March 28, 2019

"[T]he temperature setting in most workplaces is calibrated to men’s metabolic rates, so women are often uncomfortably cold..."

"... especially when the air conditioning kicks in. Or that until recently, even the White House did not have enough lactation rooms for the moms who wanted to work there. These are unfortunate realities that shouldn’t be ignored.... This week’s news from NASA reminds us why it’s so critical to talk honestly about the lasting legacies of a gender-biased era — the 'little' things that will affect the daily lives and careers of women for decades to come. When we don’t, it turns out that even the world’s best rocket scientists can forget that spacesuits were originally designed and built for men. Our girls — tomorrow’s astronauts — deserve better than that."

From "What the Failed All-Female Spacewalk Tells Us About Office Temperature/In a for-men, by-men world, the little things still really do hurt women" by Marisa Porges (who flew jets in the United States Navy and now heads an all-girls school)(in the NYT).

132 comments:

exhelodrvr1 said...

I was under the impression that there were no differences between men and women. Can't the "women" just identify as being warmer? Also, there need to be enough lactating rooms for the men who identify as someone who is breastfeeding.

Fen said...

Oh god. I actually have the privilege of knowing a female rocket scientist that works at NASA. I think I can hear her screaming at this article all the way from Laurel.

...and I was told men and women are the same.

(ducks model Rover)

Hey!

rhhardin said...

who flew jets in the United States Navy

There's the pilot relief tube problem too.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

The temperature setting in most workplaces is calibrated to men’s metabolic rates, so women are often uncomfortably cold...

In most offices, the temperature setting is not calibrated to men's metabolic rates, it is calibrated to people who wear suits.

I wear a fleece jacket in the office every day, winter and summer. As far as I know, it has not interfered with my career.

Sebastian said...

"designed and built for men"

By men.

Easy solution: for women to build their own space ships, their own space suits, and their own AC systems (maintaining them as well, of course).

Fen said...

who flew jets in the United States Navy

What kind of jets? Men usually say Harrier or F18 Hornet...


and now heads an all-girls school

Can you imagine if a man from an all-boys school voiced an opinion that we need to start focusing on things like prostrate cancer and maybe even have an Awareness Month?

This is like that Hooker who drugged men and was held to a girly standard.

rehajm said...

Put on a sweater or guys will walk around in their underpants to avoid heat stroke.

Ralph L said...

Let them wear hats.

And we will wear shorts.

gspencer said...

"Like the fact that the temperature setting in most workplaces is calibrated to men’s metabolic rates, so women are often uncomfortably cold, especially when the air conditioning kicks in."

But, but, gender is just a social construct; we're all the same. There are no differences between men and women. And I know this because I read all the scientific journals like Cis/Bi/Multi Meta/Homo|Sexual Scientific Quarterly Reveiw and that's what they tell us, and I believe every word because they're the experts.

Retail Lawyer said...

Yeah, and stuff is way too heavy.

JackWayne said...

Why is it that strong women are so whiny? I worked as a programmer at a keyboard all day and as I got older I found that a tee-shirt, long-sleeved shirt and sweater were barely sufficient to keep my hands warm. Some people are warm in a snowstorm and some people are cold at the beach. But it’s all really a plot by the patriarchy to hurt women. It takes a heart of stone not to laugh at this crap.

Phil 314 said...

I guess you gotta say things like this if you want your opinion piece published and to claim your 15 minutes.

I hope she wasn’t too cold in the cockpit.

Ralph L said...

I hadn't heard about the failed space walk. Were the suits too tight in the hips?

tim in vermont said...

It’s really a deviously clever plan to drag down male productivity to even things up.

Henry said...

When I worked in Shanghai, in the Summer, there was no air conditioning. Everyone was wonderfully warm.

Besides the lack of air conditioning, the thing that was most different? The windows were openable.

Jersey Fled said...

One of the problems with Moderation is that I sometimes post my usual pithy and on-target comments, only to find that 5 others behind the curtain have already posted them.

Sheesh.

JZ said...

The little things that really do hurt? My wife hasn't flown jets, but she's tougher than that.

Henry said...

This complaining is not very Inuit.

When is Quinn the Eskimo going to get here?

gilbar said...

thermostats turned down, to save planet
Women, Minorities hardest hit

Sofa King said...

I don't think the premise of this article is even accurate. NASA does not have "women's spacesuits," they have unisex sizes, mainly large and medium. This particular female astronaut was close to the dividing line and chose to use a large in sizing and training, and on the most recent spacewalk decided she would be better off in a medium. NASA does not really maintain an inventory of ready-to-use spacesuits in various sizes on the space station, so there wasn't a fresh medium size ready to go for her. It had nothing to do with being a woman - the exact same thing would have happened to a man who decided to switch sizes at the same time.

iowan2 said...

Weren't the space suits built to fit the range of sizes covered by those eligible to be an astronaut? Not much to do with sexism, but sizeism
This is another case of using random data points trying to push a social agenda.

SDaly said...

Under this theory, because temperature is a factor that is beyond individual control, then we have to choose who will disadvantaged. The obvious solution is to segregate the work force.

Because it is easier (and probably less likely to lead to sexual harassment claims) for a woman to put on a sweater than for the men to walk around in underwear, that would seem the better back-up option.

gilbar said...

Also, And This Will Come As A Shock!
{from Basic Camping 101}
It's more possible to put on clothes when you're cold; than to take them off when you're cold

Chris N said...

Crap heaaahhh! I gotcha crap heaaaahhhh!

Who wants it? That’s right girls, take two scoops. So much crap.

You don’t want my crap?

Sexist! Crap-denier!

Crap heaaaahhh!

-U.S.S Craps(person)

iowan2 said...

Sorry, Sofa king is on it with facts.
My instincts are validated by Sofa Kings research.

The left trying to prove a social wrong with a story they intentionally misrepresent

Fernandinande said...

"Women fail to accomplish something, men to blame."

Details every night at 11.

flew jets in the United States Navy and now heads an all-girls school

Taxpayers wasted a lot of money on her training.

Marisa Porges The Baldwin School
"Average 1.0 (of 5) based on 2 teacher ratings"

Henry said...

Sounds like the NASA fiasco wasn't a problem with spacesuit design, but spacesuit logistics:

“Anne trained in ‘M’ and ‘L’ and thought she could use a large but decided after Friday’s spacewalk a medium fits better,” wrote Schierholz. “In this case, it’s easier (and faster!) to change space-walkers than reconfigure the spacesuit.”

Astronaut Anne McClain did a spacewalk. Astronaut Christina Koch will also do a spacewalk. They have x number of astronauts and y number of suits. They need enough suits for every astronaut and the suits have specific size restrictions. These aren't space togas.

This has nothing at all to do with spacesuits being designed "for men." If you're going to stick something bulky into space, like a space suit, there's something else that isn't going.

Complaining about it is like complaining the space station doesn't have a closet full of shoes.

meep said...

The complaint re: cold offices is silly. It's not to make men comfortable, per se. It's to make the warmest people comfortable, because it's very easy to add more clothes, but there is a practical limit to how many clothes you can take off in the office if you need to get cooler. At the worst for me, I can get away with a sleeveless top (and the men really can't).

Not only does every woman I know have an office sweater (and I've got scarves I wear, too), but also a lot of the men at my office have fleece vests they wear if they get too cold, and some wear fingerless gloves if their hands get cold.

There is another reason offices have been very cold: it's been to keep computers and other machinery running smoothly. To be sure, with laptops and cloud computing, that cooling is more needed where the actual servers are, but even so many of us are in electronics-heavy areas and humidity and heat can damage that. It's more the dehumidifier that may the the problem there - lots of us have skin that dries out, and so most of the women I know keep some lotion in their desk drawer if it gets way too dry.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

"[T]he temperature setting in most workplaces is calibrated to men’s metabolic rates, so women are often uncomfortably cold..."

Solution: bare legs and shoulders for men as for women; shorts and a tank top as male office attire. Ladies can show a bit of cleavage; gents can display some chest hair.

Birches said...

The real reason offices and other public spaces are colder than normal is that no one wants a BO smell in a contained space. I would rather bring a sweater than smell sweat thank you very much.

Lucien said...

These are the same newspapers that tell us to believe NASA can tell us what the weather will be like 80 years from now, right? (Also, offices are obviously kept cold to give women erect nipples. Duh!)

tim in vermont said...

the exact same thing would have happened to a man who decided to switch sizes at the same time.

Are you telling me that a woman changed her mind about her outfit at the last minute? The devil you say!

Magson said...

There's a College Humor video called "Why Summer is Women's Winter" -- it's pretty well done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2NNm8MTboA

Hagar said...

When working in recycled air my preferred temperature was 68-70 degrees F for doing work requiring serious concentration and effort, and I worked in short sleeved shirts. If the office had fresh air (opening windows) I could function well up to say 75 degrees, and maybe even higher on good weather days.

So, in engineering offices with 80-90% male employees, should the employers set the thermostats to suit the men and tell the ladies to put some clothes on, or turn up the thermostats to suit the ladies and live with the decline in amount and quality of the work product?

rhhardin said...

NASA does not have "women's spacesuits,"

Ex-gf would not fit in my too-large-at-the-waist bermudas owing to hip shape.

Curious George said...

Hey Marisa, there's a reason it's called a cockpit.

tim maguire said...

Ignorance is Bliss said...In most offices, the temperature setting is not calibrated to men's metabolic rates, it is calibrated to people who wear suits.

This. In every office I've ever been in or heard about, the dress code for men is far more restrictive than the dress code for women. They are required to wear more and thicker clothes. TO function, they need cooler temperatures.

Am I surprised that this bit of discrimination against men is portrayed in the New York Times as discrimination against women?

No. No I am not.

Linda said...

It seems like everything I have read and heard about this issue points to there not being enough "women" sized suits - and fingers are pointing at NASA saying discrimination against women.

Isn't the real problem that one of the astronauts trained in both a medium and large sized top. But after the first walk (a week ago) realized that the medium was the one that fit best. (Which must be the same "medium" size that the 2nd women astronaut wears also) There are two mediums on the ISS, the second one was just not prepped to be ready for the walk (because they didn't know both mediums would be needed!!!!) I have absolutely no idea what it takes to "prep" a space suit, but I do believe that it is a little more than merely recharging it!

tim in vermont said...

NASA does not really maintain an inventory of ready-to-use spacesuits in various sizes on the space station

What more proof of misogyny do you need? Seriously.

Linda said...

Sofa-King

Just saw your post - That is exactly what I just typed!

tim in vermont said...

Ex-gf would not fit in my too-large-at-the-waist bermudas owing to hip shape.. - RH

I think we would all love to meet your ex gf!

Kevin said...

This particular female astronaut was close to the dividing line and chose to use a large in sizing and training, and on the most recent spacewalk decided she would be better off in a medium.

How likely was it with summer approaching she was dieting to get into the smaller suit?

Couldn’t they have labeled one of the big ones “size zero” for her?

Linda said...

And one more thing

I worked in an office building for 35 years. I was almost always comfortable - but many of my female staff would have problems both in winter and summer with being too cold. We did what we could - but they often wore sweaters, had blankets over their legs and fingerless gloves to stay warm in the winter. I was in the same area and was comfortable. And I don't have more body fat than them. It is just different bodies are warm and cold in the same temperature.

I have a friend that I often bike with - we were in Mallorca Spain in March and she came down ready to bike with shorts on - I sent her right back up to her room to change . . . I know her and I knew she would be cold. She was glad she listened to me.

sykes.1 said...

Back in the 80's, in response to the energy crisis, gasoline lines, etc., almost every school and commercial enterprise reduced room temperatures in the winter, and raised them in the summer. Common choices were 68F in Winter and 75F in summer. Everyone also reduced lighting, and work places and schools became noticeably dimmer. Daylight Savings Time was also extended, and schools which used to open after Labor Day and run almost to Christmas were starting in August and ending early December, with a long break into January.

The NYT, which is nowadays run by people in their 20's (with child-like minds) has no memory of the energy crisis or what it created.

Bruce Hayden said...

"Like the fact that the temperature setting in most workplaces is calibrated to men’s metabolic rates, so women are often uncomfortably cold, especially when the air conditioning kicks in."

Ran into this maybe 30 years ago. Shared an office with a woman, and we fought over the thermostat. She whined that her fingers were always blue. My response was that she wanted it at a temperature that put me to sleep. If they wanted me sleeping at my desk every day, instead of working, then fine. But don’t try to penalize me for that, because they were on notice. I did buy her a pair of fingerless gloves. She didn’t think that humorous, though the rest of us did. And that points out that the women can just wear more clothing if they are too cold. Only a certain amount of clothing can be removed by men before public decency standards are violated. In the end I won, because I asked the obvious question of which one of us was doing the more critical work? Eventually I got my own office, off of the main computer room, that had forced air conditioning. Huge office all to myself (I think that I had maybe 6 terminals lined up there at one point), and you needed computer room key card access to visit me. Never really had to share an office after that.

traditionalguy said...

Male Privilege Rules!

Krumhorn said...

The pissing and moaning about the “little things” is such a surprise to me. Usually women are hardy adaptable souls who soldier on through adversity with nary a word of complaint except for the fluid stream of choice curses and foul jokes. Oh wait! That would be guys.

It’s hard to imagine how this gal survived aboard ship. As a former Marine Corps fighter pilot, I can report that it’s not the little things that anyone gives a shit about. However, her story about the ejection seat waiver, if true (and I’m not sure it is true) is something that needs to be fixed immediately. That’s not s little thing. That’s a big thing.

So many folks are just looking for the micro aggressions so that they can piss and moan about it. However, the writer is cute so I cut her some slack.

- Krumhorn

Static Ping said...

If the thermostat in my office is set for the comfort of men, I can assure you that as a man I am not comfortable much of the time. Two of the main complaints in any office are it is too hot or it is too cold and it impacts both genders. Here are some things that impact this:

1. How much clothes you are wearing is important.
2. Anyone who is sitting underneath a vent is going to have a very different experience. The floor could be very comfortable for everyone except the poor sod who is getting refrigerated/baked.
3. How well the persons are adjusting to the current weather matters. As the weather gets warmer now, my body cannot seem to figure out what a comfortable temperature is at all and won't until it stabilizes.
4. What is the person doing all day matters. There is a bid difference between someone who is exerting all day and someone sitting at a desk.
5. There is a big difference between someone who gets to stay inside in climate control and someone who is regularly exposed to the outside.

Pettifogger said...

So men and women have different temperature preferences. I see the following options:

1. Set the temperature to suit men.

2. Set the temperature to suit women.

3. Set the temperature in between.

Under option 1, women could wear light jackets or sweaters, and everyone's needs are met.

Under option 2, men are uncomfortable.

Under option 3, both sexes are uncomfortable.

Obviously, option 3 is the most equal and the one the government should mandate.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Different metabolic rates caused by (correctable) social factors, right? There can't be inherent differences between identifiably distinct groups because gender is a social construct with no measurable objective underpinning.

I'm not sure why people are even complaining about the spacesuit problem. I have been told, over and over, that it doesn't make sense to say "the average man is taller than the average woman" because there are some tall women and some short men so using a "statistical norm" is invalid. The problem, therefore, can't be with the suits.

Men and women are the same--the science is settled.

Static Ping said...

Semi-related, I watched a video discussing Medieval armor for women. Once getting past the fact that very few women wore armor, the presenter's opinion was that women's armor, if it was a common thing, would be identical to men's armor. The protection was not anatomy specific. The only real difference was that armor had an aesthetic to make men look more handsome. If women wore armor more often they probably would make their armor to their aesthetic without negatively impacting the protection.

It also has to be noted that unless you had the armor specifically tailored to you, any armor coming off the shelf was almost certainly going to be uncomfortable. It's steel. There are no elastic waistbands or shrinkage to be expected.

Greg Hlatky said...

On the other hand we see women - especially women of size - fanning themselves if it's the least bit warm.

Conclusion: women like to complain.

Fen said...

She flew the Northrop Grumman EA-6B Prowler.

In fairness, nothing to sneeze at.

Electronic-warfare aircraft
DescriptionThe Northrop Grumman EA-6B Prowler is a twin-engine, four-seat, mid-wing electronic-warfare aircraft derived from the A-6 Intruder airframe. The EA-6A was the initial electronic warfare version of the A-6 used by the United States Marine Corps and United States Navy. Wikipedia
Top speed: 652 mph
Range: 1,143 mi
Engine type: Pratt & Whitney J52
First flight: May 25, 1968

HoodlumDoodlum said...

It feels like we have this discussion with some regularity. I thought we decided that the lower setting is appropriate because people who feel cold can more easily add clothing than people who felt hot could remove clothing. Did we not decide that??

The argument for giving women preferential treatment in many aspects of life is "our survival as a species depends on the reproductive actions of women." I'm pretty sure that's the reason you've given for seeming "unfairness" being ok, isn't it Professor? Let's take that as true for the moment--how would that be extended to argue that women's preferences ought to "win" in a setting like the office/workplace where women's involvement is in a way directly opposed to that reproductive function?

In other words if it's true that I'm supposed to pay/make some sacrifice for women (generally) to promote their child-raising activities why would that mean that I'm supposed to also pay/sacrifice to promote their non-child-raising activities?

RK said...

...and now heads an all-girls school

What the author is teaching the girls is that men control everything, including the office thermostat, and a girl's best recourse to life is to whine.

Fen said...

More info. She has served this country honorably and with distinction.

Marisa L. Porges, Penn Valley, PA, was a research fellow at Harvard’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs. Her work focused on terrorism and counterterrorism, particularly strategies to combat radicalization, and included extensive fieldwork in Yemen, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan, interviewing former extremists and senior security officials. Prior to that, she was an international affairs fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. Marisa previously served as a policy adviser in the U.S. Department of the Treasury, crafting strategies to combat terrorist financing and corruption, and in the Office of the Secretary of Defense for Policy, where she handled detention issues. Marisa began her career on active duty in the U.S. Navy, as a Naval Flight Officer flying the carrier-based EA-6B Prowler and supporting Operation Unified Assistance, the humanitarian response after a tsunami struck Indonesia. She has also served as a Trustee at the Baldwin School, a girls’ school outside of Philadelphia. Marisa received an A.B. with honors in geophysics from Harvard, an M.Sc. with distinction from the London School of Economics, and recently defended her Ph.D. at King’s College London. Her analysis has been published widely, including in Foreign Affairs, the New York Times, and the Wall Street Journal.

So... I think her remarks here are stupid, but the Marine in me says she deserves our respect and even admiration.

Maillard Reactionary said...

Oh the humanity.

We want equal pay for equal work! To be treated as equals! And to have a fainting couch in the Ladies room. And lactation rooms. And get to set the air conditioner to our liking. And no naughty pictures on the cube walls, they offend us.

Waaaaaah.

Sad!

robother said...

I can't wait for the Trans women to weigh in on this one. Sounds like Vagina Privilege monologuing to me.

Jon Burack said...

My wife likes to keep the room temperature three degrees LOWER than I like. I have a space heater for my little home office, so I can stay comfortable as I work. She thinks it's a waste of electricity, but she puts up with it since it keeps me from sneaking around to up the thermostat when she's not looking. Where did we go wrong? Which of us is the victim here? I mean talk about gender confusion. It's such a complicated world now. But I am patient, the planet is warming, I will ultimately prevail.

exhelodrvr1 said...

The nickname for the Prowler was "The Queer". It was a stretched out version of the A-6 to accommodate the two additional crewmembers, and it looked "queer". Not an especially attractive aircraft. But we're not allowed to use that expression at all, are we? Like niggardly

Jersey Fled said...

Men will dress for the environment. Women want the environment to dress for them.

rightguy said...

Women are from Venus. Men are from Mars.

Chris N said...

Fen,

All those things deserve admiration and respect, but the premises of the article, in my opinion, don't.

What do you think her motivations might be for writing it?

Just to get more spacesuits?

Rae said...

Feminists want hot, sweaty men in the workplace.

tds said...

air conditioning is a major contributor to the global warming

AND

women want to crank up air conditioning

=>

women want to kill the planet and us all with it

Rocketeer said...

The fact that there weren't enough female-sized spacesuits for this spacewalk that was heavily publicized well in advance is not a societal "patriarchy" problem - it's an incompetent government procurement, planning, and public relations problem.

Don't try to put this on the rest of us, big-government-loving feminists.

ceowens said...

My wife has had hot flashes for 16 years. I have not touched HVAC controls in 16 years. Coincidence?

Big Mike said...

The Prowler is cnfigured for one pilot and three electronic warfare officers. Was Marisa Porges the pilot, which means she had to learn how to land a very heavy aircraft on the pitching deck of an aircraft carrier, or was she along for the ride?

exhelodrvr1 said...

Krumhorn,
What did you fly?

0_0 said...

What a load.

If thermostats were set at higher temperatures (presumably for women's comfort), then those who are too warm will want to remove clothing. A place I worked at previously had the men vs. women temperature conflict, but the women never ventured in and out of the office to the cooler outside areas.

Isn't it easier to wear more clothing if one's workspace is cool? I realize many women like to dress 'pretty', and I usually appreciate the exposed skin, , but long pants/ tights/ skirts and sweaters/ jackets make more sense.

John Ray said...

I once had a client who was a naval aviator, about 6' tall and built like the proverbial battleship. Flew carrier based combat craft. One day she was in my office in full uniform. During our conversation she asked me: "Why is it so warm in here?" I replied, "The ladies like it that way." She responded, "Tell them who is the boss." At a different conference she said "you should work where I do..." (referring to carriers), "...they keep them cool." I asked "What about the airplane?" She replied "Doesn't matter, you always sweat in them."

That summed it perfectly in that she was wearing a suit, as I was (although I was wearing a "civvies" suit). Unfortunately, some time later, she missed a carrier landing and was killed in the ejection process.

James Pawlak said...

Cold (Frigid?) women can always put on a sweater/jacket. Overheated men can only take off so many clothes before being arrested for "Indecent Exposure" OR, in my case, "Felony Aesthetic Insult".

Edmund said...

NASA spacesuits are, as pointed out here, unisex. They rehearse these operations on the ground in a water tank, but it's not the same as in microgravity so they need to change the suit torso for the main spacewalker.

There are two "medium" torsos on the ISS, but only 1 is ready for a spacewalk. It would take about 12 hours of work to get the other one ready. That doesn't sound like much, but the crew time on ISS is planned out well in advance and they probably didn't have slack in the schedule to get it ready. So, they changed who will do the spacewalk.

It's a safety issue, since there are controls on the front of the torso and the spacewalker needs to be able to use them at all times.

While it sounds easy, spacewalks are exhausting. Sure, you are weightless, but it takes effort to bend your arms and legs. The heavy gloves are confining and require good grip strength to bend your fingers. One astronaut compared it to running a marathon.

(One of my bosses was, at the time he left NASA, the tallest person to spacewalk and held the record (now passed) for longest spacewalk ever.)

Rae said...

Also, we only have ten years to save the planet so the thermometer should be set to OFF.

Krumhorn said...

Marisa began her career on active duty in the U.S. Navy, as a Naval Flight Officer flying the carrier-based EA-6B Prowler

Taking nothing away from her, but as an NFO, she didn’t actually “fly” Navy jets. She was a passenger. An important passenger for sure, but there were no flight controls at her seat. She was a bombardier-navigator. The A-6 was a formidable all weather weapons platform.

- Krumhorn

MayBee said...

(young women). Wait 'til she hits menopause.

jimbino said...

Anw what shall we do to solve the problem of all those tools, like can-openers, designed for right handers?

Christy said...

Now we realize why Elizabeth Holmes always wore turtlenecks.
--- Christy, who always froze in the office

Anonymous said...

“Anne trained in ‘M’ and ‘L’ and thought she could use a large but decided after Friday’s spacewalk a medium fits better,” wrote Schierholz. “In this case, it’s easier (and faster!) to change space-walkers than reconfigure the spacesuit.”

According to Space.com, fitting astronauts for spacesuits is complicated by the fact that microgravity in space effectively makes people taller than they would be on Earth. Earlier this month, McClain revealed that she was 2 inches taller on the ISS than when she launched.


So the patriarchy crisis is caused by a woman wanting to wear a smaller size clothes before she gets her picture taken?

And what's with saying you are taller, but want a smaller suit? sounds like you both can't make up your mind and didn't pay attention in training...

Bottom line.

A woman goes on a space walk one day, then she (a female) ruins women's history, but wanting a larger suit on the next walk...No men involved in this NASA PR disaster.

hombre said...

The bedwetting force is strong, even in admirable women.

Michael K said...

Eventually I got my own office, off of the main computer room, that had forced air conditioning.

Anybody who did not work with mainframes in the 1950s has no idea about cold. Nobody had an office in the room with the mainframe.

SGT Ted said...

"Why is it that strong women are so whiny?"

Because they are quite used to the female privilege of whining about a thing to compel a man or men to fix them, rather than fix it themselves. As well as the privilege of assuming that because they have a complaint, other people need to accommodate them, rather than they having to simply put up with it and get on with life.

Michael Fitzgerald said...

How's a woman expected to keep a job in a place that has no lactation rooms? Women can't work unless there is a special room set aside for a pregnant woman to go squeeze her tits. You want equality in the workplace, build the lactation rooms and they will come.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

When we don’t, it turns out that even the world’s best rocket scientists can forget that spacesuits were originally designed and built for men. Our girls — tomorrow’s astronauts — deserve better than that.

I'm no expert, but space suits have to be individually fitted to the astronaut, they don't buy them off the rack at Forever 21. And since the astronaut has to participated in the fitting (and give the fitters feedback) this is hardly a problem with the patriarchy.

Gospace said...

I can tell you from long experience in the field.

If there's more than one woman in an office- there is no temperature setting that will satisfy everyone.

Everyone, and by that I mean everyone, in building maintenance or HVAC, is aware of that.

David Duffy said...

The first space walk in 1965 was important. Any other "first" type space walks are unimportant.

RichAndSceptical said...

If one is too warm, take something off. If too cold, put something on.

Which is the right strategy in professional office environment?

Kevin said...

So... I think her remarks here are stupid, but the Marine in me says she deserves our respect and even admiration.

When did discussing and arguing against a person's remarks become lack of respect and admiration?

I think it was about the time people started discussing systemic oppression, white privilege, and the patriarchy. It was about that time any discussion or counterargument "caused offense" as a personal attack.

If I can't defend my argument, and I'm unwilling to adjust my opinion in the face of counter evidence, then it's not an argument I'm making but a personal statement.

At that point, we can no longer discuss anything without it becoming a personal attack because your opinion is nothing more than an expression of strongly held feelings.

I don't know the writer well enough to think that little of her.

Kevin said...

"Why is it that strong women are so whiny?"

Why is it our society has no corresponding term for "strong" males?

The wholesale use of the term "strong woman" only serves to reinforce the idea that most women ... aren't.

Earnest Prole said...

Similarly, you never realized how ill-configured the world is for the disabled until you push your elderly parent through it in a wheelchair.

Kevin said...

The first space walk in 1965 was important. Any other "first" type space walks are unimportant.

We are not setting foot on Mars until a woman can be the first to do it.

You can be damn sure of that.

Birkel said...

So the Obama White House didn't have enough space for new mothers?
And the Trump White House does?

Discuss.

Henry said...

Chris N said...
All those things deserve admiration and respect, but the premises of the article, in my opinion, don't.

What do you think her motivations might be for writing it?


The article wasn't written by the astronaut.

Rick said...

[T]he temperature setting in most workplaces is calibrated to men’s metabolic rates, so women are often uncomfortably cold..."


This is another instance where complaining women invent whatever fake facts support their arguments. Temperatures are set by whoever complains about them most consistently which is disproportionately older women.

Sam L. said...

What I read elsewhere is that the problem with the spacewalk was that there was only ONE suit available.

walter said...

Let's not overlook the most important reveal here: Lactategate!

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

There is lactating room in a space suit?

Yancey Ward said...

I want to know why Lockheed Martin refuses to put a breast pump into the F-35. Hell, they don't even put in a tampon dispenser.

Yancey Ward said...

I read Porges' essay- it appears that the real problem was that NASA is run by morons, not that it is run by sexists. Who in the Hell plans a space walk but doesn't ensure that the proper equipment is available first? So, will the person responsible for this PR event planning and failure actually step forward and issue a mea culpa?

Yancey Ward said...

What I really want to know is who took the first shit during a space walk?

Yancey Ward said...

GoSpace wrote:

"I can tell you from long experience in the field. If there's more than one woman in an office- there is no temperature setting that will satisfy everyone. Everyone, and by that I mean everyone, in building maintenance or HVAC, is aware of that."

The solution is obvious, right? It is sexist to not have individually contained work spaces. The cubicle was designed by a misogynist.

Ken B said...

Imagine all men like 70 degrees and all women like 74. A thermostat at 72 is set too low for women!
That's unrealistic but two normal distributions with different means is possible and would show the same effect.

I have no idea if this person did any research or if the facts are as cited. But the logic, as I have just shown, is flawed.

Maillard Reactionary said...

Michael K @10:48: At my last job, the network room--full of servers and routers--was cooled down to about 64 F. The racket from the hundreds of Rotron fans was so extreme that they had a dispenser of foam earplugs at the door.

I was happy to limit the duration and frequency of my visits to that place.

BJM said...

Hire more post-menopausal women...problem solved!

Krumhorn said...

Krumhorn,
What did you fly?


A-4M Skyhawks. Plus time in a C-117 for jollies.

- Krumhorn

loudogblog said...

It would have never occurred to me to think that air conditioning temps were set, specifically, for men. I'm one of those people who likes it warmer than most. I always have to take a jacket to the movies because the air conditioning is always set below my comfort range. Personally, I think it relates more to body fat than gender. As our society has gotten fatter, we've put on more natural insulation from the cold.

gilbar said...

Michael K said...
Anybody who did not work with mainframes in the 1950s has no idea about cold. Nobody had an office in the room with the mainframe.


I was a mainframe computer operator from 1981 until 2002. Eight hours a day in comfortable coolness. Our coat rack was for coats to put On, not take off.
It was the noise that was bad. They had a special testing spot to test from, that showed it was within limits; of course that was without any printers printing (to say Nothing of the card readers (which we used nightly until 1991)).

n.n said...

It's easier to add than remove layers.

Jim at said...

Does this space suit make my ass look big?

Blue@9 said...

Shit, now do the analysis for left-handed people.

Y'all don't just discriminate against us, you set up systems to kill us. I demand a recount!

Tomcc said...

"Com'ere doll, I'll warm you up!"

Edmund said...

I'm no expert, but space suits have to be individually fitted to the astronaut, they don't buy them off the rack at Forever 21.

Yes and no. The suits are modular and you put one together out of a torso, legs, arms, helmet, etc. The parts have limited range of adjustments that can be made to them to fit the crew member that is to use it.

Who in the Hell plans a space walk but doesn't ensure that the proper equipment is available first?

The equipment is up there. However, the main spacewalker needed a different size torso than used on the ground - she learned this on her first spacewalk from the ISS. So there was no torso for the other woman.

John henry said...

Karen Hultgren flew jets in the navy.

Letting her was tantamount to murder by the navy.

John Henry

JackWayne said...

Mike K, that’s where we kept our beer. Under the floorboards where the cold air blew....

Greg Q said...

You're cold? Tough! Put on a sweater.

it's much easier for a cold person to warm him or her self up, than for a warm person to just cool him or her self down. So the bias should be for cold. Stop being so self centered, and demand that everyone else suffer so that you don't have to put out any effort.

your legs are cold? Then wear pants, not a dress. just like we have to.

ken in tx said...

It's not called a cockpit when women fly. It's called the box office.

Ralph L said...

After my ex-boss went on blood pressure meds, he set the A/C at 78 in the summer. It would switch on soon after I would switch from warm to having trouble breathing. A small box fan on the floor helped, but it was a bit noisy.

Ralph L said...

I would think with all that synthetic underwear, women would be melting.

I thought it was proven that the much wider-spreading layer of fat on women meant more of their skin was insulated from their body heat. Ergo, let's starve them into coat hanger models and make them walk up and down the hallways.

Mea Sententia said...

Men routinely have the dirtiest, most dangerous jobs, and men make up over 90% of workplace fatalities. But sure, it's good to know the NYT is on the problem of gender bias in thermostat controls.

chillblaine said...

I blogged about this a long time ago, entitled, "The Soft Tyranny of Low Thermostats." Women just want a menschen-rein office. They don't have different metabolisms. They just like wearing clothing that reveals plenty of skin to the office alpha male.

rcocean said...

She may have flown Jet attack aircraft but she's still a little girl, oppressed by the Big Bad Boys controlling the thermostat & forcing her to put on a sweater. Do women - who want to be taken seriously as leaders - understand that no one wants to follow a whiny complainer who's easily bullied? CF: Hillary.

rcocean said...

BTW, most offices are kept cold to: (1) keep down costs in the Winter (2) help the electrical equipment (3) keep people alert (people start nodding off, when its too hot) and also because (4) people who are cold can put on a sweater, while people who are too hot, just have to suffer - or go nude.

BTW, when i first started out, you were expected to wear a coat/tie to work. The coat came off, but the long sleeves were unrolled & the tie stayed on. One more reason to keep the room cool.

Leland said...

I'm sorry, but she's an ignoramus. The fact is NASA developed the charts people use world wide to understand percentile sizes of various populations, including what is a 5th Percentile Japanese Woman and a 95th Percentile American Man. That's the measurements NASA used for designing the Extravehicular Mobility Unit (EMU), otherwise known as a Spacesuit. Claiming that NASA didn't design the spacesuits for woman is ignorant.

If she wants more lactation rooms in the International Space Station; then she'd do better to note NASA's failure to deliver a space launch vehicle over the last 10 years of development. But in that narrative; there isn't a feminists angle. So the ignorant focus on what they do know and get it wrong.

n.n said...

the main spacewalker needed a different size torso than used on the ground - she learned this on her first spacewalk from the ISS. So there was no torso for the other woman.

Seniority and competition are hurting women. The same issued was exposed with #MeToo #HerToo #SheProgressed. Presumably, men were unaffected by virtue of their differing physiology and suit specifications.

Anonymous said...

Why does everyone have to always be butthurt about something. Office temperatures being set to 68F is a policy that was started back in the Carter administration to save energy because of the Arab Oil Embargo. It has nothing to do with men's or women's comfort. It was a one size fits all stupid government policy that for some reason hangs on today. Of course now it's all about saving Mother Gaia from CO2 poisoning.

And Leland, just above this post, sums up the space suit sizing issue with clarity, much better than I could do. Everything has to be a racist, sexist, hate-filled shit fest. If something needs to change lets talk about it and get it fixed. Why all the finger pointing all the time.

Josephbleau said...

Not relevant to the dignity of the aviation duty but the prowler drops electrons not bombs. Not a naval attack plane, electronic warfare. A bit out of line to say you fly a plane when you are an equipment operator aboard but not a great issue.

Gretchen said...

I'm a woman, and I am often cold. I generally put on a sweater and kept a shawl at my desk when I worked in an office. I thought these were the people who though we needed to save the planet. Stop wearing no sleeves and no tights in the winter. A jacket or sweater, tights and boots will keep you warm. Are men supposed to strip so they can be comfortable? Maybe we could start having segregated male/female offices because diversity. Just like SA!

Bunkypotatohead said...

Why did there even need to be first ever all female space walk? Risking peoples lives for a NASA publicity stunt is what should be bringing them condemnation.

Fen said...

Fen, all those things deserve admiration and respect, but the premises of the article, in my opinion, don't.

Agreed. My point is she's no Brie Larson.

Tinderbox said...

Hell, most of the women in my office "work from home" half the time as it is.

ALP said...

Oh my FUCKING god. This issue makes me want to pop an artery. "Women" includes us post-menopausal, hot-flashing, "sweating at the drop of a dime" types that are always hot. They recently 'banned' fans and space heaters at our firm. My response was: you'll take my desk fan over my dead body. That thing runs all day, aimed at my ever-overheated chest.

Nichevo said...

That thing runs all day, aimed at my ever-overheated chest.


I'll be in my bunk.