Though it had kids in it — Doris Day's 4 unruly sons — it was the story of a married couple with a disagreement about how to live — city or country? — that got the husband — David Niven — into a position to be sorely tempted to commit adultery. The husband and wife also kept approaching but not having sex, as those unruly sons would inevitably interrupt them (in a manner that I can now understand must have been funny to adults in 1960s even though it still doesn't make me laugh). Sexual frustration is expressed in the lyrics to the song "Please Don't Eat the Daisies" — "Here I am waitin' and anticipatin'... I'm so romantic but I'm gettin' frantic" — which is inexplicably sung by Doris while dancing in a circle with a couple dozen schoolchildren.
The husband is a New York City theater critic, and much of the story depends on fathoming what this job is and the sort of ethical issues that arise within it — should you pan a play written by your friend? — and the dynamic at cocktail parties and how success as a critic might warp a man's personality. None of that was accessible to me when I was 9!
Niven wants to live in NYC and go to literary parties. Doris wants a house in the country:
Doris: "Of course, you want to stay in the middle of things."I thought that was excellent dialogue, and Doris Day really made "So is every other housewife" profound. On paper, you might think it would mean something like a sarcastic "Yeah, right" or "That's what they all say." But the way Doris said it, it meant, All housewives are complex and distinctive individuals and it's terrible that we are being overlooked.
Niven: "But it could be fun for you too — meeting interesting people, making new friends."
Doris: "Darling, interesting people don't want to make friends with housewives."
Niven: "You shouldn't call yourself a housewife. You're so much more than that."
Doris: "So is every other housewife."
I also liked this observation about adultery: "An honest truck driver cheats on his wife, he's polite enough to keep it to himself. The eggheads — the diploma boys — they tell you everything. That way, if you're jealous, you're wrong."
There was also recognition that gender is nonbinary. One of the boys says to a woman, "Excuse me, are you a lady or a man?" Her answer is: "I'm a veterinarian, sonny. It's somewhere in between."
I can't say I really enjoyed this movie, but I liked figuring out why I couldn't enjoy it when I was 9. I don't blame my mother for thinking I could, because I can see — here's the trailer — that the children (and the dog) were strongly featured in the advertising. I wanted to see this movie again, in part because Doris Day died recently (at age 97). Looking at her filmography, I realize this is one of only 2 Doris Day movies I've seen, and it's the only one I saw in the theater when it came out (and thus the only one eligible for inclusion in the imaginary movie project). As for David Niven, he's not the sort of man I find attractive, but I loved some of the details of his biography. From Wikipedia:
The day after Britain declared war on Germany in 1939, Niven returned home and rejoined the British Army. He was alone among British stars in Hollywood in doing so...
Niven took part in the Allied invasion of Normandy in June 1944, although he was sent to France several days after D-Day. He served in "Phantom," a secret reconnaissance and signals unit which located and reported enemy positions, and kept rear commanders informed on changing battle lines....
He gave a few details of his war experience in his autobiography, The Moon's a Balloon: his private conversations with Winston Churchill, the bombing of London, and what it was like entering Germany with the occupation forces. Niven first met Churchill at a dinner party in February 1940. Churchill singled him out from the crowd and stated, "Young man, you did a fine thing to give up your film career to fight for your country. Mark you, had you not done so − it would have been despicable."
A few stories have surfaced. About to lead his men into action, Niven eased their nervousness by telling them, "Look, you chaps only have to do this once. But I'll have to do it all over again in Hollywood with Errol Flynn!" Asked by suspicious American sentries during the Battle of the Bulge who had won the World Series in 1943, he answered, "Haven't the foggiest idea, but I did co-star with Ginger Rogers in Bachelor Mother!"
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136 comments:
I remember reading a book about Hollywood -- might have been a biography of Sam Goldwyn, but I'm not sure -- but in any event, one of the takeaways was that, in the view of the subject, EVERYONE in Hollywood was an asshole and a phony, with the sole exception of David Niven, who was genuinely nice, kind, humble person. What you've posted is completely consistent with that characterization.
Ha! I just took this dvd from library because of DD's death. Based on this description I'll just turn it in for another. I did enjoy her in Young at Heart last week. Think I will buy the CD for that (Frank Sinatra sings standards.)
When I was that age,my parent took me to see real serious stuff, like Imitation of Life, the Children's Hour, Judgement at Nuremburg, and some movie about atomic war leaving only one white guy and a black guy. And a woman I think. Parent had to explain things
God that was some depressing shit.
The movie (and TV show) "Please Don't Eat the Daisies" was based on a semi-autographical book by Jean Kerr. It sold millions of copies and I remember reading it sometime in the mid-sixties because of the TV show.
Wiki top level of summary of Jean Kerr: "Jean Kerr was an Irish-American author and playwright born in Scranton, Pennsylvania, and best known for her humorous bestseller, Please Don't Eat the Daisies, and the plays King of Hearts and Mary, Mary."
She and her husband were married for over 50 years until his death.
I never liked the movie, but I admire Jean Kerr.
And Jean Kerr's husband Walter was drama critic for the Herald Tribune and then, after its demise, the Times.
Please continue your movie project. Those great factoids about David Niven makes it worthwhile. I had no idea. What a hero! You’ll find out more stuff like this.
The best biography of Davi∂ Niven is called, "Niv" and is by his friends.
He had a tragic life in many ways. He married a girl he met in the military, Primmie, who was not an actress or celebrity.
She died in a tragic fall during a parlor game in Hollywood, leaving him two little boys.
He married a fashion model two years later who hated him but resembled Primmie. Sort of like Clark Gabel marrying Kay Sprekles because she resembled Carol Lombard.
He died of ALS in 1983. His wife who was an alcoholic, did not attend his funeral.
Doris Day and John Deutschendorf
“The movie (and TV show) "Please Don't Eat the Daisies" was based on a semi-autographical book by Jean Kerr. It sold millions of copies and I remember reading it sometime in the mid-sixties because of the TV show.”
The movie was based on that book too. Kerr’s husband was the NYT critic Walter Kerr.
The book looks like it’s a series of lighthearted comic essays, while the movie has one narrative arc that I doubt is in the book, but I assume assorted comic vignettes are in the book, like keeping one of the boys in a cage and the cowardly dog.
"There was also recognition that gender is nonbinary. One of the boys says to a woman, "Excuse me, are you a lady or a man?" Her answer is: "I'm a veterinarian, sonny. It's somewhere in between."
Total bs. I was 20 back then and i think i have a better understanding of what was accepted back then.It was meant as a joke ,just like another joke back then: I have three kids, one of each.
I remember being taken by my father at the age of 9 to a movie: The Searchers. It didn't baffle me, though in later life, I saw the rape references that went over my head then. I spent the next year trying to imitate John Wayne's voice, and must've uttered the phrase "that'll be the day" 10,000 times.
David Niven always did better in "guy" movies. IMHO, but I'm a guy. He was the essential "British guy" in Hollywood, the seen-it-all imperial sort, the unflappable fellow who can walk through absurdity and disaster looking cool regardless. Or trying very hard to and not quite managing it, which is usually even funnier.
Around that time (1960-62) he was in "Guns of Navarone", which was, and, I think, still is essential viewing, in spite of Gregory Peck being where he had no business to be, and the much overlooked but very well done comedy "The Best of Enemies" (British vs Italians in East Africa, where Niven does the essential David Niven.
Yikes i was 23 not 20! The 4th quarter stinks.
"But the way Doris said it, it meant, All housewives are complex and distinctive individuals and it's terrible that we are being overlooked."
I think this is likely what she did mean, but if so, she should not have said "Darling, interesting people don't want to make friends with housewives."
That isn't how interesting people think of themselves. If you want someone to be interested, you need to find a way to catch their interest. Usually, this means finding out what they are already interested in and acting accordingly, but people with enough charisma can bypass this and simply be themselves.
Portraying yourself as a victim of an unfair system is the easiest way to lose someone's interest.
The first movie I remember seeing and understanding was "The Longest Day" (1962), which was spectacular and made a life-long impression. I can still sing Paul Anka's/Mitch Miller's song.
The music was also tremendous.
To this day it is the standard against which I compare any film.
For a moment I thought Niven was the one who mistreated Carole Landis, leading to her suicide. But that was Rex Harrison. Those sophisticated Englishmen all look alike to me.
For which I'm glad, since Niven left behind at least two books of Hollywood memoirs, "The Moon's A Balloon" and "Bring on the Empty Horses." He was also great friends with Errol Flynn, but that didn't stop him from saying, "You can rely on Errol Flynn - he'll always let you down."
Yes I've seen that one on movies channel as well as force 10 from navarrone which was some what different niven was sas or long range patrol during the war wasnt he.
“I think this is likely what she did mean, but if so, she should not have said "Darling, interesting people don't want to make friends with housewives."
There had been a scene in which partygoers who fawned over her husband paid no attention to her, so she was reporting what happened not guessing what they thought. She was saying those people snub me. It was clear in the delivery.
Well maybe I got the details mixed up:
http://forum.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/639.page
If I recall correctly, David Niven lost his first wife while playing hide and seek in the dark. She fell down a flight of stairs after opening a door which she thought was a closet. Other participants in the game were Bogart and Bacall. There were several other well-known actors and celebrities.
Both films reminded me of this interesting artefact:
https://flashbak.com/add-extra-dimension-play-famous-world-war-ii-battle-navarone-giant-playset-44688/
I remember seeing this is a kid on TV in the 1970's and thinking it was going to be about Doris Day and Dogs and Kids and getting bored by all the David Niven stuff.
David Niven was a superfunny guy OFF SCREEN. I can't say i was a big fan. He's one of those actors that MUST be in the right part. Guns of Navorone, Prisoner of Zenda (1937), Dawn Patrol, Raffles, Around the world in 80 days, 55 days at Peking.
He got a sort of makeup AA for Separate tables. He does well in the part, but 20 English stage actors could've done better.
I remember Don't Eat The Daisys as a mish mash of cute happenings, but Doris Day's upbeat personality made it into a happy movie. Niven actually played his critic part well. I mostly remember the wealthy life style of middle class New Yorkers was so different from the Atlanta I knew.
Bring on the Rock Hudson romances. Those were well done.
That used to be a big thing back after WWII and before about 1965, well-to-do city folks moving out to the country and then writing books about it. The egg and I, Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House, and writers who had farmhouses like Gladys Taber oor Scott Nearing.
Doris Day really didn't have much chemistry with David Niven Or Cary Grant. OTOH, Rex Harrison did. But then he was trying to kill her.
She did better with James Garner, Rock Hudson, Rod Taylor and James Stewart.
"Oh, She's just a housewife". Good lord, that's the difference between real life and the movies. I don't remember ANYONE having that attitude when I was growing up. You only saw it on TV. Especially, those awful commercials like "My wife's pretty good, I think I'll keep her" or the weird hysterical feminist reaction against that.
I love Mr. Blandings.
I saw The Thomas Crown Affair when I was 9. Didn’t understand it. Saw the WWII movie st came out. I remember seeing You Only Live Twice. I was 5?
Still like Glass Bottom Boat.
Vladimir sent me.
I read the book. I can't remember much about it, but it was a quick read, light and interesting. I think he wrote it himself. He truly was literate and witty. His screen persona wasn't greatly different from whom he truly was or, anyway, who he appeared to be in his book......Maybe, like Carrie Fisher, his writings about Hollywood are more accomplished than his work in Hollywood. So far as movie star memoirs go, his are highly ranked.
Planet of the Apes.
I read Niven’s novel Go Slowly, Come Back Quickly when I was just entering puberty. The opening paragraph tells of the hero, a football player, getting a boner while ogling a cheerleader on the sideline. Needless to say I was hooked. Perfect novel for a horny kid with pretentions.
It sounds like the hero’s wartime exploits were loosely based on his own history.
There's a movie, Teacher's Pet, where Clark Gable leers at her, and you realize how sexy she is.
My favorite Jean Kerr book is Penny Candy, another collection of autobiographical essays that, no matter how many times I pick it up, invariably makes me laugh out loud. One vignette:
She and her husband are invited to a dinner party at his boss's house in the city. She struggles to find an appropriate dress (she's tall and saleswomen always send her to Ladies' Sportswear). She succeeds! Bring young, they show up right on time to the party, so of course they're the first to arrive by half an hour or so. Jean doesn't know why the boss's wife looks a little strained around the edges until they all go into the living room - which is draped on three walls, floor to ceiling, with the same fabric as her dress. The other wall is where the fireplace is. So throughout the party, she has the choice of standing next to the fire and having all the curl go out of her hair,or appearing to be a disembodied head.
She describes a conversation with one guest that ends in the middle of a sentence with his muttering, "I don't know what they put in this drink!" and wandering away.
Omg Separate Tables, that was as not he er one we saw.
There were so many B&W dramas 1950s early 60s. I think The Industry gave up on that genre.
I read the first book of Niven's autobiography, The Moon's a Ballon, maybe forty years ago. He came across as a decent, humble chap.
I also recommend Kirk Douglas's autobio The Ragman's Son. Douglas comes across as not a humble chap, in part because of the omissions. He mentions cheating on all of his wives, except for the wife he had when he wrote the book. His film hayday was the late 50s-early 60s, and Douglas must have been competing with Charlton Heston for parts (they played the same kind of leading man in the same kind of films), yet he never mentions Heston by name. Lots of gossipy stories about Hollywood and Broadway in the olden days, including a complaint that Burgess Meredith used to steal his girlfriends.
Its an interesting idea, that such things as movies define a world view, program some essential thing at an early age.
It makes one think about what our kids were permitted to see when they were 5 or 6.
Myself, I have no complaints.
There was never a doubt in my mind that Doris Day was beautiful, the first time you see her you think, I wonder if she knows how beautiful she is?
David Niven was a good writer and he wrote the best line I have ever read from a famous person about his friends who never were famous, and who were never going to be famous. He liked them all, and I am not going to quote exactly what he said, but it was something like this - someone said to him - David you had a very interesting war, you got shot at, you were in the secret service, you must have accomplished a lot, why don't you ever talk about it, people would love to hear what you have to say: and Niven, in reply, maybe right then to the person who asked, or maybe in his memoirs later on, said this in answer: he could not really talk about what he went through in the war because he did not die and thousands of people who went through exactly what he went through died and so he had thousands of reasons not to take the risk of seeming like he wanted to brag.
NIven was much more eloquent than me on the subject, you should look it up.
BTW Niven was on active duty in lots of dangerous locations during what we now call WWII
"That used to be a big thing back after WWII and before about 1965, well-to-do city folks moving out to the country and then writing books about it."
You do see that everywhere, no? From the 1950's on. "The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit" had it, etc.
That's also some of the "Green Acres" satire. I didn't get it in that way of course, not understanding that New York City thing. There was some subculture no doubt that got that part of the joke.
Remember Niven was a presenter at the Oscars when a “streaker” ran across the stage.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2IIl3zSYL8k
I read Niven's memoirs years ago and thought they were hilarious, he was a talented raconteur who seemed to know everyone in Hollywood at a time when such people were actually interesting. As a child my next door neighbors used to invite me along with their 2 kids when they went to the local drive-in movie. I remember seeing both Pillow Talk and The Apartment and having no idea what they were about but I didn’t care as I just loved going to the drive-in. My parents never took us as we had 5 kids and I suppose the prospect was not at all appealing.
Interesting post and (especially) comment thread—I learned a lot about David Niven today!
Niven himself mentioned the must see movie: Bachelor Mother. It's hilarious.
I liked Doris Day in Hitchcock's "The Man Who Knew Too Much." I was older when I first saw it -- 22 or so. I went by myself.
I returned to Althouse's original "imaginary movie post" to try and figure out what she wishes a post may evolve or what comments it might elicit.
These would all be movies that I've seen before, that I remember reacting to at the time, and where I'm curious about what effect they might have on me now.
Our own "imaginary movie" comments - regarding a movie we saw at an early age and it affected us? The particular actors (Doris Day and David Niven)?
This has been a very interesting (personal reflections of earliest movie memories) and informative (David Niven's wives, personal life, etc) post.
Here's my personal reflection of my earliest movie memory of David Niven: my folks took us to see "Around the World in 80 Days". I loved that movie - but looking back, the womanizing Cantiflas and the funeral pyre sequence with the Shirley McClaine character went right over my head. Will never forget David Niven strolling into the men's club at the very end (spoiler alert) just in time to collect on his bet.
I was about 9 or so when my parents took me and my brother to see "Paint Your Wagon" at the Big Sky Drive-In. Any Madison folks remember that drive-in and where it wa? Bonus points if you remember what was across the Beltline from it.
The movie had just gotten going when my mother decided that something was inappropriate for kids. She made my dad start the car and leave. My brother and I were bewildered. I should watch that movie to see what my mom was freaking out about.
Trust me: Run, don't walk, to read David Niven's The Moon's A Balloon and Bring on the Empty Horses.
Will never forget David Niven strolling into the men's club at the very end (spoiler alert) just in time to collect on his bet.
Great scene. I like David Niven in "The Bridge On The River Kwai" especially his last scene: super spoiler alert.
David Niven had a real dislike for James Mason, because Mason was a Conscious Objector in WW 2. Mason even refused to do "Non-combatant" war work and they let it slide because he made movies. You can understand why, because Niven left Hollywood and joined the British Army in 1939.
I've also read that he and Brando got along famously in "Bedtime Story" because Niven had Brando "rolling the aisles" with his witty remarks.
"Great scene. I like David Niven in "The Bridge On The River Kwai" especially his last scene"
HE was fabulous in My Fair lady too.
chickelit: The entire plot of PyW revolves around the acute shortage of women in a Western gold mining town, and what the deprived men should do about it. Of course, depending on one's perpective, it should be watched now for Clint Eastwood and Jean Seberg. Some musical. But then, when you think about it Gigi, My Fair Lady and Camelot are pretty adult stories for a musical. But nothing quite like JS in 19th C. ladies' undies.
Brit actor, war hero:
Christopher Lee..."I was attached to the SAS from time to time but we are forbidden – former, present, or future – to discuss any specific operations. Let's just say I was in Special Forces and leave it at that. People can read in to that what they like.["
Also, Chickelit, are you being cheeky about placing DN in TBOTBK?
Also, Chickelit, are you being cheeky about placing DN in TBOTBK?
No, just mistaken. That was Alec Guinness.
That was Alec Guinness in “Bridge on the River Kwai”
Niven wants to live in NYC and go to literary parties. Doris wants a house in the country
You are my wife!
Goodbye country life
Manhatten we are there!
Remember when English actors all had Oxbridge accents. Now they all have gritty regional or working class accents. The only people in Westeros who went to good schools were the Lannisters, and they were mostly pricks. A posh English accent don't mean shit no more.
David Niven was the coolest kind of brit: he and Peter Sellars and David Frost. Niven got to be James Bond for crying out loud, maybe the second best of all of them.
But for the mid-century romcom, Jack Lemmon & Dorthy Provine > David Niven & Doris Day
The day after Britain declared war on Germany in 1939, Niven returned home and rejoined the British Army. He was alone among British stars in Hollywood in doing so...
Leslie Howard, who had just completed Gone With the Wind, also returned to the UK. Being over-age for someone with no military background for active service he did his bit by making inspirational movies about Britain's war effort, Pimpernel Smith and First of the Few being two notable examples. He was killed in a German air attack on the airliner carrying Howard and 16 other passengers and crew over the Bay of Biscay.
David Niven had other important military assignments in WWII. Months after D-Day Major David Niven was assigned to Montgomery's 21st Army Group staff. In that assignment, he did a lot of liaison work with Bradly's 12th Army Group headquarters. During the Ardennes Offensive, Niven was given the vital task of personally contacting the headquarters of American divisions stationed on the extreme left of the 12th AG cut off from Bradley's HQ by the German attack. Eisenhower had transferred these insolated units from Bradley's command to Montgomery, and because of damaged landlines and German radio jamming the only way to inform those unit commanders of the new situation and establish direct communications with Monty's HQ was to send a British officer with a familiar face with the new directives to be delivered in person. That job involved hundreds of miles of jeep travel in arctic weather through American roadblocks manned by jumpy GIs who knew the enemy had infiltrated their lines with English-speaking German soldiers wearing American uniforms and using American equipment and weapons. Wouldn't a British Officer be the perfect disguise for a German infiltrator whose English was distinctly Received English-accented? Niven was challenged several times and wasn't able to answer many of the sports-oriented test questions the checkpoint guards invented on the spur of the moment (Who won the National League pennant in '37?) but his familiar face and voice got him through every time. Major Niven's driver was Sergeant Peter Ustinov.
The movies and tv shows that I wasn’t allowed to see are much more memorable to me.
Niven was great, but James Mason was a much finer and more versatile actor.
I'd say a posh English accent does still mean something, but it's now a signifier of racist malevolence at worst or twit incompetence at best. And they have mostly themselves to blame.
Narr
From Crown Imperial to Monty Python in one generation
So, when I was about 12, siblings 10 and 8, my dad was stationed in S. Korea and we were living (with my mom) on an Air Force base Stateside. My sister and I were in ballet lessons, which, one day, got cancelled and moved to the next day. My mom, losing track of what day of the summer it was because of the ballet lesson change (as a mom now, I can see how this can happen), bought tickets at the base movie theater for - she thought - You Light Up My Life. (Only one screen - and probably, back then, just the plain Admit One tickets.) But she was a day late, and the movie turned out to be Rolling Thunder. Yikes! A very well deserved R rating! But she had spent all the money, so we ended up sitting through it anyway. My first exposure to... Gosh. So much. Prostitution. Movie nudity. Vietnam PTSD. A guy getting his hand ground off in a garbage disposal.
There was also recognition that gender is nonbinary. One of the boys says to a woman, "Excuse me, are you a lady or a man?" Her answer is: "I'm a veterinarian, sonny. It's somewhere in between."
Nonsense. Veterinary medicine is in no sense a gender, it's a profession and an especially tough one given the extremely competitive admissions situation prevailing in the past and the fact that every veterinary student had to be trained in livestock and equine medicine as well as dogs and cats. The woman gives a nonsensical evasive answer to a simple question, which the director thought was either funny or profound (it's neither).
When Althouse is being analytical she's brilliant, except when she's not.
I loved that movie as a kid. I saw it on TV when I was 11 or 12, and had such a crush on David Niven. Just The kind of guy I expected to marry when I grew up. Both his autobiographical books are delightful.
I just scanned through the top 300 movies of 1975- I would have turned 9 in July of that year.
We saw in the theater only Jaws and Let's Do It Again from that list up to 300. I remember seeing The Sting and both Godfather movies along with Blazing Saddles during the years of their release- from 1972 to 74. I actually understood a great deal of what was going on even in the earliest of those, the first of the Godfather movies. I think only The Sting had me truly mystified- it was hard for 7 year old me to follow the various cons being perpetrated. In Blazing Saddles, of course, a lot of ribaldry was a bit over my head, but I did understand it was a satire of westerns (a genre I was well familiar with by that time).
A movie like Please Don't Eat the Daisies would not have appealed to me as a 9 year old, nor, really, even today.
Nonsense. Veterinary medicine is in no sense a gender . . .
Jokes, like golden geese, don't benefit from dissection.
Try seeing Shane at age 8,
Not to sound like a spambot with nothing to add, but that’s a beautiful post.
WWII. Months after D-Day Major David Niven was assigned to Montgomery's 21st Army Group staff.
My dad probably met him them.
"I was attached to the SAS from time to time but we are forbidden – former, present, or future – to discuss any specific operations. Let's just say I was in Special Forces and leave it at that. People can read in to that what they like.["
My dad wasn’t SAS, but the only time he talked about the war was to admit that, yeah, that was him with Monty in the signed photo. He was a technical sgt, I can only piece together what his war experience must have been like by reading about Montgomery.
My dad took me to see Blazing Saddles in the theater when I was nine. I really did not understand it and weirdly I've never seen it again. It's like I want to keep that confusion that I had with my Dad instead of having Clarity without him
Otto said...'There was also recognition that gender is nonbinary. One of the boys says to a woman, "Excuse me, are you a lady or a man?" Her answer is: "I'm a veterinarian, sonny. It's somewhere in between." Total bs. I was 20 back then and i think i have a better understanding of what was accepted back then.It was meant as a joke ,just like another joke back then: I have three kids, one of each."
Thanks, but your humor is not the same as mine, so I can't hire you as my humor detector. Of course, the line in the movie was a joke, but you're failing to absorb the sense in which my writing is humor and you're missing the full depth of the original humor.
Have you ever seen the film "Celluloid Closet"? If not, please do.
The first movie theater movie for me was Mary Poppins. (I think we saw it twice!)
Dad said the first movie theater movie he remembered was All Quiet on the Western Front. He remembered his baby sitter crying all through the movie.
"I remember Don't Eat The Daisys as a mish mash of cute happenings, but Doris Day's upbeat personality made it into a happy movie. Niven actually played his critic part well. I mostly remember the wealthy life style of middle class New Yorkers was so different from the Atlanta I knew. Bring on the Rock Hudson romances. Those were well done."
At one point Doris's character made a wisecrack that while her husband was away she could have a "rendez-vous with Rock Hudson."
There was some good pathos as Doris believed she was going to lose her husband, and — even worse — that he had changed into the sort of person she didn't like or even approve of.
In what's on screen, he appears never to succumb to the temptation to have actual sex with the Janis Paige character. But they have so many encounters, including one in his hotel room, that it doesn't make sense as human behavior. I guess that made Paige funnier, because she was such an over-the-top siren and she kept failing, with Doris winning by refusing to do phony things to keep her bad husband. But I think there's a secret subtext, and a sophisticated viewer is supposed to see the movie as cleaned up for the general audience and the kids but, really, you should see the sexual affair as real.
Similarly, there are 2 gay characters who are never openly gay — a female (the veterinarian) and a male (a salesman in the home decorating department at Macy's).
"I think this is likely what she did mean, but if so, she should not have said 'Darling, interesting people don't want to make friends with housewives.'
"That isn't how interesting people think of themselves."
She's commenting on how others see her.
Kerr's "Daisies" book is a mish-mash of essays reprinted from women's magazines. Only one is about her family. The rest are about cocktail parties, home decorating, and her health. Had she not been married to a NYC theatre critic, it's hard to imagine she would have gotten a book deal. It's all especially odd since the move and the TV show have nothing to do with the book. One does not get a sense of housewifeliness or motherliness from her book. It helps to have connections.
I have read that when Ian Fleming conceived of James Bond, he had David Niven in mind as the template. When he first saw Sean Connery in the role, he was horrified, as Connery was not the sort of upper class, educated-at-elite-schools sort that he imagined Bond to be.
Apparently, though, he came to appreciate Connery's portrayal.
""Oh, She's just a housewife". Good lord, that's the difference between real life and the movies. I don't remember ANYONE having that attitude when I was growing up."
1. You were protected from it because good housewives didn't air the angst about the "problem with no name" in front of the children.
2. You didn't grow up in the midst of NYC literati.
3. Even in the movie, the 4 sons were not able to see that there mother had a sadness like that inside. At one point, they're acting disrespectful and chaotic and she calls them "monsters" and then immediately said that she's the kind of person who loves monsters. The kids don't know. That's part of the struggle of the housewife, being with children so much of the time and needing to work out her psychological struggles on her own and without hurting them. And then when your husband gets home late or has to stay overnight in the city and you know he's around women who have more adult-oriented lives than yours, it's incredibly painful.
4. The fact that this was the subject of a mainstream movie back then is a big clue that it was a matter of concern to women back then.
5. I'm thinking about my mother's inner life, now. It was hidden from me. This is the extra step I need to take in my "imaginary movie project."
6. “The Feminine Mystique” — all about this topic — was a big bestseller in the early 60s. The women's movement followed. There was energy around this phenomenon that you don't remember anyone having.
For those too humorless to appreciate the crack about "veterinarians being somewhere between men and women," get a grip. It is a funny line, and it likely had greater resonance in the context of the times. It may have been a subtle joke to signal that she was a lesbian, or it may have been a joke about traditional gender roles: at that time, most vets were probably male, so a female in the job may have been suspect, (Is she competent? Why isn't she at home with her kids? Does she have kids? If not, why not?).
Even without knowing just how this line would have been interpreted by audiences at the time, given that those times are gone, it remains a funny line.
"It makes one think about what our kids were permitted to see when they were 5 or 6."
I think adult subject matter goes over the kids' head. That's what happened to me with this movie, and I was significantly older.
The problem is taking a child to the theater and expecting her to sit there and watch something incomprehensible. She thinks this will be fun, like "The Shaggy Dog" — and there's even a shaggy dog in this one. But it turns out to be long — almost 2 hours — and full of adults mostly talking to each others about things she doesn't understand.
Now, if you're watching movies on TV at home, the child can do other things the moment the movie is of no interest. There are toys and books and sleeping.
There must be some things the parents want to watch that they have to think about whether the kids should be "permitted" to see them. But I'm not saying there was any problem permitting me to see this movie, just a problem with making me behave in a theater seat for 2 hours looking at something I couldn't understand.
Lots of vets are lesbian, btw. Today, so probably then.
All the movies I saw as a kid had Dick Van Dyke in them, so they all get scrambled with My Mother the Car.
"Remember Niven was a presenter at the Oscars when a “streaker” ran across the stage."
He's so poised it almost seems planned. He has a witticism that sound pre-written: "Isn't it interesting -- the only way that man will get a laugh is by stripping off and showing his shortcomings."
It's great intersection of old and young. The naked guy is there to shock the old and be outrageous and free and Niven is all dressed up and has seen it all and comments dryly.
"I remember seeing both Pillow Talk and The Apartment and having no idea what they were about but I didn’t care as I just loved going to the drive-in. My parents never took us as we had 5 kids and I suppose the prospect was not at all appealing."
Yes, the drive-in worked as a way to bring the children to movies that weren't really for them. It was an outing, and they had a bad view in the back anyway. They had their coloring books or whatever and their blankets for sleeping. The parents had a quasi night out.
Earnest Prole said...
Trust me: Run, don't walk, to read David Niven's The Moon's A Balloon and Bring on the Empty Horses.
Agree.
"Here's my personal reflection of my earliest movie memory of David Niven: my folks took us to see "Around the World in 80 Days". I loved that movie - but looking back, the womanizing Cantiflas and the funeral pyre sequence with the Shirley McClaine character went right over my head. Will never forget David Niven strolling into the men's club at the very end (spoiler alert) just in time to collect on his bet."
In the book -- which I had to read in French in high school -- he thinks he's a day late but he's not, because he cross the international date line.
I've never seen the movie, but I'd like to watch it.
As for what I'm doing with this project, partly I'm just blogging movies as I blog movies (bloggily), but also I want to see what happens with the personal memories. And I just want a little movies-on-TV in my life and find more interest in re-seeing old things than taking a chance on something completely new.
" And I just want a little movies-on-TV in my life and find more interest in re-seeing old things than taking a chance on something completely new."
I would say you're finding interest in re-seeing old things with new eyes (I think that's what you're saying, I'm just restating to make sure I'm following correctly). Somewhat relating to the travel post yesterday: you are seeing in the movie where you have travelled in the space between viewings, and where the World of the Now has moved, too.
I am Laslo.
Doris Day is pointing out the shallowness of the interesting people. She is giving her husband a choice between the richness of a diverse life in the country or the petty monoculture of "intellectual" parochialism. The foolishness of intellectuals is a very old theme.
I was born in the mid-Sixties, but I prefer the banter between women and men in pre-feminism films to the dirge that followed. Doris Day isn't being defensive: she knows her value. She is more interesting than those wan theater types and knows it.
In a few years, cities will become so unlivable due to crime and decay and drugs that it won't matter what David Niven wants. This pre-divorce, pre-flaunting-promiscuity, pre-social decay world is technicolor for a reason, and it's a very interesting film for showing us precisely what we have lost -- in terms of male female relationships and the sanctity of marriage especially.
Also, sex is binary, but even way back then everyone knew that lesbian veterinarians existed. Maybe it's the heroic activist victimization narrative that merits reconsideration.
in the view of the subject, EVERYONE in Hollywood was an asshole and a phony, with the sole exception of David Niven, who was genuinely nice, kind, humble person.
Ian Fleming apparently would agree:
In the novel You Only Live Twice, Kissy Suzuki has a cormorant named David. In this conversation, Bond and Kissy discuss the bird:
‘So this is David?’
—
‘Yes. I named him after the only man I liked in Hollywood, an Englishman as it happens. He was called David Niven. He is a famous actor and producer. You have heard of him?’
—
‘Of course. I shall enjoy tossing him a scrap or two of fish in exchange for the pleasure he has given me in his other incarnation.’
This is Fleming being cute, of course. David Niven was his first choice to play Bond. (And did play Bond, after a fashion, in Casino Royale, three years after this novel was published.
"For those too humorless to appreciate the crack about "veterinarians being somewhere between men and women," get a grip. It is a funny line, and it likely had greater resonance in the context of the times. It may have been a subtle joke to signal that she was a lesbian, or it may have been a joke about traditional gender roles: at that time, most vets were probably male, so a female in the job may have been suspect, (Is she competent? Why isn't she at home with her kids? Does she have kids? If not, why not?). "
And there's the stereotype that lesbians have dogs. Veterinarian must have seemed like a lesbian job (like ornithhologist in "The Birds").
"I would say you're finding interest in re-seeing old things with new eyes (I think that's what you're saying, I'm just restating to make sure I'm following correctly). Somewhat relating to the travel post yesterday: you are seeing in the movie where you have travelled in the space between viewings, and where the World of the Now has moved, too."
Yes, it's like you never step in the same river twice.
It's very interesting to see what something looks like from the perspective of my own age and place in the flow of culture and history. When you're young, you don't have the depth perspective, because you only have your one point of view. It's so narrow! But very important, so important that I want to try to look back on myself and remember/imagine what I saw and combine it with what I see/what I am now.
"like ornithhologist in "The Birds"). "
Or the Beverly Hillbillies.
"I've never seen the movie, but I'd like to watch it."
"Around the World" the movie is fascinating because it was the product of one man: Mike Todd. He wanted to make it a spectacle, and he did, with location photography and a ton of cameos.
I also recommend Michael Palin's "Around the World in 80 Days" documentary, in which he kinda sorta replicates Fogg's journey. I saw it back in the early '90s on TV, bought the accompanying book (I'm a Python fan) and even read about it in Palin's published diaries.
I think it's the best of his travel docs, in part because of the tension he's under to keep traveling, keep moving, and meet his deadline. It takes place over seven episodes, and in one, he's on a dhow with a non-English-speaking crew, from Bahrain to India, and it gives you the idea of what it's like aboard a sailing ship where all you can see is ocean and all you've got is heat, reading, and Indian food.
The last part of the journey, when he's crossing the U.S. by train and taking a boat to Britain, leaves me nostalgic for that time. I feel like I'm briefly visiting my past, when I had dreams and youth and energy and the world seemed lit differently then. I won't say it was better (I'm not that foolish), but definitely quieter.
It is late in this post to start off on a tangent, but this ties in (for me) to something I have been thinking about as I watch old 'genre' or low-budget movies (part of something I have been writing in relation to the movies I make):
You often find out more about culture by the movies that did not try to be 'art', than the Oscar-style films.
They are not presenting a world as artistically perceived by the film-makers' intentions -- the world is happening in real-time in the background, unfiltered.
And -- because you are not expecting 'art', the offhand emotional pull can often get through your critical 'viewer persona' with greater ease, and leave a more abstracted memory.
This leads into discussion of a scene in 'Midnight Cowboy' that I will perhaps save for a later date.
Anyway.
I am Laslo.
One more note about the Palin doc: From watching the videos and reading the book, you could tell there were places where they were playing up the drama of the chase. I'm not saying they lied, but you can see the seams in the story. You can tell that, while it's being told from one man's point of view, there's also the camera crew following him everywhere, which affects how the story's being told (and who he encounters -- he meets a Python fan at Greece's tomb of the unknown solder, for example). There's also the might of the BBC behind him, that enables him to not only get into Saudi Arabia, by drive across it when he has to make a sailing.
But I watch the behind-the-scenes extras on DVDs so YMMV.
"They are not presenting a world as artistically perceived by the film-makers' intentions -- the world is happening in real-time in the background, unfiltered."
(to clarify: lofty intentions curated into the movie, explicitly directing you to how the world should be seen.)
I am Laslo.
I can see why readering would pass on a movie where you are not spoon fed meaning.
I saw Please Don’t Eat the Daisies years ago and have not thought of rewatching it but Althouse’s post and comments have made me reconsider. It sounds like an interesting document of certain NY and Hollywood conventions that were then prevalent. I do remember Doris Day locking her kid in the cage-like playpen. A mom could be arrested for that today, but it was, as I remember, just a joke in the film. Walter Kerr was a powerful theater critic of his day and Jean Kerr presented a breezy portrait of the wife of such a man caught between two worlds. I used to confuse Jean Kerr’s stories with Shirley Jackson’s, especially Jackson’s Life Among the Savages-although Jackson was a much more serious, talented and troubled writer. They both wrote stories for women’s magazines while living with men of huge egos and large reputations. Now I doubt many remember either man but Shirley Jackson is justifiably revered
Yes, it's like you never step in the same river twice.
Hillarious in context.
Althouse's experiment makes me wonder at what my daughter would be doing and thinking about some of the movies that I took her with me to see when she was young.
We saw The Color Purple in 1986 when she was 8 years old, because I really wanted to see it after reading the book and there was an actual real theater in our little town. In those days the idea of wait until the DVD comes out was unthinkable.
While it was a very very good movie. BUT.....it required a lot of 'splaing to my 8 year old daughter. The slavery, prejudice and how people are unfair and mean to people who don't look or act like them was easier than the rape stuff. Lots of 'splaining! I kind of regretted taking her to see that at the time.
I should ask her what she thought at the time.
This is Fleming being cute, of course. David Niven was his first choice to play Bond. (And did play Bond, after a fashion, in Casino Royale, three years after this novel was published.
My arithmetic may be spotty, Casino Royal the novel came out in 1953. Casino Royal the "mod" spoof premiered in 1967, making the interval 14 years. An American TV adaption aired in 1954 with Barry Nelson as American secret agent Jimmy Bond. (There was a Jimmy Bond character in the comedic 1967 film played by Woody Allen, whose secret secret identity was Doctor Noah.)
Before Dr. No. was produced Ian Fleming met with an artist working for Dell Publications, the house that purchased the paperback rights to Casino Royal. The artist wished to consult the author about a model for 007 to appear in the cover art. Fleming didn't agree with any of the portfolio photos the artist brought with him. Instead, he advised the artist to select a model who closely resembled the actor Richard Conte (Don Barzini in The Godfather) because he combined an air of sophistocation mixed with brutality that encapsulated Femingh's 007 character. That doesn't jibe with David Niven.
My parents took me to see Gone With the Wind when I was 10. I thought it would never end. But the leg amputation scene has stuck with me all my life.
Like Niven, my dad's participation in the Normandy invasion began a few days after the initial assault. He was a platoon leader in Co E of 2nd Ranger Bttn (which assaulted the Pointe du Hoc, as portrayed in Saving Private Ryan). The Rangers were expecting high casualties among junior officers, so they held my dad and a few others in reserve. He joined up with his platoon in time for the breakout into the hedgerow country and the Cotentin peninsula campaign, and won a Silver Star for his actions at Hill 400 in the Huertgen forest. My dad made the Army a career, serving in WWII, Korea and Vietnam.
A friend of mine who was a Vietnam vet and an amateur military historian talked at length with my dad and later remarked to me how difficult it must have been for my dad to have the 2nd Ranger patch on his uniform for the rest of his career and then have to explain to everyone that asked that, no, he was not part of the initial assault at Omaha beach. That had never occurred to me.
My dad never talked about the war with me except one time only a few weeks before his passing, relating a story to me that was truly appalling and evidently had bothered him all his life. On one hand I regret that I did not ever press him for war stories, on the other hand I could tell he just did not want to talk about those things, so I didn't pester him.
Same with my father-in-law, who served in the merchant marine during WWII and was on five (5!) ships that were torpedoed by U-boats in the north Atlantic.
I remember being very young and going to see Dumbo with my little brother. Everyone else in the family went off to some other movie in the 3-screen cinemaplex.
The preview was for Rollerball. For 90 seconds I was terrified we were going to have to watch the whole thing.
"I'd say a posh English accent does still mean something, but it's now a signifier of racist malevolence at worst or twit incompetence at best. And they have mostly themselves to blame."
Yes, because they control Hollywood, of course.
Oops. Misspelled sophistication.
chickelit!
IIRC, it's this movie that has a scene where an actress has Niven's character take a long, slow look at her backside because he'd panned it. Even as a young girl I thought that scene was sexy as hell. I enjoyed the movie, as I have all of Day's films because I just adored her and could not take my eyes off of her - she was so exquisitely beautiful to my eyes. She glowed.
CCB@934: you really think Hollywood is behind the posh-racist-twit meme?
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That u.c. Brits themselves had and have nothing to do with it?
GWTW! Lousy goddam fraud!
"You like the civil woah, don't you? This is a great movie about the civil woah!"
Like the stupid women knew anything. A bunch of talking and dancing, and a big fire.
I must have been dragged to it three times before I was able to effectively resist.
Almost put me off The Woah entirely.
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It was rereleased during the 1960s several times IIRC
Doris Day is at the height of her adorableness in Calamity Jane (1953), which also contains a frisson of the tom-boy.
"CCB@934: you really think Hollywood is behind the posh-racist-twit meme? "
Of course. Most Americans don't even know any British people, let alone English gentlemen and aristocrats. How do people get their impressions of others? At least in the days before social media, it was almost exclusively through MSM, and that mostly meant Hollywood movies and TV shows.
Laslo got me to thinking about movies I saw as a child that had a far different impact when I saw them a second time as an adult. Surprisingly, there are only a handful of such movies I can think of- most got a second viewing when I was teenager, not as an adult- or else I never rewatched them. The closest I can come to is Star Wars. I saw the movie the first time as an 11-12 year old, and didn't see it again until I was in my mid 20s (note, I had rewatched "Empire" and "Jedi" multiple times, but not the first movie).
On rewatching Star Wars, I didn't like it much- certainly not as much as I thought I liked it the first time. But here is the thing- I never wanted to rewatch it as a teenager- even as a lead in showing to the following two movies (both of which I loved a great deal, and do today, too). So, as a child, I must have at some level realized I didn't love the first movie because I had failed to rewatch it despite multiple opportunities to do so.
Here is movie I have never watched a second time- ET-The Extraterrestrial. Saw it in the theaters at age 16- have never watched it since because I hated it.
Janis Paige has outlived Doris Day. But a few months younger.
CCB@1020: The image pushed by "American MSM" in my lifetime (b.1953) was that of the heroic, stiff-upper-lip Brit seeing it through. As was intended by Hollywood, whose greatest contribution to the -Allied- war effort was the creation of favorable images of Britain and the Commonwealth and their struggle.
After this WW-induced coverage, Hollywood continued a generally favorable trend. Think of all the epics (international to be sure) that were made in the 1950s and 1960s with the willing participation of American money, actors and audiences.
The Brit-twit trope goes back at least to Wodehouse, and the Goon Show, Monty Python,
Cook and Moore, Benny Hill (and worse) were all self-referential; nothing to do with some supposed 'Merican prejudice.
Pompous twit Englishmen may be a staple of American humor, but the shows I recall not watching that were the most scathing were Are You Being Served? and Mr. Bean and the like--not US products.
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Read G.M. Fraser on that era, he was there
My arithmetic may be spotty
Or my writing-actually, my quoting without attribution; I'm a baaad-a boy. Point being, the quote with Kissy is from the later (1964) Bond novel, You Only Live Twice.
Quaestor, you misunderstood the original poster. The David Niven spoof Casino Royale came out three years after the book You Only Live Twice with the scene quoted. (Actually, my memory is telling me it might be more like five years, but I'm too lazy to check -- at any rate, the next to last Fleming Bond novel, rather than the first.)
I have to agree that Niven seems wrong for Bond, who IMO is kind of sophisticated but not at all aristocratic, but I've no idea what Fleming thought on the matter.
Bond middle class. Briefly attends Eton, but expelled for female trouble.
"Bond, who IMO is kind of sophisticated but not at all aristocratic"
I used to think of him that way, but really, Bond is just a horndog who likes fast cars. He's basically a hotrodder in his mid-thirties who knows which wine goes with fish. I think it's white wine, but I'm not sophisticated enough to know for sure, or care.
I think it's white wine,
Bollinger ’67! Bond films were big on product placement well beyond the cars. It’s part of the whole joke but still unironic money grubbing.
I remember going with my grandmother to see a movie in Galesville Wisc. David Niven was in it and he kicked in some televisions, I think more than one because he hated having the thing in his house. Thats all I remember about it. No idea what it was called. There were two movies a week and the other one we went to had Bridget Bardot and I had no idea what it was about. I was eight or nine. I suppose it was dubbed into English.
You didn't grow up in the midst of NYC literati.
LOL, That's an understatement!
I also recommend Michael Palin's "Around the World in 80 Days" documentary, in which he kinda sorta replicates Fogg's journey. I saw it back in the early '90s on TV, bought the accompanying book (I'm a Python fan) and even read about it in Palin's published diaries.
Agreeance on that. Its a great TV series. Palin did all kinds of good TV travel stuff. Pole to Pole is one. In another, he travels to all the places Hemingway lived.
it is said that bond is supposed to resemble this fellow,
https://blogs.iu.edu/aplaceforfilm/2017/11/09/the-cinematic-legacy-of-hoagy-carmichael/
the bond of the novels is about 42, at the time of dr. no, closer to roger moores age then sean connery, as you can see not really like either,
Bond was supposed to be Scots-Swiss, good with languages, Eton but no university, Royal Navy Commander (?--equiv of lt colonel), a bit of a sadist--enough to enjoy rough work and play anyway.
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The kind of man Fleming's readers wanted to be
Fleming's Bond was a more realistic figure (although the villians and situations weren't) - and modeled to a certain extent after himself.
Its hard to imagine Connery as a "Public School" graduate, but that's what Bond was supposed to be. I agree that Moore was closer to Fleming's ideal, but Moore was a little too soft and humorous to be Bond. IRC, all the quips and witticisms aren't in the Novel, they come from the movie scripts.
I'm sentimental about Connery's Bond, and haven't even seen some of the other Bonds. The franchise went far afield early, and they became exercises in filling plot holes with stunts.
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Craig seems a tad yobby to me
Interesting Jeffrey deaver did a more modern day incarnation of bond, a fmr royal marine, working for an organization called the odg
Roger Moore in a few of his earlier run, suggests he did go to university.
Tony Horwitz has written one set right after goldfinger and another a prequel to casino royale
The first has a Korean foe seeking revenge for the deeds inflicted against his family
Nobody said...
I think it's white wine,
Bollinger ’67! Bond films were big on product placement well beyond the cars. It’s part of the whole joke but still unironic money grubbing.
If you'll allow me, I think you're seeing this the wrong way.
Look at Ian Fleming's first novel, Casino Royale. In the dinner scene with Vesper Lynd, he puts together a very sophisticated dinner order with things like an alligator pear, which we now know as the avocado. Makes jokes about buggering flies with the barman.
But you have to appreciate is that in 1954, England was still under World War II food rationing. There was a great pent-up appetite for high living and the Finer Things in life, and Bond's knowledge and colorful appreciation of some of these things-his savoir-faire, literally his "knowing how to live" had a big appeal for his audience in grey, hungry Britain.
The film, let alone the publishing industry at that time was not yet so sophisticated as to be making deals with Vineyards and watchmakers for product placement. It was a simpler time.
Fleming had a smattering of university abroad hence his vast tranche of subject matter
Bond was a man of great forbearance. Look at the constant sexual harassment he endured from Moneypenny.
Tony Horwitz is dead! Just 60, and just in the last week.
I loved his Confederates book, and A Voyage Long and Strange.
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Damn
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