are obsolete? I would prefer to see laws requiring all grade school boys to be armed with knives at all times. It would help identify the problems before they got to advanced weapons and teach responsibility to the rest. I am a chemical engineer. If I go bad, I won't need firearms to make the national news. Is there one shred of evidence that a person who wanted to run amok has ever been prevented from doing so by stricter gun laws? And yes, I carried a knife to school everyday as a boy and got my first rifle at the age of eight. 62 years old and haven't had the inclination to shoot up the shopping mall yet. And my guns don't spring from the closet and do it on their own.; 8/8/19, 10:01 PM
Unknown said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/8/19, 10:08 PM
narciso said...: They consider guns totems like that anti gun activist that showed at a port st. Lucie Walmart, asking for 'something that could kill 200 people'; 8/8/19, 10:09 PM
narciso said...: Interesting:

https://lauraloomer.us/2019/08/08/exclusive-peter-strzok-lawsuit-reveals-he-had-28-year-on-paper-army-career-while-working-at-fbi-cia/#.XUzkxXQpDqA; 8/8/19, 10:16 PM
J. Farmer said...: Personally, I think the arguments for or against gun control are irrelevant. The US is a country full of guns. You can't get rid of them even if you tried. How many ever red flag or background check laws they pass, it won't stop a guy from selling another guy a gun out of the back of his trunk. Go to any gun show and there are often dozens of people milling around the entrance trying to sell or buy firearms informally. Whatever restrictions you place on gun retailers will do nothing to solve the problem. Highly motivated homicidal ideologues will find a way. You pretty much have to get lucky and catch them beforehand. Otherwise, you are ultimately helpless (to the degree you do not protect yourself). That is the price we pay for living in an open society.; 8/8/19, 10:24 PM
Fen said...: In every debate there is some Righteous Dude drawing false equivalence, claiming both sides do it, both sides need to calm down, both sides have valid points.

I think they do it to virtue signal they are a Wise Solomon, objective non-partisan and above the fray.

Or maybe tbey are concern trolling - I know if I was a Gun Control Nazi, I would welcome the opportunity to pretend to be a moderate, I would welcome the argument that I both sides have a valid point (since I have none, I lose nothing).

Hey "Ken", do you mind if I fuck you? No? Now calm down, let's both be reasonable and compromise: how about you give me a blowjob instead? That seems fair.; 8/8/19, 10:25 PM
J. Farmer said...: Apropos of nothing...

I grew up in a cul-de-sac of four homes. Among the households, there were seven male children. I was the oldest but all the others were within five years of my age. The families were cordial and neighborly but we otherwise had no social interaction. I did not interact with any of the children in my neighborhood, only classmates and numerous cousins. Over time I came to find out that four out of the seven males were gay, including two brothers who lived across the street. I ran into one in a gay bar in my early 20s, and the other two my mother told me about.; 8/8/19, 10:28 PM
Narr said...: Some friends and I like to play with the idea that gun-literacy and knowledge should be required in the public schools. Demystify the whole thing, make it all as glamorous as shop class, every teenager would know how to clear and lock a weapon if they have to . . .

Let them learn about guns in school, not out on the streets!

One of the ironies in our situation is that the very people who in the wet theories of the gun-grabbers would actually have to do the grabbing, substantially overlap with the staunchest 2A practitioners and defenders.

Narr
Someone observed that the 2A was -intended- to make citizens feel their own power; 8/8/19, 10:41 PM
Fen said...: "Whatever restrictions you place on gun retailers will do nothing to solve the problem. Highly motivated homicidal ideologues will find a way."

Yep. I am the guy that will travel to three separate states of the course of 5 years to purchase (with cash and in disguise) the trash bags, shovels and lye that my Bucket List demands.

I am the functional psychopath you wave hello to every morning as I help little old ladies across the street and rescue kittens out of tree tops. "No Officer, no signs. He was always such a nice man, maybe
just a little too quiet".

Case in point: remember those SCA officers who covered up for a pedophile and witness intimidated 12 year old girls from testifying? I will be gathering intel on them over the next 10 years - where they frequent, what their routine is, who they care about. I don't mind patiently waiting and planning for 10 years.

When someone like me goes dark you'll never see us coming. Hell, I'll go so far as to join the local Police force just to singe any loose threads.

You can't prepare against people like me. You'll go nuts trying. The only thing you can do is shoot back.; 8/8/19, 10:47 PM
Narayanan said...: Linked by Instapundit

https://reason.com/2017/11/14/tighter-gun-laws-will-leave-libertarians/

Educate me on this.; 8/8/19, 10:50 PM
Narr said...: J.Farmer, that's interesting. There were twenty guys in the boomer range on our street, and of maybe ten I have any notion of now, two were gay--one the known sissy, and the other one of those "Really?"s many years later.

In my highschool class of 600+ (1971) I can only think of a handful of guys who couldn't or wouldn't bother passing for straight.

Narr
Different world!; 8/8/19, 10:55 PM
readering said...: No advanced Western state has gun violence like the US. I grew up in an England where the police didn't carry handguns. Saw my first handgun on a US base. That is the mindset of folks who support gun control. Not ignorance, or lack of appreciation of liberty. Common sense. I learned to handle a .303 rifle at 14. I have nothing against guns. But people just want the US to be more like other Western countries, which are open societies.; 8/8/19, 11:00 PM
readering said...: Some people.; 8/8/19, 11:11 PM
Oso Negro said...: @readering - People want the US to be like their idea of other Western countries. Mostly they don't want the ruling class shitting on them or the monstrous history. If they did....they could move there. My nephew loves living in Vienna, and thinks he would never need a gun living there in a nice socialist country. But perhaps he hasn't spent enough time wondering why there are no Jews in Judenplatz, or considering that Jan Sobieski's winged hussars were not, in fact, mounted social workers.; 8/8/19, 11:12 PM
David in Cal said...: I am a dyed in the wool Republican, but I don''t hold Biden's gaffes against him. They're kind of charming. I don't think Biden's gaffes will hurt him, if he runs in 2020.; 8/8/19, 11:14 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: how to prevent her from shooting off her mouth

"@ChelseaClinton and I are thrilled to announce "The Book of Gutsy Women," out October 1st. It's a conversation about over 100 women who have inspired us—and narrowing it down was a process! "

does 'gutsy' mean corrupt, or blaming others for failure?; 8/8/19, 11:14 PM
William said...: Poverty, pimples, a bad home life. My high school years were spent in the bluest funk. For all my alienation and dysfunction, I never once thought of shooting up my school. This is a recent phase in the development of Western Civ. Those Columbine kids turned out to be extremely influential. I don't understand the dynamics. How does such hideous ideation occur to a couple of kids and how does it come to pass that this same evil thought now recurs so often.....They don't report on high school suicides in order to deter copycats. Perhaps they should do the same for high school shooters. If experience shows its effectiveness, maybe they can do it for all these spree killers....There's no inner need or drive that compels people to commit mass murder. It's a transient fad, like platform shoes. Who knows where these fads come from or why they fade away, but I'm pretty sure that all this saturation coverage is helping to extend their life.; 8/8/19, 11:14 PM
narciso said...: Well it was around the time the matrix came out, ironically being sons of rocket scientists theh had planned a larger casualty attack but the bombs wouldn't go off.; 8/8/19, 11:30 PM
J. Farmer said...: @readering:

No advanced Western state has gun violence like the US.

That is certainly true. But there is a racial gradient to the statistics. More than 50% of the gun homicides committed in the country are by black males, who are about 6.5% of the population. Black men are ten times more likely to die by gun homicide than whites.

The other issue is that there are hundreds of millions of guns in the US, and there is no practical way to extract them from society. The government couldn't even if it tried. Drugs are illegal and a lot of money is spent trying to enforce those laws, and yet drugs are manufactured, distributed, and sold in the country every single day. And that's even if you could make guns by and large illegal. There is little to no political will among the majority of the country with that.

These mass shootings are a symptom of much more fundamental fissures in our society. It is a very deep problem and not likely to be ameliorated by changes to the gun laws.; 8/8/19, 11:35 PM
Yancey Ward said...: People never learn- prohibition doesn't work when a large enough fraction of the population wants the product. That fraction only has to be 5 to 10% to make the prohibition fail spectacularly. I won't even support "red flag" laws at this point because the opposition isn't trustworthy- you give them the option, and they will red flag every political opponent at the drop of a hat.; 8/8/19, 11:44 PM
Gospace said...: Readering,

The police in Great Britain carry guns now. And the Brits are now banning knives because of knife violence. Some German police patrol with MP5 machine guns. If you do a quick Google search it seems most European police are trained to carry and use submachine guns. My local police and county sheriffs carry sidearms and some have shotguns locked in their vehicle. I've never seen any office in the United States on routine patrol with a long gun of any kind. But it is routine in Europe, South America and Asia to see law enforcement with long things.

And one of the things gun grabbers never want to acknowledge that's true. Break ins of occupied homes here is relatively rare compared to elsewhere. Castle doctrine, no duty to retreat in most States, and possible armed homeowners.; 8/8/19, 11:45 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Narciso,

That is an interesting article by Loomer. If Strzok really wasn't an Army Reserve officer, but only on paper, then it is likely he was CIA all along. Loomer needs to prove that, though. If she can, then it does put the lawsuit in a light I would not have expected.; 8/8/19, 11:47 PM
Big Mike said...: Go to any gun show and there are often dozens of people milling around the entrance trying to sell or buy firearms informally.

@Farmer, that may be true where you live, but I go to at least one gun show a year here in Virginia, and what you describe simply doesn’t happen, at least not at the shows I go to. Every gun I have bought at a gun show required a background check.; 8/8/19, 11:47 PM
Gospace said...: I hate typing comments on a phone. Stupid autocorrects that you don't see until after you post.; 8/8/19, 11:48 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Big Mike:

@Farmer, that may be true where you live, but I go to at least one gun show a year here in Virginia, and what you describe simply doesn’t happen, at least not at the shows I go to. Every gun I have bought at a gun show required a background check.

I am presuming the guns you bought were from the firearm dealers who paid to rent space at the show. I am talking about the informal channels that happen outside the dealers. These are the so called private exemptions. And even though many states have laws requiring background checks for private sales, they are very difficult to enforce.; 8/8/19, 11:58 PM
Jeff said...: does 'gutsy' mean corrupt, or blaming others for failure?
Maybe it means fat.; 8/9/19, 12:00 AM
Big Mike said...: @readering, on July 22, 2011, 179 people, mostly children, were shot on Utøya Island in Norway. 69 died. And I see you’ve already forgotten Charlie Hebdo.; 8/9/19, 12:01 AM
Lewis Wetzel said...: Blogger Oso Negro said...
@readering - People want the US to be like their idea of other Western countries. Mostly they don't want the ruling class shitting on them or the monstrous history.
Imagine being born to the upper middle class in America. You are taught, from birth, that it is not just your job, but your duty to shit on the lower classes.; 8/9/19, 12:03 AM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: If you want to fundamentally transform America, well, I disagree, but at least commit to doing the heavy lifting.

Propose repealing the 2nd Amendment and have some sort of strategy to, eventually, accomplish that. Don't pretend that's not what you want.; 8/9/19, 12:08 AM
Big Mike said...: @Farmer, you supercilious twit, you describe a situation that you allege to be true, but where is your proof? I am telling you that I don’t see it at the shows I attend, e,g., Dulles Expo Center.; 8/9/19, 12:11 AM
Fen said...: Imagine being born to the upper middle class in America. You are taught, from birth, that it is not just your job, but your duty to shit on the lower classes.

I'm not even sure they extend us the courtesy of such mental energy. From my experience, their attitude is "someone has to collect the weekly garbage".; 8/9/19, 12:11 AM
Fen said...: "No advanced Western state has gun violence like the US."

That is certainly true. But there is a racial gradient to the statistics. More than 50% of the gun homicides committed in the country are by black males, who are about 6.5% of the population. Black men are ten times more likely to die by gun homicide than whites.

Yep. When you remove black on black crime stats, the US levels of gun violence are actually lower than most Western nations.; 8/9/19, 12:13 AM
Michael K said...: And even though many states have laws requiring background checks for private sales, they are very difficult to enforce.

The Aurora IL shooter had a domestic violence felony conviction and still bought his gun because Illinois never did anything with the back ground checks,

Would you mind if we asked that existing laws are enforced first ?; 8/9/19, 12:18 AM
n.n said...: many states have laws requiring background checks for private sales, they are very difficult to enforce

This is why we need to legalize and normalize elective... the wicked... the Second Amendment, without judgment, without labels, and without "infringement". And, without inference of a Twilight Amendment, establishment of a Pro-Choice quasi-religion ("ethics"), and progressive liberal ideology. Until something is Planned, then for the sake of "our Posterity", there is no cause to invaded people's privacy.; 8/9/19, 12:19 AM
narciso said...: Those words you ars using
https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/intelligence/456795-schiff-intelligence-officials-retirements-a-devastating; 8/9/19, 12:21 AM
narciso said...: Brsivik was a nordic pagan, he did inspire 5he Christchurch and probably this shooter; 8/9/19, 12:22 AM
BUMBLE BEE said...: Seems unbelievable in today's climate of fear, but there were gun clubs at high schools across the country where kids put their guns in their lockers, or locked in their vehicles. Guns were sold in hardware stores. Sears, Montgomery Wards and others had their own brand names on popular arms of the day. The Russian Hoax clearly demonstrates what the framers of our country envisioned to be inevitable experiences. Another reason to thank God we have our President and the other courageous people with him. If Hillary had been elected, we'd have never known the depth of corruption. As I wrote that sentence, I realized we may never really know the depth. It is good to be old.; 8/9/19, 12:22 AM
Michael K said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/9/19, 12:25 AM
readering said...: I understand both side's arguments. As long as folks do here.; 8/9/19, 12:25 AM
Michael K said...: That is the mindset of folks who support gun control. Not ignorance, or lack of appreciation of liberty. Common sense.

readering, would you mind explaining how a gang member who was released in California's felon release program stabbed four people to death this week?

Garden Grove police arrested Zachary Castaneda, 33, for the stabbing spree that left four dead and two wounded. Police officials could not say what motivated Castaneda, a documented gang member with a criminal history, to attack people in what they said appear to be random acts of violence.; 8/9/19, 12:26 AM
n.n said...: Invading people's privacy, with hope to change criminal access, and to deny civil rights, is surely a choice that is a double-edged scalpel. We should not wield that scalpel for light and progressive causes.; 8/9/19, 12:26 AM
BUMBLE BEE said...: Great post narciso. The Russian hoax stems from a "disagreement"? Absolute power...; 8/9/19, 12:27 AM
Michael K said...: Forget it. You will never understand.; 8/9/19, 12:27 AM
Seeing Red said...: There are background checks and wait periods.; 8/9/19, 12:30 AM
narciso said...: 'Who watches the watchers' the Latin translation escapes me for now, and who are they loyal to, in the Nixon administration helms meyer et al were not loyal, general Walters may have been same with mark felt; 8/9/19, 12:33 AM
n.n said...: So, the argument of the gun control enthusiasts, is that in order to progress criminal access to guns, we need to invade people's privacy, judge and label half of the population, and deny their civil rights, while the criminals will have fast and furious access to guns, and the government will be granted liberal license to abort people's rights, one amendment, one platform, one witch (or warlock) at a time. I think a reasonable response, under human rights conventions, is to get Planned.; 8/9/19, 12:33 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: One of the differences between the US and most European countries is that governance is by consent of the governed, and it was explicitly set out in our Declaration of Independence that when that quit being the case, it is our right to change our government, and, as a last resort, we can used armed violence to effect such a change. We did it once, and will presumably do it again, if necessary.

The 2nd Amdt codified and made exp,icit the first two of the unalienable , most fundamental, rights listed in the Declaration of Independence- Life and Liberty. Bottom line for the fundamental, unalienable, right of Liberty is the right of armed overthrow of a government that has become tyrannical. Part of the justification for this can be found in the Militia Clause - since our Revolutionary War was triggered by local militias responding to the British trying to disarm the Colonists. And, indeed, the Militia clause is further argument why an AWB would be unconstitutional - since the weapons most useful to a civilian militia would be the rifles and carbines with the Same basic functionality, the same manual of arms, as the main battle rifles and carbines used by all branches of our military for the last 60 years. Precisely those weapons that the Dems so desperately want to ban as Assault Weapons.

Our Constitution is a cross generational agreement between the citizens of this country, and its government. Because it is a contract, it can be amended, but because it is multigenerational, and the foundation of our republic, changing it is intentionally difficult to change. 2/3 of Congress would need to propose an amendment changing, or abolishing the 2nd Amdt, and then 3/4 of the states would have to ratify the changes. This means that 13 out of 50 states could effectively kill such an Amendment. And, unless something far more major that the two recent shootings happens, I don’t think it likely that they get the vote of even half the states - far short of the required 3/4.

If, instead of getting the votes of 3/4 of the states, the Dems seriously try to ban, for example, AR type rifles and carbines, a large, well armed, portion of the citizenry are very likely to take violent objection to what they view as a blatant violation of the 2nd Amdt. Which means that they would be morally and Constitutionally justified in armed resistance. Which means that any succeeding attempts to disarm the citizenry would very likely be violently rejected.; 8/9/19, 12:34 AM
narciso said...: In Reagan administration there was not a few figures who were not on board with a rollback policy John Horton probably near the top but there were a analysts as well.; 8/9/19, 12:35 AM
n.n said...: No advanced Western state has gun violence like the US.

Diversity breeds adversity. Progress has meant one step forward, two steps backward.; 8/9/19, 12:36 AM
readering said...: Don't understand relevance of Castañeda who separated a security guard from his handgun somehow.; 8/9/19, 12:37 AM
Fen said...: Would you mind if we asked that existing laws are enforced first ?

Marxist: Yes. Because my goal is not to save lives, my goal is to render you defenseless.; 8/9/19, 12:38 AM
readering said...: When I attended law school iin the seventies it was uncontroversial that the second amendment and was not an individual right, with the leading US Supreme Court case from the days of Murder Inc (thirties).; 8/9/19, 12:40 AM
eric said...: "Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids."

Joe Biden tonight.; 8/9/19, 12:42 AM
Fen said...: readering: But people just want the US to be more like other Western countries, which are open societies.

Code for: I want the US to be more like the mostly-white Scandi nations.

You coming to our White Supremacy Pot Luck this month, readering? I'll need you measurements for a sheet and hood. We have a special place of honor picked out for racists like you. On horseback, under a shady tree.; 8/9/19, 12:42 AM
readering said...: Things changed starting in eighties after black Panthers and weathermen stopped being an obsession with law and order types.; 8/9/19, 12:42 AM
Fen said...: readering: When I attended law school in the seventies it was uncontroversial that the second amendment and was not an individual right

Was it still legal to whip a disobedient slave to death back then?

I remember when men were held liable for the crimes of their women.

But the Rule of Law evolved. Imagine that.; 8/9/19, 12:45 AM
readering said...: I do believe there was a correlation between lack of concern about second amendment and concerned over armed black men. And armed ethnic hoodlums in cities.; 8/9/19, 12:46 AM
readering said...: But that's not where I am coming from the correlation between gun violence and number and availability of guns period. Not ideological.; 8/9/19, 12:49 AM
readering said...: Looking forward to evolution of enlightened attitude toward gun control.; 8/9/19, 12:50 AM
narciso said...: When they went from planting molotovs to intekkmllectual demolition re the faculty lounge, and curriculum development; 8/9/19, 12:51 AM
purplepenquin said...: War on Guns will be just as effective as War on Drugs. (IE - solution be worse than the problem) And probably just as racist as well.

Gun control wasn't a concern until the Black Panthers started arming themselves...then all of a sudden there had to be laws against open carry and what-not.; 8/9/19, 12:52 AM
n.n said...: Four Dead, Two Wounded in Southern California Mass Stabbing; 8/9/19, 12:54 AM
narciso said...: Intellectual (Angela Davis, huey newton, Ayers dohrn boudin blonsky Rudd et al); 8/9/19, 12:55 AM
narciso said...: I think the Dodd act, precedes that by a few years, silly rabbit.; 8/9/19, 12:58 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Big Mike:

@Farmer, you supercilious twit,

Sweet of you to say so.

you describe a situation that you allege to be true, but where is your proof?

My own eyes for one. I have attended a number of gun shows in my home town and in East Tennessee. I come from a gun enthusiast family. People at gun shows talk to one another and invariably strike up conversations that occasionally lead to buying and selling a firearm. If I meet you at a gun show and decide to sell you a handgun for a thousand bucks, you hand me the cash, I hand you gun, that's the end of the transaction. No background check is conducted. If you simply don't believe this behavior occurs at gun shows, then I don't know what else to tell you.

I am telling you that I don’t see it at the shows I attend, e,g., Dulles Expo Center.

My response was to your point, "Every gun I have bought at a gun show required a background check." That's irrelevant because you bought the guns from licensed dealers at the show.; 8/9/19, 1:02 AM
n.n said...: the correlation between gun violence and number and availability of guns period

The correlation is not between availability and violence, but between criminal and violent progress. The question is how to deny law defying criminal activists, the drug addled, and the self-abortionists, the means and methods to abort the People and our Posterity, each other, and themselves. Unfortunately, the evolution (i.e. chaotic process) of gun control advocates has been fast and furious, ignorant and misdirected.; 8/9/19, 1:04 AM
Gospace said...: Can't post the pic that goes with it, but meme I just saw, about Britain:

Hey America *Acid attack* why don't you *gets stabbed* ban guns *nail bomb goes off* so then you'll be safe *gets hit by truck* like us?

I forgot about acid attacks in Britain and Europe, increasing in frequency (I wonder why...), bombings, which seem to be more common in Europe- for a long time, not just recently, and vehicle attacks, which Europe has seen more of than we have.

It's interesting that the very peaceful countries of Europe, for the most part, have more police per 100000 population than we do. En.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_countries_and_dependancies_by_number_of_police_officers; 8/9/19, 1:11 AM
buwaya said...: Loomer story re Peter Strzok advances the story considerably. Thank you narciso.

She makes a plausible case that Strzok was CIA, not really FBI, which was just his "cover", and moreover was in a highly secret direct action organization normally used for foreign political activities. Which is under direct control of the CIA director.

And that he coordinated with the London CIA office in person, with the now-current director of the CIA, in cooperation with British intelligence, to provide material for the FISA court and etc. in addition.

In other words the implication is that the whole Trump affair was a CIA operation directed by former CIA Director Brennan under Presidential orders. That is, that the CIA was ordered to use a unit intended for foreign political operations to manipulate domestic US politics.

Strzok may be suing, under this scenario, because his actual employer was not the FBI, and that his actions were under orders. Moreover since the suit will involve the open disclosure of his secret status a court may rule that much of what should be declassified on this affair cannot be, for that reason.

Strzok may still be acting as a CIA agent under orders, through filing this lawsuit, in order to aid the CIA to prevent declassification. Of course, this has nothing to do, now, with protecting US secrets from foreigners, as foreign intelligence agencies are as free to investigate and speculate as Loomer and co., and in a much better position to verify such related facts as they certainly have re Strzoks past activities and communications. The only purpose the CIA would have here is institutional protection, to shield their upper management.

Conspiracies cannot be avoided when one has the CIA in the mix.; 8/9/19, 1:29 AM
buwaya said...: The bigger point about the CIA involvement in this mess is that you cannot have effective constitutional government if powerful bureaucracies are able to work under secrecy, with consequent impunity, to manipulate domestic politics.

Your real ultimate masters are then likely to be the secret agencies, and your actual substantial politics are the office politics of Washington bureaucracies.; 8/9/19, 1:52 AM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: wasnt this, in part, out?

"the “joint CIA/FBI position was created by Congress in 1996” which allowed Strzok to hold both posts."

https://bigleaguepolitics.com/bombshell-peter-strzok-was-cia-and-fbi-at-the-same-time/
https://bigleaguepolitics.com/exposed-peter-strzok-grew-up-in-iran-worked-as-obama-and-brennans-envoy-to-iranian-regime/; 8/9/19, 2:17 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: Blogger Seeing Red said...
“There are background checks and wait periods”

There already are background checks for any interstate purchases (which must be done through a FFL). And any intrastate purpose from a business that is in the business of buying and/or selling firearms, must have an FFL, and perform a background check.

I don’t think that background checks are really the issue. Most purchase/sales of such requires a FFL. Part of the problem are the numerous informal temporary transfers that make things work in the gun world. For example: you take your kid shooting and hand them a gun; you hand your buddy your gun to check it out, he sights a distant object, then hands it back; you trade guns at the range; you hand your hunting rifle to your hunting buddy to climb over a fence; etc. You might say that the law would never intrude like that. But there are state laws on the books that do just that - that criminalize just those sorts of informal transactions. Remember, we are dealing with gun grabbers here who don’t understand the gun world, and would be happy with those results if they did understand.

Another facet is that in rural America, guns are tools, and treated like tools. That means trading. A lot of trading. For example, you might trade a cheap handgun for a chainsaw one day, and a nice rifle for an ATV the next. Several years ago, when I was new to this area, I was selling a Polaris ATV. Better than half the offers I got had a gun in the mix, along with some cash. The deal I ended up taking included a .40 H&K USP Compact handgun. I was disappointed when I had to take the Polaris back, and he wanted too much for the gun.

I should also note that because of that, along with a general paranoia, and dislike of too much authority, everyone I know has one or more guns that the authorities couldn’t trace to them, if their lives depended on it. As a retired lawyer, I would never condone that sort of thing, of course. But I think the general idea is that you need a gun or two left after a tragic boating accident loses you the rest of your guns.; 8/9/19, 4:43 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: “When I attended law school iin the seventies it was uncontroversial that the second amendment and was not an individual right, with the leading US Supreme Court case from the days of Murder Inc (thirties).”

That interpretation was at odds with the historical record. But there really wasn’t any Supreme Court precedent that explicitly determined it to be a collective right, so, based on a lot of research, notably by Eugene Volokh, and several others, that went through hundreds of years of state and federal cases, laws, and constitutions, the Supreme Court was able to show definitively that it never had been a collective right (despite what the progressives like Wilson, and socialists like FDR, had tried to make people think) in the Heller decision. Part of the problem had been a misunderstanding of the Militia Clause. Heller pointed out that it was a prefatory clause that helped justified, but did not limit, the operative clause. And partly it had misunderstood what was meant by Militia (and it being well regulated). The model was not the National Guard, but rather the Minute Men who fought at Concord. This is now well reasoned, well supported, black and white Supreme Court precedent. Sure, a future Supreme Court could overturn that decision, but right now, it wouldn’t be without bloodshed. It would fit right into my previous point of our Declaration of Independence justifying armed rebellion when the government becomes too tyrannical.; 8/9/19, 5:06 AM
gilbar said...: so, remember what we ALL Want!
LESS restrictions on border crossing (heck, NO restrictions on border crossing!!)
LESS restrictions on proof of citizenship
LESS restrictions on voter registration
LESS restrictions on drug usage

MORE restrictions on tobacco usage
MORE restrictions on gun ownership
MORE restrictions on property usage
MORE restrictions on business owners

What do we Want? NO BORDERS! NO WALL NO USA, AT ALL!!!
When do we want it NOW!!!; 8/9/19, 5:19 AM
tim maguire said...: In the late 70’s, at 12, I earned my sharpshooter merit badge at the gun range at Boy Scout camp in New York.; 8/9/19, 5:20 AM
tim in vermont said...: "In the late 70’s, at 12, I earned my sharpshooter merit badge at the gun range at Boy Scout camp in New York.”

That’s probably the only merit badge I ever earned. Camp Seneca in Upstate New York.; 8/9/19, 5:21 AM
tim in vermont said...: "I do believe there was a correlation between lack of concern about second amendment and concerned over armed black men”

The second amendment is what allowed Harriet Tubman to be armed. Condoleezza Rice was a. child when the Klan was riding around the south and she defends 2A on those very grounds.

Harriet Tubman was a remarkable woman who exercised the right to keep and bear arms frequently,” Gottlieb noted. “Frankly, gun rights activists are delighted that her memory and contributions are being honored with this choice.

“We also understand that Eleanor Roosevelt’s image will appear on the back of the $5 bill,” he added. “It is widely known that Mrs. Roosevelt, while she was First Lady and afterwards into the 1950s when she traveled and promoted civil rights, carried a pearl-handled Smith & Wesson revolver.. - PersonalDefenseWorld.com; 8/9/19, 5:32 AM
Jersey Fled said...: With the release of the Bruce Ohr 302 report it's becoming even more clear that there was collusion between the DNC, Clinton campaign, U.S intelligence agencies, DOJ, State Department, foreign individuals, and foreign governments to get Hillary elected and once that failed, to get Trump removed from office.

It's as simple as that.; 8/9/19, 5:33 AM
Jersey Fled said...: But of course our usual lefty trolls want to change the subject to gun control.; 8/9/19, 5:34 AM
tim in vermont said...: People who think rights like free speech and self protection are for some and not for others maybe should think about finding a more amenable country where those rights have already been taken away. Maybe the UK?; 8/9/19, 5:34 AM
gilbar said...: Snopes sets the record "Straight"!
Claim:
FBI agent Peter Strzok II grew up in Iran; had a father who engaged in clandestine activities overseas under the guise of doing charitable work;
Rating: Unproven

The claim that Strzok “grew up” in Iran is an overstatement. The Strzoks moved there while Strzok Sr. was serving in the Army Corps of Engineers...

The same article said that Strzok Sr. was then considering taking a job in Saudi Arabia. It’s unclear whether he did or not. If the Strzok family did move to Saudi Arabia, it was for a very short period of time, given that Strzok Sr. accepted a job with the international aid organization Catholic Relief Services (CRS) in 1980 and relocated his family to Upper Volta (a country in Africa now known as Burkina Faso). The Strzoks would be there for three years.
As for his schooling, the younger Strzok attended the American School in Tehran (where his mother also taught), as claimed. We’ve not been able to confirm that he attended school in Saudi Arabia.

There you have you conspiracy freeks! Snopes (as USUAL) sets the record STRAIGHT!

Y'all claimed that Strzok went to school in Iran: He DID, but only as a boy
Y'all claimed that he then went to Saudi Arabia; His dad DID, but You can't prove he went with
Y'all Claimed that his dad spied overseas under the guise of doing charitable work
BULL! he worked for the US Army overseas; under the guise of doing charitable work
YOU CAN'T (WON'T!) get the CIA to admit that his dad worked for them, thus
THIS IS UNPROVED!!!; 8/9/19, 5:36 AM
tim maguire said...: AAT said...
"In the late 70’s, at 12, I earned my sharpshooter merit badge at the gun range at Boy Scout camp in New York.”

That’s probably the only merit badge I ever earned. Camp Seneca in Upstate New York.

Camp Crosset Lake. Which sadly no longer exists.; 8/9/19, 5:36 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: “Looking forward to evolution of enlightened attitude toward gun control”

I agree. I would start with eliminating the restrictions and taxes on devices designed to protect hearing. The regulation on silencers, etc was added to the NFA without any comment or debate. It is a health issue, with no real functional justification, as some here have testified.

I would also repeal the limitations on machine guns. They were regulated, in the Gangster Era, by the NFA, and then several decades ago, the registry of civilian machine guns was closed. Constitutionally, the machine gun ban might have been weakly justified because at the time of the NFA, machine guns were not in common use by the general military. Most soldiers were still carrying and shooting semiautomatic battle rifles. Then WW II intervened, and the Germans started generally issuing what are now known as Assault Rifles - select fire rifles of an intermediate caliber. We followed suit, with the M14 in the 1950s, and M16 in the early 1960s. Which, along with a shortened, carbine, version (M4) remains our main battle rifle to this date. Most every frontline, and many rear echelon, military service person, over the last 60 years, has been trained on, and was issued a select fire version of the civilian semiautomatic AR-15. Tens of millions of them. Yet, despite the historical roots of the 2nd Amdt, select fire firearms are unavailable to most of the public.

Meanwhile, many police have been issued machine guns, often surplus M16s and M4s from the military. Except that in this county, instead of a shotgun, some of the Sheriffs deputies also carry a scoped M14 for longer distance shooting, or use against large animals, such as black or brown bears. (I don’t see the need for select fire there, but they have it, in case they face a horde of zombie bears). And, thanks esp to the left’s insistence on open borders, machine guns, esp AK-47s and M16s (curtesy of the Mexican Army, curtesy of our own govt), are flooding in, smuggled in along with the drugs, sex slaves, and illegal aliens. Up until fairly recently, machine guns were rare in criminal hands, because they were rare in civilian hands. No longer. Not common yet, but getting there.

And that means that the only people deprived of machine guns are law abiding civilians, for the most part. The group of people who were supposed to be protected by the 2nd Amdt.; 8/9/19, 5:38 AM
tim in vermont said...: On November 22, 2016, Bruce Ohr said that “reporting on Trump’s ties to Russia were going to the Clinton Campaign, Jon Winer at the U.S. State Department and the FBI.”

Trump has really gone into the belly of the beast in this fight.; 8/9/19, 5:41 AM
tim in vermont said...: What kills me is that the very people who have spent decades decrying the CIA’s involvement in the politics of this country and that are perfectly comfortable with spies trying to pick our leaders in soundproof rooms in Langley, Virginia; 8/9/19, 5:43 AM
Jersey Fled said...: BTW the judge in the Russian hacker case, in publically released transcripts, has threatened to hold Mueller and his prosecutors in contempt if they continue to make public statements stating that the hacker groups acted under the direction of the Russian government WHEN THEY SUBMITTED NO EVIDENCE IN THE CASE ITSELF THAT THIS WAS THE CASE!; 8/9/19, 5:46 AM
tim in vermont said...: Had the information about Trump been true, it would have been justified to take it from any source that had it, but since it was all bullshit, it’s amazing to me that people feel absolutely no shame at taking the country off of a two year distraction over unfounded campaign smears from a woman who didn’t have the class to concede she had lost. Reports were that she was too drunk to concede on election night, reality is she never conceded except in the most pro-forma way, keeping her machine fighting.; 8/9/19, 5:49 AM
tim in vermont said...: “HEN THEY SUBMITTED NO EVIDENCE IN THE CASE ITSELF THAT THIS WAS THE CASE!”

Mueller lied to Congress as well, when he said that his press conference had nothing to do with being ordered by a judge to clarify, in this case change, his statements about the Russians; 8/9/19, 5:51 AM
tim in vermont said...: "NPR is a public service news organization. We are a trusted source of information for millions of Americans and we take this responsibility very seriously, as we did in this coverage.” - NPR

By “Americans” they mean Democrats.; 8/9/19, 5:57 AM
gilbar said...: AAT said...
What kills me is that the very people who have spent decades decrying the CIA’s involvement in the politics of this country and that are perfectly comfortable with spies trying to pick our leader

In the Immortal words of S. E. Hinton: That was Then, This is Now; 8/9/19, 6:03 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: https://reason.com/2017/11/14/tighter-gun-laws-will-leave-libertarians/

“Educate me on this”

Fairly simple. Divide the population into conservatives, liberals, and libertarians. Libertarians are currently the most heavily armed. Pass strict gun control, and the conservatives will give up their guns out of societal obligation. Liberals will give up their (few) guns because they are good at obeying orders. Libertarians are going to maybe turn in one or two, but hide the rest. And, ultimately, some of them are going to start engaging in armed civil disobedience when the govt comes around trying to enforce their gun laws, and seize their guns.

I keep hearing that the number who would be willing to go to the mattresses to protect their gun rights is low. But I don’t think so. Throughout much of this country, gun control is unpopular, and esp unpopular with a loud, vocal, libertarian, group. That means that the Feds, throughout most of the country, geographically, would be on their own. No state or local help disarming their neighbors. No National Guard troops. Figure under 100k federal LEOs to disarm 100 million American gun owners. A 1% noncompliance rate would be 10 people shooting back. But those federal LEOs have homes and families, and when they start killing civilians for their guns, their own homes and families aren’t going to be safe. So, for the most part, they will do what civil servants do so frequently, they will keep their heads down go through the motions, and not put themselves in that much danger. From the point of view of the resistance, dying a pointless death is unattractive. But dying to bring the situation to the impasse I just outlined is much easier to justify.; 8/9/19, 6:09 AM
stevew said...: If we are going to have a national conversation about common sense gun control I want to talk about so-called Red Flag laws. Will these preemptive enforcement rules be applied uniformly to all people in the US or will there be exceptions/exclusions? For example, how many of the 2019 mass shooting perpetrators (146 and counting) would have been targeted and stopped before committing the shooting?; 8/9/19, 6:14 AM
Fen said...: Looking forward to evolution of enlightened attitude toward gun control.

Well, you can start by teaching your side the difference between semi and auto, the difference between clips and magazines, the reasons why you might need more than 10 round mags, and that "that shoulder thing that pops up and fires anti-tank missiles" is actually just a sling keeper.

Start there.

And these are the people who claim to have "common sense" ideas on gun control (which is a false appeal anyway, No True Scotsman - and a tell that their ideas don't have enough logic and merit to stand on their own); 8/9/19, 6:18 AM
Fen said...: Will these preemptive enforcement rules be applied uniformly to all people in the US or will there be exceptions/exclusions?

They will be enforced against people the Twitter Mob says make them feel "unsafe".

I predict every veteran with anything resembling PTSD will have a tragic boating accident. I don't have any medical issues akin to that (surprise!) and I am already making plans to replace my registered firearms with shadow weapons that don't exist on paper. All this law will accomplish is to move millions of firearms underground. Nice job.; 8/9/19, 6:22 AM
alanc709 said...: Wonder what will happen when more 2nd Amendment "Sanctuary Cities" begin happening, in protest of red flag laws. Several communities in Washington state refused to enforce new legislation regarding gun control. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/26/washington-state-gun-laws-law-enforcement-rural; 8/9/19, 6:34 AM
William said...: In the news this morning, they talked about two crazies going to WalMart to act out. I'm sure this has something to do with all the publicity surrounding the previous shooting at WalMart. WalMart might soon become one of those places like schools where they have to conduct periodic evacuation drills. I don't know about gun control, but we do need some kind of publicity control regarding these mass shootings. The saturation coverage of these shootings might itself be a cause of future incidents......From what I've read, nearly all of the mass shootings are done with guns legally obtained. The drive by and criminal shootings in contradistinction are done with illegal firearms. I don't think proposed gun control laws will have much effect on either problem. Still, crazy people with access to firearms can cause catastrophic damage. There needs to be increased vigilance. There must be some kind of warning signs before someone becomes a mass murderer.; 8/9/19, 6:42 AM
iowan2 said...: readering said...
I understand both side's arguments. As long as folks do here.

You and President Trump. Logic demands I identify you as a White Supremacist; 8/9/19, 6:50 AM
Robert Cook said...: "I keep trying to understand how otherwise intelligent people insist on blaming inanimate objects for human behavior. I do understand blame shifting. As a chemical plant manager, I noted that workers would blame equipment for their own carelessness or mistakes. One fellow fell off the bottom rung of a ladder and bruised his foot. But I knew very well that if you were using proper three-point contact descending the ladder, you would not fall. Still, he blamed the ladder. People are insisting on blaming guns for the mass shootings that the media bother to report. By this train of logic, we might blame Pearl Harbor on the Japanese aircraft carriers, or blame the invasion of Poland on the Panzers. Mao himself noted that he has "millet plus rifles". Do we blame the millet or the rifles for his atrocities? If you can first blame the gun, not the wielder, you can invest any mechanical object with agency."

Your belabored and obtuse plaint purposely misses the real (and obvious) point: no one says guns kill people absent human agency, quite the opposite: it is the ease with which virtually anyone can obtain semi-automatic weapons and caches of ammunition that enables disturbed persons to arm themselves like one-person armies and commit massacres in mere minutes. (And, as we see, the USA has no shortage of disturbed people with violent intentions, including among the citizenry.) These disturbed persons might still kill others if they lacked ready access to such weapons, but it would be more difficult, if not impossible, for them to kill as many, as quickly, with as little effort, before they could be stopped.

On the other hand, our Second Amendment guarantees our right to obtain and possess firearms. So, there is a tension between the Second Amendment and the reality of gun violence in our country. We need to have a national (or state by state) discussion about how to reconcile our right to own arms with reasoned approaches to mitigating the gun violence. Bipolar arguments by extremists on either side of the argument are simply noise, and do not accomplish anything.; 8/9/19, 7:03 AM
Robert Cook said...: "I grew up in a cul-de-sac of four homes. Among the households, there were seven male children. I was the oldest but all the others were within five years of my age. The families were cordial and neighborly but we otherwise had no social interaction. I did not interact with any of the children in my neighborhood, only classmates and numerous cousins. Over time I came to find out that four out of the seven males were gay, including two brothers who lived across the street. I ran into one in a gay bar in my early 20s, and the other two my mother told me about."

Now we know! It's something in the water!; 8/9/19, 7:07 AM
Hagar said...: Readering is full of it.
I grew up in small-town Norway following WWII, when the Germans had already done the best job they could confiscating guns of whatever kind from the civilian population.
The most popular sport next to soccer- and almost all young men played on amateur teams - was target shooting with rifles (Krag-Jørgensen in 6.5x55 "Swedish"), and the shooters normally owned several. Handguns were supposed to be prohibited, but in my high school graduating class of about 30, two guys were known to have at least 5 handguns between them. If high school kids could get them, I assume handguns were common regardless of what the laws and regulations. The quite respectable young doctor who rented an apartment in our house owned two. And so on. And of course, there were still a lot of Sten guns, German Mausers, and other WWII surplus guns floating around.
I have no reason to believe that this was not a fairly normal situation across the country.
I don't think the situation in Britain would be all that different. Readering must just have grown up in a faithful "liberal" family and blind to life around him. "Pauline Kael syndrome" so to speak.; 8/9/19, 7:10 AM
Robert Cook said...: "These mass shootings are a symptom of much more fundamental fissures in our society. It is a very deep problem and not likely to be ameliorated by changes to the gun laws."

This is true. This "great" country of ours, the "greatest" in the world today or in history, is driving a lot of people murderously (or suicidally) crazy. There is a malignant pathology at work in our culture that will keep killing us.; 8/9/19, 7:12 AM
iowan2 said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/9/19, 7:23 AM
Tank said...: Andrew said...

@Tank,

No offense I hope. I didn't realize you had linked to Biden's quote.

No worries brother, great minds...and all that.; 8/9/19, 7:24 AM
iowan2 said...: readering said...
But that's not where I am coming from the correlation between gun violence and number and availability of guns period. Not ideological.

Correlation. Not causation. You stumbled into the truth.

I have made my home in 4 different locations in Iowa, so far. At one time I lived in a hotspot for private pilots. There were eight, 4 seaters with their own grass strips in a 6 mile radius. I could fly anywhere on a moments notice for the price of fuel.

Today I live in a gun hot spot. I know personally, well enough sit down at the local fair beer tent for a couple of hours to shoot the breeze, 6 families that own more than 50 weapons I know three more families that own in excess of 50 assault weapons. Ammunition, gun powder( they all load their own)? I won't even give you a number because its not believable to the uninformed. (as an aside, all of the people have built at least one gun from scratch with no serial number. 100% legal)

The point is, I have never lived in such a heavily armed area before, and have never felt more safe. The only shootings that happen around here are done by the those running the local drug trade. Those are Hispanic and White druggies. If you stay out of their way you don't even know they exist. (and are kept in check because the "good guys with guns" is as real here as "Iowa nice".; 8/9/19, 7:28 AM
Jeff said...: We need to have a national (or state by state) discussion about how to reconcile our right to own arms with reasoned approaches to mitigating the gun violence.
We had that discussion. In 1789.; 8/9/19, 7:49 AM
Hagar said...: @Iowan2,
Your neighbors do not own "assault weapons." Assault weapons by definition are capable of automatic fire and such weapons have been illegal for civilians to own since 1935.

I notice this generally in the media. Even Fox have given up on distinguishing between automatic and semi-automatic fire and have taken to use the term "assault weapons" for the "Di-Fi scary-looking" guns. Adopt the language of the opposition, and their thinking comes along with it.; 8/9/19, 8:03 AM
Rusty said...: "Your belabored and obtuse plaint purposely misses the real (and obvious) point: no one says guns kill people absent human agency, quite the opposite: it is the ease with which virtually anyone can obtain semi-automatic weapons and caches of ammunition that enables disturbed persons to arm themselves like one-person armies and commit massacres in mere minutes"

I'll tell you what I told PacWest. If you are sincere in your argument, then you need to go to a gun store and ask what it takes to purchase a firearm. Then come back and we'll discuss how easy it is.
Deal?; 8/9/19, 8:07 AM
Robert Cook said...: "Your neighbors do not own 'assault weapons.' Assault weapons by definition are capable of automatic fire and such weapons have been illegal for civilians to own since 1935."

Rhetorical bullshit. Semi-automatic weapons are assault weapons. Connor Betts recently killed nine people and injured over 20 people in under 60 seconds with one of your allegedly non-assault weapons.; 8/9/19, 8:45 AM
Michael K said...: Semi-automatic weapons are assault weapons.

Yes, I have my assault pistol in my car. Have you ever touched a gun ?; 8/9/19, 8:53 AM
Robert Cook said...: "'We need to have a national (or state by state) discussion about how to reconcile our right to own arms with reasoned approaches to mitigating the gun violence.'
We had that discussion. In 1789."

In a representative republic, (allegedly), the "conversation" about how society should be managed never ends. This is why the founders provided a means to amend the constitution (not that the only way to change how society is managed requires amending the Constitution).; 8/9/19, 8:58 AM
Rusty said...: " Semi-automatic weapons are assault weapons."
so you're not sincere?

"In a representative republic, (allegedly), the "conversation" about how society should be managed never ends. This is why the founders provided a means to amend the constitution (not that the only way to change how society is managed requires amending the Constitution)."

Hence the second amendment. My rights are too important to entrust to you.; 8/9/19, 9:08 AM
Robert Cook said...: "Yes, I have my assault pistol in my car. Have you ever touched a gun?"

I have touched guns, but I have never fired a gun. What's your point?; 8/9/19, 9:14 AM
Robert Cook said...: "Hence the second amendment."

And the second amendment could be superseded by a new amendment if sufficient numbers of Americans wanted to rescind or alter the second amendment as currently stated. (None of us living today will ever see such an amendment, so you don't need to worry about giving up your guns.); 8/9/19, 9:17 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: @Cook - Yes, the 2nd Amdt could be modified or repealed. That takes 2/3 of Congress and 3/4 of the states. For the foreseeable future, you aren’t going to get the votes of even half the states. Come back to us when you have the votes of 38 states to repeal or amend the 2nd Amdt, and we can have your conversation.

The Bill of Rights is explicitly anti majoritarian. The majority doesn’t need protection, because they have the votes. It is minorities that need protection - in this case against the statist power grabbing of the progressive left, that knows that it will need to disarm the rest of the country before it can impose its vision of utopia forcibly over the rest of us.; 8/9/19, 9:37 AM
Hagar said...: Robert Cook glories in sticking by the platform of late 19th century socialism.
He is kind of like a small-scale ideological "Jurassic Park."; 8/9/19, 9:52 AM
readering said...: I think in the end the courts will reinterpret Second Amendment. Again.; 8/9/19, 9:56 AM
Robert Cook said...: "@Cook - Yes, the 2nd Amdt could be modified or repealed. That takes 2/3 of Congress and 3/4 of the states. For the foreseeable future, you aren’t going to get the votes of even half the states. Come back to us when you have the votes of 38 states to repeal or amend the 2nd Amdt, and we can have your conversation."

Yes, as I stated.

"The Bill of Rights is explicitly anti majoritarian. The majority doesn’t need protection, because they have the votes. It is minorities that need protection - in this case against the statist power grabbing of the progressive left, that knows that it will need to disarm the rest of the country before it can impose its vision of utopia forcibly over the rest of us."

Our nation is a police state today, and not because of any imagined "power grabbing progressive left," who are represented scarcely at all in our state or federal governments.; 8/9/19, 10:24 AM
Hagar said...: I think in the end the courts will reinterpret Second Amendment. Again.

This will be a very bad development since the citizens then will go to disobeying the courts and "the Law" itself, not just officialdom.; 8/9/19, 10:41 AM
Hagar said...: I will go along with replacing Andrew Jackson with Harriet Tubman on the 20 dollar bill, provided it is with the engraving of her carrying a shotgun on the "underground railroad."; 8/9/19, 10:45 AM
tim in vermont said...: "I think in the end the courts will reinterpret Second Amendment. Again.”

Because a unanimous decision that it is an individual right is not strong enough.; 8/9/19, 10:49 AM
Narr said...: Bottom line so far (after RC@1024):

People who are not "power grabbing progressive left" shouldn't have and don't need guns, since we are a police state already, thanks to powerful people who are NOT "power grabbing progressive left."

Narr
Have I got that right?; 8/9/19, 10:53 AM
Robert Cook said...: "Have I got that right?"

No.; 8/9/19, 11:29 AM
Original Mike said...: "Rhetorical bullshit. Semi-automatic weapons are assault weapons."

I can see someone's never gone hunting.; 8/9/19, 11:41 AM
Robert Cook said...: "I can see someone's never gone hunting."

I have not, for either game or humans.; 8/9/19, 11:56 AM
Original Mike said...: "I have not, for either game or humans."

Maybe you should have the humility to recognize what you don't know.; 8/9/19, 12:01 PM
Robert Cook said...: "Maybe you should have the humility to recognize what you don't know."

What do I not know? A weapon that can fire rounds of sufficient number and with sufficient rapidity to kill or injure up to 30 people in 30 seconds is an assault weapon, whether acknowledged as such or not. To say it's not is rhetorical bullshit, (or semantic bullshit).; 8/9/19, 12:44 PM
Narr said...: OK, Robert, we are in a police state (believe me I think you are more right than wrong on that). Why would 2A-practicing citizens of any political persuasion want to give an inch to further regulation and possible confiscation?

You talk of police states, and then criticize those who insist on their gun rights?

Narr
Leave aside practicalities; 8/9/19, 1:12 PM
Gospace said...: Robert Cook said...
"Maybe you should have the humility to recognize what you don't know."

What do I not know? A weapon that can fire rounds of sufficient number and with sufficient rapidity to kill or injure up to 30 people in 30 seconds is an assault weapon, whether acknowledged as such or not. To say it's not is rhetorical bullshit, (or semantic bullshit).

A 500 PSI air compressor, air storage tank, ball valve, appropriate connections to a 4" schedule 80 PVC pipe loaded with ball bearings, and I can take out 30 people in one shot, no explosives of any kind needed.

There are lots of other ways to do it. BTW, you can't injure or kill 30 people with ANY handgun or rifle, even a fully automatic one, in 30 seconds unless they're all packed together so any direction you shoot you hit someone without aiming. But in that situation, if you want to cause lots of casualties, bombs are much easier. Remote detonation and you can walk away.; 8/9/19, 1:16 PM
iowan2 said...: Of course I am wrong. The AR 15 platform is not an assualt weapon. From the standard of leathality, there is no difference, save, cosmetics, from a semi automatic rifle. As to the Dayton murderer he customized a pistol. Different barrel, stock, and the 100 round magazine had to also be customized. All of those parts can be ordered, or picked up at a local gun shop from stuff off the shelf. No Background checks required. As I just mentioned, you can order an unfinished lower, Do some handy man drilling and tapping, and start adding the components to the lower(thats the part the serial number would be stamped on) and over a weekend, you have built your own gun, all legal.

This just illustrates the lefts screeches "to do something" are nothing but cover to advance the ball of gun consfiscation.; 8/9/19, 3:56 PM
Rusty said...: RE Cook @ 9:17
Which would still not obviate the inherent right of self defense.; 8/9/19, 4:16 PM
Robert Cook said...: "OK, Robert, we are in a police state (believe me I think you are more right than wrong on that). Why would 2A-practicing citizens of any political persuasion want to give an inch to further regulation and possible confiscation?

"You talk of police states, and then criticize those who insist on their gun rights?"

I haven't criticized anyone who insists on their gun rights. It is one of our constitutional rights, after all. I merely point out that there is a serious problem of gun violence in our country, and some means must be found to try to deal with that. I don't know what form any possible solution would take, but it is not invalid to at least discuss the whether there should be any greater controls placed on the sale and purchase of assault weapons. I don't assume the correct answer is automatically to ban their sale, but I don't assume that wouldn't be a solution, either.

Perhaps a more effective line of inquiry would be to look at the reasons we have so many angry loons lethally flipping out so often. What is wrong in our culture that drives people to such crazed and desperate acts of nihilism?; 8/9/19, 6:05 PM
Gospace said...: The big problem there, Robert Cook, is you pretty much defining any weapon you don't like as an assault weapon.

It's extremely difficult for a CITIZEN to legally obtain a fully automatic weapon, which is the military definition for an assault weapon.

You can, however, buy a Gatling gun, with a rate of fire that puts FAWs to shame. Emptyshell is still working on the prototype of the XM556, and it looks like something I would put on my Christmas list. There are Civil War style Gatlings a available for sale also. Carriage or tripod mount.

The other weapon gun grabbers want to see banned is the ever infamous sniper rifle. Which is pretty much any rifle with a scope when you come right down to it. And for good marksmen, iron sights will do.; 8/9/19, 7:33 PM
Narr said...: Fair enough, Robert. I don't have answers to any of those questions either.

Narr
Especially the big cultural ones; 8/9/19, 8:37 PM
Fen said...: A weapon that can fire rounds of sufficient number and with sufficient rapidity to kill or injure up to 30 people in 30 seconds is an assault weapon

LOL. I can kill 15 people in 30 seconds with my 54# Traditional Recurve Bow. At 30 yards.; 8/9/19, 10:14 PM
Fen said...: "Semi-automatic weapons are assault weapons."

Please learn the difference between the anus and the uterus when calling for changes to reproductive rights.

The 9mm pistol your police office carries is semi-automatic. It's hardly an "assault" weapon.

The one thing 2nd Amendment advocates are blessed with is very ignorant enemies. For as long as I can remember (40 years now?) you guys having been tripping over your ignorance every time you bring gun control up. How is it that you still can't even get the basic terminology right? If I had 40 years on a subject I'd have a Nobel by now.

Bonus round: define "assault weapon"...

(popcorn popping in background); 8/9/19, 10:20 PM