March 13, 2019

I'm seeing an awful lot of stuff like, "The bribery scandal is no more abhorrent than the completely legal industry that helps many wealthy kids get into the schools of their dreams."

That's the sub-headline of a column at the NYT that I am not bothering to read. I'm seeing this argument all over Facebook and on the front pages of plenty of newspapers, and I don't like it.

It strikes me as the equivalent of letting a robber, caught red-handed, argue that there are so many things that are essentially theft — worse things really! — so what's the big deal?

In fact, I'd be more sympathetic to the robber, since he may have grown up as a deprived outsider who might think the rules never work for him at all. But these rich people in the college admissions scheme have had the advantages and have benefited by and used the rules in their favor and still want more, and of course, they'd call the cops if anyone committed a crime against them.

I do not want to see these people get off easy on some bullshit theory that the whole system is rigged. Those of us who've tried to live an ethical life and follow the rules don't want to hear that the rules don't matter. What kind of message is that?

Sure, fix things in college admissions that are rigged in favor of the rich, but don't tell me what these people did — if they did it — is just part of a big amorphous mess of privilege. They're accused of crimes, and they deserve the same treatment we give to other criminals. Other problems, outside of the criminal sphere, deserve attention too, but don't let criminals obfuscate their way out of their predicament. That's another rich-guy move!

203 comments:

1 – 200 of 203   Newer›   Newest»
Henry said...

People don't understand ethics.

gilbar said...

let's look at the REAL OUTRAGE!
These 'parents' are Intentionally sending their bimbets to a place where it is Certain that they will be RAPED! %25 of female college students are RAPED Every Day!
And these 'parents' are forcing their girls into That!
That is Child Abuse!

rhhardin said...

It seems fine to me. Who knew there would be a law against it. Everybody's a criminal, as they say.

It's mother of the year material, Scott Adams says.

SDaly said...

Those of us who've tried to live an ethical life and follow the rules don't want to hear that the rules don't matter.

Were you alive during the "mortgage crisis"? That was the moment when I realized that following the rules was for suckers.

Also, "ethics" and "following the rules" are white supremacist constructs.

rhhardin said...

Althouse always worries about the poor kid who didn't put out sex for career advancement. That's a kid who doesn't have what it takes.

SDaly said...

rhhardin -

I'm pretty sure that most people understood that funneling money to a college coach, who then falsely claimed to the admissions office that the student was an athletic recruit, would be illegal.

Ken B said...

I rather like seeing that reaction. It’s clarifying. The elite use college admission as a caste marker. The peasants should see this, and they should see elites saying, “no big deal, at least it was our kind not one of THEM getting in.” And that is precisely what the shrug says. The shrug says, it's okay because this doesn’t weaken the barrier.

rhhardin said...

If they put the kids and parent on the honor system, it would be a different matter.

Curious George said...

"Those of us who've tried to live an ethical life and follow the rules don't want to hear that the rules don't matter."

I agree. OK, now do immigration and border control.

Ken B said...

The shrug says, it's our kind, the rich and famous, so it's okay.”

Nonapod said...

They're accused of crimes, and they deserve the same treatment we give to other criminals.

Look, I'm not defending what these people did. They're criminals and should and will be punished accordingly. But it's just difficult to get that upset about it when the whole system seems so corrupt, so "rigged" anyway.

Modern higher education seems to have so many problems. It's a product that is not worth the price, bankrupting its customers with crippling debt. It's rife with all sorts of favoritism (even the whole idea of legacies having an advantage seems unfair). It seems to primarily teach intolerance of differing opinions, encouraging chasing away conservative speakers. It seems like a haven of bad ideas. It just seems like such a irretrievable disaster.

rhhardin said...

I'm pretty sure that most people understood that funneling money to a college coach, who then falsely claimed to the admissions office that the student was an athletic recruit, would be illegal.

What law would that be? The coach has an employment problem, and the kid doesn't get admitted. A private matter.

Bob Boyd said...

Overheard on the Titanic:

"Good heavens, Mildred! Those are steerage people sitting at a table reserved for first class passengers."

Mike Sylwester said...

Universities need to give their students the experience of studying in an environment of diverse people. The students need to learn about and from social minorities.

For example, universities need to give their students the experience of studying with non-readers -- with people who never really read their high-school textbooks and certainly are not going to start reading their university textbooks.

Such diversity is a strength of university education.

Non-readers are not all poor. On the contrary, some of them are rich, spoiled brats, and they too should be part of the valuable diversity experience that a university provides.

rhhardin said...

They regularly hire tenured professors who claim to be an indian.

gspencer said...

Did ya notice that only places with perceived prestige, but with plenty of fluff majors (e.g. “studies”), were the targets?

None of the targeted schools were ones where, once you got there, you really would have to prove your stuff, and do some solid work and have an understanding of some difficult material and concepts? No MIT, RPI, Caltech, CalPoly, Georgia Tech, Harvey Mudd, and so forth.

Hmmmm.

“Math is so hard”

Henry said...

The systems is rigged for them already. They deserve more opprobrium. Why isn't that the take?

traditionalguy said...

Their wealth is good until the newly wealthy discover that they don't need more than a million a year of their fortune to spend on a life that buys for them the best of everything. Then boredom sets in and requires a challenge. What forbidden things can their money buy. And it gets exciting again.

Then the Eyes Wide Open super wealthy also buy people and especially the forbidden under aged people. And finally they buy super natural powers of conquest promising them elixirs to live forever. Then the child trafficking networks flourish as they buy more victims and private island dungeons for rituals.

Not that their is anything wrong with that...that is until Donald Trump decides to execute them. And then we see the war that is going on today. Good vs. Evil. And horror of horrors, good has the Presidential office.

tim maguire said...

It seems to many of us that they're only crime was to pay their bribes to the wrong people.

It's not that we're not disgusted, it's just that we don't see how it's so different from all the other disgusting stuff that goes on in college admissions but that isn't illegal. So, maybe we are making excuses for crime, but only because of the selectivity of the outrage.

MayBee said...

Such a great point, Althouse.

I would say one big difference is famous alums and new buildings are positives for the school. They help with reputation and enrollment. The universities get something out of it. The kids apply honestly and a more positive view is taken of their application.

These kids were already rich enough to have connections to get a positive view. That wasn't enough, so the took to bribery. They bribed the SAT and ACT! How is this not so enraging to people, I do not know.

MayBee said...

Henry said...
The systems is rigged for them already. They deserve more opprobrium. Why isn't that the take?


Yes! Exactly!

Trumpit said...

I hope Trump University is investigated for fraud. He paid out $20,000,000 after all. Isn't that a bribe, or hush money? One more way to bring Schlump down. I'd love a degree in con artistry from Trump U. I could ply my trade in his corrupt administration.

stlcdr said...

I’m a bit confused about the outrage. If you have a certain amount of money you can go to a certain school. Hasn’t that been the case since ‘prestige’ schools were invented? Indeed, doesnt the government encourage this? You want to go to x school, they are demanding y dollars, the gov will give it to you,

n.n said...

They are accused of a crime, there is due process, which is not in question. However, in light of warlock hunts and trials by press past and in progress, the issues are motive, selectivity, and presentation, that are not limited by credits purchased by the wealthy and connected.

gg6 said...

Well, like yourself, Ann, I'm not going to bother reading the NYT column either - but I am surprised by your 'surprise and outraged righteousness'. After all, the headline itself classifies what happened as "abhorrent" and certainly makes no suggestion that it is acceptable behavior -it only seems less stunned than you appear to be by such behavior. Indeed, it's main point seems to be that such 'abhorrent' behavior is RAMPANT throughout Academia and comes in multiple forms. I would agree with that, wouldn't you? There's a reason even their 'admission' practices are headed to the Supreme Court. Let's face it - Academia has become a cesspool of questionable, marginal and outright wrongful and illegal behavior. Or maybe it's always been this way? It's simply another Swamp that is overdue for a draining.

Matt said...

I don't see anything other than parents who love their kids.

Mike Sylwester said...

Of course, this is not a federal problem. It should be dealt with by the states where the colleges are located.

In order to make it a federal problem, they are calling it "conspiracy to defraud the United States".

This bogus charge has been applied to people in Russia who bought Facebook ads that show Hillary Clinton arm-wrestling against Jesus.

Now this bogus federal charge is being applied to rich parents getting their nitwit kids enrolled in college.

The only people who are exempt from this bogus charge are officials of the US Department of Justice and of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Those officials can do all kinds of sneaky, deceptive stuff to cause trouble to Republican political candidates and to Republican Presidents, but those DOJ/FBI officials never are charged with "conspiracy to defraud the United States".

n.n said...

Ah, diversity or color judgment, a persistent legacy of times past and in progress.

n.n said...

deceptive stuff to cause trouble to Republican political candidates and to Republican Presidents

Not limited to collusion and spying on Republicans and their primary candidate.

Michael K said...

The scandal at my alma mater, USC, involved women's sports, which is no surprise as it was mostly invented for political reasons.

Most men's minor sports were sacrificed on the PC altar,

Earnest Prole said...

so long as affirmative action/athletics/diversity hires rule the Academy, Higher Ed is in crisis

It's an utter bullshit answer. California, the state where the most famous cheaters reside, does not even use affirmative action in college selection. Of course that creates a problem for the cheaters since Berkeley and UCLA are filled with Asian kids far smarter than your lame-ass rich white kids.

Limited blogger said...

sorry, I just can't worked up about this

Big Mike said...

There are legal ways to bribe the school to get your kids in (endow a chair, contribute to building funds) and illegal ways. I’d be pleased to stop both but it’s easier to start with the illegal bribes. And in the case of the illegal bribes I think both the faculty and staff who took the bribes and the university president and deans and the faculty on the admissions committee need a level of punishment. Make them do the follow-ups — does the “recruited athlete” have any sort of athletic background. Did they at least try out for the team? Every Dean of Admissions mentions some musical instrument player that the band just has to have — well, does the oboe player actually play the oboe? A little hard work won’t kill them; a forced resignation on the other hand ...

Mr Wibble said...

The large donations and legacy admissions are baked into the system and I think everyone expects them, and to an extent it's honest. The school benefits enough to justify the admission. Susie's dad donates a wing to the science building and Susie gets admission. Billy's dad went to Ivy U so Billy is a legacy and gets admission and the family gives generously to the alumni foundation.

What makes this scandal so infuriating is that athletics and stellar academics were seen as a way for the non-wealthy to secure a spot in a good school. If you don't have $10 million for a new building, or a last name that traces itself to the Mayflower, your kid could still have a shot if they worked their butt off on the practice field or in the library. Sure, mom and dad may pay for private tutors and test prep, but it still required work on the part of the student. But now we're finding out that these wealthy folks were destroying even that path through fraud.

MayBee said...

I don't mind:
Kids from lower class backgrounds who are smart but don't have tutors, college admissions consultants, peer pressure to succeed, parents with academic achievement, great teachers, time to take up some super-resume boosting volunteer experience, etc... getting an extra look in college admissions (we can call it Affirmative Action)

I do mind...
Kids with the right genetic ancestry, but with perfectly upper middle class backgrounds and coming from perfectly great schools getting a chance to check a box on a college app and getting an extra look in college admissions (we'll call it Affirmative Action). I know a LOT of these kids.

I don't mind...
Kids of supportive alums, or super successful alums getting an extra look in college admissions. (we'll call it a "thank you, aren't we great")

I do mind...
Those kids who aren't good enough STILL bribing their way in to school. Bribing the arbiters of our kids' success: The ACT and SAT boards. Bribing the coaches of sports nobody cares about.

I don't mind...
Harvard/Yale being thought of as elite universities

I do mind...
Continuing to watch our government worship at the feet of the people who graduated from them, undergrad or law school. I'm tired of the in-groupness of it all. That's what made these kids' parents want to bribe their way in. Because their kid will be seen as BETTER THAN.

MartyH said...

“Lock her up!” is the same sentiment as the Professor expressed. The FBI/DOJ take was, “Laws were broken but whoever it was that broke them had no intent so we don’t need to dig any further. Now excuse us while we see if we can find anything possibly illegal anyone associated with the Trump campaign might have done in the last thirty years.”

johns said...

Can one of the lawyers here spell out exactly what the charges are? If an applicant submitted a false profile claiming to have an athletic background and a coach went along with this and requested that the applicant be admitted, what is the charge? The applicant committed fraud against the University? so the University has standing to sue, right? What is the DOJ charging?

traditionalguy said...

Elite Pedagogy sells. Free markets

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“It strikes me as the equivalent of letting a robber, caught red-handed, argue that there are so many things that are essentially theft — worse things really! — so what's the big deal?”

Right. To equate what Elizabeth Warren did with this racketeering bribery scheme is exceedingly dishonest. These rich people who already had so much were just so damn greedy it wasn’t enough for them and their spoiled rotten offspring. Disgusting people.

“Those of us who've tried to live an ethical life and follow the rules don't want to hear that the rules don't matter. What kind of message is that?”

It says the system is rigged for the rich, just as Warren has been saying for years.

Ann Althouse said...

"... I am surprised by your 'surprise..."

Well, you are hearing voices. I said nothing about surprise.

I understand that the talking point I object to is being carried virally by some people who are doing the usual cynical theatrics of having known it all along (as if other people were so naive). I'm calling bullshit on this lame facilitation of corruption. If that's what you are doing, you are working the will of the people who actually are getting advantages and are pushing this meme because they participated in a scheme like this.

This cynicism is part of the problem.

JAORE said...

Not a Federal issue? Surely you jest. The scam involved a phony charity used to funnel money to e.g. the fake ACT testing. The bribers paid in, then DEDUCTED the bribes.

(Not to mention the billions of Federal money flowing into these schools).

Big Mike said...

I recall reading an essay published by the anonymous daughter of a prominent, unnamed, alumnus of Northwestern who contributed — aparently generously, from the context of the esssy — to his alma mater. The school told him that there was a “firewall” between the admissions committee and the committee that solicited alumni contributions, but she dutifully applied and was, in fact, turned down.

The father replied to the next letter soliciting contributions with a letter advising them that he appreciated the firewall between the alumni fund and the admissions committee, but it was resulting in a firewall between his wallet snd Northwestern. However the punchline of the essay was that the daughter was happy not to be st Northwestern (would you like to walk to class in February in Chicago — Evanston is a suburb — along the shores of Lake Michigan?) and she loved the small university that did accept her.

effinayright said...

rhhardin said...
I'm pretty sure that most people understood that funneling money to a college coach, who then falsely claimed to the admissions office that the student was an athletic recruit, would be illegal.

What law would that be? The coach has an employment problem, and the kid doesn't get admitted. A private matter.
*****************

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the concept of ethics. If you lie to your employer, he could at least fire you for your breach of trust. And if you work for a state university, you're a public employee and subject to a variety of laws involving bribery.

And of course if you fail to report the income from your bribe on your tax return, you *are* committing a federal crime.

Henry said...

Can one of the lawyers here spell out exactly what the charges are?

This isn't a lawyerly answer, but the charges are racketeering, bribery, and fraud.

The indictment against the college coaches is here: https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/656-college-admissions-and-testing/a01f87291e255a5f7c80/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

This indictment is filed against 7 college coaches, 2 standardized test administrators, a private tennis coach, and 2 employees of The Edge, the company that managed the money.

There are separate indictments against the parents.

johns said...

Good for Northwestern. I hope the story is true

MayBee said...

It says the system is rigged for the rich, just as Warren has been saying for years.

And yet.......she was one who used the rigging to benefit herself in an unfair manner!

Anyway, the "system" isn't rigged. There is no one system. There are lots of ways to succeed in life. But when we see people actively trying to rig various things-- college admissions, politics (all different systems!) it is maddening, and it should be changed.

MayBee said...

And of course if you fail to report the income from your bribe on your tax return, you *are* committing a federal crime.

And if you are writing off your bribe as a charitable donation (which is a charge against at least some of the parents), you are probably committing a federal crime.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“And yet.......she was one who used the rigging to benefit herself in an unfair manner!”

No she did not. She honestly and sincerely believed she was of Native American ancestry. She wasn’t attempting to scam anyone of anything. Now you may think I’m naive for believing her, but I would say this, how naive are you Trump supporters when he owned the fraud ulent Trump University and is under investigation for other serious frauds. If you want me to list them, I’ll be happy to do so. Again to equate what Warren innocently did to this criminal activity is unwarranted and excessive.

Enlighten-NewJersey said...

“I do not want to see these people get off easy on some bullshit theory that the whole system is rigged. Those of us who've tried to live an ethical life and follow the rules don't want to hear that the rules don't matter. What kind of message is that?” It’s the same message we hear about illegal immigrants, sanctuary cites and states, amnesty, etc and it’s upsetting isn’t it?

Drago said...

"Right. To equate what Elizabeth Warren did with this racketeering bribery scheme is exceedingly dishonest."

The party that called Reagan, HW Bush, W Bush and Trump literally "Hitler" and calls Trump Stalinist would like to take a few minutes to lecture others on not drawing out of whack comparisons.

Let's pay close attention........(after all, Reid Hoffman would like us to.....)

Drago said...

"No she did not. She honestly and sincerely believed she was of Native American ancestry."

This is a well known "fact" amongst all certified American Mind Readers.

MayBee said...

No she did not. She honestly and sincerely believed she was of Native American ancestry. She wasn’t attempting to scam anyone of anything. Now you may think I’m naive for believing her, but I would say this, how naive are you Trump supporters when he owned the fraud ulent Trump University and is under investigation for other serious frauds. If you want me to list them, I’ll be happy to do so. Again to equate what Warren innocently did to this criminal activity is unwarranted and excessive.

No, I don't think you are naive. I think you are willfully choosing to believe her. I guess you'll have to show me where I've ever said I believe Trump at his word when he says he wasn't fraudulent about something.

What Warren did was take advantage of a rigging of the system. She knows if she was ever hurt by her supposed NA ancestry, and if she needed college admissions and job admissions to make up for the hurt she suffered. So I'm not equating it to the criminal activity, but YOU brought up Warren saying the system is rigged. and I say she is an extremely poor messenger.
And somehow, on top of it all *she* has gotten rich!!

glenn said...

Patiently waiting for the IRS press conference. Did these “folks” take tax deductions? Because if they did they cheated all the taxpayers in the country.

Joe said...

Lori Laughlin spent $500,000 to get her daughters into USC. USC? Seriously?

Even more comically, her youngest said in an interview last fall that she was doing find with YouTube and didn't want to go to college.

Ralph L said...

The honest rich, like the smart minorities, should be outraged that their diplomas have been devalued and denigrated.

rehajm said...

It is more abhorrent than the 'legal industry' unless legal industry means or includes 'institutional advancement' i.e the kids parents buying a new library or funding a new chair. There I see some equivalence. Is there a difference if the bribe benefits the institution or the individual? Maybe there's something in the employment contract?

Seems worse that the institution gets away with it...

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

mmmmm, Koolaid.

MayBee said...

Again to equate what Warren innocently did to this criminal activity is unwarranted and excessive.

Why can't you bring yourself to leave out the word "innocently" in this sentence? It would read perfectly fine without it.

Yancey Ward said...

When you have nearly identical actions that are differently treated as criminal and non-criminal, then you have injustice by definition, Ms. Althouse. The only difference in the legal and illegal modes here is who collected the bribes for admission.

The Last Dragon Slayer said...

People are under the mistaken illusion that the blue-blooded dragon had been slain. We think we can now go about our lives in peace an harmony, knowing that our chance in life is based on whether we try hard, not whether the blue-blooded dragon favors us. But the blue-blooded dragon is alive and does favor some. We have just seen him. Those he favors avoid is bite. Some can avoid the bite if they contribute enough to his hoard. The rest of us get bit.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Anyway, the "system" isn't rigged. There is no one system. There are lots of ways to succeed in life.”

And one of them is to make sure that the laws in place benefit your economic group by harming middle and lower economic groups. It’s real and if you did some research you’d clearly see it. The system that is in place favors the rich and if you can’t see it you’re doing as Althouse has said in this case, you’re just helping the rich guy who already has massive advantage.

Drago said...

I wonder which Native American scholar was screwed out of an Ivy League position due to the white chick from Oklahoma, whose family literally was part of the operation to oppress the Cherokee nation, lying about her heritage and then going to hilarious and astonishing lengths to obfuscate and lie about it?

I wonder if "Li'l Tomahawk" Warren has reached out to see if the actual Native American that she screwed over could be identified and restitution offered.

Think of it as a potential Elizabeth "Li'l Tomahawk" Warren's Personal Reparations Act.

Anthony said...

>>This cynicism is part of the problem.

But it is justified.

rehajm said...

Even more comically, her youngest said in an interview last fall that she was doing find with YouTube and didn't want to go to college.

Based on the size of her social media audience and the product endorsements she's made she's making well into six figures.

She may be right...

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Why can't you bring yourself to leave out the word "innocently" in this sentence? It would read perfectly fine without it.”

Because it was innocent.

Lurker21 said...

I wonder if people talked that way in the 1950s. Prosecutors were going after disc jockeys, game shows, and college basketball and largely leaving organized crime, corporate crime and government crime alone. Probably people didn't talk that way because they didn't know what was actually going on behind the scenes.

In this case, law enforcement was investigating someone or something else, and this scandal just tumbled out. They couldn't not investigate and not prosecute. And in all of these high profile cases there is an educative effect that teaches respect for law and that no one is above the law.

The law, not morality. Though maybe that's the next step. Complain enough about the underlying inequality and unfairness in college admissions and eventually colleges may have to do something. Stranger things have happened.

When I was young I really believed the authorities when they said "You can't study for the SATs," and was foolish enough to think that the test would sort us out according to our natural abilities for our own good. That's just another step in the long process of getting passively sorted out and slotted in by the powers that be that goes on throughout our lives, and I don't blame people for rejecting such passivity. I don't fault students and parents for taking prep courses or hiring tutors or cramming for exams. I do draw the line at actual fraud and cheating, though.

Drago said...

"It’s real and if you did some research you’d clearly see it."

Major media across the political spectrum, including the NYT, did some serious research and found out the lefty Billionaire Reid Hoffman ran a russian-bot-like operation in the Alabama senate race as well as set up multiple false flag "LLR" operations to drive down conservative turnout there.

But many people, despite the research and evidence uncovered and Reid Hoffman's actual admission, do not believe this actually happened and call it all "propaganda".

So, it really doesn't matter to many on the left what "research" is done or what is "real" or "clearly seeing" something the perpetrators actually admit to.

Obviously.

bagoh20 said...

The root of the evil is that our culture so richly rewards things like athletic ability, fame, and beauty. They should be appreciated, of course, and even lead to comfortable lives, but we go way overboard with the rewards for things that are marginal in importance and often the luck of genetics. Those kinds of rewards lead some people to think that this was a legitimate way to spend hundreds of thousand of dollars. It's like money means nothing to them, becuase it came so easy, and they wish to pass that sad legacy on to their offspring.

Francisco D said...

Of course, this is not a federal problem. It should be dealt with by the states where the colleges are located.

Well, there is the issue of tax fraud on the part of some parents and most bribery recipients. Paul Manafort will spend a few years in jail for that crime.

Michael McCann (legal analyst for Sports Illustrated has a good article on the charges in the latest SI.

Rosalyn C. said...

One good which might come out of this is the revelation that the "elites" aren't always as elite as they'd like us to think. BTW, I'm with Althouse on this ethics issue. I think having a corruption mentality is a big deal and wrong. While I believe living ethically is its own reward I definitely prefer to live in a society where honesty and ethics are valued.

Drago said...

I wonder if the lefties incredible mind-reading powers could be put to good use for all of humanity?

We know in many communist/socialist nations this has been done over the decades which allowed the lefties to "know" which people are actually "insane" (Soviet Union: anyone advocating individual rights and liberty, Cuba: anyone owning anything or not praising Castro enough (bullet time!), etc)

Drago said...

Does it strike anyone else as odd that people with incredible mind-reading powers are content to simply remain in their typical and average lives and not want to share this gift with their countrymen?

Think of it, we could take these average type folks with these amazing skills, even if, say, they were nurses or something, and make them part of Foreign Mission staffs and put them in close proximity to other world leaders to know what they are thinking.

Think of the advantages!!

Any red-blooded American Certified Lefty Mind-Reader should be happy to serve their country in just this way.

Plus, think of the movie rights!!

MayBee said...


“Anyway, the "system" isn't rigged. There is no one system. There are lots of ways to succeed in life.”

And one of them is to make sure that the laws in place benefit your economic group by harming middle and lower economic groups. It’s real and if you did some research you’d clearly see it. The system that is in place favors the rich and if you can’t see it you’re doing as Althouse has said in this case, you’re just helping the rich guy who already has massive advantage.


Yes! Many systems in place favors the rich. Because they have money! That's very different than "the system is rigged against you".
And of course, many of the laws in place -tax laws, for example- that hurt the middle and lower economic groups were put in place to try to "level the playing field" against the rich. But there aren't enough of them! So they end up going after the middle class to get the money.
Look at Obamacare. That was meant to help the middle and lower groups at the expense of the rich. But the rich are rich! They can buy healthcare. And the lower groups were helped--- but the middle class is pinched. Insurance premiums have gone way up *plus* there are really high deductibles.
How wrong did it go? They delayed the Cadillac Insurance Plan tax.
Remember this:

The Cadillac tax was created as part of the Affordable Care Act largely as a way to help fund benefits to the uninsured under the law. Starting in 2018, employers were supposed to begin paying a 40% tax on costs of health plans that are above $10,200 per individual and $27,500 for family coverage.

Well guess what? $10,200 for insurance per year isn't a Cadillac anymore. It's a Ford SUV maybe.

This, remember, was a plan meant to help the middle class and make the rich pay! Imagine what a Warren could do with *her* system un-rigging.

Wa St Blogger said...

What Warren did was take advantage of a rigging of the system. She knows if she was ever hurt by her supposed NA ancestry, and if she needed college admissions and job admissions to make up for the hurt she suffered.

I grew up being told that my father's parents were 50% native american, making me at least 1/16th. I did not have contact with my father so I could never confirm. Later in life I did family research and discovered he was as lily-white as they come. I never once "checked the box" for NA, because I did not KNOW I as NA, nor did I ever suffer as a result of it. I suffered, certainly as a child of an immigrant whose husband abandoned her when I was 9 months old, but there is not a check box for that.

My oldest daughter is visually impaired. She will not check any boxes though her ability to read is greatly impacted. She is a special needs adoptee, but considers herself to be very fortunate and does not look for help. I'm not impressed with Elizabeth Warren's story. I am very proud of my daughter.

Rick said...

I'm enjoying how this story is playing out. This morning on Democracy Now I heard the lead FBI agent (Br B...) say something along the lines that this fraud violated everyone's right to fair application process. He had several other lines all of which seemed reasonable. I found it very interesting that race preferences in the application process also violated every one of the standards he noted.

The Democracy Now host immediately transitioned to claim this is uniquely awful for "black and brown people". She never got around to why this is so. Because some tiny number of people also game the system those who game it in other ways are hurt the most? absurd.

Maybe this is why Althouse is so much more offended than the rest of us. She wants to believe the application process is legitimate whereas everyone knows writing your personal statement on diversity means swearing fealty to leftism is worth 20 points. Academia has moved merit and accomplishment so far down the list who could possibly think this tiny number of people make any measurable difference in the cesspool.

I'm glad they were caught. Now watch the left use it as an excuse to tilt everything even further in their favor.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“The Cadillac tax was created as part of the Affordable Care Act largely as a way to help fund benefits to the uninsured under the law. Starting in 2018, employers were supposed to begin paying a 40% tax on costs of health plans that are above $10,200 per individual and $27,500 for family coverage.”

Medicare for All... a solution. Or Medicare X, or any number of Universal Healthcare plans that could be implemented if the rich didn’t have undue influence and power.

Yancey Ward said...

Let me explain more clearly:

Mr. Big Sr. from donates 20 million dollars to Princeton so that Mr. Big Jr. can be admitted even though Jr.'s SAT scores would land him at the University of Illinois, at best. The admissions staff, knowing that the media might question such an admission decides that the best way to finesse this issue to have Jr. admitted as a lacrosse recruit even though he has never played the sport at all- or, alternatively, that Jr. has some other imaginary skill set that mitigates the lower test score. Is this a crime?

Alternatively, let's suppose that Jr. had poor grades his first two years of high school, and Sr. makes a donation to the high school whose administrators create special classes that Jr. can enroll in that literally give him As for fogging a mirror. Is this a crime?

Alternatively, let's suppose that Sr. donates 20 million dollars to the Clinton Foundation, and Hillary Clinton calls up Princeton's president and gets him to admit Jr. with the bad grades and the triple digit SATs because Clinton "knows" the kid and avows that he will be a credit to the university, and, oh by the way, since I have you on the phone, I would like to invite you on an all expenses paid trip to a conference in Davos to talk about Princeton's vision for a better and more progressive world. Is this a crime?

Earnest Prole said...

She honestly and sincerely believed she was of Native American ancestry.

One-thirty-second wasn't Native American when she represented herself as one and it's clearly not now. I suspect once her Democratic Primary opponents start hammering her on this you will have an epiphany.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“The Democracy Now host immediately transitioned to claim this is uniquely awful for "black and brown people". She never got around to why this is so.”

Because black and brown people are disproportionately in large numbers among the poor.

MayBee said...

Medicare for All... a solution. Or Medicare X, or any number of Universal Healthcare plans that could be implemented if the rich didn’t have undue influence and power.

"The rich"?????? The rich will get their health treatment.

Do you not find it absurd to take that part of what I wrote- about the Cadillac Tax- and decide that the fix that made the costs rise just wasn't quite enough fixing, and more fixing *by the same people* will surely make it more affordable to the middle class?

Leland said...

To turn an oft used phrase: Now do illegal immigration.

Rick said...

Inga...Allie Oop said...
“And yet.......she was one who used the rigging to benefit herself in an unfair manner!”

No she did not. She honestly and sincerely believed she was of Native American ancestry. She wasn’t attempting to scam anyone of anything. Now you may think I’m naive for believing her,


Nobody thinks you're naive, that would require believing you made a good faith effort to understand the issue. But in reality you assert her statement is true because you support Team Blue. there isn't anything more to your position.

It's very clear Warren did not innocently believe she was an American Indian by noting the fact that after her appointment she stopped identifying herself as such.

reader said...

Cynicism or realism? Some parents lie to get their kids into the right school in the right district k-12. Some parents lie (address or age) to get their kids on the right little league team. Some parents and some young adults will lie and cheat to get into college.

I believe that this happens in some form or fashion at every college or university...even those located in Wisconsin. It is only a question of style and scale.

Due to the style and scale of this instance it is a good first step.

Henry said...

Does Elizabeth Warren have to be brought up in every single thread?

MayBee said...

To turn an oft used phrase: Now do illegal immigration.

That's what I was thinking. It's really hard to get a Visa from Mexico to the US. You need to prove you have assets in Mexico that you will want to return to (or at least that's how it used to be). Or you are well educated, you have a special skill set, so you get a visa to come to the US because you will be a contributing member of society, creating wealth for your company and paying taxes.

So....there's money involved.
But if you can't get a visa, you use your money to pay a coyote to get you across the border.

Is it the same thing? It's all money to get to the US.

Rick said...

Because black and brown people are disproportionately in large numbers among the poor.

And? For this to be a legitimate reason only the poor must be hurt by this. Does that make sense? It seems to me the middle class must also be hurt. Do the poor apply to college at such rates that the white middle class becomes irrelevant?

Do you even think about reality before jumping in with your shibboleths?

Amadeus 48 said...

What other area of current interest involves rule breakers who thereby get an advantage over rule abiding people? Oh yeah. Illegal immigration. Feei the outrage among the Dems!

Yancey Ward said...

The key about Warren is this- what she did is no different than what Rachel Doleaz did. Indeed, Warren can arguably have done something worse because I think Doleaz can make a legitimate claim to being mentally ill. In short, I think Doleaz might well have believed she grew up a poor black child in Mississippi.

Ralph L said...

Because black and brown people are disproportionately in large numbers among the poor.

But the universities want them as much or more than the children of the rich or famous. Fat chance one lost his place to a rich kid.

The Vault Dweller said...

The silliest analysis I heard was on NPR. They had a sociology professor on who while indicating the actions were bad, diminished it and said that while it was bad it was part of a larger system that oppresses the poor, the largest and worse example being middle class parents who move into school districts that have good public education systems.

The Vault Dweller said...

But the universities want them as much or more than the children of the rich or famous. Fat chance one lost his place to a rich kid.

I don't think this is correct. But it is correct to say that they want them more than higher achieving Asian and White kids of middle class and upper-middle class.

Hey Skipper said...

“The Cadillac tax was created as part of the Affordable Care Act largely as a way to help fund benefits to the uninsured under the law. Starting in 2018, employers were supposed to begin paying a 40% tax on costs of health plans that are above $10,200 per individual and $27,500 for family coverage.”


[Inga:] Medicare for All... a solution. Or Medicare X, or any number of Universal Healthcare plans that could be implemented if the rich didn’t have undue influence and power.


Bollocks.

The unions fought the Cadillac tax tooth and nail.

Speaking as a union member, BTW.

The Vault Dweller said...

The unions fought the Cadillac tax tooth and nail.

Speaking as a union member, BTW.


Weren't they successful as far as Union benefits go? I kind of remember the Obama administration carving out an exception for union benefits?

Leland said...

That's what I was thinking.

Curious George beat both of us, and he quoted the line that struck me. And I think Althouse undercuts her argument with her sympathy for the robber. That sympathy is equally BS as the cynicism she denounces. Sympathy is the excuse made allowing SOME illegal immigrants to freely enter the country and have sanctuary.

And yes, it is frustrating to hear cries of "open borders" from people who won't even discuss the far stricter policy of immigrating to Mexico or say to Europe. Those policies, like admissions to schools, become less strict with money, and often that money goes to government officials charged with enforcing the law. The law becomes a money maker for these officials.

For the record, I think the people rounded up in this bribery scandal should face stiff penalties if found guilty. And I said in a previous thread that the government officials should face harsher penalties. Unlike Althouse, I have more sympathy for these parents, because ultimately they are just trying to help their children. However, that sympathy is tempered by the fact that they created and failed to properly raise their children to accomplish such objectives without the need for bribery. Further, the parents thought these accomplishments were necessary, when the parents were very accomplished without significant college credentials.

Oh, and listening to the radio while typing this. Felicity Huffman just posted bail, which strikes me as ironic.

Henry said...

Here's some additional details from the justice department:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/arrests-made-nationwide-college-admissions-scam-alleged-exam-cheating-athletic

Henry said...

Some of the parents are going to get hit with tax fraud:

Beginning around 2013, Singer allegedly agreed with certain clients to disguise bribe payments as charitable contributions to the KWF, thereby enabling clients to deduct the bribes from their federal income taxes.

Henry said...

That link above lists everyone who was charged.

The principals were charged with racketeering, money laundering, and fraud.

Most of the people receiving the bribes were charged with mail and wire fraud.

The parents were charged with conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud.

Henry said...

One thing that strikes me about the parents involved? They problem share a social network. Most of them are Californians and most of them are small company CEOs.

mccullough said...

sounds like Althouse still believes in “The Rule of Law.”

That is a concept the rich foist upon the middle class to keep them in line. Get them to follow the rules so the rich can do whatever the fuck they want.

When you have so many laws that are so unevenly enforced there is no rule of law. You can’t catch everybofy. But that’s far different than what the federal government does.

Good that people are waking up to this.

Universities are so full of shit and corrupt. So is the FBI and DOJ.





mccullough said...

A country that can’t enforce its borders isn’t a country. It’s a gas station restroom.

Hey Skipper said...

[Vault Dweller:] Weren't they successful as far as Union benefits go? I kind of remember the Obama administration carving out an exception for union benefits?

Yes, they were. SFAIK, union opposition sunk the Cadillac Tax completely.

They had no morally defensible position, but since they are unions, that doesn't matter.

But never mind that, the notion that the Cadillac Tax was defeated by rich people is nonsense.

Retail Lawyer said...

Ann, every time you refer to an NYT article you're not reading, a little part of me dies. Thanks for all the ones you do read, though. I just can't do it on my own.

Not Sure said...

Sure, fix things in college admissions that are rigged in favor of the rich

Which things? What would be the consequences of "fixing" specific aspects of "rigged" admissions?

People here keep talking about "worthier" applicants being denied their rightful place at Ye Olde Ivie by unworthy rich kids. But if "the rich" or legacies get a thumb (or more) on the admissions scale because daddy gave $5 mil to the endowment--which generates income of something like $350K per year--the Spoiled Rich Kid is basically paying for an extra faculty member in perpetuity. Add a few more SRK's to the freshman class and Ye Olde Ivie can build a new residence hall, and fund a few scholarships to boot. IOW, it's quite possible that a system that is "rigged" in such a way actually allows more non-affluent, promising scholars to attend a prestige college than one that is strictly meritocratic.

None of this is a defense of Huffman's infelicity, bc bribing a coach doesn't generate any of the benefits that a direct gift to the university does.

The Vault Dweller said...

This seems to me it is going to wind up being a case where the gravy train stops at a certain point, and the Super wealthy, or influential will get to stay on, but the very, very wealthy or influential are forced to get out.

Retail Lawyer said...

Ann, By the way, I just could not make it through more than a few minutes of the social media influencer who was to college to party, so thanks for that as well. You are tough, I'll give you that.

mccullough said...

One way to fix things is to confiscate all university endowments and to get rid of tax deductions to universities.

Sally327 said...

I think we're supposed to view these parents in the same way we view Jean Valjean, imprisoned for stealing bread to feed his sister's children. It's a crime of the heart. Which is B.S. of course because it wasn't stealing a loaf of bread to feed a hungry kid, it was cheating to get something the child apparently couldn't get otherwise and didn't need to have or possibly even want to have.

How poorly does one have to think of one's own child to resort to this kind of manipulation? To be so convinced that the kid isn't going to have decent enough grades / SAT scores to get into a good school, of which there are at least a hundred or so in this country. I mean, they couldn't get into UC San Diego or Santa Barbara or Davis? All perfectly fine schools. Which I think have preference for CA residents. And if the kid really couldn't qualify, how uncaring would you have to be to set them up in a situation where failure is a real possibility?

MayBee said...

None of this is a defense of Huffman's infelicity, bc bribing a coach doesn't generate any of the benefits that a direct gift to the university does.

thanks for wording that so well

mccullough said...

Althouse wants us to think of universities as anything other than what they are. Scams.

Not Sure said...

One way to fix things is to confiscate all university endowments and to get rid of tax deductions to universities.

If you want tuition to rise so high that only the spawn of the wealthy can afford an elite college, this is a good suggestion.

Leland said...

Further, the parents thought these accomplishments were necessary, when the parents were very accomplished without significant college credentials.

Rush Limbaugh just discussed this concept as well. He was successful without going to university.

DavidUW said...

My education at large state flagship public universities remains unsullied.

gahrie said...

Lori Laughlin spent $500,000 to get her daughters into USC. USC? Seriously?

I applied to USC in March of my senior year (1983) with a 2.5 GPA, and I got in.

Rick said...

How poorly does one have to think of one's own child to resort to this kind of manipulation?

I doubt the parents think like this. I suspect these parents don't value education as a contributor to success, which for "influencers" may be true. Do money making schemes based on image require formal education? Or do they merely require hooks which help maintain the image?

Maybe this is part of what offends Althouse.

Howard said...

Why does Drago hate Carnac the Magnificent?

James K said...

USC has gotten more selective, but still.... And not just $500,000, but $500,000 with a risk of criminal prosecution. I'd guess a $1,000,000 legal donation would have got the daughter in without that risk.

mccullough said...

College is for the rich.

Saddling people who can’t afford it with $1.5 trillion in collective debt has been a very bad idea.

College wasn’t anywhere near as expensive 50 years ago. The graduates now are no smarter.

If colleges want to charge $50,000 a year in tuition and another $12,000 in lodging, meals, and books, so be it. Then it is a luxury good.

Taxpayers shouldn’t subsidize luxury goods for the wealthy.

mccullough said...

I heard USC called University of Spoiled Children thirty years ago. It’s been a rich kid’s school for a long time.

William said...

This scandal will gain momentum. People resent the rich and well favored, and never more so than when they use their wealth and position to gain unfair advantages for themselves and their progeny. One advantage that they have is that no one in the bully pulpit will preach against them. These are the people with the megaphones. To me that just makes the hypocrisy and immorality more galling. I don't think people in show business and academia realize how damaged their brand is.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Why does Drago hate Carnac the Magnificent?”

Who knows or cares what he’s blabbering about.

mccullough said...

The universities resent that the bribes went to the coaches and not the endowments.

Admission slots are for sale. Always have been always will be.

The DOJ is there to do the bidding of the wealthy who bought their kids admission the time-honored way. The same people who the DOJ refused to prosecute after the financial meltdown.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Does Elizabeth Warren have to be brought up in every single thread?”

It’s not always me who brings her up. She’s usually brought up by people who consider her as guilty of fraud as these Varsity Blues parents.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“The rich will get their health treatment.”

And the rich don’t care if the poor or middle class get healthcare. The “rich” who own the private insurance industry. The rich who own Big Pharma. Why exclude these entities from the “rich”. Are they poor or middle class? Do they not have laws that protect them? Do they not have lobbyists that unduly influence our lawmakers?

Jim at said...

Eliminate affirmative action admissions at our universities and then I'll get worked up over this.

Michael K said...

?USC has gotten more selective, but still.... And not just $500,000, but $500,000 with a risk of criminal prosecution. I'd guess a $1,000,000 legal donation would have got the daughter in without that risk.

I dunno. I hear the SAT scores have been going up all the time. SC has gotten very left wing in recent years plus the football program has collapsed. It didn't used to be that hard to get in. Those kids must be awful dumb. Even the SAT has been dumbed down.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“People resent the rich and well favored, and never more so than when they use their wealth and position to gain unfair advantages for themselves and their progeny. One advantage that they have is that no one in the bully pulpit will preach against them. These are the people with the megaphones. To me that just makes the hypocrisy and immorality more galling.”

Indeed! Elizabeth Warren uses her bully pulpit to fight against this unfair advantage, yet she is demonized.

PJ57 said...

My son was rejected last year at USC, which was his first choice to study Applied Mathematics and Data Science. However, he was accepted at the University of Wisconsin -- Madison, where he is engaged in the same course of study. He seems perfectly content with this course of events and his life in the People's Republic of Madison, although this winter has been brutal in the Midwest. I have written to USC to ask for a refund of his application fee -- but I won't hold my breath. Meanwhile, if he gets in a bind, I have told him to contact Professor Emeritus Althouse -- I'm told she knows a few people who might help him.

Michael K said...

I applied to USC in March of my senior year (1983) with a 2.5 GPA, and I got in.

Yeah, my son was a slacker in HS but I think his SAT was good. He's doing pretty well as a trial lawyer but then lawyers just have to have the killer instinct.

Kidding ! I was kidding

Fernandinande said...

College is for the rich.

Costs just about doubled from 1985 to 2015 (inflation adjusted).

Similar to elementary schools. (chart not inflation adjusted: $3470 in 1985 = $7644 in 2015)

narciso said...

because she is a fraud, she did what singer actually did, misrepresenting ethnicity on her applocations, a sooner gal from Rutgers was going nowhere. but it is an interesting cross section with mcgashan, the very woke silicon valley investor, caplan the white shoe lawyer, et al,

Fernandinande said...

$3470 in 1985 = $7644 in 2015

Just to clarify, cost in 2015 was $12,224 vs $3470 in 1985, adjusted to $7,644 in 2015 dollars.

MayBee said...

And the rich don’t care if the poor or middle class get healthcare. The “rich” who own the private insurance industry. The rich who own Big Pharma. Why exclude these entities from the “rich”.

They don't care? Well...it's true. An entity doesn't really care. Do the rich people who designed the ACA "care" if the middle class can afford their health care under the system they designed?

hombre said...

How exciting that the DOJ after providing weapons to drug cartels, nixing Hillary’s email prosecution (per Lisa Page), investigating college coaches for violating NCAA rules and, of course, maintaining the interminable Trump witch-hunt, is now focusing on college admission practices!

The federal law enforcement establishment should be a source of pride for us all. (/Sarc.)

mccullough said...

Warren makes $400,000 a year teaching rich kids at Harvard Law.

She rails against the rich as a way to fool thoughtless progressives into thinking she is on their side. Most progressives haven’t fallen for a schtick.

Warren is wealthy and makes her money at a wealthy institution funded by the rich.

Only a fool would fall for her bullshit.

hombre said...

Inga, the AOC of Althouse commenters wrote: “Indeed! Elizabeth Warren uses her bully pulpit to fight against this unfair advantage, yet she is demonized.”

She is demonized for hypocrisy, Inga. She is one of the rich cheaters.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Only a fool would fall for her bullshit.”

Only a fool would say this Varsity Blues scandal is a nothingburger like you did. Only a fool would aid and abet the rich from taking unfair advantage, when they already have huge advantage.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“She is one of the rich cheaters.”

No she isn’t. Only a fool would think she is.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“She is one of the rich cheaters.”

Trump.

mccullough said...

Ferdinand,

Take the average debt now ($28,000) plus the interest in the difference between 1985 and now in real dollars.

That’s the cost difference for students who have to take loans in these two time periods.

Then go back to 1969, which is 50 years.

And then check the percentage of those who matriculated in 1969, 1985, and now as a percentage of the population.

Then calculate the growth in real dollars of university endowments among the three time periods.



mccullough said...

Trump didn’t pretend not to be a cheater.

He made fun of Warren’s Holier-than-Thou attitude.

Warren was a law school graduate and law school professor who lied about being a Cherokee to get ahead. She also took advantage of poorer people in flipping houses. That’s what they taught at Trump University. Warren is the valedictorian.

She lives in a million donald home with her second husband and is a millionaire. She makes $490,000 a year teaching rich kids.

And she’s so fucking stupid she released her DNA test showing she has no Indian blood. Her ancestors took the Indian land just like Warren took some Indian’s spot on the faculty at Ownn.

Harvard was happy to taught its Aryan Indian on the faculty.

Universities are corrupt and full of shit just like Warren.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“She is one of the rich cheaters.”

Trump says he feels bad for Manafort who was convicted and sentenced for defrauding the American people among other entities.
If you people are concerned with hypocrisy, I suggest that you look in your own back yard and who you are supporting.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Trump didn’t pretend not to be a cheater. “

Oh please. Don’t be such a dupe. He lies, he lied. He’s doing everything in his power to not take responsibility for his frauds.

hombre said...

Blogger Inga...Allie Oop said...
‘“She is one of the rich cheaters.”

No she isn’t. Only a fool would think she is.’

Her wealth is a matter of public record. There is also, of course, the thoroughly documented, indisputable example of using fake native heritage to gain unwarranted advantages - among other cheats. But what is “documented and indisputable” in the face of the wishful thinking of a lefty loon like Inga?

Michael said...

Inga
"The “rich” who own the private insurance industry. The rich who own Big Pharma. Why exclude these entities from the “rich”. Are they poor or middle class? Do they not have laws that protect them? Do they not have lobbyists that unduly influence our lawmakers?"

You ninny these companies are publicly owned. You doubtless own shares in your retirement account or in fund investments. Are you taking dumb lessons fromAOC or giving then. Really thick you are.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-scammed-cash-strapped-investors-with-false-promises-lawsuit-says-2018-10-29

“President Donald Trump and his children made millions as they swindled working-class, aspiring entrepreneurs with the promise of lucrative business deals, according to a new lawsuit.

The class action lawsuit filed Monday alleges there was a simple goal behind the complex con – enrichment “by systematically defrauding economically marginalized people looking to invest in their educations, start their own business, and pursue the American Dream.”

Trump recruited prospective investors by telling them about a “great opportunity” at ACN, a multi-level marketing company, the lawsuit states. Trump told the would-be investors that he’d done his own research and wasn’t endorsing the company for any money, court papers say.“

Inga...Allie Oop said...

https://www.axios.com/michael-cohen-hearing-trump-organization-executives-119c11fc-e84e-4796-8e07-da631e140f3e.html

“Near the end of Michael Cohen's testimony yesterday, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez asked the former fixer whether President Trump had ever run an insurance fraud. Cohen said yes, naming three Trump Organization executives: Allen Weisselberg, Ron Lieberman and Matthew Calamari.

This organization has never had a proctology exam like it's about to get," Bloomberg's Timothy O'Brien told me shortly after watching Cohen's testimony. "It's going to surface records. That's going to become problematic for all of them to keep their stories straight."

O'Brien is in a good position to know. In 2006, Trump tried — and failed — to sue O'Brien for $5 billion for writing that Trump had a much lower net worth than he claimed.

In the course of that litigation, because Trump went after O'Brien on financial grounds, O'Brien got his tax returns and financial records.”

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Trump Foundation to shut down under agreement with New York attorney general”

President Donald Trump's personal charity will shut down and disperse whatever funds it still has under a new agreement announced Tuesday by New York Attorney General Barbara Underwood.

The attorney general’s office sued the Trump Foundation in June, alleging the president and several of his children used it for their personal and political benefit. That lawsuit, which seeks millions of dollars in restitution, will continue, even as the foundation agrees to cease existence.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/18/trump-foundation-to-shut-down-1067924

Inga...Allie Oop said...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-inauguration-spending-under-criminal-investigation-by-federal-prosecutors-11544736455

“Trump Inauguration Spending Under Criminal Investigation by Federal Prosecutors
Probe looking into whether committee misspent funds and top donors gave money in exchange for access to the administration”

Howard said...

Yeah Inga. Lotta state crimes possible

mccullough said...

How much did Warren make flipping houses?

Trump University Valedictorian. Taking advantage of the poor and uneducated. When other people do it Sarren calls it Exploitation.

Lying to get jobs intended for Native Americans.

And Harvard University Faculty. Making $400,000 a year teaching Rich Kids.

Some people can’t handle the truth.


Inga...Allie Oop said...

“This month, two incredible investigative stories have given us an opportunity to lift the hood of the Trump Organization, look inside, and begin to understand what the business of this unusual company actually is. It is not a happy picture. The Times published a remarkable report, on October 2nd, that showed that much of the profit the Trump Organization made came not from successful real-estate investment but from defrauding state and federal governments through tax fraud. This week, ProPublica and WNYC co-published a stunning story and a “Trump, Inc.” podcast that can be seen as the international companion to the Times piece. They show that many of the Trump Organization’s international deals also bore the hallmarks of financial fraud, including money laundering, deceptive borrowing, outright lying to investors, and other potential crimes.

The reporters—Heather Vogell and Peter Elkind of ProPublica, and Andrea Bernstein and Meg Cramer of WNYC—identified a similar pattern that occurred in deals around the world .The basic scheme worked like this: some local developer in Panama, the Dominican Republic, Florida, Canada, or some other location pays Trump, up front, for the use of his name and agrees to pay him a cut of every sale—not only of units but of things like hotel-room minibar items or, even, bathrobes. These projects typically require sixty per cent or more of units to be sold before construction gets under way. The same set of problems occurred in multiple projects. Many of the early units would be sold to shadow buyers—hidden behind shell companies. Donald Trump or, often, Ivanka Trump would deceive future investors by telling them that a much higher percentage of units had been sold than was factual. More investors pour money in, getting enough money into the project, often, to begin construction. Eventually, the project fails and goes bankrupt. Many of those investors lose all of their money. But the Trumps do not. They got paid up front and are paid continuously throughout until the day the project collapses. They are paid for their name and for overseeing the project, and, if the building is opened, the Trumps manage the property day to day, in exchange for hefty fees.”

https://www.newyorker.com/news/swamp-chronicles/is-fraud-part-of-the-trump-organizations-business-model

Howard said...

BREAKING NEWS FLASH. Fake Melania selling Rub & Tugs to Chinese Spys @ Maura Lago

Inga...Allie Oop said...

So, when you point the finger at Warren for fraud regarding her claims of Native American Ancestry, compare and contrast your hero, The Fraudster in Chief.

You people are dupes.

Michael K said...

Idiot thread.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Idiot thread.”

Idiots don’t like the proof being shoved in their face.

Rosalyn C. said...

I find a little absurd the idea that "poor" people are better than "rich" people or vice versa. The Democrat politician who is fighting for the underdog while enriching him/herself at the same trough as the rich (i.e., the trough=the US taxpayer), without having to go through the dirty business of actually building anything, is not my idea of heroic.

mccullough said...

Trump’s not my hero.

He’s corrupt and a liar. Just like Clinton, W, Obama, Romney, Warren, Pelosi, McCconnel, Feinstein, etc.

Trump University was a scam just like all Universities.

But Trump is funny. It’s all bullshit to him. He doesn’t even pretend much and when he pretends he’s got the knowing wink and nod.

It’s great entertainment. It’s like watching sports.

Trump plays a game only he knows the rules to and he changes those rules constantly.

And it makes all the other corrupt phonies mad. They lash out like fools.

They pretend they are virtuous when they are fucking crooks. And there fools who falll for it. Who are denial about what pieces of shut all of them are.

Warren is every bit the scum that Trump is. But Trump plays her.

This is better than a Kurosawa movie.





Inga...Allie Oop said...

“But Trump is funny. It’s all bullshit to him. He doesn’t even pretend much and when he pretends he’s got the knowing wink and nod.

It’s great entertainment. It’s like watching sports.

Trump plays a game only he knows the rules to and he changes those rules constantly.”

So some want a show biz President , no matter how crooked he is. What does that say about his supporters?

mccullough said...

Obama was a showbusiness President.

His daughter worked for Harvey Weinstein in her “GAO year.”

Netflix is paying him $50 million to consult on projects, which is a eupehemism for paying him to push through net neutrality.

Eventually Obana will have a star on the Hollywood walk of fame as a producer or other such bullshit title.

And on Obama’s epitaph it will read:

“Donald Trump will never be President of the United States”

mccullough said...

The Clintons are with over $100 million.

As are Pelosi, Feinstein, and McConnell.

But some people need to believe in a fiction that they know is a fiction. And they believe in it willingly.

Rosalyn C. said...

Some of Trump's supporters are people who apprehend when Shakespeare said, The world is a stage, etc. And understand what is meant in the Veda that everything in creation is Maya, i.e., illusion.

The only thing that really matters is that Trump is trying to do the best for the USA and its citizens. He really is not doing it to make more money on his hotels and golf courses. People who claim that are being ridiculous.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

The only thing that really matters is that Trump is trying to do the best for the USA and its citizens.”

Is he??

Michael said...

Inga
The highlighted bit you posted is the way all condo and condo hotel projects are sold and financed. The New Yorker writers throw in some conjecture about unsavory and/or illegal practices which are conjecture only. What the authors fail to note is that these are franchised deals in which Trump licenses his name and enters into a management contract for the operation of the hotel or residence. They do not note, intentionally or through ignorance, that Trump is not the actual developer or owner. That would be the licensee. These are common practices which the authors excitedly believe they have discovered Pitiful journalistic effort.

Lurker21 said...

Not Sure said...

Add a few more SRK's to the freshman class and Ye Olde Ivie can build a new residence hall, and fund a few scholarships to boot. IOW, it's quite possible that a system that is "rigged" in such a way actually allows more non-affluent, promising scholars to attend a prestige college than one that is strictly meritocratic.


That is interesting and certainly a unique way of looking at things. I think you take it a bit too far in saying that spoiled rich kids' parents' large donations make it easier for more less advantaged students to attend than is strictly meritocratic. Large parts of the middle class get priced out of prestige colleges and don't qualify for much aid. Colleges give financial aid to those they want for diversity reasons and those with very low family incomes. More qualified students from other groups don't get aid and aren't even accepted. They get squeezed out between the rich and the poor students, groups that are both accepted with lower test scores. Not exactly meritocratic.

Rosalyn C. said...

Yeah, Inga, he is. No one claims he is a perfect person, but yeah, he is.

buwaya said...

The other way to look at this is that on a macro-economic level universities and much of K-12 amount to the opposite of an investment, beyond a rather low point - they are consumption. They are about the same as spending on tourism or hobbies, or perhaps worse, as they are less of a driver for the development of "commons" infrastructure.

From a state/society point of view there is no good reason to pay for education. Global experience over the last hundred years pretty much bears that out. Education follows economic development, it doesn't create it or do much to improve productivity beyond a certain point.

From an individuals point of view a college degree has a competitive value, as a status signal, but that is only because many other possible status signals available to employers are blocked by regulatory or legal or cultural constraints. All of these constraints are irrational and ultimately extremely inefficient.

So if a university education, of the sort that rich people purchase as expensive status signals for their otherwise uncompetitive children, has no effect on the general economy, then who cares what they do. They can purchase large homes, the services of a staff of servants, expensive clothes, expensive cars or any other sort of luxurious status display. None of that is illegal.

If that sort of education is nearly pure consumption, then it should be reasonable to, say, simply auction these university slots.

The only reason this sort of thing is considered illicit is a misunderstanding by the public of the nature of education, and the open hypocrisy of the education industry. There are crimes here because the illusion must be maintained.

Rick said...

Inga...Allie Oop said...
I suggest that you look in your own back yard and who you are supporting.


Inga demands a policy she never follows herself. Shocking.

buwaya said...

There is no greater instance of a mass illusion, in the US, than the public perception of education.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“The highlighted bit you posted is the way all condo and condo hotel projects are sold and financed. The New Yorker writers throw in some conjecture about unsavory and/or illegal practices which are conjecture only.”

So when rich developers commit fraud it’s ok, just like when the rich buy their dumb kid admittance to an elite university.

“Oh they all do it, it’s nothing” mentality.

Eleanor said...

If we're hung up on having diversity in the college population, then kids who have parents willing to cheat to get them in is just another representative group.

mccullough said...

Buwaya,

Well stated.

Jim at said...

The Queen of Fake Cherokee Cult has taken over the thread.

Moving on ....

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

How can two things BOTH be abhorrent?

mccullough said...

Universities are full of cheaters.

Martin Luther King plagiarized his disseratation.

Fools still call refer to him as “Dr.” Martin Luther King, Jr.

mccullough said...

Obama wrote “Dreams from my Father” for his Harvard Law School writing requirement.

Book is chock full of lies.

When is Harvard Law going to revoke Obama’s degree for cheating?

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“The Queen of Fake Cherokee Cult has taken over the thread.

Moving on ....”

Sorry you can’t keep up. Bye.

Michael said...

Inga
"So when rich developers commit fraud it’s ok, just like when the rich buy their dumb kid admittance to an elite university."

Er, no. Trump is not the developer. He is the licensor. The developer/owner is the licensee. The authors suggest fraud by saying that the sponsor is overstating the number of sales,but go on to say that the money "pours in." Typically there are reservations for units which are not the same as hard contracts. Using scary concepts like "shell corporations" is simply journalistic ignorance disguised as insight into a shadowy world of the ugly businessman tarted up with scary phrases.

As to "dumb kids" I would guess that most of them would be smart enough to survive any of the "elite" institutions their parents smuggled them into. The hard part is getting in these schools, not getting out.

Michael K said...

a college degree has a competitive value, as a status signal,

IQ test to avoid Duke Power.

Michael said...

Inga
Put it another way. If you want to build a Marriott hotel and have it managed by Marriott then Marriott will charge you a fee up front to secure the name and will present you with a management contract that cannot be broken for twenty years 9at a minimum). If you over finance the property and lose it to the bank Marriott will continue to manage the property and will be paid based on gross revenues, including the mini-bar, parking, bathrobes, food and beverage sales, telephone use, the lot. Even if all of your investors in the project lose their equity Marriott will soldier on collecting their fees. So you lose but Marriott wins. That is the system the New Yorkers think they have uncovered with Trump. Funny.

Michael said...

Inga
PS. Same system for InterContinental Hotels,Hilton, Four Seasons et al

Inga...Allie Oop said...

SINCE DONALD TRUMP’S FORTUNES came surging back with the success of “The Apprentice” 14 years ago, his deals have often been scrutinized for the large number of his partners who have ventured to the very edges of the law, and sometimes beyond. Those associates have included accused money launderers, alleged funders of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard and a felon who slashed someone in the face with a broken margarita glass.

Trump and his company have typically countered by saying they were merely licensing his name on these real estate projects in exchange for a fee. They weren’t the developers or in any way responsible.

But an eight-month investigation by ProPublica and WNYC reveals that the post-millennium Trump business model is different from what has been previously reported. The Trumps were typically way more than mere licensors or bystanders in their often-troubled deals. They were deeply involved in these projects. They helped mislead investors and buyers — and they profited handsomely from it.

Patterns of deceptive practices occurred in a dozen deals across the globe, as the business expanded into international projects, and the Trumps often participated. One common pattern, visible in more than half of those transactions, was a tendency to misstate key sales numbers.


It’s time Trump and his supporters faced the truth.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Trump left multiple observers with the impression that he had an equity stake in the deal. “He said the Trump organization does have a financial interest in the project but he would not disclose the amount,” reported a newsletter circulated to clients and associates, alerting them to news and investment opportunities, by the Panamanian law firm Mossack Fonseca, which would later become publicly known for sheltering wealth in offshore accounts.

Marketing materials for the Panama project also implied that Trump was functioning as a developer. “I am honored to develop this extraordinary high rise with my partner Roger Khafif of the K Group,” Trump was quoted as saying in one promotional statement. Buyers believed the Trumps and their company were functioning as the project’s developers, in partnership with Khafif, according to a lawsuit later filed by dozens of buyers.

But Trump did not have a penny of equity in the development, according to records of the bond sale and bankruptcy. Nor was he the actual developer, as the Trump Organization’s own statement confirmed.”

Inga...Allie Oop said...

That’s fraud.

Rick said...

Inga...Allie Oop said...It’s time Trump and his supporters faced the truth.

It must be embarrassing someone so fundamentally incompetent is running the country so much better than Dems. What the fuck is wrong with those numbnuts?

Michael said...

Inga

What does it mean to be "deeply involved in these projects?" They misled investors how? Buyers how?

"often participated" means what?

What is this "tendency" to misstate key sales numbers? Actual sales? Closed sales? Reservations? This article is a piece of work, Inga, bad work by people who are not sure of what they are writing about. This is innuendo bordering on slander without the slightest bit of specificity.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“It must be embarrassing someone so fundamentally incompetent is running the country so much better than Dems.”

Sez you.

Rick said...

The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports 6.8 percent unemployment rate for black workers in December, the lowest in the 45 years the data has been tracked.

Unemployment overall was 4.1 percent.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/05/black-unemployment-rate-falls-to-record-low.html

I get it though, you don't care. Nor does anyone expect you to.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“President Donald Trump, his three eldest children and his company are accused in a class action lawsuit filed Monday in Manhattan federal court of using their brand to make millions by coaxing unsophisticated investors to participate in fraudulent schemes.

Filed on behalf of four anonymous individuals, the lawsuit accuses the President and his children Eric, Donald Jr. and Ivanka Trump of promoting what they described as promising business opportunities with three companies in exchange for "secret" payments: ACN Opportunity, a telecommunications marketing company; the Trump Network, a vitamin and health product marketing company; and the Trump Institute, a seminar program that "purported to sell Trump's 'secrets to success.'”

The suit claims that the Trumps in fact "deliberately misled" consumers about the likely success of their investments. The 160-page lawsuit further claims the Trumps engaged in "a pattern of racketeering activity" and "were aware that the vast majority of consumers would lose whatever money they invested in the business opportunities and training programs" offered by the three companies. None of the three companies is named as a defendant.

Trump has faced similar allegations of fraud before, most notably in three lawsuits brought against Trump University, his now-defunct real estate seminar that purported to reveal his business secrets to students. Trump agreed to settle those lawsuits, which alleged the program featured false advertisements and never delivered on its claims, for $25 million just days after the 2016 presidential election.
The new lawsuit filed Monday contends that, as in the Trump University case, the Trump brand and the apparent endorsement from Trump himself were critical in luring unsuspecting investors to the sham companies he promoted.
"Indeed, for the working people who fell prey to the Investments, the Trump endorsement was typically the first thing they learned about the Investments, the reason they took an interest, and the determining factor in their decision to invest," the lawsuit says.“

Not Sure said...

I was curious to know how much Harvard would actually cost a middle-class family, so I used this handy calculator.

I entered data for a student from WI in a 4-person family with 1 college kid, a $100,000 income and $10,000 in assets other than a house. Total cost to the family? $9,600 a year including room and board and estimated expenses.

I don't know about State U. or Yale, but Harvard sure as hell isn't operating off the money it extracts from middle-class families.

Rick said...

but Harvard sure as hell isn't operating off the money it extracts from middle-class families.

This fraud is about acceptance not tuition. The middle class is hurt as much as the poor by rejections because they also lack the funds to bribe the relevant people.

Not Sure said...

@Rick, see my comment @12:55

narciso said...

well ok then:


https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/03/bad-omen-for-dems-2020-florida-hopes-pro-trump-gov-desantis-approval-rating-soars/

Rick said...

see my comment @12:55

You'll have to explain how Harvard not making money from middle class is relevant to that comment.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Not having read your Tolkien, allows much more for not seeing that forest there in front of you.

The forest is crying "Trump 2020" enchantingly. Even to the young filled with cuntshit assholes in University majoring in not getting pussy but becoming a pussy.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Just like the BLack man John McCain racisted out of a spot at the Academy, the surprise is everyone hadn't known all along (ala Yoakam) these cheaters cheat and lie and steal so they can get a bigger kick out of stepping on the throats of normal folks just trying to get by without being cheated.

Lurker21 said...

People are asking why this is a matter for law enforcement and the courts, and how is this different from what rich people always do.

But why are they asking that now? Why is everybody talking about the other, unprosecutable scandals in college admissions?

Because the feds went after this case. In a strange way, if you think the other, non-prosecutable ways of getting in through the back door are wrong, this case gives you an audience, a forum and a moment.

So there was a certain logic to it all, even for those who question why the government has gotten involved in what they think is just another way of influence peddling.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Pussy becomes me, her, us, everyone.

Sebastian said...

"They're accused of crimes"

It's not what criminal that's the problem, it's what's legal.

Rampant discrimination, in favor of athletes, legacies, and POC.

Guildofcannonballs said...

History has proven there were millions of women more capable than John McCain of operating a single aircraft, or anything else not political and hence able to be manipulated like Cindy's daddy's ideals were once Nancy said John was a piece of shit.

Pillage Idiot said...

Inga foolishly thinks Warren got her position at Harvard Law School based on merit.

Warren's undergraduate degree is from the University of Houston. Her JD is from Rutgers Law School.

Harvard Law School posts the profiles of all 131 members of the full-time faculty. I have never seen another professor there with a educational pedigree as lackluster as Warren's.

However, I have only met a few of the professors and have certainly not read the profiles of all members of the current faculty.

Inga, please post in the comments any member you think is less distinguished than Warren.

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