"... in which he planned to push the incoming Ukrainian government to press ahead with investigations that he hoped would benefit Mr. Trump. Mr. Giuliani, President Trump’s personal lawyer, explained that he felt like he was being 'set up,' and he blamed Democrats for trying to 'spin' the trip. 'They say I was meddling in the election — ridiculous — but that’s their spin,' he said."
The NYT reports.
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83 comments:
Let me guess, Victoria Nuland wasn't subjected to "withering attacks", was she? How about Hunter Biden?
The criticism is not without merit. If the Ukraine wants to investigate Biden, good. They should. But if they decide not to, it is not Trump's or Guilaini's place to encourage them.
Yes, finding evidence that your opponent colluded with a foreign government is seeking foreign assistance.
Transparancy!
Guliani knows better. He needs to direct his lawyer to hire a foreign agent to go to Kiev.
But, remember what is going on here. President Trump is doing to Biden, exactly what Biden and Democrats did to him. Smearing his reputation through innuendo. Biden, or anyone for that matter doesn't need to go to Kiev. The media has done the work for President Trump. The media is like a 2 year old. Easy to direct if you know what stimulus to use.
The criticism is not without merit. If the Ukraine wants to investigate Biden, good. They should. But if they decide not to, it is not Trump's or Guilaini's place to encourage them.
I like the part where Biden bragged about using US influence and money to force the Ukraine to fire a prosecutor investigating his son. So this is more of a Special Prosecutor thing from our point of view.
Make the Ukraine an offer they can't refuse.
Guliani knows better. He needs to direct his lawyer to hire a foreign agent to go to Kiev.
Well, you have to do it like Hillary did it, you need to create shell corporations.
Make the Ukraine an offer they can't refuse
That’s kind of what Biden bragged about.
You'd think a withering attack would go with a dry sense of humor.
Giuliani has done things like this before where he makes a show of trying to help Trump, but the effect is the opposite, he sabotages Trump instead.
Heads they win, tails they loose, the coked up princeling may not be touched.
Tails you lose, the slow walking of Greg Craig is also in the same vein.
Meddling in an election = how dare you do anything to stop the democratics from their rightful place on the throne.
Democrats can take in all the illegal foreign donations they need.
R's - you cannot talk to anyone. Ever. In fact - climb into the oven.
Rudolph was never going in the first place. Master troll move.
Election politics aside, there seems to be plenty of reasons to look into the activities abroad not only the Bidens, but also a number of other people.
Remember Lanny Davis and his Russian pipeline through the Caucasus?
I suspect Paul Manafort has ample grounds to complain of unequal enforcement of the laws. His transgressions may turn out to be fairly minor compared to those of Clinton Inc. and its associates and agents.
Yes he was working for firtash, aling with Michael chertoffthe subject of those Glenn Simpson pieces in the 00s, and he in turn is small fry compared to mogulich the chief vor.
iowan2 at 7:40AM got this right. This was nothing but a head fake all along, but it showcases the Biden family corruption.
They are just raising the issue to embarrass Biden.
His cokehead kid made a lot of money from the Chinese and Ukrainians. So Trump is going to hammer Biden with this.
Foreign governments buying influence. It’s one of Trump’s themes against Biden. Of course world leaders want Biden as President. They can buy him off. They already have paid the Biden Family over a billion by funneling it through the Cokehead Son.
Biden will of course invoke Dead Son every chance he gets. Dead Son is the one whose side Cokehead Son left his wife and family for.
Biden Family Values
But if they decide not to, it is not Trump's or Guilaini's place to encourage them.
Why ? Although I agree the media did most opt what was needed.
On MSNBC right now, they are going nuts about this. Isn’t it important to know if Ukraine paid Joe Biden’s son a whole bunch of money? Did Joe get some of the money?
Remember my pet theory:.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theepochtimes.com/is-mueller-probe-of-manafort-actually-looking-into-russian-oligarch-deripaska_2720188.html/amp
So, MSNBC, why did a Ukrainian gas company hire Hunter Biden?
And, MSNBC, what did Slow Joe Biden tell the Ukrainians, and why?
Giuliani also managed to get the video of Biden at Davos up again on all the networks, suggesting to US people interested in US politics that anyone dumb enough - and reckless enough - to go on a show filmed for an international audience and brag about this kind of behavior probably should not be encouraged to run for the Presidency.
On MSNBC right now, they are going nuts about this. Isn’t it important to know if Ukraine paid Joe Biden’s son a whole bunch of money? Did Joe get some of the money?
shhhhhh. All democratics are above the law.
Was the coup in Kiev an Obama, Clinton, Biden, or McCain operation? Was this a motive to stage a progressive coup in DC, and a multi-trimester cover-up carried out by the press?
Dems pretend they don’t know what quid pro quo means when it comes to their side.
One time in a deposition I asked a guy if he knew. No clue. But he owned part of a self-storage facility. Now he’s rich.
So if winer along with waldman had worked for Deripaska and the former had vouches for the dossier, we see the pattern dont we.
There is an interesting story here, and I don’t think that the Times got it. Maybe they didn’t try to.
The story would be, which competent legal/political advisor finally shut it down; how, and why? Over whose objections? With whose support?
Like Don McGahn’s opposition to firing Mueller. Like who pulled the plug on the Cain-Moore Fed nominations.
Who are the people who are now serving as Trump’s guardrails, and how are they doing it?
That would be an interesting story.
Firtash had been bribing inspectors in India, his that is our and not Vienna's business is an interesting question.
Withering attacks that don't involve physical violence is just Democratics objecting to Republicans.
So does this mean Victoria Toensing isn’t going either?
Yesterday I criticized Giuliani's parroting the word "meddling".
But the idea of slow-walking this Biden scandal makes more strategic sense, which would give credence to this trip being a head fake.
Bringing this scandal to the fore now so it becomes a festering, internecine Democrat primary issue indeed makes it way more damaging to all potential Trump challengers.
Assuming:
1. Trump is pretty street smart / media savvy, as is Alan Dershowitz...
2. Ukraine colluded in spygate, which sunk Manafort
3. Ukraine was anti Trump, and did what they could to help Hillary
4. Dershowitz going there would only be a photop, no real work would be done
5. Biden’s son had dirty feelings in the Ukraine
6. Ukraine is really corrupt
7. The US government has evidence of the above that can be declassified
Hypothesis:
Trump and Dershowitz got what they wanted, and this is more of Trumps rope a dope on the Democrats.
Clusterfuck, what else is new?
Well they got the Obama ambassador out,
Imagine a scandal - a legitimate scandal involving Democratics - that the MSM will not discuss. And now think of all the available methods by which you could get the MSM to mention the scandal. How could that happen?
Remember in 1984 when Reagan was accused of making old widows eat dog food? But when it was reported in the USSR the people thought "America is so rich they have separate food for their pets" and not "Reagan is a terrible person" that the state controlled media wanted.
The people consuming the news hear the signal through all the MSM noise.
Imagine a scandal so serious - involving Democratics - that even Royal ass Inga managed to hear/read about it.
Yeah, Giuliani is a bad representative of Trump. He must not be very smart. Run with that. With scissors.
"The NYT reports." Correction: The NYT lies.
Regarding another bribe:
https://nypost.com/2019/05/10/joe-bidens-china-policy-is-stuck-in-the-last-century/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=facebook_app&fbclid=IwAR0fhotq4JaUNUl0-kR358KeCST0LflmZ5y3gJUsNvEp1OLkLc5vzX9YN5Y
Giuliani should learn from the clintons and other mafia types. Make sure you get someone else to do it so you can deny it. That he takes the democrat propaganda seriously is upsetting. But republicans are pretty much pussies, so..
Why is Trump have such idiots for friends? So, Rudy couldn't have foreseen the Democrats and MSM would attack him? Is he fucking stupid? It reminds me of that other Trump friend Scarmoochie or whatever the fuck he was called. He pours out his heart to the NYT and then is amazed that they printed his words and made him look bad. What a boob!
"Like Don McGahn’s opposition to firing Mueller."
Supposedly McGahn refused Trump's request to say Trump was NOT guilty of obstruction. Well, that's not surprising, given McGahn had stabbed him in the back for almost 2 years.
Trump sure can pick them!
Scaramouche is still loyal, but the lesson is 'the beatings will continue...
If the Ukraine wants to investigate Biden, good. They should. But if they decide not to, it is not Trump's or Guilaini's place to encourage them.
But what if they’ve been coerced into dropping the investigation? But it’s safe for Guiliani to cancel the trip; I think the Ukraine got the message.
So who can you trust in DC, if you want to shake the town up.
Giuliani is a bad representative of Trump.
I don't think Rudy is a serious rep. He is the guy who makes a move to the door and the other guys freak out. Meanwhile someone else has snuck out the window and done the job,
He is pretty good on TV.
There are Russian and Ukrainian laws which are theirs to observe and execute.
Then there are U.S. laws which are our responsibility to look after.
Like I wrote yesterday, the proper way of dealing with the Ukranian/Biden scandal is to appoint a special prosecutor and staff the team with Trump donors and/or people who were invited to the Trump election celebration party from November 2016. We have established rules for these sort of political investigations, so let's use them.
Giuliani played this brilliantly, though. Look at the media and the Democrats- decrying the same process used by the Obama Administration and the Clinton Campaign on Trump. I don't think Giuliani ever intended to actually go to the Ukraine to do this- he simply trolled the media, and they took the bait.
EDH gets it above. The real goal here is to turn this scandal loose in the Democratic primaries. Look, Biden is skunking the field right now, so someone will take up the allegations against Biden- most likely Sanders and Harris. You won't see a repeat of Sanders' refusal to attack his primary opponent at the weakest spot. I mean, you literally have Joe Biden on video bragging about using his office in shutting down an investigation of his son's employers- it doesn't get more scandalous than that. Giuliani was trolling the media into paying attention to this, and it worked.
rcocean: "Why is Trump have such idiots for friends? So, Rudy couldn't have foreseen the Democrats and MSM would attack him? Is he fucking stupid?"
Hmmmm.
Has Rudy actually gone over there and dine this yet?
I am thinking "no".
But now the entirety of the lefty/LLR/feinting couch republicans have come out strongly against this very thing....that the dems actually did!!
But its Rudy who is supposedly dumb......
Yancy: "..it doesn't get more scandalous than that. Giuliani was trolling the media into paying attention to this, and it worked."
Not according to rcocean.
This thing that hasnt happened yet is now the newest official stupid thing the Trumpites have done...but havent done.
There seems to be alot of that going around.
Not only is Giuliani playing the erstwhile players, [witch, warlock] hunters, and other Democrat establishment menagerie, but he is also striking a blow on environmentalists and patron factions that persist to pollute the environment and/or shift the impact somewhere else while braying good perceptions.
"But its Rudy who is supposedly dumb......"
Reminds me of the bush administration. According to the apologists - Bush was ALWAYS playing 3-D chess and setting clever "Traps" - in order to explain every Bush sellout and stupid move.
Now, they're doing it with Trump. I suppose the whole Sessions-Rosenstein-Muller fiasco of the last 2 years, was all part of a 'clever troll' by Trump.
Trump's problem is that he really seems to trust people too much. He genuinely thought Paul Ryan was an OK guy and not a back-stabbing Globalist RINO.
He genuinely thought Rinse Previous and Sessions would by loyal and competent. He still thinks Turkey McConnell is on his side. Like Reagan, he's too trusting and nice.
rcocean,
Sure, it usually isn't 3D chess, but in this case, it obviously is. How do you make the media pay attention to the Ukraine/Biden scandal? By threatening to do exactly what the Democrats did to Trump vis a vis Russia, turning the criminal justice system lose on political opponents. It makes it harder to ignore this when the Biden's primary opponents start using the scandal to attack Biden- what can the media do then to stop it? And if Biden's opponents don't use it, then Biden is the nominee and Trump can use it in the general election cycle. I don't think Biden's Democratic opponents will fail to take it up, though- they have to take him down if they really want to win.
.ore oerspective:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/campaign/443234-trump-it-would-be-appropriate-for-me-to-talk-to-doj-about-investigating%3famp
I was a Rudy fan. Maybe I still am. But his work for Trump has been deeply unimpressive.
Biden's stunt in the Ukraine was a world class act of obstruction of justice.
Cowboy up, Rudy. Dems and the mediaswine only endorse such things if done surreptiously. Sane people understand that openly is fine. Ignore the evil ones!
Given the efforts being made to steer the story away from Ukraine (see, for instance, Chuck upthread), there must be real fear that this will hurt Biden if it gets looked into.
What if Rudy offered to embed reporters when jaunt off to Ukraine?
No leaks would be needed.
Who are the people who are now serving as Trump’s guardrails, and how are they doing it?
You obviously need guardrails more than Trump, Chuckles. The polls here have your popularity rating at minus 75%.
Maybe if you got off the sauce ...
rcocean said...
Trump's problem is that he really seems to trust people too much. He genuinely thought Paul Ryan was an OK guy and not a back-stabbing Globalist RINO.
He genuinely thought Rinse Previous and Sessions would by loyal and competent. He still thinks Turkey McConnell is on his side. Like Reagan, he's too trusting and nice.
****************
Yeah, and like that too-trusting Reagan, Trump never gets anything done.
Oh wait...
Rudy got the topic out in the public sphere. Everyone is discussing it. He never intended to go. Dems and Media played. Well done.
THEOLDMAN
rcocean said...
Why is Trump have such idiots for friends? So, Rudy couldn't have foreseen the Democrats and MSM would attack him? Is he fucking stupid? It reminds me of that other Trump friend Scarmoochie or whatever the fuck he was called. He pours out his heart to the NYT and then is amazed that they printed his words and made him look bad. What a boob!
Ummm...
I think you need to go back over what has happened so far and think about the results.
Rudy just aced Biden.
Biden will be done in months. But he wont go down without taking out the person who attacks him with this.
If Harris runs with this and trashes Biden Willy Brown will come up.
If Buttigieg takes Biden down with this all of the Black people who owned houses in South Bend that Buttigieg condemned and dispossessed will start getting air time.
If Robert takes Biden out then we will start hearing about Beto's Billionaire dadinlaw and where Beto's influence really comes from.
There are 20+ vicious little rats in a box. 15 of them can't get above 1%. Giuliani just doused the one on top of the mound with blood and honey.
rcocean said...
"But its Rudy who is supposedly dumb......"
Reminds me of the bush administration. According to the apologists - Bush was ALWAYS playing 3-D chess and setting clever "Traps" - in order to explain every Bush sellout and stupid move.
Now, they're doing it with Trump. I suppose the whole Sessions-Rosenstein-Muller fiasco of the last 2 years, was all part of a 'clever troll' by Trump.
When Bush went to DC he was on the DC team. They were all working together to the same goal.
Bush was never clever or tricky. He was always a traitor and on the other side.
One thing about the Bush episode was that you saw the true left. The Antifa left is a tool they use and fund but it is not completely under control.
The people who run the show, the Soros's and Redstones, control the Antifa left. They use it to keep their cuck Republicans and elected Democrats in line. They gave Harry Reid a treadmill for Christmas.
You obviously need guardrails more than Trump, Chuckles. The polls here have your popularity rating at minus 75%.
Still waiting for you to post your tax returns and medical records, Chuckles.
What are you hiding?
Achilles,
I wonder how much Soros charges the Demtards for his "Rent a Mob" program?
so it turns out the government of national accord in Libya, which controls probably as much territory, as the afghan govt, spent lavishly on Qatari representatives to represent them in dc, the sarraj op ed in the journal is emblematic,
I wonder how much Soros charges the Demtards for his "Rent a Mob" program?
I wonder if he charges the Democrats or the drug cartels for the "caravans?" He can't be doing it for free.
Facing withering attacks
Once again the media overstate their own importance.
I doubt Rudy cares.
He's only mentioning the attacks to highlight the double-standard for those who've yet to see it.
Clusterfuck, what else is new?
Is that a pet name for Joe, or Hunter Biden?
rcocean: "Reminds me of the bush administration. According to the apologists - Bush was ALWAYS playing 3-D chess and setting clever "Traps" - in order to explain every Bush sellout and stupid move."
So you are in retreat mode with not so interesting hot takes from your memory vault.
Rudy trial-ballooned an idea, not yet executed, which mirrored what democrat collusioners actually did.
The entirety of the left/LLR-left went to DefCon Eleventy at the mere suggestion that Rudy MIGHT do what democrats actually did.
My simply noticing that straight forward fact pattern is rebranded as asserting Trump is playing 3D chess by rcocean who apparently felt uncomfortable defending his earlier point.
I think we can safely assume what that means.
In any event, the facts still remain and it doesnt look good for Inga's Cokehead Hero Biden Boy.
Btw, why is Inga calling a Joe Biden threat to the Ukrainian govt in order to get millions of Russian-oligarch cash laundered thru Ukrainians and funneled into Biden Crime Family coffers during the obama admin a republican issue?
LOL
Because Poroshenko was a generally harmless regime that included the openly fascist swoboda faction in their coalition:
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/05/libya-hires-lobbyists-as-confusion-mounts-trump/
Ukrainr back then supported syria, and Iran it was the nexus of operation cassadra
https://irancommentary.wordpress.com/2019/05/10/irans-new-line-of-defense/
why is Inga calling a Joe Biden threat to the Ukrainian govt
Easy. Biden represents the proportion of Democrat voters that are not hyper crazy. Inga and AOC are appalled.
Oh well that's interesting:
https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/publication-of-manafort-payments-violated-law-interfered-in-us-election-kyiv-court-rules.html?fbclid=IwAR3_U1Ekp4QW9WEshz594m4izgbGK_-U83Nu_IOYyVzg8bm111g6K_H8g_k&cn-reloaded=1
I don't think Giuliani ever intended to actually go to the Ukraine to do this- he simply trolled the media, and they took the bait.
And it resulted in at least 20 minutes of CNN yesterday tut-tutting about how its wrong to send an agent of the government to a foreign country to dig up dirt on a presidential campaign.
Nice to get them on the record that that is bad right before evidence drops on Obama's administration doing just that.
"The NYT reports." = The NYT lies.
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