July 5, 2019

Watch Melania as the band plays the "beauty of the lilies Christ" verse of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" at yesterday's salute to America.

I was waiting to see if the band — I think it's the United States Marine Band ("The President's Own") — would sing the strikingly religious, decisively Christian verse of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic."

There's a long pause, so you think the song might be over, but then it begins —
In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free
While God is marching on.
So I was watching very closely at this point, and I found Melania's reaction fascinating:



I'm seeing her lean toward Trump as if by magnetic force at the first line of that verse. I think she's affected hearing about Christ. She's religious (perhaps) or struck by the daring of the inclusion of forthright religion. Or maybe the words "born across the sea" felt personal to her, born overseas. Does she associate her husband with Christian religion?

Is the magnetism charisma?
Charisma (/kəˈrɪzmə/) is compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others.

Scholars in sociology, political science, psychology, and management reserve the term for a type of leadership seen as extraordinary; in these fields, the term "charisma" is used to describe a particular type of leader who uses "values-based, symbolic, and emotion-laden leader signaling."

In Christian theology, the term appears as charism, an endowment or extraordinary power given by the Holy Spirit....

The basis for modern secular usage comes from German sociologist Max Weber... "Charisma is a certain quality of an individual personality by virtue of which he is set apart from ordinary men and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional powers or qualities."
By the way, in that clip, do the singers keep the original line, "As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free," or do they change "die"? I know sometimes "die" is changed to "live," but they don't do that. I hear the "-ie" sound clearly, but with no articulation of the "d." Do they say "hie" — which means hurry — "Let us hie to make men free"?

I think if you're going to sing that verse at all and compare yourself to Christ, you need to stick with the original, "die." I can see dropping the whole verse, because it's questionable as a matter of taste, theology, and the separation of church and state. But if you're going to sing it, the best way to justify your choice is history, so hew precisely to the original text.

239 comments:

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Krumhorn said...

I was waiting to see if the band — I think it's the United States Marine Band ("The President's Own") — would sing the strikingly religious, decisively Christian verse of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic."

They're doggies. Not Marines. If for no other reason (such as collar insignias), you can tell by the crappy uniforms that the organ grinders wear with their monkeys. No Marine would be found in that carnival wear.

- Krumhorn

William said...

This item has inspired an unusual number of well informed and interesting comments. This song connects with people. They want to know more about it....In the right context and the right circumstances, I know of no song more moving. I'm not exceptionally patriotic or given to sublime emotions, but it has that effect on the listener.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

It occurs to me that Melania might be moved by the lyrics and deeply held Christian ideas in the Battle Hymn of the Republic because it may be the very first time she has heard that song.

The Battle Hymn of the Republic is a very moving song.

Coming from another culture, one where religion was suppressed, and probably was not well versed in American History of the Civil War...it might have come as a moving surprise to her that such religious sentiments can be expressed freely at a Governmental function.

Most college students know next to nothing about the Civil War. The spout off about it. But know nothing. Why should we expect Melania to know more?

wildswan said...

Remember all the death threats against Trump and Melania. She has to have asked herself whether and why she would take the risk, whether she would "die to make men free." Probably she's had her hours and her questions and that song reminded her of her decision. That's how I interpreted her change of expression and leaning toward Trump. Just because she wears high heels and looks great all the time doesn't mean she can't think out her new position and make a moral choice.

Fernandinande said...

but don't knock a religion and then say I don't want to talk about it .

Religious nuts are among the most egotistical people around; what you really mean is that you want people to take your own personal goofy superstitions seriously because you think your goofy superstitions are special. They're not.

Big Mike said...

@Fernandistein, assholes like you give atheists like me a bad name. Some of the most evil people I've ever known (3 of the top 4) have been bible-thumping, self-aggrandizing Christians, but other than them, nearly all Christians I've known are generous, even-handed, tolerant people.

Big Mike said...

I have a related question. Does any other Christian nation have a "battle hymn"? Or is the United States unique in that respect?

wild chicken said...

Did we ever get to Charisma? Is Trump charismatic?

Sure, but you can't say it. Yet.

narciso said...

God save the queen, just right off the top. For blood thirsty besides stalin and Mao you probably have to resort to honquiing of the Taiping rebellion

Howard said...

Own your own shit, BM. Fredandgertudestein is not your problem. Besides, the world needs more assholes.

Howard said...

allahu akbar is kinda close: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takbir

Ice Nine said...

Big Mike, Not sure how a battle hymn is exactly defined but 'Deutschlandlied' (Deutschland über alles) comes to mind and might well qualify.

"Germany, Germany above all,
above all else in the world,
When it steadfastly holds together,
offensively and defensively,
with brotherhood...etc."

narciso said...

Arise children of the fatherland, doesn't lend itself to sectarian interpretations

Hagar said...

@ Big Mike
La Marseillaise is as bloody-minded as they come in the West.

narciso said...

Well now you bring it up:

https://www.lyricsondemand.com/n/nationalanthemlyrics/cubanationalanthemlyrics.html

mockturtle said...

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school
We have tortured ev'ry teacher; we have broken ev'ry rule
We have bound and gagged the principal and tossed him in the pool
Our gang is marching on!


There were several when I was growing up but I don't remember them well. One had the last two lines:

With one hand on the throttle
and another on a bottle
of Pabst Blue Ribbon beer.


mockturtle said...

Fuck you, RC. I disagree.

Me, too, Roy.

Francisco D said...

When I saw there were over 200 posts. I guessed that J.Farmer and Birkel (or someone else were having a pissing contest.

Glad that wasn't the case.

Roy Lofquist said...

Blogger rcocean said...
"Fuck you, RC. I disagree."

Please tell me which war you fought in. Give unit, position, and time in combat. I just hope you're not David French.


Sp/5 E5, US Army Security Agency, 61Jan-63Dec. Unit classified. Service in Middle East and environs. Airborne reconnaissance. Two contacts with hostile forces, three major incidents (Sahara, Khartoum, Bahrain).

David Duffy said...

"Who can recall the alternative 'Battle Hymn' lyrics that we all learned on the playground during recess??

I remember the chorus advocating shooting the teacher."

The one we sang in second grade:

"Glory Glory Hallelujah
Teacher hit me with the ruler
I hid behind the door with a loaded 44
And she didn't teach no more."

We didn't think anything of it, but I still remember it to this day.

Nichevo said...

Blogger wwww said...
Julia Ward Howe was a Unitarian by the 1840s. Living in Massachusetts. Boston. New England. Husband supported John Brown.

Massachusetts religious history: The Massachusetts Unitarians inherited the old Puritan churches and Harvard Divinity school, originally Puritan, was dominated by Unitarians by the 1830s. Oberlin College was founded and funded by Christian abolitionists. John Brown was Calvanistic, New England.

...

Speaking of Puritans, Ann Althouse boasts descent from Cotton Mather. If Cotton Mather overheard Ann talk like that, he would probably brand her on the cheek with a hot iron and pack her off to the Indians. I guess we don't brand people anymore. And, of course, in America we have the right to be evil.

After I digest my anger (and I'm not even Christian, but I am American, and I'm not a lump of dirt, so I couldn't possibly be as maliciously ignorant as she owns), all I'm left with is pity, fool that she is. Her neglecting Julia Ward Howe for Bob Fucking Dylan is on par with her family exchanging the Bible for Playboy.

What then is the rightful comeuppance for being a person who speaks and thinks like this? In her particular case, I think the sentence is to live out her life being Ann Althouse. The only trouble is that she knows what she is and has been revenging herself on society ever since she learned it.

zefal said...

Are the objective nonpartisans in the media who were/are outraged over Trump ending Ramadan dinner at the Whitehouse outraged by this religion creeping into politics yet?

Rosalyn C. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rosalyn C. said...

Donald Trump was never a politician before running for President, but at least he was a celebrity, a well known public figure by choice. He is on display by virtue of his choice and his winning the election. None of that is true for Melania, an immigrant who came to the US to work as a fashion model and a woman who married Donald Trump. I don't know that anything she had done in her life prior to the election prepared her to be First Lady, but she is an exceptionally poised woman.

There must be something surreal about those public moments when the Trumps realize the magnitude of the Presidency which is so much bigger than themselves. What I saw in Melania's eyes was her strength in balancing the overwhelming emotion of the moment and her duty to stay composed. I also saw that she and her husband are in this together.

Helenhightops said...

"Glory Glory Hallelujah
Teacher hit me with the ruler
I hid behind the door with a loaded 44
And she didn't teach no more."

We sang:

"So I bopped her on the bean with a rotten tangerine
And there ain't no teacher no more"

narciso said...

well the reclusive Thomas Pynchon, is said to be descended from on the judges at salem, his father was a bank director who went belly up in the depression, that colors his view of American society in slow learner and gravities rainbow

wbfjrr2 said...

Well, after all, it IS called The BATTLE Hymn of the Republic.

rcocean said...

"Sp/5 E5, US Army Security Agency, 61Jan-63Dec. Unit classified. Service in Middle East and environs. Airborne reconnaissance. Two contacts with hostile forces, three major incidents (Sahara, Khartoum, Bahrain)."

Thanks.

Big Mike said...

@Hagar, I thought of that one, but it's also the national anthem. We have an anthem plus a battle hymn.

The closest I can come is "Rule Britannia," which is not their anthem.

hugh42 said...

So great you are watching and thinking so closely! I would never be able to crystallize such insights. Keep it up, Ann.

rcocean said...

Eh tu, Mock turtle?

People are getting feisty today. Must be the fireworks.

Narr said...

Yeah, Althouse, who do you think you are having a blog and making people come here and read stuff they don't like, and talk smack about you and one another!?!

Shame, Prof, shame!

Narr
Yeesh AND Sheesh

Ralph L said...

I suppose I've had worse songs stuck in my head all day. Thanks a lot, Althouse.

Ray - SoCal said...

Melania with her Pope visit dress, appeared very religious to me.

mockturtle said...

Rcocean asks: Eh tu, Mock turtle?

People are getting feisty today. Must be the fireworks.


Sorry. I meant only to express my disagreement with your opinion that most people would agree with your assertion. We can agree to disagree, can we not?

Fen said...

"She was inspired to write "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" after she and her husband visited Washington, D.C., and met Abraham Lincoln at the White House in November 1861. During the trip, her friend James Freeman Clarke suggested she write new words"

I'm sure she has a problematic 20 year old tweet or somesuch that will cause Battle Hymn of the Republic to be memory-holed.

What a stupid time we live in. I told you to kill all the marxists, but noooooo....

Kirk Parker said...

Roy Loftquist,

What action did we have in Khartoum in that time frame?

Bilwick said...

I don't know why all the obfuscation about libertarianism. I get along very well practicing it. I don't aggress against others and do what I can to resist when others aggress against me. Or as the fella said, "Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff." I can only assume that people who have a problem with that want, on some level, to hurt people, and/or take their stuff.

4GivenGuy said...

I agree that the line was "die to make men free". That is what happened when over 600,000 died so that slaves could be set free.
Since the people who died lived during the period when slavery was extant, their deaths should have pretty much covered any reparations due. Anything due beyond that point should be covered exclusively by the Democrat Party, which enacted the Jim Crow laws, established the KKK and lynched blacks and Republicans.

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