July 23, 2019

"In those conditions high heat and high exercise, the body will overheat no matter how well hydrated. At at body temp of 105..."

"... Heat Stroke occurs and all manner of body systems fail. Bottom line, do not exercise in high heat days. Above 80 degrees F and 80 percent humidity and equivalent, the body cannot lose the heat it generates in exercise and will overheat. One function that goes first is judgement. We get hot and can not realize we are in danger."

A comment written by a doctor on "Hyperthermia contributed to death of woman, 32, hiking Billy Goat Trail, officials say" (WaPo). The Billy Goat trail is a 2-mile trail, and the woman had difficulty one half mile into it. She was given plenty of water — 4 bottles — one of the companions was a nurse, and 911 was called quickly. The temperature was in the high 90s, with a "feels like" temperature (including humidity) of 110 degrees.

Another commenter: "The park warned people. I was there that day and there were big signs at the Visitor Center as well as the trailheads saying to avoid the Billy Goat A trail due to the heat. Signs also advised carrying 2L water per person. A volunteer stationed at the trailhead advised people about the conditions. He said only 20% of hikers carried water. No matter how much the park warns visitors, some will walk around barricades, step over ropes, ignore signs, and blaze new trails to get around any kind of obstacle."

144 comments:

Lawrence Person said...

"80 degrees F and 80 percent humidity?"

Basically they're saying that nobody should ever exercise in Texas any time during the summer, where it regularly hits over 100°F.

Bah. Once I rode my bike when it was 109°F (I did cut my ride short). But I do admit that when I was walking to my car when it was 112°, the heat started to get to me...

Howard said...

She looked obese in the photos I saw. It's not a huge elevation trail.

Tom T. said...

This is why it's important to keep the office thermostat low.

Seriously, though, it seems like her system crashed awfully quickly. I have to wonder whether she was already dehydrated or on some kind of medication that made her especially vulnerable.

Fernandistein said...

I used to run, not jog, about 10 miles or sometimes more when it was 100 degrees in S. Arizona. I'd weigh about 7 pounds less when I got back. Age 17 - 18; my draft physical heart rate went from 45 bpm to 44 after the "stair step" test.

BarrySanders20 said...

They should, but cant, have a separate warning for overweight people. It is a risk factor.

Nonapod said...

A former NY Giant offensive guard died of heatstroke this weekend at 32 years old too.

A lot of people think heatstroke is only a real issue for the elderly.

rhhardin said...

Bike riders have their own wind, which makes "feels like" meaningless.

It's nice if the air is cooler than your body (actual temperature) if you're going to use air for cooling. If not, evaporation has to do all the work, and humidity is going to matter a lot.

My bike ride bounce-back discovery was Smart Water, far superior to plain water. I suppose the house brand electrolyes "added for taste" waters are the same. I used to do daily Sat Sun hundred mile trips in any weather.

Ficta said...

It's a fairly strenuous trail, particularly for a casual hiker. Lots of scrambling over rocks and a tiny bit of freehand climbing. I was out hiking in the same general region this weekend. It was very hot out there.

n.n said...

Basically they're saying that nobody should ever exercise in Texas any time during the summer

They issue the warning based on the so-called "precautionary principle"... The very same principle that the prophets of catastrophic anthropogenic global warming cite as justification for granting a liberal license to force a progressive leap.

Big Mike said...

They need to make people sign a waiver and send them — or their estate — a bill for any rescue.

tim maguire said...

Following rules is habit forming. Breaking them is habit forming as well.

We are conditioned to ignore warnings because there are too many and for things too petty. They treat us like we are stupid, which encourages us to do stupid things.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

2 miles? oh come on.
What I notice is all the baby-sitting by the media. It's non-stop. "Be careful!" said the nanny-state.

btw- you want to stay hydrated? Sip some electrolytes (sugar and salt) along with the water.
Your body loses those when you sweat and it's not healthy.

*brought to ya by your nanny-state baby sitter advice for the day*

KheSanh 0802 said...

Heat stroke really isn't something to joke about or take a chance on. During OCS we had a couple of 20 mile hikes postponed because of the combination of high heat and high humidity. That seemed to be the only concern for physical welfare ever exhibited at Quantico. Several times I observed candidates on the verge of heat stroke. It is so very dangerous because by the time the symptoms are clear there's a good chance the victim's brain is already at the "boiling point" and only complete immersion in an ice bath can reverse the situation. Everyone seems to understand the dangers of frostbite, but heat stroke is more dangerous and more likely to be contractedd by an act of individual stupidity such as ignoring the warnings of professionals.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Here in south Texas it’s 95+ degrees with 80+ humidity all summer long. Heat index often approaches 120. I see people out running in it all the time. I’m sure there is some level of acclimation that plays into it too.

tim maguire said...

Lawrence Person said...Bah. Once I rode my bike when it was 109°F (I did cut my ride short). But I do admit that when I was walking to my car when it was 112°, the heat started to get to me...

When I was 13, I ran the Orange Bowl Marathon. It was over 90 degrees with similar humidity. About 1/3rd of the people dropped out, but nobody died.

mockturtle said...

I've seen people get heat stroke on the golf course when others were doing fine. They need immediate medical attention and IV fluids.

Mark said...

Trust a government employee?

You must not read this blog much.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

A few years ago a local high school band director had to resign when a bunch of his kids doing summer practice (marching band stuff on blacktop in August before school starts) collapsed and went to the hospital in ambulances. He wasn’t giving them enough water breaks.

William said...

The greatest health risk is lack of exercise. Avoid excessive inertia on hot, humid days.

Menahem Globus said...

I have friends who ran the Keys 100 from Key Largo to Key West in unshaded daylight and 90+ degree heat. She was in her early fifties and she was over 65. Neither was morbidly obese.

Michael K said...

A boy scout died on a short hike near Tucson this spring. Same thing.

drank all his water and ran out,

Yancey Ward said...

I spent most of my adult life as an avid long distance runner. For me, the hard limit was an air temperature around 90 degrees- humidity wasn't a big factor since I never lived in areas where it could be 90-100 degrees with a dew point under even 50 degrees (though I have hiked extensively in areas with high heat and very low humidity). My normal 10K run would leave me at probably 4-5 pounds of water loss (I had a habit of weighing before and after the run), but I always well hydrated at the start, so I always started with an extra 2-3 pounds of water. I can tell when I am dehydrated- I get a bit of headache. I pretty much never get to that point no matter what I am doing.

Birches said...

Here in south Texas it’s 95+ degrees with 80+ humidity all summer long. Heat index often approaches 120. I see people out running in it all the time. I’m sure there is some level of acclimation that plays into it too.

I think you're right about acclimation. This is my first summer in the South and running has become more difficult than I expect. The temperature is secondary to the humidity. I've moved inside for the time being, but I see plenty of people still outside running.

Fernandistein said...

"Historically, the [135 mile] race starts at Badwater Basin in Death Valley [in July]. At 266 feet below sea level, it's the lowest place in the contiguous United States. Most of the race was within Death Valley National Park where temperatures of 120 degrees or more radiating off the black asphalt road would melt shoes and blister runners' feet."

"Citing safety concerns and the need to draft new safety rules, the National Park Service stopped issuing permits for extreme sporting events in Death Valley last year. The Badwater 135 was one casualty."

KheSanh 0802 said...

For you skeptics: the physical problem that causes heat stroke is that high humidity ( and heat) prevent the body from cooling through evaporation. It makes little difference how much water you take in - or sweat out, for that matter -if it does not evaporate off your body. Water intake, frequent rest periods in the shade if possible, and stopping whatever you are doing at the first hint of rapid heart beat or dizziness will help to avoid stroking out. Here's a good piece on the subject.

KheSanh 0802 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Birches said...

And yeah, salt and not just water is necessary to rehydrate.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Why do people take such risks? Is it worth it?

Sam L. said...

The Fool's Mantra: NOTHING can go WRONG. (And, What do these people know?)

The Minnow Wrangler said...

Of course heat stroke is a dangerous health issue, especially if you are overweight and out of shape. I'm just wondering if it wouldn't have helped the woman more to pour the water on the outside of her body instead of making her drink it. If her skin was wet and she could be fanned with clothing or other objects it seems like that would have cooled her down more effectively.

Ice Nine said...

By the looks of her, she shouldn't have been, unconditioned, on a difficult uphill hike in *good* weather. Also, resuscitating her - ie., rapidly lowering her core temperature - is more difficult because her core is significantly better insulated than a person of normal weight. I would guess that she was low on sodium as well after the dilutional effect of four bottles of water consumed in short order. A bad combination.

Jake said...

I have little respect for most doctors.

Stepper said...

Supposedly you can acclimate to hot weather, if you plan an event in hot temperature areas. I spent 10 days in a Kansas City heat wave, visiting friends & relatives, before biking across Iowa in late July. The acclimation period seemed to help, as did wearing white, long sleeved, nylon hoodies drenched with water. I recall my bike odometer, which had a thermometer too, reading 113 degrees (sensor was near the pavement).

Expat(ish) said...

Some years ago when I ran the Bright Angel trail down to the Colorado in the Grand Canyon I got stopped by a ranger half way down. But I had plenty of water, thousands of calories of carbs (mmmmmm), a reflective emergency blanket just in case, and a plan.

Oh, and it was July, so it was 55 degrees at 4am when I started an 115 at 11am when I finished.

I was in very good but not perfect shape and basically healthy. And it was dry dry dry, so sweat was pretty effective, but the last two miles in direct sunlight was very very hard.

-XC

PS - The chocolate mile from the c-store after ... heavenly!

Ice Nine said...

>>The Minnow Wrangler said...I'm just wondering if it wouldn't have helped the woman more to pour the water on the outside of her body instead of making her drink it.<<

Stripping the patient and bathing her with water is absolutely the *first* thing that should be done. That helps - if you're at the beach or near a garden hose. In the event, they had nowhere near enough water to make a difference.

RigelDog said...

Thank you for posting this article, Althouse---knowing this information might save my life. Really! I'm one of those people who gets easily overheated; always have been even when young and in fantastic physical condition. Reading this article and comments to it, I now realize that at times in the past I have suffered from heat exhaustion and never knew it. It's the strangest thing, it can creep up on me and where one day I'm fine doing an activity in high heat and humidity but another day I might get short of breath and have the sensation that I just can't "get rid of the heat." I intuit that there's some physical process going on where I "can't get rid of the heat" but didn't realize just how significant a medical event that is. I'll be more careful now about not exerting myself in high heat/humidity conditions, and as soon as I start to have those sensations, I'll stop and cool off in every way possible.

Bay Area Guy said...

It's sad but seems like really poor judgment - a junior varsity version of rich yuppies who try to scale Mt Everest, and die of alt sickness.

Lyle Smith said...

I’m like a Sherpa in the heat and humidity.

Scott M said...

I'm not doubting the wisdom of the advise in the article, but people constantly exert themselves in higher temps/higher humidity and live on just fine. Certainly, you can't take Nanuk from Anchorage and throw him on to a highway work crew in high summer Arizona, but neither can you take a Bedouin and send him to work an Alaskan fishing trawler in late fall. Not without severe physical consequences. Thing is...humans are a scrappy lot and, over time (sometimes surprisingly short), they adapt to their conditions and can persevere in the most dire of temperature variance, for example, seventy-two degrees in a Wal-Mart at midnight on Black Friday...

John henry said...

In the Navy, in the engine room, the temperature was routines 100 degrees. Sometimes hotter. We had blower ducts that would blow streams of outside air but when the air temp is 100 degrees, in Cuba, the Med, that doesn't help much. They really only had much effect under the blower and you could not stand there while working.

We were doing hard physical work on little sleep most of the time and I don't remember the heat being a problem.

We had one old salt that always wore a sweatshirt and it was always soaking wet with sweat. He claimed he was more comfortable that way.

No shorts, not even short sleeves (for safety) non-mesh ball cotton ball caps.

We drank a lot of water a lot of coffee and gobbled salt pills like M&Ms.

Uncomfortable sure but I don't ever remember any problems from heat.

John Henry

~ Gordon Pasha said...

"Nature doesn't care if you're having fun." ~ Larry Niven

Ralph L said...

I hiked the lower section of the Billy Goat Trail many times in the 1980's, but not when it was much over 90 and then late in the afternoon. One weekend when it was fairly crowded there was a naked couple having sex on a boulder between the trail and the river. I don't think they were visible from the trail itself, which winds through yuge rocks and trees, but the kayakers got an eyeful.

mockturtle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mockturtle said...

It's this global warming. It's a killer./s

Francisco D said...

Here in southern Arizona we have a lot of great hiking trails and a lot of intense, dry heat.

Most of the people we meet hiking seem to have good common sense. However, now and then we see people who are unprepared. We have started to warn the novices that they should probably turn back if half their water is gone.

reader said...

I see people walking/jogging their dogs in high heat (90+) all summer long. Best way to cool a dog quickly. Wet their paw pads, ear flaps, armpits, and between their hind legs. I always carry water when I walk and have had to help people with their dogs.
Easy test- if you can’t hold the back of your hand on the pavement for 5 to 10 seconds don’t walk your dog on it.

Nice said...

I read an article that said drinking too much water has risks as well. Your body cannot process large amounts of water in short intervals, or some such. Is hiking mandatory? Perhaps there are other ways of seeing nature.

I enjoy the 1-minute hikes on Youtube. I know my limits.

The Minnow Wrangler said...

John Henry said, "We had one old salt that always wore a sweatshirt and it was always soaking wet with sweat. He claimed he was more comfortable that way. "

I knew a couple of guys who worked on a roofing crew and they said the Mexicans they worked with told them to wear long sleeve cotton shirts for the same reason. Probably doesn't work if there is no breeze but otherwise it makes sense.

Ralph L said...

Odd that the article says "contributed to." I guess official cause of death was a heart attack.

Fritz said...

When we started yesterday's 5 mile dog walk it was about 85 F and % humidity. When we finished it was closer to 95 / 65. It took a while to get re-hydrated.

Temperatures dropped to 70 F today, but it's still humid.

Obadiah said...

Just reading the comments here tells you why people ignore the signs. High heat/humidity is a higher risk for some people than others. Additional factors add risk like obesity and being out of condition. People are lousy at judging risk, but I wouldn't want to live in a society where other people get to tell me how much risk I am allowed to take. Except my mom, but I didn't listen to her warnings much either.

Oso Negro said...

Blogger Inga...Allie Oop said...
Why do people take such risks? Is it worth it?


That's how I feel about voting for Democrats.

mockturtle said...

I read an article that said drinking too much water has risks as well. Your body cannot process large amounts of water in short intervals, or some such.

Too much water too fast can dilute your body's electrolytes, e.g., sodium, potassium, etc. and can be fatal. People have died from hyponatremia, or low blood sodium.

Gospace said...

John henry said...
In the Navy, in the engine room, the temperature was routines 100 degrees. Sometimes hotter. We had blower ducts that would blow streams of outside air but when the air temp is 100 degrees, in Cuba, the Med, that doesn't help much. They really only had much effect under the blower and you could not stand there while working.


Let's face reality. Us people who work or have worked in engine and boiler rooms are a different breed. I'm simply grateful I didn't do it when the boilers were coal fired. The men who did that were real men.

MadisonMan said...

80 F with 80% RH is a dewpoint of 74. Uncomfortable, yes, but acclimatable, if you don't live your life in a/c all the time.

Here in south Texas it’s 95+ degrees with 80+ humidity

Never happens. That's a dewpoint in the high 80s. Nope. You might have an 80-100% RH in the morning, but then it warms up and the relative humidity drops.

Murph said...

People fail to engage their common sense. ...or maybe they simply lack common sense.

Here, in Colorado, we have creeks and rivers that are swollen with near-record snowmelt, and a goodly number of the tubers and casual rafters don't seem to recognize a need for helmets, life vests, proper equipment, etc., notwithstanding many many warnings of the dangers.

I read in the news that there have been 18 deaths so far on Clear Creek alone (flows through Golden, Colorado) and at least 3 tuber drownings.

In addition to putting themselves in danger, these morons also obligate their rescuers (or recoverers) to also place themselves in danger.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Narr said...

One summer in the late 1970s the a/c in our library (12-story tower) went out. The decision was made that we had to stay open, so physical plant brought in fans and we stuck it out. Most of the windows could not be opened.

It took a month to get the new unit; it was 120 some days on the upper floors. No ventilation, so it smelled pretty bad. Oddly we saw little of the dreaded mildew and mold afterwards.

But librarians are tough!

Narr
Nobody died, a few got sick, many took vacation time

stlcdr said...

Acclimatization also includes learning how to work in heat/hot conditions, including when/what to drink, eat and rest. Some people can acclimatize better than others.

iowan2 said...

Acclimation is the key. As a kid I mowed hay all summer. The mows had no air movement and temps were over 100. Of course Iowa humidity.

traditionalguy said...

God created sweat to evaporate and cooled down the body. And on the second day god created clouds and shade.
The air temp gets to 105F in many places with no mass death. We did YMCA camps with lots of physical activities often on 100+ days.

And Georgia is temperate compared to Texas and Arizona.

MadisonMan said...

@Murph, sometimes, bad things just happen. I recall tubing down a somewhat rainfall-swollen creek in my youth, and there was a tree that had fallen across the creek, still with plenty of clearance between the creek and the water, except that a dead deer was draped over the tree right where I was headed. And the rushing water offered me no time to alter the course, so I hit the deer and capsized (I can still feel the dead deer's hooves scraping up my back). I popped right back up on the other side -- but it's easy to envision a scenario where I would have been sucked under.

JustSomeOldDude said...

In the army in Alaska many moons ago (though still relevant today), our biggest cold weather injury concern was not frostbite, but heat exhaustion/stroke. As the good doctor explained, you lose your judgement quickly and your companions don't know you're in trouble until you've collapsed. We made it a rule to underdress when we were out in training. It's better to freeze your ass off while standing around then to melt your brain when you're hiking in the woods.

Yancey Ward said...

I knew a couple of guys who worked on a roofing crew and they said the Mexicans they worked with told them to wear long sleeve cotton shirts for the same reason. Probably doesn't work if there is no breeze but otherwise it makes sense.

Having done a lot roofing in my teens and early 20s, I can tell you this, you wear long sleeve shirts, fingerless gloves, and wide-brimmed hats to protect from sun burn. On a cloudless day in the Summer, you can get serious second degree burns on any skin exposed to it- especially the arms, neck and head, and the backs of the hands. I learned this lesson the hard way.

n.n said...

Mother Nature deemed them to be nonviable. Her Choice and qualification (i.e. fitness) of progress.

walter said...

You'd think the nurse would have prevented this. But then..

Tomcc said...

I got a case of heat stroke when I was 14 or 15; bailing hay in western PA. In the following summers, I learned to moderate my intake of water and to take frequent breaks when doing heavy work outside. Then I moved to Alaska.

stever said...

Being healthy can be bad for your health. First World problem.

TreeJoe said...

As a former kinesiologist/exercise scientist, the article and alot of the comments here are foolish. Also, all the news articles I see saw that hyperthermia was a contributing factor - which sounds suspiciously like something else happened on the trail and maybe it was due to the deceased making a poor choice which may have been influenced by her physical state. I literally don't know - if they were performing CPR on her on the trail, she died on the trail. The reporting is unclear.

But let's assume she died from overheating: An out of shape woman apparently well equipped with water went into heat stroke .5 mile into a very technical trail.

I'm terribly sorry for her. But that could've happened to her in a wide variety of conditions. People, by and large, don't spontaneously die from over-heating. Our bodies prevent that unless we are really really pushing it. And that's harder to do than it may appear. Yes, it's easier to die if you are out of shape and unacclimated doing a physically demanding task - but what happens first is you stop exercising. Your body runs out of steam. You sit down, you get nauseous. Or you push wayyyyy past those warning signs.

You don't just drop dead.

My guess - and it's just a guess - is that she had already been hiking, may have entered the trail dehydrated and over-heating, and was out of shape and not-acclimated to the weather. And if she died from hyperthermia, which is unclear from the news reports, it's entirely possible she had a pre-existing condition which reared it's ugly head in a time of great physical stress.

I personally have never witnessed someone die from heat stroke. But I have seen and helped many people over-heating and pushing their bodies beyond their normal limits. I also have administered a shit-ton of stress tests which are specifically designed to take people to their physical limits and watch for signs of underlying pathology to emerge. And almost without fail, people can either push themselves to the point they immediately need to lie down to recover or they pass out. And it takes ALOT for a person, even an out of shape person, to push themselves to those points. I'm interpreting press accounts but I highly doubt she entered a difficult trail and .5 mile/15-20 minutes in in 100 degree heat she died with no underlying condition or entering the trail having already been pushing herself for quite awhile.

gilbar said...

As another iowan pointed out; if 90 degrees and 90 percent was deadly; there wouldn't be many iowans left

Jeff Brokaw said...

“Contributed to”.

That doctor’s comment is a bit restrictive and not really applicable to healthy people or to normal exertion for a limited time like 20-45 minutes, assuming you start super-hydrated and aren’t on weird medications etc.

I’ve exercised in hot weather throughout my life and the only time I was in a danger zone was at age 18-19 when I ran about 10 miles on a 90+ degree day. The last couple miles I started getting a headache and my perspiration started to smell like ammonia. I figured ... this doesn’t seem right! Stopped in some store got cold water, cooled off, and walked home.

This was back in like 1978 when *nobody* brought water with them on long runs! And yet somehow people were not keeling over dead on a regular basis.

buster said...

In Air Force basic training in San Antonio in August we had to wear a long sleeve fatigue blouse and carry a canteen and salt whenever outdoors, except for physical training in the morning. The fatigue blouse facilitated cooling by absorbing sweat. Because it was basic training, a lot of guys weren't in good shape at first.

Marcus said...

I've run and completed two Orange Bowl Marathons back in the 80s, both under 4 hours. In preparation for them, I ran six days a week, almost always in midday as I worked evenings. I did this also because I thought it would give me an edge over those who ran in the mornings or evenings. It really didn't as I had endurance but not speed. I don't remember hydrating too much, perhaps two glasses of water. There were few water fountains on my routes back then. A few times I drove my run route ahead of time and dropped off frozen containers of water. By the time I got to them, the ice had melted enough to drink. I haven't run in years for many reasons, but I do walk and plan my routes where there is water and sometimes showers. Running along A1A with the beach in view, and a "hot" breeze coming off the ocean was delightful. There was only one time I thought I had heat exhaustion even after a mid-point shower and water break. My legs were weak (not tired) and I felt a little dizzy. I decided to walk the remainder back wading in the shore.

THEOLDMAN

Curious George said...

When I was in HS in the 70's we had football "doubles"...two practices a day, morning and afternoon, in August. Chicago suburbs, very hot and humid in late summer. Full pads and helmets...and to toughen us up, NO WATER. Insane. No one died but a few kids got heat stroke.

Lincolntf said...

We just had a tornado hit Cape Cod. Pretty rare, only the third since the mid-Seventies (1977, maybe). Flipped over a few boats at my beach, threw some surfboards and kayaks way up off the beach and deposited them in random spots. 10K without power, but my little cottage is fine. The whitecaps are awesome.

Joe said...

TreeJoe mentioned what I was going to, but it bears repeating. I don't handle heat well, which is ironic because I live in the southwest, but I've learned that when I get symptoms of overheating, it's often because I didn't eat well the previous 24 hours. It wasn't just that I was dehydrating, my blood sugar levels were low.

(This is all exacerbated by me not sweating a lot.)

Leland said...

I'm waiting to see how long people can run through the desert like some anime character pretending that it will be the government that stops them.

Unknown said...

80 degrees F is a cool, pleasant temperature, humidity or not.

I'm Full of Soup said...

This is a sad story - she was very young.

I did 3 hours of yard work and was f-ing drenched with sweat so I went and got a large Rita's Water Ice, drank 3 bottles of water and washed that down with 3 ice cream sandwiches. And I lost 1 lb of weight - weighed in on Sunday morning.

Jeff Brokaw said...

I’ll bet you could take 100 random people from any given health club, put them through what this woman did — and zero of them would have heat stroke or any serious heat-related ailment.

Just hazarding a guess based on info from the comments.

Beasts of England said...

How do you exercise when it's this hot outside? Swim!

BUMBLE BEE said...

I remember reading some time ago, (forget where), that Jagger lost between 7-8 lbs. per concert. He's not so active now, but he's still doin ok for his age.

Michael K said...

In Air Force basic training in San Antonio in August we had to wear a long sleeve fatigue blouse and carry a canteen

I was there in 59 and we had some red flag days, even in October. A kid died on the obstacle course on a hot day.

mockturtle said...

As a child I once had [probably] a mild case of heat stroke at an air show with my parents. I felt very nauseated and weak. After I lay in the shade of a bomber wing for a while I was OK.

Rabel said...

At 80 degrees and 80 percent relative humidity the heat index is 86 degrees.

At 95 degrees and 80 percent relative humidity the heat index is 136 degrees.

The "doctor" in the Post comments is mistaken about the risk.

The commenter who cited the regularity of 95/80 days is mistaken about the humidity.

Howard said...

Blogger Beasts of England said...

How do you exercise when it's this hot outside? Swim!


Then drown. Great suggestion for an even more life threatening elective activity. Typical of you unfeeling republicans.

Howard said...

Having worked outdoors in tyvek suits in August in Ocala, Fla (100/85) and August in Phoenix (115/it's only a dry heat), I'll take humidity of central Florida. The dry heat wicks the water right out of you leaving very little available sweat for cooling. You just see salt stains. You feel fine until you don't. In the high humidity, it's so miserable all the time, you are more prone to taking precautions.

Narr said...

80 and humid is NOT a cool pleasant temp at 11pm after a day in the 100s.

I have come close to heat stroke a few times--always while doing physical labor outside in the sun. I've never exercised anywhere or in any manner that would cause the same! Other than swimming, walking, and gradually getting back to a little barbell work since I retired, I just never got the healthy exercise habit.

Narr
Biked a lot in college

joshbraid said...

Went down Kaibab (Grand Canyon) and back up Bright Angel in one day in July, many years ago. It was 105 at the bottom. I was ready though, as I had hiked down to Indian Gardens the weekend before, as a test run, and I had been hiking Arizona for weeks in the heat. I met a bunch of Pepperdine students coming up, begging (very desperately) for food--they had only taken water! I used 5 liters of water, took 14 hours, and walked 22 miles with no heat problems. Ah yes, long-sleeve shirt, long pants, hat, and lots of good snacks and food I ate whenever I felt hungry. One of the most vivid days of my life.

stlcdr said...

Blogger Howard said...
Blogger Beasts of England said...

How do you exercise when it's this hot outside? Swim!

Then drown. Great suggestion for an even more life threatening elective activity. Typical of you unfeeling republicans.

7/23/19, 2:01 PM
What is your effing problem? It is no wonder there is such a divide with complete dicks like you running around. Politics has nothing to do with it.

If it's hot, you want to exercise, go for a swim! nothing wrong with that.

Or, are just being the usual troll?

reader said...

Drowning Doesn’t Look Like Drowning (for the parents and grandparents since drowning was brought up - I send this to the new parents in our family each spring)

https://gcaptain.com/drowning/

Drowning does not look like drowning – Dr. Pia, in an article in the Coast Guard’s On Scene Magazine, described the instinctive drowning response like this:

Except in rare circumstances, drowning people are physiologically unable to call out for help. Th e respiratory system was designed for breathing. Speech is the secondary or overlaid function. Breathing must be fulfilled, before speech occurs.
Drowning people’s mouths alternately sink below and reappear above the surface of the water. The mouths of drowning people are not above the surface of the water long enough for them to exhale, inhale, and call out for help. When the drowning people’s mouths are above the surface, they exhale and inhale quickly as their mouths start to sink below the surface of the water.
Drowning people cannot wave for help. Nature instinctively forces them to extend their arms laterally and press down on the water’s surface. Pressing down on the surface of the water, permits drowning people to leverage their bodies so they can lift their mouths out of the water to breathe.
Throughout the Instinctive Drowning Response, drowning people cannot voluntarily control their arm movements. Physiologically, drowning people who are struggling on the surface of the water cannot stop drowning and perform voluntary movements such as waving for help, moving toward a rescuer, or reaching out for a piece of rescue equipment.
From beginning to end of the Instinctive Drowning Response people’s bodies remain upright in the water, with no evidence of a supporting kick. Unless rescued by a trained lifeguard, these drowning people can only struggle on the surface of the water from 20 to 60 seconds before submersion occurs. (Source: On Scene Magazine: Fall 2006)

wild chicken said...

The families around here at least seemed to have realized not to take the kids out for exercise in the heat of the day. I mean the kids were fine but Dad was sweatin, lol.

Now they're out early when I am walking.

Howard said...

Blogger stlcdr said... What is your effing problem?

Thanks for the laugh. Whomever said you conservatives lack a sense of humor was flat-out wrong. You can quote me on that.

hstad said...

There are a lot of silly (idiotic) comments on this subject. If you workout, high temperatures are dangerous for you - end of story. But knowing 'Human Beings' in the story as well as bloggers here, you can't fix stupid - truly amazing how we tempt fate every day.
Perfect example is this response from:

Lawrence Person said...
"80 degrees F and 80 percent humidity?"

Basically they're saying that nobody should ever exercise in Texas any time during the summer, where it regularly hits over 100°F.

Bah. Once I rode my bike when it was 109°F (I did cut my ride short). But I do admit that when I was walking to my car when it was 112°, the heat started to get to me...

7/23/19, 10:14 AM

You do know that you can get the same workout inside an air-conditioned workout club - center! Your anecdotal evidence is not convincing. Just because you cited it once doesn't mean the next time you can't die of a heat stroke.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

"Double sessions" 10 miles X 2/day, 90-plus degrees in high skool

Child abuse? Can we sue?

Lucien said...

Today’s 107 mile + stage of the Tour de France features air temperatures from 96 to 104 degrees, with an extra 30 or so from the road surface. But they do get a nice breeze.

Scott M said...

Because it was basic training, a lot of guys weren't in good shape at first.

Yes, but it was Air Force basic training, so they weren't in good shape at the last either. Besides, when I was there for basic, the biggest thread (May - July) was fire ants and only using the designated toilet in the barracks.

Unknown said...

Training, acclimation, hydration, and common sense...

dbp said...

These warning signs are too general. If you are fit and regularly run 8 miles in 90 F conditions, there is no two mile trail that's going to kill you--at least not from the heat.

But if you are an obese couch potato, you should start to exercise, but it should be a gradual process. You can die if you try too much all at once.

I guess I would phrase the sign. Do not attempt this trail when the temperature is over 85 unless you are physically fit.

Beasts of England said...

Just got back from the pool. Didn't drown, or even try... Sorry, Howie - I'll take another stab at it tomorrow!!

n.n said...

Physiology is just an illusion, a social construct.

Hubert the Infant said...

I recently heard something interesting that might be germane on a podcast about a scientist working on longevity. He said that humans used to have to deal with extremely variable physical conditions in terms of temperature, humidity, food availability, light, etc. Now, though, people tend to spend almost all their time in artificially-lit indoor environments maintained at 70 degrees or so. As a result, people have lost their ability to adapt to non-ideal conditions.

Freeman Hunt said...

I thought I didn't like humidity until I spent a week in the desert this summer.

whitney said...

The comment section is very affluent. Not one person talked about working outside. It doesn't appear to have even crossed anyone's mind. I do work outside in the Deep South and so do a lot of other people. I won't speak for anyone else but I do drink a lot of water but not crazy amounts. Personally, I think keeping enough salt in your diet is the key.

MadisonMan said...

The commenter who cited the regularity of 95/80 days is mistaken about the humidity.

I invite you to find a dewpoint in the upper 80s, required for a temperature of 95 with 80% relative humidity. Good luck.

mockturtle said...

I thought I didn't like humidity until I spent a week in the desert this summer.

Freeman, I love the dry air of the desert and really suffer in high-humidity conditions. I also feel better at higher elevations than at sea level. Fortunately, we don't all desire the same climate. Once when we were staying in our motorhome in Lexington, KY, I hung our towels outside to dry. In three days, they never did. In the desert where I live in AZ, my clothes dry faster on the clothesline than they would in a dryer.

ken in tx said...

I grew up in Alabama before we had AC and the temp was over 90 everyday all summer and into the fall. I was in the band and went to band camp every summer and marched in the sun there and after school started every year, in the hottest part of the day. Later, I went to AF basic training in San Antonio, TX, and was amazed that they would not have us march or exercise if it was over 90 degrees. BTW, because salt is vilified these days, many people don't get enough in hot weather. It's important.

Freeman Hunt said...

"Fortunately, we don't all desire the same climate. Once when we were staying in our motorhome in Lexington, KY, I hung our towels outside to dry. In three days, they never did. In the desert where I live in AZ, my clothes dry faster on the clothesline than they would in a dryer."

Your comment is especially apropos because I actually talked to someone from Kentucky while in the desert, and we commiserated over how the relentless sun and dry air were killing us. I was impressed by desert rain that evaporated before hitting the ground.

Quaestor said...

A former NY Giant offensive guard died of heatstroke this weekend at 32 years old too.

NFL offensive linemen are notoriously huge chaps (6'5' and 312 lbs on average) and they tend to get even larger after retirement, especially if retired due to injury.

Obese people are at severe risk of heatstroke at any age during extremely humid conditions.


Francisco D said...

When I was in HS in the 70's we had football "doubles"...two practices a day, morning and afternoon, in August. Chicago suburbs, very hot and humid in late summer. Full pads and helmets...and to toughen us up, NO WATER. Insane.

I am a couple of years older, but remember the same experience at my school near Lincoln Park. The first day of summer practice my sophomore year, I won over the upper classmen by visiting the "heavenly corner" to vomit five times. Of course, I had to sprint there and back with a great deal of cheering in the background. Being a progressive school, we had water, but it was thought that limiting the water would toughen you up.

Rabel said...

"I invite you to find a dewpoint in the upper 80s, required for a temperature of 95 with 80% relative humidity. Good luck."

What?

Anthony said...

Out here in AZ where the humidity is low (mostly; during monsoons it can get a bit uncomfortable) it can be sneaky. You're sweating a lot, but the dry air evaporates it quickly. So while you're losing water at a fairly prodigious rate, you don't fell like it because sweat isn't sitting on your skin very long. Guzzling works.

Nichevo said...


Howard said...
Blogger stlcdr said... What is your effing problem?

Thanks for the laugh. Whomever said you conservatives lack a sense of humor was flat-out wrong. You can quote me on that.

7/23/19, 2:18 PM


Ain't you got no sensayuma? I'd suggest you cribbed that out of the introduction to Bullying for Dummies, but as a former Marine, it shouldn't be assumed that you know how to read.

Michael K said...

Yes, but it was Air Force basic training, so they weren't in good shape at the last either.

I suspect that basic training has changed considerably since I went through. We did lots of running and calisthenics. I was in pretty good shape at that age (100 situps and pushups) and had no trouble but it was a pretty good workout for 9 weeks. What they did with us reservists is run us through the four week cycle twice because we were not going to school. Our average age was about 24 and the average education level was about 3 years of college. That was pre-Vietnam and well before the pussification of America. The big thing the AF did not do well was marksmanship.

Narr said...

Whitney@310-- nuh-uh! I mentioned outside work in the Southern summer sun, of which I did my share. Those experiences did a lot to keep me in school.

In JROTC we wore wool greens most of the year; no a/c back then except in some office areas IIRC. At least we were allowed to go tunic-less when it was judged hot enough. I think a couple of guys did fall out from drill because of the heat.

Narr
It was mizable


rcocean said...

Never did understand the "No water" during Football practice. As a said to our Coach, "I understand there's unlimited water during the game. So why don't we have that?"

rcocean said...

He said it was supposed to "toughen us up". Which sounded stupid to me - even at 16.

Ralph L said...

I pulled a muscle so badly it bruised running last October after a long, sweaty walk/jog in high humidity and low 70's, the night before our second hurricane. I fell down in the middle of our main drag, but fortunately it was after midnight. It was a long hobble home and several days more.

Ralph L said...

He said it was supposed to "toughen us up"

And weed out the weak and uncommitted.

rcocean said...

"And weed out the weak and uncommitted."

Except this was football practice AFTER the team had been selected. And Football workouts are supposed to be about winning the fucking football game - not seeing who has the most team spirit.

Richard Aubrey said...

I was at Benning in 69, OCS JUne-Dec. It was said there were more heat casualties at Benning that summer--which was reputed to be close to a record--than in Viet Nam at the same time.
It was odd. One Army--whichever one included Benning--required every soldier to take a salt tab at meals, under the watch of an officer.
Then I got to Jackson, Columbia, SC, equally hot...no mention of salt tabs. Couple of times I should have had them. Hell of a headache.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"I'm waiting to see how long people can run through the desert like some anime character pretending that it will be the government that stops them."

Actually, that was the real ending (i.e. Nirvana with the capitol) of Groundhog Day.

Instead of what Sonah Joyboyberg thought, enlightenment etc. Bill just sat and watched people die in the desert, and laughed and laughed and laughed.

He's still laughing his ass off now, like the plotters of the Kavanaugh coup attempt, but mainly because Kavanaugh deserves a coup of Clarence consciousness.

iowan2 said...

The article laid out the facts that a person was stationed at the trail head to warn hikers away due to the temps. Also pointed out that only 20% of the hikers showed up any water. People just aren't very bright. No concept of their own limitations.

Here in Iowa we are 3 days into RAGBRAI. (the Registers Annual Great Bike Ride Across Iowa) Lots of people show up that have done little training. Nothing to prepare them for riding 60 to 70 miles per day for 7 days. Its the last week of July for the last 50+ years. It's not like it sneaks up on people, and yet they show up. Luck of the draw, has this year as near perfect. Temps, light wind, dry. I bet they're having a blast tonight in Indianola

Guildofcannonballs said...

I've seen the signs along with the Lynching johns mobbing: real men don't have sex with women unless consecrated through (by?) marriage.

And we are quite sure a certain potUS we all know and ... well, we all know... HAS DONE THAT VERY THING!

Had sex! That don't sit right with some of us out here, able to see the writings on the walls... Surely Lancelot would have come forward if it weren't for the damn damns.

Or maybe, just maybe, no excuses now, we got our own Lancelot right here, at the Althouse blog. Waiting for my nudging.

dbp said...

"The big thing the AF did not do well was marksmanship."

I was amazed by how well the Marines did marksmanship. We spent two weeks doing nothing else, besides PT, Chow Hall and Rack time.

My Platoon had 90 men and the average number of bullseyes from 500 meters was 9. The bullseye was big, but from that range, the front sight post was easily twice the apparent size as the whole target.

It was 90 F every single day in San Diego and Camp Pendleton, but dry and not at all a problem for most of us. A guy from another platoon in our company had a massive coronary out on a run and died, but I think that was pretty unusual.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Oh that's right, I gotta connect 'em for ya too. Dot dot dot not enough. Links aren't enough, gotta fucking put in a hyperlink.

I'm used to it. Burdens.

So, having sex when humid and hot ought be pushing way more people to death than we had realized, unless we've also read having sex doesn't raise the body's defenses and then blithely surpass them.

Some of us know what's true and what's not. Even having read conflicting reports.

Mobs a lynchin' though, well they just gonna keep on keeping on doing it (lynching).

Guildofcannonballs said...

"80 degrees F is a cool, pleasant temperature, humidity or not."

CIA cesspits that is downright frigid.

Hell is much hotter also, the Hell of the bible not cash cows.

Howard said...

Blogger Beasts of England said...Just got back from the pool. Didn't drown, or even try... Sorry, Howie - I'll take another stab at it tomorrow!!

That's the spirit.

Guildofcannonballs said...

https://www.amazon.com/Medique-03033-Medi-Lyte-Electrolyte-100-Tablets/dp/B004IZA46S?psc=1&SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-exp-b-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B004IZA46S

Have some fucking respect and order it through the Goddamned Althouse blog here.

Fuck's sakes.

Howard said...

Blogger Nichevo said... I'd suggest you cribbed that out of the introduction to Bullying for Dummies...

If that was bullying, then Doc Mike is spot on when he says

Blogger Michael K said... That was pre-Vietnam and well before the pussification of America.

Your defining bullying down to the pussy level, Nichevo. Nice try.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"I met a bunch of Pepperdine students coming up, begging (very desperately) for food--they had only taken water!"

#MeTooMeth

Guildofcannonballs said...

"What is your effing problem? It is no wonder there is such a divide with complete dicks like you running around. Politics has nothing to do with it.

If it's hot, you want to exercise, go for a swim! nothing wrong with that.

Or, are just being the usual troll?"

His problem is self-awareness. It happens, okay. What's needed is love. Self-love. Aware of how great it is, who can resist?

Guildofcannonballs said...

"The families around here at least seemed to have realized not to take the kids out for exercise in the heat of the day. I mean the kids were fine but Dad was sweatin, lol.

Now they're out early when I am walking."

Amazing how when you walk everyone isn't as dumb at their dad at 16 years of age.

No matter when you walk, no doubt.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"Whomever said you conservatives lack a sense of humor was flat-out wrong."

Guildofcannonballs said...

"If you workout, high temperatures are dangerous for you - end of story. But knowing 'Human Beings' in the story as well as bloggers here, you can't fix stupid"

I fix it everyday, cunt. I can fix you too. "If you workout in higher than normal temperatures, it is more dangerous than working out in your normal temperature range is."

Guildofcannonballs said...

I wouldn't have phrased it the way I phrased you saying it, but it was accurate.

Maybe you've learned, so I won't assume with an "is" accurate definition of the verb "to be."

Guildofcannonballs said...


I wouldn't have phrased it the way I phrased you saying it, but it was accurate.

I can quote me.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Who is fastest (limited*): the highest rate of speed attained or the shortest time taken to achieve a given distance?

Why?

I conclude 'fastest' limits much else if the "in a given amount of distance*" is included as opposed to when it's not.

I've got examples ying/yang ying yingly yang yanglingly.

Why don't we appreciate Hardin more via math? We all know it's warranted.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"I recently heard something interesting" whereby it was deemed not as recent to some as other's might perceive it as.

Marcus said...

With the exception of a few days here and there as a teenager, I have never worked outside. Been stuck in kitchens for decades, in Florida, with NO A/C back then. Even with air-conditioned kitchens now, the line can be very hot. As a 18 year old working over a steamtable expediting 700-plus dinners a night, I took the temperature at crotch level. 105 degrees. It was a miracle I got anyone pregnant. Years later I would consume quarts of water during a shift and NEVER have to urinate.

THEOLDMAN

Guildofcannonballs said...

*Oh and if you do figure it ought, Bill Clinton will always be link textFast as You
Song by Dwight Yoakam
Lyrics
Maybe someday I'll be strong
Maybe it won't be long
I'll be the one who's tough
You'll be the one who's got it rough
It won't be long and
Maybe I'll be real strong
Maybe I'll do things right
Maybe I'll start tonight
You'll learn to cry like me
Baby let's just wait and see
Maybe I'll start tonight
And do things right
You'll control me
And oh so boldly
Rule me 'til I'm free
'Til the pain that shakes me
Finally makes me
Get up off of my knees
Maybe I'll be as fast as you
Maybe I'll break hearts too
But I think that you'll slow down
When your turn to hurt comes around
Maybe I'll break hearts
And be as fast as you
You'll control me
Oh so boldly
Rule me 'til I'm free
'Til the pain that shakes me
Finally makes me
Get up off of my knees
Maybe I'll be as fast as you
Maybe I'll break hearts too
But I think that you'll slow down
When your turn to hurt comes around
Maybe I'll break hearts and be as fast as you
Maybe I'll break hearts and be as fast as you
Oh, sucker
Yeah, I'll be strong, it won't be long
I'll be the one who's tough
You'll be the one who's got it rough
You'll learn to cry like me
Baby let's just wait and see
Yeah, maybe I'll be fast as you
Maybe I'll break hearts too
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Dwight Yoakam
Fast as You lyrics © The Bicycle Music Company

Guildofcannonballs said...

*Oh and if you do figure it ought, Bill Clinton will always be link textFast as You
Song by Dwight Yoakam
Lyrics
Maybe someday I'll be strong
Maybe it won't be long
I'll be the one who's tough
You'll be the one who's got it rough
It won't be long and
Maybe I'll be real strong
Maybe I'll do things right
Maybe I'll start tonight
You'll learn to cry like me
Baby let's just wait and see
Maybe I'll start tonight
And do things right
You'll control me
And oh so boldly
Rule me 'til I'm free
'Til the pain that shakes me
Finally makes me
Get up off of my knees
Maybe I'll be as fast as you
Maybe I'll break hearts too
But I think that you'll slow down
When your turn to hurt comes around
Maybe I'll break hearts
And be as fast as you
You'll control me
Oh so boldly
Rule me 'til I'm free
'Til the pain that shakes me
Finally makes me
Get up off of my knees
Maybe I'll be as fast as you
Maybe I'll break hearts too
But I think that you'll slow down
When your turn to hurt comes around
Maybe I'll break hearts and be as fast as you
Maybe I'll break hearts and be as fast as you
Oh, sucker
Yeah, I'll be strong, it won't be long
I'll be the one who's tough
You'll be the one who's got it rough
You'll learn to cry like me
Baby let's just wait and see
Yeah, maybe I'll be fast as you
Maybe I'll break hearts too
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Dwight Yoakam
Fast as You lyrics © The Bicycle Music Company

Guildofcannonballs said...

Ut RKLE

tHOSE UNamericans.

so.ute



NDO so destroy unt alhcust desgroy DOOO GOO
Solute kyour esit

Giovan Pietro Bellori said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nichevo said...

Howard said...
Blogger Nichevo said... I'd suggest you cribbed that out of the introduction to Bullying for Dummies...

If that was bullying, then Doc Mike is spot on when he says

Blogger Michael K said... That was pre-Vietnam and well before the pussification of America.

Your defining bullying down to the pussy level, Nichevo. Nice try.

7/23/19, 7:46 PM

Thing is, it's always the same with you. It's your whole act.