The pic tells the true story of Abby Johnson, who defected from Planned Parenthood to become a pro-life activist after witnessing an abortion at 13 weeks. Unplanned was partially financed by My Pillow founder Michael Lindell, who is a born-again Christian and outspoken supporter of President Donald Trump.Hmm. I have not been following the politics of the My Pillow guy, only muting/fast-forwarding his commercials while smiling at the (fake?) sincerity of a man who really loves his pillow. Now, I see it's a whole political thing. The pillow is soothing because it's got the religion-and-politics some consumers like. I'm sure there's a left-wing pillow out there too.
April 1, 2019
"'Unplanned' Box Office: Controversial Anti-Abortion Pic Surprises With Strong $6M Debut."
The Hollywood Reporter reports.
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1 – 200 of 232 Newer› Newest»Yes, there is a Left wing pillow. It was taken from someone else in the name of equality.
From Crack addict to millionaire. God Bless America.
Scott Adams said the My Pillow guy is a persuasion genius and promised a future analysis.
FWIW, the pillow guy is from Minnesnowta. Just giving the facts here, I would never brag like most Minnesotans do, where all the children are above average.
We need a federal judge to step in here and stop this heresy.
...while smiling at the (fake?) sincerity of a man who really loves his pillow.
The My Pillow "patented interlocking fill" truly makes it better than other pillows that I've tried for side sleeping. (I need to try the thinner one for back sleeping.)
That said, the subtext of the article is that this movie would never have been made but for the financing of this religious guy. Punish him commercially.
Wouldn’t any movie that had an anti-abortion message be “controversial”?
I’m probably sympathetic to the gist of this movie, but have no desire to see it.
Forever my question, That the killing of the unborn is considered controversial.
Deuteronomy 30:19,
Sometimes a pillow is just a pillow, it's not like a cigar, you know.
This is what the Leftists (and journalists) do with their pillows per David Burge:
"Journalism is about covering important stories. With a pillow, until they stop moving."
I have not been following
According to Twitter, both 185 thousand are following and nobody is yet following.
This on the heels of RottenTomatoes deleting bad user reviews of Captain Marvel.
It almost seems like the media industry is ok with fraud if it helps them and hurts those they don't like.
I too elided Mr. Lindell's commercials and his earworm jingle. But when his MyPillows appeared at Costco at a time when my wife needed a new pillow, I bought one each of the firm and the medium. We do love them. I still avoid his commercials but do still like MyPillow. Had no idea of his politics.
The Daily Wire has a story following Twitter’s censorship of the movie. They’re making it difficult/impossible to “follow”.
Hmm. I have not been following the politics of the My Pillow guy, only muting/fast-forwarding his commercials while smiling at the (fake?) sincerity of a man who really loves his pillow.
Those pillows have made him a very rich man; I'm guessing he really, really loves them. Several (maybe more) conservative talk shows have long featured his (awful) commercials.
Mr. and Mrs. Tank have them (at Mrs. Tank's request). She loves hers. I didn't like mine, but maybe a firmer one would have been ok. I like an inexpensive firm pillow that holds my head up when I sleep on my side.
I applaud his success in his pillow business. The sincerity is not fake. However, I tried his pillow and it didn't really work for me. This was all before I became aware of his politics. It won't be long before his pillows are banned in airports, campuses, and hotels. You won't be able to bring your own. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon/Bezos banned it from his website.
Apparently, we have lost moderation.
Here is some more perspective, not liberal perspective.
"After eight years at her clinic, Abby saw something that changed her forever. She was asked to assist in an abortion procedure by firmly holding the mother's abdomen during the probe on the ultrasound machine. She watched the screen in horror as she saw the image of a fully-formed baby fighting for her life while being systematically decapitated."
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/04/yes_go_see_emunplannedem.html
The support for a film that is not PRO abortion is surprising only to those who never leave their comforting leftist bubble echo chamber.
There are millions of people who find abortion, and especially later term abortion, to be horrific, abhorrent and immoral. The only sure way to support something that is anti-abortion is with your money and your foot traffic to the theater.
As the to the My Pillow guy, he probably is not faking his enthusiasm for his pillow. After all he is now very very rich after some pretty bad times due to the success of his pillow. I would be pretty sincerely jazzed too!!
Sure, his commercials are cheesy and dopey but there does seem to be a raw, unpolished happiness in them.
AND. The pillows are pretty good too.
I don't think the My Pillow guy outed himself as Deplorable until after he was fabulously wealthy. People really buy his shtick. I read a Bloomberg profile on him years ago and bought a pillow for my husband.
There was a Twitter controversy regarding the movie's Twitter account. People were following the account then, within minutes, without their input they were unfollowing the account. The follower numbers were swinging dramatically. Some said it was an algorithm problem, pro-lifers thought it intentional. There is also a story that no major network will allow the movie's advertising except FOX.
"We need a federal judge to step in here and stop this heresy."
It seems like there should be shareholder suits available for behavior like this. I can't imagine their public filings disclose plans to drive away half the potential audience.
If you get acid-reflux a.k.a heartburn due to TDS then MyPillow is for you to cuddle and have a soothing restful sleep so you wake up energized to repeat cycle.
TDS is recyclable and so is MyPillow.
Have to check out those pillows. After several times of having our feather pillows cleaned and relined over the past 40 some years, my wife decided to throw them away this time and replace them with pillows from Kohls. Still adjusting to that change in an attempt to make it right. Will have to check out this new breed of pillow - don't watch too much TV anymore so had not heard of "My Pillows".
She and my sister and a bunch of other ladies are going to see that movie tomorrow. Now I know what it is about. Will be an early showing, then maybe late lunch at Panera after.
Neither of us does Twitter, so we missed that dust-up.
AA said: " I'm sure there's a left-wing pillow out there too."
So am I. Is it comfy, Ann?
Good Lord, it’s a pillow. And a guy who has faith. Let it go, Professor.
You don’t need to search for a lefty pillow maker. Not everything needs to be politics.
I may have messed up with the quoting I made above. I meant to address the question of Twitter censoring the "follows" for the movie. Sorry.
"The pillow is soothing because it's got the religion-and-politics some consumers like. I'm sure there's a left-wing pillow out there too."
A left wing pillow would require affirmative consent to use it. Who wants that?
Why does or should it make any difference to a pillow purchaser what the politics or religious beliefs of the company owner might be? If you like the pillow but refuse to purchase one, then you're only depriving yourself of a nice and satisfying product to prove a point to no one but yourself. No one else cares about what pillow you sleep on, or don't sleep on.
Good grief.
This is a prime example of what my mom would have called, "Cutting off your nose to spite your face."
The left wing pillow is the one journalists use to cover important stories until they stop moving, according to David Burge.
The pillows that Bernie Sanders sleeps on are stuff with cash that was left over from the campaign.
... and no, they are not for sale.
"It seems like there should be shareholder suits available for behavior like this. I can't imagine their public filings disclose plans to drive away half the potential audience."
It's a privately held company.
You don't get down pillows off a wing, left or right.
But how do you get down off an elephant?
The guy has an interesting story; it'd be a shame to dismiss him as "the right wing pillow guy."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-01-11/the-preposterous-success-story-of-america-s-pillow-king
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/20/how-mypillow-founder-went-from-crack-addict-to-self-made-millionaire.html
Why is that opening a surprise?
How it’s being treated is not a surprise.
And TWITTER is banning it. They are scared because they do NOT want people to know the truth about abortion.
My friends rave about “My Pillow.”
(Was there a post in which AA announced the end of the cafe posts?)
Nothing controversial about allowing an unborn baby to come to term and be born. What should be controversial is the fact that the wholesale slaughter of pre-born infants has become defensible and acceptable in our society.
Ys, there is a left wing pillow out there comrade. It’s called the sidewalk.
The idea that people should get together and PUNISH a company or a product because you don't like the political or religious leanings of it's owners, seems to be mostly/originally a leftist movement. Chic-fil-A being a prime example.
When the other side takes a page from that playbook and supports the company, the SJW and leftist are shocked shocked I tell you. How dare people support things that the SJWs have deemed bad!
If Lindell wants to flaunt his born again Christian status by his blinding shiny cross......who can decry that....when the right of Muslims to garb themselves in head scarves and swath themselves from face to head to toe in garb that SHOUTS I AM MUSLIM is encouraged. Hypocrites. That's who.
To disparage Christians is okeydokey. To say anything negative about Muslims...you EFFIN RACIST!!!!
The left LOVE to go full Stalinist. It's not enough to disagree, they must destroy YOU for not following the church of the leftwing fascist.
That said, the subtext of the article is that this movie would never have been made but for the financing of this religious guy. Punish him commercially.
Agreed. This is what jumped out to me. Identifying the wallet behind the movie so that the Twitter Army can be mobilized for a hate 'n' harassment campaign. Pressure Costco and Amazon to stop carrying the pillows. Same shit, different day.
Btw, my spouse likes the pillow ok. I don't like that the branding shows through our off white pillowcases.
I feel like it's Christmas Day on Althouse. Haha. I can say whatever I want!
The left IS the party of hate and non inclusion. They even attack their own if they slip off the plantation. Glad I left them years ago. So much hate and intolerance.
Abby Johnson would be a celebrated whistle blower if she had worked for any company besides Planned Parenthood. The premise of the movie is pure Hollywood storyline.
I didn't know that the My Pillow guy was funding it. I have read several stories about the left opposition. For example, they could not license music for the movie.
I hate his ads but maybe I'll have to buy a couple of his pillows. The movie is in four theaters in Tucson this week and we will see it tonight.
But how do you get down off an elephant?
Trick question!
You get down off a horse, of course.
That is of course unless Jack helped you off the horse
Then would you help Jack off the horse?
(Was there a post in which AA announced the end of the cafe posts?)
No, but she probably got tired of us bitching about them.
"Now, I see it's a whole political thing."
Not sure how to parse that. Is his company part of this "whole" -- that his advertising pillows is actually a 'political thing'?
Perhaps Harvey Weinstein used MyPillow when evaluating talent for movies?
Anyway: the 'left' pillow. All I know is that it is probably uniquely suited for pillow-biting.
I am Laslo.
Is ending the cafe posts a curtailment of freedom of expression?
I NEVER, and I mean NEVER NEVER NEVER heard a supporter of Obama (or either Clinton, for that matter) described in any media outlet as "outspoken."
So I guess we’re not going to have a substantive discussion of Abby Johnson’s story, uncomfortable as it might be to feminists, in favor of castigating the man who funded it from his own pocket? How dare he!
"The guy has an interesting story; it'd be a shame to dismiss him as "the right wing pillow guy.""
I'm not dismissing him. I just know the kind of people who would refuse to buy the pillow because of the politics.
Wow AA got pancaked!
@nob490 - you are starting to see who AA truly is.
AA is a lifelong liberal social progressive. They have ruled our culture for the last half century. Whenever their doctrine is being threaten they turn from a supposed "intellectual" being to a snarky fox. She knows full well intellectually that killing an unborn child is wrong, selfish and cowardly.Go read who Roe was in the pivotal Roe vs Wade case. But her ilk have to ensure "group think" in order to survive. What you saw by her was a display of cultural marxism .
Is it political to try to convince people not to have abortions or to examine someone who changed her mind about it? To a few, it's blasphemy.
"After several times of having our feather pillows cleaned and relined over the past 40 some years, my wife decided to throw them away this time and replace them with pillows from Kohls."
What about her mother's feathers?!
I'm not dismissing him. I just know the kind of people who would refuse to buy the pillow because of the politics.
Et tu, Brute?
You don't get down off an elephant, or a horse. You get down off a duck (or a goose).
As a right wing knuckle dragging fascist rethuglican hater I’m in favor of abortion. I know the demographics.
Sarc/off.
What I really think? It’s mostly retroactive birth control for lazy irresponsible people. But since they are lazy and irresponsible to begin with their kids are likely to be the same.
The twitter thumb on following was very blatant.
Taking away all the followers for a while. Making it impossible to follow. Screenshots and videos out there. My guess is pretty easy for twitter to do this type of good double think.
She knows full well intellectually that killing an unborn child is wrong, selfish and cowardly.
You might want to go back and read posts and responses from Althouse on the choice/abortion issue. On my phone and that makes it more effort than I want to put in, but you might not want to accuse her of intellectual dishonesty.
Disclaimer - I abhor the selfish, "easy" abortion "solution" that now permeates our culture. It's vile, and we should be horrified that as a species we have sunk so low.
Is there any proof that Mr. Lindel is not sincere? It even seems kinda ridiculous to believe he would not be sincere about thinking his invention is great, is proud of it and it's success, and wants you to buy it. I have one and it does exactly as advertised, despite my initial skepticism and unhappiness about the price. I have now saved money by not buying a new pillow in 3 years, and yes, "getting the best sleep of my life". My chronic neck pain went away and never returned. It's an incredibly simple, yet effective design. A perfect innovation. His other products are just me toos, but you can't expect that kind of genius to strike twice. I'm not religious, and we would probably disagree about a lot, but I like the guy. He sold me on his pillow and himself, but that's only becuase I was open-minded despite my skepticism. Winning!
“I'm not dismissing him. I just know the kind of people who would refuse to buy the pillow because of the politics.”
Good Lord! “Asking for a friend?” Really Professor?
You were most certainly dismissing him. This comment is the giveaway.
Look in the mirror.
"...than I want to put in to link.
I just know the kind of people who would refuse to buy the pillow because of the politics.
So do I. I call them "neighbors".
The one thing I'm blessed with is an easy ability to sleep. I don't need a special pillow, a special bed. Nothing. Some day that may be taken away from me, my special ability, and I'll be one cranky cranky old guy.
It's good for Hollywood types to recognize and be exposed to the idea that the wholesale slaughter of unborn babies might not be a good idea for humanity.
I say this not as a Pro-Life zealot or a highly religious Christian. I am neither.
I hope Pillow Guy has already sold a lotta pillows. Ya gotta make a lotta shekels (like Dominos Pizza Guy) to do heroic stuff like this.
Sure, his commercials are cheesy and dopey but there does seem to be a raw, unpolished happiness in them.
In Houston, we have Jim "Mattress Mack" McIngvale, who started his business with cheesy and dopey commercials with tag "save you money", where he would say after pulling a few dollars out of back pocket and jumping while declaring the tag. Radio and Television networks hated the cheesy ads, but he kept them up; because customers only cared about the services. A lot of people would avoid his business, because of the "low class" of his commercials.
30 years later; he has better commercials but the same tag line. He is also considered one of the most respected persons in the city. During Hurricane Harvey, he opened his showroom as a shelter, which was probably his most visible charitable work during that event but hardly his biggest offering in terms of real dollars. Being the respected business person that he is; he certainly is involved in politics, but those views are not highlighted by him or his business. His most vocal opinion is how to manage a business; for which he is a strong believer in the methods pioneered by W. Edwards Deming.
I'm not dismissing him. I just know the kind of people who would refuse to buy the pillow because of the politics.
It's good that you're not dismissing him, since that would be a shame. It's good to avoid things that are a shame when they're avoidable.
And sure: we all know those kind of people!
With the left wing pillow, they give it to you free, but it turns out to be not what you wanted. Then they charge your kids for it and take away their jobs.
I do NOT agree with the Ben and Jerry guys politics AT ALL. BUT....I STILL buy my "Coffee, Coffee, BUZZ, BUZZ, BUZZ ice cream that they make because it is the best ice cream ever. I do not ban ANYBODY or ANYTHING. It's childish.
Lindell is a Minnesota guy, as has been previously mentioned. He's never hidden his faith -- he wears a cross all the time.
"surprises"
Unexpectedly, as Instapundit says.
No unexpected surprise to deplorables, of course.
This story isn’t about blasphemy.
It is about apostasy.
Details.
I started with one pillow then added another and another and another! They wash well and can go in the dryer. They work for me. Mr. Lindel's ads are certainly effective. I listened to an interview with Sean Hannity and was impressed by his story but I didn't know he was politically active until I heard he was a speaker at CPAC. Glad he financed this movie. It is a story that needed to be told. I am sure he is aware of the fresh pile of trash being dumped his way.
People are thinking that the moderation randomly disappeared.
You should know by now that isn’t how Ann does things.
It won’t be long until we disappoint her though.
We’ve had the My Pillows for about four years and love them!
Looking to reviews from those of you attending the movie- I’m afraid if I go it will haunt me - unfortunately the people who NEED to see it and frankly NEED to be haunted by it won’t go.
@WendyBar,
"I do NOT agree with the Ben and Jerry guys politics AT ALL"
Yeah! Why doesn't fellow Vermont socialist Bernie Sanders hammer these multi-millionaires for exploiting the low paid ice-creamers at their company?
Talk about cheesy and dopey commercials
CAL WORTHINGTON and his dog Spot!
So bad that the commercials became a cult viewing must. Especially at night after a few drinkipoos or other adult substances..
Go see Cal! Go see Cal!
Same sort of innocent dopey quality and fun to watch.
(sorry reposted due to bad link)
Bravo to Albert Anonymous comments this morning!
If the “folks” who support a woman’s right to choose had to view the sonogram of an actual third trimester abortion half of them would puke.
The My Pillow man is a former drug addict, so maybe he got his great idea from drugs, just like Althouse. I hope she writes a best seller.
"Look in the mirror."
I'm afraid to. The last time I did, Mike Lindell was staring back at me, and then I kept waking up every 20 minutes with the same nightmare.
The nightmare was Mike Lindell smothering me with His Pillow. I'm not sure if it was real or not.
I think they got the semantic sense reversed. Planned implies life deemed unworthy, selective-child, and cannibalized-child. Unplanned implies that she lives to see her birthday.
Science is inconvenient. The consensus believes that human life begins at viability. In Stork They Trust.
Human rights is controversial. Anti-slavery was controversial. The Republicans stood against slavery.
Civil rights is controversial. Anti-diversity is controversial. The Republicans stand against diversity including racism.
Hopefully, the Republicans will, once again, stand against age discrimination, summary judgments, and cruel and unusual punishment, Pro-Choice, the "wicked solution".
#HateLovesAbortion
This reminds me of the first time the walls fell, the veil was lifted, and a movie was exhibited that documented the National Socialists' "final solution". It was controversial. Unbelievable, really. The millions of unworthy human lives, the experiments, for social and medical progress.
If you find the commercials dopey, then maybe you aren't sophisticated enough to know when the thing is so well-crafted it convinces you of exactly what it intended to. It's effective becuase it does that.
I see the one with Lindel in the medicine cabinet and I think: these people are not surprised to find a man in their bathroom, but only that it's Lindel in their bathroom? My first question would be: "How the hell did that hole get in the wall?"
LOL-AA outs herself, again, as a brainwashed liberal academic confused about what the average American actually believes in. The nastiness of attacking the "My Pillow" guy drips with sarcasm. Truly unbelievable how disgusting the Left has made our national dialogue.
Go see Cal!
The hook is the hook; and hooks work to bring them in.
For me, I'm avoiding the abortion discussion hook. I think the law in Texas is as close to perfection a government can get, so there's no need to fuss about other state's, and Trump isn't doing anything to change the Texas law.
Bagoh20 I see the one with Lindel in the medicine cabinet and I think: these people are not surprised to find a man in their bathroom, but only that it's Lindel in their bathroom? My first question would be: "How the hell did that hole get in the wall?"
That's part of the dopey charm :-) The total comic unreality of the commercials. We love the catch phrase he does when the people are grateful for his wisdom and how much better they feel..
"I knew you would!" . When my husband agrees with me on some dopey point I am making (or me agreeing with him) we say that phrase in Lindel's intonation and accent. :-)
The MyPillow guy has a cameo in the movie, which we didn't like, but it's just a few seconds.
Otherwise, I highly recommend this movie. We are admittedly pro-lifers, but felt that the movie came off as authentic. I would respectfully challenge anyone who thinks they know what's in this movie to go see it. Abby Johnson was a committed PP clinic director who worked there very comfortably throughout being pregnant with her first child. There are bad actors (the nasty anti-abortion protesters included) on all sides.
The first 10 minutes are not for the faint of heart. I could barely watch and my husband and I were both sobbing. Yes, it shows an abortion from the view of the ultrasound screen and the suction tube. Did we need to see that? I think so.
The story offers a perspective of grace and forgiveness. Not condemnation. The PP side of it is very heavy handed, but in my mind, how could it not be if their behavior/business model portrayed in this movie is at all true?
Please go see it if you are at all on the fence. I'd recommend it even if you are staunchly pro-choice, but open-minded.
And how long did Lindel stand there waiting for them get up? All night? Then he gets in bed with the guy's wife with the husband standing there. And the wife is way too attractive for that guy. That takes me right out of the make believe.
The doctor in the movie is a former abortionist.
Read reviews it was well written and not hokie Christian. In fact it portrays prolifers poorly. You know the ones screaming and cursinv clinic workers.
Please go see it if you are at all on the fence. I'd recommend it even if you are staunchly pro-choice, but open-minded.
I am pro-choice and have done abortions many years ago (for which I was scolded by, of all people, Inga).
I'm fine with first trimester abortions, not for birth control, but for stupidity or rape or some other inadvertent incident.
I've seen women die of illegal abortions before legal abortion, which in California was 1969, not Roe v Wade.
I would be content with a reversal of Roe v Wade, which was a terrible decision. Abortion was already legal in some states and the decision has poisoned our politics for almost 50 years. If it were reversed, abortion would be a local choice and there would be very few states where it remained illegal.
We will see the movie tonight.
I heard it described as not really a downer as expected and even uplifting. I would have to go see this alone. The women I know are disgusted by recent laws allowing late term abortions, but are so adamantly pro choice that they probably would refuse to go see it. We agree that abortion should not be banned, but that 3 months is more than enough time to decide. What you do with people who would go past that is the really hard part. Nobody wants to punish a woman, even if she kills her unborn child, and it's against the law.
I think the more interesting aspect of the Unplanned movie is not its sponsorship or advertiser boycotts (both of which are par for the political course), but rather that it received an "R" rating for "violence." Think about it, and keep in mind that the controversy is not about whether they are accurately depicting an abortion. The violence is that it is being shown on screen.
Agree with the three month rule. Frankly, in this age of cheap, safe contraceptives, why should anyone have a unwanted pregnancy? Yes, I understand nothing is 100% fool proof and accidents happen , but I doubt most women having abortions are getting them because the condom failed.
The way some people talk, you'd think having an unwanted pregnancy was like catching a cold. No, you need to have unprotected sex. Its almost a deliberate choice.
I've seen women die of illegal abortions before legal abortion, which in California was 1969, not Roe v Wade.
Why have an illegal abortion, when you can put the baby up for adoption? In any case, the matter should be left up to the states, and you can be sure California in 2019 will not only vote for abortion, they'll vote for infanticide.
Tank said...
Apparently, we have lost moderation.
4/1/19, 8:09 AM
Nope, you are being "shadow banned". Nobody sees your comments, except you. April Fool's joke from Meade and AA
"I'm sure there's a left-wing pillow out there too."
***********
Yes, it's been around for a while.
But somehow the "Feculent and Drooled-upon Pillows Я Us" branding never caught on.
Is there a left-wing pillow? Of course. Just throw yours away and take Meade's pillow.
Down pillows are filled with feathers taken from dead birds.
Foam pillows use petroleum products to create plastic foam fillings.
Pillow talk has been replaced by consent forms.
There is no such thing as a left wing pillow. Progressives don't use pillows.
Florence is correct- the R-rating the movie received is what is most interesting here. The people gave it this rating are so fucking clueless it is astounding- talk about self-incrimination.
I've been with AncestryDNA.com for a long time. I never thought about it before joining them, but it's almost hard to believe how many cousins I ended up having that were adopted. I'm so happy for all of those new cousins.
@Michael K, 50 years ago people died from of all sorts of stupid things. Why would that be relevant now?
Oh, I would love to read Michael K and bagoh20's thoughts after having seen the movie. There are so many things I learned from the movie that I didn't know and feel I needed to know to be fully informed.
but it's almost hard to believe how many cousins I ended up having that were adopted.
PBS Masterpiece last night was about that, but closer. Certainly easier to deal with a generation later.
It's odd that abortion became a big issue after childbirth became so much safer and contraception available. We know about Roman "exposure" and child religious sacrifice, but was infanticide a bone of contention in past centuries?
And if you DON'T like your MyPillow it has ten year warranty. Ten years! I might buy his sheets too. Because I did buy the Boll & Branch set and my wife and I were very impressed. Best sheets ever. But he says his are just as good so...
I just noticed on "Rotten Tomatoes" that it gets only 56% positive reviews from the critics but 94% positive reviews from the audience.
By the way, I was always accepting of the first trimester too, not supportive of it, but accepting it as a compromise to banning, but after seeing this movie, I am rethinking the first trimester now.
It's just such an emotional subject for all sides, as it should be, but in my heart I feel it is so wrong and should be so rare. People who feel like I do have been completely run over in the debate and now look where we are. Allowing the born alive to be killed.
I'm disgusted with myself that I haven't done more. There are people on the front lines of this taking all kinds of abuse trying to not only save babies but save mothers from a lifetime of guilt and regret.
Go see it. Let's talk after. Somewhere. Somehow.
Blogger JHapp said...
@Michael K, 50 years ago people died from of all sorts of stupid things. Why would that be relevant now?
You gotta explain what that means. Lots of murders 50 years ago, too. I just read Ann Rule's book on The Green River Killer.
"Poisoned politics" is not a problem? I'm stumped.
Who goes to see this? My wife and I were wondering that after listening to an interview with the real-life protagonist. Pro-choice people don't want to see that and pro-life people also don't want to see that! Who's left? People who just randomly enter the theater?
I am rethinking the first trimester now.
I could tell you a few stories about women who were desperate and had illegal abortions,. I remember one girl whose boy friend was a UCLA medical student. He used green soap to cause abortion (squirting it into the vagina) which causes massive hemolysis.
I didn't put those stories in my memoir book. I try to forget them.
We'll see the movie at 4:15 PM today.
I hate his ads but maybe I'll have to buy a couple of his pillows.
I've heard interviews with him and now know his backstory. Now I'm not even spiritual, much less a born-again, but I find people who have a conversion go from bad to good so I'm all for it.
So when I saw a commercial for his new Egyptian cotton sheets, I decided to support his venture and ordered a queen size set. I must admit I am very pleased. Quite oversized so I have no problem with the fitted bottom completely covering the mattress and they feel better than the Brooklinen sets I had bought previously. (and $50 cheaper. Around $100 vs. $150)
I fully support the cause and message of the movie, but not sure if I’ll see it or not. I have problems getting certain visuals out of my head and just from the research I did on partial birth abortion 15 years ago, I have enough mental images to last a lifetime.
As usual the most interesting topic here is not the movie itself but the overreaction to it. Predictable and SO boring. Do they think they’re winning converts with the Stalinist propaganda approach?
See, there’s this thing called the Internet ...
The main thing is to repeal Roe v Wade. Terrible decision.
Then, many states will keep abortion legal (Cal, NY) and some will impose restrictions, and it will sort itself out at the ballot box -- like most important issues.
“I am pro-choice and have done abortions many years ago (for which I was scolded by, of all people, Inga).”- Michael K
I scolded you for being a hypocrite. You performed abortions and still are pro choice, yet you don’t hesitate to use broad brush condemnation toward other pro choice people. My stance on abortion has pretty much been the same in the 8 years I’ve been commenting here. I think that by the 20 week, the great majority of women know they are pregnant and the great majority who go on to have an abortion is even earlier. So abortion beyond the 20th week should be illegal and health exceptions should be allowed.
I have four children of my own and five grandchildren and I’d discourage any women I know from having an abortion, but to outlaw abortion and force a women to carry a baby would be an entirely new set of horrors. Who would make sure they carried the child and wouldn’t get an illegal abortion? The Baby Police? Big government anyone? What do people expect to accomplish with this movie? I doubt that anyone doesn’t realize what abortion is, the killing of a living being.
As for My Pillow and the owner sponsoring the movie, who cares? He has a right to spend his money as his conscience dictates.
Inga- why are leftists so afraid of watching an abortion? Or learning that a once pro-abortion individual who worked for PP changed her mind. Could it be that it might encourage some people to re-think the procedure on a personal level, and that very introspection is considered a threat to the mind-crime hivemind leftist collective?
If it comes out the Lindell donated to Covington Catholic High School his life could be in real danger.
If funding a movie on this subject in light of the dems moving towards 4th Trimester Infanticide in bills across the country (take a look at Illinois for their latest lefty/dem/LLR version of this) isn't enough to get another Hodgekinson to take notice, giving money to conservative catholic high schools should just about do it.
And have you seen the pre-attacks on Catholic Judge Amy Coney Barrett by these horrific democrats?
Meanwhile, the clear anti-semitism that grips the lefty Labor party in Britain and with establishment left parties across Europe is now fully ensconced in the Dem/LLR party in the US.
It's all of a piece, isn't it?
I think that by the 20 week, the great majority of women know they are pregnant and the great majority who go on to have an abortion is even earlier. So abortion beyond the 20th week should be illegal and health exceptions should be allowed.
That's a silly reason to be against abortion. You really can't think of a better one?
Do women know that intercourse carries a risk of pregnancy? Do women know that birth control isn't 100% effective? Did they CHOOSE to accept those risks anyway? Then they have made their choice about what to do with their own body.
And when they CHOOSE to roll those dice and they come up snake eyes? That's another body, not their own, it has it's DNA. They should have no more right to kill it than I have to kill you.
I doubt that anyone doesn’t realize what abortion is, the killing of a living being.
Most women don't. In fact, the premise of the movie is of a women who didn't understand what a horror she was supporting until she encountered it first hand.
“Inga- why are leftists so afraid of watching an abortion? Or learning that a once pro-abortion individual who worked for PP changed her mind.”
Why do you think they are? I’ve seen what an abortion looks like on film. Why should anyone find it objectionable that this “pro abortion” individual changed her mind. I don’t blame her, I’m sure it was horrid. As I said I would NEVER choose abortion.
“Could it be that it might encourage some people to re-think the procedure on a personal level, and that very introspection is considered a threat to the mind-crime hivemind leftist collective?”
As I said, anyone old enough to have an abortion probably knows full well what happens during an abortion. If the woman having an abortion doesn’t care enough about the life within her, do you think that forcing a movie like this onto her will change the majority of women’s minds, who seek an abortion? Sadly, no it won’t. I’d say let the movie be seen, but I doubt it will accomplish what you think it will.
Ah, freedom. This is what it will be like when all the Marxists are slaughtered.
@ Inga... ["...do you think that forcing a movie like this onto her.."]
Who is forcing anyone to see this movie, Inga? NO ONE. In fact, when it comes to "force" the force is coming from the left as they make dang sure this movie is not in any blue-city theaters.
The "It's just a clump of cells" propaganda keeps a lot of women unaware of what goes in with an abortion.
“That's a silly reason to be against abortion. You really can't think of a better one?”
It’s “silly”? I guess that you don’t realize that a baby born at 21 weeks can be saved. Also, the nervous system is much more developed, that feeling pain is a possibility.
As for the rest of your commentary, it’s so stupid it’s not worth responding to.
"but I doubt it will accomplish what you think it will."
Check upthread. There's already two who have changed their position after watching it. |
I'm reminded that the entire Kavanaugh witch hunt was launched by those who worship at the Altar of Abortion. Why were we surprised these cretins would stoop so low to protect their right to kill their own babies?
I know women who have had abortions. They aren't proud of abortion. They remind me of Marines who don't want to discuss with civilians how many they've killed or how it felt. They are haunted.
"It’s “silly”? I guess that you don’t realize that a baby born at 21 weeks can be saved. Also, the nervous system is much more developed, that feeling pain is a possibility."
Read slower. The point is that you premise your position on whether a woman knows.
"As for the rest of your commentary, it’s so stupid it’s not worth responding to."
ie, you can't respond to it, because it takes your own argument further down the path of what a woman knows. Here it is again. Try harder:
|
"Do women know that intercourse carries a risk of pregnancy? Do women know that birth control isn't 100% effective? Did they CHOOSE to accept those risks anyway? Then they have made their choice about what to do with their own body. And when they CHOOSE to roll those dice and they come up snake eyes? That's another body, not their own, it has it's own DNA. They should have no more right to kill it than I have to kill you."
Inga:
I encourage you to see the movie. There are a lot more reasons to see it beyond the horror of the actual procedure.
I think it is worthwhile to talk about the business of abortion, and what that means for the "care" that women get at PP. The actual procedure wasn't the only portion my husband and I found ourselves sobbing at. We have loved ones who have been through this. We think they have been lied to. Isn't that worth debate? Are there lies women are being told at PP and other clinics? If there are, would you call that "care" or a business decision for profit?
"...the premise of the movie is of a women who didn't understand what a horror she was supporting until she encountered it first hand." Perfectly said.
And I have to say how incredibly ironic it is to be debating women's reproductive rights when men have none.
Do you want a Caliphate because this is how you get more Caliphate :)
“I encourage you to see the movie. There are a lot more reasons to see it beyond the horror of the actual procedure.”
I will, I promise. I have seen abortion on film before and it hasn’t convinced me that outlawing abortion would be a good thing. Women will continue to seek abortion. It will not stop. I think you must realize this. As I said, because I am pro choice doesn’t mean I’m pro abortion. Neither is Michael K, who actually performed abortions. One would think that being someone who actually PERFORMED abortions, he would become anti abortion. But in Michael K’s case it DID NOT. Why do you think that might be??
Self-moderation and personal responsibility. We know that human evolution begins at conception. Women, and men, have two moral choices: abstention and prevention. The third choice, the ethical alternative, is Pro-Choice, is a "wicked solution", unless performed in self-defense. Selective-child has a few notable precedents in the first-world and many more in the third-world.
The issue for civilized society is whether planned parenthood should be normalized, tolerated, or rejected. Today, it is normalized. Furthermore, under the Twilight Amendment, the Pro-Choice doctrine is not limited to selective-child, cannibalized-child, but has progressed to rationalize other selective, opportunistic choices that deny life, deny dignity, deny opportunity, deny rights, deny responsibility, deny science, etc.
That said, the "final solution" is documented in movies with ambiguous effect. Documentation of the "wicked solution" will enjoy the same success and failure.
Who would make sure they carried the child and wouldn’t get an illegal abortion? The Baby Police? Big government anyone?
Our society already has laws against murder and people who enforce those laws against murder.
Why do people on the left assume that Big Government refers to a portfolio conservatives are already comfortable ceding to the State. Anti Big Gov does not mean anarchy.
"Women will continue to seek abortion. It will not stop. I think you must realize this"
Men still hunt and murder each other, despite laws against homicide. Should we repeal those laws since making murder illegal "will not stop" them?
I scolded you for being a hypocrite. You performed abortions and still are pro choice, yet you don’t hesitate to use broad brush condemnation toward other pro choice people. My stance on abortion has pretty much been the same in the 8 years I’ve been commenting here. I think that by the 20 week, the great majority of women know they are pregnant and the great majority who go on to have an abortion is even earlier. So abortion beyond the 20th week should be illegal and health exceptions should be allowed.
When Texas was making Inga's "stance" into law and Wendy Davis was filibustering to stop the law; Inga's stance in the comments section of this blog was a bit more nuanced, as in she backed Wendy Davis. That was 6 years ago, but only Inga seems to be counting.
Inga said: "Why do you think that might be??"
I don't know. What I do know is I just watched a true story of a woman who spent years in the abortion industry changed her mind completely. I would love to change a more hearts and minds so that one day soon abortion truly is safe, legal (if we have to) and RARE, because we finally understand how immoral and dehumanizing the whole process is.
We are heading in the exact opposite direction right now.
*change not changed
Why do you think that might be??
Why are you a dense idiot ? Dropped on your head ? A friend of mine did his internship at Charity in New Orleans.
He told me that every time someone dropped a newborn during delivery (They are very slippery), he would say, "There's another Democrat. Were you born at Charity ?.
Every blue shirt commercial, photograph and video of him displays his crucifix. He's a believer as well as a doer. His pillows are the greatest I've tried. His trial period is for real, as we had to go through several iterations to get the ones we have. They were very pleasant to deal with. Mike heard the movie needed a financial boost, and he kicked in. The wife and I went to see Gosnell The Movie, which was scripted from the police interrogation and the trial transcript. A no B.S. look at a guy who was snipping live birth babies spinal columns for YEARS. Sometimes leaving the wailing baby in a bathroom sink to die. Mengele's apprentice. Lots of pro choice catholics I know wouldn't go see it. Suffer the little children to come unto me.
but to outlaw abortion and force a women to carry a baby would be an entirely new set of horrors. Who would make sure they carried the child and wouldn’t get an illegal abortion? The Baby Police? Big government anyone? What do people expect to accomplish with this movie?
All of these supposed problems exist in the current legal framework she claims to support. If they are such insurmountable problems why does she support this framework? Who makes sure women don't have third trimester abortions without meeting the appropriate legal requirements? Do we call these people the baby police?
This inability to understand the principles underlying her supposed positions and reasoning show they are just post-hos rationalizations.
We are heading in the exact opposite direction right now.
Not according to polls. Democrats are on the wrong side of that one.
“When Texas was making Inga's "stance" into law and Wendy Davis was filibustering to stop the law; Inga's stance in the comments section of this blog was a bit more nuanced, as in she backed Wendy Davis. That was 6 years ago, but only Inga seems to be counting.
On February 11, 2014, Davis said that she would have supported a ban on abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy, if the law adequately deferred to a woman and her doctor. She said she found the ban on abortions after 20 weeks to be the "least objectionable" provision in the abortion bill she filibustered last year.[72]”
Wiki
Michael K: Legally we are headed in the wrong direction (outright infanticide in some states), but I do believe we will turn this around. I'm astonished that the abortion industry got the Democrats to go this far legally.
If you are a pillow, then everyone seems like Joe Biden.
“Why are you a dense idiot ? Dropped on your head ? A friend of mine did his internship at Charity in New Orleans.
He told me that every time someone dropped a newborn during delivery (They are very slippery), he would say, "There's another Democrat. Were you born at Charity ?”
Why are you such a hypocrite? YOU were the abortionist, not I. You STILL are pro choice. Why don’t you explain yourself to the good people here? They seem to be very interested in my opinion, maybe they should seek yours. Try to be an honest participant here Michael.
Why are you still PRO CHOICE Michael K? I repeat, to make sure you understand what I’m getting at.
For everyone else here, why do YOU think Michael K is still pro choice after having performed abortions himself? One would think seeing abortion up close and personal and even performing them would’ve made him a staunch anti abortion/ pro life person.
Why is Michael K still pro choice?
Why is Michael K still pro choice?
If he is pro choice, then... It's his choice. It would be hypocritical to scold him for having a consistent view.
Your blog's commenting function SUCKS.
That's the thing. Whether we call it a person, baby, or fetus (technical term of art); whether we call it murder, homicide, or abortion (of a process, of a life); it is a human life, it is killing, which is a natural right.
The issue for civilized society is when and by whose choice does a human life acquire and retain the right to life.
The issue is whether murder, homicide, or abortion should be normalized, tolerated, or rejected. It will happen anyway.
The issue is if women and men are capable of self-moderating, responsible behavior.
The issue, also, is if we will corrupt law and science in order to aid and abet the wicked solution: summary judgment, cruel and unusual punishment, for social and medical progress.
“If he is pro choice, then... It's his choice. It would be hypocritical to scold him for having a consistent view.”
And my view has been consistent, yet that doesn’t seem to be respected here. Michael K announces he’s performed abortions and is STILL pro choice and this causes no pushback by you folks? Yet you go out of your way to address your commentary to me, who has never had an abortion, doesn’t wish anyone had an abortion, never assisted in an abortion. Because Michael K is a Republican and a Trumpist He is handled with kid gloves. Stop being such hypocrites.
One would think seeing abortion up close and personal and even performing them would’ve made him a staunch anti abortion/ pro life person.
Your logic is faulty.
Compare an OBGYN who has seen many pregnancies to term and delivered many babies, to an expectant father who gets squeamish when asked to pick up a box of tampons at CVS on his way home from work.
Also, just for the record, note that Micheal and I strongly disagree on this topic but we are not trying to silence the other or go 11 rounds trolling and calling each other names. Because a few weeks ago you were unclear on the concept - we welcome vigorous debate on this blog, about topic was have differing opinion on. Our contempt is reserved for people who are dishonest or manipulative.
Michael K announces he’s performed abortions and is STILL pro choice and this causes no pushback by you folks?
I see the nasty ignorant Inga is back.
I performed abortions as a resident in 1969. And, yes, I am prochoice but I do not support a party that supports infanticide and late term abortion of viable infants. One of us does.
Banning abortion completely is dangerous but I do support the reversal of Roe v Wade as it is bad law and the political system should deal with the issue as it would have in the 70s if the Supremes had not cut off debate.
We have here a commenter who is unaware of any nuance in political maters and slavishly supports the party of death.
Let the states decide. That should have been the situation all along.
“One would think seeing abortion up close and personal and even performing them would’ve made him a staunch anti abortion/ pro life person.”
“Your logic is faulty.”
The logic of this movie is so that women are discouraged from having an abortion.
“Because a few weeks ago you were unclear on the concept”
Are you addressing me? My view on abortion has been consistent for the entire 8 years I’ve commented here.
...”we welcome vigorous debate on this blog, about topic was have differing opinion on. Our contempt is reserved for people who are dishonest or manipulative.”
Who the hell is “we”? You aren’t Althouse ofr Meade, stop elevating your status as a commenter, you are on the same level as all of us here. I have contempt for you Fen, because you are nothing more than a self important bullshitter. Now I’m done responding to you as I don’t want the back and forth.
my view has been consistent, yet that doesn’t seem to be respected here.
My disrespect for your position has nothing to do with your consistency.
Its that your reason for opposing abortion after the 1st trimester is illogical. We both agree that abortion should be banned after the 1st trimester, but I find your reasoning suspect. Unless I've misunderstood, your opposition to abortion after the 1st trimester is based entirely upon whether the woman "knows" she is pregnant?
Yet you go out of your way to address your commentary to me,
Because you are attacking Micheal and accusing the rest of us of being hypocrites. And making the thread about you. Again.
“I see the nasty ignorant Inga is back.”
After Doc Mike asks if I was “dropped on my head”!
LOL, ok that’s funny.
And my view has been consistent, yet that doesn’t seem to be respected here.
Not because of your view but because you claim opposing it is the same as supporting The Handmaid's Tale.
In summary: you're absurd.
The logic of this movie is so that women are discouraged from having an abortion
Correct. Now compare:
A) # of abortions a physician has witnessed/performed (Micheal)
B) # of abortions a nurse has witnessed/performed (Inga)
C) # of abortions an average woman watching this movie has witnessed/performed (Mrs Smith)
Which number do you expect to be larger? I predict A > B > C
So, assuming C has the least exposure to abortion, does it not follow that she will be much more shocked and horrified than someone (like A or B) who finds it routine?
“In summary: you're absurd.”
It’s absurd to think that if abortion were outlawed that it wouldn’t creat some dystopian scenario in which women were put in a position of proving their spontaneous miscarriage wasn’t an illegal abortion. I wonder has anyone here ever really thought about how the government would keep women from getting illegal abortions? Just how would you Rick want to handle this? Any ideas?
I kind of think not.
"Who goes to see this?"
Well, we'll go see this for the same reason we went to the Gosnell movie - to do a small bit to fight back against who wants to control the culture.
Knock it off you guys. All the tedious back and forth calling each other absurd etc etc. after just a few hours of free time.
Althouse will put us all in time out again and it will be your fault :-)
I wonder has anyone here ever really thought about how the government would keep women from getting illegal abortions?
The same way they do it today? Every birth today and for the last 50 years has gone through a point where an abortion would be illegal. There's nothing today resembling your fantasies even though we know with certainty illegal abortions still occur. Asserting those fantasies as fact when they're contradicted by reality proves that reality simply isn't a factor in your propaganda.
It’s absurd to think that if abortion were outlawed that it wouldn’t creat some dystopian scenario in which women were put in a position of proving their spontaneous miscarriage wasn’t an illegal abortion.
Yep. It's totally crazy to think reality is a better guide to the future than fearmongering by a extremists detached from reality.
You know, I am not very interested in how the commentators here individually feel about abortion. In fact I don't even care very much how Althouse or Meade feel about abortion. I am, however, very interested in how Abby Johnson, a model Planned Parenthood employee -- even a rising star in the PP managerial ranks -- could have had such an about face on the issue. That would be worthy of discussion, but I rather doubt that even the Althouse blog is a place where that could happen.
FWIW it is useful to recall that Roe v Wade was a 7-2 decision, not a 5-4. But if Blackmun, Burger, Douglas, Brennan, Stewart, Marshall, and Powell thought they were ending a controversy, they were badly deluded.
Althouse will put us all in time out again and it will be your fault :-)
It's OK. I just go back to Chicagoboz and NeoNeo where I see a lot of familiar names.
I have no desire to do back and forth but some seem to thrive on it.
“The same way they do it today? Every birth today and for the last 50 years has gone through a point where an abortion would be illegal. There's nothing today resembling your fantasies even though we know with certainty illegal abortions still occur. Asserting those fantasies as fact when they're contradicted by reality proves that reality simply isn't a factor in your propaganda.”
How many abortions are performed every year Rick? Do you think our justice system could handle hundreds of thousands of cases of illegal abortion? You think that making it illegal will stop it? That’s a very unrealistic view of the realty of outlawing abortion. Your thinking is simplistic
You think that making it illegal will stop it? That’s a very unrealistic view of the realty of outlawing abortion. Your thinking is simplistic.
Except that nobody actually thinks this nor it it necessary that something completely stop to justify making it illegal. Literally no law passes this test.
It's your view of everyone else's views that is simplistic. It's also a strawman and is an implicit admission you cannot refute my thinking since if you had better arguments you would presumably make them.
“It's also a strawman...”
Only in your mind. We will never see what would happen if abortion were totally outlawed, as the powers that be know that to do so would create massive societal upheaval. It’s not going to happen, no matter how many anti abortion movies are made.
Yet you go out of your way to address your commentary to me,
I'm addressing your argument of hypocrisy. I don't agree with it, and I provided exactly why.
So long as you are uninterested in changing Texas law; I really don't care yours or anyone's view of abortion. That topic is pretty boring in Texas now. So much so, that I'm not interested in the movie other than the business perspective.
It's pretty impressive that it earned its budget in the first weekend. Now, that doesn't mean it will make a profit, because the box office is a shared revenue. Generally a movie needs to do 4x its production budget to be truly successful, but that's because marketing and distribution is usually about the same as production budget. For example, "On the Basis of Sex" had a budget of about $20 million, but its worldwide box office receipts was about $35 million. That movie also made about $6 million its wide release opening weekend, but it was nearly twice as many theaters as "Unplanned". Another example is "RBG", but we don't know its budget. "RBG"'s total revenue, including dvd/digital sales is $15 million. Both "RBG" and "On the Basis of Sex" were industry award winning films, but in terms of box office success; not very successful. It looks like "Unplanned" will be a success. It does seem there is a market in the movie industry that is under served.
It’s absurd to think that if abortion were outlawed that it wouldn’t creat some dystopian scenario in which women were put in a position of proving their spontaneous miscarriage wasn’t an illegal abortion. I wonder has anyone here ever really thought about how the government would keep women from getting illegal abortions?
It is odd to me that many of the same people who insist I adopt the laws, values, and mores of more sophisticated and enlightened nations on all sorts of topics (firearm ownership being the most frequent) simultaneously appear to believe, in relation to comparative abortion law, other nations simply do not exist!
"What would it be like if abortion were outlawed or more restricted by law? It could only result in dystopia!"
Well, ok, except for, you know, the facts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
Almost two-thirds of the world's women currently reside in countries where abortion may be obtained on request for a broad range of social, economic, or personal reasons. Abortion laws vary widely by country. Three countries in Latin America (Dominican Republic, El Salvador, and Nicaragua) and two in Europe (Malta and the Holy See have banned abortions entirely,[3] but life-saving abortions are allowed in Malta in practice
So if 2/3rds of the worlds women are in such countries that must mean 1/3rd of the world's women live in a nightmare dystopia! Shocking. Those Progressive Euuropeans must be better, though, right?
Most countries in the European Union allow abortion on demand during the first trimester, with Sweden, the UK and the Netherlands having more extended time limits.[4] After the first trimester, abortion is generally allowed only under certain circumstances, such as risk to woman's life or health, fetal defects or other specific situations that may be related to the circumstances of the conception or the woman's age. For instance, in Austria, second trimester abortions are allowed only if there is a serious risk to physical health of woman (that cannot be averted by other means); risk to mental health of woman (that cannot be averted by other means); immediate risk to life of woman (that cannot be averted by other means); serious fetal impairment (physical or mental); or if the woman is under 14 years of age.
Whoa, who knew dystopia was so widespread!
If you want to argue that most of the world's laws restricting abortion are regressively barbaric and should be changed to be more in line with the US's outlier regime of very-unrestricted abortion laws, fine. But it's stupid to argue/pretend that the only options are what we have (with almost no actual practical restrictions under Roe & laws like VA's and NY's) and dystopia. Stupid arguments waste everyone's time.
very interested in how Abby Johnson, a model Planned Parenthood employee -- even a rising star in the PP managerial ranks -- could have had such an about face on the issue
Yes, you're right. What would it take to change someone's mind is a point, perhaps the point, of interest.
Big Mike..... I am, however, very interested in how Abby Johnson, a model Planned Parenthood employee -- even a rising star in the PP managerial ranks -- could have had such an about face on the issue.
Probably the same way that some (not all) people might respond to being exposed to the reality of the pork sausage making process from slaughter house to stuffing the casings. The idea of the process is very different when compared to the reality of the process. They will never look at breakfast the same way again.
The idealistic concept of abortion in an abstract way versus the reality of seeing a living being being dismembered alive.
They don't even do THAT to hogs.
Not everybody can deal with the reality of their ideals.
Only in your mind. We will never see what would happen if abortion were totally outlawed,
It's revealing you move from asserting it's "absurd" your specific accusations won't occur even though there is no sign of them today to asserting we cannot know the future like these aren't mutually exclusive positions.
It’s not going to happen,
It's really not the subject,. You were whining about people treating you differently and now you know it's due to your own behavior. Amusingly you can't even recognize these complaints prove your separate insult that people here only want to hear agreeing opinions is wrong.
Don't think about more than one tenet at a time as the contradictions might cause you to question how you came to believe these obviously incompatible conclusions.
“It is odd to me that many of the same people who insist I adopt the laws, values, and mores of more sophisticated and enlightened nations on all sorts of topics (firearm ownership being the most frequent) simultaneously appear to believe, in relation to comparative abortion law, other nations simply do not exist!”
I’m not arguing against restrictions.
"What would it be like if abortion were outlawed or more restricted by law? It could only result in dystopia!"
Who said that? I sure hope you’re not quoting me. Don’t use quotation marks if you’re not actually quoting someone.
Melina, 26, told Human Rights Watch she had an unwanted pregnancy in 2017 when her contraceptive method failed. Already a mother of four young children, she was deeply distressed when she learned she was pregnant. She tried to end the pregnancy by drinking a tea made from herbs and plants—one of many home remedies women use to try to end pregnancies clandestinely. She began bleeding and felt intense pain in her back and abdomen. Melina felt something had gone wrong but delayed seeking medical attention because she feared being reported to authorities, or facing abuse by medical providers, for having an illegal abortion. When the pain became unbearable, she went to a public hospital and explained that she made a tea to try to end a pregnancy. The abortion was incomplete: the pregnancy had ended, but tissue remained in her uterus, putting her at risk of serious complications. The provider prescribed a medication that helps the body expel tissue from the uterus and sent her away without examining her or giving her anything to manage the pain. Melina took the medication, but the pain persisted for ten days, and she developed an infection. “I started thinking I was not going to survive it.” When she spoke with Human Rights Watch, six months later, she still suffered chronic pain and other health effects from the ordeal. “It was really intense. I suffered a lot,” she said.
The criminal code in the Dominican Republic imposes prison sentences of up to two years on women and girls who induce abortions and up to 20 years for medical professionals who provide them. Although criminal actions against women and girls who seek abortions, and those who help them, are relatively rare, the law has created pervasive fear that drives women and girls to desperate measures to end unwanted pregnancies, and leaves healthcare providers unable to protect the health and lives of their patients.
https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/11/19/its-your-decision-its-your-life/total-criminalization-abortion-dominican-republic
It’s absurd to think that if abortion were outlawed that it wouldn’t creat some dystopian scenario in which women were put in a position of proving their spontaneous miscarriage wasn’t an illegal abortion.
It's absurd to claim this and not acknowledge that it's easily disprovable by simply looking around the world today.
Look, this is what the anti-gun people do every time. "Look at England, look at Australia, look at all these great places that have banned guns--they're fine so you can't argue banning guns in the U.S. will lead to dystopia!" My argument, typically, is that recognize that banning guns might "work" in other places but in America we/I believe self-defense is a fundamental human right and that can only be protected by private ownership of firearms. It would be absurd for me to say "any place that bans guns is immediately going to become a dystopian hellhole" since there are places that have banned guns and didn't--I can see them with my own eyes right now! That doesn't mean banning guns is ok, nor that I'd support it, nor that I'd want to move to those places, but it does mean I can't make a dumb argument.
So, no. Your claim is absurd and can only be made by ignoring the easily-seen objective reality and pretending other nations simply don't exist (or that America's super-lax abortion laws are the norm when they clearly are not).
I'm sure this has been linked before, but if you missed it and if you want an idea of who Abby Johnson is and how she thinks, then here she is.
She doesn't pull any punches. I think this probably gives you a good idea what some of the movie may be like.
“Recent research by the Guttmacher Institute showed that restrictive laws and criminal penalties do not reduce the incidence or rate of abortions, but they make them less safe. Human Rights Watch conducted research in the Dominican Republic in early 2018 to investigate the human rights impacts of the total abortion ban. We spoke with 167 people, including women and girls, healthcare providers, and experts across four provinces. Their accounts reveal the brutal consequences of the country’s harsh abortion law.
Survey data from the Ministry of Public Health suggest that nearly half of pregnancies in the Dominican Republic are either unplanned or unwanted. For this report, Human Rights Watch sought to interview women and girls of reproductive age who had had unplanned or unwanted pregnancies. We interviewed 50 women and girls of reproductive age, 47 of whom said they had experienced an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy. Interviewees reported a variety of reasons for such pregnancies, including barriers accessing contraceptive methods, contraceptive failures, and sexual violence.
Overwhelmingly, women and girls described experiencing distress upon learning of an unplanned pregnancy, saying they felt “depressed,” “terrified,” “desperate,” or “trapped, with no future.” Some women chose to continue unplanned pregnancies that were also unwanted, either due to their personal beliefs about abortion, or because they feared clandestine abortion. More than half of the women and girls interviewed, however, attempted to have clandestine abortions and described these experiences to Human Rights Watch.”
Of course it was going to do well enough; it sounds like it was made on a modest budget with a targeted audience that is normally under served when it comes to biopics and entertainment.
I’m not arguing against restrictions.
Then what are we talking about!? The bill the GA legislature just passed would effectively ban abortion at 5.5-6wks...it would probably be the most restrictive law in the nation if the governor signs it. But that's ok and won't lead to a dystopia since it's just a restriction and not an outright ban??
It's frustrating to discuss topics where people won't define their terms. The Dominican Republic has a ban so it's a dystopia, ok. Most of Europe has severe restrictions (effective bans) after the 1st trimester and they're not dystopias so restrictions of that must not be bad, ok.
Under Roe there are effectively no time restrictions on abortion in the US. VA and NY have passed laws making that explicit--abortion is legal in those places up to (and possibly just after) actual birth. Pro-life people find that horrible and will work to pass laws that will restrict that by a lot...and presumably you'll be just fine with that so long as those restrictions stop short of a complete ban? Is that your claim? Again--what are we talking about?!
!! POST FREEDOM... which then leads to posts like this one.
Maybe, there is wisdom in moderation... FREEDOM.
“Malta is the only country in the EU where abortion remains illegal, and is still a taboo subject for many. But now, a ground-breaking play featuring local voices from both sides of the debate is trying to change that.
It is estimated that hundreds of women leave Malta each year to have an abortion overseas, usually in the UK or Italy.
Others illegally buy abortion pills online.
Deliberately terminating a pregnancy carries a prison sentence of up to three years.
Women go to the UK for abortions and come back bleeding. There should be help available for them here," he said.
A Maltese woman's abortion experience in UK
"The abortion hit on the train, after I left the clinic. I literally thought I was bleeding to death. I passed out from the pain on the train, alone."
A Maltese woman in her mid-30s, Roberta became pregnant about 10 years ago when her boyfriend's condom split.
She flew to a clinic in Birmingham, UK, where she paid €1,000 (£880) for pills to induce a medical abortion.
"When I got off the train and to my hotel, I thought I was dying. I thought something had gone wrong," says Roberta - not her real name.
"The hotel room looked like the scene of a murder. Blood on everything, projectile vomiting. Again, I'm completely on my own."
When she returned to Malta, she bled for 40 days. Her "very religious" gynaecologist told her she had "committed a crime" and should be reported.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45900815
“Again--what are we talking about?!”
I know what I’m talking about, but I think you may be looking for something in my commentary that’s isn’t there. I already said I’m in favor of restricting abortion to 20 weeks, tops. That is a restriction.
I already said I’m in favor of restricting abortion to 20 weeks, tops. That is a restriction.
Ok, thanks. But 18 weeks is a restriction. 16 weeks is a restriction. 5.5-6 weeks is a restriction!
Unless you're defining "anything less than 20 weeks" as a ban then I'm not sure what sense the dystopia talk makes.
“Every year, at least 23,000 women die from unsafe abortions, the Guttmacher Institute estimates. Seventeen million unsafe procedures take place, according to a report in The Lancet. In Latin America, three-quarters of all abortions are illegal.
Over the last 20 years, more than 35 countries have expanded safe access to abortion. But three countries in Central America - Honduras, El Salvador and Nicaragua - have tightened restrictions. Over the same period, democracy in these three states has weakened, argues Professor Larissa Arroyo Navarrete, suggesting a link between the lack of rule of law in a country, and threats to its women's rights.
In El Salvador, where abortion is totally banned, authorities can prosecute women whose pregnancies end before 40 weeks, even if by miscarriage or stillbirth, if they are suspected of harming their fetus. Prison sentences range from two to eight years, though some women have been convicted on charges of aggravated homicide and sentenced for up to 30 years.“
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/05/the-many-countries-where-abortion-still-banned/
I already said I’m in favor of restricting abortion to 20 weeks, tops.
Keep your laws out of our vaginas.
God ! Another Inga thread. See ya.
“Unless you're defining "anything less than 20 weeks" as a ban then I'm not sure what sense the dystopia talk makes”
I’m refering to outlawing ALL abortion at any point in the pregnancy that might produce a dystopia. If you think that in the nations I’ve linked to aren’t a dystopia, then you need to take off your blinders. Would you want your daughter to live in such restrictive countries?
“In El Salvador, where abortion is totally banned, authorities can prosecute women whose pregnancies end before 40 weeks, even if by miscarriage or stillbirth, if they are suspected of harming their fetus. Prison sentences range from two to eight years, though some women have been convicted on charges of aggravated homicide and sentenced for up to 30 years.“
Is there only one solution then for women and very young women who are "depressed,” “terrified,” “desperate,” or feeling “trapped, with no future”? Because right now, if they go to PP for "counseling", they are (allegedly) manipulated into one solution.
I would hope people on both sides of this subject care about this "business model". Someone close to me ended a pregnancy at a very young age and then never became a mother. The abortion lobby has done well to desensitize the public to both the procedure and the lasting consequences. If this movie can help people understand that then I'm grateful it was made.
“God ! Another Inga thread. See ya.”
Grow up. The thread isn’t about me, I’m offering numerous comments because I’m the only commenter arguing for NOT outlawing abortion. Why don’t YOU offer some clear and concise commentary on why you are PRO CHOICE? Then I wouldn’t be the only one arguing this stance? Why don’t you stop complaining and offer something substantial?
Inga...Allie Oop said...
It’s absurd to think that if abortion were outlawed that it wouldn’t creat some dystopian scenario...
4/1/19, 3:27 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...
I’m refering to outlawing ALL abortion at any point in the pregnancy that might produce a dystopia.
4/1/19, 5:02 PM
We went from "absurd" to believe it won't happen to it "might" happen in 1.5 hours.
What's the best medication for bipolar conditions?
“What's the best medication for bipolar conditions?”
I don’t know, maybe you can tell us what your symptoms are.
Here’s some more dystopia for you.
“The small, predominately Catholic country of El Salvador has been widely labelled as the most draconian when it comes to abortion laws.
Abortion is completely banned, in all circumstances, regardless of whether the pregnancy poses a risk to the health of the mother, or if the case involves rape, incest, or foetal abnormality.
Prison terms for women who seek abortions range from two to eight years, while medical professionals who assist them can be jailed for up to 12 years.
If a woman suffers a miscarriage and is suspected to have intentionally caused it, she can be prosecuted for aggravated murder, and face up to 40 years behind bars.
One such case gripped the country last year, when a 19-year-old rape survivor was sentenced to 30 years in prison for aggravated homicide after suffering pregnancy-related complications.
In March, 34-year-old Maira Verónica Figueroa MarroquÃn had her sentence commuted and was released from prison after serving 15 years following a stillbirth.”
https://10daily.com.au/news/world/a180530dny/the-countries-with-the-most-draconian-abortion-laws-20180601
More dystopia. You want a future like this in the US?
“The Dominican Republic also bans abortion in all circumstances, even if a mother's life is at risk, or in cases of incest, rape and foetal abnormality.
Last year, President Danilo Medina Sanchez' attempt to soften the rules was voted down by the legislature, and the total ban was upheld.
Women face up to three years' jail for terminating pregnancies, and medical professionals face up to 10 years.
In a horrific case in 2012, a teenage leukemia patient was denied chemotherapy, because it was discovered she was 13-weeks' pregnant. Doctors hesitated because the treatment would undoubtedly harm the foetus.
After waiting 20 days in hospital, the 16-year-old was finally treated, but the leukemia had aggressively advanced and she died within a week.
Laws to decriminalise abortion were passed in 2014, but then found unconstitutional, and the ban was reinstated.”
Inga, I'm not sure I understand how you can argue for abortion up to 20 weeks, but also argue that banning ALL abortion would lead to a dystopia. Aren't you agreeing that abortions couldn't be done at 21 weeks and on and therefore aren't you forcing a woman to carry to term if she waits too late? Is your argument that all women would seek an abortion by that 20 week point if they knew there would be consequences if she waited later? And who determines that 20 week point? A doctor? Are you sure all women will know that point?
“Inga, I'm not sure I understand how you can argue for abortion up to 20 weeks, but also argue that banning ALL abortion would lead to a dystopia.”
Can you tell me how making ALL abortion illegal is the same as making abortion after 20 weeks illegal? Women STILL have a time period in which to seek abortion. I’m not against restrictions, as I’ve said. Most abortions are performed in the first trimester, giving women until 20 weeks is more than enough time. I’m for giving women a fair choice. You don’t think that the excerpts I linked to in countries in which ALL abortion is illegal is not dystopic?
Well.....this thread was certainly much more fun and civil when we were discussing the My Pillow guy.
:-\
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